Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Classic Threads › Finally justice for the hillsborough victims
Moderators: Moderator
Users Browsing Forum
No Members and 14 Guests

Finally justice for the hillsborough victims

  This thread currently has 21,900 views. Print
13 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 All Recommend Thread
The Yard Dog
September 12, 2012, 1:25pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
THE TRUTH FINALLY OUT - POLICE COVER-UP AND LIES

Finally for the 93 victims, families and the City of Liverpool, the Prime Minister, followed by Ed Milband makes a full apology in Parliament for the Hillsborough disaster.  Lies and cover-up by the Police now been confirmed by the release of Hillsborough Panel findings and 400,000 documents, now its time to bring those responsible to justice.
Logged Offline
Private Message
FishOutOfWater
September 12, 2012, 1:34pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 12,827
Posts Per Day: 2.15
Reputation: 87.01%
Rep Score: +52 / -7
Location: Goole
Approval: +6,564
Gold Stars: 37
96 Yard Dog

Just wondered how The Sun would spin the news - thought that they might want to make something up again but they've taken a factual stance this time rather than their "truth"

POLICE and emergency services made “strenuous attempts” to deflect the blame for the Hillsborough disaster onto innocent fans....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article4534061.ece
Logged Offline
Private Message Skype
Reply: 1 - 127
cmackenzie4
September 12, 2012, 1:52pm

Recovering Alcoholic
Posts: 58,277
Posts Per Day: 11.29
Reputation: 92.05%
Rep Score: +130 / -10
Location: Grimsby
Approval: +14,320
Gold Stars: 33
People have spent years in prison by Perverting the course of Justice, will these police officers responsible do the same then. ?


Grimsby and proud!
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 2 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 12, 2012, 1:56pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Liike I put on the other thread, Will anyone be charge for the conspiracy, negligence and obstruction of justice?


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 3 - 127
aaron rattray
September 12, 2012, 2:15pm
allright viewers?
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,968
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 46.03%
Rep Score: +71 / -90
Approval: -4
I want the sun to produce a the front page of the, 96 faces and then in big letters "THE TRUTH WE LIED WE ARE SORRY


i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one  


"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"

it is official, i am a comedian

]
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 4 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 12, 2012, 2:25pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
I think the fact that MP has made his statement in Parliament stating the police had changed over 100+ documents and removed 113 witness statements to cover-up and the lied about what actually happened. It will be impossible now for those responsible to hide behind the and cover-up & lies. Life's could have been SAVED.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 5 - 127
davmariner
September 12, 2012, 2:30pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,012
Posts Per Day: 1.21
Reputation: 78.9%
Rep Score: +37 / -10
Approval: +4,860
Gold Stars: 75
Quoted from aaron rattray
I want the sun to produce a the front page of the, 96 faces and then in big letters "THE TRUTH WE LIED WE ARE SORRY


Good point Ratty, think the way The Sun newspaper conducted itself as per usual, was an utter disgrace. The day that newspaper dies will be a great day for British journalism.


Up The Mariners!
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 6 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 12, 2012, 2:31pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Watching bbc news, and the pannel is on and they are beeing too coursious of what they say, which is giving me the impression that there is still lots that haven't been told, and there's the impression that there won't be any justice because there won't be any convictions, for the conspiracy, negligence and obstruction of justice (or pervertion of justice). Just an impression I'm getting, hope I am wrong.




Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 7 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 12, 2012, 2:36pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
41, YES 41 had the potential to survive after the 3:15pm cut-off point. Of those 41 victims, 28 people had no obstruction to blood flow and 16 had heart and lung function. It's a crime that the victims families have had to fight for 23 years to get this brought out into the public domain.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 8 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 12, 2012, 2:38pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Quoted from The Yard Dog
41, YES 41 had the potential to survive after the 3:15pm cut-off point. Of those 41 victims, 28 people had no obstruction to blood flow and 16 had heart and lung function. It's a crime that the victims families have had to fight for 23 years to get this brought out into the public domain.


Shocking and discusting. I feel sorry for the famillies.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 9 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 12, 2012, 2:57pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
Here's a link to the Hillsborough's Independent Panel Report Summary
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk.....port-100252-31821081
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 10 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 12, 2012, 3:22pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Quoted from Gary Haddock
Watching bbc news, and the pannel is on and they are beeing too coursious of what they say, which is giving me the impression that there is still lots that haven't been told, and there's the impression that there won't be any justice because there won't be any convictions, for the conspiracy, negligence and obstruction of justice (or pervertion of justice). Just an impression I'm getting, hope I am wrong.



I take this back, now thinking about it, they probally realistically have to be carefull what they say until the investigation begin again. Because they would surely have to reinvestigate certain things now there is new evidance. So justice may be done, at last. Time will tell. But at least everyone knows the truth now.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 11 - 127
aaron rattray
September 12, 2012, 4:47pm
allright viewers?
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,968
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 46.03%
Rep Score: +71 / -90
Approval: -4
I am in the process of downloading all the 289 pages of the panels founding


i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one  


"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"

it is official, i am a comedian

]
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 12 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 12, 2012, 5:06pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
Arron do you have the link to the download, thanks
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 13 - 127
lawless29
September 12, 2012, 5:09pm

Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 560
Posts Per Day: 0.11
Reputation: 84.06%
Rep Score: +13 / -2
Approval: +11
Regardless of blame.opinion.accusation etc.has margaret thatcher made herself availible for comment !


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 14 - 127
grimsby pete
September 12, 2012, 5:11pm

Exile
Posts: 55,548
Posts Per Day: 9.83
Reputation: 81.7%
Rep Score: +126 / -28
Location: Suffolk
Approval: +17,753
Gold Stars: 221
There was a lot of mistakes made that day, which could have been forgiven if they told the truth and the reasons for doing certain things,

BUT

All the cover up and lies need to be looked at, and the people concerned taken to court.


                             Over 36 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             68 Years following the Town

                              Life member of Trust

                               First game   April 1955
                               
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 15 - 127
wigworld
September 12, 2012, 5:11pm

Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,124
Posts Per Day: 0.59
Reputation: 89.01%
Rep Score: +32 / -3
Approval: +2,073
Gold Stars: 29
Quoted from lawless29
Regardless of blame.opinion.accusation etc.has margaret thatcher made herself availible for comment !


I thought she had some sort of dementia? She certainly hasn't been in the public eye at all, recently.

Logged Offline
Private Message Skype
Reply: 16 - 127
lawless29
September 12, 2012, 5:21pm

Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 560
Posts Per Day: 0.11
Reputation: 84.06%
Rep Score: +13 / -2
Approval: +11
Quoted from wigworld


I thought she had some sort of dementia? She certainly hasn't been in the public eye at all, recently.


she is fine


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 17 - 127
marinerian
September 12, 2012, 6:19pm

Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 10,165
Posts Per Day: 1.71
Reputation: 69.32%
Rep Score: +33 / -16
Approval: +15
Quoted from grimsby pete
There was a lot of mistakes made that day, which could have been forgiven if they told the truth and the reasons for doing certain things,

BUT

All the cover up and lies need to be looked at, and the people concerned taken to court.


I agree 100% Pete. In a situation like that no one will know how they would react! It is clear the higher ranked officers saw they were in the excrement and started to act to cover up the excrement they had helped to start.

One paramedic was allowed in the ground in his ambulence, he stated the situation would have been far less grave if the other 40 paramedic teams had been allowed in the ground.

I read an interview with a Forest fan, he mentioned they thought Liverpool fans were running on to attack them, within seconds they realised there was something terribly wrong, they were prevented from trying to help (this could be forgiven as the 80's had seen many issues with fans) the liverpool fans.

Those responsible have shown no remorse they have had 23 years of keeping this badly kept lie and now they can be seen and the cover up will unfold as every bit of evidence will now be combed through.

Also some MP's like the baffoon Borris Johnson, owe the families and every resident of Merseyside an appology!

The Sun should be made to pay for what they wrote, the callous sick b******* wrote some horrific and very painful lies.

I was 8 years old when it happend, I remember coming home from the DIY shop and seeing on BBC Grandstand the scenes, of grown men carrying stretches and running as fast as they could, police looking gobsmaked, the one ambulence driver surrounded by pointing fans who were desperate to save their family,freiends and fellow fans.

As a kid I liked Liverpool and Town. I remember asking dad if we could go to the game at HILLSBOROUGH but mum wanted the house decorated and my dad luckily went with mums view. It was a dark day and one we should never forget!

I hope those who saved their own skin, end up serving very long stretches in Prisons near Merseyside!


UP THE MARINERS
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 18 - 127
aaron rattray
September 12, 2012, 7:54pm
allright viewers?
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,968
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 46.03%
Rep Score: +71 / -90
Approval: -4
Quoted from The Yard Dog
Arron do you have the link to the download, thanks


If you type into google hillsborough panel documents you shall find many websites where you can download the papers as a pdf file, it is 389 pages worth of reports and can be downloaded as a pdf, i would of posted a link but i downloaded it on my mobile phone  and i cant remember the link, my phone is a smartphone, im on page 48


i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one  


"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"

it is official, i am a comedian

]
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 19 - 127
Super Clive
September 12, 2012, 8:04pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,636
Posts Per Day: 1.18
Reputation: 70.68%
Rep Score: +55 / -24
Approval: +1
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 20 - 127
ExLeightonMariner
September 12, 2012, 9:47pm
Coke Drinker
Posts: 44
Posts Per Day: 0.01
Reputation: 59.07%
Rep Score: +4 / -6
Quoted from aaron rattray
I want the sun to produce a the front page of the, 96 faces and then in big letters "THE TRUTH WE LIED WE ARE SORRY


Yep, let's blame the police.  Of course it was nothing to do with thousands of drunken ticketless fans, or a stadium without a safety certificate, or inadequate emergency services, or invisible stewards.

I know you're only a kid and that shows, you're also a Liverpool fan, that shows too.  Perhaps when you grow up you'll realise that nobody deliberately intended this to happen.  It did happen however and thankfully lessons were learnt.  Anyway, off to bed now, you have double RE in the morning.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 21 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 12, 2012, 9:52pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Quoted from ExLeightonMariner


Yep, let's blame the police.  Of course it was nothing to do with thousands of drunken ticketless fans, or a stadium without a safety certificate, or inadequate emergency services, or invisible stewards.

I know you're only a kid and that shows, you're also a Liverpool fan, that shows too.  Perhaps when you grow up you'll realise that nobody deliberately intended this to happen.  It did happen however and thankfully lessons were learnt.  Anyway, off to bed now, you have double RE in the morning.


Have you not watched the news? or read any of the statements? pretty sure they know more than you.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 22 - 127
Chrisblor
September 12, 2012, 10:53pm

Elemér Berkessy
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,205
Posts Per Day: 1.22
Reputation: 72.75%
Rep Score: +51 / -20
Location: somewhere along the m180
Approval: +8,678
Gold Stars: 231
Quoted from ExLeightonMariner


Yep, let's blame the police.  Of course it was nothing to do with thousands of drunken ticketless fans, or a stadium without a safety certificate, or inadequate emergency services, or invisible stewards.

I know you're only a kid and that shows, you're also a Liverpool fan, that shows too.  Perhaps when you grow up you'll realise that nobody deliberately intended this to happen.  It did happen however and thankfully lessons were learnt.  Anyway, off to bed now, you have double RE in the morning.


This has been unequivocally proven to be utter bullshit invented by South Yorkshire Police as part of a reprehensible cover-up intended to disguise their totally inadequate response to the disaster. Aaron posts a lot of spurious nonsense but he's correct on this one. I suggest you read the findings from today's report before commenting further.


gary jones
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 23 - 127
I am Um Bongo
September 12, 2012, 10:56pm
Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 549
Posts Per Day: 0.13
Reputation: 82.7%
Rep Score: +35 / -7
Location: The Congo
Approval: +3
Hopefully someone pushes Rupert Murdoch off his solid ivory tower for allowing his shitty excuse for a tabloid to publish horrific lies as they did.

About time he bit the bullet rather than the newspaper claiming "dodgy sources".



I love you Um Bongo, we will be best friends forever <3
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 24 - 127
aaron rattray
September 13, 2012, 6:54am
allright viewers?
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,968
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 46.03%
Rep Score: +71 / -90
Approval: -4
I know i post rubbish at times but i am educated a lot about what happened at hillsborough and ibrox etc, i read all the books on football disaster etc, i wonder if david duckenfield will make a statement, probably not


i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one  


"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"

it is official, i am a comedian

]
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 25 - 127
Mrs Doyle
September 13, 2012, 7:06am
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,685
Posts Per Day: 0.79
Reputation: 66.38%
Rep Score: +22 / -13
Approval: +4,859
Quoted from wigworld


I thought she had some sort of dementia? She certainly hasn't been in the public eye at all, recently.



Yes which probably means she will never be held accountable for the cover up in any future court case ajudge will not allow evidence from a person with dementia. Even if she hasn't got it she can afford lawyers that will say otherwise.

You take the system on you just can't win sometimes .

Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 26 - 127
OneLove
September 13, 2012, 7:13am
Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 810
Posts Per Day: 0.16
Reputation: 79.95%
Rep Score: +20 / -5
Approval: +731
Gold Stars: 10
Was it through hillsborough that the all seater stadiums rule applied? If so we want justice for that as well, not only have the pigs destroyed families theyve also destroyed the atmomsphere at most grounds in the UK.

As I say and always will say A.C.A.B
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 27 - 127
big al
September 13, 2012, 7:43am
Snakebite drinker
Posts: 483
Posts Per Day: 0.09
Reputation: 86.91%
Rep Score: +5 / 0
Approval: +740
Shame on some of the earlier posts on here about Hillsborough (especially LeightonMariner) who were still happy to defend the police in general and apportion so much of the blame on to the Liverpool fans. We all know there are some very undesirable characters who follow and cause grief for all football clubs but some comments on here were poorly timed and ill conceived. I remember back in the 80s and 90s when the police looked upon all football fans with the same contempt, treating them like animals. Let’s not forget that the saddest part of all of this is that 96 people died because they went to see a game of football.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 28 - 127
RoboCod
September 13, 2012, 7:55am
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 11,420
Posts Per Day: 1.92
Reputation: 78.76%
Rep Score: +70 / -19
Approval: +7,505
Quoted from ExLeightonMariner


Yep, let's blame the police.  Of course it was nothing to do with thousands of drunken ticketless fans, or a stadium without a safety certificate, or inadequate emergency services, or invisible stewards.

I know you're only a kid and that shows, you're also a Liverpool fan, that shows too.  Perhaps when you grow up you'll realise that nobody deliberately intended this to happen.  It did happen however and thankfully lessons were learnt.  Anyway, off to bed now, you have double RE in the morning.


I'm not sure how many times you've been asked this but have you ready ANY of the news items ? Seriously? From those  450,000 documents sifted it was gathered;
No evidence to support police account that fans were drunk and aggressive
Every comments section of every news site has someone like you, someone who has either not bothered to read or has simply ignored the facts found from this complex enquiry. Is there some specific agenda these people have ? Anti football? Anti Liverpool? Or just bored, tactless wums?



Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 29 - 127
A dingo stole my baby
September 13, 2012, 8:01am
Coke Drinker
Posts: 34
Posts Per Day: 0.01
Reputation: 74.48%
Rep Score: +1 / -1
I live overseas and was not aware that a further report on the disaster was being undertaken until the last couple of days (I don’t follow UK news
as much as I once did) So please excuse my simple question: Where does this leave the Taylor Report and its findings?

Has that report now being discredited ?
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 30 - 127
Mrs Doyle
September 13, 2012, 8:16am
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,685
Posts Per Day: 0.79
Reputation: 66.38%
Rep Score: +22 / -13
Approval: +4,859
To early yet mate, I think we are still in shock at some of the evidence that has been produced. One thing is for certain this will run and run now until the truth emerges.

There is no turning back now, there will be some very far reaching recommendations and heads will roll.

It could change the way we view football in the future.  I feel football has come a long way and in no way am I saying that trouble in the eighty's did not exist but I would say there are some back sides twitching in the FA circles and MP's ex or otherwise.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 31 - 127
carrot top
September 13, 2012, 8:24am

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,909
Posts Per Day: 0.34
Reputation: 91.12%
Rep Score: +22 / -1
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +811
Gold Stars: 2
Trust the powers that be at your peril. The whole system is corrupt and they do not give a damn about the average citizen. I lost faith in the system years ago. Just a bunch of liars looking after their own ends. Thankfully people are beginning to wake up to the real truth


[color=black]The Ecky 1977
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 32 - 127
RoboCod
September 13, 2012, 8:28am
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 11,420
Posts Per Day: 1.92
Reputation: 78.76%
Rep Score: +70 / -19
Approval: +7,505
I live overseas and was not aware that a further report on the disaster was being undertaken until the last couple of days (I don’t follow UK news
as much as I once did) So please excuse my simple question: Where does this leave the Taylor Report and its findings?

Has that report now being discredited ?


The Taylor report got a lot of things right and certainly started to turn the tide of blame against the fans ( for those who bothered to read it). I'm guessing they only had what they had handed to them to work on, which wasn't a whole lot when you see the documents yesterday so maybe it wil be nullified and started over from scratch. But a lot of the key findings in it will be maintained I would have thought.



Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 33 - 127
Billybigbollox
September 13, 2012, 8:35am
Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 708
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Reputation: 83.37%
Rep Score: +12 / -2
Approval: +2
SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE  DUCKENFIELD  THATCHER THE SUN hang your heads in shame

.... Finally the lies the cover ups will be shown for what they are and justice will be had 23 yrs to late


UTM
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 34 - 127
AndyGTFC
September 13, 2012, 9:26am

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,697
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 88.72%
Rep Score: +23 / -2
Approval: +774
Gold Stars: 4
Quoted from ExLeightonMariner


Yep, let's blame the police.  Of course it was nothing to do with thousands of drunken ticketless fans, or a stadium without a safety certificate, or inadequate emergency services, or invisible stewards.


South Yorkshire Police orchestrated what is probably the biggest cover up in our country's history. How anyone can begin to make excuses for them is beyond me. Yes, there were a lot of little things that helped contribute to what happened but at the end of the day, the police failed in their care of duty and tried to cover it up, which is inexcusable.

I'm not doubting for a minute that there were SOME drunken and ticketless fans. It would be naive to think that there weren't because that happens at games even now, nevermind back then. However, they tried to spin it to make it seem like this was the majority and that they were the cause for what happened, when they weren't.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 35 - 127
aaron rattray
September 13, 2012, 12:47pm
allright viewers?
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,968
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 46.03%
Rep Score: +71 / -90
Approval: -4
I think some people should read the 389 page report because some people dont have a clue im on page 27


i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one  


"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"

it is official, i am a comedian

]
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 36 - 127
Ipswin
September 13, 2012, 12:55pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,592
Posts Per Day: 1.11
Reputation: 51.24%
Rep Score: +44 / -47
Approval: -3,552
Gold Stars: 89
Quoted from aaron rattray
I think some people should read the 389 page report because some people dont have a clue im on page 27


and knowing you, loving every minute of it - got to the gory bits yet Aaron? And you've read all the books on the disaster too? And you've watched all the video footage? Mmmm...


On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 37 - 127
Chrisblor
September 13, 2012, 1:03pm

Elemér Berkessy
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,205
Posts Per Day: 1.22
Reputation: 72.75%
Rep Score: +51 / -20
Location: somewhere along the m180
Approval: +8,678
Gold Stars: 231
Quoted from Ipswin


and knowing you, loving every minute of it - got to the gory bits yet Aaron? And you've read all the books on the disaster too? And you've watched all the video footage? Mmmm...


What the intercourse is wrong with you? That's disgusting.


gary jones
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 38 - 127
Ipswin
September 13, 2012, 1:22pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,592
Posts Per Day: 1.11
Reputation: 51.24%
Rep Score: +44 / -47
Approval: -3,552
Gold Stars: 89
Quoted from Chrisblor


What the intercourse is wrong with you? That's disgusting.


I find Aaron's obvious predilection with this event in particular (he clearly isn't going to miss a single word - if only he paid as much attention to his English homework) and death and disaster in general to be disgusting



On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 39 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 13, 2012, 1:58pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
I will be leaving a message and a scarf at BP on Saturday in memory of the 96, every football fan in the country should support the families in there fight for justice. Football fans unite together when something like this happens, whatever club we support. As football supporters we all have something in common, passion for our clubs. Its only in events like Hillsborough when we unite into one big club.
The people of Liverpool are a inspiration to all, what the families and the City of Liverpool have to endure over the 23 years, to achieve yesterday's statement and apology from Prime Minister was unbelievable.
We can help by applying public pressure so that the people at fault, who lied and involved in the cover-up in make believe stories are bought to justice.
Let's not forget these people will probably had a prosperous career's over the last 23 years, living out their life's with their loved ones, while the families of the 96 have had to fight to clear their loved names. RIP Hillsborough 96 forever in our memories and UTM.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 40 - 127
paddymariners
September 13, 2012, 2:00pm
Lager Top Drinker
Posts: 258
Posts Per Day: 0.06
Reputation: 68.04%
Rep Score: +3 / -3
Quoted from marinerian


I agree 100% Pete. In a situation like that no one will know how they would react! It is clear the higher ranked officers saw they were in the excrement and started to act to cover up the excrement they had helped to start.

One paramedic was allowed in the ground in his ambulence, he stated the situation would have been far less grave if the other 40 paramedic teams had been allowed in the ground.

I read an interview with a Forest fan, he mentioned they thought Liverpool fans were running on to attack them, within seconds they realised there was something terribly wrong, they were prevented from trying to help (this could be forgiven as the 80's had seen many issues with fans) the liverpool fans.

Those responsible have shown no remorse they have had 23 years of keeping this badly kept lie and now they can be seen and the cover up will unfold as every bit of evidence will now be combed through.

Also some MP's like the baffoon Borris Johnson, owe the families and every resident of Merseyside an appology!

The Sun should be made to pay for what they wrote, the callous sick b******* wrote some horrific and very painful lies.

I was 8 years old when it happend, I remember coming home from the DIY shop and seeing on BBC Grandstand the scenes, of grown men carrying stretches and running as fast as they could, police looking gobsmaked, the one ambulence driver surrounded by pointing fans who were desperate to save their family,freiends and fellow fans.

As a kid I liked Liverpool and Town. I remember asking dad if we could go to the game at HILLSBOROUGH but mum wanted the house decorated and my dad luckily went with mums view. It was a dark day and one we should never forget!

I hope those who saved their own skin, end up serving very long stretches in Prisons near Merseyside!


Oh! the irony.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 41 - 127
sam gy
September 13, 2012, 2:10pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,784
Posts Per Day: 0.33
Reputation: 83.91%
Rep Score: +18 / -3
Approval: +5,387
Gold Stars: 53
Quoted from ExLeightonMariner


Yep, let's blame the police.  Of course it was nothing to do with thousands of drunken ticketless fans, or a stadium without a safety certificate, or inadequate emergency services, or invisible stewards.
.


You seem to belittle the people who blame the police, but at the same time blame 'inadequate emergency services'....last time I checked the police are an emergency service?

Aaron's statement was aimed at the Sun and the police, who claimed supporters urinated on the police and stole from the dead/injured. All absolute balderdash.

And yes, i'm sure there was fans that turned up without tickets, but it is the police force's job to deal with the crowd, and they completely failed.

Nobody is blaming the officers who where there that day, who had to experience it first hand, follow orders and by all accounts tried their best to help the victims. It's the powers that be at the top which are the problem, and the despicable lies they told in the aftermath.

If there are any positives (for want of a better word) to be taken from the Hillsborough Disaster, it's the highlighting of the facts that the Government and Police WILL lie and push blame onto the public to save their own faces, and that the public should always reserve the right to question authority.

Justice for the 96.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 42 - 127
RoboCod
September 13, 2012, 2:12pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 11,420
Posts Per Day: 1.92
Reputation: 78.76%
Rep Score: +70 / -19
Approval: +7,505
Kelvim McKenzie should be harassed for the rest of his life unless he's taken to task. A more arrogant, odious man could not be found on this planet. He has no genuine compassion and his apologies are a sham, more akin to someone who has been caught out and is staring at a looming courtroom.
He has form too, using his editorial might to walk over anyone he likes (see Peter Czech link), then claims a 'misunderstanding' when proven to be lying...he shames the UK media.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1567233/Kelvin-MacKenzie-libelled-Petr-Cech-over-dog.html


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 43 - 127
GodHelpUs
September 13, 2012, 2:20pm
Snakebite drinker
Posts: 490
Posts Per Day: 0.08
Reputation: 85.37%
Rep Score: +21 / -3
Approval: -1
Quoted from The Yard Dog
I will be leaving a message and a scarf at BP on Saturday in memory of the 96, every football fan in the country should support the families in there fight for justice. Football fans unite together when something like this happens, whatever club we support. As football supporters we all have something in common, passion for our clubs. Its only in events like Hillsborough when we unite into one big club.
The people of Liverpool are a inspiration to all, what the families and the City of Liverpool have to endure over the 23 years, to achieve yesterday's statement and apology from Prime Minister was unbelievable.
We can help by applying public pressure so that the people at fault, who lied and involved in the cover-up in make believe stories are bought to justice.
Let's not forget these people will probably had a prosperous career's over the last 23 years, living out their life's with their loved ones, while the families of the 96 have had to fight to clear their loved names. RIP Hillsborough 96 forever in our memories and UTM.



What he said.  After 23 years we have had the truth...now is the time for justice. The Attorney General should put the legal wheels in motion to enable the inquest verdicts to be quashed and the cases reheard. Any police officers who are still alive (whether serving or not) who were responsible for altering statements should be charged with perverting the course of justice and, whenever appropriate, compensation should be paid including (if necessary) by News International.

We have known for many years, of course, that the fans present at the game were not responsible for what happened but what I certainly didn't appreciate the lengths to which South Yorkshire Police tampered with evidence and lobbied in order to deflect the blame.

A shameful episode for our nation and for our game.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 44 - 127
GodHelpUs
September 13, 2012, 2:30pm
Snakebite drinker
Posts: 490
Posts Per Day: 0.08
Reputation: 85.37%
Rep Score: +21 / -3
Approval: -1
Quoted from RoboCod
Kelvim McKenzie should be harassed for the rest of his life unless he's taken to task. A more arrogant, odious man could not be found on this planet. He has no genuine compassion and his apologies are a sham, more akin to someone who has been caught out and is staring at a looming courtroom.
He has form too, using his editorial might to walk over anyone he likes (see Peter Czech link), then claims a 'misunderstanding' when proven to be lying...he shames the UK media.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1567233/Kelvin-MacKenzie-libelled-Petr-Cech-over-dog.html


Agreed....a particularly despicable individual who personifies everything that has been wrong with the tabloids for the last few years.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 45 - 127
Super Clive
September 13, 2012, 6:35pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,636
Posts Per Day: 1.18
Reputation: 70.68%
Rep Score: +55 / -24
Approval: +1
Typical ExLeightonMariner being a total cont, just like he was the other week to Jonnyboy with his I earn x amount blah I've got a massive house but an half inch member blah blah twit.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 46 - 127
jock dock tower
September 14, 2012, 12:29pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,716
Posts Per Day: 1.38
Reputation: 81.81%
Rep Score: +55 / -12
Approval: +3,164
There but for the grace of God goes any number of football fans. We're football fans first and foremost, and our teams are usually pre destined (taken by parents) or fated by some other reason. We rarely make a logical choice on who it is we follow, so those of a certain age could just as easily have been at Hillsborough that day instead of Blundell Park.

It's important that we understand why things like this happen, and the people that we entrust with law enforcement are accountable. Let's not forget that this is the same Police force who were wholly discredited with widescale perjury for what happened during the 1984-85 miner's strike at Orgreave. There was a very clear correlation between the two. For football fas everywhere to have any confidence in law enforcement, those responsible for the cover up have to face justice. Anything less besmirches the deaths of the 96.

Lest we forget.


No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 47 - 127
AlanPoutonsTackle
September 14, 2012, 1:05pm
Lager Top Drinker
Posts: 340
Posts Per Day: 0.08
Reputation: 81.46%
Rep Score: +14 / -3
Location: Hull
Approval: +57
I am like everyone else pleased that the truth is out and there is some semi justice for the families I am however also inclined to apportion an amount of blame to anyone who has ever been involved in or condoned football hooliganism. The final factor that led to all these sad deaths was that because people could not behave at a sporting venue everyone was fenced in during those times like animals. without this they could have gone onto the pitch and there would have been no casualties.
This incident is the legacy of that era and the blame spreads like disease.


"With a minute to go Buckley said keep it in the corner, I thought he meant the top corner." - Jim Dobbin
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 48 - 127
marinette
September 14, 2012, 1:10pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,299
Posts Per Day: 1.06
Reputation: 88.56%
Rep Score: +38 / -4
Approval: +320
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from jock dock tower
There but for the grace of God goes any number of football fans. We're football fans first and foremost, and our teams are usually pre destined (taken by parents) or fated by some other reason. We rarely make a logical choice on who it is we follow, so those of a certain age could just as easily have been at Hillsborough that day instead of Blundell Park.

It's important that we understand why things like this happen, and the people that we entrust with law enforcement are accountable. Let's not forget that this is the same Police force who were wholly discredited with widescale perjury for what happened during the 1984-85 miner's strike at Orgreave. There was a very clear correlation between the two. For football fas everywhere to have any confidence in law enforcement, those responsible for the cover up have to face justice. Anything less besmirches the deaths of the 96.

Lest we forget.


I think so too.  For too long, the '30 years' rule meant things could be hidden away until the general public had almost forgotten, or perhaps when the truth came out it was too late to do much about it.  Hillsborough justice is well overdue.  I hope the Freedom of Information Act will make the state more accountable to the population that elects it, but I do still wonder.

It's a struggle sometimes, but I try to force myself to think of 'agents of the state' like the police as just human beings in uniform.  Any position of power can corrupt, but I've known occasions, when there has been a potential 'us and them' situation, and when you get talking to 'them', they'll do something surprising, like offering a whole group of people cups of hot soup from their police van on a freezing cold day.  Another example: during last year's public sector strike, in a situation where there were legally too many pickets, a police officer approached only to say that he supported the strike 100%, and his own wife was on strike too.  So they have the potential to be with us, as well as against us.






Logged
Private Message
Reply: 49 - 127
marinette
September 14, 2012, 1:13pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,299
Posts Per Day: 1.06
Reputation: 88.56%
Rep Score: +38 / -4
Approval: +320
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle
I am like everyone else pleased that the truth is out and there is some semi justice for the families I am however also inclined to apportion an amount of blame to anyone who has ever been involved in or condoned football hooliganism. The final factor that led to all these sad deaths was that because people could not behave at a sporting venue everyone was fenced in during those times like animals. without this they could have gone onto the pitch and there would have been no casualties.
This incident is the legacy of that era and the blame spreads like disease.


Very, very well said.  I wish more people could see it that way, instead of all the pathetic glorification of violence that we hear so often (especially on the fishy).






Logged
Private Message
Reply: 50 - 127
Rodley Mariner
September 14, 2012, 1:32pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,798
Posts Per Day: 1.37
Reputation: 78.86%
Rep Score: +63 / -17
Location: Farsley, Leeds
Approval: +13,215
Gold Stars: 176
I think it's a big jump to blame football hooligans for those deaths. I'm completely with you in thinking it's moronic and pathetic and it's something I have no interest in. Blame them for football fans being treated poorly but to suggest they are responsible for 96 people dying isn't fair.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 51 - 127
Dan
September 14, 2012, 1:36pm

Exile
Posts: 2,054
Posts Per Day: 0.36
Reputation: 69.68%
Rep Score: +36 / -17
Location: London
Approval: +551
Although you're right, they're not directly involved, hooliganism is the reason those cages were there. I mean, there's a myriad of contributing factors that put together helped cause the whole event. The scandal is in the cover up as much as the contributing factors.


Quoted from John Fenty, April 2013
I deconstructed the flag to the point where it was safe and couldn’t be considered a danger
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 52 - 127
Rodley Mariner
September 14, 2012, 1:41pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,798
Posts Per Day: 1.37
Reputation: 78.86%
Rep Score: +63 / -17
Location: Farsley, Leeds
Approval: +13,215
Gold Stars: 176
Quoted from Dan
Although you're right, they're not directly involved, hooliganism is the reason those cages were there. I mean, there's a myriad of contributing factors that put together helped cause the whole event. The scandal is in the cover up as much as the contributing factors.


The authorities chose to put those cages in place and the people supposed to ensure people were safe within those cages failed to do so.

I agree with you entirely that the cover up is the hardest thing to digest. You can just about accept that people make horrific accidental mistakes or get things terribly wrong which cause people to die but to then cover up the reasons and try to shift the blame onto the dead and to alter and destroy evidence is such a grotesque abuse of power. One of the things I find the least palatable is the blood-testing and criminal background checking of the dead including children as if somehow a previous offence or some alcohol in their system would've proved it was their own fault.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 53 - 127
marinette
September 14, 2012, 1:50pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,299
Posts Per Day: 1.06
Reputation: 88.56%
Rep Score: +38 / -4
Approval: +320
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
I think it's a big jump to blame football hooligans for those deaths. I'm completely with you in thinking it's moronic and pathetic and it's something I have no interest in. Blame them for football fans being treated poorly but to suggest they are responsible for 96 people dying isn't fair.


Thing is, Rodley, some people still haven't learnt.  The cages were put up as a result of football violence and the need for segregation and an attempt to stop people encroaching on the pitch.  The cages were taken down because 96 people died.  And yet three years ago, violence on a large scale still erupted between West Ham and Millwall fans (was it?).  Last season was the only year in my memory that we haven't seen a pitch invasion at the end of a season, and every year the authorities at BP have asked people NOT to invade the pitch.  And then of course you get p*ssed up idiots like that moron at BP on Saturday.  Every time I see something like that ... every single time... I remember my friend's description of being in the Leppings Lane end and screaming at a policewoman to open the gates.  The policewoman heard, but turned her back - why?  For fear of football violence, perhaps?  For fear of the 'usual' kind of pitch invasion?  What was the excuse for the police not letting more ambulances onto the pitch?  'The fans were fighting'.    






Logged
Private Message
Reply: 54 - 127
jock dock tower
September 14, 2012, 1:50pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,716
Posts Per Day: 1.38
Reputation: 81.81%
Rep Score: +55 / -12
Approval: +3,164
Letter in the Guardian today along the lines of "bent coppers, Murdoch lies, Tory government...we've come a long way in 23 years"

The whole of the letters page in the Guardian is devoted to Hillsborough today, and it's well worth a butcher's if anyone cares to go onto their website.


No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 55 - 127
Rodley Mariner
September 14, 2012, 2:35pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,798
Posts Per Day: 1.37
Reputation: 78.86%
Rep Score: +63 / -17
Location: Farsley, Leeds
Approval: +13,215
Gold Stars: 176
Quoted from marinette


Thing is, Rodley, some people still haven't learnt.  The cages were put up as a result of football violence and the need for segregation and an attempt to stop people encroaching on the pitch.  The cages were taken down because 96 people died.  And yet three years ago, violence on a large scale still erupted between West Ham and Millwall fans (was it?).  Last season was the only year in my memory that we haven't seen a pitch invasion at the end of a season, and every year the authorities at BP have asked people NOT to invade the pitch.  And then of course you get p*ssed up idiots like that moron at BP on Saturday.  Every time I see something like that ... every single time... I remember my friend's description of being in the Leppings Lane end and screaming at a policewoman to open the gates.  The policewoman heard, but turned her back - why?  For fear of football violence, perhaps?  For fear of the 'usual' kind of pitch invasion?  What was the excuse for the police not letting more ambulances onto the pitch?  'The fans were fighting'.    


I agree with you that they're idiots, that they never learn, that they tarnish decent football supporters and increase the likelihood of the rest of us being treated poorly. I will never agree that they're responsible for those 96 people dying - the authorities decided to put those cages in and they failed to protect the people they put in them.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 56 - 127
RoboCod
September 14, 2012, 4:05pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 11,420
Posts Per Day: 1.92
Reputation: 78.76%
Rep Score: +70 / -19
Approval: +7,505
The fencing is/was a contentious issue but whatever their unsuitability you have to wonder how any ground could have a remotest chance of getting a safety certificate for what is essentially a set of cages with a one way entrance and a tiny door to be opened in the event of an emergency, with the definition of 'emergency' obviously rather hazy just to compound the whole issue.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 57 - 127
jock dock tower
September 14, 2012, 4:50pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,716
Posts Per Day: 1.38
Reputation: 81.81%
Rep Score: +55 / -12
Approval: +3,164
...then you had the utter idiots like Ken Bates who wanted to compound matters during his tenure at Stamford Bridge by adding electric wire across the top of the fencing.

Football hooliganism was undoubtedly a huge issue, and anyone who was around in those days is in denial if they don't understand that, but.......the vast majority of football fans have always been decent law abiding citizens. The thing is, the reaction to hooliganism in the shape of fences, did not discriminate and hence the deaths of young children (Steven Gerard's nephew was 10 when he perished there) and women who would not have even understood about hooliganism.

If you're treating someone for cancer, you don't chop off their arms and legs just in case, you deal with the real issue.


No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 58 - 127
marinette
September 14, 2012, 6:47pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,299
Posts Per Day: 1.06
Reputation: 88.56%
Rep Score: +38 / -4
Approval: +320
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from jock dock tower
....the vast majority of football fans have always been decent law abiding citizens.


And that is the key to it all.  I can step back from things and look at what you say about the authorities without emotion.  I agree that the authorities have treated football fans appallingly badly and tarred every one of us with the same brush, and with dire, tragic consequences too.  That's pretty obvious, and although it's horrific, it's the easy bit, as far as I'm concerned.  

The bit that's difficult for me, the bit that I really take personally, involves some of the accusations that have been made against Liverpool supporters in particular, by people who have no real experience of being amongst them.  I'm not just talking about the media here (and I don't think hate is a strong enough word to express my feelings for the Sun newspaper), I'm talking about a certain section of football 'supporters' - I can see the sheer injustice, the lies and hypocrisy that emanates from them - I can see how they judge other people by their own standards - and I've been listening to it and trying to make sense of it for years.  That, in particular, makes me want to lash out and retaliate and start apportioning blame where I believe it is truly deserved.

I don't know how much control Merseyside police had over the Liverpool fans during that game.  It's pretty obvious that South Yorkshire Police had main control, as they are the ones figuring in the news now.  Undoubtedly there would have been some Merseyside police officers there, both on and off duty, and although Kenneth Oxford made negative accusations against the Liverpool fans at the time, these accusations were denied by others:

'In newspaper reports at the time, the Merseyside Police Federation was quoted as saying that the accusations against Liverpool fans were "ill-informed comments" which were "based on hearsay rather than evidence". The local federation secretary said that his phone had been "red hot" with calls from Merseyside officers demanding he speak out to "redress the balance".  (BBC News)

I wonder if the outcome would have been different had Merseyside Police been in full control of the situation - I would say they certainly had a better understanding of their own supporters and would probably have reacted differently when the tragedy started to unfold.







Logged
Private Message
Reply: 59 - 127
2578
September 14, 2012, 7:48pm
Guest User
[quote=746]Letter in the Guardian today along the lines of "bent coppers, Murdoch lies, Tory government...we've come a long way in 23 years"

The whole of the letters page in the Guardian is devoted to Hillsborough today, and it's well worth a butcher's if anyone cares to go onto their website.[/

The Guardian   intercourse off Jock your taking the urine no one reads that pile of left wing horse excrement.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 60 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 14, 2012, 7:54pm
Guest User
Coreection grim74. . . No one in your social-circle, social class or level of education reads that left wing sh1t!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 61 - 127
Ipswin
September 14, 2012, 7:55pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,592
Posts Per Day: 1.11
Reputation: 51.24%
Rep Score: +44 / -47
Approval: -3,552
Gold Stars: 89
Quoted from jock dock tower
Letter in the Guardian today along the lines of "bent coppers, Murdoch lies, Tory government...we've come a long way in 23 years"

The whole of the letters page in the Guardian is devoted to Hillsborough today, and it's well worth a butcher's if anyone cares to go onto their website.


The Guardian? FFS Jock! Not fit to wrap me chips in son.


On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 62 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 14, 2012, 8:03pm
Guest User
Quoted from Ipswin


The Guardian? FFS Jock! Not fit to wrap me chips in son.


Yeah, The Sun is more your style Ipswin. .   (I use the word 'style' in it's loosest possible sense)
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 63 - 127
codcheeky
September 14, 2012, 11:55pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,955
Posts Per Day: 0.38
Reputation: 83.82%
Rep Score: +23 / -4
Approval: +1,251
Gold Stars: 31
Ipswin you come across as as a bitter greed inspired girl private, one of thatchers children where everything is about  cost, even you must believe the police should not change statements , lie and hide the truth, if faith in law is broken we will have anarchy you only at last years riots to see that
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 64 - 127
jock dock tower
September 15, 2012, 7:35am
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,716
Posts Per Day: 1.38
Reputation: 81.81%
Rep Score: +55 / -12
Approval: +3,164
Glad to have sparked a bit of a debate, but think we've moved somewhat away from the original thread of accountability for Hillsborough. The letters are thought provoking, and certainly add to that debate.


No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 65 - 127
AlanPoutonsTackle
September 15, 2012, 12:44pm
Lager Top Drinker
Posts: 340
Posts Per Day: 0.08
Reputation: 81.46%
Rep Score: +14 / -3
Location: Hull
Approval: +57
Quoted from Rodley Mariner
I think it's a big jump to blame football hooligans for those deaths. I'm completely with you in thinking it's moronic and pathetic and it's something I have no interest in. Blame them for football fans being treated poorly but to suggest they are responsible for 96 people dying isn't fair.



I said apportion some blame. the police, government, FA weren't to blame although i would put a large chunk of blame toward the FA but the incident has been built round trigger effects. It is a well and truly undeniable non argumentable fact that without the fences which were put up due to hooliganism no one would have died. I find it horrendous that over a period of time everyone is quick to jump on the blame the system bandwagon and god knows the behaviour of the system afterwards fell well well short of acceptable but if anyone begins to lay anything at the door of mindless idiots they are defended to the hilt.


"With a minute to go Buckley said keep it in the corner, I thought he meant the top corner." - Jim Dobbin
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 66 - 127
AlanPoutonsTackle
September 15, 2012, 1:01pm
Lager Top Drinker
Posts: 340
Posts Per Day: 0.08
Reputation: 81.46%
Rep Score: +14 / -3
Location: Hull
Approval: +57
Quoted from marinette


Thing is, Rodley, some people still haven't learnt.  The cages were put up as a result of football violence and the need for segregation and an attempt to stop people encroaching on the pitch.  The cages were taken down because 96 people died.  And yet three years ago, violence on a large scale still erupted between West Ham and Millwall fans (was it?).  Last season was the only year in my memory that we haven't seen a pitch invasion at the end of a season, and every year the authorities at BP have asked people NOT to invade the pitch.  And then of course you get p*ssed up idiots like that moron at BP on Saturday.  Every time I see something like that ... every single time... I remember my friend's description of being in the Leppings Lane end and screaming at a policewoman to open the gates.  The policewoman heard, but turned her back - why?  For fear of football violence, perhaps?  For fear of the 'usual' kind of pitch invasion?  What was the excuse for the police not letting more ambulances onto the pitch?  'The fans were fighting'.    


I think the issues surround the fact that it was a unique incident where decision making on the day fell far short of what would be reasonable. The argument would be why the authorities didnt hold their hands up and say we did this or that wrong. I suspect if  a wrong decision if it is made with the right intentions is laid on the table early on we wouldnt be discussing the incident today and families would have been able in some way to move on.. You say a police woman refused to open a gate. This could have been a robotic action toward a order she had been given. Not an established non desire to react. There would also have been a fear from that policewoman at that time if she opened the gate would she be responsible for a full on pitch violent incident.Was she in fear for her safety could she from there have recognized the full incident as it was with people dying, was she an unpaid special who was far far out of her depth. has she regretted not opening the gate every day since. The day was a tragedy and the cover up in many ways a tragedy in itself.



"With a minute to go Buckley said keep it in the corner, I thought he meant the top corner." - Jim Dobbin
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 67 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 15, 2012, 1:40pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
Quoted from AlanPoutonsTackle



I said apportion some blame. the police, government, FA weren't to blame although i would put a large chunk of blame toward the FA but the incident has been built round trigger effects. It is a well and truly undeniable non argumentable fact that without the fences which were put up due to hooliganism no one would have died. I find it horrendous that over a period of time everyone is quick to jump on the blame the system bandwagon and god knows the behaviour of the system afterwards fell well well short of acceptable but if anyone begins to lay anything at the door of mindless idiots they are defended to the hilt.


Most foobtball grounds had fencing around the perimeter, which SWFC had the year before for the same fixture (the whole section behind the goal was one big section, so movement was easier throughout).  However in 1989 SWFC installed 4 sections (pens) making movement impossible (also the height of the fencing did not meet the H&S standards, too high). You can clearly see the corners of this lower section were not as full, and had these pen's had not been added fans could have filtered into these areas.
Yes the FA are to blame, before choosing a venue, surely that they check the ground is safe and has the appropriate safety documents.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 68 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 15, 2012, 1:50pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Quoted from The Yard Dog


Most foobtball grounds had fencing around the perimeter, which SWFC had the year before for the same fixture (the whole section behind the goal was one big section, so movement was easier throughout).  However in 1989 SWFC installed 4 sections (pens) making movement impossible (also the height of the fencing did not meet the H&S standards, too high). You can clearly see the corners of this lower section were not as full, and had these pen's had not been added fans could have filtered into these areas.
Yes the FA are to blame, before choosing a venue, surely that they check the ground is safe and has the appropriate safety documents.


totally agree, I wanted to say something along the lines of what you've said, but didn't know how to put it.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 69 - 127
aaron rattray
September 15, 2012, 5:02pm
allright viewers?
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 5,968
Posts Per Day: 1.25
Reputation: 46.03%
Rep Score: +71 / -90
Approval: -4
From what I've seen the pens was stacked so tightly and there was like 300 hundred in the corners


i am a season ticket holder and i always will be one  


"aaron is the next michael barrymore, hes a comedinan"

it is official, i am a comedian

]
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 70 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 15, 2012, 6:18pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
Been down to BP today to leave a Liverpool scarf,card and a bunch of flowers in memory of the 96 victim's - may they rest in peace now.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 71 - 127
OneNightInGrimsby
September 25, 2012, 11:43am

Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 789
Posts Per Day: 0.13
Reputation: 73.31%
Rep Score: +6 / -3
At least we only had one idiot come on here and tell us the fans where to blame, that is a step in the right direction for the justice campaign as the bad things that were said in the papers and by the cops have still been believed to this day, it's good now we have the truth and people can see who was at fault.

That cover up from maggie and the old bill was a big thankyou from maggie to say thanks for smashing the miners. If i have to check a pulse in the near future and i have gloves on i will probably the take them off first as it is easier to check if the pulse is still pumping, hopefully S. Yorks police now teach there officers how to do this or where they just a bunch of thick cunnts in 1989.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 72 - 127
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
September 25, 2012, 12:45pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,638
Posts Per Day: 1.35
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,658
Gold Stars: 23
Some people never read things properly do they? Or else they only read what they want to read.

They will take what the idiot coroner did with his daft blood tests and say that this proves the fans were not drinking for instance. Of course those fans were not drinking, they were the early ones who hadn't been in the pub and were killed by the crush of other fans coming in. Were those late coming fans drinking? Who knows? They would definitely never admit to being in the pub any more than they would admit rushing a gate or climbing a wall or anything else. What Liverpool supporter is ever going to admit to doing anything even one tiny little bit wrong on that day? It will never happen and there will certainly never be any statement from any supporter that does not exonerate every other Liverpool supporter.

That is where this latest investigation and any other investigation before or in future falls flat on its face. Uncovering a cover up is easy. There are documents to be found and statements were made at the time. We know what politicians said at the time and later. Establishing what the police and ambulance services did or didn't do is very easy as well. Finding out what SWFC and the FA did or didn't do is there in concrete and iron. We even know why the concrete and iron was there.

But what will never, ever, be found out is the whole truth. That is because one whole side of the story will always be missing.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 73 - 127
PrestwichMariner
September 25, 2012, 1:06pm
Exile
Posts: 771
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Reputation: 84.77%
Rep Score: +3 / 0
Location: Prestwich
Approval: +281
Gold Stars: 5
Just to spice it up a bit whilst I would tend to agree that it wasn't the fault of the Liverpool fans its a bit hard to have sympathy when you remember what happened a cuple of years earlier at Hysel. I don't hear many Liverpool fans calling for justice on that one!


Wearing badges is not enough in days like these!
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 74 - 127
FishOutOfWater
September 25, 2012, 1:31pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 12,827
Posts Per Day: 2.15
Reputation: 87.01%
Rep Score: +52 / -7
Location: Goole
Approval: +6,564
Gold Stars: 37
Quoted from PrestwichMariner
Just to spice it up a bit whilst I would tend to agree that it wasn't the fault of the Liverpool fans its a bit hard to have sympathy when you remember what happened a cuple of years earlier at Hysel. I don't hear many Liverpool fans calling for justice on that one!


Agree with you to some extent about Liverpool fans keeping quiet about Heysel but there were also many other factors at play that night ...it wasn't just a random event where Liverpool fans decided to kill Juventus fans on sight

Many Liverpool "fans" may have been looking for revenge at the way they'd been turned over the previous year in the European final in Rome and this along with the Juventus Ultras' provocation made for an aggressive atmosphere on the night

Imho the stadium facilities and the authorities' planning were once again lacking and sadly once again it meant innocent bystanders losing their lives
Logged Offline
Private Message Skype
Reply: 75 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 25, 2012, 5:16pm
Guest User
Quoted from PrestwichMariner
Just to spice it up a bit whilst I would tend to agree that it wasn't the fault of the Liverpool fans its a bit hard to have sympathy when you remember what happened a cuple of years earlier at Hysel. I don't hear many Liverpool fans calling for justice on that one!


Spice it up? Freak!

Several liverpool fans were charged convicted and served prison terms for heysel!

Why you bring this up again is beyond me!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 76 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 25, 2012, 5:18pm
Guest User
Prestwich mariner. . . Your post could easily pass for a letter in Viz!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 77 - 127
bladerunnner
September 25, 2012, 6:54pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from 1054


Spice it up? Freak!

Several liverpool fans were charged convicted and served prison terms for heysel!

Why you bring this up again is beyond me!


nice to see the steaua Bucharest flag  being waved in the kop at anfield,as a reminder  to all evertonians about how they were denied a cup in that year    . this won't sit well for a lot of you but i think this inquiry has been "engineered" by the authourities to absolve blame from the liverpool fans to "shut them up" in the hope that this will be the end of it,i realy feel for the families of the 96,but theres still a lot we don't know about that day,both from the police AND some liverpool fans who in my  opinion were responsible in some way for those events. bt w im no bitter blue,manc or whatever,just say it as i see it.


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 78 - 127
jock dock tower
September 25, 2012, 7:01pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,716
Posts Per Day: 1.38
Reputation: 81.81%
Rep Score: +55 / -12
Approval: +3,164
Quoted from bladerunnner


nice to see the steaua Bucharest flag  being waved in the kop at anfield,as a reminder  to all evertonians about how they were denied a cup in that year    . this won't sit well for a lot of you but i think this inquiry has been "engineered" by the authourities to absolve blame from the liverpool fans to "shut them up" in the hope that this will be the end of it,i realy feel for the families of the 96,but theres still a lot we don't know about that day,both from the police AND some liverpool fans who in my  opinion were responsible in some way for those events. bt w im no bitter blue,manc or whatever,just say it as i see it.


Perhaps you may be able to explain then, using all the available evidence, what role "some Liverpool fans" played in the slaughter? I await with interest.....



No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 79 - 127
Neilo83
September 25, 2012, 7:01pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,666
Posts Per Day: 0.29
Reputation: 75.6%
Rep Score: +17 / -6
Approval: +261
Gold Stars: 4
Didnt big gates get opened to let the fans out? but instead the fans outside used it as a gateway to get in the ground?
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 80 - 127
bladerunnner
September 25, 2012, 7:13pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from Neilo83
Didnt big gates get opened to let the fans out? but instead the fans outside used it as a gateway to get in the ground?


according to someone who was there (and not all these "world authorities" on the events of that day that reside    on here) that is about the crux of what happened. someone in charge of that gate was told to open it,due to pressure  from outside the gate. people keep skirting around the issue why were fences up in the first place  ? answer,football fans of that time behaved like wild animals (not all of them but a significant number) that is the real tragedy,if people knew how to behave like decent law abiding citizens,then fences wouldn't exist would they? its wrong to say those idiots trying to get into the game without tickets had no part in what happened that day,deep down some people who went to that game know they have something to answer for,if this upsets people on here then tough,i believe it wasn't all the fault of the stewards and police on that day,yes,some coppers at the top tried to cover their mistakes up and that is truly disgusting, but for everyone to say that some liverpool fans weren't partly responsible is sycophantic bullshit of the highest order.


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 81 - 127
RoboCod
September 25, 2012, 7:18pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 11,420
Posts Per Day: 1.92
Reputation: 78.76%
Rep Score: +70 / -19
Approval: +7,505
FFS, don't some of you read anything?
Bladerunner, wtf? Go join a 9/11 theory forum or something. That's the most shameful, pitiful thing I've read anywhere. 40 odd thousand pages of documents and you spout shite like that.
Why the hell was this thread dragged back anyway.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 82 - 127
grimps
September 25, 2012, 7:22pm
balderdash
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,412
Posts Per Day: 0.78
Reputation: 57.6%
Rep Score: +21 / -19
Approval: +4,994
Gold Stars: 46
Quoted from bladerunnner


nice to see the steaua Bucharest flag  being waved in the kop at anfield,as a reminder  to all evertonians about how they were denied a cup in that year    . this won't sit well for a lot of you but i think this inquiry has been "engineered" by the authourities to absolve blame from the liverpool fans to "shut them up" in the hope that this will be the end of it,i realy feel for the families of the 96,but theres still a lot we don't know about that day,both from the police AND some liverpool fans who in my  opinion were responsible in some way for those events. bt w im no bitter blue,manc or whatever,just say it as i see it.


I can believe some of that ,the fact that the arch bishop of Liverpool was part of the inquiry sort of tells me it wasnt the most independent.
Ive said before that many different factors were to blame that day ,the poor Policing and the fans were just some of them but could be forgiven as unintentional.
One thing is for sure though the police and their cover up afterwards was intentional and can never be forgiven
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 83 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 25, 2012, 7:23pm
Guest User
Bladerunner. .   unnecessary g0bshite of the week!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 84 - 127
bladerunnner
September 25, 2012, 7:27pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from RoboCod
FFS, don't some of you read anything?
Bladerunner, wtf? Go join a 9/11 theory forum or something. That's the most shameful, pitiful thing I've read anywhere. 40 odd thousand pages of documents and you spout shite like that.
Why the hell was this thread dragged back anyway.


why is it shamefull? im only saying what i believed happened based on the evidence of people i have spoke to WHO WERE THERE, who was it that rushed through the gates then ? if not liverpool fans then who? magic faries? its not as clear cut as people think,the way its been shown it seems as though it was all down to the police,no serving police officer at the time of that would have nothing more than peoples safety and well being at the forefront of his/her mind,they were put in a position of impossible odds,and let down badly by thier supieriors.


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 85 - 127
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
September 25, 2012, 7:30pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,638
Posts Per Day: 1.35
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,658
Gold Stars: 23
Quoted from RoboCod
FFS, don't some of you read anything?
Bladerunner, wtf? Go join a 9/11 theory forum or something. That's the most shameful, pitiful thing I've read anywhere. 40 odd thousand pages of documents and you spout shite like that.
Why the hell was this thread dragged back anyway.


Like I said earlier - some people don't read and some people only want to read what they want to read. Of course there are thousands of documents. There have been inquiries on inquiries and statements on statements and records on records - all on paper.

But - the biggest but of all - there are no statements from those late comer fans who created the crush. There are statements about road works, traffic jams and late coaches but no statements about behaviour from the other fans outside the ground who arrived late from the pub. They will never, ever admit to that because they daren't. They are sh1t scared of admitting that any Liverpool person might just have been a teeny weeny little bit naughty.

So we will never get all the pieces of this jigsaw together if we have an inquiry every year for the next decade.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 86 - 127
bladerunnner
September 25, 2012, 7:32pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from 1054
Bladerunner. .   unnecessary g0bshite of the week!


thats why the media is controlled,so idiots  like you can be brainwashed into   believing anything.........................im getting the word......pleb


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 87 - 127
bladerunnner
September 25, 2012, 7:35pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10


Like I said earlier - some people don't read and some people only want to read what they want to read. Of course there are thousands of documents. There have been inquiries on inquiries and statements on statements and records on records - all on paper.

But - the biggest but of all - there are no statements from those late comer fans who created the crush. There are statements about road works, traffic jams and late coaches but no statements about behaviour from the other fans outside the ground who arrived late from the pub. They will never, ever admit to that because they daren't. They are sh1t scared of admitting that any Liverpool person might just have been a teeny weeny little bit naughty.

So we will never get all the pieces of this jigsaw together if we have an inquiry every year for the next decade.

on no,don't dare suggest it may have been something to do with them after all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you will be accused of "scouseism" a great post btw ,bravely bucking the trend to conform to everyone elses touchy feely opinions.


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 88 - 127
bladerunnner
September 25, 2012, 7:41pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from 1054
Prestwich mariner. . . Your post could easily pass for a letter in Viz!


i come on here for (sometimes heated) debates..................you just want to abuse people whose opinion differs to yours= you=nazi.


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 89 - 127
grimps
September 25, 2012, 7:44pm
balderdash
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,412
Posts Per Day: 0.78
Reputation: 57.6%
Rep Score: +21 / -19
Approval: +4,994
Gold Stars: 46


Like I said earlier - some people don't read and some people only want to read what they want to read. Of course there are thousands of documents. There have been inquiries on inquiries and statements on statements and records on records - all on paper.

But - the biggest but of all - there are no statements from those late comer fans who created the crush. There are statements about road works, traffic jams and late coaches but no statements about behaviour from the other fans outside the ground who arrived late from the pub. They will never, ever admit to that because they daren't. They are sh1t scared of admitting that any Liverpool person might just have been a teeny weeny little bit naughty.

So we will never get all the pieces of this jigsaw together if we have an inquiry every year for the next decade.


Ive met a few people that was there that day over the years ,one Liverpool fan and 3 Forest.
The Liverpool fan I worked with would never talk about it and never went to a game again.
Two of the Forest fans I know were probably what you would call '' Lads '' or ''thugs ' around that time ,they both told me how they was fighting with Liverpool fans before the game and they reckon there was nearly trouble on the pitch during until it became obvious what was really unfolding.
One of them has also never gone to a game since ,he said he had a lot of guilt about that day and what they was getting up to.
The other a mate of mine from Mansfield who I only spoke to the other day still maintained that there was a lot of scousers looking for aggro that day and he knows because he was also fighting with them.
Now look at it like this ,anyone that went to football games in the late 80s will tell you that at any big game there was trouble,this was even the same at town games around that time with a tenth of the crowds what was there that day .
Now of course the Police should have been able to do a better job than they did,of course the stadium should have been in a better condition and had better stewarding but some of the Liverpool fans there that day have to accept a little blame.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 90 - 127
Ipswin
September 25, 2012, 8:06pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,592
Posts Per Day: 1.11
Reputation: 51.24%
Rep Score: +44 / -47
Approval: -3,552
Gold Stars: 89



But - the biggest but of all - there are no statements from those late comer fans who created the crush. There are statements about road works, traffic jams and late coaches but no statements about behaviour from the other fans outside the ground who arrived late from the pub. They will never, ever admit to that because they daren't. They are sh1t scared of admitting that any Liverpool person might just have been a teeny weeny little bit naughty.

So we will never get all the pieces of this jigsaw together if we have an inquiry every year for the next decade.


Great post - this is a vital area which the majority still seek to overlook

Everyone is concentrating on how the 96 victims of the tragedy have been cleared of blame - who on earth thought it was their own fault anyway FFS? Certainly no one I have ever spoken to and a cover-up of any of the incidents / actions that day is deplorable but

The fact that the police, with no malice whatsoever, inadvertently caused the disaster by opening the gate to the centre pen has been known and admitted by the police for many many years - it's not new in any way - it was obvious (and agreed by the police) years ago

Why the poor copper in charge at that end made that tragic decision and opened the gate is also quite clear but every Liverpool fan still chooses to bury his / her head in the sand, sweep it under the carpet and try to divert attention away from the reason which was the late arrival of a large number of fans, many drunk, many without tickets and some no doubt with the red mists coming down as kick off time approached all trying to get in via turnstiles thereby causing the police to open the gate believing it might help avoid possible injuries



On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 91 - 127
OneNightInGrimsby
September 25, 2012, 8:10pm

Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 789
Posts Per Day: 0.13
Reputation: 73.31%
Rep Score: +6 / -3
2000 fans outside the exit gates trying to get in at about 14.55, i suppose they all left the pub together and then tried to get in ..... They obviously didn't it was bulding up from about 14.15 and the cops allowed the crowd to build up then blamed them for turning up late, all because of lazy police work.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 92 - 127
ska face
September 25, 2012, 9:07pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,147
Posts Per Day: 1.21
Reputation: 80.94%
Rep Score: +60 / -14
Approval: +21,340
Gold Stars: 824
I've no idea why people still persist with this idea that there were hoardes of drunk up, ticketless Liverpool fans trying to get through the gates, standing at the back of the crowd - heaving their way in, pushing, shoving, kicking, punching...

Taylor estimated in his report that the capacity of the Leppings Lane end was 10,100. From the best estimate they could get from the turnstile readings, and counting every head on photographic and video evidence, they estimated there were 9,700 fans in attendance. So this dispells the myth of the crush being caused by ticketless fans - over and above the safe ticket allocation - causing the crush.

I suggest those of you still insistent on blaming these fans take a look at this video:

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

Anyone who's ever been to a big gig knows that it doesn't take hundreds of people to be pushing and shoving at the back of a crowd to cause a massive build-up of pressure. One person walks up behind you, you take a step forward. The person in front of you follows suit. Then again. Again. At the back, you could be stood merely brushing up against the person in front of you, but at the front, the effect is a huge crush. That's what happened outside the ground - it's clear for anyone to see in the footage.

With around 15 minutes to kick off, there were still around 5000 people stood outside the Leppings Lane gates - Taylor estimated it would have taken until 3:40 for this backlog to be cleared through the aged turnstiles. The people who got in through the gate would have been stood there for a long time, there was a large build up of fans, bordering on unmanageable, from around 2:15. The people who entered through Gate C would have been stood there for a considerable length of time, so the late comers, who you are still desperately trying to pin blame on, were not to blame.

The biggest in a series of monumental intercourse-ups was the decision not to close off the tunnel to the two central pens which were already 'overfull'. An official response from SYP following the incident stated that fans were expected "to find their level", like water in a bath, once inside the ground. In other words, this meant that they couldn't give a fiddler's intercourse what happened to the fans inside the ground - and look what happened.

Had Liverpool fans been fighting on the day? Probably, but that is completely and utterly irrelevant with regards to the deaths caused by the crush. Not quite sure why Prestwich Mariner brought up the issue of Heysel, possibly because he's an idiot, but maybe the reason that Liverpool fans weren't calling for 'justice' back then may be due to the fact 14 Liverpool fans were deported, convicted and jailed at the time. Roundball...'s comments about the whole inquiry being a set up just to keep the Liverpool fans quiet is just on an entirely new level of stupidity. Over a million people marched on London to protest against an illegal war in the middle-east. They did it anyway and are still blowing brown people to dust on a daily basis - they don't give a toss about a few Liverpool fans.

It's about time some of you let go of your prejudices and just grew up. People smarter than you, with more experience than you, who do this type of thing as a job and have done for the majority of their lives, who know what they're talking about, have stated that the Liverpool fans are not to blame. Deal with it.
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 93 - 127
jock dock tower
September 25, 2012, 9:17pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,716
Posts Per Day: 1.38
Reputation: 81.81%
Rep Score: +55 / -12
Approval: +3,164
Quoted from ska face
I've no idea why people still persist with this idea that there were hoardes of drunk up, ticketless Liverpool fans trying to get through the gates, standing at the back of the crowd - heaving their way in, pushing, shoving, kicking, punching...

Taylor estimated in his report that the capacity of the Leppings Lane end was 10,100. From the best estimate they could get from the turnstile readings, and counting every head on photographic and video evidence, they estimated there were 9,700 fans in attendance. So this dispells the myth of the crush being caused by ticketless fans - over and above the safe ticket allocation - causing the crush.

I suggest those of you still insistent on blaming these fans take a look at this video:

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

Anyone who's ever been to a big gig knows that it doesn't take hundreds of people to be pushing and shoving at the back of a crowd to cause a massive build-up of pressure. One person walks up behind you, you take a step forward. The person in front of you follows suit. Then again. Again. At the back, you could be stood merely brushing up against the person in front of you, but at the front, the effect is a huge crush. That's what happened outside the ground - it's clear for anyone to see in the footage.

With around 15 minutes to kick off, there were still around 5000 people stood outside the Leppings Lane gates - Taylor estimated it would have taken until 3:40 for this backlog to be cleared through the aged turnstiles. The people who got in through the gate would have been stood there for a long time, there was a large build up of fans, bordering on unmanageable, from around 2:15. The people who entered through Gate C would have been stood there for a considerable length of time, so the late comers, who you are still desperately trying to pin blame on, were not to blame.

The biggest in a series of monumental intercourse-ups was the decision not to close off the tunnel to the two central pens which were already 'overfull'. An official response from SYP following the incident stated that fans were expected "to find their level", like water in a bath, once inside the ground. In other words, this meant that they couldn't give a fiddler's intercourse what happened to the fans inside the ground - and look what happened.

Had Liverpool fans been fighting on the day? Probably, but that is completely and utterly irrelevant with regards to the deaths caused by the crush. Not quite sure why Prestwich Mariner brought up the issue of Heysel, possibly because he's an idiot, but maybe the reason that Liverpool fans weren't calling for 'justice' back then may be due to the fact 14 Liverpool fans were deported, convicted and jailed at the time. Roundball...'s comments about the whole inquiry being a set up just to keep the Liverpool fans quiet is just on an entirely new level of stupidity. Over a million people marched on London to protest against an illegal war in the middle-east. They did it anyway and are still blowing brown people to dust on a daily basis - they don't give a toss about a few Liverpool fans.

It's about time some of you let go of your prejudices and just grew up. People smarter than you, with more experience than you, who do this type of thing as a job and have done for the majority of their lives, who know what they're talking about, have stated that the Liverpool fans are not to blame. Deal with it.


An excellent post, well thought out and articulated. Unfortunately it won't resonate with those who still have their own agendas.



No attempt at ethical or social seduction can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred of the Tory party. So far as I'm concerned they're lower than vermin. Aneurin Bevan.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 94 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 25, 2012, 9:28pm
Guest User
Quoted from bladerunnner


i come on here for (sometimes heated) debates..................you just want to abuse people whose opinion differs to yours= you=nazi.


Ha ha. .   Godwin's law of messageboards. .  a bit premature pmsl!

I ridiculed your post, I made you look a pill0ck. . . I didn't accuse you of mass genocide!

Daftcunt!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 95 - 127
RoboCod
September 25, 2012, 9:56pm
Barley Wine Drinker
Posts: 11,420
Posts Per Day: 1.92
Reputation: 78.76%
Rep Score: +70 / -19
Approval: +7,505
Quoted from grimps

Now of course the Police should have been able to do a better job than they did,of course the stadium should have been in a better condition and had better stewarding but some of the Liverpool fans there that day have to accept a little blame.


Do Leeds fans have to take the blame for 1987 ? And Spurs fans for '81 ? What some people don't seem to take in is the sheer unsuitability of Hillborough for this type of game. It was a deathtrap and it was simply a matter of time before this tragedy happened. After 1981 Hillsborough was not chosen again for another 6 years. When it was there was even more fencing, adding extra dangerous pens. After Leeds narrowly averted disaster 1987 it was again modified, this time into more pens.

Have a read here http://thehillsboroughdisaster.....try-1987-semi-final/
and see just how close tragedy was.
Before that, 1981 http://thehillsboroughdisaster.....cup-semi-final-1981/

Shocking and frightening stories. But in the end it's obvious the ground should have been blacklisted and never used for cup games such as this.
For those who don't read up on this stuff watch the video from 1981. Familiar and chilling scenes scenes but fans alive, pitchside, thanks to proper policing on that day.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 96 - 127
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
September 26, 2012, 12:19am
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,638
Posts Per Day: 1.35
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,658
Gold Stars: 23
Quoted from ska face
I've no idea why people still persist with this idea that there were hoardes of drunk up, ticketless Liverpool fans trying to get through the gates, standing at the back of the crowd - heaving their way in, pushing, shoving, kicking, punching...

Taylor estimated in his report that the capacity of the Leppings Lane end was 10,100. From the best estimate they could get from the turnstile readings, and counting every head on photographic and video evidence, they estimated there were 9,700 fans in attendance. So this dispells the myth of the crush being caused by ticketless fans - over and above the safe ticket allocation - causing the crush.

I suggest those of you still insistent on blaming these fans take a look at this video:

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/media/VID0002.html

Anyone who's ever been to a big gig knows that it doesn't take hundreds of people to be pushing and shoving at the back of a crowd to cause a massive build-up of pressure. One person walks up behind you, you take a step forward. The person in front of you follows suit. Then again. Again. At the back, you could be stood merely brushing up against the person in front of you, but at the front, the effect is a huge crush. That's what happened outside the ground - it's clear for anyone to see in the footage.

With around 15 minutes to kick off, there were still around 5000 people stood outside the Leppings Lane gates - Taylor estimated it would have taken until 3:40 for this backlog to be cleared through the aged turnstiles. The people who got in through the gate would have been stood there for a long time, there was a large build up of fans, bordering on unmanageable, from around 2:15. The people who entered through Gate C would have been stood there for a considerable length of time, so the late comers, who you are still desperately trying to pin blame on, were not to blame.

The biggest in a series of monumental intercourse-ups was the decision not to close off the tunnel to the two central pens which were already 'overfull'. An official response from SYP following the incident stated that fans were expected "to find their level", like water in a bath, once inside the ground. In other words, this meant that they couldn't give a fiddler's intercourse what happened to the fans inside the ground - and look what happened.

Had Liverpool fans been fighting on the day? Probably, but that is completely and utterly irrelevant with regards to the deaths caused by the crush. Not quite sure why Prestwich Mariner brought up the issue of Heysel, possibly because he's an idiot, but maybe the reason that Liverpool fans weren't calling for 'justice' back then may be due to the fact 14 Liverpool fans were deported, convicted and jailed at the time. Roundball...'s comments about the whole inquiry being a set up just to keep the Liverpool fans quiet is just on an entirely new level of stupidity. Over a million people marched on London to protest against an illegal war in the middle-east. They did it anyway and are still blowing brown people to dust on a daily basis - they don't give a toss about a few Liverpool fans.

It's about time some of you let go of your prejudices and just grew up. People smarter than you, with more experience than you, who do this type of thing as a job and have done for the majority of their lives, who know what they're talking about, have stated that the Liverpool fans are not to blame. Deal with it.


I accept all the reports about mistakes and cover ups. My point is simply that there was more to it that will never be told because nobody dare open their mouths now. The pitch was queered when the Sun was so stupid. After that nobody dare say a word other than to blame the police, the club, the FA and the politicians.

As far as I know no-one has said that there were hordes of ticketless or drunk Liverpudlians. But as you say, it does not take hordes to make trouble or cause a problem. Anyone who was a crush victim in the 1970s/80s knows that the culprits were generally a small number who could and did easily cause regular fans to become a battering ram to crush the innocent. It is beyond belief that in those days there were not some idiots at Hillsborough amongst those who rushed through those gates mindless of what carnage they might make.

We shall never know the truth. There is no video that shows all of the happenings. There are no statements from those people. And nobody is ever going to tell us about it anyway.



“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 97 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 26, 2012, 12:50am

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
What a load of bollox, how much evidence do you need? FFS! Starting to think certain posters might have been a policman or related to one at least. So defensive of those toss pots. I ain't going to explain anything about Hillsborough because I'm sure after reading some posts that it wouldn't make any difference at all. Some are being ignorant of the truth and evidence provided, and I think it's safe to say disrespectful, or maybe just out to whined others up, which is still disrespectful.


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 98 - 127
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
September 26, 2012, 9:20am
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 7,638
Posts Per Day: 1.35
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,658
Gold Stars: 23
Quoted from Gary Haddock
What a load of bollox, how much evidence do you need? FFS! Starting to think certain posters might have been a policman or related to one at least. So defensive of those toss pots. I ain't going to explain anything about Hillsborough because I'm sure after reading some posts that it wouldn't make any difference at all. Some are being ignorant of the truth and evidence provided, and I think it's safe to say disrespectful, or maybe just out to whined others up, which is still disrespectful.


The trouble is Gary, I accept all the reports and all the things said about the police - but I know from experience that there is always more to these events than official bits of paper.

Other people only believe the bits of paper and to me that is disrespectful because they don't tell the whole story.


“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 99 - 127
bladerunnner
September 26, 2012, 2:49pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from 1054


Ha ha. .   Godwin's law of messageboards. .  a bit premature pmsl!

I ridiculed your post, I made you look a pill0ck. . . I didn't accuse you of mass genocide!

Daftcunt!


oh dear,you've got me,i bow to your superior intellect.
are you on methadone? because if you are that will be someone else's fault won't it?


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 100 - 127
bladerunnner
September 26, 2012, 2:54pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from Gary Haddock
What a load of bollox, how much evidence do you need? FFS! Starting to think certain posters might have been a policman or related to one at least. So defensive of those toss pots. I ain't going to explain anything about Hillsborough because I'm sure after reading some posts that it wouldn't make any difference at all. Some are being ignorant of the truth and evidence provided, and I think it's safe to say disrespectful, or maybe just out to whined others up, which is still disrespectful.


all that's being said is that it wasn't solely down to police ineptitude and stewarding mistakes, why does everything have to be someone Else's fault? lots of idiots in this town are on smack,commit crime,and low and behold when you put them in court its NEVER down to them is it? its  either their enviroment or the company they keep...................................why can't they grow some and admit some responsibility?
i must say some people seem very "anti-police" on here,are they not here to protect you and sort out your problems? or have you been in trouble ?


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 101 - 127
PrestwichMariner
September 26, 2012, 3:14pm
Exile
Posts: 771
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Reputation: 84.77%
Rep Score: +3 / 0
Location: Prestwich
Approval: +281
Gold Stars: 5
I would comment further but as according to Mr Bumhole I'm an idiot I wont waste my time. I must say that when I got my BA Hons in History & Politics my lecturers didn't think I was an idiot, it just shows how out of touch I am with modern scociety and the views of the highbrow intellectuals now a days.


Wearing badges is not enough in days like these!
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 102 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 26, 2012, 5:29pm
Guest User
Quoted from bladerunnner


oh dear,you've got me,i bow to your superior intellect.
are you on methadone? because if you are that will be someone else's fault won't it?


You've lost me! You are suggesting I am on a heroin substitute . . . Why?

You have auggested I am a nazi, I make you look a pillock then accuse me of being a recovering addict and I fail to take responaibility for this!

What a wally you are! Superior intellect? Hell yeah!

Pillock!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 103 - 127
bladerunnner
September 26, 2012, 7:45pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from 1054


You've lost me! You are suggesting I am on a heroin substitute . . . Why?

You have auggested I am a nazi, I make you look a pillock then accuse me of being a recovering addict and I fail to take responaibility for this!

What a wally you are! Superior intellect? Hell yeah!

Pillock!


yes a pillock i am..............................................but at least a pillock who can use the spellcheck function? now go back and edit your last post as the grammar was truly shocking.   b.t.w "hell yeah"  where is that from your one direction fan book? i bet you are one of these "towie fags" that mince around  town in 3/4  length  pantaloons, gay plimsolls , and a Herr flick barnet? im getting the word "nonce"


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 104 - 127
bladerunnner
September 26, 2012, 7:48pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from PrestwichMariner
I would comment further but as according to Mr Bumhole I'm an idiot I wont waste my time. I must say that when I got my BA Hons in History & Politics my lecturers didn't think I was an idiot, it just shows how out of touch I am with modern scociety and the views of the highbrow intellectuals now a days.


to be honest he's giving me a boner! i would like to rape his little starfish.


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 105 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 26, 2012, 8:00pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Quoted from bladerunnner


yes a pillock i am..............................................but at least a pillock who can use the spellcheck function? now go back and edit your last post as the grammar was truly shocking.   b.t.w "hell yeah"  where is that from your one direction fan book? i bet you are one of these "towie fags" that mince around  town in 3/4  length  pantaloons, gay plimsolls , and a Herr flick barnet? im getting the word "nonce"


^^^ Talk about bad grammer.  


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 106 - 127
Wrawby_Mariner
September 26, 2012, 8:14pm
Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 9,696
Posts Per Day: 1.72
Reputation: 79.42%
Rep Score: +50 / -13
Location: Wrawby
Approval: +862
Gold Stars: 6
Quoted from Gary Haddock


^^^ Talk about bad grammer.  


Grammar
Logged Offline
Private Message Skype Skype
Reply: 107 - 127
Gary Haddock
September 26, 2012, 8:15pm

Neither above nor beneath
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,540
Posts Per Day: 0.52
Reputation: 88.22%
Rep Score: +44 / -5
Location: Grimsby Town
Approval: +6
Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner


Grammar


Oops.  


Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 108 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 26, 2012, 11:57pm
Guest User
Quoted from bladerunnner


yes a pillock i am..............................................but at least a pillock who can use the spellcheck function? now go back and edit your last post as the grammar was truly shocking.   b.t.w "hell yeah"  where is that from your one direction fan book? i bet you are one of these "towie fags" that mince around  town in 3/4  length  pantaloons, gay plimsolls , and a Herr flick barnet? im getting the word "nonce"

You have 'progressed' from calling me a nazi, to calling me a junkie to criticising my grammar to good old fashioned homophobia!

The only question left is 'why the fu(k am I replying to you?'
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 109 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 27, 2012, 12:10am
Guest User
Quoted from PrestwichMariner
I would comment further but as according to Mr Bumhole I'm an idiot I wont waste my time. I must say that when I got my BA Hons in History & Politics my lecturers didn't think I was an idiot, it just shows how out of touch I am with modern scociety and the views of the highbrow intellectuals now a days.


I didn't call you an idiot, I called you a freak.  You claimed justice hadn't been served for Heysel, I pointed out that it had been!

Whether you scraped a 2:2 at a former polytechnic/cycling proficiency test centre masquerading as a university is irrelevant.  If you go in for higher level academia (as I have) you will realise that responding to challenge and thorough balanced analysis are key  skills you will need!

Your "I went to yooniversity" response says far more about your intellect than a shitarse degree that most people could do buying no books, trying to get laid and smoking half oz a week!

Good luck in the job market lah. .  . Pmsl!

Logged
E-mail
Reply: 110 - 127
GYinScuntland
September 27, 2012, 12:19am

Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,597
Posts Per Day: 0.49
Reputation: 78.29%
Rep Score: +21 / -6
Location: Ashby, Scunthorpe
Approval: +3,210
Gold Stars: 97
Quoted from bladerunnner


yes a pillock i am..............................................but at least a pillock who can use the spellcheck function? now go back and edit your last post as the grammar was truly shocking.   b.t.w "hell yeah"  where is that from your one direction fan book? i bet you are one of these "towie fags" that mince around  town in 3/4  length  pantaloons, gay plimsolls , and a Herr flick barnet? im getting the word "nonce"


To be fair, that Helga that was always after him was as fit as a fit thing from number one fit street, in fitby, in fitshire, fitland.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 111 - 127
grimps
September 27, 2012, 8:31am
balderdash
Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,412
Posts Per Day: 0.78
Reputation: 57.6%
Rep Score: +21 / -19
Approval: +4,994
Gold Stars: 46
Quoted from PrestwichMariner
I would comment further but as according to Mr Bumhole I'm an idiot I wont waste my time. I must say that when I got my BA Hons in History & Politics my lecturers didn't think I was an idiot, it just shows how out of touch I am with modern scociety and the views of the highbrow intellectuals now a days.


It does make me laugh when people use their education as a badge of honor to try and win an argument ,having a couple of degree's means nowt nowadays
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 112 - 127
bladerunnner
September 27, 2012, 7:31pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from 1054

You have 'progressed' from calling me a nazi, to calling me a junkie to criticising my grammar to good old fashioned homophobia!

The only question left is 'why the fu(k am I replying to you?'


if you weren't on here replying to my inane rants you would only be sat in your squalid pit in grimsby [removed])

from reading your comments on other people on here all you seem to do is take potshots at other posters?,at least when i have a go at them its to get a reaction,you just can't help yourself, its not as though you come across particularly clever or witty is it? if you consider yourself that superior to people then why feel the need to be on here morning,noon,and night? i think there may be some type of personality disorder going on with you. p.s. nice to see the spelling has improved,you found the spellcheck button then dullard?


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 113 - 127
bladerunnner
September 27, 2012, 7:37pm

Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,616
Posts Per Day: 0.31
Reputation: 71.22%
Rep Score: +22 / -10
Quoted from 1054


I didn't call you an idiot, I called you a freak.  You claimed justice hadn't been served for Heysel, I pointed out that it had been!

Whether you scraped a 2:2 at a former polytechnic/cycling proficiency test centre masquerading as a university is irrelevant.  If you go in for higher level academia (as I have) you will realise that responding to challenge and thorough balanced analysis are key  skills you will need!

Your "I went to yooniversity" response says far more about your intellect than a shitarse degree that most people could do buying no books, trying to get laid and smoking half oz a week!

Good luck in the job market lah. .  . Pmsl!



what do you do for a living then Einstein? the only people that deride degrees are the people too thick to gain one.


irony................its a bit like brassy,only made from iron!   (baldrick,blackadder)
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 114 - 127
137
September 28, 2012, 8:37am
Guest User
(Back to Hillsborough...)

Given that the ground was clearly not up to standard, aren't the F.A. partly responsible for scheduling the semi-final at a venue unfit for the purpose?
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 115 - 127
PrestwichMariner
September 28, 2012, 8:52am
Exile
Posts: 771
Posts Per Day: 0.14
Reputation: 84.77%
Rep Score: +3 / 0
Location: Prestwich
Approval: +281
Gold Stars: 5
Good luck in the job market lah. .  . Pmsl!

Don't need it - Ive been a succesful insurance broker for the last 25 years!


Wearing badges is not enough in days like these!
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 116 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 28, 2012, 3:47pm
Guest User
Quoted from PrestwichMariner
Good luck in the job market lah. .  . Pmsl!

Don't need it - Ive been a succesful insurance broker for the last 25 years!


If you have had that much success, why revert to telling people about your shitarse degree from nowhere polytechnic to evidence your non-thickness!!!  I note you didn't challenge my suggestion that you got a 2:2 from a former cylcling proficiency centre masquerading as a university. . . . . Nail, Head. . . . BANG!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 117 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 28, 2012, 3:50pm
Guest User
Quoted from bladerunnner


what do you do for a living then Einstein? the only people that deride degrees are the people too thick to gain one.


The only perosn who would reply like that is someone too thick to read. . . . As I said in my post, I have academic qualifications beyond first degree level, I am educated to Masters level.  What do I do for a job? None of your godddam business!!!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 118 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 28, 2012, 3:54pm
Guest User
Quoted from bladerunnner


if you weren't on here replying to my inane rants you would only be sat in your squalid pit in grimsby

from reading your comments on other people on here all you seem to do is take potshots at other posters?,at least when i have a go at them its to get a reaction,you just can't help yourself, its not as though you come across particularly clever or witty is it? if you consider yourself that superior to people then why feel the need to be on here morning,noon,and night? i think there may be some type of personality disorder going on with you. p.s. nice to see the spelling has improved,you found the spellcheck button then dullard?


So far, you have called me:

A nazi, a junkie, gay, a paedophile, thick, a dullard, a w@nker. . . . . I actually challenegd your post on the subject of the thread, you have resorted to the insults of a junior school playground. . .

and you reckon I come on here to have a pop at people!!!

What a wally you are!!!

Logged
E-mail
Reply: 119 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 28, 2012, 4:18pm
Guest User
Quoted from bladerunnner


if you weren't on here replying to my inane rants you would only be sat in your squalid pit in grimsby flicking through the mothercare  catalogue with pen!s at the  ready?



For someone to actually think of that they need to be pretty fu(ked up!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 120 - 127
barralad
September 28, 2012, 7:34pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,792
Posts Per Day: 2.33
Reputation: 81.03%
Rep Score: +86 / -20
Approval: +9,195
Gold Stars: 121
I come back to this thread to see if anything more of note has been added to what was one of the best threads on here. All I find is childish behaviour from RBOH and Bladerunner. Having considered that they actually might be the same person and dismissed the idea can I ask for the sake of the thread that you get a room?


The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.

Joseph Joubert.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 121 - 127
137
September 28, 2012, 7:37pm
Guest User
Quoted from barralad
I come back to this thread to see if anything more of note has been added to what was one of the best threads on here. All I find is childish behaviour from RBOH and Bladerunner. Having considered that they actually might be the same person and dismissed the idea can I ask for the sake of the thread that you get a room?


Well said, sir.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 122 - 127
roundballovalhole
September 28, 2012, 7:46pm
Guest User
Quoted from barralad
I come back to this thread to see if anything more of note has been added to what was one of the best threads on here. All I find is childish behaviour from RBOH and Bladerunner. Having considered that they actually might be the same person and dismissed the idea can I ask for the sake of the thread that you get a room?


At what point have i been childish (on this thread). I challenged someone on a fact about heysel. . . Then defended myself against a tirade of disgusting accusations about my character!  I have  reported the suggestion of paedophilia to the mods. Not only does this breach fishy rules but is also completely libellous! I have on nany occassions been childish on this forum but I wouldn't be on this thread as I have some moral standards!



Logged
E-mail
Reply: 123 - 127
NorfolkImp
September 28, 2012, 9:56pm
Brandy Drinker
Posts: 2,841
Posts Per Day: 0.49
Reputation: 59.39%
Rep Score: +10 / -10
Approval: -493
Gold Stars: 11
Quoted from 1054


The only perosn who would reply like that is someone too thick to read. . . . As I said in my post, I have academic qualifications beyond first degree level, I am educated to Masters level.  What do I do for a job? None of your godddam business!!!


But its only £20 per hour, I recall you bragging about it here on Fishy not so long back  







Logged
Private Message
Reply: 124 - 127
The Yard Dog
September 28, 2012, 10:20pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,906
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 84.69%
Rep Score: +14 / -2
Location: Cleethorpes
Approval: +3,443
Gold Stars: 74
Hi
I am in the process of reading the whole of the Hillsborough Panel Report (386 pages). Currently on the 2nd chapter (p87), cannot believe some of the findings.  Like the judge took the high unusual decision , if the David Duckenfield or Bernard Murray were found guilty of manslaughter neither would go to PRISON. Also when the jury found Bernard Murray not guilty, the judge jdischarged the jury without reaching a verdict on David Duckenfield

Extract from part of the report is below

Private prosecution

1.254 In August 1998 the Hillsborough Family Support Group initiated a private prosecution
against David Duckenfield and Bernard Murray. It was the culmination of a decade’s
campaigning to establish criminal liability and to access key documents, witness statements
and personal ‘body files’ on each of the deceased compiled by the police investigators.

1.255 On 16 February 2000 the former officers were committed for trial, charged with
manslaughter and misconduct in a public office. Mr Duckenfield was also charged with
misconduct ‘arising from an admitted lie told by him to the effect that the [exit] gates had
been forced open by Liverpool fans’.

1.256 The judge, Mr Justice Hooper, summarised the prosecution case for manslaughter
as the failure by the officers to prevent a crush on the terraces and to divert fans from the
tunnel. The risk of serious injury, therefore, had been foreseeable. The ‘apparent’ defence
case was that neither officer ‘in the situation in which they found themselves, thought about
closing off the tunnel or foresaw the risk of serious injury in the pen if they did not do so’.

1.257 The judge noted the ‘enduring grief’ suffered by the bereaved. It was compounded
by ‘a deep seated and obviously genuine grievance that those thought responsible’ had
not been prosecuted or ‘even disciplined’. Both defendants, however, ‘must be suffering a
considerable amount of strain’.

1.258 [/b]While committing Mr Duckenfield and Mr Murray for trial he took a ‘highly unusual
course’ to ‘reduce to a significant extent the anguish being suffered’. He stated that if
the former officers were found to be guilty of manslaughter, neither would face a prison
sentence. This extraordinary assurance could not be disclosed until after the trial.

1.274 After 16 hours of discussion the jury was instructed that a majority verdict would be
accepted. Over five hours later, Mr Murray was acquitted. The jury was discharged without
reaching a verdict on Mr Duckenfield and the judge refused the application for a re-trial.[b]
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 125 - 127
GrimRob
September 28, 2012, 10:25pm

Moderator
Posts: 12,630
Posts Per Day: 2.12
Reputation: 69.92%
Rep Score: +76 / -34
Approval: +13,343
Gold Stars: 113
Quoted from 1054


At what point have i been childish (on this thread). I challenged someone on a fact about heysel. . . Then defended myself against a tirade of disgusting accusations about my character!  I have  reported the suggestion of paedophilia to the mods. Not only does this breach fishy rules but is also completely libellous! I have on nany occassions been childish on this forum but I wouldn't be on this thread as I have some moral standards!



That bit has been removed. This has gone well off topic. Put your handbags away everyone or the thread will be locked.



'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

Logged Offline
Site Private Message Skype
Reply: 126 - 127
semilapsedmariner
September 29, 2012, 6:23am

Champagne Drinker
Posts: 2,149
Posts Per Day: 0.36
Reputation: 76.18%
Rep Score: +5 / -2
Location: GY
Approval: +0
About time to grimrob. talk about thread creep.


Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play.
It is bound up with hatred,jealousy,boastfullness,
disregard of all rules and a sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence;
In other words it is war without the shooting.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 127 - 127
13 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 All Recommend Thread
Print

Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Classic Threads › Finally justice for the hillsborough victims

Thread Rating
There is currently no rating for this thread
 

Back to top of page

This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.