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Grown men running on the pitch??

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Croxton
October 13, 2021, 10:02am
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Quoted from EvilFish
I think Ska Face has this spot on. It's about a proportional response.

A little over exuberance and spilling temporarily onto the side of the pitch, jumping about for a few seconds, and then going back may technically be illegal, but it's a minor infraction.

Deliberately damaging the ground in whatever way is criminal damage, it also shows a distinct lack of class. That should be punished.

Actually crossing the white line onto the pitch should be punishable also. Although even that is about context - as others have pointed out, a full-scale end of season pitch invasion to celebrate promotion has no malice in it and should be taken in that context.


What I personally don't like to see is fans running on the pitching and running up to join the huddle of players in celebration. It's the players' celebration as a team - you aren't part of that team. So celebrate it with other fans, but not with the players - that's not your place and is out of order.


All very reasonable, especially your last point. We have been asked, however, to obey stadium rules both home and away so that the club are not punished and more fixtures moved. It has been hugely inconvenient already to have so many changes to kick off on top of TV demands. It impacts fans, players and non playing staff, We all gain by being that bit more considerate and aware of others even when jubilant at 'one of our own' scoring the winner.

Credit to Ska Face for owning his celebration. We can all identify with that. The conduct of those fans behind the goal at Altrincham would have seen a strong response from Police and stewards at Mansfield and County. The Pyros caused several of us oldies to cough and splutter. Why should I have to stand near the corner flag to breathe clean air?

A 'proportional' response would be to stop the game while the smoke clears and a final warning issued by the ref. We want Macca to be treated with respect by opposing fans so leave the goalie and goal alone.
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jamesgtfc
October 13, 2021, 10:04am
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Quoted from ska face


Police will move kick offs whenever they fancy it based on the flimsiest of evidence or intelligence, historical factors that are 20/30/40 years out of date and when they can’t find a justification, they’ll just completely fabricate something (like Chesterfield a few years back). As for making it harder for the club to argue against, I’d like to see them try for once!

This whole thread, which has dragged on for half a week now, demonstrates why it’s so easy for football fans to have their rights taken away, en masse, and face poor treatment at the hands of the police - because people will justify anything if they think they’re better than the those they’re calling for action against. The thread’s been an illuminating, if depressing, exercise in dehumanising language, stereotyping, straw-man arguments and a weird form of classism.

Some seem to be justifying their abuse by stating it’s illegal to be on the pitch. Being drunk in a football ground is also illegal, but we have a thread on here every week talking about which pubs to visit. Should we start hammering everyone posting in there? I’d imagine almost everyone on here is guilty of that. Last year standing outside with 2 other people was illegal. If you think you can justify abusing people based on what’s legal or illegal this week or next, you’re on a slippery slope.

Nobody’s said pitch encroachment is fine, but people have asked for a bit more of a proportional response rather than the sentences being handed down from the Fishy kangaroo court where everyone who brushes a blade of grass shall be hung, drawn and quartered. Some of the strawman arguments on here are laughable - it’s some reach to go from someone being on the pitch (for 5 seconds, by about 2ft) to then “swinging for a steward” or “a nutter” getting on the pitch. Also saying “if one person does it, everyone will do it” sounds like the kind of argument you’d have with a 2-year-old. It’s an offence if one person or a thousand do it - it’s up to the authorities to police it and charge people if they want, it doesn’t become less of offence through the number of people doing it.

A lot of the behaviour - pulling nets, giving grief to stewards or club staff - is embarrassing and reminds me of that bullying attitude FC Utd had when they first started out and had stands full of Man Utd fans. But it would be a lot easier to weed that out if the reaction to every little infringement wasn’t the “shoot them and drown their kids” we get on here.


If it's proportional to be ok with a few people going onto the pitch then more will go on and then before you know it, it's dozens.

We are now having to pay to repair the Altrincham net. If fans just stayed behind a barrier and didn't set off flares, we wouldn't have this unnecessary expense.

Next time it happens, I think the statement from the club won't be as nice.
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ska face
October 13, 2021, 10:35am

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Quoted from jamesgtfc


If it's proportional to be ok with a few people going onto the pitch then more will go on and then before you know it, it's dozens.
.


Just doesn’t stack up as an argument, there’s no evidence for it. People have been doing it for years, as long as I can remember, and it’s never been more than a slack handful - other than when we beat Barnet at home in 2010 and scored the winner at Braintree in 2016.
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EvilFish
October 13, 2021, 11:57am
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You have contradicted yourself there haven't you? We should indeed celebrate with other fans - on our side of the barriers.  It is totally wrong for spectators to be on the field of play - ie over the barriers- for all sorts of reasons. There was a scourge of this sort of thing with football and cricket but that was decades ago. Let's not give people any more stick to beat the name of Grimsby with.


Not really. I'm talking about people "spilling" onto the edge of the pitch, rather than a pre-meditated decision to go onto the pitch. I admit there's a fine line there, but there's still a line. Which is why - legally and personally - our attitude to that should be proportionate.

At some grounds it would actually be quite easy to be 'shoved' onto the pitch mid-celebration, and if you then continued your jumping around on the edge of the pitch for 30 seconds and then went back to your seat, I can understand that in the heat of the moment.

If you're charging onto the actual pitch to jump around with the players, that's a totally different thing to me. That might still be 'heat of the moment' but I would argue there's still a thought process there, no matter how short that thinking is.
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BobbyCummingsTackle
October 13, 2021, 12:05pm
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Quoted from EvilFish


Not really. I'm talking about people "spilling" onto the edge of the pitch, rather than a pre-meditated decision to go onto the pitch. I admit there's a fine line there, but there's still a line. Which is why - legally and personally - our attitude to that should be proportionate.

At some grounds it would actually be quite easy to be 'shoved' onto the pitch mid-celebration, and if you then continued your jumping around on the edge of the pitch for 30 seconds and then went back to your seat, I can understand that in the heat of the moment.

If you're charging onto the actual pitch to jump around with the players, that's a totally different thing to me. That might still be 'heat of the moment' but I would argue there's still a thought process there, no matter how short that thinking is.


I am 53. I have been to hundreds (possibly thousands) of football matches. I have never "spilled on to the pitch". People don't spill, they make conscious decisions.


40+ years of black and white striped misery.
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Sussexmariner
October 13, 2021, 12:44pm

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I am 53. I have been to hundreds (possibly thousands) of football matches. I have never "spilled on to the pitch". People don't spill, they make conscious decisions.


I’m 56 and distinctly remember I want to say away at Stoke could be Port Vale we were crammed into the away end many years ago. we scored a late equaliser and a surge from the back of the terraces pushed me and everyone around me forward onto a unlocked  gate manned by a steward and unable to help myself I spilled onto the pitch. I celebrated for a few moments then walked back onto the open terrace.
To my knowledge no one died because of the encroachment on the grass and I do not believe I have any outstanding arrest warrants for my misdemeanour.


Are we any closer to getting promoted since Hurst has been here? No

Has he been given time to achieve promotion by the chairman and fans? Yes

Hurst out
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Posh Harry
October 13, 2021, 1:16pm
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Quoted from ska face


Police will move kick offs whenever they fancy it based on the flimsiest of evidence or intelligence, historical factors that are 20/30/40 years out of date and when they can’t find a justification, they’ll just completely fabricate something (like Chesterfield a few years back). As for making it harder for the club to argue against, I’d like to see them try for once!

This whole thread, which has dragged on for half a week now, demonstrates why it’s so easy for football fans to have their rights taken away, en masse, and face poor treatment at the hands of the police - because people will justify anything if they think they’re better than the those they’re calling for action against. The thread’s been an illuminating, if depressing, exercise in dehumanising language, stereotyping, straw-man arguments and a weird form of classism.

Some seem to be justifying their abuse by stating it’s illegal to be on the pitch. Being drunk in a football ground is also illegal, but we have a thread on here every week talking about which pubs to visit. Should we start hammering everyone posting in there? I’d imagine almost everyone on here is guilty of that. Last year standing outside with 2 other people was illegal. If you think you can justify abusing people based on what’s legal or illegal this week or next, you’re on a slippery slope.

Nobody’s said pitch encroachment is fine, but people have asked for a bit more of a proportional response rather than the sentences being handed down from the Fishy kangaroo court where everyone who brushes a blade of grass shall be hung, drawn and quartered. Some of the strawman arguments on here are laughable - it’s some reach to go from someone being on the pitch (for 5 seconds, by about 2ft) to then “swinging for a steward” or “a nutter” getting on the pitch. Also saying “if one person does it, everyone will do it” sounds like the kind of argument you’d have with a 2-year-old. It’s an offence if one person or a thousand do it - it’s up to the authorities to police it and charge people if they want, it doesn’t become less of offence through the number of people doing it.

A lot of the behaviour - pulling nets, giving grief to stewards or club staff - is embarrassing and reminds me of that bullying attitude FC Utd had when they first started out and had stands full of Man Utd fans. But it would be a lot easier to weed that out if the reaction to every little infringement wasn’t the “shoot them and drown their kids” we get on here.


I agree with some of what you say, but have my own opinion about a number of points.

Firstly, maybe the police do whatever they fancy, but as long as this type of things go on (and this club has a history of fans on the pitch) then we are just giving them the excuse. Sorry, but you can’t use the historical argument when fans are on the pitch away at Woking and home to Barnet in the last few weeks. The club have said this is part of the problem and clearly they believe that if it stops, they will have more of a chance of having that conversation with the police. It doesn’t mean it will change overnight but if we have the attitude of it will happen whatever, then it will happen. Also, our previous owners and stadium manager looked down their noses at fans rather than seeing them as people to look after and help so it would never have changed, now we have owners who want to engage with the police around this subject, why wouldn’t we see that it might actually make a difference and therefore try not to do it?

How do you measure whether someone is drunk or not? Test everyone before they are allowed entry? What is being drunk officially? Is it being over the driving limit? Is it being abusive? If someone goes on the pitch it can be measured and obvious. I don’t get your point on this to be honest.

You have also mentioned people being abusive on this thread? Have they? Can’t say I have seen anything actually abusive. If calling people who go onto the pitch idiots or morons is abusive then I would go back to your own point about being on a slippery slop.

And I completely agree pulling nets and giving grief to stewards and club officials is embarrassing, what I don’t understand is that you find that embarrassing but you don’t see teenagers and middle aged men jumping on the pitch to hug a player embarrassing? They are supporters and therefore representatives of our club and the way we are perceived. If that is not embarrassing then I don’t know what is.

UTFM
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BobbyCummingsTackle
October 13, 2021, 1:20pm
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Quoted from Sussexmariner


I’m 56 and distinctly remember I want to say away at Stoke could be Port Vale we were crammed into the away end many years ago. we scored a late equaliser and a surge from the back of the terraces pushed me and everyone around me forward onto a unlocked  gate manned by a steward and unable to help myself I spilled onto the pitch. I celebrated for a few moments then walked back onto the open terrace.
To my knowledge no one died because of the encroachment on the grass and I do not believe I have any outstanding arrest warrants for my misdemeanour.


Conscious decision.


40+ years of black and white striped misery.
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jamesgtfc
October 13, 2021, 1:26pm
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Quoted from ska face


Just doesn’t stack up as an argument, there’s no evidence for it. People have been doing it for years, as long as I can remember, and it’s never been more than a slack handful - other than when we beat Barnet at home in 2010 and scored the winner at Braintree in 2016.


We disagree. I think it spoils things, presents a risk and gives the club an even weaker argument when the police ask to move games.

If the club just tolerate it they run the risk of being charged with failing to control their own fans. They've asked nicely twice to little effect so next time will probably be stern with a more serious threat of consequences.
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Sussexmariner
October 13, 2021, 1:46pm

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Conscious decision.


To celebrate on the pitch for a few seconds not to actually get on the pitch in the first place


Are we any closer to getting promoted since Hurst has been here? No

Has he been given time to achieve promotion by the chairman and fans? Yes

Hurst out
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