Just Back

It’s a tough one to reflect on.

Part of me wants to say we’ve put in a decent performance against an excellent side away from home and have been robbed with the 3rd goal.

The other part thinks that we’re still all over the place and but for a bad penalty it could’ve been a cricket score.

Either way, we need points and we’re not getting them. I really do think it’s the end of the road for him, we just need a change and a new lease of life.

I think you’re right , we need freshening up . We’ve got good players but we also signed some dross

Think a comfortable win on Tuesday will sooth the mood.

I think a win on tuesday will just paper over the cracks . But it is needed

Quoted from denni266

I think a win on tuesday will just paper over the cracks . But it is needed

But a loss could be the final straw

So it’s destined to be 1-1

On 14th October 1989 I was at Scarborough watching us lose 3-1. A particularly shambolic performance I recall against moderate opposition. The previous week we’d lost at home to Rochdale.

Buckley’s second season started with massive optimism, after the heroic cup run and with Gary Birltes signed. We’d only won 3 games in the league and were languishing in the bottom half. After starting the season with 5k crowds we were back to under 4k.

There was no social media so no frenzy for Buckley to be sacked but the moans were starting at the games. I recall thinking what was the point of Tony Rees. That season is the last time we were promoted from this level.

I’m not making any claims that PH will eventually lead us to glory. But we need to have perspective. The triggers are being pulled elsewhere but I see nothing to gain from 1878 pulling theirs atm. It’s just too early.

What's going on with Charlie Vernam at the moment? Injured?

Injured, out while the new year.

Quoted from HelensburghMariner

What's going on with Charlie Vernam at the moment? Injured?

Until the new year at the earliest. Pretty well covered at the time.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

On 14th October 1989 I was at Scarborough watching us lose 3-1. A particularly shambolic performance I recall against moderate opposition. The previous week we’d lost at home to Rochdale.

Buckley’s second season started with massive optimism, after the heroic cup run and with Gary Birltes signed. We’d only won 3 games in the league and were languishing in the bottom half. After starting the season with 5k crowds we were back to under 4k.

There was no social media so no frenzy for Buckley to be sacked but the moans were starting at the games. I recall thinking what was the point of Tony Rees. That season is the last time we were promoted from this level.

I’m not making any claims that PH will eventually lead us to glory. But we need to have perspective. The triggers are being pulled elsewhere but I see nothing to gain from 1878 pulling theirs atm. It’s just too early.

Hurst has been our manager for 10 years (give or take? and obviously not continuously). I think we have enough perspective of what he's about.

Do you know what, we actually played some decent stuff today, nice forward passing and actually trued to "go" at Stockport, but the difference was we never really looked threatening, yet every time they came at us my backside was in my mouth.
Holohan looked to drive us forward, Conteh had a better game but I'm still not seeing Clifton really doing much bar having the engine of 10 men..
But the one thing that has really got my goat is Hurst today. At 3-2, at least 15 minutes to go(taking into account how much added time there is these days) I looked over and he's sat on his @rse in the dugout whilst the goalkeeping coach is in the technical area, a time when the players who are low on confidence, who've have pulled it back to 2-2, then conceded a killer blow, and will be looking to their manager for guidance, they see Croudson stood there, Hurst hiding in the dugout, what they must think in that situation is beyond me...oh, then leaving it until the 92nd minute to bring more to the attack, I'm baffled tbh.

Holohan looked to drive us forward, Conteh had a better game but I'm still not seeing Clifton really doing much bar having the engine of 10 men.
.[/quote]

Has Clifton ever been anything more than an energetic and totally committed player? I’ve never understood how so many fans rated him so highly and despite my scepticism of his ability there’s nothing I would like more than for him to stuff my opinions back down my throat. However, the more I see him play the less I rate his actual football ability and can’t believe there aren’t better midfield options available.

Come on Harry prove me wrong please as it seems your always going to be selected whilst PH is in charge.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

On 14th October 1989 I was at Scarborough watching us lose 3-1. A particularly shambolic performance I recall against moderate opposition. The previous week we’d lost at home to Rochdale.

Buckley’s second season started with massive optimism, after the heroic cup run and with Gary Birltes signed. We’d only won 3 games in the league and were languishing in the bottom half. After starting the season with 5k crowds we were back to under 4k.

There was no social media so no frenzy for Buckley to be sacked but the moans were starting at the games. I recall thinking what was the point of Tony Rees. That season is the last time we were promoted from this level.

I’m not making any claims that PH will eventually lead us to glory. But we need to have perspective. The triggers are being pulled elsewhere but I see nothing to gain from 1878 pulling theirs atm. It’s just too early.

On 17th October 2009 I was at Blundell Park watching us lose 0-2 to Rochdale. A particularly shambolic performance I recall, with some horrible loan signings making their debuts. The previous week we’d lost at home to Burton Albion despite Chris Jones scoring for us off his bottom.

Newell’s second season started with massive optimism, after the heroic survival run and with Conlon, Sweeney et al signed on permanent deals. We’d won 4 games out of 13 in the league and were languishing in the bottom half.

It obviously went on to get worse and we were relegated to nonleague for the first time in 100 years or whatever it was.

I thought Holohan played quite well today and Clifton put a shift in for a change. Conteh was very much hit and miss in the first half but improved in the second half. What sickened me was hoof ball from Eastwood to Rose all the time who had a 6ft+ on him most of the time.

Compared to them in the first half, we lacked pace and speed. They attacked in force and we didn't. They had runners and we didn't. Mullarkey was given a torrid time down the right and their winger had a whale of a time getting passed him and crossing.

All in all, we were lucky to go in at halftime 2 - 1 down, if they had taken their chances it could have been a minimum of 4 - 0 down. Whether they took their foot off the gas or we dramatically improved in the second half I don't know; but an improvement it was.

Our subs didn't make it any easier and helped their 3rd goal. Sunday off, light training Monday and away we go against Colchester. If they start as they performed in the early part of the second half we will have a decent chance of victory, otherwise, another Accrington etc and Hurst will have to clear his desk.

Highlights:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12989507/stockport-3-2-grimsby-town-league-two-highlights

Hurst said on the radio his substitutions weren't to blame for their winner. Here's Pyke playing their entire team onside from the set piece they scored from (which was never a foul in the first place but that's another matter) about 20 seconds after Hurst brought him on:



Please, Paul, for once, show some accountability and stop taking fans for mugs.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Highlights:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12989507/stockport-3-2-grimsby-town-league-two-highlights

Hurst said on the radio his substitutions weren't to blame for their winner. Here's Pyke playing their entire team onside from the set piece they scored from (which was never a foul in the first place but that's another matter) about 20 seconds after Hurst brought him on:



Please, Paul, for once, show some accountability and stop taking fans for mugs.

What did you want him to say?

"Pyke messed up and caught them onside. I'm never picking him again. Actually, no more substitutions."

I respect the fact he covered for him against fans baying for blood. He copulated up, and he'll learn from it. Same as Rodgers messing up and giving them a clear 1-on-1 for the goal. Players need to learn from this and build upon it.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

What did you want him to say?

"Pyke messed up and caught them onside. I'm never picking him again. Actually, no more substitutions."

I respect the fact he covered for him against fans baying for blood. He copulated up, and he'll learn from it. Same as Rodgers messing up and giving them a clear 1-on-1 for the goal. Players need to learn from this and build upon it.

Are you PH’s agent? Your unqualified support of him is mystifying.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

What did you want him to say?

"Pyke messed up and caught them onside. I'm never picking him again. Actually, no more substitutions."

I respect the fact he covered for him against fans baying for blood. He copulated up, and he'll learn from it. Same as Rodgers messing up and giving them a clear 1-on-1 for the goal. Players need to learn from this and build upon it.

What’s wrong with being honest? No trouble caining the refs every Saturday but that won’t make any difference next week. Doesn’t have to leather anyone but well justified in saying players need to wake up defensively, especially at set pieces, ESPECIALLY 30 seconds after coming on.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Highlights:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12989507/stockport-3-2-grimsby-town-league-two-highlights

Hurst said on the radio his substitutions weren't to blame for their winner. Here's Pyke playing their entire team onside from the set piece they scored from (which was never a foul in the first place but that's another matter) about 20 seconds after Hurst brought him on:

There is always another option. Track your fückin man.

If you’re going to try and step up from a free kick like that, you’d better make sure you’re well drilled and know what you’re doing. We’re about as well drilled as my attempts at DIY (not a euphemism). It’s always a risk that the line or timing is wrong or the officials don’t spot the offside.

Why do it? I’ve got nothing wrong with the high line but why does Rodgers risk trying to step up. And if you do, and get it wrong, don’t crawl back at half pace like you’ve just been turned away by a Pier 39 bouncer.

…and then, if you are going to play a high line, don’t do it with a keeper who’s scared of his own shadow, scared of leaving his goal line and has the speed of foot of a Honda Jazz with a knackered choke.

What pïsses me off more is that Rodgers has either not tracked his man / tried to play offside for their second goal. Just stay with your man. Learn from your mistakes.

And the defending for their second penalty. One long ball takes out the whole defence.

I was joking when I said some of our players should have a dab of speed at half-time but they clearly need some sort of sharpener. They just fall asleep. I’m sure the Fishy can club together to get them some top spec mattresses if they’re not sleeping well.

Try a sèx ban too.

Although, judging by our defending the last few weeks, they’d probably fall asleep on the job anyway.

Absolutely brain dead stuff.

Some big momentum changing moments in the game today...their first penalty, looked very soft to me, shook us as I thought we started ok ...their penalty miss shook them,  a goal just before the break for us .......the ref seemed to completely u turn at half time which helped us......at 2-2 I think it was Amos who slipped in Wilson who just delayed, took an extra touch and allowed the defender to smother him when i thought that was going to be number 3 for us....then our double substitution killed us effectively.

New formation , new approach ...but same shambolic defending, same lack of clear cut chances.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Are you PH’s agent? Your unqualified support of him is mystifying.

Does it trigger you that someone doesn't react emotionally? To try to apply their brain to the situation, and think what would I do in that situation?

Hurst said we were struggling for confidence. Do you build confidence by throwing players off the cliff or protecting them?

I get that in the olden days, when people got drunk, they wanted to lynch folk, and it was all really satisfying, but that's not how things work now, is it?

I'm sure it's really satisfying to say "fornicator let us down, should never play him again. fuckin' liability", but there is a little thing called contracts and budget. Pointless posturing is for show or emotional satiation, not for understanding a situation and what it warrants.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Highlights:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12989507/stockport-3-2-grimsby-town-league-two-highlights

Hurst said on the radio his substitutions weren't to blame for their winner. Here's Pyke playing their entire team onside from the set piece they scored from (which was never a foul in the first place but that's another matter) about 20 seconds after Hurst brought him on:



Please, Paul, for once, show some accountability and stop taking fans for mugs.

To my eye, the Stockport player looks a shade ahead of everyone else in that still, when the ball is kicked.

Quoted from denni266

I think a win on tuesday will just paper over the cracks . But it is needed

it's a very very rare occurrence that I agree with you, but to all intents and purposes this season is over already. All we have to look forward to is mid table mediocrity at best. We are 4 points off being relegated and have won 3 games in 18 . 3 wins in 18. Thats relegation.All a win on Tuesday means is a slight easing of tension. Does anyone really see us going on a 4-6-8 unbeaten run n storming up the table?

i really hate to say it, but this is not the continual improvement that 1878 demands and what we might think should be happening given the FA Cup revenue n our phenomenal support re season ticket sales

I must admit, as an ardent supporter (and defender) of Hurst the situation is becoming increasingly tricky for him.

I don't think he'll be sacked unless we lose another two or three on the bounce — nor do I hope he gets sacked. He tends to get a result as soon as fans get a bit restless, but I must admit, this team looks very low on confidence and confused as to what our approach is at any given time.

We've had our fair share of injuries and bad luck, but most other teams in this division will say the same of themselves.

When we put in a terrible performance, we lose. When we put up a fight (Stockport, Swindon) we still find a way to lose. We had a stinker versus Barrow and won, so that victory instilled very little confidence in anyone.

I dunno, it feels like a real slog at the minute. Nothing feels secure. Everything's loose and very un-Hurst like. Leaky defence is a concern. I don't think he's lost the dressing room but I do think the players lack direction.

The pressure is going to crank up with every game we fail to win. I do hope we win on Tuesday night, and it sparks the turnaround we all hope for. The difficulty is that it already looks like our season is over in terms of play-offs, and the club has to somehow keep everyone's enthusiasm and support going when it's being given plenty of reasons to wane.

Quoted from forza ivano

it's a very very rare occurrence that I agree with you, but to all intents and purposes this season is over already. All we have to look forward to is mid table mediocrity at best. We are 4 points off being relegated and have won 3 games in 18 . 3 wins in 18. Thats relegation.All a win on Tuesday means is a slight easing of tension. Does anyone really see us going on a 4-6-8 unbeaten run n storming up the table?

i really hate to say it, but this is not the continual improvement that 1878 demands and what we might think should be happening given the FA Cup revenue n our phenomenal support re season ticket sales

There are 32 league games to go, more than enough time for a play off place or even promotion. I‘m not saying either will happen but there`s a lot of football still to be played.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

There are 32 league games to go, more than enough time for a play off place or even promotion. I‘m not saying either will happen but there`s a lot of football still to be played.

Probably one of the most deluded posts of all time, congratulations.

Quoted from Dave Gilberts Left Peg

Probably one of the most deluded posts of all time, congratulations.

Except it's factually correct. So many on here proper bealing and it's only October. It's like people have never experienced a long hard slog of a season and were expecting sunshine and roses all the way through. Time to get real, dig in and back the team and players as best you can.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

On 14th October 1989 I was at Scarborough watching us lose 3-1. A particularly shambolic performance I recall against moderate opposition. The previous week we’d lost at home to Rochdale.

Buckley’s second season started with massive optimism, after the heroic cup run and with Gary Birltes signed. We’d only won 3 games in the league and were languishing in the bottom half. After starting the season with 5k crowds we were back to under 4k.

There was no social media so no frenzy for Buckley to be sacked but the moans were starting at the games. I recall thinking what was the point of Tony Rees. That season is the last time we were promoted from this level.

I’m not making any claims that PH will eventually lead us to glory. But we need to have perspective. The triggers are being pulled elsewhere but I see nothing to gain from 1878 pulling theirs atm. It’s just too early.

I was at that game too, absloutely awful performance. Rememember the "little cherubs" from Edgehill sat on the wall at the back of the away end lobbing stones at us in the away end.. One of our fans got hit so turned around picked up said stone and threw it back catching one of the cherubs right in the middle of the forehead making him fall backwards base over apex off the wall, the rest of the others disappeared and we didn't see them again. The stewards moved in and tried to throw our fan out but we had to show the stewards what they had been throwing at us to stop our fan from being thrown out..

Quoted from Chrisblor

Please, Paul, for once, show some accountability and stop taking fans for mugs.

I'm not sure you can blame the manager for a player not holding the line. Pyle knows what offside is. He's a professional footballer with eyes.  

And let's not forget that when the manager gives an interview post match he hasn't had the benefit of tv replays.  He's giving an interview based on what he saw once from the angle he had which was from the dugout.

Likewise for their first penalty. Paul won't have seen the incident in full through a crowded penalty box. He'll be relying on Mahers account which probably went something like "I didn't touch him"

How many times have we screamed out at a decision, absolutely convinced it's wrong....only to see that on replays that we were wrong.  

So let's not hang the manager based on post match interviews.

For me i don't think the referee had a bad game. We'll never know about that first penalty decision in the absence of better camera angles.

The guy was definitely offside.

People quite rightly point out there's a lot of football to be played. However, we're further away from mid table than  the bottom (note: mid table, not the play offs). Despite the early season gloom we've just about been scoring  enough goals recently but our defence leaks like a very old bucket.
So to take advantage of the many games remaining, something needs to change, and quickly. So what will it be? Personnel - that's seems unlikely
Formation - we've tried most of them
Confidence - possible with a couple of decent results
Manager - PH doesn't give the impression of a man who thinks much is wrong at the moment despite the chorus of disapproval at our performances. Will a new man get a better tune out of these players by changing the formation or instilling greater belief?
That's the great conundrum for 1878 and I'm not sure I'd like to be the one making the decisions. One thing for sure it needs to happen quickly because the games remaining will be pointless unless something changes.
Finally I'm not sure if praying for two worse teams than us counts as continuous improvement.

Quoted from buckstown

People quite rightly point out there's a lot of football to be played. However, we're further away from mid table than  the bottom (note: mid table, not the play offs). Despite the early season gloom we've just about been scoring  enough goals recently but our defence leaks like a very old bucket.
So to take advantage of the many games remaining, something needs to change, and quickly. So what will it be? Personnel - that's seems unlikely
Formation - we've tried most of them
Confidence - possible with a couple of decent results
Manager - PH doesn't give the impression of a man who thinks much is wrong at the moment despite the chorus of disapproval at our performances. Will a new man get a better tune out of these players by changing the formation or instilling greater belief?
That's the great conundrum for 1878 and I'm not sure I'd like to be the one making the decisions. One thing for sure it needs to happen quickly because the games remaining will be pointless unless something changes.
Finally I'm not sure if praying for two worse teams than us counts as continuous improvement.

I've said this before, ( as has others), I'll say it again, why is Croudson issuing orders and where is the attacking coach?

Quoted from Ruston AT

I've said this before, ( as has others), I'll say it again, why is Croudson issuing orders and where is the attacking coach?

Because he has a louder and more distinctive voice? He's part of the management team; everything will be discussed and agreed beforehand

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

There are 32 league games to go, more than enough time for a play off place or even promotion. I‘m not saying either will happen but there`s a lot of football still to be played.

we would need 60+ points from 32 games to get into the play offs, i.e. more or less 2 points per game. To think we could do that with the strength of this division is , i'd say, bordering on delusional!

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

There is always another option. Track your fückin man.

If you’re going to try and step up from a free kick like that, you’d better make sure you’re well drilled and know what you’re doing. We’re about as well drilled as my attempts at DIY (not a euphemism). It’s always a risk that the line or timing is wrong or the officials don’t spot the offside.

Why do it? I’ve got nothing wrong with the high line but why does Rodgers risk trying to step up. And if you do, and get it wrong, don’t crawl back at half pace like you’ve just been turned away by a Pier 39 bouncer.

…and then, if you are going to play a high line, don’t do it with a keeper who’s scared of his own shadow, scared of leaving his goal line and has the speed of foot of a Honda Jazz with a knackered choke.

What pïsses me off more is that Rodgers has either not tracked his man / tried to play offside for their second goal. Just stay with your man. Learn from your mistakes.

And the defending for their second penalty. One long ball takes out the whole defence.

I was joking when I said some of our players should have a dab of speed at half-time but they clearly need some sort of sharpener. They just fall asleep. I’m sure the Fishy can club together to get them some top spec mattresses if they’re not sleeping well.

Try a sèx ban too.

Although, judging by our defending the last few weeks, they’d probably fall asleep on the job anyway.

Absolutely brain dead stuff.

I agree. All those coaches with thousands of games between them as defenders, and our defending is dogsh1t.

Quoted from Chrisblor

Highlights:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12989507/stockport-3-2-grimsby-town-league-two-highlights

Hurst said on the radio his substitutions weren't to blame for their winner. Here's Pyke playing their entire team onside from the set piece they scored from (which was never a foul in the first place but that's another matter) about 20 seconds after Hurst brought him on:




Please, Paul, for once, show some accountability and stop taking fans for mugs.

Clifton is exactly in line with Pyke. Not sure why one is getting slated and not the other. It looks borderline offside, hard to be sure from that angle

Quoted from RichMariner

I must admit, as an ardent supporter (and defender) of Hurst the situation is becoming increasingly tricky for him.

I don't think he'll be sacked unless we lose another two or three on the bounce — nor do I hope he gets sacked. He tends to get a result as soon as fans get a bit restless, but I must admit, this team looks very low on confidence and confused as to what our approach is at any given time.

We've had our fair share of injuries and bad luck, but most other teams in this division will say the same of themselves.

When we put in a terrible performance, we lose. When we put up a fight (Stockport, Swindon) we still find a way to lose. We had a stinker versus Barrow and won, so that victory instilled very little confidence in anyone.

I dunno, it feels like a real slog at the minute. Nothing feels secure. Everything's loose and very un-Hurst like. Leaky defence is a concern. I don't think he's lost the dressing room but I do think the players lack direction.

The pressure is going to crank up with every game we fail to win. I do hope we win on Tuesday night, and it sparks the turnaround we all hope for. The difficulty is that it already looks like our season is over in terms of play-offs, and the club has to somehow keep everyone's enthusiasm and support going when it's being given plenty of reasons to wane.

Good post. What worries me most is that I don’t see any visible team spirit, passion, excitement, bond with the fans etc
It looks flat. Functional.

Quoted from pen penfras

Clifton is exactly in line with Pyke. Not sure why one is getting slated and not the other. It looks borderline offside, hard to be sure from that angle

My varifocals say that you are mistaken. Harry is in front of Pyke and tracking a Stockport player. Pyke is on his heels and masquerading as a sentient professional footballer. Baffling substitution.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Holohan looked to drive us forward, Conteh had a better game but I'm still not seeing Clifton really doing much bar having the engine of 10 men.
.

Has Clifton ever been anything more than an energetic and totally committed player? I’ve never understood how so many fans rated him so highly and despite my scepticism of his ability there’s nothing I would like more than for him to stuff my opinions back down my throat. However, the more I see him play the less I rate his actual football ability and can’t believe there aren’t better midfield options available.

Come on Harry prove me wrong please as it seems your always going to be selected whilst PH is in charge.[/quote]

Harry's energy won a penalty and saved a certain goal at the other end with a last ditch last man tackle.Not sure what people want or expect but his passing not the best I accept that but the rest of his game more than adequate to get him in our starting eleven.All our problems yesterday where defensive .

Quoted from Yarborough Vaults

Except it's factually correct. So many on here proper bealing and it's only October. It's like people have never experienced a long hard slog of a season and were expecting sunshine and roses all the way through. Time to get real, dig in and back the team and players as best you can.

Love this comment.

If you have a moment if you haven't seen already take a look at Middlesbrough start to the season and look where they are now.
I honestly think if we stick with Saturdays formation and Wilson stays fit we will be mid table (10th-16th)

Quoted from Yarborough Vaults

Except it's factually correct. So many on here proper bealing and it's only October. It's like people have never experienced a long hard slog of a season and were expecting sunshine and roses all the way through. Time to get real, dig in and back the team and players as best you can.

Love this comment.

If you have a moment if you haven't seen already take a look at Middlesbrough start to the season and look where they are now.
I honestly think if we stick with Saturdays formation and Wilson stays fit we will be mid table (10th-16th)

Quoted from lukeo

Love this comment.

If you have a moment if you haven't seen already take a look at Middlesbrough start to the season and look where they are now.
I honestly think if we stick with Saturdays formation and Wilson stays fit we will be mid table (10th-16th)

Middlesbrough started to pick up after 7 games, we’re 14 games in…

Quoted from pontoonlew

Middlesbrough started to pick up after 7 games, we’re 14 games in…

Added to that we were substantially better at the start of the season with new players trying to make an impression and the crowd hopeful.

We have got worse as times gone on, both with results and by and large performances.

Anything like this current form continuing and we will have yet another relegation battle on our hands.

For such an experienced manager Hurst does make far too many mistakes in recruitment, systems, subs and general appreciation of what league 2 requires.

Quoted from forza ivano

we would need 60+ points from 32 games to get into the play offs, i.e. more or less 2 points per game. To think we could do that with the strength of this division is , i'd say, bordering on delusional!

It`s like you only read the first line of my post! I`m not suggesting we will get a play off place or promotion but there are still a lot of games left.

A couple of people have mentioned Middlesborough, Stockport started slowly but have been on a run of wins, Bolton a couple of seasons ago started very badly but went on a run of (I think) 10 wins that propelled them to promotion.

This is possible but not probable at the moment.

And before I`m called a happy clapper, if we lose on Tuesday I think that we will need to make a change to take advantage of 31 games to go and a  chance to change our current trajectory.

If we lose on Tuesday I wont give a fcuck what we do the rest of the season - I'll buy a Drone and play with myself on the beach.

Quoted from 141269

I'm not sure you can blame the manager for a player not holding the line. Pyke knows what offside is. He's a professional footballer with eyes.  

The manager is accountable for signing the player and then playing the player though.
So if he's signed a player who appears to lack football intelligence (and ability), then that IS on the manager.

Quoted from 141269

I'm not sure you can blame the manager for a player not holding the line. Pyle knows what offside is. He's a professional footballer with eyes.  

And let's not forget that when the manager gives an interview post match he hasn't had the benefit of tv replays.  He's giving an interview based on what he saw once from the angle he had which was from the dugout.

The offside trap was poor all afternoon, 2nd half Efete was constantly dropping deep as Maher and Rogers pushed out in a Tony Adams style, new partnerships, lack of confidence or just poor defending. The crucial goal,  the line was never straight so can't single out one player...but we didn't deal with the dropping ball either.....and I think I am right in saying we had every player back to defend it.

The ref....he was crap. Absolutely awful first half, massive homer, second half he improved on his fussiness but was inconsistent and wrong , in both directions.

However both are irrelevant really, you can't expect to win a game when you only dominate for 15 - 20 mins, that's the wider issue.

Quoted from lukeo

Love this comment.

If you have a moment if you haven't seen already take a look at Middlesbrough start to the season and look where they are now.
I honestly think if we stick with Saturdays formation and Wilson stays fit we will be mid table (10th-16th)

Yep. Middlesbrough turned it round after 6 games. We’ve got progressively worse.

Quoted from golfer

If we lose on Tuesday I wont give a fcuck what we do the rest of the season - I'll buy a Drone and play with myself on the beach.

So the drone will be for filming yourself from above while you play with yourself? That`s quite niche. Not my bag personally but each to their own.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Yep. Middlesbrough turned it round after 6 games. We’ve got progressively worse.

Ah yes, because it`s Grimsby (and fits your Hurst out view) there is no conceivable way that things could be turned around in 31 games or 6 months.

Relegation and sh*t performances are as inevitable as sunrise and sunset.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Ah yes, because it`s Grimsby (and fits your Hurst out view) there is no conceivable way that things could be turned around in 31 games or 6 months.

Relegation and sh*t performances are as inevitable as sunrise and sunset.

Equally, there are those that believe the 26 games PH had left when he took over in our last relegation season was not a conceivable amount of time to be able to turn things around.


Yes there is time to turn it around, but that doesnt mean we will. And if we did turn it around, to achieve what? A lowly mid-table or bottom half finish? That in itself will be failure this season with the increased budget and fees spent on multiple players. I don't think the squad has shown that its capable of a play off push in the way its been managed so far.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Ah yes, because it`s Grimsby (and fits your Hurst out view) there is no conceivable way that things could be turned around in 31 games or 6 months.

Relegation and sh*t performances are as inevitable as sunrise and sunset.

What constitutes turning it around? Finishing in the playoffs requires title winning form for the rest of the season, totally unrealistic.

Closer to playoffs than relegation? 17th position is achieving that, nobody will be happy with 17th.

We need to be better than last season, so 10th or above. Not impossible but would you have taken this start and finishing 10th before the season started? I bet nobody would, and realistically that's the best outcome we're getting.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

What did you want him to say?

"Pyke messed up and caught them onside. I'm never picking him again. Actually, no more substitutions."

I respect the fact he covered for him against fans baying for blood. He copulated up, and he'll learn from it. Same as Rodgers messing up and giving them a clear 1-on-1 for the goal. Players need to learn from this and build upon it.

Exactly. a lot of what Paul says in his interviews is aimed at man managing his players which he (rightly) cares more about than what we think about him. I don't get why people cant see this. what he says in interviews may not be what he says behind closed doors

Quoted from golfer

If we lose on Tuesday I wont give a fcuck what we do the rest of the season - I'll buy a Drone and play with myself on the beach.

Personally, I'd rather watch you play with a Drone, than yourself.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

It`s like you only read the first line of my post! I`m not suggesting we will get a play off place or promotion but there are still a lot of games left.

A couple of people have mentioned Middlesborough, Stockport started slowly but have been on a run of wins, Bolton a couple of seasons ago started very badly but went on a run of (I think) 10 wins that propelled them to promotion.

This is possible but not probable at the moment.

And before I`m called a happy clapper, if we lose on Tuesday I think that we will need to make a change to take advantage of 31 games to go and a  chance to change our current trajectory.

I never understand what solace it brings to look at other teams and "whatabouting" You pick the ones with situations that fit our argument and go with them. Well pick another, what about Sutton? or Colchester? Not fitting your argument either? It's pointless as such.
PH Mk2 had half a season to save Town, after Holloway went off in a huff, and there wasn't time to pull it around. He was making assessments in January when he should have been on the phone doing a deal(s) Not his fault, and that's my point as it wasn't planned as such.  If we are pulling the trigger I want the new Manager to have time to assess the players, so he can make a plan, and make the necessary adjustment(s) in January 2024. This argument isn't going away.
T

Quoted from GrimPol

I never understand what solace it brings to look at other teams and "whatabouting" You pick the ones with situations that fit our argument and go with them. Well pick another, what about Sutton? or Colchester? Not fitting your argument either? It's pointless as such.
PH Mk2 had half a season to save Town, after Holloway went off in a huff, and there wasn't time to pull it around. He was making assessments in January when he should have been on the phone doing a deal(s) Not his fault, and that's my point as it wasn't planned as such.  If we are pulling the trigger I want the new Manager to have time to assess the players, so he can make a plan, and make the necessary adjustment(s) in January 2024. This argument isn't going away.
T

At that time we had a previous regime in charge. They said money was available to sign new players, but not how much. So did Hurst spend it or was the availability in name only to abase the fans? We shall never know the truth but we know what the outcome was.

This season we are told a similar story, but the signings ( keeper apart ) may have been an improvement in terms of footballing abilities. What we have lost is team spirit, come back kids, and run till you drop. Added to that is a defence that has more holes than a colander and leeks goals by sheer neglect. Let us not forget that the one main asset Hurst's teams had was a solid defence. For what ever reason this has all gone astray so far this season.

Time for a new manager and a big thank you to Paul Hurst for his achievements for the club.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

On 14th October 1989 I was at Scarborough watching us lose 3-1. A particularly shambolic performance I recall against moderate opposition. The previous week we’d lost at home to Rochdale.

Buckley’s second season started with massive optimism, after the heroic cup run and with Gary Birltes signed. We’d only won 3 games in the league and were languishing in the bottom half. After starting the season with 5k crowds we were back to under 4k.

There was no social media so no frenzy for Buckley to be sacked but the moans were starting at the games. I recall thinking what was the point of Tony Rees. That season is the last time we were promoted from this level.

I’m not making any claims that PH will eventually lead us to glory. But we need to have perspective. The triggers are being pulled elsewhere but I see nothing to gain from 1878 pulling theirs atm. It’s just too early.

Buckley had stamped a new identity on Town though hadn’t he? The team played good football? People could see what he was trying to do.

You can’t say any of that about Hurst and the squad he’s assembled.

Same old story isn't it.

Let's not kid ourselves, Stockport let us back into that game.  They were about fifty levels above us in the first 20 minutes and it was only when started pissing themselves laughing at the quality of their second penalty that they stopped playing and we got a kick.

Holohan aside in the majority of the first half we were flipping awful.  He was the only one who looked to the balls about him to get on the ball and try and do something with it.  

We can whinge about their third goal all we like but Amos practically dribbled the ball like he was Michael Jordon for Wilson's goal.  

The performance did improve and whilst it was definitely more about them letting us back into it, why does it take for us to go a couple of goals behind to wake up?  As the game went on a players improved, Conteh went from looking like someone who had won a competition to stand aimlessly as a fourth centre-back to slightly resembling the player we signed in the summer.  Clifton got the bit between his teeth and looked up for it but his touch and general form has just abandoned him altogether.

Losing Holohan did us.  Soon as he went off we lost our intensity and a little bit of drive from midfield into attack.  I can kinda see why Hurst went with Khan as the change, probably thinking someone a bit cuter on the ball but with 20 minutes out that game was going to be won or lost by grinding it out in a a similar way to how Gav had done for the previous 70 minutes.  I'm not saying Andrews or Hunt would have replicated his role, but probably more so than what Khan did.

That we then went 20 more minutes of chasing the game without making a change was incredibly frustrating.  Didn't get the feeling that they believed in themselves and we definitely didn't play like a side who were chasing a point, a badly needed point at that.  We just fizzed out as the clock ran down.  

If Hurst somehow turns it round and survives the chop, that missed penalty is the turning point for him.  The crowd had already gone toxic and you could feel it brewing away in the stand.  The miss and then Wilson's goal did enough to really stop it boiling over.  

Louie Barry is a cheat-code in this division though. That's up there with one of the most dominant performances from a player I've seen in an opposition shirt, certainly in the first half.  To say he tore our right hand side a new anus is an understatement.

Quoted from RichMariner

I must admit, as an ardent supporter (and defender) of Hurst the situation is becoming increasingly tricky for him.

I don't think he'll be sacked unless we lose another two or three on the bounce — nor do I hope he gets sacked. He tends to get a result as soon as fans get a bit restless, but I must admit, this team looks very low on confidence and confused as to what our approach is at any given time.

We've had our fair share of injuries and bad luck, but most other teams in this division will say the same of themselves.

When we put in a terrible performance, we lose. When we put up a fight (Stockport, Swindon) we still find a way to lose. We had a stinker versus Barrow and won, so that victory instilled very little confidence in anyone.

I dunno, it feels like a real slog at the minute. Nothing feels secure. Everything's loose and very un-Hurst like. Leaky defence is a concern. I don't think he's lost the dressing room but I do think the players lack direction.

The pressure is going to crank up with every game we fail to win. I do hope we win on Tuesday night, and it sparks the turnaround we all hope for. The difficulty is that it already looks like our season is over in terms of play-offs, and the club has to somehow keep everyone's enthusiasm and support going when it's being given plenty of reasons to wane.

This is a brilliant post and very similar to where I am.

I too am a huge PH fan and have previously said - and maintain - that I will admire the man right up until and beyond his time here because I have a respect for how he conducts himself and the improvements he's made at GTFC over both spells. But every manager has limitations, or simply runs of form that warrant his removal and at some point in time that will come for PH.

I'm not sure we're quite there yet but it is becoming harder to defend our situation and even for myself we're a small handful of poor performances/results away before I would agree with the growing concerns. I've cited before situations with other teams and their scenarios at a certain point in the year compared to the end, and of course that can still be applicable to us. What my information shows is the concrete fact, not the manner of their situation at the time which is where subjective opinion comes in when the facts can't be established for another 7 months.

Even up until the Swindon game, despite the lack of points I thought how we were playing wasn't terrible and I'd seen enough to think that only a small stroke of luck or similar could be the catalyst to change the results.

Since Barrow though I think we've been iffy at best. Barrow deserved to walk away with everything and was a very poor performance from us. Tranmere and Accrington, without being disrespectful to either, weren't much in comparison to most of the teams we've played so far and although I didn't think our performances were atrocious, in respect of the quality of opposition it fell below what I think would be considered an 'acceptable' level.

The Stockport game again reverts back a little to games previous but maintains the trend. We have good spells in the game where we look like we're fully capable of competing with the team top of the league and in great form. Yet in those moments when we're on top we're still lacking in guile and craft to really create the sense that a goal is coming. On the flip side, every time the opposition stroll into our half there's a mini panic because we're frail, more surprising given the acquisition of some good defenders and PH teams being notorious for being difficult to break down.

I think Colchester does represent something as close to 'must win' as you can get. It won't relegate us if we don't but given their form, if we can't capitalise on it then it's nigh on impossible for even the most ardent of PH fans to defend our situation. Regardless of how culpable anyone thinks PH is (let's not forget the players), the nature of the game is that the manager carries the can.

The one thing I do believe and should be a factor is I think PH is trying to change his style slightly. He's always been pragmatic, and you can still see shades of that, but I also think he's trying to adopt a more dominant possession based game. We've lost a little of that high press we saw early season (perhaps nerves given the form plays a part?), and we've lost some confidence in our ability to retain the ball (understandable given the form?), but with any change requires time. We as fans will always be a little impatient hence the growing concern is understandable, but for the brave among the fanbase it may in the longer term work much to our benefit. The problem is how long and how patient do you stay before the risk becomes a little too great?

I'm so desperate for Town to go on a run from Tuesday night, not just because it's my team but because I'm wishing PH to be the man to push us on. As I said, at some point he will take us as far as he can, but for all he's given the Club I'd hate for it to be 20th in League 2.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

This is a brilliant post and very similar to where I am.

I too am a huge PH fan and have previously said - and maintain - that I will admire the man right up until and beyond his time here because I have a respect for how he conducts himself and the improvements he's made at GTFC over both spells. But every manager has limitations, or simply runs of form that warrant his removal and at some point in time that will come for PH.

I'm not sure we're quite there yet but it is becoming harder to defend our situation and even for myself we're a small handful of poor performances/results away before I would agree with the growing concerns. I've cited before situations with other teams and their scenarios at a certain point in the year compared to the end, and of course that can still be applicable to us. What my information shows is the concrete fact, not the manner of their situation at the time which is where subjective opinion comes in when the facts can't be established for another 7 months.

Even up until the Swindon game, despite the lack of points I thought how we were playing wasn't terrible and I'd seen enough to think that only a small stroke of luck or similar could be the catalyst to change the results.

Since Barrow though I think we've been iffy at best. Barrow deserved to walk away with everything and was a very poor performance from us. Tranmere and Accrington, without being disrespectful to either, weren't much in comparison to most of the teams we've played so far and although I didn't think our performances were atrocious, in respect of the quality of opposition it fell below what I think would be considered an 'acceptable' level.

The Stockport game again reverts back a little to games previous but maintains the trend. We have good spells in the game where we look like we're fully capable of competing with the team top of the league and in great form. Yet in those moments when we're on top we're still lacking in guile and craft to really create the sense that a goal is coming. On the flip side, every time the opposition stroll into our half there's a mini panic because we're frail, more surprising given the acquisition of some good defenders and PH teams being notorious for being difficult to break down.

I think Colchester does represent something as close to 'must win' as you can get. It won't relegate us if we don't but given their form, if we can't capitalise on it then it's nigh on impossible for even the most ardent of PH fans to defend our situation. Regardless of how culpable anyone thinks PH is (let's not forget the players), the nature of the game is that the manager carries the can.

The one thing I do believe and should be a factor is I think PH is trying to change his style slightly. He's always been pragmatic, and you can still see shades of that, but I also think he's trying to adopt a more dominant possession based game. We've lost a little of that high press we saw early season (perhaps nerves given the form plays a part?), and we've lost some confidence in our ability to retain the ball (understandable given the form?), but with any change requires time. We as fans will always be a little impatient hence the growing concern is understandable, but for the brave among the fanbase it may in the longer term work much to our benefit. The problem is how long and how patient do you stay before the risk becomes a little too great?

I'm so desperate for Town to go on a run from Tuesday night, not just because it's my team but because I'm wishing PH to be the man to push us on. As I said, at some point he will take us as far as he can, but for all he's given the Club I'd hate for it to be 20th in League 2.

Fair points but if the players we signed were better technicians then it shouldn't beyond the manager and coaches to get them playing a more possession based system.  Like everything else ball retention has gone backwards, and even when we have the ball we are far far too ponderous.

Again it points to a manager not really believing in a particular ethos.

Quoted from diehardmariner

Same old story isn't it.

Let's not kid ourselves, Stockport let us back into that game.  They were about fifty levels above us in the first 20 minutes and it was only when started pissing themselves laughing at the quality of their second penalty that they stopped playing and we got a kick.

Holohan aside in the majority of the first half we were flipping awful.  He was the only one who looked to the balls about him to get on the ball and try and do something with it.  

We can whinge about their third goal all we like but Amos practically dribbled the ball like he was Michael Jordon for Wilson's goal.  

The performance did improve and whilst it was definitely more about them letting us back into it, why does it take for us to go a couple of goals behind to wake up?  As the game went on a players improved, Conteh went from looking like someone who had won a competition to stand aimlessly as a fourth centre-back to slightly resembling the player we signed in the summer.  Clifton got the bit between his teeth and looked up for it but his touch and general form has just abandoned him altogether.

Losing Holohan did us.  Soon as he went off we lost our intensity and a little bit of drive from midfield into attack.  I can kinda see why Hurst went with Khan as the change, probably thinking someone a bit cuter on the ball but with 20 minutes out that game was going to be won or lost by grinding it out in a a similar way to how Gav had done for the previous 70 minutes.  I'm not saying Andrews or Hunt would have replicated his role, but probably more so than what Khan did.

That we then went 20 more minutes of chasing the game without making a change was incredibly frustrating.  Didn't get the feeling that they believed in themselves and we definitely didn't play like a side who were chasing a point, a badly needed point at that.  We just fizzed out as the clock ran down.  

If Hurst somehow turns it round and survives the chop, that missed penalty is the turning point for him.  The crowd had already gone toxic and you could feel it brewing away in the stand.  The miss and then Wilson's goal did enough to really stop it boiling over.  

Louie Barry is a cheat-code in this division though. That's up there with one of the most dominant performances from a player I've seen in an opposition shirt, certainly in the first half.  To say he tore our right hand side a new anus is an understatement.

If Louie Barry had taken the 2nd Stockport penalty and put it away we’d probably have lost 5 or 6-0. It was turning into one of those types of matches.

For me all our problems lay in central midfield. Clifton & Holohan offer energy and workrate but little quality. We’re too easy to play against. Green being fit would help. He could do the sitting role and allow us to take the shackles off Conteh. And maybe give Hunt a run of games.

We all know if PH is sacked the first thing his replacement will do is bring him in from the cold and give him a run of games.

I said to my mate when it was 2-0 that this had the 6-0 at Oldham feel to it.  Taking a beating, crowd turning toxic and genuinely felt a battering could see Hurst go.

Alas, it didn't happen.  

I don't disagree that midfield is a problem.  When Conteh got on the ball he improved and influenced things.  But even with a back four he's too deep too often, with a back five it was agony watching him stand 3 feet away from Rodgers.  He steps up just five yards when we don't have the ball and it changes everything.

I want to see Hunt play but if we're persisting with Conteh sitting so deep I don't really see any alternative other than Holohan and Clifton simply because we need the other two midfielders to cover so much ground.  They need to win their battle in the middle, try and support the attack, plus get out wide because our wing-backs aren't playing wing-back at all.  No wonder Holohan went down after 70 minutes!