Upgrades

[quote=140636]

I take your point completely but I'm not sure players playing below our level can be seen as upgrades unless they are really outstanding. Is a player from Halifax really going to be an upgrade? (Yes, Paul Futcher....)

The general feeling is that Loyd looks the business and we should sign him and he comes from a team above us

I was just commenting on what I saw, he looked a very useful player and incidentally he scored again in the next match. Watch the highlights, he looked just the exciting type of player we need.

Quoted from diehardmariner

But that's what strikers get judged on.  Whilst at Town, his record was absolutely peerless.  7 goals in 16 games (only 3 of which were starts).  A goal every 71 minutes he played.

12 in 38 at a Halifax side that's spent most of the season struggling is the sort of return we've dreamed off from a striker this campaign.  

I dunno if he's league standard, or certainly not to the standard of a side that have aspirations of promotion into League One.  But he was a damn sight better than the raft of loanees that were brought in throughout the season and you can probably include those that have had permanent deals this season too.  

Very much like in 2016 when we came up.  We rightly looked to upgrade, but we actually downgraded in some areas.

Hindsight is ace, but I'd have kept Mani with the challenge of 'go and prove you're good enough to start'.

I would be very surprised if Hurst didn’t have that conversation with Mani & he rejected it because he wanted to be a first choice striker elsewhere. He’d had been a decent enough alternative option but he wouldn’t have been anyones first choice.

This time last year, he started up front against a very poor Kings Lynn team & was absolutely useless. His strength was coming on as an impact sub and mixing things up, when you needed something different.

Hindsight is tricky because I’m certain there was some sort of domino effect, which resulted in us going into the season so short of striking options. There is no chance that Hurst would have been naive enough to go into the season with the striking options we had... Something, somewhere must have fell through.

Regardless though, Hursty cannot afford to make that mistake again irrelevant of what did or didn’t happen.

Quoted from Sir Matt Tease

This thread is entitled "Upgrades"

I'm afraid some people are easily pleased as most of the names mentioned are definitely NOT upgrades.

Why the obsession with ex players ? Vernham, had a few decent games but was anonymous the rest of the time. Done nothing since he left us, NO. Nsiala, always looked like an accident waiting to happen, NO.

Liked the look of the Hartlepool right wing back and the midfielder who scored a hat-trick, they would be upgrades. Also watched the Halifax v Wrexham match and Alli for Halifax would be an upgrade. He was a bit like Sousa but knew what he was doing  

There are players out there but they must be BETTER than what we have or whats the point ?

I sort of agree with what you are saying

But on a wider point is there actually that many 'great 'players in league 2 ?

I think teams are wildly inconsistent with players who invariably are all at a similiar level with a few exceptions , it must be true to some extent as who would have picked Leyton Orient & Carlisle to be right up there  it just seems if you get on a role you can get decent momentum ,look at Stockport they were lower than us a few months ago and now could get a top 3 spot .

Like I have before i expect us to challenge top 3 mainly based on past teams to go up knowing its not in the main the big spenders that go right through , but then realistically i think the league will be stronger next season with about half the league spending all and sundry to get out so would a more modest improvement be acceptable ?

I would not be against having Toto back I am assuming he has improved a lot and would add height and physicality something that seems vital at this level , who knows if hes even available though hasnt he been league 1 for years ?

I agree with Vernam though he was basically copy and paste as above about league 2 players , it seems a lot of the good technical players at this level have a hit rate of about 1 in 4 or 5 , i suppose with him like Maguire Drew you are hoping it plays a vital part in gaining points or promotions .

Quoted from Maringer

It will be interesting to see what the plans are for next season. We've ended up playing much of the season with 3 at the back almost by accident, but I'm not convinced we really have the players to make a real success of this. Glennon certainly isn't quick or fit enough to play wing-back, Amos a bit quicker but hasn't won the place so that's the left-hand side lacking. On the other side, Efete isn't confident enough to make a go of being an attacking wing-back enough, even though I think it is probably within his range. Emmanuel in and out of the team as well and not a wing-back.

On the assumption that Smith isn't with us again next season, I could certainly see us playing Efete in a back 3 regularly and this could give us the chance to sign a proper attacking wing-back, but that still leaves us a little lacking on the left-hand side. If Vernam is to return, I'd expect we'll be going back to a flat back four once again.

I think Hurst likes the system and once he gets a taste for something, he doesn't like to deviate it from it.

At the minute I think he's torn between old faithful of 4-4-2 (or a variation of) and wingbacks.  I agree that we haven't got the wingbacks to play the system effectively.  Efete and Emmanuel don't look consistent enough to do the role but as a pairing (Efete as centre-back and Emmanuel the wingback), we do look a different prospect.  

I suppose Vernam, if he comes back, adds a dynamic where you have to play wingers to get the best out of him.  I suppose a 3-4-3 would suit wingbacks and wingers, potentially alleviating some of the concerns over our current offerings at wingback too.  Glennon and Amos might look different in those positions if they've someone in front of them still, albeit potentially slightly inverted.  

I like the wingback system and the benefits it brings, but it's very niche and requires each position to have a specialist in it.  You can't get away with shoehorning people in really.  

At the back you've got to to have mobile centre-backs, especially the wider ones.  You need a screening midfielder and then two absolute engines who can get across and cover the raiding wingbacks.  The wingbacks have to have their own super levels of stamina but also be able to deliver crosses at will, because there's no-one else who's going down there.  Add to that they've got to defend too.  Then up top you're potentially not getting much service because everyone else is stretched, so you need to make sure you've someone who can hold it up but another who can drop in to fill the gap between attack and midfield and then someone stretch their defence, ideally you've got two who can do both those roles in tandem.

I think the raw components are there.  In Efete and Maher there's wide centre-backs who can move and get forward.  Waterfall is the warrior in the middle but I think Smith could do that role (wouldn't be surprised to see him here permanently this summer).  Emmanuel, again as per Smith I'm not convinced he gets bigger and better offers than us this summer, with a pre-season behind could be very, very dangerous on a consistent level in this division.  The left needs an upgrade, be it Amos and Glennon kick-on or we bring in better.  Centrally I'd like Green to be the one who protects the back four and just gets in the way.  Clifton, if here, is your absolute legs and I'd be keen to see Hunt further forward looking to use his technical ability other than just spraying passes across the back.

Up front is where we fall short, but that's the same in any system.

Realistically you've gotta have cover for every position too.  You can't revert back to 4-4-2 because one player is out.  Easy to see why so few teams go with wingbacks.

Quoted from bradzmilne

I would be very surprised if Hurst didn’t have that conversation with Mani & he rejected it because he wanted to be a first choice striker elsewhere. He’d had been a decent enough alternative option but he wouldn’t have been anyones first choice.

This time last year, he started up front against a very poor Kings Lynn team & was absolutely useless. His strength was coming on as an impact sub and mixing things up, when you needed something different.

Hindsight is tricky because I’m certain there was some sort of domino effect, which resulted in us going into the season so short of striking options. There is no chance that Hurst would have been naive enough to go into the season with the striking options we had... Something, somewhere must have fell through.

Regardless though, Hursty cannot afford to make that mistake again irrelevant of what did or didn’t happen.

Oh absolutely.  Truth be told I don't think Hurst really fancied Mani.  The first team shout was almost an easy get out for Hurst, because otherwise he's faced with an Amond type situation again where he gets asked why didn't we try to keep him...

Mani's a confident lad and would have backed himself to get a chance, hell you could see Taylor would pick up injuries based on history alone.  Added to that I think we all knew McAtee would leave, the only real surprise was that we got him back on loan for the full season.  

There was definitely an aspiration to improve on Mani, as there should have been too!  But as with too many transfer windows for my liking, we look to have got caught short again and again when it came to our targets.

all this talk about mani ignores the fact that Mani didn't want to stay ,because PH couldn't guarentee he'd be first choice

Quoted from diehardmariner

Oh absolutely.  Truth be told I don't think Hurst really fancied Mani.  The first team shout was almost an easy get out for Hurst, because otherwise he's faced with an Amond type situation again where he gets asked why didn't we try to keep him...

Mani's a confident lad and would have backed himself to get a chance, hell you could see Taylor would pick up injuries based on history alone.  Added to that I think we all knew McAtee would leave, the only real surprise was that we got him back on loan for the full season.  

There was definitely an aspiration to improve on Mani, as there should have been too!  But as with too many transfer windows for my liking, we look to have got caught short again and again when it came to our targets.

Yep, you’ve hit the nail on the head.

The next balancing act is going out and getting that illusive striker. Ideally early doors without over paying.

That’s a tough job for any manager.

Tyler walker , Josh umerah, Louis moult, Andy cook, Lee Gregory, Charles vernam! All Players we’ve been linked with before all are out of contract in June!

Quoted from grassbandits

Appreciate this likely isn't the most exciting news and he's out injured for the rest of this season but 100% deal done for Vernam return in the summer..

Is this a fact, or just some more speculation?

Quoted from WOZOFGRIMSBY

Tyler walker , Josh umerah, Louis moult, Andy cook, Lee Gregory, Charles vernam! All Players we’ve been linked with before all are out of contract in June!

Last time Walker was at this level he absolotely tore it up and can see him getting a L1 team.

Umerah - I think he's still got another year hasn't he?

Moult - Not kept track on him since going to jockland

Cook - Will be Bradford's biggest earner or get a move back to a mid-tabled L1 team maybe Lincoln/Wycombe to replace Sam Vokes?

Gregory - Someone has mentioned we've been in talks to sign him from Wednesday, I know he's early 30s but surely got another season at L1 before dropping into L2 for another payday?

Vernam - Only logical one I could see on this list unless we absolutely give Hartlepool what they want for Umerah.