Just Back

Quoted from Hagrid

The defence has been dogshit all season, so all this " theres a player in there" is codswallop.

Collectively and individually they are not good enough and I'd happily see the 4 that started on Saturday out the door ( Possibly push Glennon further forward or if we played with wing backs he'd do alright)

But their first job, is to defend, and none of them seem remotely capable of even doing the basics

First seven games of the season we conceded six goals, within that we had 3 clean sheets.  In the following 20 games we conceded 42 goals.   Even if we discount the defensive capitulations against Walsall and Notts County it reads as 31 conceded in 18.  

Amazingly we also had to wait the best part of 4 months to get another clean sheet.

Until we went to Wrexham we looked solid and were shutting teams out with less than a goal conceded per game.  It's very different doing it over a handful of games as opposed to a whole season, or even just over half a season, but at present there's only two teams who are averaging less than a goal a game (Mansfield and Barrow, 3rd and 4th in the table) with Stockport averaging exactly a goal per game.

I don't know what it is but we went from looking tight at the back and also shutting teams out to completely and utterly porous.  

There's some really good posts on this thread about the space we afford sides and the positional sense of our defence.  One thing to add is that we we play with two very attack minded full-backs, which shouldn't be discouraged.  But if a player bombs on then there has to be cover, otherwise it's all or nothing when they go forward (as has been exposed badly in the case of Mullarkey down the right).  That cover can only really come from two positions.  Either the winger in front of you or from the rest of the defence shifting across.  

To my mind we're not doing either.  None of our proper wingers are what you would call ones who naturally track back.  Eisa impressed again on Sat with his work ethic but it's not his game and I think you can say the same for Vernam.  When Clifton plays there he does afford some degree of cover to his fullback but largely he's not played out wide this year.

I think back to the start of the 21/22 Conference season when Efete was on absolute fire, especially going forward.  But part of that freedom came because he was part of a back four that was otherwise quite rigid and robust.  Whenever he went forward the two centre-backs shifted across and it was Adam Crookes at left-back who then became almost part of a back three.  It was no surprise that when Crookes was replaced by the more attack minded Danny Amos that Efete's raiding forward was less frequent.   For his critics, Amos was also quite happy to drift slightly inside and he made an awful lot of challenges coming across the last man when teams tried to expose the space from Efete going forward.

This season though and especially in the last month or so both Mullarkey and Glennon often go forward together, massively exposing our centre-backs into covering all 4 positions. Or when Glennon goes forward, Mullarkey does at least drift in slightly to make it 3 at the back.  When it's Mullarkey going forward, I don't see anyone shifting across.  Glennon stays wide, the left sided centre back can't move and then you're left with the right sided centre back trying to play their role and at right-back, ultimately they just get caught in no-mans land as we've seen quite extensively of late.

The relatively solid defence at the beginning of this season saw Amos play 5 of those games with the record reading as 3 conceded and 2 clean sheets.  I'm not saying it's as simple a case as Danny Amos coming back in and we become a better defence.  I like Glennon and I like what he offers going forward.  I also think Mullarkey can be a big asset at full-back if he can a) put in a better delivery more often and b) just do the basics when defending.  But until we either learn how to defend as a unit and/or cover each other then we're going to really struggle to be tight with the current players at the back.

I've always thought that Amos was a bit better as a defender than Glennon (due in part of Glennon's lack of pace), but no doubt that Amos isn't anywhere near as good with the ball at his feet and he's never really done much when attacking. Given the way in which Artell wants the team to play, I can see why Glennon is picked, but he's flawed defensively.

Unfortunately, you can't coach somebody to become quicker and, because wingers tend to be among the fastest players in a team, a full-back who is even a little bit below average in the pace department is going to be under pressure against most teams.

Quoted from Poojah

I’m not sure I buy that. There’s no questioning that the basics aren’t being done currently, but the notion that the likes of Rodgers and Maher aren’t capable of them doesn’t really stand to reason.

Maher was virtually ever-present in a Halifax side with the best defensive record in the National League the season we went up - 35 goals in 44 games, and was fine for most of last season. At 27, Rodgers had played almost all of his career above this level when we signed him.

I’m not questioning what you’re seeing in the here and now; we’re all seeing it. There just has to be more to come from those two in particular, doesn’t there?

i give you the Pollock/Waterfall c. half combo. An absolute disaster as a partnership, but given different partners the next season and they resumed being the v. good center halfs we knew they were

Quoted from GrimPol

Positive:  It was good to see that we mugged the opposition, especially in the midfield. Usually, it's us that get dispossessed, left waving our arms about in indignation. But it was refreshingly us mugging/pickpocketing/roughing them. Well done!

Negative:  Rose. Yes, he does keep running, dashing and trying, and scoring, but, he is top-heavy and falls over. He rarely gets a FK out of it, and when robbed the ball is in play and the counterattack is up and running. He must try harder to stay on his feet, or give away a FK against himself, which does stop the game for us to re group. Just saying.

Out of all the things that have gone wrong or are wrong with the team this season it is actually mind-blowing that you're suggesting Danny Rose is a negative in any way, shape or form.

Quoted from CSLM

Don't think it has been mentioned that our 4th was because Mullarkey did bomb forward and put a reasonable ball in early. He is a bit like Glennon. They both can be dangerous going forward but are often out of position and struggle to get back.

We seem to be playing more and more like Notts. with the way we get so many players forward. It is leaving us short at the back but definitely enjoyable to watch. Saying that we can't keep conceding this many and so many chances. Both teams missed good chances on Saturday.

Mullarkey is okay going forward. Not a constant threat as he's not quick, can't take a man on and his crossing is inconsistent at best. Unfortunately though, he is nowhere near good enough going forward to make up for his defensive weaknesses. If we want to be in the top half, he can't be the starting right back.

Quoted from forza ivano

i give you the Pollock/Waterfall c. half combo. An absolute disaster as a partnership, but given different partners the next season and they resumed being the v. good center halfs we knew they were

Exactly, it's minor tweaks that can hugely change a defence. Sometimes it can even come with time, a change of shape or minor change to the players.
This get rid of the lot of them is short sighted nonsense.

Quoted from mariner91

Out of all the things that have gone wrong or are wrong with the team this season it is actually mind-blowing that you're suggesting Danny Rose is a negative in any way, shape or form.

Are you arguing with what I see, or my temerity in bringing it up?

Fans were purring about Rodgers at the start of the season. He looked excellent and so did Mullarkey, but for some reason it all went wrong and the confidence was shot. I blame the whole team and of course PH for that, but there was also a bit of bad luck thrown in, where we lost games we had done enough in to get the win, or at least a draw, with us constantly being edged out by a single goal. This seemed to play on the minds of the whole team; PH couldn't sort it and of course he lost his job.

Now a new man comes in and completely changes everything about the way we play. It takes time and repetitive training over weeks and months for it to become ingrained. Given a chance, the players we now have may adapt and become the player's we hope they are, or they may not. The job of Artell is to gauge how long he deems it necessary for the current incumbents to get it or be shipped out and replaced. Also, we all know it's not just defenders to blame for conceding goals. Vernam stitched up Mullarkey for their first with a terrible touch for instance.

I suspect that Amos and Efete will be shown the door, and two new full backs will come in, but that may not be possible until the end of the season, so we may have to stick with what we have for now and until the seasons end. Maybe Glennon and Mullarkey will become second choice squad players eventually, or maybe they will sort out their difficulties and become permanent fixtures. Who knows?

Been watching the game too long to write off any players, and we have all been proved wrong over the years. Let's just see what the management do to cure our obvious problems, and hope they crack it sooner, rather than later.

Quoted from GrimPol

Are you arguing with what I see, or my temerity in bringing it up?

Both. It's a really minor issue at worst and for all the unbelievable work he does off the ball and with the ball it's perplexing to label him as a negative when there are other more glaring issues elsewhere in the side.

Quoted from ginnywings

Fans were purring about Rodgers at the start of the season. He looked excellent and so did Mullarkey, but for some reason it all went wrong and the confidence was shot. I blame the whole team and of course PH for that, but there was also a bit of bad luck thrown in, where we lost games we had done enough in to get the win, or at least a draw, with us constantly being edged out by a single goal. This seemed to play on the minds of the whole team; PH couldn't sort it and of course he lost his job.

Now a new man comes in and completely changes everything about the way we play. It takes time and repetitive training over weeks and months for it to become ingrained. Given a chance, the players we now have may adapt and become the player's we hope they are, or they may not. The job of Artell is to gauge how long he deems it necessary for the current incumbents to get it or be shipped out and replaced. Also, we all know it's not just defenders to blame for conceding goals. Vernam stitched up Mullarkey for their first with a terrible touch for instance.

I suspect that Amos and Efete will be shown the door, and two new full backs will come in, but that may not be possible until the end of the season, so we may have to stick with what we have for now and until the seasons end. Maybe Glennon and Mullarkey will become second choice squad players eventually, or maybe they will sort out their difficulties and become permanent fixtures. Who knows?

Been watching the game too long to write off any players, and we have all been proved wrong over the years. Let's just see what the management do to cure our obvious problems, and hope they crack it sooner, rather than later.

I think that's completely the other way round. It's a poor touch from Vernam no doubt but he's 40 yards from our goal. Normally if you lose possession there you still have your defence in the way to stop the opposition forwards. If Mullarkey had held his position until we actually had the ball under control then there shouldn't be an issue there but as it is Jones is through and in a great position.  Make those runs if you're certain its highly unlikely we'll lose possession but in transition phases like this with the ball bouncing about between the midfield and back four and not under our control yet it's beyond stupid for a full back to leave the man you're marking clean through behind you because you've made an aimless run forward. DA mentioned in the post match interview about poor decision making and I'm sure this will have been one of the instances he was talking about. It's a particularly brain dead thing to do in the context of being 10 minutes before half time and up until this point absolutely cruising.