To the Owners (merged)

Quoted from 800

A friend of mine goes to all Donny's home and away games. Morecambe won 5 0 at their place. He said the worst thing is that Morecambe only really came for a point but thought they'd take advantage of the gifts presented.

It’s a tight race for that final play-off spot, with 2 points separating 7th and 14th. Morecambe could certainly benefit from some enhancement of their GD column. We’re the footballing equivalent of an all you can eat buffet - why stop after one plateful if you’ve got room for more?

Quoted from Poojah

Genuine question, what logic do you see in giving Artell the Morecambe game? I have to say, I’m struggling to find any argument whatsoever, personally.

£250k possibly

Quoted from HerveJosse

£250k possibly

Chicken feed compared to the cost of relegation. That's 800 - 1000 season tickets without the TV money etc. I personally think they would lose north of 2000 STs.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Chicken feed compared to the cost of relegation. That's 800 - 1000 season tickets without the TV money etc. I personally think they would lose north of 2000 STs.

And if you don’t have it to hand?

Quoted from HerveJosse

£250k possibly

This view that the owners can’t/don’t want to pay off Artell so will stick it out with him whatever is a complete red herring in my view. There’s no evidence for that and it makes no economic sense. It’s a completely ‘plucked out of the air’ figure anyway.

Quoted from HerveJosse

£250k possibly

This is something I really struggle to wrap my head around. To the best of my knowledge, there is no mandatory template set out by the LMA or FA which dictates that there must be X amount of compensation in the event that the club wishes to terminate the contract early.

I appreciate that the manager has his own interests, but Artell was already out of work and there are far more unemployed managers than there are available positions at any given time. Surely the power is in the hands of the club.

I know that the kind of fixed-term contracts commonplace in football are different to most “real world” employment contracts, but surely clubs have the power to protect themselves against gross underperformance?

I say this admittedly not as a student of contract law or as someone totally au fait with the minutiae of the world of football, but if the club has left itself in a position where it is seriously cost prohibitive to remove the manager from his post in the context of the circus on the pitch, then it seems naive to say the least.

Happy to be corrected by anyone who knows more about the subject matter than I do, however.

Quoted from chaos33

This view that the owners can’t/don’t want to pay off Artell so will stick it out with him whatever is a complete red herring in my view. There’s no evidence for that and it makes no economic sense. It’s a completely ‘plucked out of the air’ figure anyway.

There are ways around it, and whatever the severance is shouldn't have to be paid in one lump sum. If money is that tight, stick him on gardening leave.

Quoted from Poojah

This is something I really struggle to wrap my head around. To the best of my knowledge, there is no mandatory template set out by the LMA or FA which dictates that there must be X amount of compensation in the event that the club wishes to terminate the contract early.

I appreciate that the manager has his own interests, but Artell was already out of work and there are far more unemployed managers than there are available positions at any given time. Surely the power is in the hands of the club.

I know that the kind of fixed-term contracts commonplace in football are different to most “real world” employment contracts, but surely clubs have the power to protect themselves against gross underperformance?

I say this admittedly not as a student of contract law or as someone totally au fait with the minutiae of the world of football, but if the club has left itself in a position where it is seriously cost prohibitive to remove the manager from his post in the context of the circus on the pitch, then it seems naive to say the least.

Happy to be corrected by anyone who knows more about the subject matter than I do, however.

And how do you measure a managers gross underperformance he is not out on the pitch decking a referee and getting sent off. Even if you could you then go into a lengthy disciplinary procedure with written warnings chances to improve etc. maybe he has had his first written warning on Saturday after bringing on the Coventry kid ahead of Wilson and Pyke. Just not realistic

If the reason for sticking with Artell is primarily financial, then it makes Stockwood’s comments about not needing investment and how easy it is to raise cash - which sounded ludicrous at the time - appear even more suicidal.

I think there’s definitely been an element of naivety on the part of the owners and I think people including Hurst have taken advantage of them and their good will. Like handing out a six month contract to Scannell when he couldn’t walk - píssing money down the drain, even if he was a good laugh around Cheapside.

I want to know where the data experts at the 21st Group sit in all this? Supposedly hired in an advisory capacity to two owners who openly admit to not being football experts, I hope they haven’t got any money heading their way.

Quoted from HerveJosse

And how do you measure a managers gross underperformance he is not out on the pitch decking a referee and getting sent off. Even if you could you then go into a lengthy disciplinary procedure with written warnings chances to improve etc. maybe he has had his first written warning on Saturday after bringing on the Coventry kid ahead of Wilson and Pyke. Just not realistic

Very simply, you define a minimum acceptable number of points on a sliding scale after so many games. You don’t have to set the bar so high that the manager feels inclined not to take the job, but we were tracking at ~1 point per game when Artell arrived, and maintaining that would have been sufficient to avoid relegation armageddon. If he wasn’t confident that he could average a point per game at the outset, he shouldn’t have been getting the job.

I would have thought misconduct clauses would be a part of any contract, manager, coaching staff or player, but assuming Artell hasn’t chinned the tea lady just yet, that’s not a lever we can pull at this moment in time.