Jason and Debbie on DN35

Only around 80 tickets left for tommorrow with 36 hours to go singles restricted view back row etc so of course we are turning people a way . Those asking for evidence of this are asking for the impossible . Just think where we would be if we had won our home league games .

But as devil's advocate, to my own argument nonetheless, we don't know if we're turning people away.

It could be that we're not getting anyone logging onto the ticketing site and see what's available, saying no thanks and not bothering because the seats are excrement.  

It could be that there's hundreds of unique visits to the ticketing site without buying a ticket, which could suggest that people are put off by the lack of options.  Or it could be people looking out of curiosity to see how many tickets are available, like I've just done and I'm guessing you've done too.  

On a game by game basis we need to understand what our capacity is going to be.  Our capacity can quite simply be defined as how many people we can fit in the ground/how many seats we can have occupied, not how many tickets we can sell.  At the minute I'm absolutely convinced we've no idea, not even close to knowing, how many people will be sat in the ground on a game-by-game basis.  Within that we've no idea how many seats could have been resold to willing buyers.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

But as devil's advocate, to my own argument nonetheless, we don't know if we're turning people away.

It could be that we're not getting anyone logging onto the ticketing site and see what's available, saying no thanks and not bothering because the seats are excrement.  

It could be that there's hundreds of unique visits to the ticketing site without buying a ticket, which could suggest that people are put off by the lack of options.  Or it could be people looking out of curiosity to see how many tickets are available, like I've just done and I'm guessing you've done too.  

On a game by game basis we need to understand what our capacity is going to be.  Our capacity can quite simply be defined as how many people we can fit in the ground/how many seats we can have occupied, not how many tickets we can sell.  At the minute I'm absolutely convinced we've no idea, not even close to knowing, how many people will be sat in the ground on a game-by-game basis.  Within that we've no idea how many seats could have been resold to willing buyers.  

It’s a lot simpler then that if there are no or only single and poor view seats available on sale we are turning people away . You can argue about how many anecdotely it’s a fair number.

Could anyone give me a link please to the podcast,  thank you.

Quoted from zorro_is_a_Mariner

Could anyone give me a link please to the podcast,  thank you.

https://dn35.podbean.com/

Quoted from HerveJosse

It’s a lot simpler then that if there are no or only single and poor view seats available on sale we are turning people away . You can argue about how many anecdotely it’s a fair number.

Agree - we will be turning people away, not many committed fans perhaps, but casual fans. The "part-timers" that the bloke in the Main Stand used to moan about years ago. "Where's all the part-timers gone" I remember him shouting, I think it was after the Wolves game - when the attendance went from 23k to 7k the next game. That was a one-off of course, but our crowds often used to fluctuate by several thousand from one game to another in the 50s and 2,000 even disregarding away fan numbers was common in the 70s. With a big capacity, pay on the day it was dead easy. My dad was a farmer, he'd often have to leave the decision to go to the last minute - rain at harvest time and he could go, a dry day and he couldn't, I was left praying for rain like England's batting of the time facing the West Indies attack...

We have a unique scenario for GTFC now. We've sold 5,861 STs (I think that was the number JS quoted) with a home capacity of 7,200 (as established by the Forest game) and a range from 400 - 800 are not turning up.

We have a large and loyal exile fan base - relatively one of the best in the EFL, perhaps even the best. Our away following average as a proportion of home fan average is consistently the best in League 2 at around 20% - I think Oldham have been similar in the past, but I doubt there are many, if any, clubs higher up that can match it. It looks like these exile fans have bought alot of season ticket on the basis that they thought, correctly it seems, that they wouldn't get decent seats for the games they wanted to go to. Exiles perhaps typically have better jobs and can afford to buy a ST and miss 20% -30% of the games.

1878 didn't know this was going to happen and it looks like they have been caught out by this. Pricing differential needs to change; the Upper needs to cost more and discount for child STs reduced. We need the extra capacity in the corners and ideally some safe standing so friends can stand together. Parent and child STs should be offered in specific blocks with the child seat automatically upgraded to an adult for Tuesday night games in term time - a nice little bonus in return for booking in those blocks. All this for next season of course. For now, we just need to incentivise the release of those unused ST seats - 700 on Saturday outside the holiday season - we have to assume that is going to be the norm so need to do better to get these released.

Quoted from HerveJosse

It’s a lot simpler then that if there are no or only single and poor view seats available on sale we are turning people away . You can argue about how many anecdotely it’s a fair number.

I agree with where you're going.  I'm on the same path as you.

But what I'm saying is that we're not physically turning people away, or not that I'm aware of anyway.  We're not at that point that we're saying 'not a seat left, sorry come back in two weeks and we'll see what we can do'.  Purely on a numbers basis we're going into games with some availability for seats.

1878 don't appear to be looking it at through the view that not all seats are equal.  A quick glance on the ticketing site shows you that there's only a few seats left for tomorrow.  It doesn't take much insight to see that the vast majority of those seats are of a crap view.  If you've been anywhere near those seats you'll realise and probably not bother.  I think I'm right in saying that we're in agreement that this is effectively turning people away, or perhaps giving them enough reason to turn away themselves.   The club stance seems to be that until we've sold every single ticket, demand doesn't meet capacity.

Having re-read a few bits I'm pleased to see the Trust are leading on a review of the restricted seats.  Hopefully they're largely taken out of the equation when we look at our capacity because they're simply not fit for purpose.  If we sell them then it should be as a last resort with a reduction of some sorts.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

Agree - we will be turning people away, not many committed fans perhaps, but casual fans. The "part-timers" that the bloke in the Main Stand used to moan about years ago. "Where's all the part-timers gone" I remember him shouting, I think it was after the Wolves game - when the attendance went from 23k to 7k the next game. That was a one-off of course, but our crowds often used to fluctuate by several thousand from one game to another in the 50s and 2,000 even disregarding away fan numbers was common in the 70s. With a big capacity, pay on the day it was dead easy. My dad was a farmer, he'd often have to leave the decision to go to the last minute - rain at harvest time and he could go, a dry day and he couldn't, I was left praying for rain like England's batting of the time facing the West Indies attack...

We have a unique scenario for GTFC now. We've sold 5,861 STs (I think that was the number JS quoted) with a home capacity of 7,200 (as established by the Forest game) and a range from 400 - 800 are not turning up.

We have a large and loyal exile fan base - relatively one of the best in the EFL, perhaps even the best. Our away following average as a proportion of home fan average is consistently the best in League 2 at around 20% - I think Oldham have been similar in the past, but I doubt there are many, if any, clubs higher up that can match it. It looks like these exile fans have bought alot of season ticket on the basis that they thought, correctly it seems, that they wouldn't get decent seats for the games they wanted to go to. Exiles perhaps typically have better jobs and can afford to buy a ST and miss 20% -30% of the games.

1878 didn't know this was going to happen and it looks like they have been caught out by this. Pricing differential needs to change; the Upper needs to cost more and discount for child STs reduced. We need the extra capacity in the corners and ideally some safe standing so friends can stand together. Parent and child STs should be offered in specific blocks with the child seat automatically upgraded to an adult for Tuesday night games in term time - a nice little bonus in return for booking in those blocks. All this for next season of course. For now, we just need to incentivise the release of those unused ST seats - 700 on Saturday outside the holiday season - we have to assume that is going to be the norm so need to do better to get these released.

Great post.

Interesting take on the safe standing too.  It was mentioned on the interview (Pettit, I think) that safe standing actually reduces capacity, but I took that as if we converted existing seats to rail seating.   But with your take it could certainly add a different dynamic to the mix.  

Well, I for one never ever envisaged a debate about turning people away for a league 2 midweek game against Carlisle or anybody else for that matter.

It was great to see the Osmond corner full, and all home stands effectively full on Saturday.

We would be foolhardy not to increase capacity one way or another asap. Even tiny clubs manage to install covered seating so it cannot be hugely expensive surely? It must pay for itself or can't we lease it till we arrive at a more permanent solution?

Quoted from diehardmariner

Great post.

Interesting take on the safe standing too.  It was mentioned on the interview (Pettit, I think) that safe standing actually reduces capacity, but I took that as if we converted existing seats to rail seating.   But with your take it could certainly add a different dynamic to the mix.  

I am a bit sceptical about this sold but empty seat thing looking round the ground on Saturday I couldn’t see 700 sold but empty seats. It predisposes the counting is accurate. Not sure how accurate waiving a hand held device in the general direction of my season ticket is when there are long queues waiting to get in