General election

Quoted from Maringer

The figures for Murphy's run down of statistics are those published by the OBR. Yes, official government statistics so I'm not quite so sure why you doubt them. I think he even provides a link where you can download them yourself to check if you're in doubt.

The Tories have traditionally borrowed more and repaid less, it's as simple as that. The fact that they've somehow gained a reputation for fiscal rectitude is baffling until you consider how much of the media they've had lying for them over the years. The Tories have borrowed more in more years (though they've been in power longer as well) and repaid much, much less during these additional years in power.

And that paints a better picture than the actual reality. Let's not forget that the bulk of the North Sea Oil receipts came in the Thatcher/Major years when they repaid almost nothing and borrowed much more:

http://www.newstatesman.com/po.....ain%E2%80%99s-future

All the while privatising various national assets, of course. Just what happened to all that money, I wonder? Did it end up in the pockets of the wealthy from ongoing tax cuts? Yep.

In comparison, the Norwegians invested their oil receipts in a sovereign wealth fund the value of which is forecast to reach $1 trillion by 2020 and the profits of which are invested back into their country. I don't think most people realise to this day just how badly the Tories shafted the country in the eighties.

Anyway, Murphy's figures are calculated in 2014 prices so all borrowing by the Labour government during the financial crisis and its immediate aftermath is included in the figures. Don't forget that the Coalition/Tories have continued to borrow hugely since then as well. Murphy gives a clear rundown of amount borrowed in original and 2014 prices so I'm not quite sure how you can argue against this.

I've absolutely no idea what you're talking about when you mention the post-war years. Clement Atlee was Labour Prime Minister from 1945 to 1951 and this is why the Welfare state and NHS came into existence, not to mention the benefits which came from nationalising of various major industries (since dismantled and sold off on the cheap, mostly during the 1980s).

However, I'm actually pleased you mentioned the post-war years. At the end of the war, the UK's debt/GDP ratio was almost 250% (as opposed to the current 90 percent or so), so can you imagine what the intellectual pygmies of the current Conservative Party would have done faced with this figure? Thankfully, back then there was an awareness that you can't cut your way out of a difficult situation such as this and despite all the wonderful policies enacted by the post-war Labour government (creation of the NHS, Welfare state etc etc) the debt was still reduced to 150% of GDP and falling by the early 1950s due to growth. And the subsequent Conservative and Labour governments continued with this post-war consensus which saw things improve further with debt falling below 50% in the 1970s. It was only with Thatcher that the Tories really lost their marbles and really started to screw the country over.

In comparison to the post-war years, in 2010 the Tories inherited a large deficit following the financial crisis buy growth was over 2% until they immediately began swingeing cuts which would have sent us back into recession if they hadn't quietly eased off whilst still blaming Labour largesse for their own problems. No wonder at all that they still won't be clearing the deficit until after 2020 (if then, given the likely impact of Brexit on our economy) when they originally promised to do so by 2015. A pity there is no real way to calculate how much lower the deficit would have been had we seen 2+% growth continue from 2010 until the present.

As for Labour plans to invest, at present there is such demand from investors to safely stow their money for minimal returns that long-term gilts (30 years or more) are effectively returning negative interest rates - the government could borrow billions to invest in the economy at no effective cost whatsoever and there is little doubt that such investment would more than pay for itself in the longer term. Just think what a couple of hundred billion invested in house building could do to resolve much of the housing crisis we're currently experiencing? Not that we've got enough skilled builders to do the work if such an investment was to be made - we'd have to get skilled immigrants to come and build our houses! We've long under-invested in infrastructure, education and training in comparison to our European and World neighbours/competitors as well as exporting all our manufacturing and heavy industry so it's no surprise that we're now ending up with a low-wage basketcase of an economy.

Quoted from Grim74

I'm not denying the statistics but it is an unfair comparison as the full facts site concludes.

How you feel the need to criticise the Thatcher/Major years is beyond me, Thatcher restarted a U.K. That had stopped! Were body's where not even being buried, hospitals closed and rubbish piled up, socialism in full swing, as for Major he handed over the Country in such strong shape that it took three successive Labour administrations to wreck it.

Clement Attlee was only in power for 5/6 years and in that time he will be remembered mostly for starving his people after the war had finished with unnecessary rationing, but don't worry the elites didn't go short. The Conservatives were in power for most of the post war rebuilding period when things rapidly returned to normal as Capitalism took over.

As for Corbyrns master plan to spend 500 billion ( figure plucked from the sky) rebuilding program, the one flaw that sticks out like Dianne Abbotts fat bottom is the fact he wants to have unlimited open door immigration, not to mention the green light to the refugees/migrants we would be swamped in no time, but hey should be able to get a cheap plumber.

Quoted from Grim74

I'm not denying the statistics but it is an unfair comparison as the full facts site concludes.

How you feel the need to criticise the Thatcher/Major years is beyond me, Thatcher restarted a U.K. That had stopped! Were body's where not even being buried, hospitals closed and rubbish piled up, socialism in full swing, as for Major he handed over the Country in such strong shape that it took three successive Labour administrations to wreck it.

Clement Attlee was only in power for 5/6 years and in that time he will be remembered mostly for starving his people after the war had finished with unnecessary rationing, but don't worry the elites didn't go short. The Conservatives were in power for most of the post war rebuilding period when things rapidly returned to normal as Capitalism took over.

As for Corbyrns master plan to spend 500 billion ( figure plucked from the sky) rebuilding program, the one flaw that sticks out like Dianne Abbotts fat bottom is the fact he wants to have unlimited open door immigration, not to mention the green light to the refugees/migrants we would be swamped in no time, but hey should be able to get a cheap plumber.

Quoted from Grim74

I'm not denying the statistics but it is an unfair comparison as the full facts site concludes.

How you feel the need to criticise the Thatcher/Major years is beyond me, Thatcher restarted a U.K. That had stopped! Were body's where not even being buried, hospitals closed and rubbish piled up, socialism in full swing, as for Major he handed over the Country in such strong shape that it took three successive Labour administrations to wreck it.

Clement Attlee was only in power for 5/6 years and in that time he will be remembered mostly for starving his people after the war had finished with unnecessary rationing, but don't worry the elites didn't go short. The Conservatives were in power for most of the post war rebuilding period when things rapidly returned to normal as Capitalism took over.

As for Corbyrns master plan to spend 500 billion ( figure plucked from the sky) rebuilding program, the one flaw that sticks out like Dianne Abbotts fat bottom is the fact he wants to have unlimited open door immigration, not to mention the green light to the refugees/migrants we would be swamped in no time, but hey should be able to get a cheap plumber.

Quoted from Maringer

I think the thing that many don't realise is that many of the policies of the 'far-left' Corbyn wouldn't have been too much out of place in a Conservative Party manifesto from the mid-1970s when keeping to the ideals of the post-war consensus was still perceived as the correct way to operate by all major parties

It was Thatcher who changed all this and was the catalyst which led to the most serious problems we face today with housing and severe inequality.. Corbyn is fundamentally a moderate social democrat so it is particularly comical when he's accused of being a communist by those on the right.

Quoted from ginnywings

This is a point that i was going to make.

Can anyone tell me why Corbyn is a clown and someone you wouldn't trust to run the country? Is it merely because the right wing press tell you this, or do you have any actual evidence? It should be about party politics and policies, not personalities.