- Print Topic - Archive

Quoted from chaos33

Sorry, when did he say he ‘never wants to leave BP’? Must’ve missed that.

Dean ' have the increased attendances made you think about a new stadium in the future ?'

Stockwood 'Not really '

And then he went on to say about all the work that needs doing at bp , next summer there will be major works on The Main and Osmond . He also said there is lot's more to do and the possibility of filling in the corners at BP if we filll it regularly.No real progress with the training ground.

I think we probably are staying at BP at least in the medium term , and will be ploughing a lot of money into it - hopefully a new PA system and disabled facilities is quite high on their 'list'.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Did anybody tell him it was a sellout. All very odd . Prefer honesty to BS.

If there weren't any tickets left for the home fans then it is a sell out. The "no show" ST contingent of fans doesn't come into it - that is a separate issue and is being addressed. My friend, who sits behind me in the Upper Youngs, couldn't attend, informed the club and his seat was made available and sold.

Quoted from Mappers

Dean ' have the increased attendances made you think about a new stadium in the future ?'

Stockwood 'Not really '

And then he went on to say about all the work that needs doing at bp , next summer there will be major works on The Main and Osmond . He also said there is lot's more to do and the possibility of filling in the corners at BP if we filll it regularly.No real progress with the training ground.

I think we probably are staying at BP at least in the medium term , and will be ploughing a lot of money into it - hopefully a new PA system and disabled facilities is quite high on their 'list'.

Most likely because they don't have the £50M or so it would require to build a new stadium. I would love an 8 bedroomed, 16 bathroomed, 44 reception roomed house with 20 garages, olympic sized swimming pool and a garden the size of a small village. I can't though, because I can't afford it. A bit like a new stadium, it isn't affordable.

Quoted from SteffiMariner

Most likely because they don't have the £50M or so it would require to build a new stadium. I would love an 8 bedroomed, 16 bathroomed, 44 reception roomed house with 20 garages, olympic sized swimming pool and a garden the size of a small village. I can't though, because I can't afford it. A bit like a new stadium, it isn't affordable.

They’ve not even delivered a new training ground they said we would have, so no chance of seeing a new ground in many of our lifetimes.

Quoted from SteffiMariner

Most likely because they don't have the £50M or so it would require to build a new stadium. I would love an 8 bedroomed, 16 bathroomed, 44 reception roomed house with 20 garages, olympic sized swimming pool and a garden the size of a small village. I can't though, because I can't afford it. A bit like a new stadium, it isn't affordable.

So maybe it's time for everyone to put their heads together to help make BP a decent facility - us fans and the trust included . Make our house as good as it can be .

Quoted from SteffiMariner

Most likely because they don't have the £50M or so it would require to build a new stadium. I would love an 8 bedroomed, 16 bathroomed, 44 reception roomed house with 20 garages, olympic sized swimming pool and a garden the size of a small village. I can't though, because I can't afford it. A bit like a new stadium, it isn't affordable.

I don’t doubt for one moment that a new stadium isn’t feasible at the moment. .
I also think that filling in the corners etc is more difficult and expensive than we realise.
So if JS says thats why it’s not happening then that’s fine.
But to deny there is a problem (yes a nice one to have) when there clearly is, is frustrating. Especially from someone who seems to have a good handle on running this club and engaging with the fans.

Quoted from Civvy at last

I don’t doubt for one moment that a new stadium isn’t feasible at the moment. .
I also think that filling in the corners etc is more difficult and expensive than we realise.
So if JS says thats why it’s not happening then that’s fine.
But to deny there is a problem (yes a nice one to have) when there clearly is, is frustrating. Especially from someone who seems to have a good handle on running this club and engaging with the fans.

Agree Civvy , he has consistently not recognised the issue (or is pretending ) we will have more demand than supply for at least 10 games with no seats being available for people that want to attend - we can debate until the cows come home how many that is , but surely it requires a relatively quick solution ?

I think knocking the police box down and extending the main stand round to the pontoon is the first thing to do.

The other corners can be done later but if we have a successful season the call for extending the main stand will only get louder and louder.

This is not a moan at Jason or Andrew I think they are doing all they can but there is so many other things they have to do because of the previous owner's neglect.

All things that need doing at the park will be done its just going to take time and a lot of money.

We have a great set of owners and board now all working for one goal a better environment for all and most importantly a listening ear for all fans.

Onwards and upwards together.

The club definitely needs to increase the capacity. We need to look at tickets sold, not attendances.

If yesterday was a sell-out, and sell-outs are becoming more and more frequent (which they are) then they must have a plan in place otherwise they’re not capitalising on the interest a new generation of fans are showing, and that could damage us long term.

I’d say it’s more likely that they do have a plan, but are keeping things close to their chest. I’d be very disappointed if nothing is done about increasing BP’s capacity over the next season or two.

We've had a long discussion about this before. The club always gives the attendance as ' bums' on seats. This does not include the ST's holders who have not turned up but the club have received money for.

So taking an approx full house at 8,800 less the 1,200 away allocation it looks as if the gate yesterday of 7,412 was pretty good especially when you factor in the ST's who didn't turn up.

I seem to recall JS saying something like the break-even point, last year, was going to be in the region of 6,500, so he should be happy on that figure of 7,412.

To me, they are doing a good job at BP considering the state it was in when they inherited from the previous regime. It's far from perfect but a total rebuild will be out of the question for financial reasons, however, they are doing it 'piecemeal'. I look forward to seeing what is going to happen to the main stand and Omond stand next year.

UTM

Quoted from Mappers

Dean ' have the increased attendances made you think about a new stadium in the future ?'

Stockwood 'Not really '

And then he went on to say about all the work that needs doing at bp , next summer there will be major works on The Main and Osmond . He also said there is lot's more to do and the possibility of filling in the corners at BP if we filll it regularly.No real progress with the training ground.

I think we probably are staying at BP at least in the medium term , and will be ploughing a lot of money into it - hopefully a new PA system and disabled facilities is quite high on their 'list'.

Right well that’s different to ‘clearly never’ isn’t it. Seems that they see our foreseeable future at BP, but I think everybody can agree that a new stadium would be hugely beneficial and probably required in the medium to long term.

Quoted from Humbercod

They’ve not even delivered a new training ground they said we would have, so no chance of seeing a new ground in many of our lifetimes.

You can Red Cross this guy all you want, but his frustration is probably justified.

Some clarity from the owners would be a good start, but I don’t think we’d like the true answer - “we priced up the new training ground and it’d be £7m of dead money we’ll never see back, and the only way we’ll get a ground is if someone else pays for it, because we haven’t got £50m and a loan of such an amount would make the club go bust”. I think that’s about the sum of it. It pains me to say, but we missed the boat with a new stadium, and it wasn’t Jason or Andrew’s fault as they came in too late, I’ll give them that.

Regards the training ground, I believe that the preferred site is identified but is tied up with wider council issues and also possibly Sport England or some government initiative on green spaces and funding.

Quoted from Mappers

Herve you would not be happy if you heard the Stockwood interview ?

No interest in capacity increase atm ,saying we are only getting 6k fans so it's not required .

When I was born Grantham had a cinema with 1 screen that was built in the late 70s. They added a second screen in the late 1980s. The seats were horrible in both and it wasn't a pleasant experience to go there. We used to go to Showcase in either Nottingham or Peterborough (both around 40 minutes drive) every time we went to the cinema.

About 5 years ago the cinema was bulldozed and a 5 screen cinema was built over the site and a small adjacent council staff car park. The seats are much comfier and the experience much nice than the previous cinema.

As a result more people go to Grantham Cinema than used to go.

Build it and they will come.

I can't imagine for one minute that Stockwood with his successful career doesn't fully understand that.

If the facilities at our home ground were better (seats, no posts, nicer toilets, better catering, more spacious concourse area, better PA system etc...) then more people will come.

There are very few decent view seats left in BP for the casual fan and none at all if you want more than 1 ticket..

If the experience of attending Grimsby Town home matches was better then the attendances would rise. You only have to look at the attendance boosts that clubs who have moved from grotty old dumps to new stadiums have gained.

I appreciate JS & AP have a policy of not talking about things until they reach the point where they will become public (i.e.planning permission stage), but that policy shouldn't extend to telling blatant lies and making out BP is big enough because it was cater for all the fans that want to attend a home match against someone like Morecambe.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

When I was born Grantham had a cinema with 1 screen that was built in the late 70s. They added a second screen in the late 1980s. The seats were horrible in both and it wasn't a pleasant experience to go there. We used to go to Showcase in either Nottingham or Peterborough (both around 40 minutes drive) every time we went to the cinema.

About 5 years ago the cinema was bulldozed and a 5 screen cinema was built over the site and a small adjacent council staff car park. The seats are much comfier and the experience much nice than the previous cinema.

As a result more people go to Grantham Cinema than used to go.

Build it and they will come.

I can't imagine for one minute that Stockwood with his successful career doesn't fully understand that.

If the facilities at our home ground were better (seats, no posts, nicer toilets, better catering, more spacious concourse area, better PA system etc...) then more people will come.

There are very few decent view seats left in BP for the casual fan and none at all if you want more than 1 ticket..

If the experience of attending Grimsby Town home matches was better then the attendances would rise. You only have to look at the attendance boosts that clubs who have moved from grotty old dumps to new stadiums have gained.

I appreciate JS & AP have a policy of not talking about things until they reach the point where they will become public (i.e.planning permission stage), but that policy shouldn't extend to telling blatant lies and making out BP is big enough because it was cater for all the fans that want to attend a home match against someone like Morecambe.

Agree Golly with all.

I use to use a similar analogy with the cinema down freemo. People use to travel to dull or scunny rather than freemo.
Then they built a new cinema down meggies and then they stopped travelling to use it.
New up to date facilities will attract more fans, but how many is debatable, not to mention the cost of relocating.

Quoted from Mappers

Agree Golly with all.

"Build it and they will come" I like that phrase .
We are all in agreement the club is in a better place, well clear of "Fentygate" era .
When Where and how much is now in the hands of 1878 the future of the club.
We wait and see .
I fear patience is the key on this one plus any other issues that niggles your average fan.
At my age in life what happens to the old girl BP, memories last forever.
UTM2023--24

Quoted from grimsby pete

I think knocking the police box down and extending the main stand round to the pontoon is the first thing to do.

The other corners can be done later but if we have a successful season the call for extending the main stand will only get louder and louder.

This is not a moan at Jason or Andrew I think they are doing all they can but there is so many other things they have to do because of the previous owner's neglect.

All things that need doing at the park will be done its just going to take time and a lot of money.

We have a great set of owners and board now all working for one goal a better environment for all and most importantly a listening ear for all fans.

Onwards and upwards together.

Any money spent isn’t going to make BP that much better Pete. People in power have talked so much about how the area needs to be improved, surely a multi purpose, community facility funded partly by the club in conjunction with various levelling up funds and on disused land would encourage more people to watch GTFC. Most away fans sing ‘Grimsby’ a shithole’ and they’re not wrong.

To put this debate to bed WILL ALL SEASON TICKET/ HOLDER PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU ATTEND THE MANSFIELD GAME ON THE 19th AUGUST and hopefully Mansfield will sell their full allocation and we just need someone to add all the unsold tickets and take it off the official attendance SORTED

Quoted from moosey_club

Regards the training ground, I believe that the preferred site is identified but is tied up with wider council issues and also possibly Sport England or some government initiative on green spaces and funding.

If that's the case frankly I'd just move to the next site on the list and get on with it, inflation waits for no one.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

If that's the case frankly I'd just move to the next site on the list and get on with it, inflation waits for no one.

Cheapside must be pretty decent now given the money spent on it. I’d rather see the £7 million allegedly being earmarked for the training ground spent on a stadium.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

When I was born Grantham had a cinema with 1 screen that was built in the late 70s. They added a second screen in the late 1980s. The seats were horrible in both and it wasn't a pleasant experience to go there. We used to go to Showcase in either Nottingham or Peterborough (both around 40 minutes drive) every time we went to the cinema.

About 5 years ago the cinema was bulldozed and a 5 screen cinema was built over the site and a small adjacent council staff car park. The seats are much comfier and the experience much nice than the previous cinema.

As a result more people go to Grantham Cinema than used to go.

Build it and they will come.

I can't imagine for one minute that Stockwood with his successful career doesn't fully understand that.

If the facilities at our home ground were better (seats, no posts, nicer toilets, better catering, more spacious concourse area, better PA system etc...) then more people will come.

There are very few decent view seats left in BP for the casual fan and none at all if you want more than 1 ticket..

If the experience of attending Grimsby Town home matches was better then the attendances would rise. You only have to look at the attendance boosts that clubs who have moved from grotty old dumps to new stadiums have gained.

I appreciate JS & AP have a policy of not talking about things until they reach the point where they will become public (i.e.planning permission stage), but that policy shouldn't extend to telling blatant lies and making out BP is big enough because it was cater for all the fans that want to attend a home match against someone like Morecambe.

The point is that a company with many cinema outlets around the country can afford to speculate and afford one new outlet. The overall investment will be covered by the income from the rest of the group. Also, although I don't really know, I imagine the cost of building a new cinema complex would be less than building a football stadium. We don't have the luxury of other facets of our business to help fund and support a new ground.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Cheapside must be pretty decent now given the money spent on it. I’d rather see the £7 million allegedly being earmarked for the training ground spent on a stadium.

You raise an interesting point regarding the training ground.

Would it be possible to redevlop Cheapside in line with what they want, for a lot less? How many clubs at our level have such extraordinary training facilities that it influences players to move there?

I know they have ambitious plans for things to be at the heart of the community but everything has a cost, and getting anything new done in Grimsby seems to be fraught with difficulty.

I don't think we agree on the new stadium, as I think with a part rebuild BP would be good enough for our foreseeable needs, and I think a new stadium is too expensive and light years away, so I would put the savings made on a training facility into Blundell Park.

Andrew Pettit is the ideal man to decide on these things given his background but even he doesn't appear to have made much progress on the training ground proposals, which could be made public at least.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You raise an interesting point regarding the training ground.

Would it be possible to redevlop Cheapside in line with what they want, for a lot less? How many clubs at our level have such extraordinary training facilities that it influences players to move there?

I know they have ambitious plans for things to be at the heart of the community but everything has a cost, and getting anything new done in Grimsby seems to be fraught with difficulty.

I don't think we agree on the new stadium, as I think with a part rebuild BP would be good enough for our foreseeable needs, and I think a new stadium is too expensive and light years away, so I would put the savings made on a training facility into Blundell Park.

Andrew Pettit is the ideal man to decide on these things given his background but even he doesn't appear to have made much progress on the training ground proposals, which could be made public at least.

We do have different opinions regarding a stadium because I think that, despite massive differences of opinion on many issues, Fenty was right about finding new and different revenue streams. My first experience of BP was as a 4 year old in 1968 in the Main Stand and it’s as woeful now as it was then. The only difference is that there appears to be more irresponsible dog owners in Harrington Street 💩

If we are successful this season, attendances should increase. It is a too late then to react to the need for an increased capacity. Proactive measures are better surely?

We don't own Cheapside.  That's the first big barrier towards any significant investment in the infrastructure there.

The second issue with Cheapside is the size of it.  It's fairly small to be housing all sides and staff.

The third issue is the location.  It's neither at the heart of the community nor easily accessible for anyone who doesn't live that way on.  It's a harsh reality that players will be travelling into the area and that they'll be spending the majority of their time at the training ground as opposed to the actual ground.  Adding 30-40 minutes onto someone's daily commute to get to the far side of Waltham isn't attractive.

Average attendance in League One on Saturday was 13600 . How can we expect to function at that level on a sustainable break even basis if we don’t have significantly more capacity then we have now.That is the question I would like to here someone ask the owners.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Average attendance in League One on Saturday was 13600 . How can we expect to function at that level on a sustainable break even basis if we don’t have significantly more capacity then we have now.That is the question I would like to here someone ask the owners.

There is that and about 10 teams being able to clear 3k away tickets if we getthere , let's hope they have a plan in place because it becomes a bit more important when you are missing out on about 50k people through the gate (££££) ballpark through a season because of a lack of capacity .

Quoted from Mappers

There is that and about 10 teams being able to clear 3k away tickets if we getthere , let's hope they have a plan in place because it becomes a bit more important when you are missing out on about 50k people through the gate (££££) ballpark through a season because of a lack of capacity .

All that and corporate, which has been discussed on other threads. Not as extreme as national carrier airlines (ie non budget) and train companies, which make nearly or all their margin on first class, but one corporate place will be worth 5 or more through the turnstiles in terms of revenue, more for executive boxes. On top of that good quality corporate suite is a revenue earner on non-match days. Leicester Tigers have the biggest single corporate facility in the region I believe, at 1,000, with at least another 500 places in two other stands. 1,500 in a 25k stadium. Rugby will attract a bit more corporate proportionately so maybe 5% of capacity is a good target.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Average attendance in League One on Saturday was 13600 . How can we expect to function at that level on a sustainable break even basis if we don’t have significantly more capacity then we have now.That is the question I would like to here someone ask the owners.

You make a good point, but the average you are talking about is the ‘mean’. The more suitable average would be the ‘median’, with the attendances ranked in ascending order - this way you get to see that the likes of Derby actually skew the results hugely. I would hazard a guess there are a good fistful of L1 clubs right now who wouldn’t be able to compete with us for numbers/income. Not many, but a fair few more than 4 (4 being the number who go down).

L1 did shed 3 minnows last season though, so I do agree it will likely get tougher to compete over the next few years.

If the likes of Lincoln are looking to increase their capacity, then it’s clear we need too as well if we want to ever establish ourselves a division above where we currently find ourselves.

Can we afford to be in league one with our sustainable model ? Genuine question

Quoted from It Bites

Can we afford to be in league one with our sustainable model ? Genuine question

Touch and go, I’d say. Lincoln, with crowds of maybe 1-2000 more than us right now (but admittedly with a ground pretty much as sh#t) lose a million or so every season, and lost 3-0 on Saturday, with a tough season ahead of them. So throwing money at it to keep afloat and stay out of the bottom 4 is the minimum needed for them.

Tough division. L2 is hardly easy to compete in either! Football has changed.

Quoted from Heisenberg

Touch and go, I’d say. Lincoln, with crowds of maybe 1-2000 more than us right now (but admittedly with a ground pretty much as sh#t) lose a million or so every season, and lost 3-0 on Saturday, with a tough season ahead of them. So throwing money at it to keep afloat and stay out of the bottom 4 is the minimum needed for them.

Tough division. L2 is hardly easy to compete in either! Football has changed.

Yeah I think you’re right .

I'd take top end of league 2 or yoyo from 1 to 2. I don't expect us to be promoted to league 1 and not then have a relegation scrap. It's unrealistic

I don't think it would be impossible to compete with half of league 1 - Lincoln , Fleetwood , Cambridge , Wycombe , Carlisle , Leyton Orient ,Burton and Stevenage off the top of my head would not be light years away from us in terms of budgets & attendances - the top end budget wise is a different story but I don't think with the right infrastructure and recruitment model it's impossible to be challenging even - see Wycombe,Rotherham and Peterborough .

Likely - no
Possible- why not ?

We need this cspacity thing sorted though - say we are doing well at Xmas ,after xmas home sell outs with having to give the majority of away teams that larger section and then actually go right through to league 1 we would be missing out on potentially about a million quid in ticket sales over a season and a half - there must be a cost effective way short term to make 500-1000 home seats available ; even if its 2 covered temporary stands in the corners + it's win win - don't have the demand(which I doubt) and we can offer the full away end , more demand keep the 600 seats in the corner of the osmond + the additional ..

In agreement with Herve on this one .

Quoted from Mappers

I don't think it would be impossible to compete with half of league 1 - Lincoln , Fleetwood , Cambridge , Wycombe , Carlisle , Leyton Orient ,Burton and Stevenage off the top of my head would not be light years away from us in terms of budgets & attendances - the top end budget wise is a different story but I don't think with the right infrastructure and recruitment model it's impossible to be challenging even - see Wycombe,Rotherham and Peterborough .

Likely - no
Possible- why not ?

We need this cspacity thing sorted though - say we are doing well at Xmas ,after xmas home sell outs with having to give the majority of away teams that larger section and then actually go right through to league 1 we would be missing out on potentially about a million quid in ticket sales over a season and a half - there must be a cost effective way short term to make 500-1000 home seats available ; even if its 2 covered temporary stands in the corners + it's win win - don't have the demand(which I doubt) and we can offer the full away end , more demand keep the 600 seats in the corner of the osmond + the additional ..

In agreement with Herve on this one .

I am at a complete loss why you continue to raise this issue. The board have said they will not be progressing it - and in the short term we can't afford to. May be, just may be, the reasoning for not expanding our ground so far falls under the following reasons:

it's too expensive
planning permission would not be granted, especially for people's ideas of increasing the Main Stand
Health and safety requirements wouldn't be met
The cost of putting in additional seats in the 'cage' or open corners would far exceed the return on investment
Increasing capacity on the Home end results in having to increase away end capacity - this means that some games would mean less 'Home' tickets available
The Board are waiting until the end of the season for when grants become available to do some improvement works

I appreciate people may think we are missing out on revenue from people not being able to attend, though just feel this is being used as a stick to beat the owners with. Fenty said for 20 years that we would be building a new stadium and he never delivered, yet people always thought we'd be moving to a Conoco style stadium. The current owners have said they won't be building one for the foreseeable future
and seem to be getting flack for it. Personally, I appreciate the honesty of the current lot.

Quoted from SteffiMariner

I am at a complete loss why you continue to raise this issue. The board have said they will not be progressing it - and in the short term we can't afford to. May be, just may be, the reasoning for not expanding our ground so far falls under the following reasons:

it's too expensive
planning permission would not be granted, especially for people's ideas of increasing the Main Stand
Health and safety requirements wouldn't be met
The cost of putting in additional seats in the 'cage' or open corners would far exceed the return on investment
Increasing capacity on the Home end results in having to increase away end capacity - this means that some games would mean less 'Home' tickets available
The Board are waiting until the end of the season for when grants become available to do some improvement works

I appreciate people may think we are missing out on revenue from people not being able to attend, though just feel this is being used as a stick to beat the owners with. Fenty said for 20 years that we would be building a new stadium and he never delivered, yet people always thought we'd be moving to a Conoco style stadium. The current owners have said they won't be building one for the foreseeable future
and seem to be getting flack for it. Personally, I appreciate the honesty of the current lot.

I am not taking a pop at the current regime , far from it , it's a testament to their relative success that we even have his problem . I think there is a difference between criticsm and constructive ideas to progress ; before people , if things do go well are 'beating them with a stick' when they can't get a ticket for love nor money at BP .

Surely to progress we need to grow short,medium and long term .

I would disagree it's definitely too expensive to add seats (I mean we managed it with the green seats , Barrow and Sutton are adding extra capacity and I hardly imagine they are rolling in it ) .

The away ticket allocation would not change unless we went over around 12k capacity ,we could still offer the 1200 .

So is your suggestion that we should just be happy with our lot in a 8500 seater stadium forever ?

I would hope we have more ambition .

I really don't see how people raising this issue equates to criticism, having a different point of view and debate is not beating anyone over the head on an issue. This is not over the iron curtain in Scunthorpe where you can't disagree with the owner on an issue.

BP represents a glass ceiling for this club as it severely restricts income and as an end of life asset costs a lot to maintain. Attendances in league one pretty much confirm that.

Is it possible for us to complete in L1 at BP - yes, how likely is that - unknown. Does BP make that easier or harder - I would have thought harder, I can't see how that is the least bit controversial. Can the owners afford a new stadium - it appears not. Why not consider attracting other investors who potentially could?

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

I really don't see how people raising this issue equates to criticism, having a different point of view and debate is not beating anyone over the head on an issue.

I think a lot of people are just fed up of reading the exact same points and exact same arguments over and over and over again, across every second thread on here, every few days for the past 12 months and seemingly for the next season to come.

Especially when the owners have said, on a few occasions now, that nothing is going to be happening in the immediate future. Maybe not the answer most people want to hear, but rehashing the same points every other day on here isn’t going to make any difference.

Maybe there’s a more efficient way to make the case - the fans have two representatives who sit on the board, why not get in their ear? Has anyone asked the Trust for an official view on the matter?

Ipswich is similar in size to Grimsby / Cleephorpes, and like us, no real competition from nearby bigger teams. They have over 13,000 season ticket holders. What's to say that we couldn't get a similar number with the right marketing?

Your reasons why are pretty much bang on Steffi.

But I think it's probably naïve to think 1878 aren't exploring options to expand our capacity, despite the noises they are making. They're neither stupid or deaf. They'll know what's going on, they'll know what rumblings are going on amongst fans and they'll be well aware that if we go up a level then demand is going to well and truly outstrip capacity.

My sneaky suspicion is that they're testing the water a little more this year to just check the increase isn't a flash in the pan, but rather than do a bit of a sticky-plaster job this year they'll look to make significant improvements to the capacity (cleverly linking it in with the needed and funded improvements to the existing stands).

Quoted from ska face

I think a lot of people are just fed up of reading the exact same points and exact same arguments over and over and over again, across every second thread on here, every few days for the past 12 months and seemingly for the next season to come.

Especially when the owners have said, on a few occasions now, that nothing is going to be happening in the immediate future. Maybe not the answer most people want to hear, but rehashing the same points every other day on here isn’t going to make any difference.

Maybe there’s a more efficient way to make the case - the fans have two representatives who sit on the board, why not get in their ear? Has anyone asked the Trust for an official view on the matter?

Fair points, it is a bit annoying being spaffed over multiple threads, personally I just tend to skim read so just fly by a lot of the noise.

They have delivered a lot of good , I don't think anyone is doubting that , but you can argue when on the rise is the time to 'strike it hot ' - I think a second succesive season of 5500 + shows now the core fanbase is there and last season was not just a one off in terms of crowds at BP - let's face it last season at home would be reason enough for people not to renew , but the majority did .

A genuine question to finish
Imagine we went up , we just did 5500 ST's after a poor home season in league 2 , did nearly 5.9k after promotion from the NL alone ; does anyone genuinely believe we would not max out the 6.4k home seats in season tickets alone if we actually went right through to league 1 ?

But like you say Swansea it is a bit repetitive , I will leave it to others and later in the season to debate - let's just hope it is a problem because it will mean we are doing well!

Quoted from ska face

I think a lot of people are just fed up of reading the exact same points and exact same arguments over and over and over again, across every second thread on here, every few days for the past 12 months and seemingly for the next season to come.

Especially when the owners have said, on a few occasions now, that nothing is going to be happening in the immediate future. Maybe not the answer most people want to hear, but rehashing the same points every other day on here isn’t going to make any difference.

Maybe there’s a more efficient way to make the case - the fans have two representatives who sit on the board, why not get in their ear? Has anyone asked the Trust for an official view on the matter?

Yes let’s get back to the non repetitive 320 page transfer rumour thread or the 310 page kicking our neighbours when they are down thread far more important then how our club is to have a viable future beyond wallowing along in the nether regions of League 2

Quoted from HerveJosse

Yes let’s get back to the non repetitive 320 page transfer rumour thread or the 310 page kicking our neighbours when they are down thread far more important then how our club is to have a viable future beyond wallowing along in the nether regions of League 2

But you're not comparing like with like. Those 2 threads evolve as things happen , the capacity/seating issue doesnt change. We all know what the situation is and it wont change anytime soon.. there is a suspicion that certain posters use it as a way to try n chip away at 1878

Quoted from HerveJosse

Yes let’s get back to the non repetitive 320 page transfer rumour thread or the 310 page kicking our neighbours when they are down thread far more important then how our club is to have a viable future beyond wallowing along in the nether regions of League 2

But those two threads are completely different, they have different topics and are actually as relevant as wittering on every 2nd thread about the fact a few folk can’t into BP.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Yes let’s get back to the non repetitive 320 page transfer rumour thread or the 310 page kicking our neighbours when they are down thread far more important then how our club is to have a viable future beyond wallowing along in the nether regions of League 2

You might’ve had a point if those issues were being shoehorned into every other thread on here, rather than their own individual ones. Another valuable contribution though.

Quoted from mimma

Ipswich is similar in size to Grimsby / Cleephorpes, and like us, no real competition from nearby bigger teams. They have over 13,000 season ticket holders. What's to say that we couldn't get a similar number with the right marketing?

Town size yes, population catchment area no. There are quite a few medium sized towns like Bury St Edmunds, Stowmarket, Sudbury, Newmarket etc that are Ipswich Town strongholds and hundreds more decent sized villages than NE Lincs. Don't doubt we'll need extra capacity and need to attract more fans to home games in the near future to progress, but let's also be realistic in what our reach is as a football club too..

Posting about the obvious need for a new stadium or increasing capacity isn’t criticism, the board should really be a bit more open about any future plans ( if any ) they might have though .
If they don’t have any plans then it’s quite clear that they should

Quoted from Bigdog

Town size yes, population catchment area no. There are quite a few medium sized towns like Bury St Edmunds, Stowmarket, Sudbury, Newmarket etc that are Ipswich Town strongholds and hundreds more decent sized villages than NE Lincs. Don't doubt we'll need extra capacity and need to attract more fans to home games in the near future to progress, but let's also be realistic in what our reach is as a football club too..

I saw this a little while back (and it’s not quite up to date, as Scunny are on it), but this map slices up England according to each areas nearest football league or Premier League club. It doesn’t tell the whole story of course as it’s based on land mass only and not population size, nor does it factor in the quality of travel links in places like Devon and Cornwall, but it gives you a rough flavour of how we compare to other locations (which is basically about average, but without the benefit of a major urban population close by).

Quoted from Bigdog

Town size yes, population catchment area no. There are quite a few medium sized towns like Bury St Edmunds, Stowmarket, Sudbury, Newmarket etc that are Ipswich Town strongholds and hundreds more decent sized villages than NE Lincs. Don't doubt we'll need extra capacity and need to attract more fans to home games in the near future to progress, but let's also be realistic in what our reach is as a football club too..

If we we were' in the top flight like Ipswich were, have no doubt that Barton, Barrow Brigg, Louth, Scunthorpe (!) Market Rasen Immingham and everyman and his dog would be GTFC strongholds. Just the small matter of getting there.

Quoted from Poojah

I saw this a little while back (and it’s not quite up to date, as Scunny are on it), but this map slices up England according to each areas nearest football league or Premier League club. It doesn’t tell the whole story of course as it’s based on land mass only and not population size, nor does it factor in the quality of travel links in places like Devon and Cornwall, but it gives you a rough flavour of how we compare to other locations (which is basically about average, but without the benefit of a major urban population close by).

Good to see the Spurn Point Ultras represented.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

If we we were' in the top flight like Ipswich were, have no doubt that Barton, Barrow Brigg, Louth, Scunthorpe (!) Market Rasen Immingham and everyman and his dog would be GTFC strongholds. Just the small matter of getting there.

Ipswich averaged over 20k in the third tier last season. Even at the top end of the top tier in the thirties we didn't come close to that. I was just pointing out they were a bad comparable to make. Don't deny we can grow with success, but the Suffolk population figure is about 750k..

7,214 is a very credible opening day attendance, I expect the Imps to be about the same v Wycombe tbh.

Might be from the same source, but following on from Poojah's map is this, little bit outdated but I don't imagine much change (especially as it looks at tiers 1 to 8 ) - https://automaticknowledge.org/voronoi-1to8/#8/53.392/-2.208

More telling is this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_MzPguGiygqgqb54yHwpc1lYHe-g0Xzoy89D5WmoPmw/edit#gid=790781456
Which gives you the population within each polygon on the map. Now obviously there are some discrepancies, as have been pointed out. For example it's not likely we're attracting a fanbase from Withernsea just because we're closer to them as the crow flies, vice-versa with losing fans from Immingham to Hull.

That gives us just under 275,000 as a polygon population, which isn't too far off what I reckon we've got reach of.

Using this site - https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm gives the following, based on what I'm drawing out as places I think we've got or had reach previously, that's over 300,000 to go at.

Of course some will argue that my map is too close to other teams, places like Market Rasen and Wragby are too close to Lincoln and Brigg is too close to Scunny.  But to my memory, these aren't Lincoln or Scunthorpe supporting places, we've traditionally always had decent followings from those areas, right throughout the East side of Lincolnshire down to the Skeggy way on.

Even if you really scale that back and discount the likes of Wragby, accepting that they're lost to Lincoln forever, there's a huge catchment to go at.  Most importantly though it's a huge catchment with little alternative.  Anything east of Market Rasen is closer (in terms of time to travel to)to Blundell Park than any other professional club in the area.  Not many other clubs are in this position, with a lack of clubs stealing fans from your relative doorstep.

Even if you strip it back to the 170,000 odd residents of North East Lincs, it's an hour to the next football ground.  One is in the league above us and the other is two above.  I think culturally it's a hard sell to anyone to go and support Lincoln or Hull when you're a NEL native.

It's an enviable position with a hell of a lot of untapped potential there.  Our obstacle towards getting bigger gates and bigger support shouldn't be our location or population, if anything that's our advantage.  Football has changed beyond belief in the last 20 years. Unfortunately at the point when the game has become more and more popular, we've suffered a sustained period of decline.  Had football held such a lofty position 25-30 years ago do we really think we would only have pulled 5/6000 gates in the second tier?  Not a chance.

When success comes our way, (I mean real success, not getting back in the league) our gates could absolutely skyrocket.  If, big if, we can accommodate them.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Might be from the same source, but following on from Poojah's map is this, little bit outdated but I don't imagine much change (especially as it looks at tiers 1 to 8 ) - https://automaticknowledge.org/voronoi-1to8/#8/53.392/-2.208

More telling is this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_MzPguGiygqgqb54yHwpc1lYHe-g0Xzoy89D5WmoPmw/edit#gid=790781456
Which gives you the population within each polygon on the map.  Now obviously there are some discrepancies, as have been pointed out.  For example it's not likely we're attracting a fanbase from Withernsea just because we're closer to them as the crow flies, vice-versa with losing fans from Immingham to Hull.

That gives us just under 275,000 as a polygon population, which isn't too far off what I reckon we've got reach of.

Using this site - https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm gives the following, based on what I'm drawing out as places I think we've got or had reach previously, that's over 300,000 to go at.

Of course some will argue that my map is too close to other teams, places like Market Rasen and Wragby are too close to Lincoln and Brigg is too close to Scunny.  But to my memory, these aren't Lincoln or Scunthorpe supporting places, we've traditionally always had decent followings from those areas, right throughout the East side of Lincolnshire down to the Skeggy way on.

Even if you really scale that back and discount the likes of Wragby, accepting that they're lost to Lincoln forever, there's a huge catchment to go at.  Most importantly though it's a huge catchment with little alternative.  Anything east of Market Rasen is closer (in terms of time to travel to)to Blundell Park than any other professional club in the area.  Not many other clubs are in this position, with a lack of clubs stealing fans from your relative doorstep.

Even if you strip it back to the 170,000 odd residents of North East Lincs, it's an hour to the next football ground.  One is in the league above us and the other is two above.  I think culturally it's a hard sell to anyone to go and support Lincoln or Hull when you're a NEL native.

It's an enviable position with a hell of a lot of untapped potential there.  Our obstacle towards getting bigger gates and bigger support shouldn't be our location or population, if anything that's our advantage.  Football has changed beyond belief in the last 20 years. Unfortunately at the point when the game has become more and more popular, we've suffered a sustained period of decline.  Had football held such a lofty position 25-30 years ago do we really think we would only have pulled 5/6000 gates in the second tier?  Not a chance.

When success comes our way, (I mean real success, not getting back in the league) our gates could absolutely skyrocket.  If, big if, we can accommodate them.

Great bit of analysis. History is really important with football. Teams like Blackburn and Burnley punch way above polygon population weight. We have to bear in mind that Lincoln have as long a history as us, although without ever being top flight. They have a Uni and growing population. If they continue to do well on the pitch and develop Sincil or get a new ground they will pull in young fans from the fringes of our catchment whereas Scunny never really could. But facilities count massively. Walking round for the ticket office last night you can see even the big stand at Mansfield offers far more than we can in the cramped Findus.

I wasn’t going to add any more to this thread but it’s funny what you hear when you’re in different company. Apparently there is a potential development in the pipeline, I was told where and, in theory, it makes sense. I’m not going to say any more other than that. 🤞

Going back a few decades the Findus stand car park was a bus park with supporters' buses coming in far and wide. I know 2 came from Brigg, collecting along the way. Pre Humber Bridge I believe some from Barton, Louth, Skegness and some from the Lincoln direction. It's a long time ago but that park was full of buses so I'd say getting on for 20-ish buses.

I know most have cars these days which are convenient, but it's something the club could look at. Bus, Match Ticket and a pint for say under £40! Just a thought.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Might be from the same source, but following on from Poojah's map is this, little bit outdated but I don't imagine much change (especially as it looks at tiers 1 to 8 ) - https://automaticknowledge.org/voronoi-1to8/#8/53.392/-2.208

More telling is this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_MzPguGiygqgqb54yHwpc1lYHe-g0Xzoy89D5WmoPmw/edit#gid=790781456
Which gives you the population within each polygon on the map.  Now obviously there are some discrepancies, as have been pointed out.  For example it's not likely we're attracting a fanbase from Withernsea just because we're closer to them as the crow flies, vice-versa with losing fans from Immingham to Hull.

That gives us just under 275,000 as a polygon population, which isn't too far off what I reckon we've got reach of.

Using this site - https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm gives the following, based on what I'm drawing out as places I think we've got or had reach previously, that's over 300,000 to go at.

Of course some will argue that my map is too close to other teams, places like Market Rasen and Wragby are too close to Lincoln and Brigg is too close to Scunny.  But to my memory, these aren't Lincoln or Scunthorpe supporting places, we've traditionally always had decent followings from those areas, right throughout the East side of Lincolnshire down to the Skeggy way on.

Even if you really scale that back and discount the likes of Wragby, accepting that they're lost to Lincoln forever, there's a huge catchment to go at.  Most importantly though it's a huge catchment with little alternative.  Anything east of Market Rasen is closer (in terms of time to travel to)to Blundell Park than any other professional club in the area.  Not many other clubs are in this position, with a lack of clubs stealing fans from your relative doorstep.

Even if you strip it back to the 170,000 odd residents of North East Lincs, it's an hour to the next football ground.  One is in the league above us and the other is two above.  I think culturally it's a hard sell to anyone to go and support Lincoln or Hull when you're a NEL native.

It's an enviable position with a hell of a lot of untapped potential there.  Our obstacle towards getting bigger gates and bigger support shouldn't be our location or population, if anything that's our advantage.  Football has changed beyond belief in the last 20 years. Unfortunately at the point when the game has become more and more popular, we've suffered a sustained period of decline.  Had football held such a lofty position 25-30 years ago do we really think we would only have pulled 5/6000 gates in the second tier?  Not a chance.

When success comes our way, (I mean real success, not getting back in the league) our gates could absolutely skyrocket.  If, big if, we can accommodate them.

I knew people and some local businesses that bought season tickets for Hull when they was in the Prem.
I’m pretty sure if we was ever to get there we’d easily be able to sell 15000 season tickets

Quoted from grimps

I knew people and some local businesses that bought season tickets for Hull when they was in the Prem.
I’m pretty sure if we was ever to get there we’d easily be able to sell 15000 season tickets

Yeah I know of a couple that travelled from grimsby to watch Hull when they was in the prem. The premiership is such a titanic juggernaut, loads of blokes who subscribe to sky or watch a premiership game on the television etc at weekends would be in the stands instead If we were in there, albeit only so long as we stayed up. Definitely be 15k gates if we could fit them in, all irrelevant tho as we aren't in the prem nor ever likely to be!

Quoted from toontown

Yeah I know of a couple that travelled from grimsby to watch Hull when they was in the prem. The premiership is such a titanic juggernaut, loads of blokes who subscribe to sky or watch a premiership game on the television etc at weekends would be in the stands instead If we were in there, albeit only so long as we stayed up. Definitely be 15k gates if we could fit them in, all irrelevant tho as we aren't in the prem nor ever likely to be!

You’re right, but Bournemouth fans probably thought that in ‘98. Never stop dreaming….

Quoted from DB

Going back a few decades the Findus stand car park was a bus park with supporters' buses coming in far and wide. I know 2 came from Brigg, collecting along the way. Pre Humber Bridge I believe some from Barton, Louth, Skegness and some from the Lincoln direction. It's a long time ago but that park was full of buses so I'd say getting on for 20-ish buses.

I know most have cars these days which are convenient, but it's something the club could look at. Bus, Match Ticket and a pint for say under £40! Just a thought.

Not the worst idea I've ever heard.

I guess the only barrier to that is we simply don't have the tickets available to sell as part of those packages now. But in a brave new world I would to see us flexing our reach back into Lincolnshire.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Great bit of analysis. History is really important with football. Teams like Blackburn and Burnley punch way above polygon population weight. We have to bear in mind that Lincoln have as long a history as us, although without ever being top flight. They have a Uni and growing population. If they continue to do well on the pitch and develop Sincil or get a new ground they will pull in young fans from the fringes of our catchment whereas Scunny never really could. But facilities count massively. Walking round for the ticket office last night you can see even the big stand at Mansfield offers far more than we can in the cramped Findus.

I live Lincoln way on and there's a definite difference between the sense of tribalism in the two places. Especially in recent years there's very much a pride thing attached to Grimsby and GTFC, perhaps more so on the recent element when it comes to the football club.

It might well be just be based on the sample I see and speak to, but it feels with Lincoln it's more of a nice thing to do. Follow the local team because they're doing well. Not that sense of they're my team, my club, it's in my blood.

The Uni is literally driving forward the city. It's getting bigger, better and attracting more funds and students every single year. But how many stay? Not many.

Lincoln isn't that different to Grimsby in that it has a brain drain post 18. There isn't huge industries and careers to go at. It's more accessible but it's not in a position yet to keep hold of people post-University.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I wasn’t going to add any more to this thread but it’s funny what you hear when you’re in different company. Apparently there is a potential development in the pipeline, I was told where and, in theory, it makes sense. I’m not going to say any more other than that. 🤞

Oh, come on. Your associates don't know your Fishy moniker, do they?

There are, or were, four possibilities for a new stadium location: Freemo, old fish dock, Grimsby West or Peaks Parkway. Which three of those is it not likely to be?

Or are you one of those people who would like the club to stay at Blundell Park?

Quoted from White_shorts

Oh, come on. Your associates don't know your Fishy moniker, do they?

There are, or were, four possibilities for a new stadium location: Freemo, old fish dock, Grimsby West or Peaks Parkway. Which three of those is it not likely to be?

Or are you one of those people who would like the club to stay at Blundell Park?

None of those…

Quoted from aldi_01

None of those…

So what's the answer?

Quoted from aldi_01

None of those…

You’re right. None of those. And, no, I don’t want us to stay at BP.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

You’re right. None of those. And, no, I don’t want us to stay at BP.

So what's the answer?

Quoted from DB

So what's the answer?

Think about sites on the periphery of the town that have become redundant and have good motorway access.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Think about sites on the periphery of the town that have become redundant and have good motorway access.

Thinking about that and what is in "Grimsby" as opposed to NELC. it points down to the docks where the ABP land is used to store cars, sometimes. Both the A46 and A16 do not meet your comments. Nothing redundant on the A46 and the allotments are still in use of the A16.

So is this the answer?

Quoted from Mappers

There is that and about 10 teams being able to clear 3k away tickets if we getthere , let's hope they have a plan in place because it becomes a bit more important when you are missing out on about 50k people through the gate (££££) ballpark through a season because of a lack of capacity .

There are less than 2,000 seats behind each goal at BP. Unless Stockwood and Pettit have secretly bought 30 houses on Blundell Avenue and Neville Street, there is no way to significantly increase the Pontoon and Osmond capacity.

Quoted from lukeo

I'd take top end of league 2 or yoyo from 1 to 2. I don't expect us to be promoted to league 1 and not then have a relegation scrap. It's unrealistic

It's better to have a relegation scrap in L1 than L2.

I can only assume you are a relative youngster with no experience of big city teams regularly visiting BP. Do you not envy Rotherham at the moment? They have mouth-watering fixtures against Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland, West Brom, Stoke etc.

Quoted from Mappers

I don't think it would be impossible to compete with half of League 1 - Fleetwood, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Wycombe, Leyton Orient, Burton and Stevenage would not be light years away from us in terms of budgets & attendances.

One would expect those teams to be replaced in L1 eventually by the likes of Swindon, Tranmere, Bradford, Doncaster, Wrexham and Notts County. Maybe Southend and Oldham.

Quoted from White_shorts

One would expect those teams to be replaced in L1 eventually by the likes of Swindon, Tranmere, Bradford, Doncaster, Wrexham and Notts County. Maybe Southend and Oldham.

It's never really worked like that though has it , mainly due to the more well supported clubs being mismanaged and smaller clubs one way or another over achieving . For every Burton or Cheltenham there is a Reading or Wigan . I can't see that changing anytime soon tbh.

Quoted from White_shorts

Oh, come on. Your associates don't know your Fishy moniker, do they?

There are, or were, four possibilities for a new stadium location: Freemo, old fish dock, Grimsby West or Peaks Parkway. Which three of those is it not likely to be?

Or are you one of those people who would like the club to stay at Blundell Park?

feck me you are 1 boring fecker

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Think about sites on the periphery of the town that have become redundant and have good motorway access.

Novartis?

Why does any stadium need "good motorways access" for God's sake?

I have never ever been to any stadium thinking now this better have good motorway access or I'm not going to the game and support my team.

Stadia in the UK are in all sorts of weird and wonderful locations.

Quoted from White_shorts

One would expect those teams to be replaced in L1 eventually by the likes of Swindon, Tranmere, Bradford, Doncaster, Wrexham and Notts County. Maybe Southend and Oldham.

That post is based on what, exactly? And Southend and Oldham?!? Yeah, right.

Quoted from White_shorts

One would expect those teams to be replaced in L1 eventually by the likes of Swindon, Tranmere, Bradford, Doncaster, Wrexham and Notts County. Maybe Southend and Oldham.

The minute you added southend to this list your point became invalid, they’ll be lucky to be a club by Christmas…

As for an edge/out of town stadium, they’re dreadful and offer a woeful football experience, and given the owners are trying to build a community club, sticking a stadium on the edge of town suggests the opposite.

Either way, this thread was about attendance and once again, it was decent, especially after relatively excrement home form last year…

This location of stadium thing....
I can't imagine many Town fans looking past Notts and Bradford for best awaydays and they're both City Centre grounds.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

This location of stadium thing....
I can't imagine many Town fans looking past Notts and Bradford for best awaydays and they're both City Centre grounds.

Forget the opposition and just think about the day, pre game and then getting to the ground, all the good ones are ‘in town’ stadiums…

Bradford
County
Wrexham
Lincoln
Forest
Mansfield
Almost all premier league away days
Harrogate
Stockport
Exeter

To name a few in our league and a couple of others…

Then think of your dreadful away day experiences…

Bolton
Donnie
Colchester
Darlo (when it existed)
Franchise scum
Brighton (I know they’ve tried but it was a bit excrement)
Derby

Quoted from aldi_01

Forget the opposition and just think about the day, pre game and then getting to the ground, all the good ones are ‘in town’ stadiums…

Bradford
County
Wrexham
Lincoln
Forest
Mansfield
Almost all premier league away days
Harrogate
Stockport
Exeter

To name a few in our league and a couple of others…

Then think of your dreadful away day experiences…

Bolton
Donnie
Colchester
Darlo (when it existed)
Franchise scum
Brighton (I know they’ve tried but it was a bit excrement)
Derby

Brighton is a strange one. Absolutely bizarre place to have the stadium but it looks amazing coming in over the hill on the bus. Fair play to the club for having the P&R system up. Although the stadium is in an awful location there's still a great weekend to be had

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Why does any stadium need "good motorways access" for God's sake?

I have never ever been to any stadium thinking now this better have good motorway access or I'm not going to the game and support my team.

Stadia in the UK are in all sorts of weird and wonderful locations.

I didn’t say it needs good motorway access, I said that the site identified to me has good motorway access. There may be a plan to have the stadium and training ground in the same location, I wasn’t told that just that a site has been mentioned for a stadium development.

Quoted from aldi_01

Forget the opposition and just think about the day, pre game and then getting to the ground, all the good ones are ‘in town’ stadiums…

Bradford
County
Wrexham
Lincoln
Forest
Mansfield
Almost all premier league away days
Harrogate
Stockport
Exeter

To name a few in our league and a couple of others…

Then think of your dreadful away day experiences…

Bolton
Donnie
Colchester
Darlo (when it existed)
Franchise scum
Brighton (I know they’ve tried but it was a bit excrement)
Derby

It’s funny you mention Bolton because my first visit there sticks in the memory. It was our first away game of the 98/99 season, fresh on the back of the Wembley double and our new, club record striker was about to make his debut. Now, it might not be so cutting edge today, but 25 years ago the Reebok Stadium was like something from another planet. It was an absolute world away from any other ground I’d been to in terms of facilities and design. It was an exciting time to be a young Town fan.

However, I was only 13 years old and was yet to develop my raging thirst for booze that now grips me on match days (and most mornings) - a choice of McDonalds or KFC on the adjacent retail park seemed like options aplenty at the time.

Nowadays, if I’ve been successful in securing a pass from the wife to make an away day, or I’ve gone town the forgiveness rather than permission route, I want to make a day of it. Ideally, that means getting there by train and having a few beers and a bite to eat along the way. I don’t mind a taxi ride, provided there’s sufficient stuff near the station to keep me entertained. Tranmere might not be top of the great away days list, but it’s easy enough to get the train to Line Street, sink a few pints in Liverpool and then get an Uber through the tunnel and over to Birkenhead. They’ve just built a decent looking fan zone there too.

The problem with grounds like Bolton, and MK Dons, Colchester et al is that there isn’t sufficient redeeming features in the towns themselves to make a cab ride out to their grounds in the middle of nowhere worthwhile, and there’s sod all there once you get there. There’s no saving Milton Keynes, the football club is a mere reflection of the town itself - modern, plastic and soulless; but there’s no doubt that the likes of Bolton, Colchester, Shrewsbury, Derby and so on would have been infinitely better away days had the grounds been build centrally. The towns don’t have to be amazing; Hartlepool is a deceptively good away day despite not being somewhere you’d want to live; having a stadium in walking distance of a train station and 4 or 5 half-decent pubs makes a world of difference.

I think the conversation is little more than a hypothetical question at the minute, but should it one day crystallise into something more, any new stadium for GTFC absolutely has to be at the heart of the town and a catalyst for regeneration. It would certainly make more sense that chucking millions into a retail project that is doomed to fail.

I’d agree that the town has to have something about it but I think that’s why places like Hartlepool remain decent away days; stadium might not be the best but easy to get to and plenty of options drinking, eating and otherwise, as well as central access.

As you say, Bolton looks futuristic and at the time was but having visited several times now, the footballing experience I guess is dreadful.

I know people obsess over playing so called bigger teams and wanting to be in fancy stadia but the ground is pretty irrelevant so long as you have a decent day all round. We’ve got notts county tomorrow, no doubt it’ll be doubled up seats and over the top policing but in truth, whether it was a half decent stand or the ramshackle away end at Macclesfield, the experience and day will be better than say Donnie or Bolton,

I see Alexander Retail Park has recently been bought by a new management/development company. Would be a shame if the whole thing was to mysteriously go up in flames, like that crooked pub near Birmingham, leaving a nice big parcel of town centre land just off the a180.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I didn’t say it needs good motorway access, I said that the site identified to me has good motorway access. There may be a plan to have the stadium and training ground in the same location, I wasn’t told that just that a site has been mentioned for a stadium development.

If it's got good motorway access, it's going to be miles away from me. I live in Cleethorpes, a couple of miles from the ground and can easily walk there. When the Great Cotes site was the plan, I couldn't help but think that my 30 minute walk would become a 30 minute drive on a matchday. Anywhere near the motorway would be similar on a matchday with thousands trying to get to the game.

I liked the idea of a Freeman Street site if it was accompanied by a major redevelopment, but it wasn't really realistic, IMO. One major road in and out of that end of town and I can only imagine how bad the traffic would be for busy matches. If the new site somewhere near the docks or the Humber bank, it would be tricky for a lot of fans to get to. There will be have to be some serious planning around transportation/parking if we do ever move.

It won't be retail.  That ship has sailed, sunk and now lies at the bottom of the sea.

But for the life of me I can't figure out any feasible way we get a new stadium without a significant enabling development to support/fund it.

Happy to be corrected but unless it's leisure or housing, there won't be any other enabling developments that are even pipe dreams for us.  Housing developments genuinely reach out from the centre.  Waltham will soon become one with New Waltham which before long will join Holten-Le-Clay, which in turn will be at one with Tetney...before we know it Louth will be part of the wider borough.  Centrally I can't think of many brown field sites that would take housing and a stadium.

Leisure wise I think there's greater scope. Few areas that could, in theory, be redeveloped with entertainment facilities and a ground.   Won't happen but Grimsby Town Centre would have been an opportunity.  The high street is dead, none more so than Victoria/Bethlehem Street.  Freshney Place is getting turned into a cinema and I think they're trying to keep some retail units, albeit moving them to accommodate the cinema.  Would that area take a football ground and a cinema...I dunno.  But there's a lot around there that's absolute dead. Garth Lane, the 'bus station', large parts of Cartergate.   A bit of ambition and it could be something special, very central, very much within the community, as good transport links as you're going to get in NEL, not too far off the motorway, potentially loads of parking options, definitely ticks a huge regeneration box too.   Problem is this area lacks ambition and of course the finances to do so.  But I don't think it would matter if the latter were in place, the former is central to driving anything forward.

Quoted from ska face

I see Alexander Retail Park has recently been bought by a new management/development company. Would be a shame if the whole thing was to mysteriously go up in flames, like that crooked pub near Birmingham, leaving a nice big parcel of town centre land just off the a180.

I don't reckon that would be a big enough site, to be honest. You could certainly fit a reasonably-sized ground in there, but there would be little room for any other sort of facilities or parking. Everywhere is built up with little free space in this town. It's why the out of town option will always be the easiest.

The whole point with a town centre location is that you don’t need loads of parking. Absolute waste of money paying for massive car parks that don’t generate any income outside of a couple of grand 23-times a year.

What about Brighton, no where near a main road, limited parking, so free train the best option. Makes me think what sort of attendance they would get at the bottom of the Championship, or lower.

The best stadiums are the ones in city/town centers or within easy walking distance, with a rail station close.

I’ve been in a couple of 22,000 plus attendances at BP, and numerous 15k plus. I have also been in Town away followings above 20k. As recently as 2022 around 13kof us went to the London Stadium. I realise these are mostly one off special matches, but the point is that, if we do well enough to climb up the leagues then we will have the potential to far outstrip the current capacity of BP.

The new owners are intelligent forward thinking people so I have no doubt they must be considering options because BP capacity is a constraining factor on future growth.

Quoted from ska face

The whole point with a town centre location is that you don’t need loads of parking. Absolute waste of money paying for massive car parks that don’t generate any income outside of a couple of grand 23-times a year.

Grimsby Town centre is 4 miles from my house. Without somewhere to park, I'm going to struggle to get to games, unless some really, really good transport links are sorted out. I have little faith that these would be forthcoming or usable and expect I would probably need to drive to games. It would take a lot of planning to sorting out bus services to the game, that's for sure.

Sorry, not being funny but that’s indicative of the car-centred way of thinking that’s plagued towns and cities for the past half-century. I’m sure it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to put on an extra bus route or two, a couple of times a month, running to the town’s main bus exchange at the Riverhead.

So where is this proposed new site?

Quoted from Hagrid

So where is this proposed new site?

Humberston Ave, near New Waltham end, an unknown seller has donated the land to the club…

Quoted from ska face

I see Alexander Retail Park has recently been bought by a new management/development company. Would be a shame if the whole thing was to mysteriously go up in flames, like that crooked pub near Birmingham, leaving a nice big parcel of town centre land just off the a180.

Can add this to the scope of what I'm talking about in regenerating the whole town centre. From Freshney Place to Alexander Retail Park there is what exactly, a Sainsburys and little else. It also straddles a river. You go to other towns and they absolutely cream themselves over development near water, even the tiniest little bits of it.

We've got loads of it and do intercourse all with it.

Quoted from ska face

Sorry, not being funny but that’s indicative of the car-centred way of thinking that’s plagued towns and cities for the past half-century. I’m sure it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to put on an extra bus route or two, a couple of times a month, running to the town’s main bus exchange at the Riverhead.

Additional bus services should be pretty much direct to the ground. We'd need dozens of them operating, mostly arriving within a limited window of time and they'd need to be ready to depart soon after the game. Very tricky given that the road links in the town are pretty busy most of the time in any case.

I've not been on the bus in N.E. Lincs for some years, but I have memories of it taking an absolute flipping age to get into town from Cleethorpes back then. I have less faith than you in the ability of the council/bus companies to sort out a proper service for matchdays.

Ah well, it's a long way down the road and we don't even know if a new ground would be feasible for decades. We'll see how the landscape lies then.

Quoted from Grantham_Mariner

What about Brighton, no where near a main road, limited parking, so free train the best option. Makes me think what sort of attendance they would get at the bottom of the Championship, or lower.

The best stadiums are the ones in city/town centers or within easy walking distance, with a rail station close.

Did you go to the wrong ground, Brighton's stadium is right next to the A27, has a large car park on site with another a 10 minute walk away and is no where near the town centre.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Did you go to the wrong ground, Brighton's stadium is right next to the A27, has a large car park on site with another a 10 minute walk away and is no where near the town centre.

You mean the moderately sized car park that they blocked off and didn’t allow anyone to use?

Quoted from Heisenberg

You mean the moderately sized car park that they blocked off and didn’t allow anyone to use?

Which car park are you on about, the large one at the ground or the smaller one that our car was parked in.

Quoted from Maringer

Additional bus services should be pretty much direct to the ground. We'd need dozens of them operating, mostly arriving within a limited window of time and they'd need to be ready to depart soon after the game. Very tricky given that the road links in the town are pretty busy most of the time in any case.

I've not been on the bus in N.E. Lincs for some years, but I have memories of it taking an absolute flipping age to get into town from Cleethorpes back then. I have less faith than you in the ability of the council/bus companies to sort out a proper service for matchdays.

Ah well, it's a long way down the road and we don't even know if a new ground would be feasible for decades. We'll see how the landscape lies then.

The nature of the population in NELC would suggest that more people would live within a few miles (or walking distance) or the Town Centre than Blundell Park.

This shows everything within a 1.5mile radius of Grimsby Town Centre and Blundell Park respectively.  If, again and as always, it's hypothetical, a ground in the centre of town would need less local people using a car, bus, train etc.

From a central point, there's already infrastructure in place to get to Scartho, The Willows, Humberston, parts of Cleethorpes etc.  Yes it would need expanding on and developing.  But that should be a relatively easy fix.

Edit:  On a match day the only traffic on the roads is match day traffic.  There's no traffic in and around retail areas anymore.  You get the odd bizarre tailback in the Cleethorpes Tesco every now and then, but that's it.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Looks like some empty land near the crematorium...

Quoted from LH

Novartis?

✔️

I've always wondered how popular the golf courses behind the Auditorium and Humber Royal are. Probably completely obvious why both of those pieces of land are non-starters and that's why I've never heard them mentioned. The land behind the Auditorium would seems to tick a lot of boxes for me, if it was ever available

Good ticket sales tonight around 6300 home tickets sold .

Quoted from immariner

I've always wondered how popular the golf courses behind the Auditorium and Humber Royal are. Probably completely obvious why both of those pieces of land are non-starters and that's why I've never heard them mentioned. The land behind the Auditorium would seems to tick a lot of boxes for me, if it was ever available

Grimsby Golf course is too hilly - the kick golf behind auditorium is on an old rubbish tip - don't know if suitable for building

Quoted from golfer

Grimsby Golf course is too hilly - the kick golf behind auditorium is on an old rubbish tip - don't know if suitable for building

Grimsby golf club is a members owned golf club why would they want to sell the site to the football club even it it was suitable?

Quoted from Mappers

Good ticket sales tonight around 6300 home tickets sold .

Expecting an attendance figure of around 5700 then

Quoted from HerveJosse

Expecting an attendance figure of around 5700 then

Wouldn't suprise me... not even half the 2 blocks in the osmond are sold yet. A shame because nights like this will support the owners views that extra seating isn't needed at the moment.
(This is not a dig at them. Just an observation)

Quoted from HerveJosse

Grimsby golf club is a members owned golf club why would they want to sell the site to the football club even it it was suitable?

Because they are running out of members ? I believe they have sold off the hole fronting Great Coates Rd for housing already ....

Quoted from lukeo

Wouldn't suprise me... not even half the 2 blocks in the osmond are sold yet. A shame because nights like this will support the owners views that extra seating isn't needed at the moment.
(This is not a dig at them. Just an observation)

Our evening game attendances are poor though compared to 50 years ago when they were better than Saturday games. Too many exiles don’t make the journey. They won’t base any judgement on a night game against the worst supported club in the EFL…

However, even though the Osmond blocks are not even half full it does give the option for people to make a late decision to go and sit together. Rest of the ground is down to singles and RV.

Until people get last seasons home performances out their heads I don't see demand changing any time soon. The way we play works ok away but it a hard watch at home, I hope I'm wrong UTM

Quoted from moosey_club

Because they are running out of members ? I believe they have sold off the hole fronting Great Coates Rd for housing already ....

How much do holes cost ?

Quoted from golfer

How much do holes cost ?

£10 down Riby St or £10,000 at the Ritz, so I've been told.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Expecting an attendance figure of around 5700 then

5968 with 90 away, that means that 500 town fans didn't turn up given someone posted that 6300 home tickets had been sold.

I don't get it

For VAT purposes which figure is used?

Quoted from forza ivano

5968 with 90 away, that means that 500 town fans didn't turn up given someone posted that 6300 home tickets had been sold.

I don't get it

6323 seats were sold at 7pm on the ticketing system (yes i'm sad I counted ) , I was interested in the disparity between the seats sold and actual bums on seats - so going on that roughly 500 did not turn up (which is maybe around the regular amount of ST non atendees ?) I felt like it was more for a lot of games last season .

Quoted from forza ivano

5968 with 90 away, that means that 500 town fans didn't turn up given someone posted that 6300 home tickets had been sold.

I don't get it

I think a few STH. don't make mid week games Forza.

Holidays and exiles can account for 500 empty seats.

I know a couple of people who were absent away on holiday.

Loads of missing sth in the Upper and they missed arguably the best home performance in 12 months.Well done Town enjoyed that.UTM

I suppose - if you play for Salford - on the one hand you have the high profile ex Manchester United players ruling - but only 90 fans come to watch - it must be confusing and underwhelming.

Quoted from Gaffer58

For VAT purposes which figure is used?

2300

5300sh season tickets sold, 500 don't turn up - I think midweek it's expected that there's about a 10% attrition rate, especially at this time of year with people on holiday etc.

Midweek games aren't what should be used as a measuring stick. I know a fair few exiles with ST's who find midweek games a struggle. I'm an hour away and for every midweek game I think 'can I really be arsed?'. Any further than that and I think I would seriously consider my sanity.

Quoted from diehardmariner

5300sh season tickets sold, 500 don't turn up - I think midweek it's expected that there's about a 10% attrition rate, especially at this time of year with people on holiday etc.

Midweek games aren't what should be used as a measuring stick. I know a fair few exiles with ST's who find midweek games a struggle. I'm an hour away and for every midweek game I think 'can I really be arsed?'. Any further than that and I think I would seriously consider my sanity.

Was 5550 season tickets in the end bud .

Fair enough, I'll round it down to 9% no-shows then.

The fact is the amount of seats sold even on a Tuesday night is more than the 'natural' home capacity .

Quoted from Mappers

The fact is the amount of seats sold even on a Tuesday night is more than the 'natural' home capacity .

That's the way I look at it. 6000 crowds used to be the exception as little as 2 seasons ago, now we are getting that on a Tues night against Salford.

We have more fans buying season tickets, even if they know they can't make every game, just so they are assured of a seat when they want one. That didn't used to happen because the demand wasn't there and they could come and go as they pleased.

There's bound to be more no shows now, but if they releasing their seats as the club have asked, then there will be good seats available for most games.

Quoted from chaos33

That post is based on what, exactly? And Southend and Oldham?!? Yeah, right.

Based on ground capacity and potential gates. According to Wikipedia, Swindon 15.7k, Tranmere 16.7k, Bradford 25k, Doncaster 15k, Wrexham 10.7k increasing to over 15k, Notts County 19.5k.

Quoted from aldi_01

The minute you added Southend to this list your point became invalid, they’ll be lucky to be a club by Christmas…

I did say maybe Southend. Even if the Shrimpers do go bust, it doesn't mean the other clubs won't get promoted to League One.

£275,000 is a week's wages for some Premier League players. You'd think one of them might like to help out, instead of buying another Lamborghini.

Quoted from White_shorts

I did say maybe Southend. Even if the Shrimpers do go bust, it doesn't mean the other clubs won't get promoted to League One.

£275,000 is a week's wages for some Premier League players. You'd think one of them might like to help out, instead of buying another Lamborghini.

Most PL players (or owners more pertinently) don’t even know clubs like Southend exist.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Novartis
✔️

Novartis would be quite a trek for people without cars. Maybe the club could provide shuttle buses, but they would likely get caught up in traffic congestion on Moody Lane.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Grimsby/@53.5833055,-0.1151385,1252m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x47d62825741ebd27:0x5df6b9d25ad12bf8!8m2!3d53.567471!4d-0.080784!16zL20vMDFsNXJ6?entry=ttu

Quoted from moosey_club

Because Grimsby Golf Club is running out of members ? I believe they have sold off the hole fronting Great Coates Rd for housing already ....

It didn't occur to me that the golf club might be struggling financially. It would certainly be a big enough site. You could fit a stadium, car park and training ground there.

It's within walking distance of the Willows, Wybers, Laceby Acres, Grange, Yarborough. On a bus route and not far from the A180.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5595615,-0.1256074,1253m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

Quoted from Poojah

The problem with grounds like Bolton, and MK Dons, Colchester et al is that there isn’t sufficient redeeming features in the towns themselves to make a cab ride out to their grounds in the middle of nowhere worthwhile. There’s no doubt that the likes of Shrewsbury, Derby and so on would have been infinitely better away days had the grounds been build centrally.

Any new stadium for GTFC absolutely has to be at the heart of the town and a catalyst for regeneration.

Has it not occurred to you that there might be parents with young children who enjoy stadia like Colchester or Shrewsbury, precisely because they don't get disturbed by boozed-up n0bheads? (I'm not saying you're a n0bhead).

Please suggest a realistic location for a new stadium in the heart of town. Freemo appears not to be happening.

Quoted from aldi_01

As for an edge/out of town stadium, they’re dreadful and offer a woeful football experience, and given the owners are trying to build a community club, sticking a stadium on the edge of town suggests the opposite.

Please clarify: are you suggesting Jason and Andrew are looking at Novartis only for a training ground? If so, where else could a new stadium go?

I assume you were joking about Humberston Avenue.

Quoted from diehardmariner

It won't be retail. That ship has sailed, sunk and now lies at the bottom of the sea.

But for the life of me I can't figure out any feasible way we get a new stadium without a significant enabling development to support/fund it.

Happy to be corrected but unless it's leisure or housing, there won't be any other enabling developments that are even pipe dreams for us.

I have mentioned Grimsby West several times in the past.

There are probably quite a few supporters in Cleethorpes who would prefer Peaks Parkway, but there would still be traffic congestion even though it's a more central location. Most people would use their cars in winter, rather than walk or cycle.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Can add this to the scope of what I'm talking about in regenerating the whole town centre. From Freshney Place to Alexander Retail Park there is what exactly, a Sainsburys and little else. It also straddles a river. You go to other towns and they absolutely cream themselves over development near water, even the tiniest little bits of it.

We've got loads of it and do intercourse all with it.

'We' don't have the waterfront land. It presumably belongs to Sainsbury's. How likely is it they would agree to close the store?

Quoted from White_shorts

'We' don't have the waterfront land. It presumably belongs to Sainsbury's. How likely is it they would agree to close the store?

Well, they closed Argos.

Quoted from White_shorts

Has it not occurred to you that there might be parents with young children who enjoy stadia like Colchester or Shrewsbury, precisely because they don't get disturbed by boozed-up n0bheads? (I'm not saying you're a n0bhead).

Please suggest a realistic location for a new stadium in the heart of town. Freemo appears not to be happening.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy a match day beer as much as the next man, if not a little bit more, but the problem with out of town grounds isn’t just about an absence of pubs - it’s the absence of anything likely to complement a day at the football. Good public transport links, restaurants, hotels, etc.

The concept of building amenities out of town is bang out of fashion, and rightly so. Not withstanding the wider economic pressures which currently prevail, town and city centres should serve as the beating heart of their respective communities. Deviate from that, and that beating heart suffers. You only need to spend 5 minutes in Sheffield city centre to appreciate the effect that Meadowhall has had on it. The lack of investment there is stark given the size of the population.

There are residual benefits of building a stadium centrally too, such as the benefit to the surrounding independent businesses. There are sound reasons why central, brownfield sites are the preferred option for new, public developments - no one is making planning decisions based on the needs of “píssed up nobheads”.

As for a realistic location for a new stadium in the heart of town - there isn’t one. Not because there isn’t a suitable parcel of land, but because it’s currently undeliverable due to the huge finances involved. This has been covered on here, time and time again. If it was doable, I’m sure Freemo would be an excellent place to stick a new ground. But it isn’t. So it’s not.