The benign debt

Quoted from HertsGTFC

“We are easily a lower half Championship to top half league 1 team”

Lost track of all the bollox on this but whoever said the bit above is deluded...... what do you base this on?

Of course we are - easily. We have done it before and will do it again. Burton? Scunthorpe? Doncaster? and even Swansea and Bournemouth.

Our club has been run appallingly for so many years we have forgotten what we used to be like.

Edit - Shrewsbury?? Think about that - Shrewsbury which is about as exciting in football terms as...

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Of course we are - easily. We have done it before and will do it again. Burton? Scunthorpe? Doncaster? and even Swansea and Bournemouth.

Our club has been run appallingly for so many years we have forgotten what we used to be like.

Edit - Shrewsbury?? Think about that - Shrewsbury which is about as exciting in football terms as...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/wWrpMja.jpg[/img]

Quoted from Marinerz93

I base it on our history you obviously base your lack of belief on what we can achieve as you are happy with John Fenty's ambitions, I remember when this Town had a fighting spirit, the under dog giving it to the bigger clubs, some people are happy with being bottom feeders some believe we are better than that.

I remember when we where like that too and I want better. Rather then telling me what I believe read a few recent posts and you'll see that I am unhappy with the lack of ambition. If you base where you think you sit on history then Aston Villa are a great FA cup winning side and Coventry City are top flight material. History counts for nothing in sport

The only reason we need a sugar daddy, as it's been called, is to dismount Fenty and to get rid of his loans.  We don't don't need someone with millions to throw away, we need someone who knows how to run a business without alienating the customers and engaging the local businesses to get involved.  We should be looking to make money by selling players and not cut a loss every year.  We don't need millions piling into the club (ignoring the new stadium as GTFC aren't going to pay for that), we just need to live within our means.  If our means is league two then so be it.  

You just have to look towards Accrington Stanley to see a club that is efficient with its money and considering the size of their fanbase (no disrespect meant) they do bloody well for themselves. Scunthorpe with a similar fan base to our has survived and thrived at a higher level than us for far too long, without millions being pumped in until Swann came along.

This is a rough idea which I haven't looked too deep into and shoot me down if I'm speaking shite, but here goes.  Fenty has 43% (I believe, I can't be arsed to research the actual, but it's around there) of the shares, so, therefore, we only need to have 44% to gain a majority without having to offer to buy everyone else out. (Article 9?), So if everyone clubs together their shares, Trust (14%), Mike Parker (22%), The Mullens (6%) fans 5% (completely made up), then all we need is a competent board to run the show. We soon see how "benign" these loans are.

So simple eh, or maybe not.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I remember when we where like that too and I want better. Rather then telling me what I believe read a few recent posts and you'll see that I am unhappy with the lack of ambition. If you base where you think you sit on history then Aston Villa are a great FA cup winning side and Coventry City are top flight material. History counts for nothing in sport

So you are saying that Aston Villa will never win the FA cup again and that Coventry will never grace the top flight, on what grounds, the same grounds you believe Town will never be a bottom half Championship or top half League 1 team. History counts for one thing, what you are able to achieve as history often repeats itself. We dropped out of the league before getting back in, who knows what the future holds, belief in what we can achieve is what drives us.

Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis

The only reason we need a sugar daddy, as it's been called, is to dismount Fenty and to get rid of his loans.  We don't don't need someone with millions to throw away, we need someone who knows how to run a business without alienating the customers and engaging the local businesses to engage.  We should be looking to make money by selling players and not cut a loss every year.  We don't need millions piling into the club (ignoring the new stadium as GTFC aren't going to pay for that), we just need to live within our means.  If our means is league two then so be it.  

You just have to look towards Accrington Stanley to see a club that is efficient with its money and considering the size of their fanbase (no disrespect meant) they do bloody well for themselves. Scunthorpe with a similar fan base to our has survived and thrived at a higher level than us for far too long, without millions being pumped in until Swann came along.

This is a rough idea which I haven't look too deep into and shoot me down if I'm speaking shite, but here goes.  Fenty has 43% (I believe, I can't be arsed to research the actual, but it's around there) of the shares, so, therefore, we only need to have 43% to gain a majority without having to offer to buy everyone else out. (Article 9?), So if everyone clubs together their shares, Trust (14%), Mike Parker (22%), The Mullens (6%) fans 5% (completely made up), then all we need is a competent board to run the show. We soon see how "benign" these loans are.

So simple eh, or maybe not.

I'm too drunk and tired to analyse that properly, but it looks worthy of further study.

Actually, whilst it'd mean Fenty could be out voted by other shareholders, he's still the effective owner of the club because of his loans which are secured against the assets of the club. So effectively he's got us stitched up.

Nice one John.

This man will hold our club back forever, he's crumbled us to the ground and continue to do so, its desperate needs that this bloke is out the club for good, id even take us dropping to non league again to get him out and start again. I thought that when the trust was started it was to oppose against the likes of fenty and co (coffin dodgers) but look how quite easily he took the trusts money. He's like a modern day Mr Burns.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I'm too drunk and tired to analyse that properly, but it looks worthy of further study.

Actually, whilst it'd mean Fenty could be out voted by other shareholders, he's still the effective owner of the club because of his loans which are secured against the assets of the club. So effectively he's got us stitched up.

Nice one John.

Quoted from GTFC

Grimsby Town Football Club is owned by its shareholders.

The company is considered to be controlled by Mr J S Fenty by reason of his shareholdings and financial commitment to the company.

  

Fenty's loan doesn't attribute to ownership, they are the same as a bank loan, secured against the clubs assets but without interest being charged and a repayment plan.  We do run the risk of Fenty throwing all his toys out of the pram, and recalling his loans, but I'm not sure he could do it in one lump sum and we would have to agree to a payment plan.  Would he really ask for all the 2 million in one go, risking the club to go into administration, not what fan would do that?

I'm sure I'm missing something which means I'm talking shite.  

These are the kind of discussions the Trust should be having, draw up a 5-10 plan and run a campaign to get everyone involved, Op Promotion has shown what can be achieved.  Does the Trust have an objective? What's their long-term goal?

Quoted from Bigdog

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The board haven't backed the manager, they have allocated funds from income generated by the fans and generous benefactors like The Trust and Mike Parker. You make it sound like they're opening their own wallets which is definitely not the case. JF's loan has been static for years and has recently reduced. Pretty much £40m spent on our behalf since we were in the Championship and could have been a lot more if we hadn't fallen from grace.

The last manager that was anywhere near my first choice was Brian Laws. Never shouted for Groves, Rodger, Woods, Bignot, Newell, Buckley III, Slade I or II and there's a lot of other decisions that many fans wouldn't have made over the years and plenty more recently. A bit like saying that nobody could have done any better. Another myth built up over the years to mask failure.

Allocating a budget that is above the means of the club is backing the manager. How can it possibly be viewed as anything else? It often hasn't resulted in any success which is my point. Spending money does not guarantee success. There's a lot of factors that have to go your way to be successful and no small part is luck.

You can't punch above your weight eternally. If on the field success isn't met with a rise in match day income to keep you at that level, then you need a benefactor. The only one we've ever had is MP and he quickly realised that this football business isn't as easy as put money in and get success, then scarpered. I'm also fairly sure JF put a lot of money into the club under a share issue at some point (to pay off the tax bill?), but I can't find any articles that list specific numbers. Is that not funding the club?

Those managers wouldn't be everybody's first choice, but Groves, Newell, Buckley III and in particular Bignot were very well received appointments. Saying the board should do due dilligence is true, but what does that entail? Buckley and Newell had previous successes before we appointed them. Bignot spoke like a footballing genius and there are lots of articles saying how brilliant he was for Birmingham ladies and Solihull Moors. These people often speak very well publicly, so it's fair to assume they speak very well under interview conditions too.

Quoted from TheRealJohnLewis

  

Fenty's loan doesn't attribute to ownership, they are the same as a bank loan, secured against the clubs assets but without interest being charged and a repayment plan.  We do run the risk of Fenty throwing all his toys out of the pram, and recalling his loans, but I'm not sure he could do it in one lump sum and we would have to agree to a payment plan.  Would he really ask for all the 2 million in one go, risking the club to go into administration, not what fan would do that?

I'm sure I'm missing something which means I'm talking shite.  

These are the kind of discussions the Trust should be having, draw up a 5-10 plan and run a campaign to get everyone involved, Op Promotion has shown what can be achieved.  Does the Trust have an objective? What's their long-term goal?

Let's put the caveat in first - I admire the Trust and what it has achieved since it started. However the vote that handed back the shares to JSF basically undermined any authority that the Trust was likely to have. Yes, the Trust has a seat on the board, but to what effect? What authority has the Trust now got to formulate a plan for the future of GTFC? - JSF has all the aces and I'm sure he'll play them when he sees fit - not when the fans or the Trust tell him to.