Todays attendance

Quoted from Mappers

There is that and about 10 teams being able to clear 3k away tickets if we getthere , let's hope they have a plan in place because it becomes a bit more important when you are missing out on about 50k people through the gate (££££) ballpark through a season because of a lack of capacity .

All that and corporate, which has been discussed on other threads. Not as extreme as national carrier airlines (ie non budget) and train companies, which make nearly or all their margin on first class, but one corporate place will be worth 5 or more through the turnstiles in terms of revenue, more for executive boxes. On top of that good quality corporate suite is a revenue earner on non-match days. Leicester Tigers have the biggest single corporate facility in the region I believe, at 1,000, with at least another 500 places in two other stands. 1,500 in a 25k stadium. Rugby will attract a bit more corporate proportionately so maybe 5% of capacity is a good target.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Average attendance in League One on Saturday was 13600 . How can we expect to function at that level on a sustainable break even basis if we don’t have significantly more capacity then we have now.That is the question I would like to here someone ask the owners.

You make a good point, but the average you are talking about is the ‘mean’. The more suitable average would be the ‘median’, with the attendances ranked in ascending order - this way you get to see that the likes of Derby actually skew the results hugely. I would hazard a guess there are a good fistful of L1 clubs right now who wouldn’t be able to compete with us for numbers/income. Not many, but a fair few more than 4 (4 being the number who go down).

L1 did shed 3 minnows last season though, so I do agree it will likely get tougher to compete over the next few years.

If the likes of Lincoln are looking to increase their capacity, then it’s clear we need too as well if we want to ever establish ourselves a division above where we currently find ourselves.

Can we afford to be in league one with our sustainable model ? Genuine question

Quoted from It Bites

Can we afford to be in league one with our sustainable model ? Genuine question

Touch and go, I’d say. Lincoln, with crowds of maybe 1-2000 more than us right now (but admittedly with a ground pretty much as sh#t) lose a million or so every season, and lost 3-0 on Saturday, with a tough season ahead of them. So throwing money at it to keep afloat and stay out of the bottom 4 is the minimum needed for them.

Tough division. L2 is hardly easy to compete in either! Football has changed.

Quoted from Heisenberg

Touch and go, I’d say. Lincoln, with crowds of maybe 1-2000 more than us right now (but admittedly with a ground pretty much as sh#t) lose a million or so every season, and lost 3-0 on Saturday, with a tough season ahead of them. So throwing money at it to keep afloat and stay out of the bottom 4 is the minimum needed for them.

Tough division. L2 is hardly easy to compete in either! Football has changed.

Yeah I think you’re right .

I'd take top end of league 2 or yoyo from 1 to 2. I don't expect us to be promoted to league 1 and not then have a relegation scrap. It's unrealistic

I don't think it would be impossible to compete with half of league 1 - Lincoln , Fleetwood , Cambridge , Wycombe , Carlisle , Leyton Orient ,Burton and Stevenage off the top of my head would not be light years away from us in terms of budgets & attendances - the top end budget wise is a different story  but I don't think with the right infrastructure and recruitment model it's impossible to be challenging even - see Wycombe,Rotherham and Peterborough .

Likely - no
Possible- why not ?

We need this cspacity thing sorted though - say we are doing well at Xmas ,after xmas  home sell outs with having to give the majority of away teams that larger section and then actually go right through to league 1 we would be missing out on potentially about a million quid in ticket sales over a season and a half - there must be a cost effective way short term to make 500-1000 home seats available ; even if its 2 covered temporary stands in the corners + it's win win - don't have the demand(which I doubt) and we can offer the full away end , more demand keep the 600 seats in the corner of the osmond + the additional ..

In agreement with Herve on this one .

Quoted from Mappers

I don't think it would be impossible to compete with half of league 1 - Lincoln , Fleetwood , Cambridge , Wycombe , Carlisle , Leyton Orient ,Burton and Stevenage off the top of my head would not be light years away from us in terms of budgets & attendances - the top end budget wise is a different story  but I don't think with the right infrastructure and recruitment model it's impossible to be challenging even - see Wycombe,Rotherham and Peterborough .

Likely - no
Possible- why not ?

We need this cspacity thing sorted though - say we are doing well at Xmas ,after xmas  home sell outs with having to give the majority of away teams that larger section and then actually go right through to league 1 we would be missing out on potentially about a million quid in ticket sales over a season and a half - there must be a cost effective way short term to make 500-1000 home seats available ; even if its 2 covered temporary stands in the corners + it's win win - don't have the demand(which I doubt) and we can offer the full away end , more demand keep the 600 seats in the corner of the osmond + the additional ..

In agreement with Herve on this one .

I am at a complete loss why you continue to raise this issue. The board have said they will not be progressing it - and in the short term we can't afford to. May be, just may be, the reasoning for not expanding our ground so far falls under the following reasons:

it's too expensive
planning permission would not be granted, especially for people's ideas of increasing the Main Stand
Health and safety requirements wouldn't be met
The cost of putting in additional seats in the 'cage' or open corners would far exceed the return on investment
Increasing capacity on the Home end results in having to increase away end capacity - this means that some games would mean less 'Home' tickets available
The Board are waiting until the end of the season for when grants become available to do some improvement works

I appreciate people may think we are missing out on revenue from people not being able to attend, though just feel this is being used as a stick to beat the owners with. Fenty said for 20 years that we would be building a new stadium and he never delivered, yet people always thought we'd be moving to a Conoco style stadium. The current owners have said they won't be building one for the foreseeable future
and seem to be getting flack for it. Personally, I appreciate the honesty of the current lot.

Quoted from SteffiMariner

I am at a complete loss why you continue to raise this issue. The board have said they will not be progressing it - and in the short term we can't afford to. May be, just may be, the reasoning for not expanding our ground so far falls under the following reasons:

it's too expensive
planning permission would not be granted, especially for people's ideas of increasing the Main Stand
Health and safety requirements wouldn't be met
The cost of putting in additional seats in the 'cage' or open corners would far exceed the return on investment
Increasing capacity on the Home end results in having to increase away end capacity - this means that some games would mean less 'Home' tickets available
The Board are waiting until the end of the season for when grants become available to do some improvement works

I appreciate people may think we are missing out on revenue from people not being able to attend, though just feel this is being used as a stick to beat the owners with. Fenty said for 20 years that we would be building a new stadium and he never delivered, yet people always thought we'd be moving to a Conoco style stadium. The current owners have said they won't be building one for the foreseeable future
and seem to be getting flack for it. Personally, I appreciate the honesty of the current lot.

I am not taking a pop at the current regime , far from it , it's a testament to their relative success that we even have his problem . I think there is a difference between criticsm and constructive ideas to progress ; before people , if things do go well are 'beating them with a stick' when they can't get a ticket for love nor money at BP  .

Surely to progress we need to grow short,medium and long term .

I would disagree it's definitely too expensive to add seats (I mean we managed it with the green seats , Barrow and Sutton are adding extra capacity and I hardly imagine they are rolling in it ) .

The away ticket allocation would not change unless we went over around 12k capacity ,we could still offer the 1200 .

So is  your suggestion that  we should just be happy with our lot in a 8500 seater stadium forever ?

I would hope we have more ambition .

I really don't see how people raising this issue equates to criticism, having a different point of view and debate is not beating anyone over the head on an issue. This is not over the iron curtain in Scunthorpe where you can't disagree with the owner on an issue.

BP represents a glass ceiling for this club as it severely restricts income and as an end of life asset costs a lot to maintain. Attendances in league one pretty much confirm that.

Is it possible for us to complete in L1 at BP - yes, how likely is that - unknown. Does BP make that easier or harder - I would have thought harder, I can't see how that is the least bit controversial.  Can the owners afford a new stadium - it appears not. Why not consider attracting other investors who potentially could?