Blundell Park

Where next for our great home ?

Had some fantastic times over the years there , and my heart says we should stay and improve our beloved home .

Stood on the terraces in the 80's it was something special 'the buzz' I'm sure others have memories further back , some much further .

But since the all seater , and it falling further and further into disrepair we need a future ; I'm not sure it's where I want it to be .

The current custodians have 'not got a magic wand' but we need one otherwise it is going to mean we have no where to play - since they have taken over they have been tucked up into paying over 2 million quid probably for our former 'custodians' attempt to run a football club like a five star fish factory. They seem good guys , really good one's take somes political agenda away and they are just fans like the rest of us .

How do we 'make good ' the years of neglect to the stadium or move to another without the magic money tree , enabling development or an Extreme Leisure that actually build ?

Where next for Blundell Park , where next for us as a club ?

No wonder JF has vanished. He’s won big time hasn’t he

Don’t worry gents, when I win the euromillions tonight we’ll be moving to a lovely new, red brick 20k seater on the docks.

Quoted from ska face

Don’t worry gents, when I win the euromillions tonight we’ll be moving to a lovely new, red brick 20k seater on the docks.

Only 20k !

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

Only 20k !

It's 30k but the ones around his are not available on a match day

Quoted from Mappers

Where next for our great home ?

Had some fantastic times over the years there , and my heart says we should stay and improve our beloved home .

Stood on the terraces in the 80's it was something special 'the buzz' I'm sure others have memories further back , some much further .

But since the all seater , and it falling further and further into disrepair we need a future ; I'm not sure it's where I want it to be .

The current custodians have 'not got a magic wand' but we need one otherwise it is going to mean we have no where to play - since they have taken over they have been tucked up into paying over 2 million quid probably for our former 'custodians' attempt to run a football club like a five star fish factory. They seem good guys , really good one's take somes political agenda away and they are just fans like the rest of us .

How do we 'make good ' the years of neglect to the stadium or move to another without the magic money tree , enabling development or an Extreme Leisure that actually build ?

Where next for Blundell Park , where next for us as a club ?

I wouldn't be as gloomy as that. Yes we need to catch up with the maintenance and sprucing up but a full and vocal BP still sets the pulses racing.

Obviously something will need doing in the future but I am pinning my hopes on a new full length Main Stand and other improvements.  

Unless we really do move up the leagues and get huge investment a new stadium is beyond reach isn't it?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I wouldn't be as gloomy as that. Yes we need to catch up with the maintenance and sprucing up but a full and vocal BP still sets the pulses racing.

Obviously something will need doing in the future but I am pinning my hopes on a new full length Main Stand and other improvements.  

Unless we really do move up the leagues and get huge investment a new stadium is beyond reach isn't it?

I agree to an extent

But how do the lads fund that ?

2 million down already

6 million on a new training ground

How much would a refurbished /extened Main cost
Another 2-4million probably ?

Bonkers

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

Only 20k !

We don’t want any rabble in the shiny new ground.

I'm currently more worried about on the pitch, rather than off it. I don't want to be watching non league footy yet again, even if it is in a much improved stadium.

I think at some point they will bring in investors, as they intend to do to finance the training ground. I reckon they know what they are doing and have a plan, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over ground maintenance. We can't afford a new stadium, so they will have to do what they have to do to keep the old place operational.

Quoted from ginnywings

I'm currently more worried about on the pitch, rather than off it. I don't want to be watching non league footy yet again, even if it is in a much improved stadium.

I think at some point they will bring in investors, as they intend to do to finance the training ground. I reckon they know what they are doing and have a plan, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over ground maintenance. We can't afford a new stadium, so they will have to do what they have to do to keep the old place operational.

Bur the infrastructure is non league and however many fans or stickkng plasters we put on it that's the harsh reality really isn't it?

Quoted from Mappers

Bur the infrastructure is non league and however many fans or stickkng plasters we put on it that's the harsh reality really isn't it?

The 8,500 capacity York Community Stadium cost £44m.

The 4,000 capacity Boston Community Stadium cost £12m. That got them 3 stands, 2 of which are terraces with about 5 rows, so they only got one decent stand for the £12m. How much the fourth stand with a sports ball behind it will cost in the current climate is anyone's guess. The Boston chairman owns Chestnut Homes, who have the enabling development on the other side of the roundabout.

It's just not going to happen. I just can't see how it happens in a manner that doesn't pose a huge risk of crippling us financially.

Quoted from ginnywings

I'm currently more worried about on the pitch, rather than off it. I don't want to be watching non league footy yet again, even if it is in a much improved stadium.

I think at some point they will bring in investors, as they intend to do to finance the training ground. I reckon they know what they are doing and have a plan, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over ground maintenance. We can't afford a new stadium, so they will have to do what they have to do to keep the old place operational.

But the infrastructure is non league and however many fans or stickkng plasters we put on it that's the harsh reality really isn't it?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I wouldn't be as gloomy as that. Yes we need to catch up with the maintenance and sprucing up but a full and vocal BP still sets the pulses racing.

Obviously something will need doing in the future but I am pinning my hopes on a new full length Main Stand and other improvements.  

Unless we really do move up the leagues and get huge investment a new stadium is beyond reach isn't it?

How do we 'catch up ' though
The footprint for the stadium is limited both in capacity and other non football related income .

Quoted from jamesgtfc

The 8,500 capacity York Community Stadium cost £44m.

The 4,000 capacity Boston Community Stadium cost £12m. That got them 3 stands, 2 of which are terraces with about 5 rows, so they only got one decent stand for the £12m. How much the fourth stand with a sports ball behind it will cost in the current climate is anyone's guess. The Boston chairman owns Chestnut Homes, who have the enabling development on the other side of the roundabout.

It's just not going to happen. I just can't see how it happens in a manner that doesn't pose a huge risk of crippling us financially.

We need 13k stadium minimum , agree or disagree on the tick and × thing

When the main stand accidently  catches fire in the summer before any repair work is carried out.

We can use the insurance money to construct a new stand covering the length of the pitch.






NB.  No humans or animals were hurt in the fire.

Quoted from Mappers

But the infrastructure is non league and however many fans or stickkng plasters we put on it that's the harsh reality really isn't it?

The infrastructure has been that way since I started going in the early 70's, so I'm not going to start worrying about it now.

In that time, we have been incredibly bad and incredibly good on the pitch, and I never really worried about the surroundings.

Quoted from Mappers

We need 13k stadium minimum , agree or disagree on the tick and × thing

Quick maths using the York and Boston values suggest that a 13k stadium would cost us between £39-67m. How is that being paid for in a manner that doesn't put the clubs future at risk or compromising the playing budget?

It's not is the simple answer.

Whilst I've no doubt our owners are wealthy they are not in the realms of others who can afford to lay out £50m.

We are unfashionable so unlikely to attract investors to supplement it.

We don't even have the money for a training ground so there's no hope of a new ground.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

Quick maths using the York and Boston values suggest that a 13k stadium would cost us between £39-67m. How is that being paid for in a manner that doesn't put the clubs future at risk or compromising the playing budget?

York’s ground is owned, and was paid for, by the city of York council. It’s shared by York City and the York City Knights rugby team.

The circa £40m figure isn’t just for the stadium (which is neat but basic), it includes the adjoining retail and leisure complex which includes a large cinema, bowling alley, indoor golf, gym, swimming pool, climbing centre, cafes etc. That said, it’s another example of a ground which had most of its costs locked in before the hike in construction costs sparked by Covid.

Boston I’m less sure about, but again it was built mostly pre-Covid.

Quoted from Poojah

York’s ground is owned, and was paid for, by the city of York council. It’s shared by York City and the York City Knights rugby team.

The circa £40m figure isn’t just for the stadium (which is neat but basic), it includes the adjoining retail and leisure complex which includes a large cinema, bowling alley, indoor golf, gym, swimming pool, climbing centre, cafes etc. That said, it’s another example of a ground which had most of its costs locked in before the hike in construction costs sparked by Covid.

Boston I’m less sure about, but again it was built mostly pre-Covid.

The Boston stadium is part of a wider development called The Quadrant with a new housing estate built by Chestnut Homes, that the Boston Chairman owns.

That stadium itself is actually a CIC with lots of protection from future wrong'uns and a peppercorn rent agreement in place for years.

If we could be gifted the land by the council there must be grants available i think 20 million would build you a stadium of say 16-18k.
Taken over 25-30 years not that expensive we are spending more on BP every year.

Quoted from Yoda

If we could be gifted the land by the council there must be grants available i think 20 million would build you a stadium of say 16-18k.
Taken over 25-30 years not that expensive we are spending more on BP every year.

Land’s not the biggest issue. What you describe is more or less what happened with Rotherham. The council gave them some brownfield land on the edge of the town centre (not far from Millmoor), and they built a cracking 12,000 capacity ground for £20m. 16-18k would have cost way more, btw.

But it’s been 11 years since the New York Stadium opened, and 12 years since it broke ground. So much has happened economically since then, to the point that the same ground built by the docks or on Freeman Street is costing you more like £40m today. I’ve shown my workings out previously and, unrelated, it’s the same figure that Stockwood quoted at the recent forum.

£40m is a fúckload of money for a League Two club to try and find by whatever means. Regrettably, I think we’ve missed the boat.

Quoted from Poojah

Land’s not the biggest issue. What you describe is more or less what happened with Rotherham. The council gave them some brownfield land on the edge of the town centre (not far from Millmoor), and they built a cracking 12,000 capacity ground for £20m. 16-18k would have cost way more, btw.

But it’s been 11 years since the New York Stadium opened, and 12 years since it broke ground. So much has happened economically since then, to the point that the same ground built by the docks or on Freeman Street is costing you more like £40m today. I’ve shown my workings out previously and, unrelated, it’s the same figure that Stockwood quoted at the recent forum.

£40m is a fúckload of money for a League Two club to try and find by whatever means. Regrettably, I think we’ve missed the boat.

Yep.

The price of labour and materials has gone up by an eye watering amount in the last 3 years.

Every time I go to a timber or builders merchant, I am staggered by the cost of materials. They just keep on rising, and that's if you can source them to begin with. Plenty of projects are grinding to a halt because of skills and materials shortages, with long lead times, and tradesmen simply downing tools and fecking off because someone more desperate has offered them more money.

Quoted from Poojah

York’s ground is owned, and was paid for, by the city of York council. It’s shared by York City and the York City Knights rugby team.

The circa £40m figure isn’t just for the stadium (which is neat but basic), it includes the adjoining retail and leisure complex which includes a large cinema, bowling alley, indoor golf, gym, swimming pool, climbing centre, cafes etc. That said, it’s another example of a ground which had most of its costs locked in before the hike in construction costs sparked by Covid.

Boston I’m less sure about, but again it was built mostly pre-Covid.

But we are bigger than York City so surely need something fitting of that ?

Quoted from Mappers

But we are bigger than York City so surely need something fitting of that ?

But York is bigger and more prosperous than Grimsby.

Nobody will want to invest in one of the poorest towns in the UK, whilst York is far more attractive to investors. The size of the football club is irrelevant in this case, and the York ground is part of a bigger development as mentioned in a previous post.

Construction rates dropping at the moment and settling down from the crazy prices of covid.
A four sided stadium no tiers that costs a lot more a bit like notts county would no where near 40 nearer 30.
Boston’s is a cracking new ground it doesn’t have to be all seater we could have two ends standing.

Quoted from Yoda

Construction rates dropping at the moment and settling down from the crazy prices of covid.
A four sided stadium no tiers that costs a lot more a bit like notts county would no where near 40 nearer 30.
Boston’s is a cracking new ground it doesn’t have to be all seater we could have two ends standing.

We can't have standing as we were in the second tier in 1994.

Quoted from ginnywings

But York is bigger and more prosperous than Grimsby.

Nobody will want to invest in one of the poorest towns in the UK, whilst York is far more attractive to investors. The size of the football club is irrelevant in this case, and the York ground is part of a bigger development as mentioned in a previous post.

That's what breaks my heart though

That thinking , I moved away many moons ago but Town are still my /our club and if a club with a street from Harry Potter and a designer outlet trumps ours I am lost for words

Quoted from Mappers

But we are bigger than York City so surely need something fitting of that ?

Whilst GTFC may be bigger than YCFC, York as a city is much more attractive than NELC. Our area doesn't have a successful rugby team to share the rent with like they do either, making it an even less attractive proposition to a potential landlord.

There's nothing wrong with ambition and a bit of imagination.

Unfortunately, the time comes when reality bites. We can't have everything we want. Not saying we should just down tools, but we need to be realistic about what is achievable given the world we now live in.

The possibility of a new stadium will always remain, but right now the money needs to be spent on BP.

We need to make it better than what it is, while not compromising on the funds needed to invest in the first team squad and youth academy — because if both the first team squad and youth academy succeed, then they will raise the capital needed to invest in the club's infrastructure (and maybe help raise the money to fill in the corners and make BP feel a bit more like it used to).

I support the views of RichMariner.  If we can be successful on the pitch then revenues will increase.  As well as optimism and confidence.

This will increase the need to spend on BP (maintenance and higher capacity).  We have the Main Stand and 2 corners to look at in some way.  

We don’t have a realistic option of a new stadium.  Any costs estimate would surely increase considerably over time.

New stadiums, for all their fur coat and frilly knickers, are all well and good but having the money to be able to build it is a totally different kettle of fish.

You have the land to pay for (unless it’s council land)  and go through the rigmarole of having to plan capacity, design, parking etc.

Then if it is built, you’ve maybe got to think that your pre match meal and pint, could be served in Frankie and bennys Nando’s tgi Fridays etc.

The ticketing price would then have to be rolled out so that the club/investors are able to recoup some of their financial backing.

Personally, am firmly on the fence of the new v’s old ground scenario. I love blundell park, and the memories it has contained in it goes back many generations. But, the main stand and osmond (maybe even the ponny too)  have had their day and now need to be redeveloped to bring the facilies up to an acceptable standard.

But, with regards to a new ground, I think we all know that it is very very unlikely to happen within any immediate period of time and blundell park will remain our home for the foreseeable future.

Quoted from Poojah

Land’s not the biggest issue. What you describe is more or less what happened with Rotherham. The council gave them some brownfield land on the edge of the town centre (not far from Millmoor), and they built a cracking 12,000 capacity ground for £20m. 16-18k would have cost way more, btw.

But it’s been 11 years since the New York Stadium opened, and 12 years since it broke ground. So much has happened economically since then, to the point that the same ground built by the docks or on Freeman Street is costing you more like £40m today. I’ve shown my workings out previously and, unrelated, it’s the same figure that Stockwood quoted at the recent forum.

£40m is a fúckload of money for a League Two club to try and find by whatever means. Regrettably, I think we’ve missed the boat.

Agree and can’t fathom why did the new owners turn their back on Freeman street. There seemed to be so much going for that opportunity at that time. Free land, political support and potential Government money was a first.

Could well be a missed opportunity indeed. The one that got away.

And where do you get 6 million for a training ground. Seems hugely inflated figures are being plucked out of the air to put matters promoted by professional investors on the back burner.

The talk of York is interesting.

My in laws are big York City fans, at least some of them are and the others are Leeds United fans, some are Leeds rugby fans and some York rugby fans. That is the problem for York City - there are many better and varied alternatives.

That is not the case for us. North East Lincolnshire has a population fast approaching 200k, York is about 220k or something like that. We are in a very strong position if we can find success on the field.

People might think York is a better prospect as a place but like everywhere else it has its own problems. We also have our problems but the area as a whole is well placed to take advantage of the green revolution and with owners who have a vision to put GTFC at the forefront of any renaissance the future could be good, marvellous or outstanding.

Interest rates are very high at present as well as the BoE tries to drive us into recession. Financing a new stadium in this climate would be almost impossible. Bear in mind that interest rates were in effect negative (when low inflation was taken into account) for many years following the global financial crisis back in 2008.

That probably helped a few of the smaller clubs build their new stadia. Councils across the country are beginning to go bankrupt as their grants have been slashed year on year so can't expect any help from that direction.

Redevelopment of BP the only real option so we'll just have to keep putting the sticking plasters on until conditions (hopefully) improve at some point in the future.

Quoted from Mappers

I agree to an extent

But how do the lads fund that ?

2 million down already

6 million on a new training ground

How much would a refurbished /extened Main cost
Another 2-4million probably ?

Bonkers

6 million on a training ground when we have a permanent training ground when the tide is out.  Harden them up !

Just to rub salt into the wound, Wrexham are receiving £25 million from the Welsh Government towards their new stand. Crystal Palace have also publicly stated they are seeking £45 million towards the redevelopment of their potential new stand. There are possible grants available that I’m sure Jason, Debbie and in particular Andrew, are well aware of. There’s the Premier League stadium fund, previously known as the Football Stadia Improvement Fund, which allows clubs at our level to apply for up to £750,000 worth of grants towards stadium redevelopments. At a guess, publicly funding a new main stand is our only hope of any changes to BP any time soon.

Quoted from Yoda

If we could be gifted the land by the council there must be grants available i think 20 million would build you a stadium of say 16-18k.
Taken over 25-30 years not that expensive we are spending more on BP every year.

What you think and what is reality are two different things.  No way in hell can you build a 16-18k stadium for 20 million.

Quoted from Yoda

Construction rates dropping at the moment and settling down from the crazy prices of covid.
A four sided stadium no tiers that costs a lot more a bit like notts county would no where near 40 nearer 30.
Boston’s is a cracking new ground it doesn’t have to be all seater we could have two ends standing.

We can't have standing because it would be against the law, clubs in the top two tiers when the law was made have to have all seating stadiums, regardless of what level they play at. Bonkers but the law. Terracing isn't an option for us until the law is changed.

Quoted from toontown

We can't have standing because it would be against the law, clubs in the top two tiers when the law was made have to have all seating stadiums, regardless of what level they play at. Bonkers but the law. Terracing isn't an option for us until the law is changed.

The law has changed, slightly. You can now apply to have ‘safe standing’, which was all the rage 5 years ago, but most fans who use it don’t actually like it, and it actually reduces overall attendance.

Should be a decent crowd in on Saturday , Stockport sold over  1k which is good going , Colchester on Tuesday and then Doncaster the next Saturday .....

Big big week

Quoted from Mappers

Should be a decent crowd in on Saturday , Stockport sold over  1k which is good going , Colchester on Tuesday and then Doncaster the next Saturday .....

Big big week

I would be amazed if they don't sell out, in fact that would be pretty poor considering where they are in the League.

There was talk of building a relief road from the Great Coates roundabout to Bradley. That would open up a lot of potential land for a new stadium. The only problem is lack of foresight in the council.
Unfortunately if this ever happens it will be after I am well gone from this planet.

Quoted from mimma

There was talk of building a relief road from the Great Coates roundabout to Bradley. That would open up a lot of potential land for a new stadium. The only problem is lack of foresight in the council.
Unfortunately if this ever happens it will be after I am well gone from this planet.

The relief road would go from the roundabout near Great Coates to the roundabout near Morrisons on the Laceby By-pass.

I think the locals were up in arms about it and don't want it not the council.

The locals would be up in arms if we tried to build a stadium anywhere in NE Lincs.

Quoted from Mappers

Should be a decent crowd in on Saturday , Stockport sold over  1k which is good going , Colchester on Tuesday and then Doncaster the next Saturday .....

Big big week

Our sales are slightly slower than for Notts, which had about 200 left unsold. Should still be over 7k.

Although Stockport are above us in the away averages ( so they should be as they been p!sing the league almost from the start) some of their followings have been a bit low. 1,625 to Donny recently. Would have expected over 2k for that - similar distance as us to Bradford

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

The talk of York is interesting.

My in laws are big York City fans, at least some of them are and the others are Leeds United fans, some are Leeds rugby fans and some York rugby fans. That is the problem for York City - there are many better and varied alternatives.

That is not the case for us. North East Lincolnshire has a population fast approaching 200k, York is about 220k or something like that. We are in a very strong position if we can find success on the field.

People might think York is a better prospect as a place but like everywhere else it has its own problems. We also have our problems but the area as a whole is well placed to take advantage of the green revolution and with owners who have a vision to put GTFC at the forefront of any renaissance the future could be good, marvellous or outstanding.

I'm not sure how accurate this is, but it states just for Grimsby - Total Population 1911 to 1961: Population grew from 74,659 in 1911 to 96,712 in 1961 >> https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/unit/10000567

According to this 85,911 living in Grimsby of which 78,843 are UK citizens in 2021 >> https://citypopulation.de/en/uk/yorkshireandthehumber/north_east_lincolnshire/E63001128__grimsby/

North East Lincolnshire was 161,300 in 1981 and had fallen to 159,600 by 2019 >> https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/everything-2011-census-told-grimsby-5087215

For North East Lincolnshire, 2001 Census = 157,979 and for 2021 Census = 156,966 of which 146,658 are UK citizens >> https://citypopulation.de/en/uk/yorkshireandthehumber/admin/E06000012__north_east_lincolnshire/

The population of North East Lincolnshire fell by 1.7%, from around 159,600 in 2011 to around 157,000 in 2021 >> https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/censusareachanges/E06000012/

Quoted from NorthseaMariner

The locals would be up in arms if we tried to build a stadium anywhere in NE Lincs.

They have a total lack of vision for the future.

Quoted from ska face

Don’t worry gents, when I win the euromillions tonight we’ll be moving to a lovely new, red brick 20k seater on the docks.

Your not the only one .....If i win the lottery
Too, would not waste my money down here.
UTM

Quoted from DB

They have a total lack of vision for the future.

Not so sure on this one. I have been a fan for nigh on 65 years. Yes it would be a dream for me to be able to walk into a fabulous Mariners stadium from my home.
However I can fully empathise with those in the neighbourhood who maybe wouldn't share my enthusiasm for what could be an influx of anti-social yobs every couple of weeks.
Then again I may be considered to be  a miserable old fart - Rock on.

[quote=3674]

It's 30k but the ones around his are not available on a match day[/quote
NOT TO BIG ..a ground  not a stadium..as away fans could taunt with the old favorite  " Your Grounds to big for you !" Colchester and Oxford  Utd, Gillingham spring to mind.
UTM.

Call me simplistic but whilst cost might be an issue for a new main stand, I really don't think space should be. If a stand were to be built full length, even with leg room and at the same height/depth I'd guess we could have a stand that holds 3,500 and if you look at the Pontoon, you can see at that end the stand doesn't quite extend full width so maybe a new Main Stand could be moved a bit further forward too to provide more space.

The ground is right up against the houses, don't think for a minute they would want stands that are higher and tower over their property. The council would never allow it

Quoted from mimma

The ground is right up against the houses, don't think for a minute they would want stands that are higher and tower over their property. The council would never allow it

Buy why would it have to? In fact given the shape of the current Main Stand roof sloping up, it may actually not be as high.

This has been done to death before, because the ground is built up to houses, the locals would block it, and it would be impossible to get planning permission, no council would allow it. Buying up the houses, as has been sugested, would cost more than building a new stadium, and that's if all the residents were willing to sell.

The catchment area for us is over 200,000, including parts of N. Lincolnshire and Lincolnshire, with no real rivals for support other than say Lincoln, maybe Hull if they get back into the prem.That's about the same as Ipswich for example.There's no reason why we couldn't do well with the right investment and foresight, but that is what is so lacking.We are one of the few clubs that have taken over 30,000 to Wembley in the lower leagues. The potential is there, it just needs realising.

Quoted from mimma

This has been done to death before, because the ground is built up to houses, the locals would block it, and it would be impossible to get planning permission, no council would allow it. Buying up the houses, as has been sugested, would cost more than building a new stadium, and that's if all the residents were willing to sell.

The catchment area for us is over 200,000, including parts of N. Lincolnshire and Lincolnshire, with no real rivals for support other than say Lincoln, maybe Hull if they get back into the prem.That's about the same as Ipswich for example.There's no reason why we couldn't do well with the right investment and foresight, but that is what is so lacking.We are one of the few clubs that have taken over 30,000 to Wembley in the lower leagues. The potential is there, it just needs realising.

I agree with the 200k figure because a lot of North Lincolnshire and East Lindsey is prime Mariners territory so the potential is obviously there.

I think the point about a new Main stand is that the outlook would be much improved for the residents, instead of the hotchpotch of stuff there now. A good architect will work wonders.

Let's hope we get a successful period and we really have to increase capacity and make big improvements to BP.

Quoted from mimma

This has been done to death before, because the ground is built up to houses, the locals would block it, and it would be impossible to get planning permission, no council would allow it. Buying up the houses, as has been sugested, would cost more than building a new stadium, and that's if all the residents were willing to sell.

The catchment area for us is over 200,000, including parts of N. Lincolnshire and Lincolnshire, with no real rivals for support other than say Lincoln, maybe Hull if they get back into the prem.That's about the same as Ipswich for example.There's no reason why we couldn't do well with the right investment and foresight, but that is what is so lacking.We are one of the few clubs that have taken over 30,000 to Wembley in the lower leagues. The potential is there, it just needs realising.

There's absolutely no chance that buying the houses behind the Main Stand would cost even close to what a new stadium would cost.

We would have to have significant playing success for a sustained period before we could hope to attract the kind of gates that would make any development worthwhile.

Even under Buckley the crowds weren't massive, we had a real purple patch in the late 70s and early 80s. when we'd often break 10K+ but if I recall right that was often supplemented by Sheff U/W, Barnsley, Rotherham and clubs like Leeds and Wolves who where at that level too.

"Build it and they will come" has far too much risk attached.

You are right, it was supplemented by large clubs of today. However away supporters didn’t trave in such large numbers. You have to remember everyone had to go by single carriageway roads, no M180 etc. and had to get across Keadby bridge. So Travel from Leeds, Sheffield and so on was a long old haul..

Quoted from HertsGTFC

We would have to have significant playing success for a sustained period before we could hope to attract the kind of gates that would make any development worthwhile.

Even under Buckley the crowds weren't massive, we had a real purple patch in the late 70s and early 80s. when we'd often break 10K+ but if I recall right that was often supplemented by Sheff U/W, Barnsley, Rotherham and clubs like Leeds and Wolves who where at that level too.

"Build it and they will come" has far too much risk attached.

The problem is comparing decades is like comparing apples and oranges - 80's and 90's crowds were much lower throughout ,teams that get higher crowds now - Hull, Rotherham , Stockport , Bradford and Wrexham off the top of my head were getting lower than us 3 or 4k most weeks and now attract regular 5 figure crowds .

Now attendance since covid at least has had a major upturn , we are getting 6k+ regular being bottom end league 2 .

We can't offer more than 1200 to away fans which would be more of a problem a league up if we manage to get there - I don't know if there are thousands out there who want to go , but even now we need at least 1k more home seats and to be able to offer the full away end to the bigger teams .

But they obviously don't see it as viable at this time , even though early on in their second season Pettit said we were 'looking at something more permanent' in terms of capacity increase ; I'm not sure what happened with that ,maybe the nasty suprises with the Main & findus/  cost  put a stop to the idea?

Quoted from mariner91

There's absolutely no chance that buying the houses behind the Main Stand would cost even close to what a new stadium would cost.

About £2.5m (21 houses @ £120k)

Quoted from NorthseaMariner

You are right, it was supplemented by large clubs of today. However away supporters didn’t trave in such large numbers. You have to remember everyone had to go by single carriageway roads, no M180 etc. and had to get across Keadby bridge. So Travel from Leeds, Sheffield and so on was a long old haul..

Certainly the period from 1979/80 season to 1986/87 season was a " purple patch" in average attendances at BP and has not been reached since. This was a period when the official capacity at BP exceeded 20,000. 1979/80 we were in the old Div 3 and got promoted with an average BP attendance of10,618. The following season in Div 2 we averaged 10,961 but then , for whatever reasons, over the next 6 seasons the average attendance dropped each year until our relegation in 1986/87 when we averaged 5050.  The averages were 1981/82 - 8406, 1982/83  -7745, 1983/84 - 7643 ( and we finished 5 th in Div 2 ), 1984/85 - 6640 ( finished 10th Div 2) and 1985/86 - 5157 ( finished 15th Div 2 ). There certainly seemed to be an apathy or disinterest in watching town at BP despite the fact that we were in the equivalent of the Championship then. The 1983/84 season is particularly interesting considering our final league position. Even  London clubs like Crystal Palace, Fulham and Charlton attracted attendances below 6100 with the lowest attendances 4825 against Oldham and 4826 against Blackburn Rovers.

     As it was once said, " Build it and they will come"     LoL !

Quoted from Ruston AT

     As it was once said, " Build it and they will come"     LoL !

Your market research is field of dreams? I mean, a man who made a baseball pitch in his garden for ghosts? That's your role model?!

Quoted from rancido

Certainly the period from 1979/80 season to 1986/87 season was a " purple patch" in average attendances at BP and has not been reached since. This was a period when the official capacity at BP exceeded 20,000. 1979/80 we were in the old Div 3 and got promoted with an average BP attendance of10,618. The following season in Div 2 we averaged 10,961 but then , for whatever reasons, over the next 6 seasons the average attendance dropped each year until our relegation in 1986/87 when we averaged 5050.  The averages were 1981/82 - 8406, 1982/83  -7745, 1983/84 - 7643 ( and we finished 5 th in Div 2 ), 1984/85 - 6640 ( finished 10th Div 2) and 1985/86 - 5157 ( finished 15th Div 2 ). There certainly seemed to be an apathy or disinterest in watching town at BP despite the fact that we were in the equivalent of the Championship then. The 1983/84 season is particularly interesting considering our final league position. Even  London clubs like Crystal Palace, Fulham and Charlton attracted attendances below 6100 with the lowest attendances 4825 against Oldham and 4826 against Blackburn Rovers.

Heysel1985 and the subsequent lengthy European ban had a substantial effect on attendances across the English game . Football supporters were regarded as caged pyrahas in many parts of society. Then there was Hillsborough and all seater stadiums . It took the birth of the Premier league and more widespread televised live football to rehabilitate the game . Our attendances mirrored that trend and would have been much lower had we not been in the top half of the championship equivalent at the tiime.

Whatever they say on record maybe different to what Stockwood & Pettit think .

Simple maths gives you the conclusion that we need more capacity just based on the fact we are using the osmond corner and filling it for half the games at least so we are typically 500 + over our natural home capacity for half the big games without being able to offer 600 more away tickets . Viability must be the issue you would suspect.

I still think there is room for hundreds of seats as it stands to be added probably not 1000's but the main has a bit at the back , and the pontoon has the room for 80-100 more at the back . Reconfiguring the seats might add aswell . It would be interesting to know if they have looked into any of this or not .

The main needs a new roof sometime soon at least you would suspect .

Quoted from mimma

This has been done to death before, because the ground is built up to houses, the locals would block it, and it would be impossible to get planning permission, no council would allow it. Buying up the houses, as has been sugested, would cost more than building a new stadium, and that's if all the residents were willing to sell.

The catchment area for us is over 200,000, including parts of N. Lincolnshire and Lincolnshire, with no real rivals for support other than say Lincoln, maybe Hull if they get back into the prem.That's about the same as Ipswich for example.There's no reason why we couldn't do well with the right investment and foresight, but that is what is so lacking.We are one of the few clubs that have taken over 30,000 to Wembley in the lower leagues. The potential is there, it just needs realising.

Has anyone actually asked the opinion of the people who live in the houses on Harrington St instead of just guessing that they’d block ang proposed new main stand ?

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Has anyone actually asked the opinion of the people who live in the houses on Harrington St instead of just guessing that they’d block ang proposed new main stand ?

The law of averages would probably indicate that few wouldn't be too happy with it.

We hear a lot about NIMBYs, but this would really be a pretty substantial development by their back yard!

Quoted from arryarryarry

The relief road would go from the roundabout near Great Coates to the roundabout near Morrisons on the Laceby By-pass.

I think the locals were up in arms about it and don't want it not the council.

A lot of people on the Wybers where up in arms about it and voted in a councillor who was against it. Seems madness to me. I live nearby and anything that eases the traffic on great Coates road is a no brainer to me. Only at the weekend someone was killed on that road and its a bottleneck for people leaving the town, especially so when the A180 is closed

Quoted from louth_in_the_south

Has anyone actually asked the opinion of the people who live in the houses on Harrington St instead of just guessing that they’d block ang proposed new main stand ?

They would be informed of any developments of course, but the oft repeated claim that residents can stop stuff getting built just by opposing it is simply not true, but is often repeated on here.

There is a pre existing structure for a start, so it's not like the residents will suddenly have their view spoiled by a stand appearing over the summer. "I don't like it" is not a valid reason to get something blocked.

Not that I'm expecting the owners to go this route anyway, but if they did, there would be a consultation with the residents, and it would get the go ahead in my opinion.

Quoted from ginnywings

They would be informed of any developments of course, but the oft repeated claim that residents can stop stuff getting built just by opposing it is simply not true, but is often repeated on here.

There is a pre existing structure for a start, so it's not like the residents will suddenly have their view spoiled by a stand appearing over the summer. "I don't like it" is not a valid reason to get something blocked.

Not that I'm expecting the owners to go this route anyway, but if they did, there would be a consultation with the residents, and it would get the go ahead in my opinion.

You may have a point providing the developed stand covers the same footprint, the same height and capacity. Once you exceed those parameters then you are open to legitimate objections. Any increase in size would be classed as " intrusive and an invasion of privacy " and increased capacity would lead to objections for greater footfall and available parking. Consequently if you built "like for like " then all you would get is a more up to date stand with no advantage in increased capacity and revenue.

If I lived there I would want as many improvements done to BP as possible so it improves my view, just like we would all want our immediate surroundings to improve.

What's the alternative,  a stand which just get older and less attractive each year?

If it resulted in an increased capacity surely a solution can be found regarding increased traffic/parking.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

If I lived there I would want as many improvements done to BP as possible so it improves my view, just like we would all want our immediate surroundings to improve.

What's the alternative,  a stand which just get older and less attractive each year?

If it resulted in an increased capacity surely a solution can be found regarding increased traffic/parking.

But what solution is possible?  Posters often mention Park and Ride but that would hardly be practical for a yearly use of 23 approx occasions a year and I can't see any other practical application for such a scheme. It might be possible to incorporate such a scheme using a town centre car park in conjunction with Stagecoach but that would still lead to increased traffic problems in the town. I don't see any available sites close to the ground that could be used for car parking and again you also encounter under useage on days other than match days.

Quoted from rancido

But what solution is possible?  Posters often mention Park and Ride but that would hardly be practical for a yearly use of 23 approx occasions a year and I can't see any other practical application for such a scheme. It might be possible to incorporate such a scheme using a town centre car park in conjunction with Stagecoach but that would still lead to increased traffic problems in the town. I don't see any available sites close to the ground that could be used for car parking and again you also encounter under useage on days other than match days.

Even in the unlikely event of us trying to get a new stadium, there is always going to be congestion around a football stadium. Big car parks will be frowned upon anyway but the main point is that congestion around stadia is a fact of life so to a certain extent you have to accept it. Even if the capacity at BP was increased it is not the end of the world is it, otherwise we may as well give up completely.

Quoted from ginnywings

They would be informed of any developments of course, but the oft repeated claim that residents can stop stuff getting built just by opposing it is simply not true, but is often repeated on here.

There is a pre existing structure for a start, so it's not like the residents will suddenly have their view spoiled by a stand appearing over the summer. "I don't like it" is not a valid reason to get something blocked.

Not that I'm expecting the owners to go this route anyway, but if they did, there would be a consultation with the residents, and it would get the go ahead in my opinion.

You could get it done I'm sure , add in better disabled facilities  , maybe some sort of community hub and you are improving their community for a start - always thought a load more dog /dustbins down there would go down well , but then again maybe it's the residents putting mess allover the place , no end of times I have got to the car and had 'the smell' from one of my shoes when it's been dark .

Quoted from mariner91

There's absolutely no chance that buying the houses behind the Main Stand would cost even close to what a new stadium would cost.

Depends if people want to sell, the club might have to offer three, four or more times the actual value of properties to incentivise the owners to sell and even then there is no guarantee that the club would achive to objective of buying every property.

Besides it would hardly be seen as fair play from the Club trying to force people from their homes, and not the high standard of social responsibility expected from a B Corp organisation.

Quoted from rancido

But what solution is possible?  Posters often mention Park and Ride but that would hardly be practical for a yearly use of 23 approx occasions a year and I can't see any other practical application for such a scheme. It might be possible to incorporate such a scheme using a town centre car park in conjunction with Stagecoach but that would still lead to increased traffic problems in the town. I don't see any available sites close to the ground that could be used for car parking and again you also encounter under useage on days other than match days.

I cant see that a bit of traffic once every two weeks is cause for objecting, there's traffic anyway so another 2000 wont make any difference

Quoted from grimps

I cant see that a bit of traffic once every two weeks is cause for objecting, there's traffic anyway so another 2000 wont make any difference

I'm sure if it was a development near where you live and had no interest in then you would have a different point if view.

The sort of money required can only come from one source - government levelling up money, and it SHOULD.  Look at some of the "leisure" facilities being funded 100% by the government even now.  The football club would then become a tenant and not responsible for funding the upkeep (and no future owner of GTFC could use it to fund some other business "opportunity" that did for other clubs!)

Quoted from Azimuth

Depends if people want to sell, the club might have to offer three, four or more times the actual value of properties to incentivise the owners to sell and even then there is no guarantee that the club would achive to objective of buying every property.

Besides it would hardly be seen as fair play from the Club trying to force people from their homes, and not the high standard of social responsibility expected from a B Corp organisation.

Even if you had to pay three or four times the market price, it's still not even close to the £10's of millions that would be needed for a new stadium.

Barnsley have found a way to improve Oakwell.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-68061594


Edit.   Barnsley Council already own adjoining land with Pool ,Leisure Centre, and Training ground I believe so suits all involved especially locals.

Quoted from JK47

The sort of money required can only come from one source - government levelling up money, and it SHOULD.  Look at some of the "leisure" facilities being funded 100% by the government even now.  The football club would then become a tenant and not responsible for funding the upkeep (and no future owner of GTFC could use it to fund some other business "opportunity" that did for other clubs!)

Ship sailed.

Demolish Freshney Place and build a new facility there.

Quoted from rancido

But what solution is possible?  Posters often mention Park and Ride but that would hardly be practical for a yearly use of 23 approx occasions a year and I can't see any other practical application for such a scheme. It might be possible to incorporate such a scheme using a town centre car park in conjunction with Stagecoach but that would still lead to increased traffic problems in the town. I don't see any available sites close to the ground that could be used for car parking and again you also encounter under useage on days other than match days.

There you have it in a nutshell. A facility that is used around 50 hrs a year.  
Other clubs share costs with Rugby, or second teams. JF of course wanted to share the cost with some retail park, but that all disappeared and is a non-starter in today's high street shopping becoming deserts.

Just been to Tesco's and overheard a conversation. "They're going to demolish the main stand". Of course in Tesco ' Every Little Helps' and Clubcard points too.

Quoted from mariner91

Even if you had to pay three or four times the market price, it's still not even close to the £10's of millions that would be needed for a new stadium.

This is true, but remarkably difficult to get all residents to sell, it would only need one property owner to rufuse and the entire scheme would be delayed by months, years or decades.

Quoted from Azimuth

This is true, but remarkably difficult to get all residents to sell, it would only need one property owner to rufuse and the entire scheme would be delayed by months, years or decades.

True. I remember reading about the difficulties Liverpool had when they wanted to extend the Main Stand. They then let the area fall in to disrepair to try and force the remaining residents out (allegedly) which is really not very ethical and I doubt very B-corp.

Continuing my exploration for the existing footprint for a new Main Stand without need to purchase any properties, it looks like there is about 15m depth to play with, which is not too dissimilar to the most modern single tier stand at Sincil Bank and that holds 5,700.  This is looking at Google Maps. Even a 5,000 seat Main Stand would give us 2,500 extra seats and a capacity of around 11,000.

The Main Stand doesn't even go back to the boundary of the ground. There is space at the back for more rows of seats and with a cantilever roof, I doubt it would be any higher than the pitched roof already there, plus the highest part of the roof would be at the front, further away than it is now from the houses.

There is also the empty corner up to the Pontoon, so plenty of scope for a clever design if the owners wanted to go down this route. The stand could also house any number of different facilities.

Quoted from GibMariner

Ship sailed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/new-levelling-up-and-community-investments

No it hasn't.

Quoted from Marinerdeano

Continuing my exploration for the existing footprint for a new Main Stand without need to purchase any properties, it looks like there is about 15m depth to play with, which is not too dissimilar to the most modern single tier stand at Sincil Bank and that holds 5,700.  This is looking at Google Maps. Even a 5,000 seat Main Stand would give us 2,500 extra seats and a capacity of around 11,000.

All of which is common sense and perhaps a (best) way forward in the future.

The only major change I have seen in the structure of the ground is the Barrett stand being replaced with the Findus, and that is in over 60 years so it's not too much to hope for a new Main stand, if for the foreseeable future we need to stay at BP is it?

Quoted from rancido

But what solution is possible?  Posters often mention Park and Ride but that would hardly be practical for a yearly use of 23 approx occasions a year and I can't see any other practical application for such a scheme. It might be possible to incorporate such a scheme using a town centre car park in conjunction with Stagecoach but that would still lead to increased traffic problems in the town. I don't see any available sites close to the ground that could be used for car parking and again you also encounter under useage on days other than match days.

Park and ride could work but it’s not if it’s just for the football, it would get regular use in the summer if it continued on to the seafront.

Where I live the hospital has its own park and ride, it’s free for staff and 50p for patients. It’s really well used as parking at the hospital is a nightmare.