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Whatthefuckisgoingon?

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mimma
November 11, 2019, 11:36am Report to Moderator
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Footballers like to play football, and don't enjoy playing in a negative manner. I never enjoyed playing negative boring football, and I bet the players don't either. When Gary Birtles was here he wrote in his book about how much he enjoyed it here because the emphasis was on keeping the ball and getting forward to score. Even in training under sir Alan he stated all we did in training was playing football and six a side. Training was enjoyable under AB and it showed on a Saturday afternoon.

Now it's the complete opposite.
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GrimRob
November 11, 2019, 1:12pm Report to Moderator

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When was the last time we were consistently "entertained" at BP? Late 90s? That's before many of our players were born. Even when Buckley came back his methods didn't work any more. I'd love us to play 4-4-2 with genuine wingers because that's what I grew up with but that's deemed as "old school" now as the emphasis is more or not losing.

I've always said that crowds are highest when we win, not when we "entertain". Likewise, a manager's success is deemed almost entirely by metrics like win ratios and points per game. Everyone has become so obsessed with data that I think anyone who deviates from the standard approach is going to be deemed "naive".


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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FishOutOfWater
November 11, 2019, 1:51pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from diehardmariner
I've been very defensive of Jolley in the past and advocated that anger is directed toward the board room rather than to him, largely due to the budget constraints I believe he's under.

I still believe that we should direct our main anger towards the higher echelons of this club, that's where the fundamental problems of the last 20 years lie.

However, I'm simply struggling to defend Jolley anymore.  Even more so after that absolutely dreadful show on Saturday.  It was simply shite.

Regardless of budget constraints, Jolley has built an unbalanced squad.  There isn't a body in the building that he hasn't signed or given a new deal to.  They're all his players.  

He's got four central defenders, with very little difference between them in what they bring.  The most composed is the lad who should still be serving the second year of his YTS!  Individually I think Waterfall is a good signing but was he what he needed?  

In midfield where's the variation?  There's nothing in there that's remotely technical or creative. Our best footballing midfielder is Hessenthaler, a guy who's best used in front of the back four.  

We have no width other than Max Wright, who without we look absolutely toothless.  

In attack we're pathetic.  We've got a guy who can be a focal point, hold play up and bring others into play.  Yet what we're doing is lumping it into corners for him to chase down.  He's supported by a guy (Green) who looks devoid of confidence, fitness and understanding.  Our Plan B is to bring on Rose because of his pace but we don't adjust how we play the balls up to him.  We still lump it and expect him to win it 9 feet in the air against giant defenders.

The one potential variation we have in attack, indeed our whole squad, is Charles Vernam.  I've been a bit disappointed with what he's delivered since arriving permanently and I get that there's probably question marks over his fitness, but when we were crying out for something different he played 63 minutes on loan for Chorley - which also cup ties him so I'm guessing that could be an indication of how Jolley views his future.

I know Hendrie is injured and I'm guessing Hewitt is injured too, which left us without a right wing-back.  The no brainer for me was to go with a back four on Saturday and put Harry Davis at right-back.  Using Jordan Cook as a wing-back is just ridiculous.  Wedded to a system we can't play and shoehorning people into it just to stick with it.

I don't mind grinding results out as and when needed.  But we are awful, not just dogged.  We have no quality, we have no game plan, we have no clear vision, we have nothing at all.  

One argument is let's ride it out until January and let Jolley do some further tweaks to the squad.  The other is do we want to let him loose again?  On reflection have we improved window on window?  Individually I think we've brought good players in, just the balance is wrong.  

I know it wasn't a nice day on Saturday and the FA Cup isn't the glamour it once was.  But having not played for ages and no game next week, you would have expected a better gate.  That's a result of the poor entertainment we're offering.  

Jolley comes across as a nice bloke but that's not what we need.  We need a winner. I've got big reservations if he's that, unfortunately.

  


A couple of points on what is a very sound post DHM...

IMHO Hessenthaler is being played in front of the defence for a reason....  that is because Jolley favours not losing rather than going out for a win.

If he were allowed to be play his game further up the field then who knows if he mightn't be able to get in and around the opposition box more often, meaning he might be more of a goal-scoring threat

As for Max Wright, if our attacking hopes for the season are based on a young (admittedly talented ) lad who only made his first start for the club in the last game of last season then we are clutching at straws.

I get the excitement of him being in the team because he has a turn of pace and an enthusiasm and sense of adventure that could take him a long way in the game, but when all's said and done he's still not the finished article nor is he likely to be for a while yet

As for the right back position on Saturday, I agree with you.... that should have gone to Davis ( Hewitt was off because of his "new arrival" as I understand it )

Davis has played there before, so that should have given us some solidity / balance with Gibson on the left and Waterfall in the centre with either Ohman or Pollock to partner him

My biggest complaint about Saturday is us not really having a go at Newport in the second half..... a second goal before they equalised should have killed off the game

But no.... safety first backfired this time. We got away with it at Cambridge when Macca saved the pen and yeah, we came close to doing it again when Russell nearly kept out Podge's penalty

It's a form of Russian roulette though to just sit back with everyone behind the ball as all we did is hoof it up and wait for them to launch it back in again.

To my mind that's THE reason we didn't win and take the £36K prize money on offer.... Jolley said the players were under pressure so understandable they fell back to try and defend

That's a poor excuse.... he should have been giving instructions to play further up the park and not to have allowed Rose to be the lone player who wasn't camped back towards the Osmond End

It''s not all over in the cup of course.... we're still in the draw but we had the opportunity to leave BP with a win under our belts and a bit of a feel good factor about the 2nd round. Now everyone is just resigned to the replay just being another game of sit back and hope for the best. That's just not good enough
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arryarryarry
November 11, 2019, 1:56pm Report to Moderator
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I can't really understand why we sign a big centre forward then don't sign any proper wide players to get the ball into him.

It would seem the only winger we have is Max Wright who Jolley didn't feel was good enough to play for us last season.
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KingstonMariner
November 11, 2019, 2:04pm Report to Moderator
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Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.


Through the door there came familiar laughter,
I saw your face and heard you call my name.
Oh my friend we're older but no wiser,
For in our hearts the dreams are still the same.
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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
November 11, 2019, 2:27pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.


Don’t forget Kingston that Jolley came in with a tremendous amount of goodwill, had a bit of luck to set him off and talked a good game. He was also the only one for the job. I was never convinced by him but he stuck those qualifications and all the latest jargon under our noses and we gave him the benefit. Well, the benefit is now over. The second season is always the big test, a year to get the dead wood out, a year to get the side settled and trained in the pressing game we were promised. It is not happening and the choice is now risky whichever route we take. The side needs an injection of confidence and playing style plus game winning nous. That was what we wanted post-Slade and it is still missing. If spinning the wheel is what it means then that’s what must be done but don’t leave it too late this time. We should be putting the snow chains on now perhaps!



"Ah but I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now.” Bob Dylan, My Back Pages
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Northbank Mariner
November 11, 2019, 3:42pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from KingstonMariner
Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.


At this rate I'll ask one question....what we got to lose??
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forza ivano
November 11, 2019, 3:47pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Northbank Mariner


At this rate I'll ask one question....what we got to lose??


relegation to the barren wastes of non league football??
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Northbank Mariner
November 11, 2019, 3:56pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from forza ivano


relegation to the barren wastes of non league football??


If we keep going the way we are with current incumbent I could see that, just thank our lucky stars there's only 1 place to fight over this year..might give us a fighting chance if maintaining our league status!!
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Maringer
November 11, 2019, 4:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from arryarryarry
I can't really understand why we sign a big centre forward then don't sign any proper wide players to get the ball into him.


Not just that, either. It's the signing of a strong and aerially dominant centre forward allied with a playing style which means we have absolutely nobody up around him in support to pick up the pieces when he wins aerial challenges (or even narrowly loses them). Midfield too deep, no width and no partnership at all with fellow strikers who are generally too far away to have a chance to pick up any knock downs.

The much-maligned Hurst was often criticised for the unimaginative and often dour tactics of his teams but at least there was usually a pretty clear plan of what was expected, even when it didn't work out. As I've said in the past, I just can't see what the team is trying to do most of the time this season (and last, for that matter).

Last season, we were both slow and lightweight. Not so lightweight this time around, but the only real pace we have comes from Wright and Rose who have about 10 League starts between them. I get that there is likely to be an incremental change to the squad, but this has been much, much too slow when it was glaringly obvious what was lacking last season.

I couldn't make it on Saturday afternoon due to other commitments, but I wasn't too bothered about missing the game because I really wasn't expecting much from the performance, even if we had nicked a win.

The fact that various posters who went to the game aren't quite sure what formation we were actually supposed to be playing isn't a good sign. Then again, is it really too much of a surprise when we seem to have played a different formation in practically every game this season? No wonder that these 4th Division footballers are struggling to cope with the chopping and changing to line-up and formation which is occurring.
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