There’s 12 pages of this on the non-football board.
If you don’t support this, then you can’t say anything about players refusing to wear a poppy or even acknowledging any minutes silence for any cause.
Simply trying to guage the support for taking a knee via an easy to view poll. As I don't believe it's a cut and dried as media outlets like Sky Sports News / TalkSport will have you believe.
All you’ll do is gauge the opinion of us 100-or-so sad acts who post on here, and even then it’ll only be those who are arsed to vote in this thread. How many town fans are there - 3000, 15000, 30000, more? All over the country, all over the globe, all ages and all sensibilities. So no matter what this poll turns up, it counts for less than nothing, which is potentially a good thing considering the number of black players in the squad, their families, friends and any potential players who might be looking at joining the club in January.
Thing is, it’s easier to shout down a silent protest than support it.
You need to take a long look at yourself if you are offended by someone making a non violent protest about something that they feel deeply for.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
Its ridiculous, i wont bend the knee for anyone, and while were on this daft subject, lets get the golliwog back on the Robertsons jam jars. I watched The Dambusters film the other day for the umpteenth time, and theyve replaced the dogs name black person with just dog or boy, whats the world coming to. * geez, you cant even say the dogs name on here.
Its ridiculous, i wont bend the knee for anyone, and while were on this daft subject, lets get the golliwog back on the Robertsons jam jars. I watched The Dambusters film the other day for the umpteenth time, and theyve replaced the dogs name black person with just dog or boy, whats the world coming to. * geez, you cant even say the dogs name on here.
I honestly can't tell if this is a wind up or you are actually being serious.
Simply trying to guage the support for taking a knee via an easy to view poll. As I don't believe it's a cut and dried as media outlets like Sky Sports News / TalkSport will have you believe.
But it's not as simple as a cut and dry yes or no. I support equality and I know that is what the players are trying to represent. I do not support the BLM movement and that is where it comes from. So I both do and don't support it in the same breath. Either way, booing players that want to make a stand for something they believe in takes a special type of anus.
There’s 12 pages of this on the non-football board.
If you don’t support this, then you can’t say anything about players refusing to wear a poppy or even acknowledging any minutes silence for any cause.
Cobblers. Poppies are once a year, a minutes silence is one minute. This lark has be going on for so long it will soon be counter productive especially when the fans are back in numbers. The only reason it hasn’t been more divisive is because it has taken advantage of the virus rules.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Cobblers. Poppies are once a year, a minutes silence is one minute. This lark has be going on for so long it will soon be counter productive especially when the fans are back in numbers. The only reason it hasn’t been more divisive is because it has taken advantage of the virus rules.
Quite disturbing that you’re pining for the return of crowds only in the hope that they’ll intimidate players so much that they’ll be afraid to make a 10-second silent protest against racial discrimination.
Cobblers. Poppies are once a year, a minutes silence is one minute. This lark has be going on for so long it will soon be counter productive especially when the fans are back in numbers. The only reason it hasn’t been more divisive is because it has taken advantage of the virus rules.
Just playing Devil’s advocate but how long is too long?? Is wearing a poppy 102 years after the end of the war long enough??
Panic on the streets of Carlisle, Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
a 10-second silent protest against racial discrimination.
When even the Guardian reports the BLM movement has caused an increase in racial tension, then I think it’s fair to say the protest has failed.... unproductive empty gestures time to move on.
When even the Guardian reports the BLM movement has caused an increase in racial tension, then I think it’s fair to say the protest has failed.... unproductive empty gestures time to move on.
What would you do?
Racism is still endemic in English football and wider society. Something needs to be done but I agree that 'taking the knee' doesn't seem to be working judging by many of the posts I see on the Fishy
Racism is still endemic in English football and wider society. Something needs to be done but I agree that 'taking the knee' doesn't seem to be working judging by many of the posts I see on the Fishy
My answer would be to report any abuse, then through the normal channels of the police and the courts make sure the offenders are hit hard.
There are equality laws for a reason, and this applies to football as in any other walk of life.
When even the Guardian reports the BLM movement has caused an increase in racial tension, then I think it’s fair to say the protest has failed.... unproductive empty gestures time to move on.
Where are the tensions coming from?
For example, when a group of young, peaceful protestors (a decent proportion, of not majority, women) decide to silently walk along Cleethorpes prom then stand on the beach for a few speeches, who was it that ended up on the front of the paper?
It was the group of largely middle-aged blokes who’d spent most of the day on the drink, then decided to fight with the police, shout and swear at the protestors and throw eggs at the women and kids.
Who needs to adjust their behaviour in that situation?
The BLM started out as something to try and bring everyone closer together but its now seen imo as something that has dragged on far too long and tbh i find it quite offensive that if you don't take a knee its deemed as racist.
The shelf life has expired and millions of lives are taken wrongly every year so something that was supposed to bring us closer is now becoming a thing that's doing the opposite, i believe all lives matter and black lives mean just as much as white asian Hispanic etc so its time imo to move on and stop forcing people to make a choice.
I've no problem people taking the knee, my objection is the clenched fist. I remember the 1972 Olympics (i think, i'm sure someone will correct me) where black power came to the fore, the idea is equal rights isn't it?
I've no problem people taking the knee, my objection is the clenched fist. I remember the 1972 Olympics (i think, i'm sure someone will correct me) where black power came to the fore, the idea is equal rights isn't it?
How unfortunate that you choose to spend your time telling strangers that you're opposed to the clenched fist and not that you are opposed to racism.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
What I find ironic, is that all those that were booing at Millwall or Colchester, or others defending them .... have of course read and understood Das Kapital cover to cover?
What I find ironic, is that all those that were booing at Millwall or Colchester, or others defending them .... have of course read and understood Das Kapital cover to cover?
More likely to have read Mein Kampf
Panic on the streets of Carlisle, Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
Absolute rubbish. The poppy is important. This racist blm isn't
Why is the poppy important though? To me it remembers the glory of war which is one thing wars are not. Let’s work as hard to prevent there ever needing to be a need for poppies.
As for the point about it being different to taking a knee, it’s not really is it? Both are just gestures aimed at things that have already happened. Only one of those is aimed at changing the future.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Yes to a simple taking the knee (with some of our squad its the only time they get their knees muddy) but a definite NO if it's accompanied by a clenched fist salute
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
It puts the players in a difficult position if they don't agree with it. They'll be total pariahs if they don't take the knee. Yes it only takes seconds but it forces them to "conform". Singing national anthems (another political statement, especially ours, swearing allegiance to the monarchy) has always been optional but it's a lot less visible.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
How can any white people even begin to comprehend the amount of prejudice that still exist in Britain today.Anyone who feels threated by B.L.M are part of the problem,
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
The poppy is a symbol of honouring those who gave their lives for our benefit. The Poppy honours white,black, with no distinction between them. FFS don't bring dishonour to these brave souls by comparing it to just BLM. All lives matter.
The poppy is a symbol of honouring those who gave their lives for our benefit. The Poppy honours white,black, with no distinction between them. FFS don't bring dishonour to these brave souls by comparing it to just BLM. All lives matter.
The people who dishonour the generations that gave their lives for freedom of speech are those who don't allow others freedom of speech no matter how unpopular their views may be.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
The poppy is a symbol of honouring those who gave their lives for our benefit. The Poppy honours white,black, with no distinction between them. FFS don't bring dishonour to these brave souls by comparing it to just BLM. All lives matter.
The poppy has become much more political than that though and much less about honouring those that gave their lives in mostly unjustified wars (WW2being an obvious exception). If you really want to honour their memory surely it should be about preventing more young people from being sent overseas to die. As for comparing it to The Knee, that is entirely up to anyone to make an argument for or against.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Well, one thing is clear; something which was intended to unite in pursuit of a common goal is in fact hugely divisive. 80 votes in, and we have an almost 50/50 split, which I find quite remarkable.
The issue for me is that there seems to be some confusion as to what taking the knee actually means. Is it an anti-racism gesture, or an act in support of the Black Lives Matter movement specifically? I imagine its entirely possible to be averse to the modus operandi of the movement itself whilst also deploring racism in all its forms.
Taking issue with BLM is a very different matter to taking issue with attempts to eradicate racism and improve racial equality in this country. And whilst the problem is almost certainly not as endemic in the UK as it is in the United States and parts of Europe, I'm not sure measuring ourselves against outstandingly bad examples is a particularly useful way to quantify the scale of the problem.
The issue is far more subtle than police killing black people. I'm sure there are far fewer people comfortable with making comments of a racist nature today than would have been the case 10, 20 or 30 years ago. But to what degree have views changed, and to what degree have they simply been internalised by the shift in what's considered socially acceptable.
And it runs way deeper than that too, deep into the unconscious mind. Stereotypes that have been ingrained unwittingly over many years. I thought the study in the summer was interesting, in which it showed that football commentators were far less likely to praise a black player's intelligence compared to their white counterparts, but far more likely to praise their athletic capabilities. The comments were made in a complementary context, but simply conformed to those stereotypes. That black people are workhorses, strong, resourceful labourers, and little more.
There's a long way to go in achieving some kind of ethnic parity in this country. It will take generations to reach anything close to that, if its even possible at all. To rid our collective minds of those unconscious prejudices and biases. To reach a stage where people are as blind to whether someone has white or black skin as they are today whether they have brown or blonde hair.
To begin to solve the problem there has to be a conversation, and at the very least taking the knee has played a part in starting one. If it's now reaching the point where it's creating more division, more conflict and giving those who either hold racist outlooks or simply cannot acknowledge the problem exists a forum to promote their views then perhaps its time to look at other ways to keep the discussion going.
Of course it should be stopped. Twenty two virtue-signalling over paid Prima-Donna's feeling better about themselves as a result has no place in football. Sport and politics should not mix.
You need to change society, this act serves no purpose and offers no value. Its about substance not gestures.
I also think that kneeling is a gesture of servitude and has no place in football.
Thankfully a poll conducted last week following Boris's statement that he would not take the knee suggested that only 13% disagreed with him, (I think most of them are on this site) !
So to sum up, get on with the football and treat "EVERYONE" with the respect they deserve.
Of course it should be stopped. Twenty two virtue-signalling over paid Prima-Donna's feeling better about themselves as a result has no place in football. Sport and politics should not mix.
You need to change society, this act serves no purpose and offers no value. Its about substance not gestures.
I also think that kneeling is a gesture of servitude and has no place in football.
Thankfully a poll conducted last week following Boris's statement that he would not take the knee suggested that only 13% disagreed with him, (I think most of them are on this site) !
So to sum up, get on with the football and treat "EVERYONE" with the respect they deserve.
Yeah! That daft bint who threw herself under the kings horse made no difference at all. Just an empty gesture. And buggered up a decent race.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
The 13% who can think for themselves? That don't believe The Daily Mail is gospel?
Or is it 13% of white men who aren't scared sh*tless by the idea of British society changing and that might just mean that they'll lose a bit of their privilege?
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Location: Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle...
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Quoted from 3610
I agree with parts of this- especially being anti BLM but at same time pro anti racism. . However don’t get fooled into research with lazy conclusions like the commentators one. Maybe ....... that they are just reporting what they are seeing. Black players are more athletic. Just look at the Olympic hundred metres. There are genetic differences. Just like there are differences between sexes. Commentating on this is not racist or sexist.
FFS!
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
The 13% who can think for themselves? That don't believe The Daily Mail is gospel?
Or is it 13% of white men who aren't scared sh*tless by the idea of British society changing and that might just mean that they'll lose a bit of their privilege?
Why is it that the only people who talk about white privilege are "WHITE LIBERALS" ?
For example, when a group of young, peaceful protestors (a decent proportion, of not majority, women) decide to silently walk along Cleethorpes prom then stand on the beach for a few speeches, who was it that ended up on the front of the paper?
It was the group of largely middle-aged blokes who’d spent most of the day on the drink, then decided to fight with the police, shout and swear at the protestors and throw eggs at the women and kids.
Who needs to adjust their behaviour in that situation?
Wasn’t this just after BLM had run riot in London? looting shops and attacking police officers? Then finished off with the desecration of one of our greatest war hero’s.
Why is it that the only people who talk about white privilege are "WHITE LIBERALS" ?
They're not, it's just that the only places you read it or watch it are when it's "white liberals" being quoted (or usually misquoted) and the phrase "white liberals" is being used as a term of scorn or outright abuse.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
For those who think town players should continue taking the knee when do you think the right time for them to stop will be?
When they want to.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
You are seriously going to stand by the sentence "Black players are more athletic"? You can't see how preposterous that statement is?
It’s not how it was meant. It was meant to be a suggestion they could have been. And if you look at other explosive sports they seem to dominate? It was meant to be a suggestion. Not an actual fact. Deleted anyway.
I can’t imagine very many footballers are communists or anarchists. All of this kneeling is quite separate from any political party or official group.
There is also no threat from communists or anarchists in this country. Communist Political parties have existed in this country for a hundred years, at the peak of their membership the biggest only reached 60,000 and that was in 1945. The current British Communist party has around 800 members.
If the players and refs want to do it then it’s up to them but to me all lives matter.
Similar to clapping the NHS on a Thursday night you don’t have to do something indefinitely to make a point.
Personally think the players and officials should park this for a while and move the focus on raising awareness that the game and society in general needs to embrace greater diversity.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Wasn’t this just after BLM had run riot in London? looting shops and attacking police officers? Then finished off with the desecration of one of our greatest war hero’s.
So they decided to protest the attacking of police by...attacking the police?
For those who think town players should continue taking the knee when do you think the right time for them to stop will be?
Right now. Virtue signalling at its finest and won't achieve a thing. To be labelled being part of the problem if anyone disagrees with taking the knee is laughable. I want it gone from football and any sport for that matter. The BLM are a political movement that has no place in sporting events.
Completely support. If your offended by players taking a stance against racism then seriously take a look at yourself
This just goes to prove how decisive BLM are. I have no problems with any initiative to stop racism in sport and support them wholeheartedly but I can't support this in the name of BLM a political group intent on division, the overthrow of capitalism the defunding of the police and open borders. That's what I call a political group. What about the player with the Black power salute while others were taking the knee, what a male masturbators. When we get back in BP I will not boo but I will turn my back.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
This just goes to prove how decisive BLM are. I have no problems with any initiative to stop racism in sport and support them wholeheartedly but I can't support this in the name of BLM a political group intent on division, the overthrow of capitalism the defunding of the police and open borders. That's what I call a political group. What about the player with the Black power salute while others were taking the knee, what a male masturbators. When we get back in BP I will not boo but I will turn my back.
So to make your opinion known you will exercise your right to demonstrate in a peaceful manner and in return you will expect your protest to be noted and that you won't be persecuted for expressing your right of free speech.
Fancy that.......
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
It’s not how it was meant. It was meant to be a suggestion they could have been. And if you look at other explosive sports they seem to dominate? It was meant to be a suggestion. Not an actual fact. Deleted anyway.
There is of course something in the fact that black people appear better suited to sports which require explosive power for example. The last white man to win a 100m Olympic gold medal was in 1980, and since then there hasn't been a single white athlete making the 8 man line-up in the final.
Similarly, the last four men's marathon world record holders were not only black but specifically Kenyan. Evidently, genetics plays a big role in athletic capability, or at least at an elite level. There are of course many white men who are more athletic than many black men, just as there are many women who are more athletic than many men.
Is it racist to point this out, even inversely so, that perhaps white people are on average athletically inferior to black people? I don't think it is, if there is strong evidence to back up such a theory.
The problem is that historic prejudices still prevail, often unconsciously, that black people are for instance less intelligent than white people, or more predisposed to commit crime. This, to the very best of my knowledge, has never been robustly backed up with evidence because it isn't true. Of course, there are fewer black people in higher education and senior management positions etc. and a higher percentage of the black population convicted of crimes however much of this is due to present day societal factors brought about through historic stereotyping and economic disadvantages.
These are the things that need to change in order to reach some kind of harmony and equality in our world. Yes, the odd idiot indulging in racist taunts and gestures is moronic and absolutely needs stamping out, but it's the tip of the iceberg really. There's a lot of history to be undone.
So to make your opinion known you will exercise your right to demonstrate in a peaceful manner and in return you will expect your protest to be noted and that you won't be persecuted for expressing your right of free speech.
Fancy that.......
Yes thats correct BLM have there views, I don't agree with them but they have every right to air those views as have I.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
QPR have informed Millwall that a selection of their players wish to take the knee as a way of showing their support for anti-discrimination efforts – a gesture which the club respects and it firmly asks all those in attendance to do likewise
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Simply trying to guage the support for taking a knee via an easy to view poll. As I don't believe it's a cut and dried as media outlets like Sky Sports News / TalkSport will have you believe.
I'm happy for the players to take the knee if they want to It's a choice
People need to look at the origins of BLM and realise why it was formed to bring attention to the police in USA murdering black people which is still happening now and been condoned by the Tyrant that is Trump.
Would any of you like to be abused mentally and physically at work every week like the black players of the 70-80"s remember the Story of John Barnes returning from Brazil in 84 returning on the plane to be told by some scumbag racist his Goal didn't count because he was black and not English.
The bended knee is a new form of expression that racism still exists may be a new form of expression is needed and taking the knee should stop not because it's wrong but because it's served it's purpose
To deal with the poll question first, I would wholeheartedly support our players in taking the knee and, frankly, I am dismayed that so many respondents apparently do not share that view. But it seems to me that there are two issues which have made the gesture far more controversial than it ever needed to be.
The first, and most fundamental, is the central message of the Black Lives Matter movement and the willingness of its detractors to either ignore or distort it. We should remember the horrific death in the United States that was the catalyst for the movement in the first place and reflect too on cases in our own country where people have unnecessarily suffered because of their skin colour. To say that "all lives matter" is to miss the point. They should, of course, but history tells us that black lives have not mattered as much as others and, whether we want to acknowledge it or not, that remains an issue today.
Nor should we be distracted by the arguments of those who claim they oppose Black Lives Matter on political grounds. It is not a political stance to believe that people should be treated equally regardless of the colour of their skin. We ought to be able to disagree with ideas expressed or actions carried out in its name, without opposing the core message. But to boo the gesture or to say one opposes the movement on the basis of one's own perception of its politics risks an implied endorsement of racism and we should all reflect on that.
The second issue is the length of time over which sportspeople have been taking the knee and the question of whether the message has been blunted in that period. After reading Les Ferdinand's views on the subject in particular, I did wonder whether it had run its course. But, last Saturday, I attended the Portsmouth v King's Lynn FA Cup tie for work and saw the two teams take the knee before kickoff. It was the first time I had seen it in person, rather than on television, and it made me think about the issue in a way that I probably hadn't done since I first saw it after the Premier League's resumption. That experience, together with the weekend's events, leads me to the conclusion that the message needs to be reinforced. If our players can make even a small contribution to that, then I, for one, would applaud them for doing so.
For those who think town players should continue taking the knee when do you think the right time for them to stop will be?
When those who want to stop can do so without incurring the displeasure of those team mates who want to continue and won't be afraid of being pilloried because they have stopped.
On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries
To deal with the poll question first, I would wholeheartedly support our players in taking the knee and, frankly, I am dismayed that so many respondents apparently do not share that view. But it seems to me that there are two issues which have made the gesture far more controversial than it ever needed to be.
The first, and most fundamental, is the central message of the Black Lives Matter movement and the willingness of its detractors to either ignore or distort it. We should remember the horrific death in the United States that was the catalyst for the movement in the first place and reflect too on cases in our own country where people have unnecessarily suffered because of their skin colour. To say that "all lives matter" is to miss the point. They should, of course, but history tells us that black lives have not mattered as much as others and, whether we want to acknowledge it or not, that remains an issue today.
Nor should we be distracted by the arguments of those who claim they oppose Black Lives Matter on political grounds. It is not a political stance to believe that people should be treated equally regardless of the colour of their skin. We ought to be able to disagree with ideas expressed or actions carried out in its name, without opposing the core message. But to boo the gesture or to say one opposes the movement on the basis of one's own perception of its politics risks an implied endorsement of racism and we should all reflect on that.
The second issue is the length of time over which sportspeople have been taking the knee and the question of whether the message has been blunted in that period. After reading Les Ferdinand's views on the subject in particular, I did wonder whether it had run its course. But, last Saturday, I attended the Portsmouth v King's Lynn FA Cup tie for work and saw the two teams take the knee before kickoff. It was the first time I had seen it in person, rather than on television, and it made me think about the issue in a way that I probably hadn't done since I first saw it after the Premier League's resumption. That experience, together with the weekend's events, leads me to the conclusion that the message needs to be reinforced. If our players can make even a small contribution to that, then I, for one, would applaud them for doing so.
BLM is a registered political party. Therefore taking the knee in support of them is political.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
BLM is a registered political party. Therefore taking the knee in support of them is political.
Registered with whom? The Electoral Commission? There are 52 pages of applications for political party registration published on its website for 2020. None of them are for Black Lives Matter or BLM. Nor were there any last year or the year before that. And Black Lives Matter's UK website claims that it is not a member of nor affiliated with any political party. So, no, taking the knee isn't a political gesture.
I go to the match to support my club and it’s players and voice that support as much as possible in hope (I know sometimes blind!) that we might actually win a game.
If they want to take the knee then I don’t feel it’s appropriate to voice my opinion on them, as I want them running through brick walls for me and my club not drunk off because a few choose to boo them before the start of the match. Getting behind our players helps win games and they need our support now more than ever!!!
I’m neither for or against the knee however I do wonder if it’s actually making a difference and changing things?? It seems to be a lip service gesture but what has it changed? The world is still a big bad place at times with racial hatred being fuelled every second of everyday against all faiths and is not limited to the skin colour.
If a person wants to do something that is small and silent to make a point, whatever it may be, who are we to stop it?
Those folk saying keeping politics out of football...have a word, football, along with many things is highly politicised and will forever be that way.
When I first started work my manager said to be never get into an arguement with stupid people.A very good piece of advice. They are so bigoted they are beyond reason.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
This perfectly shows that whatever the rights and wrongs of BLM it is a disaster to bring football into it. Anything political will always divide the fan base. We all have different views of the world but the minute we put on our replica shirts or bobble hats we should pull in the same direction.
I saw a statement from Milwall last night basically saying get with the programme or else. They and many people seem to have lost track of why they exist - because of the fans, for the fans of all races, creeds, colours political beliefs.
How can any white people even begin to comprehend the amount of prejudice that still exist in Britain today.Anyone who feels threated by B.L.M are part of the problem,
Well stated sir. It is a statement of the continuing oppression of black people, it's still a world wide disease. People are still judged by the colour of their skin. By continuing to take the knee highlights the injustice. Of course all lives matter but this issue is about the continuing racism and oppression of black lives. This has to end. In 1968 Black Athletes tried to make a statement it's sad that we are still trying to make that statement 52 years later. BLM TAKE THE KNEE.
I dont judge anyone by their appearance or origin and think all races should be treated equally. However, if we ever get back to watch a game and the players pull this stunt it will result in loud and sustained booing from myself. Enough is enough. How anyone cant think that is racist is beyond me
I dont judge anyone by their appearance or origin and think all races should be treated equally. However, if we ever get back to watch a game and the players pull this stunt it will result in loud and sustained booing from myself. Enough is enough. How anyone cant think that is racist is beyond me
You show such a lack of understanding. Yes I think this is racist however you dress it up. Not only that you are booing the players our players. So yes I'm calling you a racist bigot.
I dont judge anyone by their appearance or origin and think all races should be treated equally. However, if we ever get back to watch a game and the players pull this stunt it will result in loud and sustained booing from myself. Enough is enough. How anyone cant think that is racist is beyond me
Do you boo anyone crossing them selves or making any other religious observance, if not you are then indeed being rascist.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
Lots here in the “no” camp suggesting that they’re aaallll ffoooorrr racial equality, just not this campaign. What do you suggest then gents? Anything you might be able to get on board with without having a hysterical crying fit?
It wasn’t long back a group of volunteers painted a mural on the back wall of the Pontoon to celebrate the diversity of the club’s former players - that was also met with floods of tears from the same people as are openly weeping in this thread.
It wasn’t long back a group of volunteers painted a mural on the back wall of the Pontoon to celebrate the diversity of the club’s former players - that was also met with floods of tears from the same people as are openly weeping in this thread.
Never ever will I support this clap trap, Holloway spouting his drivel when he stated fans should be banned for booing? very dictatorial outlook, If people have the freedom to take the knee, then equally people have the freedom to voice their opinion against it. It is no more racist than saying black lives matter..
It appears you can only have a opinion if it aligns with the media and their skewed perceived norm.
Lots here in the “no” camp suggesting that they’re aaallll ffoooorrr racial equality, just not this campaign. What do you suggest then gents? Anything you might be able to get on board with without having a hysterical crying fit?
It wasn’t long back a group of volunteers painted a mural on the back wall of the Pontoon to celebrate the diversity of the club’s former players - that was also met with floods of tears from the same people as are openly weeping in this thread.
I do not need to take the knee to support racial equality or anything else for that matter. In fact taking the knee was born out of BLM
Wrong. Taking the knee as a form of race related protest can be traced back to 2011/2012 in American football, before the BLM movement existed. It became a major political issue in 2016 when Colin Kaepernick (San Francisco quarterback) 'took a knee' during the playing of the national anthem, at which point candidate Trump and other right wing commentators attacked him for being anti-American.
The first recorded appearance of #blacklivesmatter is in 2013 as a response to the aquittal of a US police officer accused of murdering a black man.
Black Lives Matters does not have a clear organisation and has never put forward a candidate for election in any country and therefore is not a political party.
Sorry that the facts don't support the right wing dogma.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Wrong. Taking the knee as a form of race related protest can be traced back to 2011/2012 in American football, before the BLM movement existed. It became a major political issue in 2016 when Colin Kaepernick (San Francisco quarterback) 'took a knee' during the playing of the national anthem, at which point candidate Trump and other right wing commentators attacked him for being anti-American.
The first recorded appearance of #blacklivesmatter is in 2013 as a response to the aquittal of a US police officer accused of murdering a black man.
Black Lives Matters does not have a clear organisation and has never put forward a candidate for election in any country and therefore is not a political party.
Sorry that the facts don't support the right wing dogma.
Cheeky T..t, I am certainly not right wing and you are in fact wrong as BLM is a political movement
Cheeky T..t, I am certainly not right wing and you are in fact wrong as BLM is a political movement
Party. I said party.
I would argue that it is a movement that has become highly politicised. When you are arguing for the rights of a minority against a powerful, entrenched majority politics will never be far away.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
I would argue that it is a movement that has become highly politicised. When you are arguing for the rights of a minority against a powerful, entrenched majority politics will never be far away.
Yes, your comment about me having a stutter was particularly cutting. Shall we get back to your latent racism?
Sadly for you I am not a racist. We have had this conversation before, as you well know. You will also recall I called you out for it then, as I am calling you out for it now. You cannot go around labelling people racist just because they don't agree with your view of the world.
Why don’t we rotate and have a silent protest of the week? You know, week 1 BLM, week 2 religion, week 3 gays and transgenders..........
Forcing people to watch an opinion without being allowed to give their own opinion is simply wrong. An earlier poster pointed out that you’re either a racist or an anti-racist, how true that is, modern society breeds people to the far left or far right, it’s getting kinda lonely in the middle.
I wouldn’t boo someone taking the knee, but the act simply doesn’t resonate. I find the fact of £1m a year footballers and £20m a year F1 drivers be-moaning anything unbelievable.
I’m no doubt racist in the eyes of the usual white apologists on this board, so be it, I’m perfectly comfortable with what and who I know I am.
Location: Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middle...
Approval:+7,300
Gold Stars: 307
Quoted from 139914
Why don’t we rotate and have a silent protest of the week? You know, week 1 BLM, week 2 religion, week 3 gays and transgenders..........
Forcing people to watch an opinion without being allowed to give their own opinion is simply wrong. An earlier poster pointed out that you’re either a racist or an anti-racist, how true that is, modern society breeds people to the far left or far right, it’s getting kinda lonely in the middle.
I wouldn’t boo someone taking the knee, but the act simply doesn’t resonate. I find the fact of £1m a year footballers and £20m a year F1 drivers be-moaning anything unbelievable.
I’m no doubt racist in the eyes of the usual white apologists on this board, so be it, I’m perfectly comfortable with what and who I know I am.
You should be alright.....the chances of seeing a 1m quid a year footballer at Blundell Park is pretty remote.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Let’s take a closer look at the Black Lives Matter movement. It is a masterpiece of political marketing driven by “WHITE LEFT WING” activists, a sort of political protection racket following a well-trodden path of agitating and shaming us in to providing money and support. It’s a slogan with a campaign attached, linked to some pretty heavy racial ideology and propaganda. None of it can be criticised without appearing to oppose the idea that black lives do indeed matter. BLM is a classic and effective piece of rhetorical blackmail. Either get on board or you’re a racist: that is the logic of it – a logic driven by fear. It’s the perfect slogan, as befitting the powerful alignment between progressive liberal-left politics and the PR, media and advertising industries across the Anglophone world. There’s an immediate and powerful social block on even questioning this movement just from its name. One of the great successes of the campaign is how it has got many institutions in our society applying this block themselves, promoting the organisation and even punishing insiders who publicly question and criticise any activities carried out under the BLM branding. It appears that institutional Britain has broadly accepted that political support for Black Lives Matter is compulsory, seemingly without questioning it or being able to critically assess its goals. It’s likely that very few people in institutional Britain have a clue what they are supporting when they back BLM, as footballer’s do most weekends. The BLM manifesto, seemingly copied and pasted from previous far left campaigns, tells us, “We are guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world” It says it will spend the funds on political lobbying, “Developing and delivering healing practices in black communities”, whatever that means, and “Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police.” It also talks about wanting “reparations of black people dealing with generational trauma and institutional racism”. It’s drivel, but dangerous drivel: trying to stir up grievance among their target groups and shame governments, business and individuals into giving them and other activists money: a kind of political protection racket. Supporting progressive identity activism gives us a quick ‘hit’ of that meaning and purpose we lack, making us appear in a positive light to those who dominate our public life and those who go along with this domination. The identity activists exploit this for all its worth. Superficially this ‘virtue signalling’ makes life easier, while thinking for ourselves and going against the grain makes things harder. However, going along with it doesn’t ultimately protect us. The demands keep on coming. For BLM is a campaign with no possible limits and no end in sight. They always want more and always have accusations of racism in their back pocket to use if you choose to resist. This is the way it’s going. We can see it in America with the New York Times and other media outlets. We can also see it in our own BBC, many of whose presenters now openly propagate radical identity politics, seemingly not bothered by the damage they are doing to one of our country’s greatest creations and its reputation for impartiality. The BBC routinely gives BLM activists a platform to voice nebulous claims – claims which the corporation apparently lacks the inclination or the will to scrutinise. Indeed, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish activists from BBC presenters. If BLM is truly about making black lives better why are they not visible in Africa where slavery is rife with trafficking of children and women and sexual slavery endemic ?. I’m afraid we are being taken for fools by these left wing activists for whom improving the lives of black people is pretty low on their agenda.
Sadly for you I am not a racist. We have had this conversation before, as you well know. You will also recall I called you out for it then, as I am calling you out for it now. You cannot go around labelling people racist just because they don't agree with your view of the world.
I don’t recall anything you have ever said to me, sorry. I only recall every comment you seem to make having the air of a pub racist or someone who gets his opinions exclusively from The Sun.
Sadly for you I am not a racist. We have had this conversation before, as you well know. You will also recall I called you out for it then, as I am calling you out for it now. You cannot go around labelling people racist just because they don't agree with your view of the world.
Saw this a while back. Huge respect to this black police officer during the black lives matter movement in the USA telling the lady to stop dishing out the words racist to his white colleague just because he is white. Strikes me as a good honest man that Iam sure does the police uniform proud. We need more like him representing our police all over the world.
Let’s take a closer look at the Black Lives Matter movement. It is a masterpiece of political marketing driven by “WHITE LEFT WING” activists, a sort of political protection racket following a well-trodden path of agitating and shaming us in to providing money and support. It’s a slogan with a campaign attached, linked to some pretty heavy racial ideology and propaganda. None of it can be criticised without appearing to oppose the idea that black lives do indeed matter. BLM is a classic and effective piece of rhetorical blackmail. Either get on board or you’re a racist: that is the logic of it – a logic driven by fear. It’s the perfect slogan, as befitting the powerful alignment between progressive liberal-left politics and the PR, media and advertising industries across the Anglophone world. There’s an immediate and powerful social block on even questioning this movement just from its name. One of the great successes of the campaign is how it has got many institutions in our society applying this block themselves, promoting the organisation and even punishing insiders who publicly question and criticise any activities carried out under the BLM branding. It appears that institutional Britain has broadly accepted that political support for Black Lives Matter is compulsory, seemingly without questioning it or being able to critically assess its goals. It’s likely that very few people in institutional Britain have a clue what they are supporting when they back BLM, as footballer’s do most weekends. The BLM manifesto, seemingly copied and pasted from previous far left campaigns, tells us, “We are guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world” It says it will spend the funds on political lobbying, “Developing and delivering healing practices in black communities”, whatever that means, and “Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police.” It also talks about wanting “reparations of black people dealing with generational trauma and institutional racism”. It’s drivel, but dangerous drivel: trying to stir up grievance among their target groups and shame governments, business and individuals into giving them and other activists money: a kind of political protection racket. Supporting progressive identity activism gives us a quick ‘hit’ of that meaning and purpose we lack, making us appear in a positive light to those who dominate our public life and those who go along with this domination. The identity activists exploit this for all its worth. Superficially this ‘virtue signalling’ makes life easier, while thinking for ourselves and going against the grain makes things harder. However, going along with it doesn’t ultimately protect us. The demands keep on coming. For BLM is a campaign with no possible limits and no end in sight. They always want more and always have accusations of racism in their back pocket to use if you choose to resist. This is the way it’s going. We can see it in America with the New York Times and other media outlets. We can also see it in our own BBC, many of whose presenters now openly propagate radical identity politics, seemingly not bothered by the damage they are doing to one of our country’s greatest creations and its reputation for impartiality. The BBC routinely gives BLM activists a platform to voice nebulous claims – claims which the corporation apparently lacks the inclination or the will to scrutinise. Indeed, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish activists from BBC presenters. If BLM is truly about making black lives better why are they not visible in Africa where slavery is rife with trafficking of children and women and sexual slavery endemic ?. I’m afraid we are being taken for fools by these left wing activists for whom improving the lives of black people is pretty low on their agenda.
A big green tick from me and if there was a share button I'd be hitting it.
"A Black Lives Matter group" has registered. They "could" field candidates next year.
So a group allied to Black Lives Matters has registered, not the actual Black Lives Matter organisation - because it is not a single organisation.
And your article is from The Telegraph. Not exactly the most reliable source in the debate. So you are more reliable. But it doesn’t fit your thought so you dismiss it
That has the feel of 'a bloke in the pub told me' or 'I read it on Facebook'.
Oh for felicitations sake If you can't get him as a racist you'll get him for being sexist!
So you don't think referring to a woman as a 'bint' isn't sexist? I know it was said partly in jest but you could equally argue some racist remarks were just banter. Where do you draw the line.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
I see ex professional footballer and now on the club management at QPR Les Ferdinand is saying it’s time to stop the knee, is he a racist ? Plus, footballers in this country are doing the knee but I haven’t noticed before any episode of Coronation Street the cast taking the knee, so again are they racist?
"The Champions League game between Paris Saint-Germain and Basaksehir has been interrupted after players walked off the field on Tuesday after alleging a fourth official used a racial slur against an assistant coach."
When Leeds trainer Les Cocker was once told Norman Hunter had broken a leg, he asked: “Whose is it?”
Let’s take a closer look at the Black Lives Matter movement. It is a masterpiece of political marketing driven by “WHITE LEFT WING” activists, a sort of political protection racket following a well-trodden path of agitating and shaming us in to providing money and support. It’s a slogan with a campaign attached, linked to some pretty heavy racial ideology and propaganda. None of it can be criticised without appearing to oppose the idea that black lives do indeed matter. BLM is a classic and effective piece of rhetorical blackmail. Either get on board or you’re a racist: that is the logic of it – a logic driven by fear. It’s the perfect slogan, as befitting the powerful alignment between progressive liberal-left politics and the PR, media and advertising industries across the Anglophone world. There’s an immediate and powerful social block on even questioning this movement just from its name. One of the great successes of the campaign is how it has got many institutions in our society applying this block themselves, promoting the organisation and even punishing insiders who publicly question and criticise any activities carried out under the BLM branding. It appears that institutional Britain has broadly accepted that political support for Black Lives Matter is compulsory, seemingly without questioning it or being able to critically assess its goals. It’s likely that very few people in institutional Britain have a clue what they are supporting when they back BLM, as footballer’s do most weekends. The BLM manifesto, seemingly copied and pasted from previous far left campaigns, tells us, “We are guided by a commitment to dismantle imperialism, capitalism, white-supremacy, patriarchy and the state structures that disproportionately harm black people in Britain and around the world” It says it will spend the funds on political lobbying, “Developing and delivering healing practices in black communities”, whatever that means, and “Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police.” It also talks about wanting “reparations of black people dealing with generational trauma and institutional racism”. It’s drivel, but dangerous drivel: trying to stir up grievance among their target groups and shame governments, business and individuals into giving them and other activists money: a kind of political protection racket. Supporting progressive identity activism gives us a quick ‘hit’ of that meaning and purpose we lack, making us appear in a positive light to those who dominate our public life and those who go along with this domination. The identity activists exploit this for all its worth. Superficially this ‘virtue signalling’ makes life easier, while thinking for ourselves and going against the grain makes things harder. However, going along with it doesn’t ultimately protect us. The demands keep on coming. For BLM is a campaign with no possible limits and no end in sight. They always want more and always have accusations of racism in their back pocket to use if you choose to resist. This is the way it’s going. We can see it in America with the New York Times and other media outlets. We can also see it in our own BBC, many of whose presenters now openly propagate radical identity politics, seemingly not bothered by the damage they are doing to one of our country’s greatest creations and its reputation for impartiality. The BBC routinely gives BLM activists a platform to voice nebulous claims – claims which the corporation apparently lacks the inclination or the will to scrutinise. Indeed, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish activists from BBC presenters. If BLM is truly about making black lives better why are they not visible in Africa where slavery is rife with trafficking of children and women and sexual slavery endemic ?. I’m afraid we are being taken for fools by these left wing activists for whom improving the lives of black people is pretty low on their agenda.
Eloquent, well written, impassioned......and right wing b*llshit. The exact argument that a right wing government would hope that their apologists make to protect their privileged life and make sure they're not being asked the really difficult questions they have no (legal or moral) answers for.
A country 'led' by an immoral liar with no interest beyond self interest, surrounded by incompetents who got their jobs through the 'network' and are rewarding their cronies further down the food chain in the same manner.
This government poses a far greater threat to 'British values' than Black Lives Matter could ever dream of. Don't believe the b*llshit you're being fed.
Miss Scunthorpe. Not a beauty pageant, just sound advice.
Eloquent, well written, impassioned......and right wing b*llshit. The exact argument that a right wing government would hope that their apologists make to protect their privileged life and make sure they're not being asked the really difficult questions they have no (legal or moral) answers for.
A country 'led' by an immoral liar with no interest beyond self interest, surrounded by incompetents who got their jobs through the 'network' and are rewarding their cronies further down the food chain in the same manner.
This government poses a far greater threat to 'British values' than Black Lives Matter could ever dream of. Don't believe the b*llshit you're being fed.
FFS Jeremy I thought you and Momentum had copulated off when the country rejected your left wing, Marxist balderdash. Go live in the Marxist utopia that is Venezuela see how that goes for you.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Eloquent, well written, impassioned......and right wing b*llshit. The exact argument that a right wing government would hope that their apologists make to protect their privileged life and make sure they're not being asked the really difficult questions they have no (legal or moral) answers for.
A country 'led' by an immoral liar with no interest beyond self interest, surrounded by incompetents who got their jobs through the 'network' and are rewarding their cronies further down the food chain in the same manner.
This government poses a far greater threat to 'British values' than Black Lives Matter could ever dream of. Don't believe the b*llshit you're being fed.
FFS Jeremy I thought you and Momentum had copulated off when the country rejected your left wing, Marxist balderdash. Go live in the Marxist utopia that is Venezuela see how that goes for you.
In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions. Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them. GOD
Eloquent, well written, impassioned......and right wing b*llshit. The exact argument that a right wing government would hope that their apologists make to protect their privileged life and make sure they're not being asked the really difficult questions they have no (legal or moral) answers for.
A country 'led' by an immoral liar with no interest beyond self interest, surrounded by incompetents who got their jobs through the 'network' and are rewarding their cronies further down the food chain in the same manner.
This government poses a far greater threat to 'British values' than Black Lives Matter could ever dream of. Don't believe the b*llshit you're being fed.
I'm afraid its Guardian reading quiche eating liberals like you that are a big part of the problem.
I have carefully read your thread and do not see you answering any of the points raised, you have just provided the usual Liberal reply of "He must be racist and its Boris's fault".
Eloquent, well written, impassioned......and right wing b*llshit. The exact argument that a right wing government would hope that their apologists make to protect their privileged life and make sure they're not being asked the really difficult questions they have no (legal or moral) answers for.
A country 'led' by an immoral liar with no interest beyond self interest, surrounded by incompetents who got their jobs through the 'network' and are rewarding their cronies further down the food chain in the same manner.
This government poses a far greater threat to 'British values' than Black Lives Matter could ever dream of. Don't believe the b*llshit you're being fed.
Oh intercourse off, this country has been led by immoral liars from both the Tory, Liberal and Labour parties and they all have had a right bunch of male masturbators working for them.
As for cronies, flipping hell that pathological liar Blair put plenty of cronies in the Lords.
Is quiche more liberal than the more traditionally left wing quinoa? A Guardian exclusive investigation.
Traditionally left wing would be more like pie & chips and a pint of Tetleys... As for quinoa, that would definitely come under Guardian reading liberal. Quiche? Its not the 90s anymore you know...
That there is anyone on here who doesn’t think they are racist that wants to stop a peaceful protest against discrimination and would boo and insult their own team for standing up for what is common respect and decency disappoints me, unfortunately it doesn’t shock me, there are racists in abundance in our home town , plenty on here looking to try to explain their racism away with deflection and whataboutery but in their hearts they know what it’s about
Excellent comment. The truth of it will attract more crosses than likes.
That there is anyone on here who doesn’t think they are racist that wants to stop a peaceful protest against discrimination and would boo and insult their own team for standing up for what is common respect and decency disappoints me, unfortunately it doesn’t shock me, there are racists in abundance in our home town , plenty on here looking to try to explain their racism away with deflection and whataboutery but in their hearts they know what it’s about
It’s a bit like trying to argue there’s no place for peaceful protest in sport because there’s no place for politics in sport...I mean anyone that thinks that should probably step away from the game...politics is and has always been involved in sport.
Would those so vehemently opposed to take the knee have challenged and booed those who felt the need to clap that twonk at Luton? Do they challenge the notion of singing an anthem? If someone were wrongly convicted would they challenge a protest? How do they cope with the deputy leader of the council owning the club? How did they feel when two completely invisible and incompetent local MPs were handed townnshirts in nothing more than an awful attempt at gaining publicity?
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
It’s a bit like trying to argue there’s no place for peaceful protest in sport because there’s no place for politics in sport...I mean anyone that thinks that should probably step away from the game...politics is and has always been involved in sport.
Would those so vehemently opposed to take the knee have challenged and booed those who felt the need to clap that twonk at Luton? Do they challenge the notion of singing an anthem? If someone were wrongly convicted would they challenge a protest? How do they cope with the deputy leader of the council owning the club? How did they feel when two completely invisible and incompetent local MPs were handed townnshirts in nothing more than an awful attempt at gaining publicity?
Well said. I love the history of the Royal family, I love my country but I'm a Republican and don't agree with jingoistic God Save The Queen so don't sing it, I would never boo though.
I do wonder, does Hanson need support to take the knee?
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
It looks like Millwall players have given up taking the knee.
About time. Kneeling to the BLM is just wrong. Linking arms, wearing logos, kick it out and other initiatives have no negative connotations that all can get behind. Not supporting taking the need does not equate to racism. I will certainly boo taking the knee. If showing my displeasure at kneeling to a marxist, racist group like the BLM makes me racist in the eyes of those who agree with the BLM so be it. I dont seek or require their consent or approval. I am comfortable in the knowledge that i have never discriminated against anyone for their race, sex, or disability
About time. Kneeling to the BLM is just wrong. Linking arms, wearing logos, kick it out and other initiatives have no negative connotations that all can get behind. Not supporting taking the knee does not equate to racism. I will certainly boo taking the knee. If showing my displeasure at kneeling to a marxist, racist group like the BLM makes me racist in the eyes of those who agree with the BLM so be it. I dont seek or require their consent or approval. I am comfortable in the knowledge that i have never discriminated against anyone for their race, sex, or disability
I think the Millwall manager effectively said that after the game on Saturday.
So if a footballer did not take the knee can you imagine the fury and accusations of him being a racist, I think that’s why although some are bound not to agree with it they do it out of fear.
So if a footballer did not take the knee can you imagine the fury and accusations of him being a racist, I think that’s why although some are bound not to agree with it they do it out of fear.
Watching last night's Quest the QPR players when down on one knee with the Ref but looked like all Millwall players remained standing.
I wonder if some on here, footballers, the police, the fire brigade, Kier Starmer will go on one knee in support of young white girls being raped and sexually abused by Muslim rape gangs as another bunch of the illegitimates go on trial.
I wonder why you’ve shoe-horned that comment into this thread. Quite telling...
He's going to be really embarrassed when he realises that proportionally twice as many sexual assaults are committed by white folk than Asian (3.1 to 1.5). Unweighted figures are even more damming, White 9859 and Asian 716. I mean how's he going to justify his comments now? The Daily Mail is strong is this specimen.
He's going to be really embarrassed when he realises that proportionally twice as many sexual assaults are committed by white folk than Asian (3.1 to 1.5). Unweighted figures are even more damming, White 9859 and Asian 716. I mean how's he going to justify his comments now? The Daily Mail is strong is this specimen.
I think Arry was making the obvious point that people are only too ready to "take the knee" when something terrible happens to a certain section of society, but are suddenly reticent when it is the other way round. And he is right. There certainly wont be any form of protest against Muslim rape gangs all over the country who rape under age white girls, at grounds this weekend will there?
And by the way, table or no table it is not a bloody competition is it?
He's going to be really embarrassed when he realises that proportionally twice as many sexual assaults are committed by white folk than Asian (3.1 to 1.5). Unweighted figures are even more damming, White 9859 and Asian 716. I mean how's he going to justify his comments now? The Daily Mail is strong is this specimen.
There is another little problem there in using such stats isn’t there? The assaults by the men in these cases are almost 100% Asian on white. The assaults by white men are also 100% on white. That was the point. BLM was all about white on black. The nearest it gets to black on black is blue on black.
Nevertheless BLM was a valid protest but Arry is right, there will be no such protest in football grounds about these latest rapes.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
25 years as a frontline social worker in Children's Service all the paedophiles I dealt with were exclusively white males.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
25 years as a frontline social worker in Children's Service all the paedophiles I dealt with were exclusively white males.
You should have asked for a transfer to Oxford, Telford, Bradford, Oldham, Rotherham Blackburn and many more. But perhaps you think Asian rape gangs on underage white girls don't exist.
The thing is these gangs target vulnerable girls many of whom were in care.It is a shocking indictment of the care system that these girls found the allure of these predatory paedophiles as the only attention paid to them .Many people out there have no conception how poorly and cynically children in care are dealt with.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
The thing is these gangs target vulnerable girls many of whom were in care.It is a shocking indictment of the care system that these girls found the allure of these predatory paedophiles as the only attention paid to them .Many people out there have no conception how poorly and cynically children in care are dealt with.
Wrong! The only people to blame are the people who rape underage girls.
Wrong! The only people to blame are the people who rape underage girls.
I obviously know nothing then ,thank God there are people like you to instruct me in the error of my ways.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
Explain to me the methodology of your survey,what checks have you done re sample validity.Have you taken in account construct validity.What is your standard of deviation..You might as well have got a handful of chicken bones and thrown them on the ground.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
He's going to be really embarrassed when he realises that proportionally twice as many sexual assaults are committed by white folk than Asian (3.1 to 1.5). Unweighted figures are even more damming, White 9859 and Asian 716. I mean how's he going to justify his comments now? The Daily Mail is strong is this specimen.
And another one completely missing the point. As others have mentioned this is about Asians targeting young white girls so not just a case of sexually abusing them but racially as well.
Explain to me the methodology of your survey,what checks have you done re sample validity.Have you taken in account construct validity.What is your standard of deviation..You might as well have got a handful of chicken bones and thrown them on the ground.
That tells me all I need to know, sadly. Underage girls are being raped, systematically and brutally all over the land, and you cannot even lay the blame on the rapists, but prefer to talk in jargon.
All our jobs involve jargon, but we are talking about a very simple point. The only people to blame who rape underage girls are the evil people who carry it out.
I can't believe this has been moved to non football. It's the most topical football story at the moment, on the news, in the papers on question time. How the hell can one of the most divisive football subjects be non football?
That tells me all I need to know, sadly. Underage girls are being raped, systematically and brutally all over the land, and you cannot even lay the blame on the rapists, but prefer to talk in jargon.
All our jobs involve jargon, but we are talking about a very simple point. The only people to blame who rape underage girls are the evil people who carry it out.
I don’t think anyone is arguing against that notion, however, having worked for years with victims of CSE as well as perpetrators and part of that wider system, believe me, the system has to carry some of the blame.
Mountains of evidence and incompetent practice were ‘lost’, again, through gross misconduct.
So whilst the social care system isn’t directly carrying out the heinous acts, it very much ignored it. Did for many years so in my book that’s equally as bad as the people doing it. Systems induce trauma as much as perpetrators. It happened for far too long and the people shouting about it from within were downtrodden, kicked back or forced out.
Having spoken with victims, particularly to the woman who wrote Child A about the Rochdale grooming scandal, and the lady who wrote the book about Rotherham, they hold both in as much contempt. They speak very honestly and openly and provide some excellent insight.
'the poor and the needy are selfish and greedy'...well done Mozza
25 years as a frontline social worker in Children's Service all the paedophiles I dealt with were exclusively white males.
if you had lived and worked in Rochdale, that would be different.
To start using the competence or otherwise of child protection services is simply a distraction technique. The fact remains that girls were treated as chattel, raped and racially abused. The original point stands. BLM, a protest about the killing of a US black male, is the subject of a legitimate protest in UK football grounds, but racially aggravated crime committed in the UK against vulnerable white girls is not. I think the man from Mars trying to understand the human race would struggle withe the logic of that.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
I can't believe this has been moved to non football. It's the most topical football story at the moment, on the news, in the papers on question time. How the hell can one of the most divisive football subjects be non football?
When people who claim they’re not racist start ranting about asian rape gangs on a football forum, maybe?
When people who claim they’re not racist start ranting about asian rape gangs on a football forum, maybe?
Since when did pointing out illogicality become a rant? What is sauce for the goose applies here. If you think that is irrelevant on a football forum then surely the BLM protest would be irrelevant on a football pitch?
We have to think these things through. I don’t think either issue is relevant to football but if one is, they both are.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
I don’t think anyone is arguing against that notion, however, having worked for years with victims of CSE as well as perpetrators and part of that wider system, believe me, the system has to carry some of the blame.
Mountains of evidence and incompetent practice were ‘lost’, again, through gross misconduct.
So whilst the social care system isn’t directly carrying out the heinous acts, it very much ignored it. Did for many years so in my book that’s equally as bad as the people doing it. Systems induce trauma as much as perpetrators. It happened for far too long and the people shouting about it from within were downtrodden, kicked back or forced out.
Having spoken with victims, particularly to the woman who wrote Child A about the Rochdale grooming scandal, and the lady who wrote the book about Rotherham, they hold both in as much contempt. They speak very honestly and openly and provide some excellent insight.
. Never try to reason with bigots
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
I worked in the West Riding for some years in the 70s and saw at first hand the attitudes and incompetences Aldi refers to. The irony was that they were done in the name of multiculturalism and involved actually encouraging cultural differences and ignoring any that did not concur with the British way of life. I have mentioned before on another thread how Ray Honeyford was hounded out of his job as a headteacher for daring to point out the consequences. Those consequences included allowing “community leaders” to run virtual fiefdoms in areas like Kirklees and Rochdale.
I have no time for the far right, this is not a political issue in that way. The girls that suffered after this abrogation of responsibility were not raped and pimped by the police or the social workers. The care homes were not brothels. This was all down to the cultural mores of Asian males who were protected for years. Aldi may wish to consider why files and documents went missing. Not incompetence, deliberate obfuscation.
Now, to my mind at least this is at least as important an issue for British society as BLM. It is a travesty that we have threads discussing a protest from one organisation, saying its protest trumps all others and is the primary measure of a person’s anti-racism in our country. That is wrong, illogical and to be honest it is unbelievably ignorant when we have had generations of girls being abused and authorities were aware of the identity of the perpetrators. There is nothing wrong in doing a BLM protest but let’s not pretend it is something it isn’t and let’s not use it as some sort of moral battering ram at the expense of other racial issues..
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Harold Shipman'. Fred West, James Hamilton, Brady, Ian Huntley all white therefore, all white men are serial killers eh?
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
I worked in the West Riding for some years in the 70s and saw at first hand the attitudes and incompetences Aldi refers to. The irony was that they were done in the name of multiculturalism and involved actually encouraging cultural differences and ignoring any that did not concur with the British way of life. I have mentioned before on another thread how Ray Honeyford was hounded out of his job as a headteacher for daring to point out the consequences. Those consequences included allowing “community leaders” to run virtual fiefdoms in areas like Kirklees and Rochdale.
I have no time for the far right, this is not a political issue in that way. The girls that suffered after this abrogation of responsibility were not raped and pimped by the police or the social workers. The care homes were not brothels. This was all down to the cultural mores of Asian males who were protected for years. Aldi may wish to consider why files and documents went missing. Not incompetence, deliberate obfuscation.
Now, to my mind at least this is at least as important an issue for British society as BLM. It is a travesty that we have threads discussing a protest from one organisation, saying its protest trumps all others and is the primary measure of a person’s anti-racism in our country. That is wrong, illogical and to be honest it is unbelievably ignorant when we have had generations of girls being abused and authorities were aware of the identity of the perpetrators. There is nothing wrong in doing a BLM protest but let’s not pretend it is something it isn’t and let’s not use it as some sort of moral battering ram at the expense of other racial issues..
How have you arrived at a link for the two things? A protest against systemic racism and paedophile grooming gangs. It’s Olympic standard whataboutery!
How have you arrived at a link for the two things? A protest against systemic racism and paedophile grooming gangs. It’s Olympic standard whataboutery!
I didn’t personally arrive at a link, I was attempting to answer other posts on the subject. However, there is a fairly obvious comparison to be made is there not?
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
if you had lived and worked in Rochdale, that would be different.
To start using the competence or otherwise of child protection services is simply a distraction technique. The fact remains that girls were treated as chattel, raped and racially abused. The original point stands. BLM, a protest about the killing of a US black male, is the subject of a legitimate protest in UK football grounds, but racially aggravated crime committed in the UK against vulnerable white girls is not. I think the man from Mars trying to understand the human race would struggle withe the logic of that.
It is not the inadequacy of the child protection system ,it is the inadequacy of the whole care system.Have you ever pondered as to why young people are so susceptible to grooming gangs.These gangs ensnare young people by giving them attention and gifts,sadly for many this is the first time anybody has lavished any attention on them.There is a whole lost generation out there who local authorities are failing to discharge their duties as corporate parents.
Sadly most people are not aware of how the care system lets young people down.It is a sad fact that very few young people who have been through the care system regard it as a positive experience.
Sadly this situation will never be resolved until there can be a grown up discussion based on truth and objectively without infecting it with their own biased and bigoted agenda.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
It is not the inadequacy of the child protection system ,it is the inadequacy of the whole care system.Have you ever pondered as to why young people are so susceptible to grooming gangs.These gangs ensnare young people by giving them attention and gifts,sadly for many this is the first time anybody has lavished any attention on them.There is a whole lost generation out there who local authorities are failing to discharge their duties as corporate parents.
Sadly most people are not aware of how the care system lets young people down.It is a sad fact that very few young people who have been through the care system regard it as a positive experience.
Sadly this situation will never be resolved until there can be a grown up discussion based on truth and objectively without infecting it with their own biased and bigoted agenda.
Its very worrying that someone with your experience in the field seems far more concerned about perceived bigotry than facing the truth that Asian men, mainly of Pakistan origin, are systematically raping and abusing girls. There was a Sky report about it this morning, and the situation is apparently unchanged and they are still doing it in most large towns and cities according to the report. Granted a lot of them have been sent to prison for their heinous crimes, but it seems they are completely undeterred and seem to think they can continue this behaviour knowing most will get away with it.
Whatever problems these children have, whatever authorities have let them down is no excuse for this vile behaviour from the men involved.
It is equally more worrying that your bigotry blinds you to the fact because of the failure of the care system to adequately care for young people there is a reservoir of young people who are susceptible to being groomed by these gangs. It is a sad fact that these young people perceive they are shown much more care from the people grooming them than from the people there to protect them.That is the reality of the situation and until that situation is recognised any attempts to combat these gangs are doomed to failure.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
It is equally more worrying that your bigotry blinds you to the fact because of the failure of the care system to adequately care for young people there is a reservoir of young people who are susceptible to being groomed by these gangs. It is a sad fact that these young people perceive they are shown much more care from the people grooming them than from the people there to protect them.That is the reality of the situation and until that situation is recognised any attempts to combat these gangs are doomed to failure.
Why on earth do you keep harping on about bigotry? I am not a bigot - these rapists have been tried and convicted in a court of law. This is a fact, not bigotry. Of course I don't know the exact details of the difficulties involved in the care system, but that is not the point I am making.
They, the Asian men, are the ones guilty of systemic and brutal rapes and assaults on girls. Nobody else did it. It doesn't matter what difficulties the girls have had they have rightly been found guilty, but apparently gangs all over the country are still doing it.
Because rather than seeing then prosecuted post facto I am more concerned about preventing it from happening in the first place. Unless you deal with the full circumstance you are only dealing with the symptoms. By then it is too late for a significant number of you people and often the why the authorities treat them compound their trauma.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
It is not the inadequacy of the child protection system ,it is the inadequacy of the whole care system.Have you ever pondered as to why young people are so susceptible to grooming gangs.These gangs ensnare young people by giving them attention and gifts,sadly for many this is the first time anybody has lavished any attention on them.There is a whole lost generation out there who local authorities are failing to discharge their duties as corporate parents.
Sadly most people are not aware of how the care system lets young people down.It is a sad fact that very few young people who have been through the care system regard it as a positive experience.
Sadly this situation will never be resolved until there can be a grown up discussion based on truth and objectively without infecting it with their own biased and bigoted agenda.
That may all be true but is it relevant? Those same girls are vulnerable to everyone of every age and origin but not everyone has equally taken advantage of those girls. You know as well as I do that a number of offenders when questioned blamed the lack of moral guidance in white homes. Indeed there have been many instances where the child has not been in care at all in the first instance but in a perfectly normal home from which she was seduced so the care system argument did not apply.
It is this dichotomy of culture that matters. Have you never seen the way some Asian men treat their wives? Even now in 2020 you will see arranged marriages and some wives forced to walk behind their husbands. Yet this goes by the board because of a fear of appearing racist. Those kids suffered and had lives ruined by men whose culture made them think they had a right to do it, and here we are talking about a posing protest that began well but passed its sell-by weeks ago.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
No sign of any booing from 2000 Everton fans at Goodison Park.
Well of course not.
It is not allowed. You run the risk of being given a lifetime ban for a club you have supported forever because you don't agree with a Marxist political movement by booing.
Nobody has ever objected to the genuine attempts to root out racism but of course we now must conform to this pile of c**p or face consequences.
It is not allowed. You run the risk of being given a lifetime ban for a club you have supported forever because you don't agree with a Marxist political movement by booing.
Nobody has ever objected to the genuine attempts to root out racism but of course we now must conform to this pile of c**p or face consequences.
Or conversely they must comply with your views and protest in a way that is acceptable to you,if not they are Marxist.Cannot you see how patronising you are being,surely it is up the people suffering the injustice to define how they protest.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
It is not allowed. You run the risk of being given a lifetime ban for a club you have supported forever because you don't agree with a Marxist political movement by booing.
Nobody has ever objected to the genuine attempts to root out racism but of course we now must conform to this pile of c**p or face consequences.
Ner it’s just cause they’re not racist sharp objects.
It is not allowed. You run the risk of being given a lifetime ban for a club you have supported forever because you don't agree with a Marxist political movement by booing.
Nobody has ever objected to the genuine attempts to root out racism but of course we now must conform to this pile of c**p or face consequences.
Good to see a majority voting for support on the polling.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Ner it’s just cause they’re not racist sharp objects.
No doubt you are correct in some cases, but I suspect most fans booing will be more like me - realising that such a divisive issue* will pit fans against fans even before we have kicked off. It will have to end at some point, so I don't know why the authorities don't step in now; contrary to some opinion on here, players do not rule the game or the conditions it is played under.
*Ending racism is not a divisive issue, we can all agree on that, but the BLM movement is quite a separate thing altogether.
Good to see a majority voting for support on the polling.
Whatever the results of a poll, even if nearly half of fans attending are against taking the knee why do it?? Why incur the wrath/ the irritation of nearly half your fan base before we have even kicked off? *
Disclaimer. That does not mean nearly half are racist bigots, it just means they have the good sense to know that kneeling down before every game will do sodomist all for ending racism.
I was trying to think what all this reminded me of and then it came to me. In the halcyon days of going to the flicks the end of the night’s programme was followed by the national anthem ...... only by the time it began the stampede had left the cinema.
We were all patriots but we were blowed if we had to show it every time we went for a normal night’s entertainment and slap and tickle on the back row.
No doubt somebody will ask why teams have to sing the anthems at internationals but I’ll let them think that out for themselves.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Whatever the results of a poll, even if nearly half of fans attending are against taking the knee why do it?? Why incur the wrath/ the irritation of nearly half your fan base before we have even kicked off? *
Disclaimer. That does not mean nearly half are racist bigots, it just means they have the good sense to know that kneeling down before every game will do sodomist all for ending racism.
I, for one, really believe you are sincere in the inference that you are only concerned about this issue because you don’t think the protest is effective enough. You are very convincing.
What would you suggest then, if you want the problem addressed properly? Industrial action? A strike by all players until appropriate action is taken by the relevant authorities? Boycotts of certain clubs? Refusal to work with certain brands?
I, for one, really believe you are sincere in the inference that you are only concerned about this issue because you don’t think the protest is effective enough. You are very convincing.
What would you suggest then, if you want the problem addressed properly? Industrial action? A strike by all players until appropriate action is taken by the relevant authorities? Boycotts of certain clubs? Refusal to work with certain brands?
I had to sit down and pour a stiff drink. The first time I’ve known you really acknowledge the sincerity of a disagreeing view. But well done for realising it is the herd action people like Lew and me get on high horses about.
The GT has been plastering its pages with the story about the police inspector sacked for racist comments. That is the sort of thing that should happen - specific action against the perpetrators and well publicised so people think before they speak, not poser protests they know will have limited, if any, effect in the long run.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
That may all be true but is it relevant? Those same girls are vulnerable to everyone of every age and origin but not everyone has equally taken advantage of those girls. You know as well as I do that a number of offenders when questioned blamed the lack of moral guidance in white homes. Indeed there have been many instances where the child has not been in care at all in the first instance but in a perfectly normal home from which she was seduced so the care system argument did not apply.
It is this dichotomy of culture that matters. Have you never seen the way some Asian men treat their wives? Even now in 2020 you will see arranged marriages and some wives forced to walk behind their husbands. Yet this goes by the board because of a fear of appearing racist. Those kids suffered and had lives ruined by men whose culture made them think they had a right to do it, and here we are talking about a posing protest that began well but passed its sell-by weeks ago.
You make so many assumptions here,it is not exclusively girls who are targeted,There is nothing wrong with arranged marriages some are very successful I think you are conflating them with forced marriages.Have you seen the way some white men treat their wives?Bigotry runs through this post which identifies your true agenda.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
You make so many assumptions here,it is not exclusively girls who are targeted,There is nothing wrong with arranged marriages some are very successful I think you are conflating them with forced marriages.Have you seen the way some white men treat their wives?Bigotry runs through this post which identifies your true agenda.
For someone who professes to know something about the care system your ignorance of how it has worked in other areas is astounding. Now you are trying your best to wriggle out of a situation you know to be true by twisting and turning it to include white domestic abuse and semantics over "arranged and "forced". You are stuck now. If I was guilty of bigotry then are you not doing the same in your comment on some white men? Is domestic abuse a part of their ethnic culture?
Perhaps you should have a good look at the Rotherham cases for example and see the full picture of the male dominated culture and the ruling of a community from within. Look at the reports from police officers whose suspicions were downgraded so as not to appear racist. There are all manner of issues there and in Leicester, Rochdale etc. that include abuse within and without the community, Sharia Law, postal vote fixing etc. I would hesitate to say this is always with the collusion of the authorities but rest assured much has been with their knowledge. Excusing it by saying someone else is guilty of something else just does not cut the mustard. Here we have a serious problem on our doorsteps and what are we doing? Arguing the toss over some posers on a football field.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Whatever the results of a poll, even if nearly half of fans attending are against taking the knee why do it?? Why incur the wrath/ the irritation of nearly half your fan base before we have even kicked off? *
Disclaimer. That does not mean nearly half are racist bigots, it just means they have the good sense to know that kneeling down before every game will do sodomist all for ending racism.
Why not do it ? Its down to the players what they want to do. As posted earlier:
"The truth is that the knee protests were conceived and instigated not by BLM, nor by the football authorities, nor would-be cultural engineers among “woke media elites”, but by the football players themselves.
The first European football player to take a knee was Marcus Thuram, after he scored for Borussia Moenchengladbach against Union Berlin on May 31st, six days after the killing of George Floyd."
You can carry on protesting,boo if you want to but its not your decision & rightly so.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
For someone who professes to know something about the care system your ignorance of how it has worked in other areas is astounding. Now you are trying your best to wriggle out of a situation you know to be true by twisting and turning it to include white domestic abuse and semantics over "arranged and "forced". You are stuck now. If I was guilty of bigotry then are you not doing the same in your comment on some white men? Is domestic abuse a part of their ethnic culture?
Perhaps you should have a good look at the Rotherham cases for example and see the full picture of the male dominated culture and the ruling of a community from within. Look at the reports from police officers whose suspicions were downgraded so as not to appear racist. There are all manner of issues there and in Leicester, Rochdale etc. that include abuse within and without the community, Sharia Law, postal vote fixing etc. I would hesitate to say this is always with the collusion of the authorities but rest assured much has been with their knowledge. Excusing it by saying someone else is guilty of something else just does not cut the mustard. Here we have a serious problem on our doorsteps and what are we doing? Arguing the toss over some posers on a football field.
Give in you cannot reason within someone whose views are not based on reason
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
For someone who professes to know something about the care system your ignorance of how it has worked in other areas is astounding. Now you are trying your best to wriggle out of a situation you know to be true by twisting and turning it to include white domestic abuse and semantics over "arranged and "forced". You are stuck now. If I was guilty of bigotry then are you not doing the same in your comment on some white men? Is domestic abuse a part of their ethnic culture?
Perhaps you should have a good look at the Rotherham cases for example and see the full picture of the male dominated culture and the ruling of a community from within. Look at the reports from police officers whose suspicions were downgraded so as not to appear racist. There are all manner of issues there and in Leicester, Rochdale etc. that include abuse within and without the community, Sharia Law, postal vote fixing etc. I would hesitate to say this is always with the collusion of the authorities but rest assured much has been with their knowledge. Excusing it by saying someone else is guilty of something else just does not cut the mustard. Here we have a serious problem on our doorsteps and what are we doing? Arguing the toss over some posers on a football field.
Whole world of diferance between arranged marriage and forced marriage,all you suceed in doing is putting your ignorance on display.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
Whole world of diferance between arranged marriage and forced marriage,all you suceed in doing is putting your ignorance on display.
If that is the sum total of your argument Friskney, I suggest we call it a day. There are more pressing matters on the other board.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Well, the Home Office have been forced to release their report on the background and makeup of grooming gangs and it doesn’t make good reading for the bigots!
Damn, i'm sure all the entirely rational and not at all prejudiced posters citing Asian Grooming Gangs as their response to any kind of anti-islamophobic protest will now reassess their position to a less overtly racist one.
Well, the Home Office have been forced to release their report on the background and makeup of grooming gangs and it doesn’t make good reading for the bigots!
Unlucky lads, maybe listen to people like friskneymariner and aldi_01 who know what they’re talking about in future?
The photos of that grooming gang in Huddersfield don't look very diverse to me.
I don't think anyone has said grooming gangs are exclusively Asian men, as evil extends to all races and ethnicity in some cases, but the reports of the gangs in many of the towns are indeed Asian men. The point remains though, who is taking the knee of behalf of those abused children?
People like friskneymariner and aldi are already doing the work that is needed rather than making gestures. The real danger is the continued hollowing out and underfunding of their services, and anyone who continues to support these cuts must share some blame.
Like has been said, some people prefer prevention whilst others like the virtue signalling and willy-waving that comes after the fact when they can point the finger and jump up & down about harsher sentences. These people have no interest in the victims, only satisfying their own white knight mentality.
The photos of that grooming gang in Huddersfield don't look very diverse to me.
I don't think anyone has said grooming gangs are exclusively Asian men, as evil extends to all races and ethnicity in some cases, but the reports of the gangs in many of the towns are indeed Asian men. The point remains though, who is taking the knee of behalf of those abused children?
Perhaps, it's just a case of highlighting the abuse perpetrated by Asian gangs sells more newspapers than if they were white middle aged blokes, who are a major demographic of said newspapers.
Whatever the results of a poll, even if nearly half of fans attending are against taking the knee why do it?? Why incur the wrath/ the irritation of nearly half your fan base before we have even kicked off? *
Disclaimer. That does not mean nearly half are racist bigots, it just means they have the good sense to know that kneeling down before every game will do sodomist all for ending racism.
For the same reason as 48% of the voters in this country didn't vote to leave the E.U. They lost winner takes all. It's called democracy. Edit...I have actually heard staunch Remainers quote exactly that argument. They were talking bollox too.
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
For the same reason as 48% of the voters in this country didn't vote to leave the E.U. They lost winner takes all. It's called democracy. Edit...I have actually heard staunch Remainers quote exactly that argument. They were talking bollox too.
Well, the Home Office have been forced to release their report on the background and makeup of grooming gangs and it doesn’t make good reading for the bigots!
Unlucky lads, maybe listen to people like friskneymariner and aldi_01 who know what they’re talking about in future?
You really should quote properly.
The report says -
“Research has found that group-based CSE offenders are most commonly white. Some studies suggest an over-representation of black and Asian offenders . . . However, it is not possible to conclude that this is representative of all group-based CSE offending,” it said.
“This is due to issues such as data quality problems, the way the samples were selected in studies, and the potential for bias and inaccuracies in the way that ethnicity data is collected.”
To me this does not read like a ringing endorsement for proof, only that evidence was not forthcoming.
Personally I doubt if it would ever be possible to collect reliable evidence because of the way data was officially collated in each area and each instance, bearing in mind also the unofficial amendments to data.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
So, there's no evidence. Let's remember that next time somebody posts about the "Asian rape gangs" meme. It needs to be a case of dealing with the "Criminal rape gangs", regardless of the ethnicity of the criminals. Whoever is committing this type of crime, it is only a tiny fraction of the population, thankfully, so you'd hope the police and social services could do a better job trying to stamp it out as much as possible.
So, there's no evidence. Let's remember that next time somebody posts about the "Asian rape gangs" meme. It needs to be a case of dealing with the "Criminal rape gangs", regardless of the ethnicity of the criminals. Whoever is committing this type of crime, it is only a tiny fraction of the population, thankfully, so you'd hope the police and social services could do a better job trying to stamp it out as much as possible.
What do you mean there is no evidence??????????
Many many men of Pakistani origin are in prison for a start, all convicted of rape of many underage white girls.
Then we have the witness statements from people whose lives have been ruined. How would you feel if it was your daughter? Would you blithely say "there is no evidence?"
What more evidence would you like? It is a fact of life that Asian rape gangs have, and are still according to the Sky report and others, committing the most vile and disgusting acts on vulnerable white girls in a lot of our towns and cities.
So, there's no evidence. Let's remember that next time somebody posts about the "Asian rape gangs" meme. It needs to be a case of dealing with the "Criminal rape gangs", regardless of the ethnicity of the criminals. Whoever is committing this type of crime, it is only a tiny fraction of the population, thankfully, so you'd hope the police and social services could do a better job trying to stamp it out as much as possible.
Sorry, this just made me laugh. Presumably you have either not read or not understood the quote from the actual report (as opposed to the Independent's version).
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
And no doubt if fans are allowed in there will be no booing, just applause.
I wonder if that clapping might be rather slow and rhythmic. Or would that be banned too?
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
And no doubt if fans are allowed in there will be no booing, just applause.
I wonder if that clapping might be rather slow and rhythmic. Or would that be banned too?
The objection to a 5 second kneel from some is truly mind boggling It’s really got nothing to do with you at all. If you can’t see the merit in it, keep quiet & ignore or don’t get upset when people call you out in return.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
The objection to a 5 second kneel from some is truly mind boggling It’s really got nothing to do with you at all. If you can’t see the merit in it, keep quiet & ignore or don’t get upset when people call you out in return.
Excuse my asking Lord Stadium, Sir/Madam. ...... but who says it is nothing to do with me and by whose orders should I keep quiet or not get upset?
Have you been granted censorship rights over the Fishy?
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
The objection to a 5 second kneel from some is truly mind boggling It’s really got nothing to do with you at all. If you can’t see the merit in it, keep quiet & ignore or don’t get upset when people call you out in return.
I see in today's papers there is the result of a court case that has overturned (not before time) the attempt to shut everybody down who does not agree with everything woke. I think the pendulum has swung too far and now the balance needs to be addressed. Everyone has the right to free speech, just because it does not conform to the current mass hysteria is not for you to "call out."
An awful lot of people don't see the merit in it, as has been demonstrated in this thread.
I see in today's papers there is the result of a court case that has overturned (not before time) the attempt to shut everybody down who does not agree with everything woke. I think the pendulum has swung too far and now the balance needs to be addressed. Everyone has the right to free speech, just because it does not conform to the current mass hysteria is not for you to "call out."
An awful lot of people don't see the merit in it, as has been demonstrated in this thread.
Who mentioned shutting people down? You can basically boo,comment or do whatever you like.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
Not all. The options are all open to you as I stated.
Unbelievable!
Yes Sir but please Sir, I don't like YOUR options Sir. Why can't I have some options of my own please Sir?
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
If you read your reply to RRFC shutting him down is exactly what you propose!!!!!!!!!!!!
To clarify. It's the players decision to carry on with it if they wish & not the fans. No one is suggesting "shutting people" down. The options are keep quiet,ignore or express an opinion. Be prepared to be called out on it if you do.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
To clarify. It's the players decision to carry on with it if they wish & not the fans. No one is suggesting "shutting people" down. The options are keep quiet,ignore or express an opinion. Be prepared to be called out on it if you do.
Lighten up mate. I knew what you meant. Not everything has to be doom and gloom on the Fishy.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Millwall and Colchester United will not face disciplinary action after some of their supporters booed while players took the knee earlier this month.
The incidents came in the first home games for the clubs with fans present.
The Football Association says it has completed a full investigation.
"Anyone who chooses to take the knee will continue to receive our support as they highlight the inequality and injustice experienced by the Black community," an FA statement read.
Players have been taking a knee at the start of matches since football returned after the first Covid-19 lockdown.
While matches were suspended, the Black Lives Matter movement gathered momentum in the wake of the death of George Floyd in the United States.
Both Millwall and Colchester strongly condemned the actions of the minority of fans who booed.
The incidents drew wide condemnation, although some people against taking the knee felt it had become a political symbol.
"To be clear, we do not see taking the knee as a political symbol, and would contend that there can now be no doubt as to what the gesture means in a footballing context," the FA added.
"Therefore, going forward, The FA will continue to monitor and investigate should similar crowd-related incidents occur.
"The FA continues to support all players and clubs that wish to take a stand against any form of discrimination, and will always condemn the behaviours of anyone that chooses to actively oppose these values."
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
I can see where this website is heading. Go with the flow with the loud multipal posters opinions like a good little boy or be non platformed as was tried on another thread. Load of balderdash.
I can see where this website is heading. Go with the flow with the loud multipal posters opinions like a good little boy or be non platformed as was tried on another thread. Load of balderdash.
It depends how sensitive you are. I have no problem with Ska and Stadium and co. and their opinions even if I heartily disagree at times and say so. There is no personal animosity ....... I hope!
This is a forum and it is about the view we see printed on the screen not about the person on the keyboard. I was always taught "Don't shoot the messenger." One thing we cannot do with The Fishy is to let it ever become a place where opinions are "called out" for no other reason than that they offend someone's sensibilities. Another is to use the board for untrue or unfounded personal attacks. We are adults in the main so we should behave like grown ups. Simple enough to me.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
It depends how sensitive you are. I have no problem with Ska and Stadium and co. and their opinions even if I heartily disagree at times and say so. There is no personal animosity ....... I hope!
This is a forum and it is about the view we see printed on the screen not about the person on the keyboard. I was always taught "Don't shoot the messenger." One thing we cannot do with The Fishy is to let it ever become a place where opinions are "called out" for no other reason than that they offend someone's sensibilities. Another is to use the board for untrue or unfounded personal attacks. We are adults in the main so we should behave like grown ups. Simple enough to me.
This.
“There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire.”- Murray Walker
An interesting article by Dan Hodges today detailing how the report published about grooming gangs was literally a "whitewash."
Home office officials and civil servants do not want us to know the full extent of the problem quoting it is not in the "public interest."
It is no good at all trying to sweep scandals like this under the carpet, people have a right to know the truth.
Two Home secretaries have been thwarted at every turn by PC officials, desperate to keep the lid on the real situation, citing no "hard data" exists about the ethnicity of the offenders. Sarah Champion the Labour MP for Rotherham says there are between 500 - 1000 Asian grooming gang members in Britains jails, so what further hard evidence do they need? A brave lady is Sarah Champion who was sacked by Jeremy Corbyn for daring to write about the true situation.
It really is a shameful situation and will only get worse as more offenders are prosecuted.
Two Home secretaries have been thwarted at every turn by PC officials, desperate to keep the lid on the real situation, citing no "hard data" exists about the ethnicity of the offenders. Sarah Champion the Labour MP for Rotherham says there are between 500 - 1000 Asian grooming gang members in Britains jails, so what further hard evidence do they need?
What the article actually attributed to Sarah Champion was:
‘But as Labour's Sarah Champion said: 'There are almost 100 people in jail now for grooming in and around Rotherham. Nationally there are between 500 and 1,000 people in jail for these offences. That's quite a decent sample size isn't it? Why doesn't the Home Office simply sit down with those offenders, interview them, and create an offenders' profile from that?'
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
What the article actually attributed to Sarah Champion was:
‘But as Labour's Sarah Champion said: 'There are almost 100 people in jail now for grooming in and around Rotherham. Nationally there are between 500 and 1,000 people in jail for these offences. That's quite a decent sample size isn't it? Why doesn't the Home Office simply sit down with those offenders, interview them, and create an offenders' profile from that?'
A fair enough point. However, coming from an MP who has campaigned about the abuse of white underage girls by Asian gangs for years , the inference is clear - look at the actual offenders in prison and then come to a conclusion instead of hiding behind the excuse there is no "hard data."
A fair enough point. However, coming from an MP who has campaigned about the abuse of white underage girls by Asian gangs for years , the inference is clear - look at the actual offenders in prison and then come to a conclusion instead of hiding behind the excuse there is no "hard data."
The inference is clear to you given your viewpoint and you have attempted to add certain words to suit your narrative. The problem is when you take the quote from what essentially is an opinion piece and change it, you dilute and distort what may have already been paraphrased or twisted for the purpose of the article. My point is your credibility is then questionable and that’s counterproductive to a proper discussion.
I personally think there is a discussion to be had about this issue. But if we only look as far as our own biases all we get are two diametrically opposed groups stating and restating the same old points.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
The inference is clear to you given your viewpoint and you have attempted to add certain words to suit your narrative. The problem is when you take the quote from what essentially is an opinion piece and change it, you dilute and distort what may have already been paraphrased or twisted for the purpose of the article. My point is your credibility is then questionable and that’s counterproductive to a proper discussion.
I personally think there is a discussion to be had about this issue. But if we only look as far as our own biases all we get are two diametrically opposed groups stating and restating the same old points.
Again fair enough - I did extrapolate from the 100 offenders in jail in the Rotherham area to the 500 - 1000 in jail throughout the country are Asian. Yes, I am assuming she meant the 100 in Rotherham are Asian but I think I can be forgiven for that because that was the whole thrust of the article, and she has spent a large part of her career campaigning on the issue of Asian rape gangs.
I don't think there needs to be a discussion in the sense of defining the problem. The facts are self-evident in that we have an ongoing problem of Asian rape gangs targeting white underage girls.
You are right in that we all have a bias on this and most things in life - other posters were keen to point out the official report lessened the extent of the problem, and I am keen to point out it was a whitewash.
The inference is clear to you given your viewpoint and you have attempted to add certain words to suit your narrative. The problem is when you take the quote from what essentially is an opinion piece and change it, you dilute and distort what may have already been paraphrased or twisted for the purpose of the article. My point is your credibility is then questionable and that’s counterproductive to a proper discussion.
I personally think there is a discussion to be had about this issue. But if we only look as far as our own biases all we get are two diametrically opposed groups stating and restating the same old points.
Again fair enough - I did extrapolate from the 100 offenders in jail in the Rotherham area to the 500 - 1000 in jail throughout the country are Asian. Yes, I am assuming she meant the 100 in Rotherham are Asian but I think I can be forgiven for that because that was the whole thrust of the article, and she has spent a large part of her career campaigning on the issue of Asian rape gangs.
I don't think there needs to be a discussion in the sense of defining the problem. The facts are self-evident in that we have an ongoing problem of Asian rape gangs targeting white underage girls.
You are right in that we all have a bias on this and most things in life - other posters were keen to point out the official report lessened the extent of the problem, and I am keen to point out it was a whitewash.
I’m well aware of Sarah Champion and her fight against abuse full stop. I’m also not daft enough to realise that given her profile she’s well known for cases involving Asian grooming gangs. I’m not for 1 second going to deny their existence historically or be stupid enough to think they’re not around now either, or will continue to be in the future sadly.
I do not believe grooming gangs are exclusively Asian just as I don’t believe all lone paedophiles are white. The commonality among all these perpetrators is their crime, and their predilection is to abuse and therefore we must do all we can to combat the problems. However, If there is a pattern of behaviour or characteristics that go beyond the crime, we should absolutely investigate it. I do believe in the process of profiling these crimes and the abusers as part of a plan to disrupt future crimes in the same way as profiling is used in other areas. But it is also a fine line and dangerous to make broad generalisations too.
It’s clearly a delicate process and we must be guided by hard In depth evidence and experts with knowledge and experience in key areas from a multitude of backgrounds That’s why when people on here with knowledge of the care system like friskney talk I tend to listen to their views. First hand knowledge and experience is priceless.
“I know writers who use subtext and they’re all cowards.” –Garth Marenghi
I’m well aware of Sarah Champion and her fight against abuse full stop. I’m also not daft enough to realise that given her profile she’s well known for cases involving Asian grooming gangs. I’m not for 1 second going to deny their existence historically or be stupid enough to think they’re not around now either, or will continue to be in the future sadly.
I do not believe grooming gangs are exclusively Asian just as I don’t believe all lone paedophiles are white. The commonality among all these perpetrators is their crime, and their predilection is to abuse and therefore we must do all we can to combat the problems. However, If there is a pattern of behaviour or characteristics that go beyond the crime, we should absolutely investigate it. I do believe in the process of profiling these crimes and the abusers as part of a plan to disrupt future crimes in the same way as profiling is used in other areas. But it is also a fine line and dangerous to make broad generalisations too.
It’s clearly a delicate process and we must be guided by hard In depth evidence and experts with knowledge and experience in key areas from a multitude of backgrounds That’s why when people on here with knowledge of the care system like friskney talk I tend to listen to their views. First hand knowledge and experience is priceless.
I am sure you are well aware of all the issues involved, I guess most posters are. What is not clear though, is why some posters even now refuse to put the blame where it lies - at the door of Asian rape gangs who systematically abused under age, predominately white girls by raping them, forcing them to watch rape, and were ruthless in their control of them by doing things like dousing them in petrol if they ever dared to disobey.
I re-read a summary of the public enquiry into the Rotherham sex abuse scandal, which confirmed it was predominately white girls abused by predominately Asian men of Pakistani origin with the willful neglect of the police, the council and community leaders thrown in for good measure.
The idea that a report could come out years later to try to paint a different story is grotesque, but some posters on here could not hide their refusal to accept the truth, preferring instead to point the finger at people who dared to tell the truth.
I’m well aware of Sarah Champion and her fight against abuse full stop. I’m also not daft enough to realise that given her profile she’s well known for cases involving Asian grooming gangs. I’m not for 1 second going to deny their existence historically or be stupid enough to think they’re not around now either, or will continue to be in the future sadly.
I do not believe grooming gangs are exclusively Asian just as I don’t believe all lone paedophiles are white. The commonality among all these perpetrators is their crime, and their predilection is to abuse and therefore we must do all we can to combat the problems. However, If there is a pattern of behaviour or characteristics that go beyond the crime, we should absolutely investigate it. I do believe in the process of profiling these crimes and the abusers as part of a plan to disrupt future crimes in the same way as profiling is used in other areas. But it is also a fine line and dangerous to make broad generalisations too.
It’s clearly a delicate process and we must be guided by hard In depth evidence and experts with knowledge and experience in key areas from a multitude of backgrounds That’s why when people on here with knowledge of the care system like friskney talk I tend to listen to their views. First hand knowledge and experience is priceless.
That is the whole point. The commonality of the crimes in Rotherham, Rochdale etc. lies in the culture of the perpetrators. It goes beyond sexual gratification onto the defiling of particular girls whose own background and culture is denigrated deliberately by those perpetrators.
"Some Muslim men involved in cases where young white girls have been abused view them as "worthless", the head of the UK's Ramadhan Foundation has said.
Mohammed Shafiq told Sky News: "There is a minority of criminals involved in sexual abuse of children in on-street gang grooming who view white girls as worthless.
"They think they can be used in this abhorrent sort of way where they can be seen as trash."
Now, they may indeed be a minority but there is no doubt that the sexist attitudes within some Asian communities contributes not only to the commission of the crimes but also to the covering up of them.
Then you must add on to that the reluctance of authorities and the police to even investigate on occasion because of a fear of appearing racist.
We cannot simply keep on excusing this as a minority happening. The police were happy to believe a Walter Mitty about a non-existent child abuse ring when it allegedly contained wealthy and powerful white male persons, yet strangely reluctant to delve into the organised paedophilia we are talking about here deliberately aimed at young white girls. Also worth noting here that some of those girls were not care residents when first approached but normal teenagers from good homes seduced by money and gifts and someone showing an interest.
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.” ― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty."
Before taking an emotional uninformed view on this subject, please take the time out to read the works or watch the videos of Thomas Sowell. One of the greatest and most learned Americans of all time.. He dissects the whole US racial divide debate completely, where it's going wrong and how to address it..
Before taking an emotional uninformed view on this subject, please take the time out to read the works or watch the videos of Thomas Sowell. One of the greatest and most learned Americans of all time.. He dissects the whole US racial divide debate completely, where it's going wrong and how to address it..
Watching his YouTube videos he speaks perfect sense very clever man. I was surprised to hear he was once a Marxist, which goes to show with the right propaganda, even the most intelligent amongst us can be seduced.
This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.
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