The benign debt

In the same way that administration was probably avoided a number of seasons back - see earlier post - if he was to call his loans back in at any time he could probably expect the same kind of return, if that. Time for someone / some group to start seriously consider looking at making either the right noises for a takeover / buy out or call the boards bluff on the matter surely? Can't keep moaning about this ad infinitum without some coherent plan.

Quoted from Bigdog

A couple of quick questions for you Pen Penfras..

It is obvious that the past fifteen years have been the worst sustained period in the club's history,  It has cost the club a lot of money, a lot of credibility to its standing in the league ladder, lost plenty of fans along the way, not kept up with the advancement of other similar sized clubs and put its loyal supporters through a lot of pain and anguish. For a person to be in control of all the major decision making, do you think that there should be some pecuniary cost to that individual or do you think he should have a free go and get his money back?

If there was a person or body who had a proven track record of running a football club successfully but didn't have any cash to invest. Would you prefer JF to step aside and let them get on with it or him to carry on as he is now?

You're kidding yourself if you think the £2m isn't a stumbling block of some kind as the club isn't even worth that. Even morally, it's an unmerited reward/refund for failure in performance..

As I just said, he did put money in through a share issue and isn't getting all his money back. I don't expect anybody to put millions into our football club, I want a self sufficient club that doesn't need to rely on somebody funding us and potentially pulling the carpet out at any point and leaving us screwed. I highly doubt he'll get back all his loans too.

Yes, I think it's time for a change. The current atmosphere is counterproductive. This atmosphere must filter through to the players and affect performances. I doubt the board still want to be here and read the abuse they get. We have somebody in John Elsom who was on the board and is now something like club president who has previous experience of running a football club. I'd be very happy to see more experienced people on the board that can help run the club and move it forwards. I'm sure the board would be happy with this too.

I'm not saying that £2 million isn't a stumbling block. I'm saying there's nobody out there willing to put that sort of money in. So the best that's going to happen is a change in personnel running the club, not a change in philosophy of how the club is being run. A change of owner/board will appease the disgruntled fans in the short term but, with the over reactions I'm seeing on social media and here, the good grace won't last long if on the pitch success isn't achieved within a couple of years. Even if the new owner put a lot of personal wealth in.

I think that there's an element in truth in every one of the recent ten posts or so.

In our present form with a deluded owner, a dinosaur of a manager, dwindling home gates and talented players not seeming like they want to play for us, I can't see too many teams in the Football League that we're head and shoulders above in status currently. That's the reality. How we have got to this position is well documented and how we are stuck in this position is well documented. Our club has been dumbed down so much over the past decade or so to match one person's ability and pocket, and yes, it looks like we will be a bottom feeder without radical change. I hate that thought, but it's me being practical.

It's also right that we could be a decent League One club pushing for the holy grail of Championship football. Would we need a new stadium or a massive influx of cash. Not necessarily on both counts. Lincoln look like they're going to do it with £350k extra investment, appointing the right manager and treating their fans as paying customers. Shrewsbury look like they're close to our holy grail by giving a decent manager the right backing and environment with gates that would be less than ours if we were in their position.

We know that we are being held back and scarily now seem to be regressing again by the lack of talent in one man's will to run a football club. JF is like one of those successful actresses that decides one day she wants to become a singer. She spends years and years releasing album after album, firing producer after producer, berating any fan who doesn't think she's got the sweetest sounding voice and still wonders why she's not a chart topping artist but is still prepared to prove everyone wrong when the stark truth is that she should have packed it in years ago and accepted that she was just a great actress.

Anyone got a fish factory for sale and take a benign loan as a deposit?

At any point did I use the word “never”? belief only gets you so far in football these days I’m afraid.

History actually counts for what you have achieved that’s why it’s termed as history.

Can history repeat itself in football terms? Yes definitely it does most seasons with a handful of wealthy clubs and some seasons with the less wealthy but rarely with the poorest.

Other than history nobody has yet to answer why we can consider ourselves “lower half of the championship top of league 1” level. I’d love us to be there but we’re not.

Before you come back with “what your saying is” as it’s a very tiresome phrase  I’ll be clear on what I’m saying whether people like it or not,

Do I like the current apathy? No

Do I want rid of the board? Nothing personal but if they persist in the way they operate which is delivering apathy yes?

Do I want us to play better football and win more? Yes

Do I believe we can hound Fenty out ? No

Can we ever have “fan ownership” at GTFC? I doubt it as we can’t even sing the same songs at the same time at some games

Do I believe endless threads about the same topics will support the point above? No, but those who want to be engratiated by their peer groups by posting stuff that’s “down with the kids” knock yourselves out, post what you like it’s a free country and we all need to respect that

Do I think the current non chairman has been the reason for our decline? Not completely but for all the good he’s done he’s done many things to self harm the club

Do I want rid of Slade - No but I am not convinced by him or Wilco

Do I think Slade has bought badly? I’m not sure what he had at his disposal but currently it’s definitely more duffers than diamonds

Do I think Osborne is playing a game to get a move ? I suspect so but hope I’m wrong

Do I think Jones is doing the same ? No

Do I think Hurst was decent and Bignot mental? Yes

Do we need to be lucky in the window? Definitely!

Do I think the club could move forward to better things? Yes of course but sadly only with more money being pumped in a change of ideas, complete unity, better players and a manager who is not just a safe pair of hands and a new stadium that’s not located on fantasy island!

I think that’s my current position on most of the endless tired and over worked topics a small amount of posters on here continually seem to drag out when they are bored with watching Jeremy Kyle and Hones Under The Hammer in a morning

Clear enough for you?

Quoted from Bigdog

I think that there's an element in truth in every one of the recent ten posts or so.

In our present form with a deluded owner, a dinosaur of a manager, dwindling home gates and talented players not seeming like they want to play for us, I can't see too many teams in the Football League that we're head and shoulders above in status currently. That's the reality. How we have got to this position is well documented and how we are stuck in this position is well documented. Our club has been dumbed down so much over the past decade or so to match one person's ability and pocket, and yes, it looks like we will be a bottom feeder without radical change. I hate that thought, but it's me being practical.

It's also right that we could be a decent League One club pushing for the holy grail of Championship football. Would we need a new stadium or a massive influx of cash. Not necessarily on both counts. Lincoln look like they're going to do it with £350k extra investment, appointing the right manager and treating their fans as paying customers. Shrewsbury look like they're close to our holy grail by giving a decent manager the right backing and environment with gates that would be less than ours if we were in their position.

We know that we are being held back and scarily now seem to be regressing again by the lack of talent in one man's will to run a football club. JF is like one of those successful actresses that decides one day she wants to become a singer. She spends years and years releasing album after album, firing producer after producer, berating any fan who doesn't think she's got the sweetest sounding voice and still wonders why she's not a chart topping artist but is still prepared to prove everyone wrong when the stark truth is that she should have packed it in years ago and accepted that she was just a great actress.

Anyone got a fish factory for sale and take a benign loan as a deposit?

I never thought I would see the non-chairman being compared to a successful actress.

Quoted from pen penfras

As I just said, he did put money in through a share issue and isn't getting all his money back. I don't expect anybody to put millions into our football club, I want a self sufficient club that doesn't need to rely on somebody funding us and potentially pulling the carpet out at any point and leaving us screwed. I highly doubt he'll get back all his loans too.

Yes, I think it's time for a change. The current atmosphere is counterproductive. This atmosphere must filter through to the players and affect performances. I doubt the board still want to be here and read the abuse they get. We have somebody in John Elsom who was on the board and is now something like club president who has previous experience of running a football club. I'd be very happy to see more experienced people on the board that can help run the club and move it forwards. I'm sure the board would be happy with this too.

I'm not saying that £2 million isn't a stumbling block. I'm saying there's nobody out there willing to put that sort of money in. So the best that's going to happen is a change in personnel running the club, not a change in philosophy of how the club is being run. A change of owner/board will appease the disgruntled fans in the short term but, with the over reactions I'm seeing on social media and here, the good grace won't last long if on the pitch success isn't achieved within a couple of years. Even if the new owner put a lot of personal wealth in.

Thank you for replying.

I agree with pretty much everything you say apart from a change in personnel should result in a change of philosophy, because that is what is needed. And also it's a common misconception that GTFC fans haven't got patience, dropping from the Championship, hanging around in the bottom tier for a few seasons and five years in non league and they still went to the bottom of the well in patience for OP. We can't base everything on the feelings and outpourings of the past eighteen months or so, because it's been a period when long standing tethers have been stretched to a magnified breaking point. I'm sure a fresh start would be given a considerable amount of patience and goodwill by the majority..

“And also it's a common misconception that GTFC fans haven't got patience, dropping from the Championship, hanging around in the bottom tier for a few seasons and five years in non league and they still went to the bottom of the well in patience for OP. We can't base everything on the feelings and outpourings of the past eighteen months or so, because it's been a period when long standing tethers have been stretched to a magnified breaking point. I'm sure a fresh start would be given a considerable amount of patience and goodwill by the majority..”

Great point!

The size of our club and the location of Grimsby and how much the area has been dragged down over the years, realistically we can't expect to be anywhere near the championship. We're a bog standard league 2 club who like 16+ others dream of a promotion to league 1. For me I'd be happy to sit around the top half of league 2 and show we're trying for those play offs even if we fail every year providing we are being entertained and giving it a go. The football in patches can be decent. The first 10 minutes of Accrington was exactly what I want from the club,  but for 70+ minutes of a game. Get the ball down and play football.
In regards to all this off the pitch stuff, I'm not sure what I believe but aslong as town don't get into anymore debt and don't go into administration I'd be happy (providing proper football is played). Maybe I'm not looking at the bigger picture, obviously I'd love success at my club but to what expense? A new stadium 9/10 is the beginning of things moving forward and progressing, but will that ever happen?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

At any point did I use the word “never”? belief only gets you so far in football these days I’m afraid.

History actually counts for what you have achieved that’s why it’s termed as history.

Can history repeat itself in football terms? Yes definitely it does most seasons with a handful of wealthy clubs and some seasons with the less wealthy but rarely with the poorest.

Other than history nobody has yet to answer why we can consider ourselves “lower half of the championship top of league 1” level. I’d love us to be there but we’re not.

Before you come back with “what your saying is” as it’s a very tiresome phrase  I’ll be clear on what I’m saying whether people like it or not,

Do I like the current apathy? No

Do I want rid of the board? Nothing personal but if they persist in the way they operate which is delivering apathy yes?

Do I want us to play better football and win more? Yes

Do I believe we can hound Fenty out ? No

Can we ever have “fan ownership” at GTFC? I doubt it as we can’t even sing the same songs at the same time at some games

Do I believe endless threads about the same topics will support the point above? No, but those who want to be engratiated by their peer groups by posting stuff that’s “down with the kids” knock yourselves out, post what you like it’s a free country and we all need to respect that

Do I think the current non chairman has been the reason for our decline? Not completely but for all the good he’s done he’s done many things to self harm the club

Do I want rid of Slade - No but I am not convinced by him or Wilco

Do I think Slade has bought badly? I’m not sure what he had at his disposal but currently it’s definitely more duffers than diamonds

Do I think Osborne is playing a game to get a move ? I suspect so but hope I’m wrong

Do I think Jones is doing the same ? No

Do I think Hurst was decent and Bignot mental? Yes

Do we need to be lucky in the window? Definitely!

Do I think the club could move forward to better things? Yes of course but sadly only with more money being pumped in a change of ideas, complete unity, better players and a manager who is not just a safe pair of hands and a new stadium that’s not located on fantasy island!

I think that’s my current position on most of the endless tired and over worked topics a small amount of posters on here continually seem to drag out when they are bored with watching Jeremy Kyle and Hones Under The Hammer in a morning

Clear enough for you?

I can't claim to be down with the kids but I'm pretty sure they don't spend their time debating the ins and outs of benign loans.

Gosh you have to dispair, why are people starting to talk this club down.

Just because one guy leant against a snooker table and said we overachieved before he took it on does not mean we have not been  (considerably) underachieving for the last 15 years.  Talk about trying to shape your place in history. I'd equate the JF years with what I'd call the lost decades.