The Trust

Quoted from barralad

At the moment I'm struggling to think of a situation where it would be possible to have meaningful influence away from the Board. When I talk to fans of other trusts they generally think we are lucky to have a platform at the heart of the club where fans issues can at least be raised. I know people will point to the "big" decisions like the Checkatrade and say well a fat lot of good the Trust were but other matters (like the recent discount for S/T holders) came about because Jon Wood was on hand to fight our corner at a meeting which took place after the County game. Anyone who thinks that would just have happened anyway doesnt begin to understand the dynamic. Virtually all the stuff going on behind the scenes at the moment is underpinned by our ability to call on Jon in the boardroom to escalate matters should the need arise.

I think your first sentence underlines the problem.

What is the extent of the Trust's influence as it stands at the minute? How effective is it being seen by many as just an extension of the GTFC board? If it's small goals like negotiating discount on season tickets etc then I can't see how having a seat on the board or not should morally alter any conversation. Independent Trust or not, the GTFC board would be pretty foolish not to have a line of communication open with the largest database of their core support. Are the current Trust board too far into the day to day running from within GTFC to ever take a step back and truly assess the bigger picture options that could be opened up if they stepped away? Are they as bereft as the GTFC board in having no long term plan for the club?

It is my belief that if the Trust stepped away and created a larger scale "Operation Promotion" style fund raising initiative that leads to new ownership of the club, it would have a much longer term and bigger influence on the club than the present situation. Not a crowdfunder purely to raise money to buy the club, but a fighting fund to partly raise capital to buy the club and partly to use to attract new investors to work in partnership with the Trust. A clear stepping away from the board would give the Trust much more provenance than being associated with JF (and I'm sorry to say this) looking like free help and a false cloak of fan involvement in decision making for a board that no longer wants to invest in the club and has run out of any big ideas for the future.

I don't believe in the line that gets trotted out "you don't know how it works". I think there's one or two on the Trust board that are far too intoxicated in personally being part of the GTFC set up. If the Trust don't step away very soon, they'll find swathes of members not renewing their membership because they no longer feel that it's a truly independent fan's trust with a clear core objective to fully get behind and support.

Quoted from Bigdog

I think your first sentence underlines the problem.

What is the extent of the Trust's influence as it stands at the minute? How effective is it being seen by many as just an extension of the GTFC board. If it's small goals like negotiating discount on season tickets etc then I can't see how having a seat on the board or not should morally alter any conversation. Independent or not, the GTFC board would be pretty foolish not to have a line of communication open with the largest database of their core support. Are the current Trust board too far in with the day to day running from within GTFC to ever take a step back and truly assess the bigger picture options that could be opened if they stepped away. Are they as bereft as the GTFC board in having a long term plan for the club?

It is my belief that if the Trust stepped away and created a larger scale "Operation Promotion" style fund raising initiative that leads to new ownership of the club, it would have a much longer term and bigger influence on the club than the present situation. Not a crowdfunder purely to raise money to buy the club, but a fighting fund to partly raise capital to buy the club and partly to use to attract new investors to work in partnership with the Trust. A clear stepping away from the board would give the Trust much more provenance than being (and I'm sorry to say this) free help and a false cloak of fan involvement in decision making at board level to a board that no longer wants to invest in the club and has run out of any big ideas for the future.

I don't believe in the line that gets trotted out "you don't know how it works". I think there's one or two on the Trust board that are far too intoxicated in personally being part of the GTFC set up. If the trust don'r step away very soon, they'll find swathes of members not renewing their membership because they no longer feel that it's a true independent fan's trust with a clear core objective to fully get behind and support.

Echo all of this.

There seems to be some kind of kudos in getting access to the inner sanctum by 'helping' the club whereas all the Trust (in its' current guise) are doing is continuing to perpetuate the custodian's stranglehold of the club.

Quoted from Cloudy

Like pulling hens teeth!
The club haven't 'demanded a chunk of money' from a community organisation!
It was the clubs money in the first place, it is simply 'laundered' through the Trust ( not the best choice of words  perhaps). The bars gave the Trust a focal point, even credibility

Welcome to our world. In short the club realised that they weren't making the most from the bars. They had put a price on a contribution that the Trust needed to make to earn a place on the GTFC board and then offered us the chance to run the bars which was the only way we were ever going to be able to raise anything like the sum required. We jumped at the challenge on the understanding that we would be able to keep anything over and above the 30K to help us meet our responsibilities as a community based trust. We immediately re-employed Sharon and the rest is history. If we stopped running the bars the bars would still be there either run by the club or a third party probably under a similar agreement to ours. The club would by whatever means still get their money.
By general consensus the bars are far better than they were before the Trust took them over. The club have benefited. The Trust have benefited (both financially and as Cloudy says from considerable kudos.) and the customers have benefited. Everyone has won. There are no losers.

Quoted from Caesar

Like dealing with a master spinner, Do we keep a seat on the board if there isn't a £30,000  going from the Trust to the club? You seem to be suggesting the club are effectively giving the Trust a seat on the board for free which is total tosh. If suggesting the Trust literally pay £30,000 in hard cash for the seat on the board is inaccurate, your suggestions that the club are loaning the Trust the money and the influence are equally so!

Sorry but he isn't suggesting that at all. You do realise that Cloudy is independent of the Trust board? We, through Sharon and her staff, have to work hard to raise the required sum of cash. The money definitely is exchanged but what people seem to be struggling to grasp is that without the club giving us the facility to run the bars there would be no payment made coming anywhere close to 30K.

Quoted from Bigdog

I think your first sentence underlines the problem.

What is the extent of the Trust's influence as it stands at the minute? How effective is it being seen by many as just an extension of the GTFC board? If it's small goals like negotiating discount on season tickets etc then I can't see how having a seat on the board or not should morally alter any conversation. Independent Trust or not, the GTFC board would be pretty foolish not to have a line of communication open with the largest database of their core support. Are the current Trust board too far into the day to day running from within GTFC to ever take a step back and truly assess the bigger picture options that could be opened up if they stepped away? Are they as bereft as the GTFC board in having no long term plan for the club?

It is my belief that if the Trust stepped away and created a larger scale "Operation Promotion" style fund raising initiative that leads to new ownership of the club, it would have a much longer term and bigger influence on the club than the present situation. Not a crowdfunder purely to raise money to buy the club, but a fighting fund to partly raise capital to buy the club and partly to use to attract new investors to work in partnership with the Trust. A clear stepping away from the board would give the Trust much more provenance than being associated with JF (and I'm sorry to say this) looking like free help and a false cloak of fan involvement in decision making for a board that no longer wants to invest in the club and has run out of any big ideas for the future.

I don't believe in the line that gets trotted out "you don't know how it works". I think there's one or two on the Trust board that are far too intoxicated in personally being part of the GTFC set up. If the Trust don't step away very soon, they'll find swathes of members not renewing their membership because they no longer feel that it's a truly independent fan's trust with a clear core objective to fully get behind and support.

I do understand where you are coming from although in my view you damage your own argument by trotting out the "too intoxicated" line. The discussions with S.D. are far from concluded at the moment and they have plenty of examples that are at least partly if not fully along the lines of what you talk about.  I am aware of the restrictions you face in being able to help but I'd urge you to get involved now..

Quoted from barralad

Sorry but he isn't suggesting that at all. You do realise that Cloudy is independent of the Trust board? We, through Sharon and her staff, have to work hard to raise the required sum of cash. The money definitely is exchanged but what people seem to be struggling to grasp is that without the club giving us the facility to run the bars there would be no payment made coming anywhere close to 30K.

Sorry but Cloudy saying the Trust is 'laundering' the clubs money, even if they concede it is a slightly poor choice of words is saying exactly that.

I get that the running of the Trust bars is how the 30,000 is raised. I am dim and often uninformed but not that slow. But it strikes me this debate is about if that is the best thing for the Trust to be doing at all. You say it is a win win for both parties.  I agree it was and well done to all involved in setting it up. It has given the Trust a name and alowed it to prove itself and it has been a great accomplishment. But is it still a win win now? That is questionable and my answer is no. And increasingly it feels like many within the Trust will not admit any thought that says so. Little of this debate has to me suggested otherwise so far.

I suppose it would be a bit clearer if Caesar's question was answered. i.e. if the Trust didn't run the bars, and the money didn't flow through the Trust to the Club, would the Trust keep is place on the Board?

If it's the case that it's the Club's money anyway, then it makes no odds whether the Trust runs the bars or not. Therefore, if it didn't run the bars it ought to keep its place on the Board.

Quoted from Caesar

Sorry but Cloudy saying the Trust is 'laundering' the clubs money, even if they concede it is a slightly poor choice of words is saying exactly that.

I get that the running of the Trust bars is how the 30,000 is raised. I am dim and often uninformed but not that slow. But it strikes me this debate is about if that is the best thing for the Trust to be doing at all. You say it is a win win for both parties.  I agree it was and well done to all involved in setting it up. It has given the Trust a name and alowed it to prove itself and it has been a great accomplishment. But is it still a win win now? That is questionable and my answer is no. And increasingly it feels like many within the Trust will not admit any thought that says so. Little of this debate has to me suggested otherwise so far.

At last we are singing from the same hymn sheet. The debate you talk of is exactly the debate going on within the Trust Board. It is why we set up the survey. It is why we are speaking in great detail to Supporters Direct. However at the same time as we are talking to these people we still have to work with the current regime and try to get things done for the members we represent hence the ongoing discussions with the club about the things fans are telling us matter NOW...shift worker season tickets, exile packages, loyalty schemes, improved facilities etc.etc.

Quoted from barralad

At last we are singing from the same hymn sheet. The debate you talk of is exactly the debate going on within the Trust Board. It is why we set up the survey. It is why we are speaking in great detail to Supporters Direct. However at the same time as we are talking to these people we still have to work with the current regime and try to get things done for the members we represent hence the ongoing discussions with the club about the things fans are telling us matter NOW...shift worker season tickets, exile packages, loyalty schemes, improved facilities etc.etc.

And why we are having it here, this you know being a forum where we discuss matters about Grimsby and the Trust positions being one of the important things about Grimsby at the moment. The survey showed a large majority wanted it renegotiated but there seems to be a small leadership group within the Trust who will not countenance any such moves (and I concede this may be a misinterpretion). As I said before I hope I am just being annoying because I am impatient and expecting things to move quicker than they do in reality.

Quoted from Caesar

Thanks for the offer, in fairness Dave Roberts has already responded to an email I sent detailing some next steps. Have not read it properly yet as have had ppl hovering over my screen all afternoon but really appreciate people taking the time to respond.

I get some of what is said regarding a seat at the table in the GTFC board room, but I think if we are set on regime change, which I feel needs to happen, then why be there? Is the discounted season ticket a price worth paying? Certainly isn't worth £35,000. And that also is what I meant by likening the Trust to a membership of a Premier League club rather than investing to secure the future of our club.

Still hopefully I am just expecting too much too soon and certainly hope you are right with answers and new active members.

I get the sense of frustration from a lot of fan`s with a lot of issues and I have been the same for a long time.In the end I decided to actively seek to do something it may all end up a waste of time ultimately but at least I will have the satisfaction of knowing I tried. A lot of these frustrations and issues can be solved in my opinion BUT we need to accept it`s a long haul process and it`s going to take time to change the mindset of the football club. I am more optimistic of a successful future for GTFC today than at most point`s during the past 10 year`s and though only small steps at long last it seems like the Club are open to listening?