Just Back

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Ah yes, because it`s Grimsby (and fits your Hurst out view) there is no conceivable way that things could be turned around in 31 games or 6 months.

Relegation and sh*t performances are as inevitable as sunrise and sunset.

Equally, there are those that believe the 26 games PH had left when he took over in our last relegation season was not a conceivable amount of time to be able to turn things around.


Yes there is time to turn it around, but that doesnt mean we will. And if we did turn it around, to achieve what? A lowly mid-table or bottom half finish? That in itself will be failure this season with the increased budget and fees spent on multiple players. I don't think the squad has shown that its capable of a play off push in the way its been managed so far.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

Ah yes, because it`s Grimsby (and fits your Hurst out view) there is no conceivable way that things could be turned around in 31 games or 6 months.

Relegation and sh*t performances are as inevitable as sunrise and sunset.

What constitutes turning it around? Finishing in the playoffs requires title winning form for the rest of the season, totally unrealistic.

Closer to playoffs than relegation? 17th position is achieving that, nobody will be happy with 17th.

We need to be better than last season, so 10th or above. Not impossible but would you have taken this start and finishing 10th before the season started? I bet nobody would, and realistically that's the best outcome we're getting.

Quoted from AncientExiledMariner

What did you want him to say?

"Pyke messed up and caught them onside. I'm never picking him again. Actually, no more substitutions."

I respect the fact he covered for him against fans baying for blood. He copulated up, and he'll learn from it. Same as Rodgers messing up and giving them a clear 1-on-1 for the goal. Players need to learn from this and build upon it.

Exactly. a lot of what Paul says in his interviews is aimed at man managing his players which he (rightly) cares more about than what we think about him. I don't get why people cant see this. what he says in interviews may not be what he says behind closed doors

Quoted from golfer

If we lose on Tuesday I wont give a fcuck what we do the rest of the season - I'll buy a Drone and play with myself on the beach.

Personally, I'd rather watch you play with a Drone, than yourself.

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

It`s like you only read the first line of my post! I`m not suggesting we will get a play off place or promotion but there are still a lot of games left.

A couple of people have mentioned Middlesborough, Stockport started slowly but have been on a run of wins, Bolton a couple of seasons ago started very badly but went on a run of (I think) 10 wins that propelled them to promotion.

This is possible but not probable at the moment.

And before I`m called a happy clapper, if we lose on Tuesday I think that we will need to make a change to take advantage of 31 games to go and a  chance to change our current trajectory.

I never understand what solace it brings to look at other teams and "whatabouting" You pick the ones with situations that fit our argument and go with them. Well pick another, what about Sutton? or Colchester? Not fitting your argument either? It's pointless as such.
PH Mk2 had half a season to save Town, after Holloway went off in a huff, and there wasn't time to pull it around. He was making assessments in January when he should have been on the phone doing a deal(s) Not his fault, and that's my point as it wasn't planned as such.  If we are pulling the trigger I want the new Manager to have time to assess the players, so he can make a plan, and make the necessary adjustment(s) in January 2024. This argument isn't going away.
T

Quoted from GrimPol

I never understand what solace it brings to look at other teams and "whatabouting" You pick the ones with situations that fit our argument and go with them. Well pick another, what about Sutton? or Colchester? Not fitting your argument either? It's pointless as such.
PH Mk2 had half a season to save Town, after Holloway went off in a huff, and there wasn't time to pull it around. He was making assessments in January when he should have been on the phone doing a deal(s) Not his fault, and that's my point as it wasn't planned as such.  If we are pulling the trigger I want the new Manager to have time to assess the players, so he can make a plan, and make the necessary adjustment(s) in January 2024. This argument isn't going away.
T

At that time we had a previous regime in charge. They said money was available to sign new players, but not how much. So did Hurst spend it or was the availability in name only to abase the fans? We shall never know the truth but we know what the outcome was.

This season we are told a similar story, but the signings ( keeper apart ) may have been an improvement in terms of footballing abilities. What we have lost is team spirit, come back kids, and run till you drop. Added to that is a defence that has more holes than a colander and leeks goals by sheer neglect. Let us not forget that the one main asset Hurst's teams had was a solid defence. For what ever reason this has all gone astray so far this season.

Time for a new manager and a big thank you to Paul Hurst for his achievements for the club.

Quoted from Limerick Mariner

On 14th October 1989 I was at Scarborough watching us lose 3-1. A particularly shambolic performance I recall against moderate opposition. The previous week we’d lost at home to Rochdale.

Buckley’s second season started with massive optimism, after the heroic cup run and with Gary Birltes signed. We’d only won 3 games in the league and were languishing in the bottom half. After starting the season with 5k crowds we were back to under 4k.

There was no social media so no frenzy for Buckley to be sacked but the moans were starting at the games. I recall thinking what was the point of Tony Rees. That season is the last time we were promoted from this level.

I’m not making any claims that PH will eventually lead us to glory. But we need to have perspective. The triggers are being pulled elsewhere but I see nothing to gain from 1878 pulling theirs atm. It’s just too early.

Buckley had stamped a new identity on Town though hadn’t he? The team played good football? People could see what he was trying to do.

You can’t say any of that about Hurst and the squad he’s assembled.

Same old story isn't it.

Let's not kid ourselves, Stockport let us back into that game.  They were about fifty levels above us in the first 20 minutes and it was only when started pissing themselves laughing at the quality of their second penalty that they stopped playing and we got a kick.

Holohan aside in the majority of the first half we were flipping awful.  He was the only one who looked to the balls about him to get on the ball and try and do something with it.  

We can whinge about their third goal all we like but Amos practically dribbled the ball like he was Michael Jordon for Wilson's goal.  

The performance did improve and whilst it was definitely more about them letting us back into it, why does it take for us to go a couple of goals behind to wake up?  As the game went on a players improved, Conteh went from looking like someone who had won a competition to stand aimlessly as a fourth centre-back to slightly resembling the player we signed in the summer.  Clifton got the bit between his teeth and looked up for it but his touch and general form has just abandoned him altogether.

Losing Holohan did us.  Soon as he went off we lost our intensity and a little bit of drive from midfield into attack.  I can kinda see why Hurst went with Khan as the change, probably thinking someone a bit cuter on the ball but with 20 minutes out that game was going to be won or lost by grinding it out in a a similar way to how Gav had done for the previous 70 minutes.  I'm not saying Andrews or Hunt would have replicated his role, but probably more so than what Khan did.

That we then went 20 more minutes of chasing the game without making a change was incredibly frustrating.  Didn't get the feeling that they believed in themselves and we definitely didn't play like a side who were chasing a point, a badly needed point at that.  We just fizzed out as the clock ran down.  

If Hurst somehow turns it round and survives the chop, that missed penalty is the turning point for him.  The crowd had already gone toxic and you could feel it brewing away in the stand.  The miss and then Wilson's goal did enough to really stop it boiling over.  

Louie Barry is a cheat-code in this division though. That's up there with one of the most dominant performances from a player I've seen in an opposition shirt, certainly in the first half.  To say he tore our right hand side a new anus is an understatement.

Quoted from RichMariner

I must admit, as an ardent supporter (and defender) of Hurst the situation is becoming increasingly tricky for him.

I don't think he'll be sacked unless we lose another two or three on the bounce — nor do I hope he gets sacked. He tends to get a result as soon as fans get a bit restless, but I must admit, this team looks very low on confidence and confused as to what our approach is at any given time.

We've had our fair share of injuries and bad luck, but most other teams in this division will say the same of themselves.

When we put in a terrible performance, we lose. When we put up a fight (Stockport, Swindon) we still find a way to lose. We had a stinker versus Barrow and won, so that victory instilled very little confidence in anyone.

I dunno, it feels like a real slog at the minute. Nothing feels secure. Everything's loose and very un-Hurst like. Leaky defence is a concern. I don't think he's lost the dressing room but I do think the players lack direction.

The pressure is going to crank up with every game we fail to win. I do hope we win on Tuesday night, and it sparks the turnaround we all hope for. The difficulty is that it already looks like our season is over in terms of play-offs, and the club has to somehow keep everyone's enthusiasm and support going when it's being given plenty of reasons to wane.

This is a brilliant post and very similar to where I am.

I too am a huge PH fan and have previously said - and maintain - that I will admire the man right up until and beyond his time here because I have a respect for how he conducts himself and the improvements he's made at GTFC over both spells. But every manager has limitations, or simply runs of form that warrant his removal and at some point in time that will come for PH.

I'm not sure we're quite there yet but it is becoming harder to defend our situation and even for myself we're a small handful of poor performances/results away before I would agree with the growing concerns. I've cited before situations with other teams and their scenarios at a certain point in the year compared to the end, and of course that can still be applicable to us. What my information shows is the concrete fact, not the manner of their situation at the time which is where subjective opinion comes in when the facts can't be established for another 7 months.

Even up until the Swindon game, despite the lack of points I thought how we were playing wasn't terrible and I'd seen enough to think that only a small stroke of luck or similar could be the catalyst to change the results.

Since Barrow though I think we've been iffy at best. Barrow deserved to walk away with everything and was a very poor performance from us. Tranmere and Accrington, without being disrespectful to either, weren't much in comparison to most of the teams we've played so far and although I didn't think our performances were atrocious, in respect of the quality of opposition it fell below what I think would be considered an 'acceptable' level.

The Stockport game again reverts back a little to games previous but maintains the trend. We have good spells in the game where we look like we're fully capable of competing with the team top of the league and in great form. Yet in those moments when we're on top we're still lacking in guile and craft to really create the sense that a goal is coming. On the flip side, every time the opposition stroll into our half there's a mini panic because we're frail, more surprising given the acquisition of some good defenders and PH teams being notorious for being difficult to break down.

I think Colchester does represent something as close to 'must win' as you can get. It won't relegate us if we don't but given their form, if we can't capitalise on it then it's nigh on impossible for even the most ardent of PH fans to defend our situation. Regardless of how culpable anyone thinks PH is (let's not forget the players), the nature of the game is that the manager carries the can.

The one thing I do believe and should be a factor is I think PH is trying to change his style slightly. He's always been pragmatic, and you can still see shades of that, but I also think he's trying to adopt a more dominant possession based game. We've lost a little of that high press we saw early season (perhaps nerves given the form plays a part?), and we've lost some confidence in our ability to retain the ball (understandable given the form?), but with any change requires time. We as fans will always be a little impatient hence the growing concern is understandable, but for the brave among the fanbase it may in the longer term work much to our benefit. The problem is how long and how patient do you stay before the risk becomes a little too great?

I'm so desperate for Town to go on a run from Tuesday night, not just because it's my team but because I'm wishing PH to be the man to push us on. As I said, at some point he will take us as far as he can, but for all he's given the Club I'd hate for it to be 20th in League 2.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

This is a brilliant post and very similar to where I am.

I too am a huge PH fan and have previously said - and maintain - that I will admire the man right up until and beyond his time here because I have a respect for how he conducts himself and the improvements he's made at GTFC over both spells. But every manager has limitations, or simply runs of form that warrant his removal and at some point in time that will come for PH.

I'm not sure we're quite there yet but it is becoming harder to defend our situation and even for myself we're a small handful of poor performances/results away before I would agree with the growing concerns. I've cited before situations with other teams and their scenarios at a certain point in the year compared to the end, and of course that can still be applicable to us. What my information shows is the concrete fact, not the manner of their situation at the time which is where subjective opinion comes in when the facts can't be established for another 7 months.

Even up until the Swindon game, despite the lack of points I thought how we were playing wasn't terrible and I'd seen enough to think that only a small stroke of luck or similar could be the catalyst to change the results.

Since Barrow though I think we've been iffy at best. Barrow deserved to walk away with everything and was a very poor performance from us. Tranmere and Accrington, without being disrespectful to either, weren't much in comparison to most of the teams we've played so far and although I didn't think our performances were atrocious, in respect of the quality of opposition it fell below what I think would be considered an 'acceptable' level.

The Stockport game again reverts back a little to games previous but maintains the trend. We have good spells in the game where we look like we're fully capable of competing with the team top of the league and in great form. Yet in those moments when we're on top we're still lacking in guile and craft to really create the sense that a goal is coming. On the flip side, every time the opposition stroll into our half there's a mini panic because we're frail, more surprising given the acquisition of some good defenders and PH teams being notorious for being difficult to break down.

I think Colchester does represent something as close to 'must win' as you can get. It won't relegate us if we don't but given their form, if we can't capitalise on it then it's nigh on impossible for even the most ardent of PH fans to defend our situation. Regardless of how culpable anyone thinks PH is (let's not forget the players), the nature of the game is that the manager carries the can.

The one thing I do believe and should be a factor is I think PH is trying to change his style slightly. He's always been pragmatic, and you can still see shades of that, but I also think he's trying to adopt a more dominant possession based game. We've lost a little of that high press we saw early season (perhaps nerves given the form plays a part?), and we've lost some confidence in our ability to retain the ball (understandable given the form?), but with any change requires time. We as fans will always be a little impatient hence the growing concern is understandable, but for the brave among the fanbase it may in the longer term work much to our benefit. The problem is how long and how patient do you stay before the risk becomes a little too great?

I'm so desperate for Town to go on a run from Tuesday night, not just because it's my team but because I'm wishing PH to be the man to push us on. As I said, at some point he will take us as far as he can, but for all he's given the Club I'd hate for it to be 20th in League 2.

Fair points but if the players we signed were better technicians then it shouldn't beyond the manager and coaches to get them playing a more possession based system.  Like everything else ball retention has gone backwards, and even when we have the ball we are far far too ponderous.

Again it points to a manager not really believing in a particular ethos.