General election

Quoted from Grim74

Gibraltar will not leave the UK the mass majority want to stay as part of the UK and now that they have seen how the EU dictatorship wanted to stitch them up the majority would now vote to leave the corrupt union as well.
The democratic majority of Scotland and Northern Ireland still want to remain as part of the UK any talk of Scottish independence when they want to be controlled by Brussels is just moronic.

But the very fact we even have to discuss this is because of the Conservative and Unionist Party, not Jeremy Corbyn. If the UK breaks up, it will be 100% because of Brexit.

And if the Scottish want to be ruled by Brussels, who could honestly blame them? They've been copulated over by the English (and the Tories) for decades.

Quoted from Grim74

Gibraltar will not leave the UK the mass majority want to stay as part of the UK and now that they have seen how the EU dictatorship wanted to stitch them up the majority would now vote to leave the corrupt union as well.

How did you work that out? Gibraltar was 96% remain. That's a pretty significant swing.

Quoted from Manchester Mariner

How did you work that out? Gibraltar was 96% remain. That's a pretty significant swing.

Talking to expats, there is now a widespread feeling of betrayal by the EU, not exactly scientific I know but just like here pre Brexit, if you was to ignore all the mainstream media, Gov propaganda and the dodgy polls,outside London there was a strong feeling people were going to vote in favour of Brexit.

Quoted from Dan

And if the Scottish want to be ruled by Brussels, who could honestly blame them? They've been copulated over by the English (and the Tories) for decades.

What!! with the flawed Barnett formula?

Quoted from Grim74

No warnings eh?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....tabase-released.html

I beg to differ voice of doom, how can you be sovereign when you are controlled and dictated to by Brussels, how can you be sovereign when you can't even control your borders? I would go further in my view we are not even a Country anymore just a bit part state of a corrupt union, well hopefully we will be getting it back.

You'll have to be more precise about the claims of profligacy, I'm afraid. The link of files from the Tortygraph contains 50-odd documents and the only mention from a quick scan is about cabinet profligacy - i.e. cabinet members spending too much on cars and expenses and the like. Probably tens of millions at stake here, not tens of billions, so not even a drop in the ocean in the bigger picture. In the era where almost everybody regardless of party (though not Corbyn, of course  ) was scamming the system, this isn't too surprising. John 'Two Jags' Prescott, for example.

I can pretty much guarantee that there was no warning about the bigger picture, not least because the government wasn't massively overspending as you still seem to thing for some bizarre reason. Think sensibly - if there really had been some sort of warning about the amounts being spent by the government, the Torygraph would have shouted it out from the rooftops when it got its grubby mitts on these documents back in 2011! In other words, nothing to see here - move on.

As for your second point, we weren't in any way controlled and dictated to by the EU. We'd agreed to abide by certain rules and regulations which we'd helped to write and could have vetoed at any point as they were written and the fact remains that the vast majority of these regulations will be duplicated pretty much as they stand when we exit the EU.

Seems a bit harsh to call the UK a corrupt union, but I suppose you're probably not too far wrong...  

Quoted from Grim74

Talking to expats, there is now a widespread feeling of betrayal by the EU, not exactly scientific I know but just like here pre Brexit, if you was to ignore all the mainstream media, Gov propaganda and the dodgy polls,outside London there was a strong feeling people were going to vote in favour of Brexit.

Definitely not scientific, nor convincing that Gibraltar has swung from last year being 96% in favour of remain to being in favour of Leave now.

Quoted from Grim74

Gibraltar will not leave the UK the mass majority want to stay as part of the UK and now that they have seen how the EU dictatorship wanted to stitch them up the majority would now vote to leave the corrupt union as well.
The democratic majority of Scotland and Northern Ireland still want to remain as part of the UK any talk of Scottish independence when they want to be controlled by Brussels is just moronic.

My partner lived in Gibraltar for ten years with her husband before he died. A prevalent view held by people who have actually experienced life there is that the Gibraltarians can be guilty of wanting their cake and eating it. They want to be part of the U.K. but they also love having the benefits of being able to cross the border with Spain at will. The vast majority of their luxury goods come through the land border with Spain. The huge vote to Remain was fuelled by people who wanted the status quo to be maintained. Coming out of the E.U. will damage beyond repair that cosy relationship because logistically we will not be able to provide them with the goods etc. that they can get currently. It is perfectly possible that the Spanish will consider some sort of border control once Brexit happens. On that basis I doubt that if the Referendum was re-run there would be any change of note in the perecentages voting in/out. It actually amazes me how the tide of opinion has swung round in favour of the Gibraltarians. After the referendum result was announced there were more than a few Brexiteers gloating about the fact 96% didn't get their hoped for outcome.

Quoted from Grim74

Talking to expats, there is now a widespread feeling of betrayal by the EU, not exactly scientific I know but just like here pre Brexit, if you was to ignore all the mainstream media, Gov propaganda and the dodgy polls,outside London there was a strong feeling people were going to vote in favour of Brexit.

Genuine question and in the interests of debate could you expand on where this widespread feeling of betrayal has come from?

Quoted from Maringer

You'll have to be more precise about the claims of profligacy, I'm afraid. The link of files from the Tortygraph contains 50-odd documents and the only mention from a quick scan is about cabinet profligacy - i.e. cabinet members spending too much on cars and expenses and the like. Probably tens of millions at stake here, not tens of billions, so not even a drop in the ocean in the bigger picture. In the era where almost everybody regardless of party (though not Corbyn, of course  ) was scamming the system, this isn't too surprising. John 'Two Jags' Prescott, for example.

I can pretty much guarantee that there was no warning about the bigger picture, not least because the government wasn't massively overspending as you still seem to thing for some bizarre reason. Think sensibly - if there really had been some sort of warning about the amounts being spent by the government, the Torygraph would have shouted it out from the rooftops when it got its grubby mitts on these documents back in 2011! In other words, nothing to see here - move on.

As for your second point, we weren't in any way controlled and dictated to by the EU. We'd agreed to abide by certain rules and regulations which we'd helped to write and could have vetoed at any point as they were written and the fact remains that the vast majority of these regulations will be duplicated pretty much as they stand when we exit the EU.

Seems a bit harsh to call the UK a corrupt union, but I suppose you're probably not too far wrong...  

You couldn't be bothered to read the spending review then, anyway it's just the telegraph and not the Guardian😕 Even in the Big Short film the first warning reports of the imminent sub-prime disaster came in early 2007, you would of thought soon to be adviser to JP Morgan Tony Blair would have picked up theses warning and have his government put safeguards in place. At least he admitted is party should of taken a tougher fiscal position than they did.

In Blairs autobiography -  A Journey, (2010 I think) he says  "The economic crisis should have been (and indeed still can be) the moment when, instead of lazily succumbing to the idea that more state spending dressed up as fiscal stimulus is the sole answer, we took the opportunity to accelerate and sharpen reform".

Just one other thing you mentioned  the PFI debacle earlier would youn not count this then as an overspend? Just a mere amount of billions more off the balance sheet I suppose. I'm sure you don't mind my children and my children's children paying for These labour vanity projects for years to come.

Anyway nice to see what we would be getting under comrade Corbyrn as his policy's start to become clear, yay! a tax hit for everyone, especially those earning over £70000!! God how they hate aspiration.

And I'm sure as the anti Brit that you are, you will be in full agreement with them by putting the EU workers first in this Country by securing their rights,well before any deal takes place for your fellow countrymen..

Quoted from barralad

Genuine question and in the interests of debate could you expand on where this widespread feeling of betrayal has come from?

Family member who was based there for a number of years still in contact with friends over there, out of interest internet ex pat forums and radio station phone ins I visited at the time during the Spanish veto news, I also recently read an article in the Olive Press that quoted some gibraltarians as now quoting the EU as revulsion