Is anyone else getting concerned with Artell’s interviews?
Last week he declared that we are “definitely not” getting relegated this season (a naive, at best, statement which reminds me of one of Keith Hill’s lines at Scunthorpe) and after Mansfield today he believes we were by far the better team in the first half? I’m not sure which game he was watching as Mansfield looked like a team way higher up the football pyramid than us all game.
Is anyone else getting concerned with Artell’s interviews?
Last week he declared that we are “definitely not” getting relegated this season (a naive, at best, statement which reminds me of one of Keith Hill’s lines at Scunthorpe) and after Mansfield today he believes we were by far the better team in the first half? I’m not sure which game he was watching as Mansfield looked like a team way higher up the football pyramid than us all game.
Whatever he says will be scrutinised but I don’t it’s unreasonable to say that we could have scored more than once in the first half but were crap in the second half. Think that was a fair enough assessment.
He's correct in so far as we had a shitload of opportunities in the first half, mostly ruined by Clifton being indecisive, and also managed to hit both the bar and post and forced their keeper into 3 or 4 very good saves. Both the goals we conceded were self-inflicted - the first came from Rodgers stupidly hanging a lazy leg out to deflect the ball past Cartwright who would have otherwise saved comfortably, and then the second came from a combination of Efete, Conteh and Gnahoua all deciding they couldn't be arsed to close down their midfielder and he punished us with a very good low strike into the corner.
Artell additionally said today that the second half was unacceptable, which is correct. I also have no issue with him saying we're definitely not getting relegated after a poor performance (which came after a string of improved performances) to try and instill confidence in a squad he's inherited which is clearly lacking it. Coming out and slating the players in the media isn't going to lead to improved result and performances, but in today's post match interview he inferred that his feedback behind closed doors to the players had been a lot stronger than what he'd said publicly (which is again the correct thing to do).
I have to be honest I am getting a little concerned.
His post match interviews seem overly optimistic, given the level of performance in the last 2 games.
The corner debacle just a few days ago and it not being changed mid game
Lack of tatical changes when things go wrong. Any sort of changes really.....
We seem to get worked out very quickly
No plan b
Complete collapse in the 2nd half or at the very least a much poorer 2nd half compared with the 1st half.
Manager bounce didn't last very long.
He has a crap squad to work with....that isnt his fault. Certain individuals today, for instance, wasted 3-4 excellent opportunities that could have , arguably should have, resulted in goal attempts....instead all went begging largely due to the inability of one player to be able to run with a football.
He also has an extremely limited pool of pace and strikers so difficult to introduce "game changers" currently.
2023/24 DLWDDWDLLLWDLLLLWDDDWDLLWLDLLDWDDWLLDWLWLW 2022/23LDWDWWDWLLDWWDLLLDLWLLWLWLLWDDLDWWDDDLLWDWLWLW 2021/22 WDWWWWDLWWWWLLLWLLDLWLLWWDWWWLWDLWWDWWWDLWD play offs WWW Promoted 🥳 2020/21 LLDWWLDLDWLWLLLDLWLLDLLDLLLWLLLDDDDWDDDLWLWLWL .. hello darkness my old friend 2019/20 WDLDWWLDLWWLLLDLDLDLDDWWDLLWDDWWL WLLW - ended 2018/19 LWDDLLLLLLWWDWLLLWDWLWWWWLLLLWWWWDLLLDDLLDLWLW Hello Scunny
He's correct in so far as we had a shitload of opportunities in the first half, mostly ruined by Clifton being indecisive, and also managed to hit both the bar and post and forced their keeper into 3 or 4 very good saves. Both the goals we conceded were self-inflicted - the first came from Rodgers stupidly hanging a lazy leg out to deflect the ball past Cartwright who would have otherwise saved comfortably, and then the second came from a combination of Efete, Conteh and Gnahoua all deciding they couldn't be arsed to close down their midfielder and he punished us with a very good low strike into the corner.
Artell additionally said today that the second half was unacceptable, which is correct. I also have no issue with him saying we're definitely not getting relegated after a poor performance (which came after a string of improved performances) to try and instill confidence in a squad he's inherited which is clearly lacking it. Coming out and slating the players in the media isn't going to lead to improved result and performances, but in today's post match interview he inferred that his feedback behind closed doors to the players had been a lot stronger than what he'd said publicly (which is again the correct thing to do).
I have to be honest I am getting a little concerned.
His post match interviews seem overly optimistic, given the level of performance in the last 2 games.
The corner debacle just a few days ago and it not being changed mid game
Lack of tatical changes when things go wrong. Any sort of changes really.....
We seem to get worked out very quickly
No plan b
Complete collapse in the 2nd half or at the very least a much poorer 2nd half compared with the 1st half.
Manager bounce didn't last very long.
What plan B can you put in place? We’ve no pace, no height and little physicality so going long is out the question. We certainly don’t have centre backs capable of playing 3 at the back or centre mids good enough to play as just a pairing in the middle. We only have two out and out strikers in the whole squad and one of them has spent half the season injured. Essentially our squad is found so wanting that if the starting eleven and formation isn’t working, there’s virtually no formation change or personnel that will change things in a positive way.
Hurst was normally reasonably good at building squads but this squad is just bad in so many ways. It’s galling that he’s seemingly wasted the FA cup money building one of the worst squads in the club’s history.
His first interview sounded like a caveman with a lot of grunts and not a lot of coherence. The next couple were better and he spoke well even though I think most of what all managers say is balderdash.
The last couple are worrying especially with the performances that go with them. I don't think you can turn most league 2 footballers into the type of player he's setting us up to require. Inheriting the end of Dario Gradi's phenomenal era of youth players at Crewe might mean he got success with it, but I doubt it's possible to do that at Grimsby Town with a perpetually low budget.
His first interview sounded like a caveman with a lot of grunts and not a lot of coherence. The next couple were better and he spoke well even though I think most of what all managers say is balderdash.
The last couple are worrying especially with the performances that go with them. I don't think you can turn most league 2 footballers into the type of player he's setting us up to require. Inheriting the end of Dario Gradi's phenomenal era of youth players at Crewe might mean he got success with it, but I doubt it's possible to do that at Grimsby Town with a perpetually low budget.
Just a simple question for you.
Would you care to elaborate your comments with the occasional fact so we could decide whether you’re on to something or just on something?
Because, at present, it looks like you’re spouting a load of bollox.
What plan B can you put in place? We’ve no pace, no height and little physicality so going long is out the question. We certainly don’t have centre backs capable of playing 3 at the back or centre mids good enough to play as just a pairing in the middle. We only have two out and out strikers in the whole squad and one of them has spent half the season injured. Essentially our squad is found so wanting that if the starting eleven and formation isn’t working, there’s virtually no formation change or personnel that will change things in a positive way.
Hurst was normally reasonably good at building squads but this squad is just bad in so many ways. It’s galling that he’s seemingly wasted the FA cup money building one of the worst squads in the club’s history.
It's becoming apparent the summer window wasn't as good as we hoped , it's actually borderline disaster even halfway through the season - Cartwright is a slight improvement on Crocombe for me and Danny Rose WOULD be good with able support (he must be shaking his head with his decision to go from an easy gig as 4th choice striker at Stevenage to being the only striker with us ,having to put in an overly stupid amount of work up top by himself ) just to be closer to home .
We have done our regular thing of letting people go and replacing with worse or not at all .
The midfield individually might be ok but the combination of most of them together isn't unless we are given time to play which you are not most of the time in league 2 .
Rodgers looks a relegated player and his confidence is shot ,Maher also seems to have gone backwards . Michee looked lost today second half him , Conteh and Eisa looked like they didnt want to be there . One of our own Harry was dreadful aswell , really bad he just isn't a CM with enough quality - i like him on the left though .
There is no depth in the squad I would take Mcatee, Taylor , Mani and Abraham up top Over just Danny Rose , Pyke was a right back for 2 seasons before signing for us , weird signing , Wilson not so weird but has been injured most of the time so far .
Lost for words how bad we were today ,we just have to hope we have got the Artell that did so well for Crewe in his first couple of years and not the one who went scattergun on signings in the last season , 16 games without a win .
The last 2 games have shown we have not got the calibre of players that our opponents have and that’s not the fault of David Artell, prior to the 2 defeats I was optimistic that he could get this group of players playing the way he wants and at times he looked like he was succeeding but for some reason the players have not continued the game plans that he set out for them. We definitely need an upgrade in the team but wether he can do this during the January transfer window is a big ask and if you remember January of this year we were really disappointed in what PH brought in as good players aren’t usually available in this transfer window. Slightly worried but I think we will survive. UTM
Dead Eye Dobbin stood motionless waiting, waiting, waiting for the ball to arrive. Back came the right foot, Down came the right foot, Bang ! Headlines around the world as the ball flew into the very top right hand corner of the goal.( Jim Dobbin scoring in the 89th minute for Town against Newcastle United away 24/10/1992 )
Its ok thinking that we will be ok this season but yet again some are thinking we will be ok after the summer window .. Will we tho.. No one knows for sure how much was spent this season but if most of our budget only got us what we have got now it doesnt look good for next season
Its ok thinking that we will be ok this season but yet again some are thinking we will be ok after the summer window .. Will we tho.. No one knows for sure how much was spent this season but if most of our budget only got us what we have got now it doesnt look good for next season
There's no way that teams like Morecambe, Accrington, Barrow, Harrogate, Crewe or Walsall are spending significantly more than us but they currently have much better squads. In the summer we'll have loads out of contract: Amos, Glennon, Waterfall, Efete, Maher, Eisa, Holohan, Ainley, Khan, Clifton and Gnahoua are all out of contract. Out of them I'd probably want to keep Gnahoua and Clifton but not bothered about the rest really. Even then Clifton isn't a good central midfielder for L2 but his versatility and energy is useful to have in the squad. It won't quite be a clean slate next summer but it won't be far off it. Just need to make sure we get enough in as reinforcements in January to stay up first.
There's no way that teams like Morecambe, Accrington, Barrow, Harrogate, Crewe or Walsall are spending significantly more than us but they currently have much better squads. In the summer we'll have loads out of contract: Amos, Glennon, Waterfall, Efete, Maher, Eisa, Holohan, Ainley, Khan, Clifton and Gnahoua are all out of contract. Out of them I'd probably want to keep Gnahoua and Clifton but not bothered about the rest really. Even then Clifton isn't a good central midfielder for L2 but his versatility and energy is useful to have in the squad. It won't quite be a clean slate next summer but it won't be far off it. Just need to make sure we get enough in as reinforcements in January to stay up first.
I’d keep Glennon but I think (and hope) Green is another out of contract.
“The owners made provision in the accounts for ground repairs so Paul didn’t have the money we thought he’d get but still got more than he’d ever hoped for. To add to that between him & Joe Hutchinson they signed players with good lap top stats from the tracker in their vests but to a man zero appetite & resilience”.
“Add to that Paul left it too late to bring in an experienced keeper, put too much faith in too many NL level players despite a few of them having good contribution in the cup run and we only have one half decent striker”.
DA is an experienced manager who’s inherited a squad that you wouldn’t say was Hurst like. If you must judge him do it in May at the earliest.
It’s not broken but there’s lots to fix .
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
In the summer we'll have loads out of contract: Amos, Glennon, Waterfall, Efete, Maher, Eisa, Holohan, Ainley, Khan, Clifton and Gnahoua are all out of contract
With all of those out of contract in the summer it may be a lot easier to ship some of them out in January by stating they arent likely to get much, if any, playing time, and to find another club where they could get the playing time they want.
With all of those out of contract in the summer it may be a lot easier to ship some of them out in January by stating they arent likely to get much, if any, playing time, and to find another club where they could get the playing time they want.
Who’s going to want them? More importantly, who’s going to pay them off?
Let’s face it . We’re fooking male masturbation and will be off a long time until we get lucky and DA or another manager manages to throw a team together who gels because it’s evident that PH couldn’t manage to buy a decent squad with a fa cup QF purse behind him .
Who’s going to want them? More importantly, who’s going to pay them off?
It’s not a given that players that leave are paid off at our level. Remember they’re on a fixed term contract, it’s quite possible that as most of them will have less than 2 years service they could be terminated with a month or three of PILON and with a few extra weeks by way of a compromise agreement.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
It’s not a given that players that leave are paid off at our level. Remember they’re on a fixed term contract, it’s quite possible that as most of them will have less than 2 years service they could be terminated with a month or three of PILON and with a few extra weeks by way of a compromise agreement.
I'm not sure you can terminate someone on a fixed term contract and not pay up that contract fully without an agreement from the employee.
I'm not sure you can terminate someone on a fixed term contract and not pay up that contract fully without an agreement from the employee.
Will all depend on the terms of an individual player’s contract but I agree that with the use of agents I would doubt any club are in a position to terminate a contract by giving the “maximum” three months notice that applies to the vast majority of the UK workforce. In January the odd player may accept 3 months money and leave but only if he’s going straight to another club thus his PILON is just a bit of extra dosh.
We desperately need to introduce both quality and physicality into the side and a couple of early January signings would give us all a lift.
Artell has taken over in a similarish position to how Hurst did, just outside the drop zone and close to a January transfer window, Hurst ultimately saw the team relegated and was given an relatively easy time of it here on the fishy. If the worst does happen this season will Artell be given a free pass to continue as Hurst was?
I think another relegation to non league could be terminal, the fan base has had enough of a quarter of a century of rubbish and season ticket sales would collapse.
I think you’ll see a few players depart in January. I think Khan will be the first to go, it’s clear DA doesn’t see him in his plans as he’s been absent out the matchday squad for the past 2/3 games and as far as i’m aware isn’t injured. The moving players on part could be a struggle but most of the players not involved should be able to find NL clubs quite easily, it’ll be dependant on whether they’re willing to drop down a level or sit on a bench for 6 months collecting a paycheck.
I think another relegation to non league could be terminal, the fan base has had enough of a quarter of a century of rubbish and season ticket sales would collapse.
It's becoming apparent the summer window wasn't as good as we hoped , it's actually borderline disaster even halfway through the season - Cartwright is a slight improvement on Crocombe for me and Danny Rose WOULD be good with able support (he must be shaking his head with his decision to go from an easy gig as 4th choice striker at Stevenage to being the only striker with us ,having to put in an overly stupid amount of work up top by himself ) just to be closer to home .
We have done our regular thing of letting people go and replacing with worse or not at all .
The midfield individually might be ok but the combination of most of them together isn't unless we are given time to play which you are not most of the time in league 2 .
Rodgers looks a relegated player and his confidence is shot ,Maher also seems to have gone backwards . Michee looked lost today second half him , Conteh and Eisa looked like they didnt want to be there . One of our own Harry was dreadful aswell , really bad he just isn't a CM with enough quality - i like him on the left though .
There is no depth in the squad I would take Mcatee, Taylor , Mani and Abraham up top Over just Danny Rose , Pyke was a right back for 2 seasons before signing for us , weird signing , Wilson not so weird but has been injured most of the time so far .
Lost for words how bad we were today ,we just have to hope we have got the Artell that did so well for Crewe in his first couple of years and not the one who went scattergun on signings in the last season , 16 games without a win .
I honestly don’t think Artells up to it.... of course I hope I am wrong but given our league position, how awful the squad is and the depth of experience in this league, I believe Artell has no experience when it comes to the issues being faced... I hate to think it, but I do believe we will drop into NL next season at which point Artell will leave... he really isn’t up to it.. sorry
I’ve not been impressed with his interviews. I don’t think he comes across particularly well. But I wouldn’t care about that a single jot, if he’s realistic in what he says. And I cannot abide “could have” or “should have” comments. I’d prefer “we haven’t taken our chances in the first half, we’ve created a few which is good, but we must finish more of those chances. Mansfield have created a good few chances too in the first half, and scored two, snd that’s why they are looking strong promotion contenders. So that’s what we’ve got to do, to improve and get us where we need to be”.
That’s the sort of post match comments I want to hear from my manager. Not daft comments that we could have been 4 nil up at half time.
I think we have a big issue with lack of quality in the squad, which is both disappointing and ironic, given that we’ve spent some money this season.
David Artel has a huge job on his hands, and we MUST make signings in January. He must not hang his hat on this assertion that we are far too good to go down. We are not. And we’ve seen many occasions where that old cliche has been proved to be incorrect.
David has to now get us to safety, because make no mistake, we are heading towards a relegation survival battle. Then he has to rebuild for a better L2 campaign next season. Putting aside the quality of the players for a moment, we are now heading into a few months in which it will become evident whether or not we’ve got the right manager in to replace Paul Hurst
That is a load of trite nonsense.
In this post, you have failed to grasp the basic concept that the manager you wanted to keep has put together a squad that has us back in danger again. This is Hurst’s squad not Artell’s.
In this post, you have failed to grasp the basic concept that the manager you wanted to keep has put together a squad that has us back in danger again. This is Hurst’s squad not Artell’s.
This is Hurst's squad that Artell is trying to get to play his style of football when many aren't up to that. I'm fortunate enough that I didn't watch the game yesterday, but Mansfield are a really good side. The stats show that they absolutely dominated us, and showed that in the first half.
Even though I didn't watch it, when Artell started asserting that we should have been 4-1 up at half time, that did concern me. Had Clifton not messed up his chance it would have been a completely different game. I think he could be u-turning on his assertion that we definitely won't go down soon too.
Town competed for the first 15 minutes, then found tbat Mansfield were faster, more physical, more accurate with their passing and could keep us chasing tails all over the field.
Rose becomes more isolated, our passing slowly gets more raggy, yet we create chances to score at least 2 or 3 goals, none of which were taken.
Then all the previous bad habits come in, with slow passing, poor positional sense, lowering of running and effort and hence sloppy play.
How can pro players NOT be able to easily trap a ball and pass it properly??
That is the fan frustration, if players graft and other team's players are just better, then you have to take it. Lack of some simple skill levels are more gutting, as you then ask what is actually done in training sessions?
Town competed for the first 15 minutes, then found tbat Mansfield were faster, more physical, more accurate with their passing and could keep us chasing tails all over the field.
Rose becomes more isolated, our passing slowly gets more raggy, yet we create chances to score at least 2 or 3 goals, none of which were taken.
Then all the previous bad habits come in, with slow passing, poor positional sense, lowering of running and effort and hence sloppy play.
How can pro players NOT be able to easily trap a ball and pass it properly??
That is the fan frustration, if players graft and other team's players are just better, then you have to take it. Lack of some simple skill levels are more gutting, as you then ask what is actually done in training sessions?
Several of our squad, Hurst’s squad simply lack the ability to pass and move into space. That then puts pressure on others and they don’t have viable options. Even the likes of Harrogate and Newport had options to pass to but we’ve reverted to type.
Our present travails have nothing to do with Artell, the way he comes across in interviews or anything else. He has inherited a very poor, disjointed one paced squad. He is doing his best to try to instill some confidence into the players, most of whom he will have to work with for some time yet.
I wish him well because if it really did go belly up would we ever recover?
This really should re emphasise to the owners the only important thing is what happens on the field. What they might want to achieve eventually will have to wait till we have a bit of sustained success on the field.
We need 2/3 players at least in January who can play at this level just to do a job on keeping us up , forget styles of play just lads who are of level 4 standard be it on loan or short term buys. Sadly almost every one of our squad look below the required standard and most will end up non league players. I fully support DA it takes time but the window saves us if he’s supported if not we’re in the bottom 4 somewhere
I was so angry last night never been so p!ssed off watching a town team. It's like they accepted that Mansfield was a better team so stopped trying in the second half. We really do need 4-5 experienced pro's to come in January to give the team a face-lift. Not keeping a clean-sheet in over 20 games in the League is criminal and makes for that of a team destined for relegation. I'm aware we aren't going to be world beaters overnight but surely you build from the back be hard to beat then go from there?
Atleast another Centre-Back is needed in January. I've not been impressed with Mullarkey or Efete and I think that the right back spot is another we need a change in. Two midfielders that feel comfortable receiving a ball under pressure and can make a 5-yard pass.
I honestly don’t think Artells up to it.... of course I hope I am wrong but given our league position, how awful the squad is and the depth of experience in this league, I believe Artell has no experience when it comes to the issues being faced... I hate to think it, but I do believe we will drop into NL next season at which point Artell will leave... he really isn’t up to it.. sorry
The worst thing about this post, aside from the fact it’s absolute gibberish, is that 5 people agree with you enough to give you a tick.
I’ve not been impressed with his interviews. I don’t think he comes across particularly well. But I wouldn’t care about that a single jot, if he’s realistic in what he says. And I cannot abide “could have” or “should have” comments. I’d prefer “we haven’t taken our chances in the first half, we’ve created a few which is good, but we must finish more of those chances. Mansfield have created a good few chances too in the first half, and scored two, snd that’s why they are looking strong promotion contenders. So that’s what we’ve got to do, to improve and get us where we need to be”.
That’s the sort of post match comments I want to hear from my manager. Not daft comments that we could have been 4 nil up at half time.
I think we have a big issue with lack of quality in the squad, which is both disappointing and ironic, given that we’ve spent some money this season.
David Artel has a huge job on his hands, and we MUST make signings in January. He must not hang his hat on this assertion that we are far too good to go down. We are not. And we’ve seen many occasions where that old cliche has been proved to be incorrect.
David has to now get us to safety, because make no mistake, we are heading towards a relegation survival battle. Then he has to rebuild for a better L2 campaign next season. Putting aside the quality of the players for a moment, we are now heading into a few months in which it will become evident whether or not we’ve got the right manager in to replace Paul Hurst
Some of it does come over as coaches voice talk (almost Jolley MK11) but we need to hope he can walk the walk , as well as talk the talk - tbf to Jolley he did keep a dreadful side in the league that first season and then got found out .
We need Artell to do the same whatever it takes , it all depends if he can get the recruitment right but please god if he can't (Jolley at least realised how limited that team was and set us up to be hard to beat and scrape wins ) and he's stuck with this lot don't continue with total football , with the players + run in we have it could well take us down . I am majorly concerned after that second half more than in a long long time , probably Holloway ball.
He's correct in so far as we had a shitload of opportunities in the first half, mostly ruined by Clifton being indecisive, and also managed to hit both the bar and post and forced their keeper into 3 or 4 very good saves. Both the goals we conceded were self-inflicted - the first came from Rodgers stupidly hanging a lazy leg out to deflect the ball past Cartwright who would have otherwise saved comfortably, and then the second came from a combination of Efete, Conteh and Gnahoua all deciding they couldn't be arsed to close down their midfielder and he punished us with a very good low strike into the corner.
Artell additionally said today that the second half was unacceptable, which is correct. I also have no issue with him saying we're definitely not getting relegated after a poor performance (which came after a string of improved performances) to try and instill confidence in a squad he's inherited which is clearly lacking it. Coming out and slating the players in the media isn't going to lead to improved result and performances, but in today's post match interview he inferred that his feedback behind closed doors to the players had been a lot stronger than what he'd said publicly (which is again the correct thing to do).
Spot on, said it as we saw it. Whilst some would like DA to take a baseball bat into the post-match review in the changing rooms, he has to temper what he says, as there is the next game to consider. I wonder how long the list for some new backup players is?
The worst thing about this post, aside from the fact it’s absolute gibberish, is that 5 people agree with you enough to give you a tick.
There's a post match over reaction, but thinking Artell isn't the right man for this situation isn't completely crazy. He wants to play possession football with players that aren't capable. I understand he wants to play that way, but it should be a project that starts when we're safe and not looking like the 3rd worst team in the league. Even with the sacked manager effect we couldn't beat the bottom 2.
Right now we just need points. It's clear to see that we're not good enough to outplay footballing teams and we're too soft against battling teams.
There's a post match over reaction, but thinking Artell isn't the right man for this situation isn't completely crazy. He wants to play possession football with players that aren't capable. I understand he wants to play that way, but it should be a project that starts when we're safe and not looking like the 3rd worst team in the league. Even with the sacked manager effect we couldn't beat the bottom 2.
Right now we just need points. It's clear to see that we're not good enough to outplay footballing teams and we're too soft against battling teams.
Wow. Something you’ve posted I completely agree with.
Our present travails have nothing to do with Artell, the way he comes across in interviews or anything else. He has inherited a very poor, disjointed one paced squad. He is doing his best to try to instill some confidence into the players, most of whom he will have to work with for some time yet.
I wish him well because if it really did go belly up would we ever recover?
This really should re emphasise to the owners the only important thing is what happens on the field. What they might want to achieve eventually will have to wait till we have a bit of sustained success on the field.
There's a post match over reaction, but thinking Artell isn't the right man for this situation isn't completely crazy. He wants to play possession football with players that aren't capable. I understand he wants to play that way, but it should be a project that starts when we're safe and not looking like the 3rd worst team in the league. Even with the sacked manager effect we couldn't beat the bottom 2.
Right now we just need points. It's clear to see that we're not good enough to outplay footballing teams and we're too soft against battling teams.
To be fair to DA he said, after his first training session with the squad, that he was pleasantly surprised at the quality we had. The problem with a lot of our players seems to be an inability to transfer their skills and attributes from the training pitch to a match scenario. A lot of this could be down to confidence and this is an area where DA could overcome these issues.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Have to say I'm surprised khouri hasnt made it into the squad. He has got the attributes we need ability confidence, can tackle can pass n has some creative skills
To be fair to DA he said, after his first training session with the squad, that he was pleasantly surprised at the quality we had. The problem with a lot of our players seems to be an inability to transfer their skills and attributes from the training pitch to a match scenario. A lot of this could be down to confidence and this is an area where DA could overcome these issues.
I think we have some decent players, we appear short of a couple of leaders and organisers.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Have to say I'm surprised khouri hasnt made it into the squad. He has got the attributes we need ability confidence, can tackle can pass n has some creative skills
Khouri has shown mild promise but never really done anything special. To think throwing a 20 year old with no real experience is going to change things is pretty desperate.
The only decent players we've got are the ones not playing. Then when they get a chance we soon get a reminder why they weren't playing.
There's a post match over reaction, but thinking Artell isn't the right man for this situation isn't completely crazy. He wants to play possession football with players that aren't capable. I understand he wants to play that way, but it should be a project that starts when we're safe and not looking like the 3rd worst team in the league. Even with the sacked manager effect we couldn't beat the bottom 2.
Right now we just need points. It's clear to see that we're not good enough to outplay footballing teams and we're too soft against battling teams.
Nobody complained about the possession based football at MK, Oxford, Crewe or Newport though did they? A bad couple of games and people want us slapping the ball up into outer space.
Artell said from the start it’s going to be painful whilst we build an identity, some days will be good and some bad. The worst thing we could do now is panic ourselves into moving away from the long term plan.
Nobody complained about the possession based football at MK, Oxford, Crewe or Newport though did they? A bad couple of games and people want us slapping the ball up into outer space.
Artell said from the start it’s going to be painful whilst we build an identity, some days will be good and some bad. The worst thing we could do now is panic ourselves into moving away from the long term plan.
Spot on.
I would never advocate losing football games but defeats do make weaknesses more obvious. I’m sure the owners are savvy enough not to listen to some of the crap doing the rounds.
I honestly don’t think Artells up to it.... of course I hope I am wrong but given our league position, how awful the squad is and the depth of experience in this league, I believe Artell has no experience when it comes to the issues being faced... I hate to think it, but I do believe we will drop into NL next season at which point Artell will leave... he really isn’t up to it.. sorry
He took over at Crewe when they were 7 points clear of the relegation places, more importantly on the back of picking up just 2 points from their previous eight games (a winless run that would go on for a further three games making it 2 points from a possible 33). Nevertheless they quite comfortably stayed up in the end and were effectively safe just over two months after he took over and with seven games to play.
The two seasons after that they showed incremental improvements with 15th and 12th placed finishes before finishing 2nd on PPG in 19/20 (they top on goal difference when the season was curtailed but played a game more than Swindon who were awarded the title).
I'd say he is perfectly equipped to deal with the issues at present. What part of his record at this level makes you think he's not up to it?
The worst thing we could do now is panic ourselves into moving away from the long term plan.
Is there ever really a long term plan in football? Managers average a little over a season, they know they will be out in a few months if they don't get the results they need. Bignot and Holloway both spoke of grandiose plans and were gone before you know it. If we lose much more ground any plan will become irrelevant and it will be able about picking up points whatever it takes.
'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. ~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
There's a post match over reaction, but thinking Artell isn't the right man for this situation isn't completely crazy. He wants to play possession football with players that aren't capable. I understand he wants to play that way, but it should be a project that starts when we're safe and not looking like the 3rd worst team in the league. Even with the sacked manager effect we couldn't beat the bottom 2.
Right now we just need points. It's clear to see that we're not good enough to outplay footballing teams and we're too soft against battling teams.
This is why I argued that we should have pushed the boat out to get the Cowley brothers. I don’t doubt there’s probably a decent coach in Artell, but I can see us dropping a lot of points through not being pragmatic in our play.
This is why I argued that we should have pushed the boat out to get the Cowley brothers. I don’t doubt there’s probably a decent coach in Artell, but I can see us dropping a lot of points through not being pragmatic in our play.
Just a suggestion, but wouldn’t it be prudent to make a judgement when the manager gets his own players in rather than some knee jerk reaction to a defeat against a team that’s only lost once all season?
This is why I argued that we should have pushed the boat out to get the Cowley brothers.
How do you know we didn’t “push the boat out” to get the Cowley’s? How do you know they were even interested, or would have come whatever was offered? Unless you have some insider knowledge of the recruitment process, we simply don’t know who was interested, or offered contracts.
Just a suggestion, but wouldn’t it be prudent to make a judgement when the manager gets his own players in rather than some knee jerk reaction to a defeat against a team that’s only lost once all season?
My reaction isn’t a knee jerk one. It’s been consistent since before Artell came in. By the time the manager has got his players in, we could already be in the National League. That’s why my preference would have been to get someone in who is pragmatic and can get the points on the board with what we have.
My reaction isn’t a knee jerk one. It’s been consistent since before Artell came in. By the time the manager has got his players in, we could already be in the National League. That’s why my preference would have been to get someone in who is pragmatic and can get the points on the board with what we have.
We got rid of ‘pragmatic’. He got one lucky win in 11 games (Barrow).
My reaction isn’t a knee jerk one. It’s been consistent since before Artell came in. By the time the manager has got his players in, we could already be in the National League. That’s why my preference would have been to get someone in who is pragmatic and can get the points on the board with what we have.
The Cowley’s famously require their teams to get at least 23 crosses in to the box per game as stats show on average it will lead to a goal if that number is met. Other than Glennon, how many hours do you think we’d need to play for them to hit that number? I think Mullarkey could play for a week non-stop and not deliver 23 crosses into the box.
The Cowley’s famously require their teams to get at least 23 crosses in to the box per game as stats show on average it will lead to a goal if that number is met. Other than Glennon, how many hours do you think we’d need to play for them to hit that number? I think Mullarkey could play for a week non-stop and not deliver 23 crosses into the box.
We know that’s one of the approaches they used to get the best out of the team they had at the time. They’re also known for devising an approach and adapting their strategy according to the tools that they have.
We saw what happens when you try and get players who aren’t up to it to play a certain way under Holloway and it was a disaster. Time will tell whether our current team is as bad as that, but our league position shows it’s at least comparable. These players aren’t up to it.
My reaction isn’t a knee jerk one. It’s been consistent since before Artell came in. By the time the manager has got his players in, we could already be in the National League. That’s why my preference would have been to get someone in who is pragmatic and can get the points on the board with what we have.
So take a short term plan that could fail over a long term and pragmatic approach? Gotcha
So take a short term plan that could fail over a long term and pragmatic approach? Gotcha
Using that logic (which isn’t what I said at all btw) you’d prefer a long term approach which could fail in the short term and see us relegated a third time to the National League? Gotcha.
Kept off here yesterday. Lose two games and nobody is off limits for criticism for some. The panic is just ridiculous and the criticism at this stage is unjustified. It's two games, the manager has been here five minutes with someone else's players who shot their fragile confidence to bits. Settle down, stop being snowflakes and see the season out. We'll win around ten games and finish mid to lower table. Not the season we wished for, but that's what we'll get. After that, probably another season of building before threatening the top seven the season after, anything better will be a bonus, especially after Hurst has spunked the cup money already. The players have been and will be better than they've been for 120 minutes out of the last two games, I have faith in Artell to do that, and he'll probably need four windows to get us looking like a promotion side. It's going to take patience and your support to get there. Throwing every toy out of your pram after every single defeat isn't going to help the process. Time to stand up, support the players and manager through thick and thin, and be men for a while..
This is why I argued that we should have pushed the boat out to get the Cowley brothers. I don’t doubt there’s probably a decent coach in Artell, but I can see us dropping a lot of points through not being pragmatic in our play.
There is no way on earth the Messiah would’ve even considered Cleethorpes, and tarnish his legacy at the Shire’s Premier club.
He’s happily settled on the South Coast with his daughter playing for the Chelsea girls team, and was never on your radar.
Kept off here yesterday. Lose two games and nobody is off limits for criticism for some. The panic is just ridiculous and the criticism at this stage is unjustified. It's two games, the manager has been here five minutes with someone else's players who shot their fragile confidence to bits. Settle down, stop being snowflakes and see the season out. We'll win around ten games and finish mid to lower table. Not the season we wished for, but that's what we'll get. After that, probably another season of building before threatening the top seven the season after, anything better will be a bonus, especially after Hurst has spunked the cup money already. The players have been and will be better than they've been for 90 minutes out of the last two games, I have faith in Artell to do that, and he'll probably need four windows to get us looking like a promotion side. It's going to take patience and your support to get there. Throwing every toy out of your pram after every single defeat isn't going to help the process. Time to stand up, support the players and manager through thick and thin, and be men for a while..
The Fishy reflects the home crowd at BP no patience, little or no support if the team is behind and individual players subjected to personal abuse. When we played pragmatic football we wanted passing, attacking football and play that way, lose and no we need a pragmatic approach.
In reality it just reflects that most football fans couldn’t give a crapper how we play as long as we win.
The board have appointed the Manager with agreement on the type of football we plan to try and deliver firmly agreed and to be fair not many were complaining after the MK Dons and Crewe performances. Clearly the team have been unable to maintain these standards but despite not playing well we would have won had we taken the chances created late in the game. Even against Harrogate we had a couple of scrambles in their box first half which could have resulted in a goal, Rose headed over from six yards immediately after half time and Holohan did an awful pass in injury time when players were in a great position to get an equaliser. First half yesterday wasn’t our best performance but Artell was correct in stating we created four very good chances/opportunities with none taken.
Had chances been taken no doubt Artell would be the second coming but we didn’t so now the problem is the quality of his after match interview, same criticism as aimed at PH, Bignot , Holloway’s ramblings, all so predictable really.
The worst thing about this post, aside from the fact it’s absolute gibberish, is that 5 people agree with you enough to give you a tick.
Having been a supporter since the 70’s and charged along motorways to more than a seasons worth of away game I would have hoped at the least a modicum of decency be cast on comments that some agree with alongside some that do not. Don’t suggest gibberish without a focused spin of the positive. I have seen the mariners hit the heights and the lows and supported the game no matter what.. I accept being wrong, but I do not accept someone finding fault with my willingness to offer an Opinion.
I like Artell, I also liked Buckley and mcmenemy, but all had and have faults. I maybe early in Artells rein to comment the way I did, but that doesn’t mean I can’t... hurst could never have done wrong following promotion and the odd one still commented on the cracks, now, hurst is the devil incarnate...
I wish DA well, of course I do, I adore my club not necessarily the team but my love of my club is not in question. I want my club along with a strong team that play for my beloved club to thrive. Don’t kid yourself to think that players and more so managers/coaches have the same loyalty as me! They don’t it’s a job... my club, my beloved GTFC will thrive, I just don’t think it will be with Artell..
I must admit that I had a bit of a dislike for Artell before he was even mooted as our next manager. On the few occasions I had seen him when he was manager of Crewe, I thought he came across as a bit arrogant at times.
He's our manager now, and I will support him as I do every other manager, but he is giving me Holloway vibes so far.
One other slight concern is his lack of experience in management, and even then, there was some whiff of him falling out with people there before he left.
Maybe it's just the radical change he has implemented so quickly, and it being part exciting and part scary to see. I think I would feel more relaxed if we weren't down the bottom end of the table, because we have seen too often, successive managers get it wrong and not having the time or the leeway to get out of the sh1te quickly enough.
I'm not in panic mode or anything like that because there are plenty of games and a transfer window on the horizon, and we have seen some very good performances along with the bad ones, but I get why some people are a bit twitchy given our history in the last couple of decades especially.
So you are guaranteeing that this so called long term plan will succeed.
Not what I said, but like everything in life there’s risks involved, however regardless of what happens we’ll be 6 months further ahead in the plan. Rather than having to start again in the summer learning a system.
The Fishy reflects the home crowd at BP no patience, little or no support if the team is behind and individual players subjected to personal abuse. When we played pragmatic football we wanted passing, attacking football and play that way, lose and no we need a pragmatic approach.
In reality it just reflects that most football fans couldn’t give a crapper how we play as long as we win.
The board have appointed the Manager with agreement on the type of football we plan to try and deliver firmly agreed and to be fair not many were complaining after the MK Dons and Crewe performances. Clearly the team have been unable to maintain these standards but despite not playing well we would have won had we taken the chances created late in the game. Even against Harrogate we had a couple of scrambles in their box first half which could have resulted in a goal, Rose headed over from six yards immediately after half time and Holohan did an awful pass in injury time when players were in a great position to get an equaliser. First half yesterday wasn’t our best performance but Artell was correct in stating we created four very good chances/opportunities with none taken.
Had chances been taken no doubt Artell would be the second coming but we didn’t so now the problem is the quality of his after match interview, same criticism as aimed at PH, Bignot , Holloway’s ramblings, all so predictable really.
If chances had been taken we would have lost 11-4 . I am far from a regular moaner but there is no way surely anyone found that second half acceptable from an effort and application point of view - I agree with you in general , but that was far far from just being beaten by the better team . It's down to them to prove to us it was a one off 45 minutes like that.
If chances had been taken we would have lost 11-4 . I am far from a regular moaner but there is no way surely anyone found that second half acceptable from an effort and application point of view - I agree with you in general , but that was far far from just being beaten by the better team . It's down to them to prove to us it was a one off 45 minutes like that.
Let's face it Mappers, the team have already shown it wasn't a one off. Plenty of games this season where players have demonstrated a lack of motivation, effort, fight. There was a conversation mid game at Mansfield, about the body language of some of the players. Nothing against Efete and think in the past he was subject to unfair criticism, but he just looked like he couldn't be arsed and didn't want to be there. I don't get the impression of a "team", but instead individual players, some dis interested, some suffering from imposter syndrome and a few angry and plain drunk off. If you could transplant confidence, most would need one ASAP.
Something has been awry since the beginning of the season. But more recently two incidents, one involving Glennon's frustration with a section of the lower and Artells sarcasm during a Youtube pre or post match interview suggests ill feeling is spilling over to un professionalism. Jolley, Bignot and Slade (Mk2) all left shortly after un professional behaviour, brought around in part due to character (or lack of) and because of frustration. I'm shocked that its only taken a few short weeks for Artell to be sarcastic during a pretty benign interview. So i'm going to stick my head on the blocks here, but because of a strong gut feeling, I believe Artell won't be here by the end of the season. I genuinely hope this won't be the case and that I'm proven wrong. But like a few managers prior, after the dust has settled, this appointment just doesn't "feel" right.
I have thought the same i think Artell can see we have a terrible squad and no money from the owners in January unless we can ship players out which is an impossible task. I find his post match interviews have hint of David Brent about them something is not right.
Let's face it Mappers, the team have already shown it wasn't a one off. Plenty of games this season where players have demonstrated a lack of motivation, effort, fight. There was a conversation mid game at Mansfield, about the body language of some of the players. Nothing against Efete and think in the past he was subject to unfair criticism, but he just looked like he couldn't be arsed and didn't want to be there. I don't get the impression of a "team", but instead individual players, some dis interested, some suffering from imposter syndrome and a few angry and plain drunk off. If you could transplant confidence, most would need one ASAP.
Something has been awry since the beginning of the season. But more recently two incidents, one involving Glennon's frustration with a section of the lower and Artells sarcasm during a Youtube pre or post match interview suggests ill feeling is spilling over to un professionalism. Jolley, Bignot and Slade (Mk2) all left shortly after un professional behaviour, brought around in part due to character (or lack of) and because of frustration. I'm shocked that its only taken a few short weeks for Artell to be sarcastic during a pretty benign interview. So i'm going to stick my head on the blocks here, but because of a strong gut feeling, I believe Artell won't be here by the end of the season. I genuinely hope this won't be the case and that I'm proven wrong. But like a few managers prior, after the dust has settled, this appointment just doesn't "feel" right.
That's a huge thing to say. Why doesn't it feel right? The appointment was welcomed by most, he wants to play the right way and hasn't had a chance to bring in his own players yet. We took ages to make the appointment and must have been absolutely certain of him and we have played far better than under Hurst (this season) bar the last 2 games.
I can't believe some of the things I'm reading when the poor bloke has hardly got his feet under the table.
If your gut feeling is right it means we are in a right bloody mess.
Hope someone's bookmarking all these 'I KNEW ARTELL WAS SHITE AS SOON AS HE JOINED' posts to dig out again when he turns out to be actually quite a decent manager for us.
FFS.... The bloke hasn't even put his pens on his desk and you're into him!!.. I genuinely give up, Ferguson could manage town, lose a game and be the worst manager this side of the year 1928!..
Hope someone's bookmarking all these 'I KNEW ARTELL WAS SHITE AS SOON AS HE JOINED' posts to dig out again when he turns out to be actually quite a decent manager for us.
Probably ought to start a spreadsheet. Will make finding utter tosh spouted by usual suspects a bit easier.
Let's face it Mappers, the team have already shown it wasn't a one off. Plenty of games this season where players have demonstrated a lack of motivation, effort, fight. There was a conversation mid game at Mansfield, about the body language of some of the players. Nothing against Efete and think in the past he was subject to unfair criticism, but he just looked like he couldn't be arsed and didn't want to be there. I don't get the impression of a "team", but instead individual players, some dis interested, some suffering from imposter syndrome and a few angry and plain drunk off. If you could transplant confidence, most would need one ASAP.
Something has been awry since the beginning of the season. But more recently two incidents, one involving Glennon's frustration with a section of the lower and Artells sarcasm during a Youtube pre or post match interview suggests ill feeling is spilling over to un professionalism. Jolley, Bignot and Slade (Mk2) all left shortly after un professional behaviour, brought around in part due to character (or lack of) and because of frustration. I'm shocked that its only taken a few short weeks for Artell to be sarcastic during a pretty benign interview. So i'm going to stick my head on the blocks here, but because of a strong gut feeling, I believe Artell won't be here by the end of the season. I genuinely hope this won't be the case and that I'm proven wrong. But like a few managers prior, after the dust has settled, this appointment just doesn't "feel" right.
Hope someone's bookmarking all these 'I KNEW ARTELL WAS SHITE AS SOON AS HE JOINED' posts to dig out again when he turns out to be actually quite a decent manager for us.
I haven’t read anyone say they think Artell is Shite, or was when he joined. But I confess I haven’t read all posts on all threads. If you were referring to my post, I absolutely don’t think he is shite either and we would need several months to make any reasonable judgment. Yoda made a valid point that the realism of what he has inherited may knock him. Let’s face it for Hursts last few matches he looked bereft and beaten, not knowing what he could do to get a tune out of these players. Most new managers will join a club with issues, otherwise the departing manager would never had been sacked. But this bunch of players will require something /someone very special to get them playing well. Coupled with budget constraints and lengthy contracts, Artell must be wondering what he has taken on.
I think Artell is a decent manager i don’t think he appreciated how bad our squad is and how little money he has to change it.
Cant believe there is no money to bring a few in, where has it gone FFS, Owners have deeper pockets than Fenty by miles and even he never came out with this one out one in crap.
Appreciate the constructive criticism 😂 Seriously though, after reading a few of the more recent posts, don’t understand why some posters get seriously offended and/or aggressive when someone shares an opinion they may disagree with.
Cant believe there is no money to bring a few in, where has it gone FFS, Owners have deeper pockets than Fenty by miles and even he never came out with this one out one in crap.
This one has already been explained I think - after the summer, they realised that telling everyone and their dog that we've got tons of cash to spend means clubs and agents jack up fees massively. I understand the reason we're not doing that for Jan is to avoid the same thing happening.
Appreciate the constructive criticism 😂 Seriously though, after reading a few of the more recent posts, don’t understand why some posters get seriously offended and/or aggressive when someone shares an opinion they may disagree with.
I'm getting to the point where I think a certain section of our fanbase don't even deserve a football club to support. They've forgotten how to.. I'm ashamed to be a Town fan sometimes. We have some amazing fans that deserve more than we are, yet those that travel the length and breadth of the country are generally constructive in their criticism. Your previous post was ill-conceived, built upon supposition, clutching at straws and your meanness in spirit.
We've gone through twenty years of hell and the constant negativity was deserved then. We need to settle down and break that mould. Still think some are in Fenty hangover moaning mode ..
If you're not going to post anything nice about a player or the manager, just try stopping for a while, maybe a good while. See how things play out. You may even feel all the better for it..
Not just you Heppy, that goes for some of the other miserable c**nts on here too..
Petit said on the fans forum that we have to ship players out before we can bring in new signings. With our players on long contracts this will be hard to do, also JS keeps commenting about his kids inheritance so it’s obvious he isn’t going to be putting any money in.
I think Artell is a decent manager i don’t think he appreciated how bad our squad is and how little money he has to change it.
You don't know that Yoda. I'm pretty sure you can give A.P.'s remark about 1 in, 1 out was talking to the agents, rather than the audience. (given that they have admitted to making a mistake by advertising the fact to agents that P.H. would have the FA Cup money to spend)
They will certainly be determined not to follow Fenty's history in taking us down, n they have the resources to do it
I love the Fishy concept and the number of posts it gets, considering we aren’t a “big club”. I take my hat off to Rob S for running the forum
BUT there is too much cr*p spouted on here via glass half full fans. Give me the reasoned punditry on View from the Findus or even Facebook groups.
As an exile I value the views of match going fans but can’t abide the cr*p I read on here from fans that saw Morecambe h / MK Dons a / Crewe h and still slag off our new manager. If you saw none of those games then talk to someone who did.
I don’t post much so my views are probably worthless. Red cross if u like but get a perspective on Town. We flirt with relegation, we are mid table at best so do bear that in mind.
Over n out, happy new year to you all. We are Town UTFMM
I love the Fishy concept and the number of posts it gets, considering we aren’t a “big club”. I take my hat off to Rob S for running the forum
BUT there is too much cr*p spouted on here via glass half full fans. Give me the reasoned punditry on View from the Findus or even Facebook groups.
As an exile I value the views of match going fans but can’t abide the cr*p I read on here from fans that saw Morecambe h / MK Dons a / Crewe h and still slag off our new manager. If you saw none of those games then talk to someone who did.
I don’t post much so my views are probably worthless. Red cross if u like but get a perspective on Town. We flirt with relegation, we are mid table at best so do bear that in mind.
Over n out, happy new year to you all. We are Town UTFMM
Quite right.
We’ve gone from play off contenders after Crewe to being a basket case via a couple of dodgy results against in form teams.
Get a grip some of you and put things in perspective. DA is trying to get a tune out of a set of pretty average players.
I'm getting to the point where I think a certain section of our fanbase don't even deserve a football club to support. They've forgotten how to.. I'm ashamed to be a Town fan sometimes. We have some amazing fans that deserve more than we are, yet those that travel the length and breadth of the country are generally constructive in their criticism. Your previous post was ill-conceived, built upon supposition, clutching at straws and your meanness in spirit.
We've gone through twenty years of hell and the constant negativity was deserved then. We need to settle down and break that mould. Still think some are in Fenty hangover moaning mode ..
If you're not going to post anything nice about a player or the manager, just try stopping for a while, maybe a good while. See how things play out. You may even feel all the better for it..
Not just you Heppy, that goes for some of the other miserable c**nts on here too..
FFS get a frigging grip. This forum is no different to most, you get those who lick the bottom of the manager and those that blame him for all the ills in the world.
You get those that think Efete is a great defender and those who wouldn't have him in their Sunday league team
It's all about opinions, if you don't like that and want a lovey dovey forum set your own up.
In this post, you have failed to grasp the basic concept that the manager you wanted to keep has put together a squad that has us back in danger again. This is Hurst’s squad not Artell’s.
Following PHs dismissal we went on a 7 game unbeaten run in which many posters on this site commented on how refreshing it was to see the players playing 'without the shackles on' and showing what they can actually do. There was an excitement for the squad following the excellent performance at MK Dons and then the win against Crewe.
Now we've had two awful performances and all of a sudden the players are simply not good enough or L2 again and this is the mess PH left us. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. There are certainly improvements that can be made but this squad is capable of more, as they have proven at times since the start of November.
Much as a fan of PH that I am, the football was lacking in attacking intent and creativity and cost him his job and rightly so at the time. BD and SP made noticeable changes in mindset for going forward and when DA was appointed we followed that on. The last two games however have looked every bit a PH type of performance and that - apparently - rests with the manager. You can't blame the manager on one hand for poor performances, then blame the players for exactly the same level of performance just because it's a new guy.
A few weeks back DA stated that he'd been surprised by the players, that they were better than he realised and were picking things up that he wanted or words to that effect. You're welcome to tell me that he has to build confidence and he can't say the players aren't good enough for reasons of confidence because I'd agree with it. But, again, it's contradictory to the previous manager who was criticised for not being harsh on his players.
The squad is an upgrade on what we had from last season, all three strikers have scored more already this season than Taylor and Orsi did combined all season. Cartwright is now looking an upgrade on Crocombe despite a nervy start in the cups. McAtee was only on loan and was never coming back again and the only other player I would take from last seasons squad is George Lloyd. If last seasons squad is capable of an 11th place finish then this one is capable of more than 19th.
I left at 67 minutes against Harrogate because it was crap and at this time of year I had more pressing things to be getting on with. I spent Boxing day being grumpy after a second poor showing. But whilst this forum seems to be going into meltdown about why two performances have been bad, searching for blame and dismissing our players as being not good enough, I'm going to hold the manager to the same account as previous and both hope and trust that he gets it right.
DA will be given time and frustrating as these last two performances have been I don't think this will be the norm, nor do I think will define our entire season. I think too much is made of interviews and isolated poor performances (which I'm choosing to take the last two as). If our next few weeks follow the same standard then it's not unreasonable to question the manager and the players but even being the harshest of critics on Boxing Day I don't see a reason for panic right now.
Frankly I believe we will see tears at bedtime with Artell as manager... IMO he will be gone end of season. I agree with others.. he just doesn’t feel right
It would help if we took more of our chances to put the ball in the net.. We all know we are weak at defending as a team so taking our chances are more important , As a team we do create a good fair few chances .but our success rate at converting them is very poor .
Bottom line is that our results under DA have been fine till Saturday and, frankly, anyone who expected us to get something from Mansfield is rose tinted in the extreme.
Harrogate was a worry and hopefully a blip but I’m not going to go overboard when an in form team does a number on us. I don’t expect the manager to move away from his principles nor do I want him to. It would just be nice if people would stop overreacting.
Frankly I believe we will see tears at bedtime with Artell as manager... IMO he will be gone end of season. I agree with others.. he just doesn’t feel right
FFS, he has been here only 4 weeks, having to work with a squad of players he didn't select, and is trying to get them to play the kind of football we want to see. Some people on here just like to moan for moaning's sake, agreed everyone has a right to voice their opinions, but posts like this, and a few others that are similar, are just absolute garbage.
Bottom line is that our results under DA have been fine till Saturday and, frankly, anyone who expected us to get something from Mansfield is rose tinted in the extreme.
Harrogate was a worry and hopefully a blip but I’m not going to go overboard when an in form team does a number on us. I don’t expect the manager to move away from his principles nor do I want him to. It would just be nice if people would stop overreacting.
When you look at the table I see why people are reacting or over reacting , many are concerned if we go again we’ll never come back
FFS, he has been here only 4 weeks, having to work with a squad of players he didn't select, and is trying to get them to play the kind of football we want to see. Some people on here just like to moan for moaning's sake, agreed everyone has a right to voice their opinions, but posts like this, and a few others that are similar, are just absolute garbage.
Newell, Holloway and Bignot were met with universal approval and all turned out to be excrement. Then the know it alls came along and said they knew it'd go wrong and it was obvious, also claiming they said so from the start.
DA isn't as big a catch as 2 of those and all the press about Bignot was impressive. DA built a side that were comfortably relegated in his last season in management. His arrogance comes across a bit Bignot or Holloway and I wasn't a fan of those 2 either.
We all hope he turns us into the L2 Man City, but I smell a lot of risk. Especially trying to implement total football with players that have been awful so far. Draws against Newport, Sutton, Slough and Forest Green don't fill me with the same confidence that they seem to do for others.
Newell, Holloway and Bignot were met with universal approval and all turned out to be excrement. Then the know it alls came along and said they knew it'd go wrong and it was obvious, also claiming they said so from the start.
DA isn't as big a catch as 2 of those and all the press about Bignot was impressive. DA built a side that were comfortably relegated in his last season in management. His arrogance comes across a bit Bignot or Holloway and I wasn't a fan of those 2 either.
We all hope he turns us into the L2 Man City, but I smell a lot of risk. Especially trying to implement total football with players that have been awful so far. Draws against Newport, Sutton, Slough and Forest Green don't fill me with the same confidence that they seem to do for others.
How does it feel to live in such a world we're you seem completely suffocated by your fixed mind set?
I'd be absolutely amazed if you could nominate a manager who we could have realistically appointed that wouldn't have arrived with a degree of risk.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
You can tell that people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs with nothing else to do. The usual suspects are out in force having a dig, of course, as they always do after a couple of poor performances, but many other posters seem to be disappearing up their own fundament at the moment as well.
The sun is out at the moment in Clee. Go for a walk, get yourself some fresh air, think about something else and turn down the angst a few notches. Then let's hope for better in the next couple of games.
How does it feel to live in such a world we're you seem completely suffocated by your fixed mind set?
I'd be absolutely amazed if you could nominate a manager who we could have realistically appointed that wouldn't have arrived with a degree of risk.
There's no such thing as a manager with no risk. But one that's last season in football was to get easily relegated and insists on playing a brand of football that clearly isn't suited to our players is more than a degree of risk.
Call me what you want, but at least I'm not jumping in the insane asylum with the morons thinking we can make the playoffs after our 3rd win in 3 months.
Artell has only been here a few weeks. Unless he possesses a magic wand or a super power, it's obviously going to take time to convert a team that had mustered only three wins all season under the previous manager into a team consistently winning matches.
Yes, we have had two disappointing results this week, but not many teams come away from Mansfield with anything, and by all accounts we gave them quite a game in the first half.
I think it is the players rather than the manager that bear most responsibility for the current situation. As has been discussed in various threads, many of them just don't seem to manage the basics. Poor delivery, poor decision making, poor passing, lack of tracking back, ball watching, we could go on and on.
But we have seen that on occasion these players are capable of better performances. Confidence and mind set probably have something to do with it. I do think Artell has something to work with here. But it is not an overnight fix.I also think the process will be accelerated by bringing in a few upgrades in January.
There's no such thing as a manager with no risk. But one that's last season in football was to get easily relegated and insists on playing a brand of football that clearly isn't suited to our players is more than a degree of risk.
Call me what you want, but at least I'm not jumping in the insane asylum with the morons thinking we can make the playoffs after our 3rd win in 3 months.
I'm certainly not getting carried away thinking we can make the play-offs after one win. I'm also not writing off a manager after 5 weeks in charge of a squad that he inherited. You mention DA's last season in charge of Crewe when they got " easily relegated" but fail to realise the situation and players that he was forced to work with after getting them promoted in the first case.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
You can tell that people are sitting at home twiddling their thumbs with nothing else to do. The usual suspects are out in force having a dig, of course, as they always do after a couple of poor performances, but many other posters seem to be disappearing up their own fundament at the moment as well.
The sun is out at the moment in Clee. Go for a walk, get yourself some fresh air, think about something else and turn down the angst a few notches. Then let's hope for better in the next couple of games.
Wish I could, but I'm back in the office today.
I don’t think it’s the poor performances that people have a problem with. It’s being told to ignore the evidence of our own eyes.
We were terrible on Boxing Day. To suggest we were the better side during the first half is laughable.
Yes we wasted a few half chances but Mansfield were even more wasteful in front of goal than us and still won 2-0.
I’ll be honest. I didn’t get the excitement about DA getting to job. And it’s too early to have an inkling whether he’s gonna do a good job because he’s having to work with the dross and losers that make up a sizeable portion of our squad
His promotion at Crewe was on points per game when Crewe were (on paper) facing the hardest run in. The 9 matches they had left saw them play 6 games against the other 9 clubs in the top 10 and they had no games against the bottom 8 left to play. Obviously nothing is certain but it looks like they had played all the terrible sides twice and most of the better sides only once. But we’ll never know if his Crewe side would have risen to the challenge and won promotion if the season had been completed or their tough run on would have seen them drop out of the top 3.
And on the face of it his success at Crewe looks a bit like Hurst mk II. Won promotion against short term expectations. A comfortable enough season at a higher level without really threatening the top end of the table and fell apart spectacularly after that.
What I’m getting at is, you’re not going to see me getting excited about him and where he might take us until we’ve actually seen some evidence that he is a good manager. i.e. respect has to be earned and isn’t automatic.
Anyway, I’m not too bothered about performances at the moment. What i want to see if good recruitment in January and getting rid of the culture of losing around the squad. With hindsight signing 4 players who were relegated last season and another 4 or 5 who have been starved of regular first team football prior to joining Town and having them all as key first XI players probably represents poor recruitment.
We desperately need a quality centre back, a couple of upgrades in central midfield and a striker to add depth.
To get back to the initial point. It is possible to say after the match that we were crap/weren’t good enough without throwing the players under a bus. If he had just admitted that Mansfield collectively were better than us i doubt anyone would have complained?
I think it's probably best if people refrain from listening to interviews that involve Artell.
People are getting way too wound up by his comments. Just take them with a pinch of salt, they're largely meaningless. Same with interviews with Stockwood and co. You don't need to hang on their every word.
I think it's probably best if people refrain from listening to interviews that involve Artell.
People are getting way too wound up by his comments. Just take them with a pinch of salt, they're largely meaningless. Same with interviews with Stockwood and co. You don't need to hang on their every word.
It’s always the same. Town fans (and probably football fans more broadly) have a tendency to hang off the very word of the manager whenever he is new and different / doing well, and then want to deride everything he says, along with his delivery and demeanour, whenever times are tougher.
Buckley was a footballing genius in the good times, but curt and lacking in PR skills whenever the chips were down. Bignot was a breath of fresh air after Hurst mkI, then he quickly became a maniacal buffoon. Jolley was the archetypal intellectual manager when he came in and saved the day, then latterly just dull and uninspiring. Holloway’s bizarre, zany metaphorical detours were received as fun and engaging pre-Covid, but frustrating attempts at avoiding the question in the mess he helped create afterwards. Hurst’s dry, give little away interviews were popular whenever we were successful, but dreary, dull and uninspired when we were stinking the place out.
People seem to take as much significance from the words managers say before and after each game as they do from the performances and results themselves, when in reality it’s only the latter that matter (rhyme not intended). Personally, I find Artell’s speaking style to be a little awkward, but more importantly I’d been reasonably encouraged by performances, playing style and results up to and including the Newport game.
Clearly the last two matches have been less inspiring, but just as it was crazy to be referring to Artell as things like ”the extra special one” after a handful of decent results, it’s equally ridiculous to be writing the bloke off after a couple of poorer ones.
It’s very early days. People need to cool their jets a little bit. It’s pointless getting too high or too low at this point; we’ll know more in the fullness of time. The same would have been true of any managerial appointment.
There's no such thing as a manager with no risk. But one that's last season in football was to get easily relegated and insists on playing a brand of football that clearly isn't suited to our players is more than a degree of risk.
Call me what you want, but at least I'm not jumping in the insane asylum with the morons thinking we can make the playoffs after our 3rd win in 3 months.
Wasn't Hurst trying to get the team to play out? Maybe DA isn't trying to re-invent the wheel as much as what people may have you beleive.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
. Hurst’s dry, give little away interviews were popular whenever we were successful, but dreary, dull and uninspired when we were stinking the place out.
Sad to see Hurst leave but I remember pointing out that during the FA Cup run last season a lad who I know who had seen Ryan Bennet play thought he was ok but nothing to write home about .His pace made a massive difference to his game according to the fella. I know you took me to town a bit on this . Irony of this though is the lad in question was not a bad footballer and played semi pro for one so he had some understanding of the game and probably could rinse you in a 5 a side game or on a 11 a side a game.
On another note sometimes as armchair football fans or sports fans in general we don't necessarily understand what it takes to get to the top or make it at some level due to never having been there(see it amongst some football fans ). As for Hurst I give a lot of credit to him particularly with regards to his playing career and deserves a lot of credit for that. Look at the percentage of players who start out in academy's and I would say Hurst comparatively speaking with the playing side was a success which not not that many at all levels in the game achieve if you consider those that start out aged 11 or younger on the academy trail with dreams of making it professional or even semi pro.
Like with Bobby Moore and other famous players a successful career on the pitch dont always mean a successful managerial career.
For God's sake we've lost a couple of games. Did people expect to go through the rest of the season unbeaten under Artell despite not winning away all season, hardly keeping a clean sheet and playing the most boring football imaginable under Hurst?
If anybody is looking for somebody to blame look at Hurst, and indeed the owners for not intervening sooner when it became clear we were going backwards and we would never play the sort of football they seemingly prefer.
If Artell proves to be the messiah or a flop we have to give him sufficient time to get us playing possession based attacking football.
Just listened to tonight's post match. He is obviously pleased with they result without getting too carried away.
He did mention that Hunt, Arthur G and Pyke will not be available for the Walsall game, and it seems highly unlikely that Wilson will either. So it will be pretty much tonights squad.
He also said that we will be 'active' in the January window. We are looking to improve but it will be evolution not revolution.
He confirmed that he has spoken to Charlie Kirk, but not about coming to Town, but he plans to speak to him again after the holiday.
Just listened to tonight's post match. He is obviously pleased with they result without getting too carried away.
He did mention that Hunt, Arthur G and Pyke will not be available for the Walsall game, and it seems highly unlikely that Wilson will either. So it will be pretty much tonights squad.
He also said that we will be 'active' in the January window. We are looking to improve but it will be evolution not revolution.
He confirmed that he has spoken to Charlie Kirk, but not about coming to Town, but he plans to speak to him again after the holiday.
That’s very forward, will take some getting used. PH would have denied knowing who he was.
Just listened to tonight's post match. He is obviously pleased with they result without getting too carried away.
He did mention that Hunt, Arthur G and Pyke will not be available for the Walsall game, and it seems highly unlikely that Wilson will either. So it will be pretty much tonights squad.
He also said that we will be 'active' in the January window. We are looking to improve but it will be evolution not revolution.
He confirmed that he has spoken to Charlie Kirk, but not about coming to Town, but he plans to speak to him again after the holiday.
The equivalent to saying ‘yes I did smoke marijuana, but I didn’t inhale’
Shite we’ve appointed a manager who doesn’t even know what day it was when we played Mansfield. Actually I’ve had the same problem with what day it was this week - actually forgot we were playing when I got up yesterday.
Shite we’ve appointed a manager who doesn’t even know what day it was when we played Mansfield. Actually I’ve had the same problem with what day it was this week - actually forgot we were playing when I got up yesterday.
Perhaps he's trying to forget about it, I know i am
He's criticising players publicly (but stops short of naming names). I suspect we'll see a revolving door over the next few weeks. Hopefully with defensive additions
I think another relegation to non league could be terminal, the fan base has had enough of a quarter of a century of rubbish and season ticket sales would collapse.
I absolutely will not be renewing if we go down. Nor will I attend games anymore. I've had enough.
He's criticising players publicly (but stops short of naming names). I suspect we'll see a revolving door over the next few weeks. Hopefully with defensive additions
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