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bax
November 6, 2017, 10:48am Report to Moderator
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The Trust held its AGM last week, minutes can be found here:

http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Mariners-Trust-2017-AGM-Minuts.pdf

Headline point is that Trust will be leading a supporter boycott of Stevenage next season. Also Herts Police hid behind Terrorism Act in refusing to answer questions via the Freedom of Information Act.


Current Vice Chairman of the Mariners Trust. Views my own.
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moosey_club
November 6, 2017, 12:45pm Report to Moderator
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So the trust actually lost money ?

Is the 30K an annual amount for a seat on the board ?   Thought the place on the board was secured by handing over the % of the Parker shares.


If 30k of the trusts fundraising is spent just on being allowed a seat on the board then considering the Trust dont really seem to be valued by the board, ie not consulted on the Checkatrade, no response received regards Stevenage, then is it value for money ?
Especially if you are then paying bills on top to another 32k.

Do all seat holders on the board have to pay 30k a year or is this a "trust special fee" ? (appreciate some may put in much more).


Seems a little one sided if you ask me.


                                                  
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Southwark Mariner
November 6, 2017, 12:53pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks for putting the documents online. It is appreciated.
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KingstonMariner
November 6, 2017, 1:40pm Report to Moderator
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Thanks Bax.



I think Moosey's question about whether other GTFC board have to pay in £30,000 a year needs to be answered by the Club really. I wonder if the club have anyone who monitors this message board and is able to help us get our facts right?


'no limits can be affixed to the power of organization to which a free and intelligent people may attain.'
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gaz57
November 6, 2017, 2:27pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from bax
The Trust held its AGM last week, minutes can be found here:

http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Mariners-Trust-2017-AGM-Minuts.pdf

Also Herts Police hid behind Terrorism Act in refusing to answer questions via the Freedom of Information Act.


A word with our MP and get her to ask a few questions in parliament would be a good idea, this is unacceptable.
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HertsGTFC
November 6, 2017, 2:30pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from KingstonMariner
Thanks Bax.



I think Moosey's question about whether other GTFC board have to pay in £30,000 a year needs to be answered by the Club really. I wonder if the club have anyone who monitors this message board and is able to help us get our facts right?


Agree with this, t's a good idea to "fgetyyourfactstraight" so if someone could clarify.


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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bax
November 6, 2017, 2:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from moosey_club
So the trust actually lost money ?

Is the 30K an annual amount for a seat on the board ?   Thought the place on the board was secured by handing over the % of the Parker shares.


If 30k of the trusts fundraising is spent just on being allowed a seat on the board then considering the Trust dont really seem to be valued by the board, ie not consulted on the Checkatrade, no response received regards Stevenage, then is it value for money ?
Especially if you are then paying bills on top to another 32k.

Do all seat holders on the board have to pay 30k a year or is this a "trust special fee" ? (appreciate some may put in much more).


Seems a little one sided if you ask me.


Trust spent more than it made last year, yes. The reasons for that are outlined in the minutes.

Yes the Trust pays £30,000 a year for a place on the board.

The remainder of that should probably be answered by the club!


Current Vice Chairman of the Mariners Trust. Views my own.
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moosey_club
November 6, 2017, 4:05pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bax


Trust spent more than it made last year, yes. The reasons for that are outlined in the minutes.

Yes the Trust pays £30,000 a year for a place on the board.

The remainder of that should probably be answered by the club!


but as a board member surely they know the answer to that as they will be privvy to the goings on in the boardroom ?
If i was any good at understanding accounts and account speak could i find the answer be in the recently published club accounts ?


                                                  
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bax
November 6, 2017, 4:07pm Report to Moderator
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I don't work for the club, therefore it's not my place to answer for them!


Current Vice Chairman of the Mariners Trust. Views my own.
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HertsGTFC
November 6, 2017, 4:43pm Report to Moderator

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Do the Trust get a vote on any proposed agenda points & motions?


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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bax
November 6, 2017, 4:46pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from HertsGTFC
Do the Trust get a vote on any proposed agenda points & motions?


On the club's board? Yes, of course.



Current Vice Chairman of the Mariners Trust. Views my own.
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Gaffer58
November 6, 2017, 4:52pm Report to Moderator
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So if myself and 6 mates all agreed to put in this £30k each could we then get onto the board, then could we have the majority vote on issues?
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Southwark Mariner
November 6, 2017, 5:06pm Report to Moderator
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Just a thought...is there any mention in the GTFC accounts acknowledging the Trust's contribution? Perhaps it's something that is mentioned in the GTFC boardroom or perhaps it will be at the AGM....but it would be nice.
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Bigdog
November 6, 2017, 5:07pm Report to Moderator
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It may be about time for the Trust to set out a longer term aim to help the club change permanently for the better rather than feeding a pretty stale status quo.

For the lack of influence the Trust has within the club other than giving money to spend (and there's a question of how effectively it's spent), surely by continuing to gift money to the incumbents it's not helping to effect any significant change for the better, merely helping those that seemingly hold us back.

With more than £250k from the Trust, £200k in shares, £100k in OP money, £500k in shares by MP, that's more than half the benign loan amount without imparting any influence at all. Yet all are treated with indifference, disdain and taken for granted or ignored on so many occasions.

I admire the efforts of everyone at the Trust 1000%, but I think looking long term it maybe better for the money to be pigeon holed for a greater cause than feeding as Moosey put it, "a one way street."

I've said it before, there is a question of morality around all of this and it needs addressing. I'm sick and tired of the inequity which has only been effected by the dark arts of securing a single position..

I don't want another fifteen years of Fentyball for myself and I don't want another fifteen years of Fentyball for all our long suffering fans. I'm sick to the back teeth of it..
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The Old Codger
November 6, 2017, 5:20pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Bigdog
It may be about time for the Trust to set out a longer term aim to help the club change permanently for the better rather than feeding a pretty stale status quo.

For the lack of influence the Trust has within the club other than giving money to spend (and there's a question of how effectively it's spent), surely by continuing to gift money to the incumbents it's not helping to effect any significant change for the better, merely helping those that seemingly hold us back.

With more than £250k from the trust, £200k in shares, £100k in OP money, £500k in shares by MP, that's more than half the benign loan amount without imparting any influence at all. Yet all are treated with indifference, disdain and taken for granted or ignored on so many occasions.

I admire the efforts of everyone at the Trust 1000%, but I think looking long term it maybe better for the money to be pigeon holed for a greater cause than feeding as Moosey put it, "a one way street."

I've said it before, there is a question morality around all of this and it needs addressing. I'm sick and tired of the inequity which has only been effected by the dark arts of securing a single position..

I don't want another fifteen years of Fentyball for myself and I don't want another fifteen years of Fentyball for all our long suffering fans. I'm sick to the back teeth of it..


Totally with you Bigdog. Perhaps naively, I had no idea that on top of everything else, the Trust had to pay for a seat at the big table. I have massive respect for all of you guys who put so much effort into what the Trust do but I feel compelled to ask whether you feel your efforts are worth the outcomes you get?
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HertsGTFC
November 6, 2017, 5:24pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Gaffer58
So if myself and 6 mates all agreed to put in this £30k each could we then get onto the board, then could we have the majority vote on issues?


You would have to be co-opted on I assume, I was wondering if the Trust are putting £30K PA in are the other directors still stumping up £30K of their own money a year for the "privilege" of a seat?  


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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bax
November 6, 2017, 5:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Bigdog
It may be about time for the Trust to set out a longer term aim to help the club change permanently for the better rather than feeding a pretty stale status quo.

For the lack of influence the Trust has within the club other than giving money to spend (and there's a question of how effectively it's spent), surely by continuing to gift money to the incumbents it's not helping to effect any significant change for the better, merely helping those that seemingly hold us back.

With more than £250k from the trust, £200k in shares, £100k in OP money, £500k in shares by MP, that's more than half the benign loan amount without imparting any influence at all. Yet all are treated with indifference, disdain and taken for granted or ignored on so many occasions.

I admire the efforts of everyone at the Trust 1000%, but I think looking long term it maybe better for the money to be pigeon holed for a greater cause than feeding as Moosey put it, "a one way street."

I've said it before, there is a question morality around all of this and it needs addressing. I'm sick and tired of the inequity which has only been effected by the dark arts of securing a single position..

I don't want another fifteen years of Fentyball for myself and I don't want another fifteen years of Fentyball for all our long suffering fans. I'm sick to the back teeth of it..


If members tell us this, we can act upon it. It's easy to sit behind the anonymity of a computer screen, it's much more difficult to put your head above the parapet and to get involved. And I speak from experience as I did the latter and I wanted to do something about it, so joined the Trust and ended up on the board. But the Trust has to be member-led. The more people get involved, the more we can collectively do.


Current Vice Chairman of the Mariners Trust. Views my own.
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bax
November 6, 2017, 5:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from The Old Codger


Totally with you Bigdog. Perhaps naively, I had no idea that on top of everything else, the Trust had to pay for a seat at the big table. I have massive respect for all of you guys who put so much effort into what the Trust do but I feel compelled to ask whether you feel your efforts are worth the outcomes you get?


I can only speak personally, but that feeling of Nathan Arnold's goal at Wembley was worth every single second I put in voluntarily during Operation Promotion.


Current Vice Chairman of the Mariners Trust. Views my own.
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oldun
November 6, 2017, 5:31pm Report to Moderator

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I thought that the Trust contribution to the club was to be used for specific expenditure, e.g youth development/expenses, rather than just disappear into the general club income. Can the Trust not say how it wants the money spent each year. Improving toilet facilities would be a good start. Something tangible because at the moment the Trust don't seem to know what has happened to their hard earned money.
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Bigdog
November 6, 2017, 5:33pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bax


If members tell us this, we can act upon it. It's easy to sit behind the anonymity of a computer screen, it's much more difficult to put your head above the parapet and to get involved. And I speak from experience as I did the latter and I wanted to do something about it, so joined the Trust and ended up on the board. But the Trust has to be member-led. The more people get involved, the more we can collectively do.


Sent you a PM Bax..
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The Old Codger
November 6, 2017, 5:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from bax


I can only speak personally, but that feeling of Nathan Arnold's goal at Wembley was worth every single second I put in voluntarily during Operation Promotion.


Accept that, but I still get a lump in the throat, a tear in my eye and goosebumps every time I watch it on repeat. Sadly, I can't give the time you guys give but seeing what you do and the excrement you get in return makes me wonder if the Trust is achieving what it should be for the magnitude of the time invested.
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Cloudy
November 6, 2017, 6:42pm Report to Moderator
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Lots of questions for the Trust.

Maybe they could set up a Q&A session for people to better understand what they do and why. If people can't make it then perhaps they could e-mail questions in?

How about 11th Sept 2017???
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GyFerrers
November 6, 2017, 7:54pm Report to Moderator
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What is the point of a seat on the board?  Mr Meglomaniac will do what he wants no matter what.  Surely it would be a better idea to stop wasting £30k a year and accumulate sufficient funds to launch a sustained campaign to get rid of the stranglehold on the club.  Let's face facts, operation promotion was a solid effort firstly by the trust for organising in the first place and the massive generosity shown by fans and friends of.  However, let's look at what has happened since.... the main asset of the club which was funded by the campaign has been sold and part of the funds used to pay off the very same person who strangled the club in the first place.  The main reason behind the clubs decline and continued lack of investment is still in place, spending 30 grand a year to become a puppet doesn't strike me as a wise use of funds.
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H19P1
November 6, 2017, 8:00pm Report to Moderator
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Let's fund the takeover ourselves then for a fan run club. Is it Possible?
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Meza
November 6, 2017, 8:01pm Report to Moderator

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will need a lot of money, 1 to pay for his benign loans and the rest to pay of his shares, is that right?




My Grimsby Legends
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lukeo
November 6, 2017, 8:07pm Report to Moderator
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I think the trust do an amazing job and are fantastic at what they do. I don't know any by names but see updates regular, see bax on here being as honest and fair as he can whilst being careful.. But I feel I have to 2nd everything people have said previously on this thread. Nothing against the trust at all. But where is this 30k going? Why is it they have to pay it? Are the rest of the board members? So many questions. I live away so can't commit to anything locally but would happily help and get involved in anything through social media or any other way I could realistically help with. But as someone has previously stated, is it worth looking at coming off the board and look at a tale over of some sort? We raised 250k to a risky cause to try help get promoted, imagine how much we could raise if the people and fans of Grimsby (and other places etc) knew we was raising for a take over.
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Gaffer58
November 6, 2017, 8:25pm Report to Moderator
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Is there an organisation that looks after supporters trusts? If so our trust could ask if it's the norm that clubs charge for a trust member on the board. I would of thought that the EFL (that marvoulous organisation) would want to encourage trusts being involved.
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HertsGTFC
November 6, 2017, 8:38pm Report to Moderator

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The reality of fans raising money to buy out JF is as likely as winning the lottery, it would also need a lot of "annual £30k's" from the Trust to be able to afford it. It is completely true that our decline is due to debt and the lack of investment but just getting JF out of the way though would be a breath of fresh air may not necessarily mean investors would flock to put money in. If buying out JF and investing large amounts in GTFC was a good investment then someone would have done it before now especially after our return to the league.  

The situation is not great and the worrying thing is that what appears at times to be apathy with regard to generating any form of feel good factor is dividing some sectors of the club. I personally would feel a bit better about things if JF and the powers that be just showed a bit of fukin enthusiasm towards the club, the fans and our general betterment.

If he insists on being our leader maybe he should stand up and be counted for a change rather than being the quiet man scheming in the background, if we are to progress we need figureheads not as one egg chaser once said "old farts".  


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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KingstonMariner
November 6, 2017, 8:39pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Gaffer58
Is there an organisation that looks after supporters trusts? If so our trust could ask if it's the norm that clubs charge for a trust member on the board. I would of thought that the EFL (that marvoulous organisation) would want to encourage trusts being involved.


There is. It's called Supporters Direct. There's probably no standard model for trusts being on the boards of clubs. And the League probably don't want anything to supporters organisations. Our role to them is to be passive consumers.


'no limits can be affixed to the power of organization to which a free and intelligent people may attain.'
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Ipswin
November 6, 2017, 8:40pm Report to Moderator
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There is no way that a seat on the board, given the power that single seat has and the restrictions placed upon the Trust board member about what he/she can disclose about what happens in board meetings, is worth £30,000 in fact it is a total waste of Trust funds. Unfuckingbelieveable! (The board should be paying the Trrust member to be there after all if he / she wasn't who would make the tea and sharpen the pencils? )

Seriously that £30,000 could surely be put to much better use somewhere in the club with the Trust retaining the control on how and where it was spent. Like many on here I thought the arm twisting and the resultant place on the board in exchange for the huge share holding was a once off payment.

The Trust is in good hands I'm sure (Hi Bax, Rog Swindells here Paul - we worked together if I recall) but I fear membership will fall even more if £30,000 a year 'seat rental' is handed over to JF and Co.
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The Old Codger
November 6, 2017, 8:41pm Report to Moderator
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I have to be honest, I just don't get it. £30k for a seat on the board knowing that the major shareholder is omnipotent just seems like a waste of your efforts. You've also, through a democratic vote, handed over shares that were given to you and raised a large sum of money that has just been added to the coffers.
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sonik
November 6, 2017, 8:51pm Report to Moderator

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Nothing is handed to JF. Believe me. Everyone's support and effort goes into the well being of our football club as a whole. Some on here are up a tree thinking otherwise!

I await a barrage of abuse!

UTM!


The Futures Bright Its Black And White!
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Bigdog
November 6, 2017, 9:01pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from sonik
Nothing is handed to JF. Believe me. Everyone's support and effort goes into the well being of our football club as a whole. Some on here are up a tree thinking otherwise!

I await a barrage of abuse!

UTM!


This is not having a go. You've took the time to post in this thread with a bit of an inaccurate ramble. Why not go through and put forward your direct views to direct concerns post by post rather than accusing loyal fans that you should cherish of being up a tree. Really condescending that is. Your attitude sort of proves a lot of veritable views. Come on Sonik, instead of the airy fairy one liners, let's open up the debate..
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HertsGTFC
November 6, 2017, 9:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from sonik
Nothing is handed to JF. Believe me. Everyone's support and effort goes into the well being of our football club as a whole. Some on here are up a tree thinking otherwise!

I await a barrage of abuse!

UTM!


I hope you don't find this abusive but................

Though the Fishy is a minority when I go to BP (possibly less on away trips) I sense a level of dissatisfaction with our lot on and off the field, maybe be due to over expectation maybe not. The Trust do a decent job under difficult circumstances no doubt in and out of the board room but if they have a seat on the board surely they should act as a barometer for supporters feelings/mood and ensure that the rest of the board understand how those who have been so loyal for so long feel.    


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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sonik
November 6, 2017, 9:16pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Bigdog


This is not having a go. You've took the time to post in this thread with a bit of an inaccurate ramble. Why not go through and put forward your direct views to direct concerns post by post rather than accusing loyal fans that you should cherish of being up a tree. Really condescending that is. Your attitude sort of proves a lot of veritable views. Come on Sonik, instead of the airy fairy one liners, let's open up the debate..


Not condescending at all. I value and appreciate the efforts of people doing the best for our club. All supporters too! Some don't and I see it on here daily. The abuse that John and the board gets for there continued efforts for the best of GTFC is not nice. I believe it's not a fair reflection of the fan base but I may be wrong.

UTM!


The Futures Bright Its Black And White!
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Bigdog
November 6, 2017, 9:23pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from sonik
Nothing is handed to JF. Believe me. Everyone's support and effort goes into the well being of our football club as a whole. Some on here are up a tree thinking otherwise!

I await a barrage of abuse!

UTM!


With more than £250k from the Trust, £200k in shares, £100k in OP money, £500k in shares by MP, that's more than half the benign loan amount without imparting any influence at all. Yet all are treated with indifference, disdain and taken for granted or ignored on so many occasions.

That's over £1m which aided cashflow. That was handed to him to make running the club a whole lot easier.

Why not convert his loans into shares? Why not try and attract new investors, share the burden and add to the talent pool?

Why only £2k issued in shares last year?
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sonik
November 6, 2017, 9:32pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Bigdog


With more than £250k from the Trust, £200k in shares, £100k in OP money, £500k in shares by MP, that's more than half the benign loan amount without imparting any influence at all. Yet all are treated with indifference, disdain and taken for granted or ignored on so many occasions.

That's over £1m which aided cashflow. That was handed to him to make running the club a whole lot easier.

Why not convert his loans into shares? Why not try and attract new investors, share the burden and add to the talent pool?

Why only £2k issued in shares last year?


Lots of questions here that I can't answer in full but if you think something fishy is going on (Pardon the pun) it isn't.

All Town aren't we!


The Futures Bright Its Black And White!
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Meza
November 6, 2017, 9:40pm Report to Moderator

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I bet the trust has put in more money than the other directors (excluding JF).




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Bigdog
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I'm not thick enough to think something fishy is going on.

How long does a £2m loan get you to run a Football League club on your own while precluding all others?

I'm not saying your brother should resign. I'm saying that we need new investment and fresh ideas to progress the club. We are so limited in our present state. Gates are falling, interest is on the wane and believe me you should wish that The Fishy is representative, because everyone on here cares. There's so many fans who we've lost that just don't give a toss anymore..

Fans are crying out for hope not just more of the same.

Anyway i appreciate you can't answer these questions and I appreciate at least limited dialogue.

Just get your brother to have a good think, change his spots and try to be a lot more inclusive for all of our sakes. It's too big a job to do on his own..
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Fishy_fishtails
November 6, 2017, 9:44pm Report to Moderator
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Just out of interest Bigdog what fresh ideas would you want to see in order for the club to progress? What do you think needs to change?
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Meza
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Sometimes i wonder Bigdog if JF felt threatened by the shares \ money handed to the trust by MP.  JF was very quick in persuading the trust to "hand it to me i'll look after it for you"  




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The Old Codger
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Quoted from sonik
Nothing is handed to JF. Believe me. Everyone's support and effort goes into the well being of our football club as a whole. Some on here are up a tree thinking otherwise!

I await a barrage of abuse!

UTM!


No barrage of abuse Sonik and I appreciate you putting your point of view.

I don't want to sound patronising but put yourself in the powerless fan's shoes. Since JF assumed control of the club, we have lost league standing (significantly), remained in an archaic stadium and JF has become an immovable object in respect of an incoming investor. We can go on (and we have) about Mike Parker, Lee Mullen, David Ross, Adam Pearson and anyone else who may want to invest in GTFC but in black & white in the latest accounts, it states that JF is in control of GTFC. Yes, we are all fans, yes, we all want success but, and it's a big but, the last fifteen years are not a ringing endorsement for a further 10/15/20 years of the same.
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sonik
November 6, 2017, 9:56pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Bigdog
I'm not thick enough to think something fishy is going on.

How long does a £2m loan get you to run a Football League club on your own while precluding all others?

I'm not saying your brother should resign. I'm saying that we need new investment and fresh ideas to progress the club. we are so limited in our present state. Gates are falling, interest is on the wane and believe me you should wish that The Fishy is representative, because everyone on here cares. There's so many fans who we've lost that just don't give a toss anymore..

I'm not so sure as you with that but that's my opinion. The club have searched world wide for fresh and new investment to no avail. Please don't tell me it's because of the benign loans. Hopefully we have a lot to look forward to that may attract a real sugar daddy. Time will tell I suppose.

Keep the faith!

UTM!


The Futures Bright Its Black And White!
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Bigdog
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Quoted from Fishy_fishtails
Just out of interest Bigdog what fresh ideas would you want to see in order for the club to progress? What do you think needs to change?


Attract inward investment by making the proposition more attractive financially. Become a broader church in the boardroom and not get into financial armwrestles for control. There's a lot of people out there who may have plenty to offer without having £3m+ to gain control. Our PR and marketing is woeful for a start.

The balance sheet and financial actions give off a negative vibe. Fifteen years is a long time to freefall without success, even in the FA Cup. Things are not right and JF should open his arms up and say, ok i need some help here and be prepared to take a downward and sideways step..Still be there but work part of a bigger team and accept he may not get his way all of the time.

We need cash and we need better PR and marketing, better understanding of the fans, a club ethos, do we want to be known as a club that creates a conveyor belt of young talent and gives them game time to blossom, imprint it in our DNA, or one that signs journeymen, not lurching from one style of manager to another, a club that listens to its fans and votes with them but still takes the EFL money anyway, market season tickets better, are we going to be a club that looks after the little things like minimum standards for food and toilets that make BP a bit more bearable, do the right thing and speak out about Stevenage because it's the right thing to do..

.
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sonik
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Quoted from The Old Codger


No barrage of abuse Sonik and I appreciate you putting your point of view.

I don't want to sound patronising but put yourself in the powerless fan's shoes. Since JF assumed control of the club, we have lost league standing (significantly), remained in an archaic stadium and JF has become an immovable object in respect of an incoming investor. We can go on (and we have) about Mike Parker, Lee Mullen, David Ross, Adam Pearson and anyone else who may want to invest in GTFC but in black & white in the latest accounts, it states that JF is in control of GTFC. Yes, we are all fans, yes, we all want success but, and it's a big but, the last fifteen years are not a ringing endorsement for a further 10/15/20 years of the same.


I do OC. I'm the same as other fans with a brother that puts his head above the parapet for what? I know for the good of GTFC and the future generations to come. You and I know he can't really win. We just need our players to do the business on the pitch and all will be good.

UTM!




The Futures Bright Its Black And White!
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Fishy_fishtails
November 6, 2017, 10:17pm Report to Moderator
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Well said Sonik
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The Old Codger
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Quoted from sonik


I do OC. I'm the same as other fans with a brother that puts his head above the parapet for what? I know for the good of GTFC and the future generations to come. You and I know he can't really win. We just need our players to do the business on the pitch and all will be good.

UTM!




That's an entirely different story and makes me wonder where we are going. Gates are falling dramatically because of the style of football put before us. I've gone from 'hoping we win' to 'hoping we score'.
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arryarryarry
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From where I am sitting we have appointed a personal friend of JF who appears to be squandering thousands of pounds on players that on the basis of them not being first choice is a complete waste of valuable funds.
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Bigdog
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It's nights like this that make me want to give up following Town after 45 years..

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Meza
November 6, 2017, 10:58pm Report to Moderator

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Now now Bigdog....we need every fan we can muster.  I can appreciate things are rather dull watching town atm......but all we can do as fans is atleast support the players.  Even if you dont agree eith RS appointment.....and even though he signed a few players its not really their fault.  

Im wondering if town are turning into West Ham.....what i mean by that is the fans reaction at games.....Were the players are hiding in their shells.....and rather try a killer pass go for the easy pass instead knowing a strayed pass may result in dissatisfaction from the fans.  

Anyway i hope every one sticks together....after all we've been through much worse.




My Grimsby Legends
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dapperz fun pub
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Quoted from sonik

I'm not so sure as you with that but that's my opinion. The club have searched world wide for fresh and new investment to no avail. Please don't tell me it's because of the benign loans. Hopefully we have a lot to look forward to that may attract a real sugar daddy. Time will tell I suppose.

Keep the faith!

UTM!

Surely the loans are a big factor for a potential buyer aren't they ?



thank god that's over we are now football league
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KingstonMariner
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Of course they are. For the same reason that JF stated, new potential investors will be worried by not having the influence to go with their investment, because real control rests outside the boardroom regardless of who has whatever quantity of shares.


'no limits can be affixed to the power of organization to which a free and intelligent people may attain.'
Maximilien-Sebastien Foy
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Cloudy
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Searching far and wide for new investors is pointless in my view when the benign loans gives JF complete control. Nobody would invest the sort of money required under those circumstances and I suspect JF knows that. He may work tirelessly, he may get extremely frustrated and, at times angry, but he loves the control and power.

IMO. we will continue to tread water ( at best), we have little chance of the much sought after 'football fortune' without investment. IF we could get the new ground, we have an improved chance but I fear it won't happen, too many loggerheads and too many ego's amongst developers,councillors and directors.
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HertsGTFC
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Quoted from sonik


I do OC. I'm the same as other fans with a brother that puts his head above the parapet for what? I know for the good of GTFC and the future generations to come. You and I know he can't really win. We just need our players to do the business on the pitch and all will be good.

UTM!




In answer to the first bit in bold, - Agreed a fair amount of grief but also days like 15/05/16 and the small amount of privilege that being a "non chairman" brings. Also I think more people might come forward if they had the means to.

In answer to the 2nd bit in bold - Again I agree if that happens then all this will disappear, but looking at the current crop some more investment is needed to make this happen. Not millions but just enough to make a difference.

Though I am now bored with the history but it's clear that in essence John saved the club with his financial support or if he didn't the money he put in certainly helped, I personally appreciate that as do the majority of all realistic Town supporters. Others said things like "I am putting my money where my mouth is" and have since found there level on the board of a 2nd tier non league club.

However there is indeed an apathy around things at the moment and not all because we are sat firmly mid table. Things change I get that but they need to be replaced by fresh energy from the leadership and at the moment there is little other than "the same old same old" filtering down to the majority, sometime people find that hard to follow.

Time for change at board level? In outlook, PR, supporter engagement and creativity, most definitely. In personnel? Not necessarily but John and the rest of the directors need to understand the danger of a growing disconnect between the exec and the supporters as that could cause a world of pain that nobody would buy into both financially and emotionally.  

UTM!


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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lukeo
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Dare I say Fenty is paying a lot of Slades wages out of his own pocket. Awwww friendsssss
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Quoted from lukeo
Dare I say Fenty is paying a lot of Slades wages out of his own pocket. Awwww friendsssss


WTF
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Quoted from sonik


Lots of questions here that I can't answer in full but if you think something fishy is going on (Pardon the pun) it isn't.

All Town aren't we!


But some are more Town than others.
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Swansea_Mariner
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Quoted from sonik


Lots of questions here that I can't answer in full but if you think something fishy is going on (Pardon the pun) it isn't.

All Town aren't we!


I don't think anyone is impying anything fishy has gone on but people are raising issues of fairness. How come all these large sums of money are treated as gifts to the club whereas one individuals contributions are treated as loans?

Surely there is no equity in that, or else how are we all in this together.
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headingly_mariner
November 7, 2017, 12:43pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from HertsGTFC


In answer to the first bit in bold, - Agreed a fair amount of grief but also days like 15/05/16 and the small amount of privilege that being a "non chairman" brings. Also I think more people might come forward if they had the means to.

In answer to the 2nd bit in bold - Again I agree if that happens then all this will disappear, but looking at the current crop some more investment is needed to make this happen. Not millions but just enough to make a difference.

Though I am now bored with the history but it's clear that in essence John saved the club with his financial support or if he didn't the money he put in certainly helped, I personally appreciate that as do the majority of all realistic Town supporters. Others said things like "I am putting my money where my mouth is" and have since found there level on the board of a 2nd tier non league club.

However there is indeed an apathy around things at the moment and not all because we are sat firmly mid table. Things change I get that but they need to be replaced by fresh energy from the leadership and at the moment there is little other than "the same old same old" filtering down to the majority, sometime people find that hard to follow.

Time for change at board level? In outlook, PR, supporter engagement and creativity, most definitely. In personnel? Not necessarily but John and the rest of the directors need to understand the danger of a growing disconnect between the exec and the supporters as that could cause a world of pain that nobody would buy into both financially and emotionally.  

UTM!


That is not clear, it's just your opinion. Lots of people would disagree with that and some would argue we'd have been better off without his involvement.


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grimsby pete
November 7, 2017, 1:42pm Report to Moderator

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When John Fenty asked me to phone him he assured me that his benign loans would not put people off from investing in Town.

He informed me that if a person came forward who wanted to invest X amount of pounds but they could not also give him his loans back. He could live with that as long as the deal was right for the club.

So all we need is a rich man/woman or business to come forward with the money and John would step down.

He also said he has spent money of trying to find investors to no avail up to now but he will  continue looking.

If you believe him and I do all we need is that person to come forward,

PS    I am neither a Fenty fan or a hater but I think it is wrong the Trust have to pay £30,000 a year to be on the board and as a lifetime member I hope they do not have to pay a fee any more

The trust would still provide funding for the club to which the money could be directed were the Trust feels it is needed..


Black and White forever       62 years following the town.   Proud to be a codhead.    
                                30 years living in suffolk but always a mariner .    
                            
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HertsGTFC
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Quoted from headingly_mariner


That is not clear, it's just your opinion. Lots of people would disagree with that and some would argue we'd have been better off without his involvement.


In wrote "Though I am now bored with the history but it's clear that in essence John saved the club with his financial support or if he didn't the money he put in certainly helped" so are you saying we did not need the level of personal funds he put into the club, though it's a while back I seem to remember we did not have a pot to p1ss in.

How much as he put in personally? What impact did it have on the cash flow? What would the alternative investments (donations) look like? Who else seriously came forward with similar amounts? Where would we have got the money from ? Did his finance keep us from a winding up order? etc... etc.. etc...

The topic is more about how we move forward that debating history that neither of us have the full facts about.      


"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style  
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The Old Codger
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Quoted from grimsby pete
When John Fenty asked me to phone him he assured me that his benign loans would not put people off from investing in Town.

He informed me that if a person came forward who wanted to invest X amount of pounds but they could not also give him his loans back. He could live with that as long as the deal was right for the club.

So all we need is a rich man/woman or business to come forward with the money and John would step down.

He also said he has spent money of trying to find investors to no avail up to now but he will  continue looking.

If you believe him and I do all we need is that person to come forward,

PS    I am neither a Fenty fan or a hater but I think it is wrong the Trust have to pay £30,000 a year to be on the board and as a lifetime member I hope they do not have to pay a fee any more

The trust would still provide funding for the club to which the money could be directed were the Trust feels it is needed..


With respect Pete, it's alright telling you that over the phone but it's not what a potential investor's accountant would see.
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realist
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Sonik talks out of his backside.  We have had potential major investors wanting to get involved  and they  have all left .
Why? Because of Fenty. If your poisonous clan left the club I bet the investors would return.
  Secoundly, the trust is made up of volunteers  and despite there hard work the trust makes a loss whilst the rich non chairmen pays off debt. I find this incredulous. If fenty had one once of decency he would return some money to the trust. The trust should also get some professional advice because they have such a poor deal with the club.
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crusty ole pie
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If the trust failed to make a profit this year what its chances of meeting its obligation to the club next year, if that is the case will we lose our place on the board ?
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The Old Codger
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I'm not knocking the Trust or the initiative to put the club in the heart of the community but isn't it more than slightly ironic that, in that case, the club is in the sole control of one man who charges the fans' trust for a seat on the board where their stance/opinion/viewpoint can be ignored?
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friskneymariner
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I was fully aware the Trust were only being fed crumbs off the table,didn't realise they were paying 5 star prices.
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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from The Old Codger
I'm not knocking the Trust or the initiative to put the club in the heart of the community but isn't it more than slightly ironic that, in that case, the club is in the sole control of one man who charges the fans' trust for a seat on the board where their stance/opinion/viewpoint can be ignored?


This much was obvious years ago when JF pointed loaded gun at the Trust's head and the Trust (board and membership) caved in. Hopefully everyone's learned the lesson.



'no limits can be affixed to the power of organization to which a free and intelligent people may attain.'
Maximilien-Sebastien Foy
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The Old Codger
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


This much was obvious years ago when JF pointed loaded gun at the Trust's head and the Trust (board and membership) caved in. Hopefully everyone's learned the lesson.



Mmm..
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I'll repeat what I said in the Twit thread. John Fenty offered the Trust the option of running the bars. Without the money from the bars we would have no hope whatsoever of raising 30K annually. If we didnt run the bars then either the club would or they would be put out to tender. If it were the former then the club would get the money from the bars and would use it however they saw fit. The club get no more from the deal than they would if they were running the bars themselves. In fact it is perfectly possible that the club could get less than if they ran the bars. The accounts show we make significantly more than 30K. The "losses" come from falling memberships (after the zenith of Operation Promotion year) and far fewer organised events through the year.
However it is dressed up without the bars we couldnt make the necessary contribution. The club didn't need to offer us the bars.


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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moosey_club
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Quoted from barralad
I'll repeat what I said in the Twit thread. John Fenty offered the Trust the option of running the bars. Without the money from the bars we would have no hope whatsoever of raising 30K annually. If we didnt run the bars then either the club would or they would be put out to tender. If it were the former then the club would get the money from the bars and would use it however they saw fit. The club get no more from the deal than they would if they were running the bars themselves. In fact it is perfectly possible that the club could get less than if they ran the bars. The accounts show we make significantly more than 30K. The "losses" come from falling memberships (after the zenith of Operation Promotion year) and far fewer organised events through the year.
However it is dressed up without the bars we couldnt make the necessary contribution. The club didn't need to offer us the bars.


i think its fairly obvious now that many of us didnt realise that there was a 30k per annum obligation with the seat on the board, whether that be our own fault for not paying enough attention or the Trusts for not making it clearer before now.

Dont think anyone is doubting how nice it is to have bars available for supporters or how much they maybe worth to the trusts fundraising.


                                                  
2017/18  WLLLWLWWLDDWDWDDLL 
2016/17  WLLLWDWLWWLDWLDDWDLLLWDWWLWLDLDWLWLWLDDLWWLWLD
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barralad
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Quoted from moosey_club


i think its fairly obvious now that many of us didnt realise that there was a 30k per annum obligation with the seat on the board, whether that be our own fault for not paying enough attention or the Trusts for not making it clearer before now.

Dont think anyone is doubting how nice it is to have bars available for supporters or how much they maybe worth to the trusts fundraising.


The point I'm making is that the Trust are effectively getting the place on the GTFC Board for nothing. The decision to let the Trust run the bars reduced the clubs income by whatever the bars were making. By giving them 30K per annum we are simply giving them back money that was already theirs.


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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Civvy at last
November 8, 2017, 6:50am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from barralad


The point I'm making is that the Trust are effectively getting the place on the GTFC Board for nothing. The decision to let the Trust run the bars reduced the clubs income by whatever the bars were making. By giving them 30K per annum we are simply giving them back money that was already theirs.


But surely the hard work of the trust has increased bar profits though Barra. Let’s be really honest. Would you have confidence in the club to run the bars as efficiently ?  Looking at the rest of the set up I know what my answer would be !!

Or would accounts previous to the trust running the bars prove me wrong ?


Why?
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Cloudy
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Quoted from Civvy at last


But surely the hard work of the trust has increased bar profits though Barra. Let’s be really honest. Would you have confidence in the club to run the bars as efficiently ?  Looking at the rest of the set up I know what my answer would be !!

Or would accounts previous to the trust running the bars prove me wrong ?


The bars were a shambles pre the Trust taking them over, mainly because the staff member(s) given the job had neither the skills, interest or inclination to do so.

It has been a win win because the club get (I assume) a significantly increased sum of money with far less hassle and the fans get a far more pleasant environment for a pre match pint, including the Lunchtime TV game for those interested. The shed alongside the Pontoon, whilst having limitations certainly gives more fans the opportunity for a beer inside the ground
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barralad
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Quoted from Civvy at last


But surely the hard work of the trust has increased bar profits though Barra. Let’s be really honest. Would you have confidence in the club to run the bars as efficiently ?  Looking at the rest of the set up I know what my answer would be !!

Or would accounts previous to the trust running the bars prove me wrong ?


The Trust cannot hide from the fact that the bars are a success because of the work done by Sharon who knows the business inside out, and her staff. It doesn't matter which organisation has overall control it is the staff at the sharp end who make the difference.


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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Civvy at last
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Quoted from barralad


The Trust cannot hide from the fact that the bars are a success because of the work done by Sharon who knows the business inside out, and her staff. It doesn't matter which organisation has overall control it is the staff at the sharp end who make the difference.


Political answer at its best.
Was Sharon there before the trust took over ?
If not, would the club have employed her and given her the means to succeed as well as she (and her team) are doing ?  
If yes, why did the trust need to get involved ?

Yes, the staff at the sharp end do make the difference.
But the recruitment, organisation and motivation of said staff and ultimately the results obtained are down to ???



Why?
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bax
November 8, 2017, 9:28am Report to Moderator
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Sharon was not working for the club when the Trust took control. She had previously worked for the club in the same position. So she was a Trust appointment once the Trust gained control of the facilities. Without her and her team they wouldn't be the success they are today.


Current Vice Chairman of the Mariners Trust. Views my own.
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Quoted from bax
Sharon was not working for the club when the Trust took control. She had previously worked for the club in the same position. So she was a Trust appointment once the Trust gained control of the facilities. Without her and her team they wouldn't be the success they are today.


Wasnt she 'let go' by the club previously in a cost cutting exercise??
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realist
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I just want a club I can be proud of again.  A bit of a run in the cup, some edge of the seat excitement occasionally during a game.
Instead, we have a duff manager who plays the most boring football ever, and a major shareholder who fleeces the supporters trust and won't stand up for his customers when they are abused. To rub salt in the wounds he has his family sticking up for him on here. I am on the verge of giving up. Fenty has killed my love of Town and football
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Civvy at last
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Quoted from bax
Sharon was not working for the club when the Trust took control. She had previously worked for the club in the same position. So she was a Trust appointment once the Trust gained control of the facilities. Without her and her team they wouldn't be the success they are today.


Thankyou Bax.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Sharon was a Trust appointment, and just as we judge JF by his managerial appointments (good or bad) we can say the same regarding this issue.
I am by no means trying to undermine the fantastic job Sharon and team have done. Not for one moment.  But Barra is indicating that the bars would have been a success whoever was in charge of Sharon and her team.  This clearly not the case.  Sharon has been given backing and the tools to do the job by the TRUST. Which also helps her and her team to be as successful as they have been.  I very much doubt if this would have been the case had the trust not stepped in.  Fair point Barra ?



Why?
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KingstonMariner
November 8, 2017, 10:07am Report to Moderator
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I can't believe Barra is actually playing down the Trust's role in making the bars more successful! I can see that a lot of it is down to Sharon, and not wanting to take anything way from her, but who appointed her, who gave her the support, opened up the away bar, the Sid Wheelhouse bar.....

Simple fact is, the bars were not making anything like the money they are now before the Trust took over. We never got plaudits from away fans about facilities in the Osmond before (impossible to estimate but that probably helps encourage people to come back).

So, no I don't accept that we are just giving the club money back that it would have made anyway. At the most I would say we should return the profits to the club up to a capped amount. Anything else should come with strings.

Obviously the amount that gets returned to the club one way or another has to be reduced because the Trust cannot go on making losses, until membership can be boosted again. Perhaps the trust should be more bullish in its approach. Given the way Fenty has ridden roughshod over fans' and the Trust's wishes on the Checkatrade Cup and his silence on the Stevenage farrago, it's time to start calling out these sorts of things as damaging to the long-term economic position of the club as they'll drive people away. It's time to stop worrying about rocking the boat as the pilot is steering it onto the rocks anyway.


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friskneymariner
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I would like to take the opportunity to make a fulsome apology to J.F. I have long held the view that his business prowess in being able to run a football club is somewhat lacking.

However to discover that he has been able to divest the club of the hassle that comes with running the bars on matchday's with all the problems of staffing stock ordering and accounting in return for a one off yearly payment of £30,000 which gives the Trust a representation on the board that has virtually no power: pure genius.

Perhaps he has some magic beans he would like to sell.
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The Old Codger
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Quoted from realist
I just want a club I can be proud of again.  A bit of a run in the cup, some edge of the seat excitement occasionally during a game.
Instead, we have a duff manager who plays the most boring football ever, and a major shareholder who fleeces the supporters trust and won't stand up for his customers when they are abused. To rub salt in the wounds he has his family sticking up for him on here. I am on the verge of giving up. Fenty has killed my love of Town and football


Well said - Fenty couldn't give a f**k about the fans just as long as they come through the gate. Instead of taking back his loans on costs that have been brought about by his mistakes, he should be investing in a team that puts bums on seats and is worthy of a new stadium.
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barralad
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
I can't believe Barra is actually playing down the Trust's role in making the bars more successful! I can see that a lot of it is down to Sharon, and not wanting to take anything way from her, but who appointed her, who gave her the support, opened up the away bar, the Sid Wheelhouse bar.....

Simple fact is, the bars were not making anything like the money they are now before the Trust took over. We never got plaudits from away fans about facilities in the Osmond before (impossible to estimate but that probably helps encourage people to come back).

So, no I don't accept that we are just giving the club money back that it would have made anyway. At the most I would say we should return the profits to the club up to a capped amount. Anything else should come with strings.

Obviously the amount that gets returned to the club one way or another has to be reduced because the Trust cannot go on making losses, until membership can be boosted again. Perhaps the trust should be more bullish in its approach. Given the way Fenty has ridden roughshod over fans' and the Trust's wishes on the Checkatrade Cup and his silence on the Stevenage farrago, it's time to start calling out these sorts of things as damaging to the long-term economic position of the club as they'll drive people away. It's time to stop worrying about rocking the boat as the pilot is steering it onto the rocks anyway.


My original reason for contributing to this thread was to counter what was in my view an unfair impression that GTFC are bleeding the Trust dry. I suggest if you haven't already done so that you read Cloudy's earlier contribution which gives a good account of the situation. The accounts show that we make considerably more per season than the club claim back. I'm surprised that neither you nor Civvy have recognised my original point that without the bars income the Trust would have no chance of ever making 30K which would mean no Trust presence on the club board. You may belong to the group of fans/members who think that we should leave the board anyway. It's not a view that I subscribe to personally but I accept it is a valid position. However the majority of members who have made their views on this subject known think that we should retain our position. I'm not aware of the history of the bars in respect of the differences in levels of income although I will say my colleagues deserve plenty of credit for maximising the number of outlets. From my perspective there is little else I can say...


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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The Old Codger
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Quoted from barralad


My original reason for contributing to this thread was to counter what was in my view an unfair impression that GTFC are bleeding the Trust dry. I suggest if you haven't already done so that you read Cloudy's earlier contribution which gives a good account of the situation. The accounts show that we make considerably more per season than the club claim back. I'm surprised that neither you nor Civvy have recognised my original point that without the bars income the Trust would have no chance of ever making 30K which would mean no Trust presence on the club board. You may belong to the group of fans/members who think that we should leave the board anyway. It's not a view that I subscribe to personally but I accept it is a valid position. However the majority of members who have made their views on this subject known think that we should retain our position. I'm not aware of the history of the bars in respect of the differences in levels of income although I will say my colleagues deserve plenty of credit for maximising the number of outlets. From my perspective there is little else I can say...


I'm a bit concerned about this 'quid pro quo' arrangement. What happens if the bars make £25k for example? No seat on the board?
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barralad
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Quoted from Civvy at last


Thankyou Bax.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Sharon was a Trust appointment, and just as we judge JF by his managerial appointments (good or bad) we can say the same regarding this issue.
I am by no means trying to undermine the fantastic job Sharon and team have done. Not for one moment.  But Barra is indicating that the bars would have been a success whoever was in charge of Sharon and her team.  This clearly not the case.  Sharon has been given backing and the tools to do the job by the TRUST. Which also helps her and her team to be as successful as they have been.  I very much doubt if this would have been the case had the trust not stepped in.  Fair point Barra ?



It's a fair point with the proviso that it makes the assumption that had the Trust not taken up the offer then the bars would've just carried on as they were. The fact that the club made the offer suggests that J.F. realised that all was not well in the world of bars. There are a whole host of things the club could've done to remedy the situation without the Trust being anywhere on the horizon.


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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barralad
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Quoted from The Old Codger


I'm a bit concerned about this 'quid pro quo' arrangement. What happens if the bars make £25k for example? No seat on the board?


Now that is where Sharon and The Trust do make significent contributions. There are people on The Trust Board with a wealth of marketing skills. Remember we went through six years of non-league with lower gates and certainly lower away followings yet to my knowledge our ability to meet the target was never ever in danger.


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from barralad


My original reason for contributing to this thread was to counter what was in my view an unfair impression that GTFC are bleeding the Trust dry. I suggest if you haven't already done so that you read Cloudy's earlier contribution which gives a good account of the situation. The accounts show that we make considerably more per season than the club claim back. I'm surprised that neither you nor Civvy have recognised my original point that without the bars income the Trust would have no chance of ever making 30K which would mean no Trust presence on the club board. You may belong to the group of fans/members who think that we should leave the board anyway. It's not a view that I subscribe to personally but I accept it is a valid position. However the majority of members who have made their views on this subject known think that we should retain our position. I'm not aware of the history of the bars in respect of the differences in levels of income although I will say my colleagues deserve plenty of credit for maximising the number of outlets. From my perspective there is little else I can say...


Oh I read Cloudy's contribution. He said the bars were a shambles before the Trust took them over and the staff had neither the skills not inclination to make it better.

Yet you seem to be undermining your own work by saying,
'By giving them 30K per annum we are simply giving them back money that was already theirs.'

'It doesn't matter which organisation has overall control it is the staff at the sharp end who make the difference.'

I wasn't questioning whether running the bars hep the Trust meet the £30k target. I actually belong to the group of members who think the Trust should be on the board. In fact I think we should have a controlling interest. And the more I see of the way the club is run and is heading, the more I think it necessary.

I'm questioning why you would undermine your own efforts by making the two statements I've quoted. And I'm also questioning why it's one rule for the Trust and another for other club directors. It's iniquitous.


'no limits can be affixed to the power of organization to which a free and intelligent people may attain.'
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barralad
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Oh I read Cloudy's contribution. He said the bars were a shambles before the Trust took them over and the staff had neither the skills not inclination to make it better.

Yet you seem to be undermining your own work by saying,
'By giving them 30K per annum we are simply giving them back money that was already theirs.'

'It doesn't matter which organisation has overall control it is the staff at the sharp end who make the difference.'

I wasn't questioning whether running the bars hep the Trust meet the £30k target. I actually belong to the group of members who think the Trust should be on the board. In fact I think we should have a controlling interest. And the more I see of the way the club is run and is heading, the more I think it necessary.

I'm questioning why you would undermine your own efforts by making the two statements I've quoted. And I'm also questioning why it's one rule for the Trust and another for other club directors. It's iniquitous.


I'm sorry (a bit) that you think I'm undermining our efforts. To be clear as someone who has been there from the start, I believe the Trust''s main contribution was to entice Sharon back to the fold. That in itself was a masterstroke and once she was "in house" the "old" staff came back and after a Trust sponsored refurb we hit the ground running.
I cannot and will not speak about the differences between the way we oversee the running of the bars and how they were run previously. Firstly it isn't my place and secondly I have no first hand knowledge of what the arrangements were.
As I said in my reply to Civvy earlier there is a massive assumption being made about the way the bars would have been run if the Trust had declined J.F's offer. I genuinely believe that there was significant disquiet about the performance of the bars so things would have changed anyway and there were several things that could've been done to sharpen up that aspect of GTFC.
I will concede I could have worded the 30K bit a little better but you seem unwilling to accept that bar a few strategic decisions made by the board as a whole the success of the bars can be laid ENTIRELY at the door of Sharon and her staff.


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
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grimsby pete
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I think I understand now but Ian will correct me if I am wrong,  

Fenty told the Trust you can run the bars and any money you make you can keep,

Apart from £30,000  which you will give to the club,

So if you are making over £30,000 its a good deal for all.

Knowing how Town fans like the odd tipple or two ( me included ) the Trust should be quids in for years to come.


Black and White forever       62 years following the town.   Proud to be a codhead.    
                                30 years living in suffolk but always a mariner .    
                            
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KingstonMariner
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Quoted from barralad


I'm sorry (a bit) that you think I'm undermining our efforts. To be clear as someone who has been there from the start, I believe the Trust''s main contribution was to entice Sharon back to the fold. That in itself was a masterstroke and once she was "in house" the "old" staff came back and after a Trust sponsored refurb we hit the ground running.
I cannot and will not speak about the differences between the way we oversee the running of the bars and how they were run previously. Firstly it isn't my place and secondly I have no first hand knowledge of what the arrangements were.
As I said in my reply to Civvy earlier there is a massive assumption being made about the way the bars would have been run if the Trust had declined J.F's offer. I genuinely believe that there was significant disquiet about the performance of the bars so things would have changed anyway and there were several things that could've been done to sharpen up that aspect of GTFC.
I will concede I could have worded the 30K bit a little better but you seem unwilling to accept that bar a few strategic decisions made by the board as a whole the success of the bars can be laid ENTIRELY at the door of Sharon and her staff.


Not unwilling Barra. I think you're being very honourable in praising Sharon and her team. Fair play.

But it's a bit like saying the French won at Austerlitz purely because of the efforts of the Grande Armee soldiers. Yes they were the best trained army in Europe, but if Napoleon hadn't put them there and given them what they needed, it wouldn't have happened. To stretch this metaphor even more, John Fenty is Louis XVI.

PS, you yourself highlighted Cloudy's contribution, and he specifically said the bars were a shambles before.


'no limits can be affixed to the power of organization to which a free and intelligent people may attain.'
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Cloudy
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Quoted from KingstonMariner


Not unwilling Barra. I think you're being very honourable in praising Sharon and her team. Fair play.

But it's a bit like saying the French won at Austerlitz purely because of the efforts of the Grande Armee soldiers. Yes they were the best trained army in Europe, but if Napoleon hadn't put them there and given them what they needed, it wouldn't have happened. To stretch this metaphor even more, John Fenty is Louis XVI.

PS, you yourself highlighted Cloudy's contribution, and he specifically said the abars were a shambles before.


Which was based solely upon being a long term customer in both the Main stand facilities and more latterly the Findus. They could have been making pots of money but it wasn't the impression I got being a bar fly!
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1mickylyons
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I don`t think the Trust and the board should sit on different sides of the fence and it should always be in the best interests of the Club that they remain United BUT when there are issues the Trust should be pushing a lot harder for answers. I am not impressed at all in the apparent lets just be thankful and take whatever we get attitude of late. The team are mid table in League 2 the gates are dropping the moaning is louder than for a long time but still the let`s be grateful brigade tell us to shut up and put up such is the joy at being back in the league.Well im sorry but GTFC have been around since 1878 and the blame for our fall to non league can be levelled mainy at the majority shareholder. He hires and he fires and the Trust with a place on the board need to challenge key decisions if the members they represent have a genuine gripe.

The Club appear to be treading water and I am sure if/when the news on the ground is settled we will see movement and a probable investment in players to boost numbers through the gates? JF will see a new ground as his legacy and for him it will probably cancel out the relegation to non league.For many of us we won`t see it that way but we will get where he is coming from.The Trust have a massive part to play in how this football club progresses and they will be stronger doing that from the inside in my opinion.

It really feels like were going backwards on and off the pitch I have never been so bored with what is on offer are the vast majority wrong again in terms of how they see the team/manager/player investment? Well if they are you can bet they won`t want to devalue the product and maybe that`s why hundreds of them have simply stopped going instead.

As the Man City fans once sung at Blundell Park whilst being stuffed 4-1 WTF IS GOING ON?
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As the Man City fans once sung at Blundell Park whilst being stuffed 4-1 WTF IS GOING ON?[/quote]

Remember it well now that was being truly spoilt ... After two decades of Shiite I struggle to include winning a non league final as true success


thank god that's over we are now football league
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Bigdog
November 9, 2017, 8:33pm Report to Moderator
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Beating FGR at Wembley felt like a massive outpouring of relief combined with a shedding of great embarrassment for a loyal army of fans..Glory didn't come into it..
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