Finally justice for the hillsborough victims

[quote=746]Letter in the Guardian today along the lines of "bent coppers, Murdoch lies, Tory government...we've come a long way in 23 years"

The whole of the letters page in the Guardian is devoted to Hillsborough today, and it's well worth a butcher's if anyone cares to go onto their website.[/

The Guardian   intercourse off Jock your taking the urine no one reads that pile of left wing horse excrement.

Coreection grim74. . . No one in your social-circle, social class or level of education reads that left wing sh1t!

Quoted from jock dock tower

Letter in the Guardian today along the lines of "bent coppers, Murdoch lies, Tory government...we've come a long way in 23 years"

The whole of the letters page in the Guardian is devoted to Hillsborough today, and it's well worth a butcher's if anyone cares to go onto their website.

The Guardian? FFS Jock! Not fit to wrap me chips in son.

Quoted from Ipswin

The Guardian? FFS Jock! Not fit to wrap me chips in son.

Yeah, The Sun is more your style Ipswin. .   (I use the word 'style' in it's loosest possible sense)

Ipswin you come across as as a bitter greed inspired girl private, one of thatchers children where everything is about  cost, even you must believe the police should not change statements , lie and hide the truth, if faith in law is broken we will have anarchy you only at last years riots to see that

Glad to have sparked a bit of a debate, but think we've moved somewhat away from the original thread of accountability for Hillsborough. The letters are thought provoking, and certainly add to that debate.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

I think it's a big jump to blame football hooligans for those deaths. I'm completely with you in thinking it's moronic and pathetic and it's something I have no interest in. Blame them for football fans being treated poorly but to suggest they are responsible for 96 people dying isn't fair.

I said apportion some blame. the police, government, FA weren't to blame although i would put a large chunk of blame toward the FA but the incident has been built round trigger effects. It is a well and truly undeniable non argumentable fact that without the fences which were put up due to hooliganism no one would have died. I find it horrendous that over a period of time everyone is quick to jump on the blame the system bandwagon and god knows the behaviour of the system afterwards fell well well short of acceptable but if anyone begins to lay anything at the door of mindless idiots they are defended to the hilt.

Quoted from marinette

Thing is, Rodley, some people still haven't learnt.  The cages were put up as a result of football violence and the need for segregation and an attempt to stop people encroaching on the pitch.  The cages were taken down because 96 people died.  And yet three years ago, violence on a large scale still erupted between West Ham and Millwall fans (was it?).  Last season was the only year in my memory that we haven't seen a pitch invasion at the end of a season, and every year the authorities at BP have asked people NOT to invade the pitch.  And then of course you get p*ssed up idiots like that moron at BP on Saturday.  Every time I see something like that ... every single time... I remember my friend's description of being in the Leppings Lane end and screaming at a policewoman to open the gates.  The policewoman heard, but turned her back - why?  For fear of football violence, perhaps?  For fear of the 'usual' kind of pitch invasion?  What was the excuse for the police not letting more ambulances onto the pitch?  'The fans were fighting'.    

I think the issues surround the fact that it was a unique incident where decision making on the day fell far short of what would be reasonable. The argument would be why the authorities didnt hold their hands up and say we did this or that wrong. I suspect if  a wrong decision if it is made with the right intentions is laid on the table early on we wouldnt be discussing the incident today and families would have been able in some way to move on.. You say a police woman refused to open a gate. This could have been a robotic action toward a order she had been given. Not an established non desire to react. There would also have been a fear from that policewoman at that time if she opened the gate would she be responsible for a full on pitch violent incident.Was she in fear for her safety could she from there have recognized the full incident as it was with people dying, was she an unpaid special who was far far out of her depth. has she regretted not opening the gate every day since. The day was a tragedy and the cover up in many ways a tragedy in itself.

Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle

I said apportion some blame. the police, government, FA weren't to blame although i would put a large chunk of blame toward the FA but the incident has been built round trigger effects. It is a well and truly undeniable non argumentable fact that without the fences which were put up due to hooliganism no one would have died. I find it horrendous that over a period of time everyone is quick to jump on the blame the system bandwagon and god knows the behaviour of the system afterwards fell well well short of acceptable but if anyone begins to lay anything at the door of mindless idiots they are defended to the hilt.

Most foobtball grounds had fencing around the perimeter, which SWFC had the year before for the same fixture (the whole section behind the goal was one big section, so movement was easier throughout).  However in 1989 SWFC installed 4 sections (pens) making movement impossible (also the height of the fencing did not meet the H&S standards, too high). You can clearly see the corners of this lower section were not as full, and had these pen's had not been added fans could have filtered into these areas.
Yes the FA are to blame, before choosing a venue, surely that they check the ground is safe and has the appropriate safety documents.

Quoted from The Yard Dog

Most foobtball grounds had fencing around the perimeter, which SWFC had the year before for the same fixture (the whole section behind the goal was one big section, so movement was easier throughout).  However in 1989 SWFC installed 4 sections (pens) making movement impossible (also the height of the fencing did not meet the H&S standards, too high). You can clearly see the corners of this lower section were not as full, and had these pen's had not been added fans could have filtered into these areas.
Yes the FA are to blame, before choosing a venue, surely that they check the ground is safe and has the appropriate safety documents.

totally agree, I wanted to say something along the lines of what you've said, but didn't know how to put it.