General election

I am not fanatical either way but will vote I come from a hardline socialist background. The costing mistakes made by labour were shambolic but you will note that I did not defend May/ Hammond who are at least as bad whereas you are quick to call your opposition incompetent. Abbot would have been sacked in many areas for her mistake. Manifestos are easier to write than deliver and I take a balanced view as opposed to defending everything my side does. I have been hit hard by Tory tax changes in the last few years and so I am not in love with them at all but Corbyn does not inspire any confidence in me at all. I don't blame him for promising so much as he has nothing to lose and again I am pragmatic although the fiscal studies review was not complimentary about either side. I will lose no sleep either way as in a 2 horse race I am not keen on either.

Oh, Abbott is certainly pretty hopeless, as I believe I mentioned. Don't think she'll be in her role later in the month, regardless of the outcome of the election.

The IFS, as noted in my earlier posts is OK to some degree, but doesn't pay attention to the macroeconomic outcomes. Their criticism of the Labour manifesto therefore ignores many of the benefits which would arise from increased investment - their costings simply don't take these into account so their criticism isn't as powerful an argument as you would be led to believe.

On the other hand, their criticism of the Tory agenda just noted that they didn't cost the damage to the economy that their immigration targets (which will be missed as usual) will cause and, with the cuts they plan, the quality of public services which continue to suffer while they still won't meet their deficit target. Their lack of macro analysis isn't an issue here so it's not really a balanced criticism. One holds more water than the other.

As others have pointed out, the Scandinavian economies show what can be achieved with a relatively high-tax, high-welfare economy so why wouldn't we want to make our country a better place to live?

The Human Development Index shows we're far from the worst place in the world to live:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

No. 19, which I suppose isn't too bad until you consider we reportedly have the world's 5th largest economy.

Countries with higher taxes, stronger welfare states, better education and the like such as the Scandinavian countries are ahead of us, and a long way ahead in some cases. I just can't see why we shouldn't aspire to do better for the majority of our populace when these countries have shown it is affordable.

Absolutely. Its a frigging poor excuse for a country as rich as ours (total GDP and GDP per capita) to have people using food banks. Meanwhile there seems to be a portion at the top end who don't know what 'enough' means.

We are coming up to the day when we have to put our cross for the person /party who we think do the best job for the country,

Although some will put their cross for who think will do the best job for them, Nothing wrong in that.

BUT

Thinking how many different governments over the years both Tory and LABOUR have let down you that are still living in Grimsby ,

How much investment has been put into the Town since I left in 1987 ?

I know there was very little before that even though we lost all or nearly all the fishing industry,

So voting  for  your selected party is important not that it has ever done much good in the past because what I have can see the town is getting more run down every time I come home,

Yes there are a few nice area's and you could not wish to meet a more friendly towns person than a Grimbarian or a Meggie,

In Suffolk its a different story is it because they vote Tory and they look after their own ? I don't know.

Before I left Grimsby their was a part time job going delivering cakes for a very small salary, the owner said he had over 100 people mostly professional people applying for the job,
I myself took a job when I was unemployed and received the sum of £5 for working 42 hours a week that was the amount I was better off working than on the dole,

So that's why I and so many others left the Town we love to find work elsewhere , why should we have to do that ?

The governments have a duty to invest in an area if it loses it main industry whether its fishing, mining or steel,

All governments have let Grimsby down and if they hadn't I would still be there and able to pop down to the Park and watch every Town game,

I know I am rabbiting on a bit but I would just like to let you know why this time I am voting Tory for the first time in my life, Things are good down here and they should be everywhere,

My thoughts are if Corbyn, Macdonald and Abbott are running the country they will bring the south down to the level of the neglected north,

Not bringing the neglected north up to the pampered south.

End of rant.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I know I am rabbiting on a bit but I would just like to let you know why this time I am voting Tory for the first time in my life, Things are good down here and they should be everywhere,

My thoughts are if Corbyn, Macdonald and Abbott are running the country they will bring the south down to the level of the neglected north,

Not bringing the neglected north up to the pampered south.

End of rant.

Pete, it's really very simple. Much of Suffolk is a wealthy area with lots of wealthy people (including no end who commute into London) which hasn't been badly hit by the collapse of a major industry over the past 40 years and hasn't been badly hit by austerity in the way that Grimsby, the North East, mining towns and the like have. The south isn't wealthy because of anything the Tories have done, but rather what the Tories haven't done there that they have elsewhere. Underinvestment in industry and society has been the biggest issue for decades and the Tories are more culpable for this even than New Labour, who at least tried to do something about helping the poorest out even if it wasn't enough. Since reversed under Cameron and May.

Your long and rambling rant indicates that you've become an "I'm alright Jack" sort but one who is bizarrely blaming the Labour Party for the things that Tory governments have done! When the Tories get in again (as they still seem likely to do because so many people who are resistant to the facts), things will get much, much worse for the Grimsby area, especially once the economy dives either as Brexit approaches or takes place. Quite how somebody who has reportedly voted Labour all of their life can look at May and her devious, lying incompetents (and yes, this doesn't mean that Abbott isn't excrement) and think they are the future is absolutely beyond me.

Maringer please tell me what the Labour party has ever done for Grimsby even when Blair and Brown had over 10 years in power,

I am not a I am all right Jack mate, if you read my post you would see I said things are good down here LIKE IT SHOULD BE EVERYWHERE.

AND

If I did not say that I meant to, short term memory getting worse I am afraid.

I suspect that anyone who has voted Labour all their life and is now voting Tory is because they've persuaded themselves that the Tory's will deliver a harder Brexit than Labour will and get rid of those immigrants.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I suspect that anyone who has voted Labour all their life and is now voting Tory is because they've persuaded themselves that the Tory's will deliver a harder Brexit than Labour will and get rid of those immigrants.

Not me mate I would let as many in that wanted to come,

As long as they had a job and a home to come to,

That should be the same for any Brit wanting to live abroad.

Sorry, Pete. My post was a bit rushed and I wouldn't have put the Jack stuff if I'd had chance to read through before posting. I often rephrase before I'm click the post button.

My point is that you can't compare a wealthy area of the country with a poor area. It is why one of the most disgusting things the Tories have attempted to do is move all the social care stuff onto councils and ultimately make them fund it from higher council tax. Wealthy areas have very few social issues so don't need to spend as much (though they are paradoxically capable of raising much more tax easily). The poorest areas need to spend more but don't have the ability to raise money as easily. Added into this, the IFS has shown that the poorest (i.e. not Tory) councils have faced much bigger cuts than wealthy (i.e. Tory) councils!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tory-council-cuts-hit-poor-9125979

What did New Labour do for Grimsby? Certainly a heck of lot more than the Tories did from 1979 to 1997 or 2010 to 2017. They introduced the minimum wage and tax credits to boost the incomes of the poorest. Sure Start schemes started up to help the children of low income families and these provided some great benefits for families across the country and certinaly in Grimsby as well.

Of course, over 350 Sure Start centres have closed since 2010:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/feb/02/sure-start-centres-300-closed-since-2010

This is why I find it incomprehensible that anybody could vote for the Tories because they consider New Labour didn't do enough for Grimsby. I'm in agreement that they didn't do enough for Grimsby or any other poor areas, but they actually did something - the frigging Tories have actively and deliberately planned to make things worse!

Quoted from grimsby pete

Maringer please tell me what the Labour party has ever done for Grimsby even when Blair and Brown had over 10 years in power,

I am not a I am all right Jack mate, if you read my post you would see I said things are good down here LIKE IT SHOULD BE EVERYWHERE.

AND

If I did not say that I meant to, short term memory getting worse I am afraid.

Labour under Blair introduced a decent homes scheme, where council housing suffering from 18 years of Tory neglect was refurbished.  My company along with others upgraded houses all over estates in both Grimsby and Cleethorpes, neglected schools were repaired and upgraded and hospital waiting lists were brought down to reasonable levels. I am no fan of Blair and his illegal wars which are still causing chaos but he did a lot of good as well, there was optimism and growth. We had the crash which somehow labour got the blame for but would have happened whoever was in power. Voting for the Tories will mean more austerity for the poor and middle classes and more money  for the already super rich