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If Michael Jolley was to leave..

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scott_gtfc_89
October 20, 2019, 12:30pm Report to Moderator
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Would you be happy with Anthony Limbrick given the chance of first team manager? Or would you prefer someone with more experience
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Grantham_Mariner
October 20, 2019, 12:42pm Report to Moderator

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NO NO NO it never works promoting from within.


If the football is bad you can always watch the gulls.
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wigworld
October 20, 2019, 12:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CodHead


I’d be happy with Limbrick can’t do any worse. Surely?


We've had at least 3 other managers in the last 15 years who've done worse.

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HertsGTFC
October 20, 2019, 1:59pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Grantham_Mariner
NO NO NO it never works promoting from within.


George kerr


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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Northbank Mariner
October 20, 2019, 2:12pm Report to Moderator
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So you're asking if people would accept a serial loser as a manager?....limbrick took working down, he gets sacked and the next season they storm the league ...it's a no from me...
If Jolley was to go if be asking Dave Moore to take a caretaker role on then really take our time finding a new manager, who that would be, not really sure who we could attract with the size of our budget....
To be honest, when I look at what Sol Campbell did with Macclesfield I'd be half tempted but not completely behind the appointment..
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grimsby pete
October 20, 2019, 2:22pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Northbank Mariner
So you're asking if people would accept a serial loser as a manager?....limbrick took working down, he gets sacked and the next season they storm the league ...it's a no from me...
If Jolley was to go if be asking Dave Moore to take a caretaker role on then really take our time finding a new manager, who that would be, not really sure who we could attract with the size of our budget....
To be honest, when I look at what Sol Campbell did with Macclesfield I'd be half tempted but not completely behind the appointment..


To be fair to Limbrick he had Woking riding high in the conference but had to sell his 3 best players in January he also lost another player I think in that window and that's when they started falling like a brick.

The club made some good money from those sales and got decent players in for a promotion push to get back where they started.

Having said that Jolley will not be going anywhere at the moment it would look bad on his CV so we will see what happens after this season we will not be bottom and I think a play off place must be the aim.

BUT

We wont achieve that if he keeps changing the team and telling players to play out of position they must be getting a bit drunk off doing that and then being  dropped.


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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Northbank Mariner
October 20, 2019, 2:29pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from grimsby pete


To be fair to Limbrick he had Woking riding high in the conference but had to sell his 3 best players in January he also lost another player I think in that window and that's when they started falling like a brick.

The club made some good money from those sales and got decent players in for a promotion push to get back where they started.

Having said that Jolley will not be going anywhere at the moment it would look bad on his CV so we will see what happens after this season we will not be bottom and I think a play off place must be the aim.

BUT

We wont achieve that if he keeps changing the team and telling players to play out of position they must be getting a bit drunk off doing that and then being  dropped.


Makes you wonder if he's lost the dressing room Pete, with the experience of the likes of Hanson, and Green they must question his tactics, both of them have worked under far more successful managers and probably have a better understanding of football than MJ himself.
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Stadium
October 20, 2019, 3:01pm Report to Moderator
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Awaiting suggestions of Buckley with Disley etc etc.

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arryarryarry
October 20, 2019, 3:03pm Report to Moderator
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I don't think Alan Buckley is doing anything these days and what's Craig Disley up to?

We could do worse?
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grimsby pete
October 20, 2019, 3:07pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


Makes you wonder if he's lost the dressing room Pete, with the experience of the likes of Hanson, and Green they must question his tactics, both of them have worked under far more successful managers and probably have a better understanding of football than MJ himself.


If he has not lost the dressing room now he will before very long if he keeps doing what he is doing.

Another Thomas outburst might be on the cards.


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
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The Old Codger
October 20, 2019, 3:26pm Report to Moderator
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There’s no excuses now for MJ. His team, his staff so he either picks a system and a team and starts winning or it’s time to start all over again.

My opinion is that he feels duty bound to pick certain players. Ohman is the prime example. No way should he be starting ahead of either Davis or Pollock. He gives away cheap free kicks, can’t pass and is yellow carded most games.
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lew chaterleys lover
October 20, 2019, 3:36pm Report to Moderator
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To me it seems there is always something amiss in the background.

The managers come in, all guns blazing and predicting an exciting future, they call us a big club for this level and usually comment on the great support, particularly away from home. They all know BP is a difficult place to come for the opposition.

Look how excited Jolley was when he spoke after the Notts game when we avoided the drop.

Yet every manager over the past nearly two decades (maybe apart from Slade Mk 1) have struggled to make an impact.

I wonder why that is? Do they realise after a short time they have been sold a pup, and have more or less an impossible job? Then they start to get ratty, and look for arguments. They have a pop at the crowd, or the media.

Look at yesterdays players - our two big signings Hanson and Green both signed 5 years too late. Everything seems reactive not proactive.  

Somebody behind me yesterday said our club looks like the Phoenix Nights of the football world - every club even the very small ones seem better organised.Everything is stale, old or cheap or all three.

If Jolley goes, if he has lost the dressing room and he has lost that initial enthusiasm then we start again with another new manager all guns blazing...  
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Gaffer58
October 20, 2019, 4:05pm Report to Moderator
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To be honest Jolley is doing a reasonable job, not great but not a disaster, he just needs to learn when his team and style win a game not to think too hard for the next game and stick to what is working, then the players know that if they do their job they keep their place. Pollock is a fine example, in a winning team, does nothing wrong but gets dropped for the next game, his confidence just gets crushed. As people mention Buckley, who in my eyes is God, maybe Jolley needs to have some humility and ask him for some guidance, after all he has managed over 500 more games than Jolley to date.
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rancido
October 20, 2019, 4:06pm Report to Moderator

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To me it seems there is always something amiss in the background.

The managers come in, all guns blazing and predicting an exciting future, they call us a big club for this level and usually comment on the great support, particularly away from home. They all know BP is a difficult place to come for the opposition.

Look how excited Jolley was when he spoke after the Notts game when we avoided the drop.

Yet every manager over the past nearly two decades (maybe apart from Slade Mk 1) have struggled to make an impact.

I wonder why that is? Do they realise after a short time they have been sold a pup, and have more or less an impossible job? Then they start to get ratty, and look for arguments. They have a pop at the crowd, or the media.

Look at yesterdays players - our two big signings Hanson and Green both signed 5 years too late. Everything seems reactive not proactive.  

Somebody behind me yesterday said our club looks like the Phoenix Nights of the football world - every club even the very small ones seem better organised.Everything is stale, old or cheap or all three.

If Jolley goes, if he has lost the dressing room and he has lost that initial enthusiasm then we start again with another new manager all guns blazing...  


This is Jolley's team. Nothing to do with the Board or the Club. He signs the players, picks the squad and sets them up. I thought he would be good for town and still think he could be but he does over think things.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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Grantham_Mariner
October 20, 2019, 4:08pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from The Old Codger
There’s no excuses now for MJ. His team, his staff so he either picks a system and a team and starts winning or it’s time to start all over again.

My opinion is that he feels duty bound to pick certain players. Ohman is the prime example. No way should he be starting ahead of either Davis or Pollock. He gives away cheap free kicks, can’t pass and is yellow carded most games.


2 yellows in 8 starts this season ! hardly most games!

Rest I agree with....


If the football is bad you can always watch the gulls.
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CodHead
October 20, 2019, 4:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from wigworld


We've had at least 3 other managers in the last 15 years who've done worse.



We took a chance on Jolley


'But not the Imps, because they’re s***!'

'Van Veen, the Ginger Pig!'
Ian Holloway
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Northbank Mariner
October 20, 2019, 4:22pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Gaffer58
To be honest Jolley is doing a reasonable job, not great but not a disaster, he just needs to learn when his team and style win a game not to think too hard for the next game and stick to what is working, then the players know that if they do their job they keep their place. Pollock is a fine example, in a winning team, does nothing wrong but gets dropped for the next game, his confidence just gets crushed. As people mention Buckley, who in my eyes is God, maybe Jolley needs to have some humility and ask him for some guidance, after all he has managed over 500 more games than Jolley to date.


And that what we all said last year...how many times can we use the same excuses of " give him time, he's still learning his trade"..because from what I'm watching he's not learning anything...
If anything he's showing an immense amount of arrogance if you ask me. You can't tell me he's that stupid he can't see where he's getting in wrong?....
As I've said before, stick to the same team, the same style and don't worry about your opponent...worked pretty well for Leicester!!!
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lew chaterleys lover
October 20, 2019, 4:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from rancido


This is Jolley's team. Nothing to do with the Board or the Club. He signs the players, picks the squad and sets them up. I thought he would be good for town and still think he could be but he does over think things.


Not for the first time you have misunderstood the point I am making. ALL the managers have struggled, despite enthusiastic starts. What is fundamentally wrong with the club that makes this so?
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Ipswin
October 20, 2019, 4:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner

" give him time, he's still learning his trade"


This infers that one day in the future (be it near or far away) Jolley is going to become a good manager, it does not necessarily follow I'm afraid his current performance might well be the best he ever achieves



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

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Ipswin
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Not for the first time you have misunderstood the point I am making. ALL the managers have struggled, despite enthusiastic starts. What is fundamentally wrong with the club that makes this so?


We have had a succession of shite managers inheriting a shite squad to which they have added even more shite. We are average at best, a lower 4th division club. End of



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
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Northbank Mariner
October 20, 2019, 4:43pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ipswin


This infers that one day in the future (be it near or far away) Jolley is going to become a good manager, it does not necessarily follow I'm afraid his current performance might well be the best he ever achieves



My point exactly 'swin....he's had time and leant nothing in my eyes, as a manager I don't think he's cutting the mustard, appears he's probably good as youth coach but not a senior team manager, in the same mould as Neil Woods to me..
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The Old Codger
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Quoted from Ipswin


We have had a succession of shite managers inheriting a shite squad to which they have added even more shite. We are average at best, a lower 4th division club. End of



Any idea as to why we may have become so shite? I know you have become a keen supporter of the current board.
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grimsby pete
October 20, 2019, 4:49pm Report to Moderator

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The reaction on here when the team sheet came out told the rest of us he had made another blunder in his selection of  square pegs and round holes.

If we who have no bits of paper telling everyone we know what we are doing why can't  he see what is obvious to the rest of us.?


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denni266
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I dont think we have bad players. and we have got better players here this year,, not world beaters but decent players .But if you keep swapping them about and playing them in the wrong places , dropping players that have done well plus   [ square pegs in round holes ] you are going to upset the balance and the players will lose confidence and start to not want the ball. Jolley has got to learn that you play the best players in the correct place to get the best chance of a win and not pick players because they are your favorite m8. we had a great win at exeter  and he goes and changes it , shows how bad and far off he is at being a manager
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Poojah
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I’d be interested to know what the official expectations are within the club itself. Whether that’s as clear cut as ‘finish in position x’ or above I wouldn’t know, but surely any senior manager in any role (football related or otherwise) will have a target against which he or she is measured.

My worry is that despite having top third attendances for this league, we probably have a bottom third budget - a result of us refusing to stretch ourselves financiallly as much as other clubs.

Whether you perceive that as prudent or unambitious isn’t really the point. If expectations should align with budget, and it seems only fair that they should, can you keep sacking managers every time they don’t significantly overachieve?

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t enjoy yesterday one bit and it seems to me along with everyone else that the manager made a series of selection and tactical clangers. But if we have the 17th biggest budget in the league, is sacking the manager necessarily the solution to getting us seriously challenging for promotion?


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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The Old Codger
October 20, 2019, 5:12pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Poojah
I’d be interested to know what the official expectations are within the club itself. Whether that’s as clear cut as ‘finish in position x’ or above I wouldn’t know, but surely any senior manager in any role (football related or otherwise) will have a target against which he or she is measured.

My worry is that despite having top third attendances for this league, we probably have a bottom third budget - a result of us refusing to stretch ourselves financiallly as much as other clubs.

Whether you perceive that as prudent or unambitious isn’t really the point. If expectations should align with budget, and it seems only fair that they should, can you keep sacking managers every time they don’t significantly overachieve?

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t enjoy yesterday one bit and it seems to me along with everyone else that the manager made a series of selection and tactical changers. But if we have the 17th biggest budget in the league, is sacking the manager necessarily the solution to getting is seriously challenging for promotion?


All very valid. As usual questions that our current custodians won’t answer because they’re repetitions of similar questions from the last God knows how long. Someone earlier described us as looking like Phoenix Nights- all very true. Too true.
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smokey111
October 20, 2019, 5:27pm Report to Moderator
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We have had a succession of shite managers inheriting a shite squad to which they have added even more shite. We are average at best, a lower 4th division club. End of

[/quote]

Might as well give it to Steve Wraith then. I think he got a Sunday League side promoted a few years ago.
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Ipswin
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Quoted from Poojah
I’d be interested to know what the official expectations are within the club itself. Whether that’s as clear cut as ‘finish in position x’ or above I wouldn’t know, but surely any senior manager in any role (football related or otherwise) will have a target against which he or she is measured.

My worry is that despite having top third attendances for this league, we probably have a bottom third budget - a result of us refusing to stretch ourselves financiallly as much as other clubs.

Whether you perceive that as prudent or unambitious isn’t really the point. If expectations should align with budget, and it seems only fair that they should, can you keep sacking managers every time they don’t significantly overachieve?

Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t enjoy yesterday one bit and it seems to me along with everyone else that the manager made a series of selection and tactical changers. But if we have the 17th biggest budget in the league, is sacking the manager necessarily the solution to getting is seriously challenging for promotion?



It's a chicken and egg scenario though isn't it? Who in his right mind is going to entrust someone as inexperieced as Jolley with a big budget?


Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

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Ipswin
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Quoted from smokey111


We have had a succession of shite managers inheriting a shite squad to which they have added even more shite. We are average at best, a lower 4th division club. End of



Might as well give it to Steve Wraith then. I think he got a Sunday League side promoted a few years ago.
[/quote]

He's won more than Jolley then



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

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HertsGTFC
October 20, 2019, 5:39pm Report to Moderator

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I think people would feel a little better if MJ was a little more magnanimous.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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The Old Codger
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Quoted from Ipswin



It's a chicken and egg scenario though isn't it? Who in his right mind is going to entrust someone as inexperieced as Jolley with a big budget?


He’s more experienced than Woods, Rodger or Bignot.
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Ipswin
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Quoted from The Old Codger


He’s more experienced than Woods, Rodger or Bignot.


And they were crap too

Perhaps thats the answer to why we are shite, we never have a manger fit to handle / or risk handing a decent budget to



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

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The Old Codger
October 20, 2019, 5:52pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Ipswin


And they were crap too

Perhaps thats the answer to why we are shite, we never have a manger fit to handle / or risk handing a decent budget to



Another question for the custodians?
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Poojah
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Quoted from Ipswin



It's a chicken and egg scenario though isn't it? Who in his right mind is going to entrust someone as inexperieced as Jolley with a big budget?


It’s probably more complex than that in truth. Who with experience and proven ability is going to entrust their reputation and CV to Grimsby Town (and all the madness that comes with it)?

Russell Slade?


A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner.
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Ipswin
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Quoted from Poojah


It’s probably more complex than that in truth. Who with experience and proven ability is going to entrust their reputation and CV to Grimsby Town (and all the madness that comes with it)?

Russell Slade?


I'm not the right person to answer that, the last manager I rated / liked was Lennie Lawrence (awaits endless abuse)



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

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promotion plaice
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Never thought I would say it but I'd have Hurst back if he gets the sack at Scunny, not that it's going to happen and Jolley still has my full support for now.


Sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things that no-one can imagine
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Northbank Mariner
October 20, 2019, 6:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from promotion plaice

Never thought I would say it but I'd have Hurst back if he gets the sack at Scunny, not that it's going to happen and Jolley still has my full support for now.


Don't think I'd want Hurst back, but I will give Jolley 2 games to impress me, if we play awful again I'll be on that "Jolley out" bandwagon like a rat up a drainpipe if I'm honest ..
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Lincoln Mariner 56
October 20, 2019, 7:05pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from HertsGTFC
I think people would feel a little better if MJ was a little more magnanimous.


Nail on head for me. I have said previously that it would have been good to hear him explain in the summer what he had learned from his first full season in Management, why he gave up on his his intended 3-5-2 at the start of the season and how he was to adapt to meet the needs of L2.

Nothing wrong with saying after a game that he got the starting eleven and tactics wrong and what he did during the game to address things. We all attend matches and have our own view and he is known to do this when it works e.g. Exeter away and I recall Bury at home last year when players just let one of their guys stroll out with the ball despite the crowd going crazy. Never hear this when we lose than its Clifton didn’t do what we told him to !
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smokey111
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Quoted from Ipswin


Might as well give it to Steve Wraith then. I think he got a Sunday League side promoted a few years ago.


He's won more than Jolley then

[/quote]

Haha....fair point Swin....the 70s mullet would have to go though!

Without stating the obvious, the frustration is the glimpses shown. I have said it before, but Hanson can play on the deck and is mobile for his size. I don't think him being on the pitch limits us to 'plan A'.

Next week is absolutely pivotal for MJ. If there is no reaction to a 4 nil home defeat then the fat lady might be reaching for the corsodyl!!!!
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TownSNAFU5
October 20, 2019, 7:45pm Report to Moderator
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Jolley doesn’t get the need to admit errors and be honest about his managerial mistakes - and his teams’ mistakes.

He also does not see that this approach annoys fans and does not encourage them to warm to him.

He has been unlucky with Max Wright getting injured.  We have one else to step into his role.

Harry Clifton has also been off-form this season and has not continued his development.  These 2 factors do not help him.
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Freemoash88
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It won't happen nor do I want Jolley to leave. but... If i had one person it would be Ian Holloway. The blokes stated numerous times he's not bothered what league he just wants a challenge and to build a club given time.
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Freemoash88
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It won't happen nor do I want Jolley to leave. but... If i had one person it would be Ian Holloway. The blokes stated numerous times he's not bothered what league he just wants a challenge and to build a club given time.
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rancido
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Not for the first time you have misunderstood the point I am making. ALL the managers have struggled, despite enthusiastic starts. What is fundamentally wrong with the club that makes this so?



I've not misunderstood anything. You seem to imply that the political background to the running of the club is a deciding factor on how the team performs. The point I am  making is that the manager brings the players in that he thinks will do a job. He coaches them in how he wants them to play. He picks a team plus subs for a specific game and tells them to play to a formation that HE thinks will get a result. If they fail then surely , regardless of whatever is going on in the background of the running of the club, he must take responsibility for that. Obviously some players might not be performing at their best but a manager should see that as the game progresses and be prepared to take action accordingly. Most of the fans and posters on here seem to think that the squad we have is fairly good but what is in contention is MJ's constant changing of players , especially playing some in roles that appear to not bring out their best. My opinion is that MJ over thinks his approach too much and should stick to certain fundamental basics of the game. A settled back four would be a start with a regular centre back pairing. Stop this " apparent " zone defending and revert to man-for-man , especially in set pieces. Leave a man up front when defending corners and dangerous set pieces.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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RichMariner
October 21, 2019, 11:38am Report to Moderator
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I appreciate that the board can't control what tactics MJ deploys on a match day, and they can't control what subs he makes, or what formation he plays, but the board — like any CEO of a business, really — are a reflection of what happens on the pitch.

If we're not clear in direction off the pitch then, ultimately, we won't be clear on it. Philosophies and stuff like that are ironed out between the manager and the board from the outset.

Basically, I have an issue with someone at work. I think they're a male private head but I know they're not a male private head. They just act like a male private head because they know their manager — someone that ultimately approves their work — is a male private head.

But that boss might not be a male private head. It could be that their boss, or director, is a male private head because they're anticipating the male private head behaviour of their boss, who happens to run the company.

Everything leads back to the top. I agree, in the minutiae of day-to-day stuff it doesn't seem possible that the board can be blamed for a bad result at home to Leyton Orient.

But Jolley works in an environment where there's a clear hierarchy, a clear structure, and he knows as well as we all do that he's under pressure every single day of the week to take this club forward. That pressure is there from the board and the fans (we're all responsible).

It's up to the board to appoint someone who can work effectively under the pressure they set. Jolley is human, and will be making decisions while trying to anticipate how they'll go down in the boardroom. That pressure will naturally guide his way of thinking, from the wider issues of signings, to the narrower issues like choosing a team or making a sub for any given match.

This hierarchy is necessary. People need policing, otherwise it'd be a free-for-all. But you've got to make sure those in power are held to account, even if the thing 'at the bottom' doesn't seem connected. Because ultimately it's the person at the top that sets the agenda.


"Don't shine that light in my face, mate - I've just lost a pint of blood."
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Malta_Mariner_90
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Quoted from TownSNAFU5


He has been unlucky with Max Wright getting injured.  We have one else to step into his role.



We have nobody to step into that role because Jolley did not sign any wingers and other than the emergency signing of Pringle last season has not signed any since he has been here.

For me it is pretty remarkable that you sign Hanson and yet you do not sign players who can get good crosses into the box for him.

I am beginning to think he likes to make life harder than it needs to be.

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diehardmariner
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But he was the best manager in the world a few weeks ago?

Saturday was shite, absolute shite.  Jolley needs to start learning from his mistakes and learn from them fast.  He needs to decide on a footballing philosophy for the club and embed it quickly.

But let's stop this hero to zero crap every five minutes, it's embarrassing.  
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fishboyUTM
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Jolley is doing a poor job, no doubt at all.

He has to be instructing the players to bypass midfield to play off Hanson, has to be or why would they do it? It's okay playing it up to a target man and playing off him, but not from those areas in the air. The lads to the left and right of him are rarely close enough to have a chance with his flick ons. If you are going to play 4-3-3, and it is a very fluid formation then you can't play it the way we do.

If you are going to play it from the back to Hanson, then you must a) Sacrifice some width and get the inside forwards closer to the target man. Or b) Play it into his feet and play off him. Whacking it in the air to him is ineffective. 4-3-3 is fine if you are using the width which means getting the ball wide to the inside forwards, the midfield (or 1 or 2 of the 3 - another big problem is the midfield three as too deep allowing the opposition unchallenged posession in front of their defence) up with the play, then you can deliver balls from wide as close to the byline as possible to give Hanson a chance of using his strength in the air.

We are not getting balls into him from wide positions. Tactically, we are not giving him or ourselves a chance and the opposition are just letting Hanson win the flick ons then just picking up the second ball. These tactics have to be down to the manager, either that or they are not listening to him. Either way, he isn't doing his job and questions should be asked. I am sick to death of taking two steps forwards and three steps back. All the time, year after year. We have the basis of a good side, but we have gone to excrement in double quick time.
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rancido
October 21, 2019, 5:29pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from RichMariner
I appreciate that the board can't control what tactics MJ deploys on a match day, and they can't control what subs he makes, or what formation he plays, but the board — like any CEO of a business, really — are a reflection of what happens on the pitch.

If we're not clear in direction off the pitch then, ultimately, we won't be clear on it. Philosophies and stuff like that are ironed out between the manager and the board from the outset.

Basically, I have an issue with someone at work. I think they're a male private head but I know they're not a male private head. They just act like a male private head because they know their manager — someone that ultimately approves their work — is a male private head.

But that boss might not be a male private head. It could be that their boss, or director, is a male private head because they're anticipating the male private head behaviour of their boss, who happens to run the company.

Everything leads back to the top. I agree, in the minutiae of day-to-day stuff it doesn't seem possible that the board can be blamed for a bad result at home to Leyton Orient.

But Jolley works in an environment where there's a clear hierarchy, a clear structure, and he knows as well as we all do that he's under pressure every single day of the week to take this club forward. That pressure is there from the board and the fans (we're all responsible).

It's up to the board to appoint someone who can work effectively under the pressure they set. Jolley is human, and will be making decisions while trying to anticipate how they'll go down in the boardroom. That pressure will naturally guide his way of thinking, from the wider issues of signings, to the narrower issues like choosing a team or making a sub for any given match.

This hierarchy is necessary. People need policing, otherwise it'd be a free-for-all. But you've got to make sure those in power are held to account, even if the thing 'at the bottom' doesn't seem connected. Because ultimately it's the person at the top that sets the agenda.



I agree that some things in the " administrative " side of the club can affect things at a more grass roots level but not as much as some seem to imply. As I understand it the Boardroom level at Bury was in turmoil last season but that didn't stop them getting promoted. Yes, maybe there were some " allegedly " wrong things going on but it didn't stop the team from performing.


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
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Thedonisthedon
October 21, 2019, 7:07pm Report to Moderator
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Hereford manager, then we'd realise what we are missing.
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Thedonisthedon
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Quoted from rancido



I agree that some things in the " administrative " side of the club can affect things at a more grass roots level but not as much as some seem to imply. As I understand it the Boardroom level at Bury was in turmoil last season but that didn't stop them getting promoted. Yes, maybe there were some " allegedly " wrong things going on but it didn't stop the team from performing.


And where are they now?
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barralad
October 22, 2019, 12:29am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from diehardmariner
But he was the best manager in the world a few weeks ago?

Saturday was shite, absolute shite.  Jolley needs to start learning from his mistakes and learn from them fast.  He needs to decide on a footballing philosophy for the club and embed it quickly.

But let's stop this hero to zero crap every five minutes, it's embarrassing.  


The best post on this thread by a country mile. It's like flipping "buzz word bingo"...first out of the blocks was the old "has he lost the dressing room" followed as surely as night follows day with the usual suspects citing failures at Board level as the reason for our continued time in the doldrums. Make no mistake about it-Saturday was probably the worst home display of Jolley's time here yet even in that it was fine margins. On another day we'd have been 3-2 up within 20 minutes of the start of the second half.  I couldn't have been more pi**ed off after the game on Saturday but reading this thread and the multiple others saying pretty much the same thing I'm not at all sure that it's only Jolley who might be over thinking things!!


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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monkeyboy
October 22, 2019, 6:25am Report to Moderator
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It does seem a tad over the top calling for his head to be fair.

See what we have in our squad is a bunch of average league 2 players, that is pretty much it. Couple of good ones and dare i say it a few not so good ones. So taking that into account and the fact that even after 3 losses on the trot we are still only 3 points from the play offs would suggest that in this league most of the teams are in similar position of being very inconsistent.
Also given the fact that Mr Jolley still does not appear to have a great budget, im hoping he has not used it all and was saving a few pennies for the transfer window, its plain to see we need a few more players in midfield.

I trust Jolley to get it right but im not expecting it quick, he has built a better squad but with the level of budget at his disposal it takes time. Stop panicking!!
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Abdul19
October 22, 2019, 7:55am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from barralad


The best post on this thread by a country mile. It's like flipping "buzz word bingo"...first out of the blocks was the old "has he lost the dressing room"


He should be replaced by someone who "knows the club"


“I hit the ball as though it owed me money.”
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Rik e B
October 22, 2019, 12:49pm Report to Moderator

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I agree it's all a bit hasty!
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Black_and_White_Bear
October 24, 2019, 12:20pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from fishboyUTM
Jolley is doing a poor job, no doubt at all.

He has to be instructing the players to bypass midfield to play off Hanson, has to be or why would they do it? It's okay playing it up to a target man and playing off him, but not from those areas in the air. The lads to the left and right of him are rarely close enough to have a chance with his flick ons. If you are going to play 4-3-3, and it is a very fluid formation then you can't play it the way we do.

If you are going to play it from the back to Hanson, then you must a) Sacrifice some width and get the inside forwards closer to the target man. Or b) Play it into his feet and play off him. Whacking it in the air to him is ineffective. 4-3-3 is fine if you are using the width which means getting the ball wide to the inside forwards, the midfield (or 1 or 2 of the 3 - another big problem is the midfield three as too deep allowing the opposition unchallenged posession in front of their defence) up with the play, then you can deliver balls from wide as close to the byline as possible to give Hanson a chance of using his strength in the air.

We are not getting balls into him from wide positions. Tactically, we are not giving him or ourselves a chance and the opposition are just letting Hanson win the flick ons then just picking up the second ball. These tactics have to be down to the manager, either that or they are not listening to him. Either way, he isn't doing his job and questions should be asked. I am sick to death of taking two steps forwards and three steps back. All the time, year after year. We have the basis of a good side, but we have gone to excrement in double quick time.


And you would know better than a man who is one of only 16 Managers in the UK who holds the UEFA Pro Licence, the highest-level managerial qualification in association football in Europe.  I doubt very much that he need any advice from you.



STABILIS
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cannylad68
October 24, 2019, 12:42pm Report to Moderator
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What do you need to have to pass a UEFA PRO Licence?

Is it just brains?

Only asking.
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grimsby pete
October 24, 2019, 12:57pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from cannylad68
What do you need to have to pass a UEFA PRO Licence?

Is it just brains?

Only asking.


No different to any other qualification  you need the ability to remember things.

That's why you do not see many 70 year olds at university    


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                           65 Years following the Town
                            Ian Holloway's  Black and White Army.
                                                UTMM

 
                            
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Northbank Mariner
October 24, 2019, 1:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from cannylad68
What do you need to have to pass a UEFA PRO Licence?

Is it just brains?

Only asking.


I worked with an electrician with a 2:1 masters in electrical engineering...
He had a nickname...
"Academically brilliant, practically...useless"...
All I am saying is you can gain the highest qualification you like but if you cannot put into practice then it's as much use as a chocolate fireguard...
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Abdul19
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It's not the snappiest nickname  


“I hit the ball as though it owed me money.”
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Civvy at last
October 24, 2019, 1:35pm Report to Moderator

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And you would know better than a man who is one of only 16 Managers in the UK who holds the UEFA Pro Licence, the highest-level managerial qualification in association football in Europe.  I doubt very much that he need any advice from you.



I don’t want Jolley out in the slightest.

But using your yardstick he should be managing a lot lot higher then ?????  


The wife was going away for a girly weekend.
I jokingly remarked  'I don't know whether to spend it watching porn or watching football'
'you may as well spend it watching porn' she replied
That's understanding darling what makes you say that? I asked

She said 'Well you already know how to play football'  
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Ipswin
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I passed my driving test and got a licence long before I got a car and when I did I'm sure I was a bloody awful driver for some considerable time


Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
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lew chaterleys lover
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And you would know better than a man who is one of only 16 Managers in the UK who holds the UEFA Pro Licence, the highest-level managerial qualification in association football in Europe.  I doubt very much that he need any advice from you.



I wonder why we have not seen much if any tactical nous then? Seems a bit odd that a man so highly qualified cannot seem to get attacking players in the box, have a non-competitive midfield lacking in creativity, and very few chances created for the strikers.

Budget no doubt comes in to it, because we don't get the better players, but these players, on paper at least are better than last years so why isn't he getting better performances?
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Northbank Mariner
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Quoted from Ipswin
I passed my driving test and got a licence long before I got a car and when I did I'm sure I was a bloody awful driver for some considerable time


But I bet you thought you was Stirling Moss??......
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Ipswin
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


But I bet you thought you was Stirling Moss??......


Many many times (still do occasionally!)



Well I did try to tell you all Jolley was a mistake

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse.....=public_profile_post
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LondonMariner43
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After the Exeter game (and on other occasions) posters on here have been saying how great we are.  Now we are terrible.  Jolley is the first to say that neither extreme is true.

In the squad we have 5 types of player.

1. Solid players who have been around for years - Macca!

2. Young players that MJ is bringing through into the first team in a careful way but avoiding playing them too much too soon.  In this respect Jolley is being very sensible even if it annoys some fans when Pollock or Wright etc don’t play every week.  We have more young, local, exciting players than we have had for years and that has to be a good thing but it takes time and players dip in and out of form and favor, but with Pollock, Wright, Rose and maybe Clifton and Vernam we have the foundation for a team of the future.  And more to come with Buckley, Burrell etc.

3. Players brought in by MJ who have become stalwarts if the team - Hendrie, Hessenthaler, Ohman - who will play nearly every game If fit.

4. Players brought in previously by MJ who haven’t worked out - not many of these but maybe Ring is in that category now.  There will always be some of these but I’d say MJ has done ok in this respect.

5. Players who are new this season.  Most have impressed on some occasions and some more than others.  It will take time for them to fit in and for MJ to learn how to get the best out of them.  However with the budget he probably has, he seems to have done an ok job.

Overall, I think MJ is managing well in each of these groups.  Tactically he has had some success and some failures and probably on some days the players haven’t performed how he wanted.  We’ve have some good luck and some bad luck.  In particular, losing Wright and Robson to injury has been unfortunate.  

We are mid table and I think most people said at the start that top half with a chance of the play offs was what they hoped for this year, and that is where we have been for 90% of this season so far.

Let’s try and be a bit more proportionate!
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TownSNAFU5
October 24, 2019, 2:51pm Report to Moderator
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Does the manager make the best use of his playing resources?  I would say “no” for quite a few matches.  Does Jolley learn from his mistakes?  Again, sometimes not.

These are key issues that can be improved.  











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Lincoln Mariner 56
October 24, 2019, 4:25pm Report to Moderator
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Big question for me remains what is MJ’s preferred style of play?

Most teams have an identity and recruit the appropriate players to deliver that approach with back up players who can a) continue to deliver that style when teammates are injured, suspended and/or out of form plus the odd player who allows for Plan B where required.

After 18 months I really don’t know what MJ is trying to achieve on the pitch other than the obvious of winning games. We rarely, if ever, dominate home games and very rarely have periods of extended pressure on the opposition and struggle to maintain possession.

Those first home games appeared we were getting an increased number of crosses in the box and getting additional players in and around the penalty area to try and capitalise on this approach, however, that lasted about three or four games and has been replaced by a non-existent style of play which has been pretty average and frankly boring to watch.

Accept losing Robson & Wright May have hampered things but when he was planning his season did he have these two as key elements of his preferred style? I would suggest not but he would not be the first manager to stumble upon his best eleven.

Nucleus of players is there with two or three additional signings an opportunity to move further forward but to do so I would suggest MJ needs to get a playing style and commit to it.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
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What is Cheltenham’s budget this year? In his GT interview Jolley praises Duff for their progress from virtually bottom to virtually top in a year. If Duff can do it, why can’t Jolley?


"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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Northbank Mariner
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What is Cheltenham’s budget this year? In his GT interview Jolley praises Duff for their progress from virtually bottom to virtually top in a year. If Duff can do it, why can’t Jolley?


Maybe because Jolley is a Duff???🤔🤔
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Posh Harry
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Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56
Big question for me remains what is MJ’s preferred style of play?

Most teams have an identity and recruit the appropriate players to deliver that approach with back up players who can a) continue to deliver that style when teammates are injured, suspended and/or out of form plus the odd player who allows for Plan B where required.

After 18 months I really don’t know what MJ is trying to achieve on the pitch other than the obvious of winning games. We rarely, if ever, dominate home games and very rarely have periods of extended pressure on the opposition and struggle to maintain possession.

Those first home games appeared we were getting an increased number of crosses in the box and getting additional players in and around the penalty area to try and capitalise on this approach, however, that lasted about three or four games and has been replaced by a non-existent style of play which has been pretty average and frankly boring to watch.

Accept losing Robson & Wright May have hampered things but when he was planning his season did he have these two as key elements of his preferred style? I would suggest not but he would not be the first manager to stumble upon his best eleven.

Nucleus of players is there with two or three additional signings an opportunity to move further forward but to do so I would suggest MJ needs to get a playing style and commit to it.


Without being certain I suspect that Jolley’s ideal style of play is what he said when he walked through the door, high tempo high press.

I also think that he has realised that at our level it is difficult to get the players to be able to do this and therefore he is trying to adapt from his ideal, to what he feels will work. Whether we like it or not, a more direct style of play usually (not always) is the best way of being successful without a large playing budget.

I doubt he has done this before and so is making mistakes like we all do, but I think he deserves the time to try and get it right. Not many object to direct football if we are winning games. Ideally we would all like to football the Buckley way, but lots got bored of even that style (not me by the way) so you cannot please all of the people all of the time.

We won at Exeter because we were able to play on the counter attack with quick players. That suited the opposition at the time. People were saying that those same players should have played against Mansfield, a team who were on a bad run, playing poorly and under pressure. They were never going to be all over us and attacking at every opportunity under those circumstances, they were going to try and snatch a win at all costs and we were not going to be able to get anywhere against them with a counter attacking style. I know the option he tried didn’t work, but I understand why he went back to Hansen and that style, because he thought that was the best chance of getting a win. It didn’t happen but reports indicate we shouldn’t have lost either. Then we have 2 poor games and then he does whatever he needed to do to get a result, a la Mansfield, against Cambridge, and we could of easily snatched a win but it didn’t happen.

He is probably trying to over think some games but it doesn’t look like he is stubborn and only prepared to do the same thing week in week out. Whether that will work with these players is anyone’s guess, but he is in a better position than any of us to judge that because he is with them day in day out.

Give him a break and let him get on with it for now at least.

UTFM
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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from Northbank Mariner
So you're asking if people would accept a serial loser as a manager?....limbrick took working down, he gets sacked and the next season they storm the league ...it's a no from me...
If Jolley was to go if be asking Dave Moore to take a caretaker role on then really take our time finding a new manager, who that would be, not really sure who we could attract with the size of our budget....
To be honest, when I look at what Sol Campbell did with Macclesfield I'd be half tempted but not completely behind the appointment..


You've been living in Yorkshire too long if that's how you pronounce Woking.

(or were you thinking of Workington?   ).


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Quoted from LondonMariner43


After the Exeter game (and on other occasions) posters on here have been saying how great we are.



Are there many that are / were saying we are great?

I went to Oldham, Salford, Stevenage, saw the home games against Crewe, Mansfield and Leyton Orient and on those games we looked a poor side, but I went to Exeter and Cambridge and thought we played very well, especially against Exeter.

I think what recent games have shown us is that we are not looking good enough to sustain a promotion challenge especially with swapping the team about so much.

I think that MJ should stick to playing his best players and not keep changing the side after too much analysing of what the opposition are likely to do.  

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KingstonMariner
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Who are his best players?


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
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Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
Who are his best players?


Nobody knows 😀


                           Over 33 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                           65 Years following the Town
                            Ian Holloway's  Black and White Army.
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Quoted from CodHead


We took a chance on Jolley


"Take a Chance on me "      J.L.S. are no longer !
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FFS!!! fishy at it's finest.

Toxic town fc
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Quoted from chaos33


Nobody knows, least of all him.


Well people are saying he should play his best team. If you’re saying no one knows then it’s hardly useful advice is it?

‘Do something different, but I don’t know what.’


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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Well people are saying he should play his best team. If you’re saying no one knows then it’s hardly useful advice is it?

‘Do something different, but I don’t know what.’


What is his best team. Apart from Hess I think nearly all the other outfield players have had good and bad performances. I hear this expression "square pegs in round holes" used about some players roles but that doesn't explain bad passing, poor marking and wrong positioning demonstrated by some players. These are all basics that are coached into all outfield players regardless of whether they are defenders, midfielders or strikers.


The Future is Black & White.
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Quoted from rancido


What is his best team. Apart from Hess I think nearly all the other outfield players have had good and bad performances. I hear this expression "square pegs in round holes" used about some players roles but that doesn't explain bad passing, poor marking and wrong positioning demonstrated by some players. These are all basics that are coached into all outfield players regardless of whether they are defenders, midfielders or strikers.


I would disagree. It might not explain the bad passing but it goes some way to explaining bad marking and positioning. If you are playing an unfamiliar role it can add a fractional hesitation to your positioning as it isn't as instinctive and you have to think about it more. And that can be exposed. At league 2 level players are more likely to be making such positional mistakes anyway, playing an unfamiliar role will exacerbate it.

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Quoted from toontown


I would disagree. It might not explain the bad passing but it goes some way to explaining bad marking and positioning. If you are playing an unfamiliar role it can add a fractional hesitation to your positioning as it isn't as instinctive and you have to think about it more. And that can be exposed. At league 2 level players are more likely to be making such positional mistakes anyway, playing an unfamiliar role will exacerbate it.



I think you will find that a lot of young players are coached in various roles at all the professional clubs.


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darren9
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0 points this weekend. Another disappointing Saturday. #jolleyout


Twitter: @DarrenLeeNewman
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Quoted from darren9
0 points this weekend. Another disappointing Saturday. #jolleyout


Looking on the positive side you could say we didn't lose though.
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FishOutOfWater
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Quoted from Gaffer58


Looking on the positive side you could say we didn't lose though.


Falling down the league though and what did Jolley do about it yesterday? Nothing.... he needs to sort it out
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A fans collective should take over as there are many experts. I'd vote for Ipswin to be chairman. Well I'm off trick or treating tonight but have to be in early as it's school tomorrow. Half term over.
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golfer
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Pull another one-you're not old enough to go to school- but on 2nd thoughts-Swin-mm mm
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Gaffer58
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Quoted from Thedonisthedon
A fans collective should take over as there are many experts. I'd vote for Ipswin to be chairman. Well I'm off trick or treating tonight but have to be in early as it's school tomorrow. Half term over.


What do we need a chairman for, the club has flourished these last few years without one!!!!!!
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Quoted from rancido


What is his best team. Apart from Hess I think nearly all the other outfield players have had good and bad performances. I hear this expression "square pegs in round holes" used about some players roles but that doesn't explain bad passing, poor marking and wrong positioning demonstrated by some players. These are all basics that are coached into all outfield players regardless of whether they are defenders, midfielders or strikers.


Exactly! I agree.

Yes playing in the same positions week in week out helps people have a feeling for what their teammates are doing, but you don’t have to be a specialist to know what you need to do most of the time (there are plenty on here who seem to know). Half the time it’s players not taking responsibility or using their brains, not what team or formation the manager picks.


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Quoted from LondonMariner43
2. Young players that MJ is bringing through into the first team in a careful way but avoiding playing them too much too soon.  In this respect Jolley is being very sensible even if it annoys some fans when Pollock or Wright etc don’t play every week.  We have more young, local, exciting players than we have had for years and that has to be a good thing but it takes time and players dip in and out of form and favor, but with Pollock, Wright, Rose and maybe Clifton and Vernam we have the foundation for a team of the future.  And more to come with Buckley, Burrell etc


Wouldn’t count on him playing many games for us....


In Ollie we trust 🐟

UTMM
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