We're out of the EU!

Some of the doom merchants on here are doing their best to get business, helped by the media of course.

The only proof that leaving was the right move will be in years to come. There is going to be a 2 year process to leave with most of what is in place staying in place. Germany and France already stating they want to do business, as predicted and why wouldn't they, we are their biggest market, tariffs being offset against lower corporation tax.

Some of the claims on here are very chicken little esq, with some of the whining hilarious. Job losses because we leave the EU, we have had thousands of job losses because of the EU, with EU funding relocating businesses to other countries with our money.

You don't look how someone treats you to judge them, you look at how they treat others. If the EU is so great why did it treat Greece the way it did.

Small businesses are the backbone of this country, at least they can now breathe easier.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

And going back to Chris's point earlier, I do strongly believe that a high proportion of the people who voted out are extremely thick people who based their decision on lies and untruths..

Its basic common sense as well. Immigration wasnt properly controlled under government in recent years and many people had had enough amongst other things.Now were out there is better chance of this being better controlled. This has nothing to do with academia or elitist intelligent values amongst some  eg Iam cleverer than you its about basic common sense eg to many people had come into a small island in a relativly short period of time. Likewise David Attenborough cites the wider problems of overpopulation in the world which affects the very fabric of the planet in which we live in.Its not just a numbers issue in the UK but a worldwide wide one as well .To many people in parts of the world which affects the sustainability of that area in which they live in


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cul.....ural-world-will.html

Quoted from Marinerz93

For me voting leave wasn't just about immigration it was about democracy, you know that democracy that was taken from us without our consent. The democracy that holds to account Politicians and makes them abide by the rules and if they don't they are voted out or in the case of the expenses scandal, imprisonment. You can't do this to un-elected bureaucrats who splash our cash on what they want. There is no accountability, you can't remove them or take them to court and you certainly don't know where the money has gone.

Lobbyists run the EU, big corporations run the EU, the EU is just a front.

Some of you have short memories, because of the EU quotas cost hundreds of people their jobs on the fish docks, some two or more times over, as quotas cut deeper and deeper and fish merchant after fish merchant went to the wall. I saw first hand how the EU robbed hundreds of Grimsby lads jobs because I was one of them. It was great of the EU though to allow other countries to fish our waters and then graciously allow us buy the fish we used to catch. I, like many, had to move away to find work. It also makes it easy for lazy politicians to blame the EU and do nothing.

The EU has funded more companies to relocate from the UK than to it, costing UK jobs.

What is the problem with an Australian type immigration control, at least we can either refuse entry or remove rapists, murderers and pedophiles, something we can't do under the EU. Immigration is good for the country but only if you let in the right people with the skills you are short of.

Aren't you a little bit curious as to why no leaders of the EU countries made a real effort to sway British voters to remain, only Obama's threat of you'll be at the back of the line. Aren't you curious why the EU didn't explain how it works, it's values and why there is 5 presidents.

Which ever way the vote may have gone, there was always going to be repercussions, you take few knocks and then you get up again. The EU has big plans that don't involve your say, a bit like it is now.

It's interesting you state you voted out because democracy and unelected bureaucrats.

Brussels works like this: the (unelected) commission, headed by 28 (now 27) commissioners appointed by the member states, proposes laws, in areas where national governments allow them to. To come into force, these must then be approved by majorities in both the council of ministers, made up of (mostly elected) EU ministers, and parliament (elected).

The term bureaucratic is interesting too. EU has 55,000 civil servants, the UK has 440,000.

Democratic” can be defined in different ways. The EU looks less democratic than most countries, for example. But some might also say a country with a hereditary monarchy, an unelected upper house and a parliamentary majority based on 35% of the popular vote is not very democratic either.

Maybe we aren't as democratic as you believe.

You are right about the power of big corporations controling things of course. It's an interesting question if those corporations will now have more control over a small, possibly isolated, island rather an entire multinational bloc.

At the end of the day, if you voted to leave on those issues. I have no complaint against you. I can't argue your points are wrong, only time will tell us. Your arguments seem reasoned and that you look into the reasons. I disagree with you but I can understand your frustrations.

I think what most of the remain camp believe is that the vote to leave was swung by people voting to leave because of the wrong reasons. Whether that was because of xenophobic reasons (I have seen this first hand so I know it exists). People believing the clear lies the Leave camp put up as their main campaign points (£350 million on the NHS, the backtracking they are already doing on immigration or the promise to immediately enact article 50) or the protest vote from under funded area (this is successive governments fault not the EU's).

This leaves us with a sense of frustration and feeling cheated. Also, I think there is a little guilt there that most of the passion from the Remain campaign has only come out once defeated. The Leave campaign had this passion in abundance during the campaign.

I have no argument with someone like yourself who has looked at the issues and decided there own mind on reason. Unfortunately, I've heard far too many people give very unreasoned arguments.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

I'm interested to know what the brexiteers on here, who cite immigration as the biggest issue, expect to happen.

Do you expect that the EU nationals currently living in this country will be asked to go home?  No

Do you expect that british nationals living in the EU will be asked to come home?  No

Do you expect that immigration will be brought down to less than 100K/year?      Yes


The idea is to control future immigration upon our needs , If we want fruit pickers they will be allowed in,

You might have to clean your own car soon though,

I'm in my forties,working class and i have been to uni. I started at the beginning being 60/40 LEAVE and after listening to all the arguments ended up being 100% LEAVE. The EU is facing 'three crises at once': the economic crisis, which has seen a bailout of Greece and deleterious growth across southern European countries; the migration crisis, which has caused the suspension of the Schengen arrangement; and the security crisis, in which major attacks in Brussels and Paris have claimed hundreds of lives. In each and every case, the EU is showing that it cannot solve these problems. It simply does not have the solutions, and people are getting fed up with it. Only time will tell if i made the right choice, but in my mind the 'status-quo' just wasn't good enough.  

First of all I didn't vote in the end. Peoples first reaction seems to be to raise an eyebrow or mock you for not voting. They'll say things like every vote matters. For me it is a very complex issue and could see lots of arguments for both sides and could never get my head fully around all the facts (which I think alot of people and both sides were the same but felt strong towards one direction so went with it) Now I see alot of remain voters complaining that leavers didn't know what they were doing, while some in their complaining accidentally revealing that they don't understand what they are talking about either.

Two views that have suprised me or opened my mind to other issues though that i've heard since we have voted to leave that might make some people think on here.

The first was my step dad who lives in france was speaking to a young latvian who told him that in latvia there is major problems due to very high numbers of young people from their country leaving to seek opportunities in france germany and the uk. So rather than either thinking in fear about migration from these eastern countries turning up on our doorstep, or how great a multicultural society in places like london is for us and how much those migrants contribute to OUR society, think about how latvia and other similiar countries now are apparantly losing their ability to develop while places like berlin thrive. Not really a view to whether we are better in or out of the EU but more a look into some of the problems that the EU could be causing.

The other one that suprised me was my brother who holds more socialist types of views, actually voted brexit, but i've not had time to properly discuss it with him yet, but his views sounding alternative and interesting. So its not just all the same types of people who voted to leave.

Im annoyed by people signing a petition for another referendum, alot of the people into that sort of thing seem less the voices of reason and more the 'Im an entitled uni student and I think im more politically intellegent than most while not being able to empathise or see things from anyone elses point of view', Sweeping generalisation but its one from twitter which you see alot of that even when there isn't a referendum.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

And going back to Chris's point earlier, I do strongly believe that a high proportion of the people who voted out are extremely thick people who based their decision on lies and untruths. I saw loads of it peddled on facebook by family and friends who I personally know are as thick as pigshit. The hysteria on polling day that there was an M15 conspiracy to rig the vote was typical of the mentality and level of education of many. My work colleague worked in a voting station and said 75% of the people where coming in and insisting on having a pen rather than a pencil 'coz it'll be rubbed out and changed otherwise'.

I don't begrudge any person who voted out if they genuinely looked into it carefully and decided based on a reasonable judgement. What I find infuriating is that the difference in votes was less than 2 million and I am certain that there were more than 2 million fuckwits who voted out on the basis if lies.

Gotta be extremely thick to post a comment like that.

Quoted from Perkins

Gotta be extremely thick to post a comment like that.

Not really, I'll introduce you to my Mum if you like - who is currently promoting the idea of Farage as Prime Minister on facebook. Alternatively I could send you facebook links to friends who have been re-posting untrue right wing (racist) propaganda for the last 3 months - with comments alongside such as 'nuff said'.

Quoted from grimsby pete

I'm interested to know what the brexiteers on here, who cite immigration as the biggest issue, expect to happen.

Do you expect that the EU nationals currently living in this country will be asked to go home?  No

Do you expect that british nationals living in the EU will be asked to come home?  No

Do you expect that immigration will be brought down to less than 100K/year?      Yes


The idea is to control future immigration upon our needs , If we want fruit pickers they will be allowed in,

You might have to clean your own car soon though,

Thanks for the response. So, if the only way we can get a free trade deal with the EU is to allow free movement of people you will be pretty disappointed I take it? Also don't you think less than 100K is unrealistic given we already take in around 150K non EU nationals - which is controlled by us already?

Quoted from Rick12

Its basic common sense as well. Immigration wasnt properly controlled under government in recent years and many people had had enough amongst other things.Now were out there is better chance of this being better controlled. This has nothing to do with academia or elitist intelligent values amongst some  eg Iam cleverer than you its about basic common sense eg to many people had come into a small island in a relativly short period of time. Likewise David Attenborough cites the wider problems of overpopulation in the world which affects the very fabric of the planet in which we live in.Its not just a numbers issue in the UK but a worldwide wide one as well .To many people in parts of the world which affects the sustainability of that area in which they live in


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cul.....ural-world-will.html

Your missing my point - which was that some people didn't even understand the difference between EU immigration, Non EU Immigration and Refugess.