We appear to have a decent squad, six weeks ago, we appeared to have a bit of a clue but now, we look like a bunch of strangers who don’t know what the hell to do. Summed for me when Akheem Rose had a clear run on goal and didn’t seem to know what he was supposed to do next.

Manager has a lot to explain because on this evidence we’ll be in our usual looking behind us mode again soon.

I’ll give Rose the benefit of the doubt and put the missed chance down to not knowing if he was offside or not but agree that was poor.

Quoted from LH

I’ll give Rose the benefit of the doubt and put the missed chance down to not knowing if he was offside or not but agree that was poor.

A good striker puts the ball in the back of the net and lets the ref decide if he was offside or not.

It was a half arsed effort from him

Quoted from grimsby pete

A good striker puts the ball in the back of the net and lets the ref decide if he was offside or not.

And I said the same thing at the time but understand why he delayed the quarter of a second which allowed the chance to pass by.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We appear to have a decent squad, six weeks ago, we appeared to have a bit of a clue but now, we look like a bunch of strangers who don’t know what the hell to do. Summed for me when Akheem Rose had a clear run on goal and didn’t seem to know what he was supposed to do next.

Manager has a lot to explain because on this evidence we’ll be in our usual looking behind us mode again soon.

“soon” = NOW for me.

We just happen to be in the bad patch stage of the good patch / bad patch cycle we’ve been on since Jolley arrived.

In my opinion, it’s not that he lacks tactical ability (he can come up with a good game plan), it’s that he lacks tactical agility. As soon as other sides work out a way to play against us, we’re screwed as it takes six or seven games to find a solution and so the cycle repeats.

I don’t necessarily disagree with the way he set up the squad this year, but the reality is that we’re generally not that pretty when we win; we’re Jackie Stallone-level ugly when we lose and that doesn’t do much in terms endearment from the fans.

He’s learning and that’s fine, but he needs to learn fast if he’s going to build a meaningful, long-term career in the game.

There haven’t been any any tactics or strategy visible for months. What’s the point of having a manager if all we are gonna do is aimlessly, hopefully punt it forward? I think the least we can expect is a visible method of play. Even if we get beat. Where is it? It’s absolutely cr@p.

Quoted from Poojah

We just happen to be in the bad patch stage of the good patch / bad patch cycle we’ve been on since Jolley arrived.

In my opinion, it’s not that he lacks tactical ability (he can come up with a good game plan), it’s that he lacks tactical agility. As soon as other sides work out a way to play against us, we’re screwed as it takes six or seven games to find a solution and so the cycle repeats.

I don’t necessarily disagree with the way he set up the squad this year, but the reality is that we’re generally not that pretty when we win; we’re Jackie Stallone-level ugly when we use and that doesn’t do much in terms endearment from the fans.

He’s learning and that’s fine, but he needs to learn fast if he’s going to build a meaningful, long-term career in the game.

I think he’s turning into Hurst Mark 2. Stubborn and spends too much time planning for what the opposition can do to us rather than what we can do to them.

He’s had plenty of time. These are his players. We are making no progress whatsoever and the stats underline that point. A manager has to produce. They need a fair portion of time of course but he’s had that. For me , his time is all but up. It’s not good enough.

##Disckaimer##...this is second hand information##..
Got told today Jolley applied for the Lincoln job and wasn't successful and seems to coincide with our dip in performance and results...so don't shoot the messenger, it could be boll0x..I don't know...
Anyway, again I fall out with a fellow supporter, while I'm berating the sh!the I witnessed today I was told "if you don't like it, f@ck off home"..well, many more performances like that and believe, my season ticket will be under the dodgy leg of the dining table and I'll be on the golf course on a Saturday until Jolley is gone...

Quoted from chaos33

He’s had plenty of time. These are his players. We are making no progress whatsoever and the stats underline that point. A manager has to produce. They need a fair portion of time of course but he’s had that. For me , his time is all but up. It’s not good enough.

You’ve summed up my thoughts exactly. I think the vast majority of us are thoroughly sick of it too.

Sounds like you lot want Jolley the sack, move in Paul Tisdale ?

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

##Disckaimer##...this is second hand information##..
Got told today Jolley applied for the Lincoln job and wasn't successful and seems to coincide with our dip in performance and results...so don't shoot the messenger, it could be boll0x..I don't know...
Anyway, again I fall out with a fellow supporter, while I'm berating the sh!the I witnessed today I was told "if you don't like it, f@ck off home"..well, many more performances like that and believe, my season ticket will be under the dodgy leg of the dining table and I'll be on the golf course on a Saturday until Jolley is gone...

Dear me,have you been drinking heavily or just took a draw very badly?

Been saying for over a season that Jolley is no manager.. He does not have a clue how to manage. He is a coach not a manager. He has learned nothing in two years . There has been no real improvement in play or win percentage. The heat is now starting to build , lets see how his fine words start to alter now things are getting warm.. He has got some reasonable players but does not know what to do with them

Once a manager alienates the fans he's on borrowed time. By the way he sets us up to play and the negative way we play, he's in danger of losing the fans. He has to drastically change it and bloody quick or he will be gone, victim of his own downfall.

Are training sessions open to the public, because if they are it would be interesting to see what happens on the training pitch, I cannot believe they train to just boot it to Hanson and hope. Probably they should just play 11 versus 11 and learn to play the ball on the deck.

Jolley has had 18 months now. Admittedly he took over a very poor squad but he’s had 3 transfer windows to correct that. We’re actually worse now than we were at the end of the 2017/18 season when we played really well against FGR and County.

For a man who’s supposedly very intelligent it takes him forever to learn lessons. And for once I disagree with Poojah, I think Jolley lacks tactical nous and tactical intelligence. Far more often than not he gets the tactics/formation/line-up or a combination of the three completely wrong. He rarely, if ever, changes things during a game for the better. And I haven’t very often seen much of a game plan at the start of the game either. Anyone can set a team up to stick eleven men behind the ball at home to a team who are also on a poor run of form and frankly it’s almost sackable in itself if that’s the sum of his managerial ambition against a side like Newport County ffs. At least have a go at them!

The only two times I can really think of him getting it spot on was away at Palace and away at Exeter. That’s two times in 18 months, it’s nowhere near enough. You can get away with not being a tactical genius if you set your team up with a clear and consistent game plan which they can execute relatively well and have a back up plan when things aren’t going well. But he doesn’t do that euther. Frankly, I think his time is all but up and expect him to be gone hopefully before the January transfer window.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

##Disckaimer##...this is second hand information##..
Got told today Jolley applied for the Lincoln job and wasn't successful and seems to coincide with our dip in performance and results...so don't shoot the messenger, it could be boll0x..I don't know...
Anyway, again I fall out with a fellow supporter, while I'm berating the sh!the I witnessed today I was told "if you don't like it, f@ck off home"..well, many more performances like that and believe, my season ticket will be under the dodgy leg of the dining table and I'll be on the golf course on a Saturday until Jolley is gone...

Whether that is true or not something has gone on - I can feel it in my water.

All of a sudden tetchiness creeps in from the manager, players don't seem to be convinced by tactics or lack thereof, and the cycle of optimism followed by despair starts all over again.

“Jackie Stallone ugly”

First laugh of the day,

Yes, his players and he has had time to take the team forward.  The win at unbeaten Exeter looks now like the exception to the rule, not a statement of better results coming.

It should be a crime to bore loyal fans with dull, boring and defensive “football and tactics”.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Whether that is true or not something has gone on - I can feel it in my water.

All of a sudden tetchiness creeps in from the manager, players don't seem to be convinced by tactics or lack thereof, and the cycle of optimism followed by despair starts all over again.

Well for starters, he’s leaving Clifton out because he says he can’t rely on him as he’s always on international duty.

Quoted from denni266

Been saying for over a season that Jolley is no manager.. He does not have a clue how to manage. He is a coach not a manager. He has learned nothing in two years . There has been no real improvement in play or win percentage. The heat is now starting to build , lets see how his fine words start to alter now things are getting warm.. He has got some reasonable players but does not know what to do with them

You say the same about everyone who manages us though  so no-one listens!

Quoted from Gaffer58

Are training sessions open to the public, because if they are it would be interesting to see what happens on the training pitch, I cannot believe they train to just boot it to Hanson and hope. Probably they should just play 11 versus 11 and learn to play the ball on the deck.

I don't know what is going on in training but every player seems worse now than what they were at the start of the season,whether it is injury or interference I don't know . Somebody or something has caused it and you can't sack something At the start of the season it was "Please Please Me" by The Beatles-now it's "Goodbyee Goodbyee" by Everybody.

Quoted from Poojah

We just happen to be in the bad patch stage of the good patch / bad patch cycle we’ve been on since Jolley arrived.
it’s not that he lacks tactical ability

Sorry cant agree
I was willing to give MJ time to mould a good solid team to push for promotion.
After today I have to give him credit for the squad we now have but that alone is not good enough.
If you then if you don’t have the acumen to use your resources in the correct way then it’s time to go.
Today showed me that the bloke has not got a clue.
I did hate saying this as I wanted a long term plan to get our club playing at higher level  :B

Quoted from Gaffer58

Are training sessions open to the public, because if they are it would be interesting to see what happens on the training pitch, I cannot believe they train to just boot it to Hanson and hope. Probably they should just play 11 versus 11 and learn to play the ball on the deck.

If only we had Hope to help Hanson. ;)

Quoted from TAGG

Sorry cant agree
I was willing to give MJ time to mould a good solid team to push for promotion.
After today I have to give him credit for the squad we now have but that alone is not good enough.
If you then if you don’t have the acumen to use your resources in the correct way then it’s time to go.
Today showed me that the bloke has not got a clue.
I did hate saying this as I wanted a long term plan to get our club playing at higher level  :B

I agree with your general thrust, but I always say it is up to the board to have a "long term" plan to push the club on to better things (apart from ours, obviously).

The managers job is to get results; no good having any long term plans if you cannot get results. Not only is he not getting results (with a group of players I thought  were better than previous seasons) but is playing the most boring, unexciting football.

When ARE we going to see some excitement? The last few games we have not made the keeper move a muscle, don't get into the box, don't have a prolonged period of pressure, don't have any shots and score precious few goals.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I agree with your general thrust, but I always say it is up to the board to have a "long term" plan to push the club on to better things (apart from ours, obviously).

The managers job is to get results; no good having any long term plans if you cannot get results. Not only is he not getting results (with a group of players I thought  were better than previous seasons) but is playing the most boring, unexciting football.

When ARE we going to see some excitement? The last few games we have not made the keeper move a muscle, don't get into the box, don't have a prolonged period of pressure, don't have any shots and score precious few goals.

If the long term plan is to save a few shekels to pay off the loans then I fear we’ll be fighting to retain our league status again with the current game plan and the manager’s mentality.

Couple of things on this,

I don’t think Jolley and Limbrick are making the players any better in term of performance and developing their game this was evident today and twice against Cambridge when Rose had clean break opportunities and rather than knocking it past the defender and putting the afterburners on he chose to try and dribble it and lost possession, poor coaching that IMHO.

If Jolley applied for the Lincoln job I’d be surprised as he’s clearly intelligent enough to work out that they’d never go for a lower half Div 4 Manager.

Apart from that whoever says he applied for the Lincoln job is a an idiot as they would have needed permission from GTFC to talk to him and as the club technically is a PLC that permission would have had to have been made public by corporate law.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Couple of things on this,

I don’t think Jolley and Limbrick are making the players any better in term of performance and developing their game this was evident today and twice against Cambridge when Rose had clean break opportunities and rather than knocking it past the defender and putting the afterburners on he chose to try and dribble it and lost possession, poor coaching that IMHO.

If Jolley applied for the Lincoln job I’d be surprised as he’s clearly intelligent enough to work out that they’d never go for a lower half Div 4 Manager.

Apart from that whoever says he applied for the Lincoln job is a an idiot as they would have needed permission from GTFC to talk to him and as the club technically is a PLC that permission would have had to have been made public by corporate law.

I don’t know any more about the Lincoln rumour than anyone else but I do know “applied” would be a great exaggeration and any communications would have been extremely well under the radar.

But you have a nail on the head there with MJ and his assistant. I expected we would see lesser known players improved into at least L2 level and on  to a level where Championship clubs start sniffing round. That was his big self-promotion point wasn’t it? Instead we see players going backwards or reaching a plateau too soon like Clifton and Rose. I fear for other youngsters in this situation.

Quoted from LH

You say the same about everyone who manages us though  so no-one listens!

I cannot remember saying about other managers  that they are coaches and not managers, And as far as i am concerned  the last three have been as crap as each other . league position shows that . but if you are happy with what we have thats up to you , but i do seem to be in the majority especially at the moment . you cannot keep saying ,, in the next window  , next season etc

Quoted from Stadium

Dear me,have you been drinking heavily or just took a draw very badly?

To be honest stadium, it wasn't the draw that was the problem, that I'd take as it keeps us in the hat...it was the p!as poor performance I won't accept and it's not the first time I've said this..
Under Jolley we are not improving, if anything we are regressing..
I honestly believe it's time for MJ to walk the walk now, he's had his chances, he's had his time of goodwill for keeping us out the tinpot and my patience has worn thinner than an 80s porn stars g string now..

Today’s performance was abject. As soon as a bang average Newport sent for the cavalry, we made them look like Liverpool on steroids. Jolley has had a fairly easy ride for long enough but we are regressive with seemingly no plan or method.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Apart from that whoever says he applied for the Lincoln job is a an idiot as they would have needed permission from GTFC to talk to him and as the club technically is a PLC that permission would have had to have been made public by corporate law.

lmao what?!

Quoted from ska face

lmao what?!

First time I've been called an idiot, although I have been married 3 times so Herts could be right..

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

To be honest stadium, it wasn't the draw that was the problem, that I'd take as it keeps us in the hat...it was the p!as poor performance I won't accept and it's not the first time I've said this..
Under Jolley we are not improving, if anything we are regressing..
I honestly believe it's time for MJ to walk the walk now, he's had his chances, he's had his time of goodwill for keeping us out the tinpot and my patience has worn thinner than an 80s porn stars g string now..

That's a fair point
The lack of progress is worrying.

Quoted from ska face

lmao what?!

What’s arrogant about a fact?

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

First time I've been called an idiot, although I have been married 3 times so Herts could be right..

Hey Northbank I’m wasn’t calling you an idiot apologies if it came across that way but maybe whoever told you about Jolley applying for the Lincoln job fits the bill.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Hey Northbank I’m wasn’t calling you an idiot apologies if it came across that way but maybe whoever told you about Jolley applying for the Lincoln job fits the bill.

Herts, I wasn't having a pop, I was having a😀...some bloke sat in front of me happened to tell me this about Jolley...no idea how reliable as I've never met him before but seemed quite convincing at the time...mind you, I think the only job role that would be right for jolley at the moment is ring master for Billy Smart .

Quoted from ska face

lmao what?!

Lol.

I can't wait for the explanation for this... potentially the stupidest thing I have ever read on here...

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Herts, I wasn't having a pop, I was having a😀...some bloke sat in front of me happened to tell me this about Jolley...no idea how reliable as I've never met him before but seemed quite convincing at the time...mind you, I think the only job role that would be right for jolley at the moment is ring master for Billy Smart .

I reckon the clowns will be put out if he was appointed ring master

Every team that Jolly picks is set up defensively whether at home or away. When the team sheet is produced I think it looks as though we are going to attack-but when we start playing we revert to everybody behind the ball. When we attack nobody is supporting-big gap between forwards and midfield. Hess is told to operate just in front of back 4 or 5 or 6. I would like to see him in a more attacking role and support the forwards instead of the defence . Whitehouse is too slow to cover an attacking fullback and too slow to attack himself. I thought Clifton would fit this role but with having to play out of position when ever he does manage to get a game he has lost confidence. I could go on and on but Jolly is not up to par. Why doesn't he play the players in the positions he signed them for and let them play to their strengths. He seems to have tried every one of his theories without success. I have a theory Mr. Jolly and that is that theories don't win matches or please supporters but commonsense does-Please try it sometime.

Funnily enough I listened to Brendan Rodgers on MOTD today regarding vardy...a man who was struggling under their last manager aa he was being asked to play a style that didn't suit him yet all Rogers has done is put him back in a position that suits him and told him to do what he does best...
If MJ had the same philosophy with our players, ie put them in the position that suits them, then they will perform to their optimum capability....play them out of position and they've no chance...so who do we blame?...a player trying his hardest to perform in an alien position or a manager that puts him in that position in the first place??

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Funnily enough I listened to Brendan Rodgers on MOTD today regarding vardy...a man who was struggling under their last manager aa he was being asked to play a style that didn't suit him yet all Rogers has done is put him back in a position that suits him and told him to do what he does best...
If MJ had the same philosophy with our players, ie put them in the position that suits them, then they will perform to their optimum capability....play them out of position and they've no chance...so who do we blame?...a player trying his hardest to perform in an alien position or a manager that puts him in that position in the first place??

I thought the players actually worked quite hard yesterday to be fair

Quoted from HertsGTFC

I thought the players actually worked quite hard yesterday to be fair

I'm not doubting that point, it's putting them in the wrong position for their skill set that's the issue..

Agree with many points in this thread. I’m not having that Rose is going backwards under Jolley though.

He’s given him plenty of chances and shown faith in him, however Rose for me is still yet to prove he can make the step up. The goal at Stevenage was brilliant, and great to see, but I think it’s still only his second professional goal? Not counting check a trade. He’s fast, exciting and a nuisance, but has to start putting the ball in the net more often this season to prove himself.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I'm not doubting that point, it's putting them in the wrong position for their skill set that's the issue..

100%

Paul Tisdale anyone?

Quoted from sydney

Paul Tisdale anyone?

He was only sacked last week because he had lost eight out of the last nine matches-not sure if we would really want him with that round his neck

Yeah we should wait for him to be sacked for winning 8 of the last 9  ;)

Evan if Jolley was to be sacked, and whilst we're comfortable in mid table he's safe, look at Hurst, 6 years, the only new manager is either someone who has just been sacked or an untried newbie, we've tried an old hand in Slade, that wasn't very successful, Jolley is a newbie and at the moment that's not going great.its the look of the draw, a manager and the right players just gelling.

Maldon + Tiptree beat Leyton Orient 2-1 away Remember what Leyton Orient did to us at home. If by some miracle we win the replay against Newport and get drawn away against Maldon + Tiptree the "mathematical" result taking into account Jolly's theories and fkups will be a 23-0 defeat with their goalkeeper scoring a hat trick-but don't worry Cardwell who will be making his debut in goal will be Jolly's secret weapon

Quoted from golfer

Maldon + Tiptree beat Leyton Orient 2-1 away Remember what Leyton Orient did to us at home. If by some miracle we win the replay against Newport and get drawn away against Maldon + Tiptree the "mathematical" result taking into account Jolly's theories and fkups will be a 23-0 defeat with their goalkeeper scoring a hat trick-but don't worry Cardwell who will be making his debut in goal will be Jolly's secret weapon

Sounds about right for Jolley  :-/

Quoted from golfer

Maldon + Tiptree beat Leyton Orient 2-1 away Remember what Leyton Orient did to us at home. If by some miracle we win the replay against Newport and get drawn away against Maldon + Tiptree the "mathematical" result taking into account Jolly's theories and fkups will be a 23-0 defeat with their goalkeeper scoring a hat trick-but don't worry Cardwell who will be making his debut in goal will be Jolly's secret weapon

Maldon and Tiptree were a threat to anyone at this level. It's no surprise that they beat Leyton Orient, who are a poor side.

Quoted from Welwynmariner

Maldon and Tiptree were a threat to anyone at this level. It's no surprise that they beat Leyton Orient, who are a poor side.

That tells me all I need to know about us right now!

Quoted from Welwynmariner

Maldon and Tiptree were a threat to anyone at this level. It's no surprise that they beat Leyton Orient, who are a poor side.

That makes us fking woeful then. We made Clay, Harrold, Alabi and Widdowson look like world beaters.

We're about where we "should" be with the budget we have. Cups have been a bonuses - 4 ties last season and 5 so far this one (and counting). Two big away days at Premier League stadiums.

He's some way off being sacked.

Quoted from GrimRob

We're about where we "should" be with the budget we have. Cups have been a bonuses - 4 ties last season and 5 so far this one (and counting). Two big away days at Premier League stadiums.

He's some way off being sacked.

Well maybe we should have invested the loan repayments in the budget because the current squad and manager will soon have us below where we should be.

Quoted from GrimRob

We're about where we "should" be with the budget we have. Cups have been a bonuses - 4 ties last season and 5 so far this one (and counting). Two big away days at Premier League stadiums.

He's some way off being sacked.

So we're someway off seeing entertaining, front foot, pressing football in that case then!!

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

So we're someway off seeing entertaining, front foot, pressing football in that case then!!

That's the sort of football that does get you the sack as it's riskier. Cautious football keeps you in jobs.If you look at it from a manager's point of view then it's far better to do what it takes to keep a job rather than risk getting sacked and struggling to get another position as good.

Quoted from GrimRob

That's the sort of football that does get you the sack as it's riskier. Cautious football keeps you in jobs.If you look at it from a manager's point of view then it's far better to do what it takes to keep a job rather than risk getting sacked and struggling to get another position as good.

Sarcasm Rob, why promise one thing and deliver another ..makes me question him even more with what you are saying...

Quoted from GrimRob

That's the sort of football that does get you the sack as it's riskier. Cautious football keeps you in jobs.If you look at it from a manager's point of view then it's far better to do what it takes to keep a job rather than risk getting sacked and struggling to get another position as good.

God forbid he plays a style of football that wins points AND entertains! That might even risk an increase in the attendance.

Quoted from GrimRob

That's the sort of football that does get you the sack as it's riskier. Cautious football keeps you in jobs.If you look at it from a manager's point of view then it's far better to do what it takes to keep a job rather than risk getting sacked and struggling to get another position as good.

Well at the moment if what we are playing is cautious football, that isn't working that great as we slip down the League.

Quoted from GrimRob

We're about where we "should" be with the budget we have. Cups have been a bonuses - 4 ties last season and 5 so far this one (and counting). Two big away days at Premier League stadiums.

He's some way off being sacked.

If that is the case with the budget, it doesn't matter which manager we have really.

Lets try another one then - you never know he might win a few games, the team might actually get into the opposition box and we might even make the opposition keeper think twice before having a nap.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

If that is the case with the budget, it doesn't matter which manager we have really.

Lets try another one then - you never know he might win a few games, the team might actually get into the opposition box and we might even make the opposition keeper think twice before having a nap.

7th highest average attendance in the league so far this season together with a trip to Chelsea. Bit disappointing if we have the 18th highest budget.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

7th highest average attendance in the league so far this season together with a trip to Chelsea. Bit disappointing if we have the 18th highest budget.

I didn't realise we were that low in the budget league. When did that bit of information come out or is it just speculation?

Quoted from rancido

I didn't realise we were that low in the budget league. When did that bit of information come out or is it just speculation?

Read above! Rob states that we are about where we should be with our budget.

We have the 8th highest budget in our league-- Montmerency 28 Sept. Micro News

Quoted from golfer

We have the 8th highest budget in our league-- Montmerency 28 Sept. Micro News

What the hell is that? Got a link?

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Well maybe we should have invested the loan repayments in the budget because the current squad and manager will soon have us below where we should be.

I didn't realise it is up to us. I thought John Fenty made all the decisions.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

7th highest average attendance in the league so far this season together with a trip to Chelsea. Bit disappointing if we have the 18th highest budget.

(1) Some clubs have more non-matchday income than us.
(2) Some clubs are overspending.
(3) We have games in hand.
(4) It's not even the halfway point of the season, so you can't expect us to be always where we 'should' be given our budget. After 15 games last season we were on 15 points, 4 less than now. Not a massive difference, but we have >25% more now than the same point last year.

So all things considered, Rob's right, we're probably about where we could be expected to be. He might be on to something about the style of play too. That point was well made by Forza about Hurst with whom Jolley has been compared recently for his negative tactics.

The trip to Chelsea won't have brought in that much money 45% of net receipts, and we all saw how well staffed they were (numbers and quality, and that doesn't come cheap in London), and it was only £10 a ticket. Besides, there hasn't been the opportunity to use it to boost the squad as we haven't had a transfer window since then.

It's frustrating being where we are and playing boring football. I get that. But it's no good blaming the stoker. It's the company that needs sorting out, and what can you do about that?

I don't accept that our style of football is down to budget. It seems to me that some on here are trying to pin the god awful style on Fenty. I'm afraid that it is the manager that dictates the way we play, not the directors. Macclesfield for instance, came here and at least had a go, and played decent football. Are you trying to tell me that they have more money than us which allows them buy better footballers compared to us?

It is a nonsense to claim that lack of money is why we’re playing such a horrendous brand of non-football. Even at the start of the season we were top of the league for expected goals but for some reason Jolley now instructs them to get 10 men behind the ball and just launch it long and straight to an isolated Hanson. There is only one man who has decided on this change of tact and it’s not Fenty.

Quoted from mimma

I don't accept that our style of football is down to budget. It seems to me that some on here are trying to pin the god awful style on Fenty. I'm afraid that it is the manager that dictates the way we play, not the directors. Macclesfield for instance, came here and at least had a go, and played decent football. Are you trying to tell me that they have more money than us which allows them buy better footballers compared to us?

Bob on M91...think some of our frustrations have to based round the fact that we have some decent/good players, certainly good if not better than league 2, and the managers tactics/style of play isn't good enough to get a tune out of them...
No one can put the blame at the door of the board for this, only 2 people set the squad up on a match day ..so limbrick and Jolley have to shoulder the blame for our God awful displays, which is no longer the odd game in isolation, it's been every game since the middle to end of September bar the Exeter game..
I just wish THEY  could see where they're getting it wrong, put players in their natural positions and actually go at a team rather than hoping we get the chance of a counter attack...which again, is a flaw in his tactics as we do not have the natural pace, with the exception of Wright, to be a counter attacking team...
All in all, the management team are failing us as fans and letting the board down that employed them...if Fenty is the fan he proclaims to be then surely he can't be happy with what he's been watching happen on the pitch recently...

Quoted from KingstonMariner

What the hell is that? Got a link?

I know most things but I am embarrassed to say I don't know how to as it's stored on microfiche. If I did manage to do this I believe you would have to be in possession of a microfiche reader yourself. If I could have done this it would have stopped a lot of the rumours. If you want you could always contact the microfiche/microfilm org. in Boston Mass. for further details.Don't forget their time is 4 hours behind us and on Mondays they usually have a tea party. Hope this clears any misunderstandings.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Read above! Rob states that we are about where we should be with our budget.

But what is the budget and what are other clubs budgets? It's easy to come out with figures like "18th in the budget league" but no facts or information to back it up.

Quoted from mimma

I don't accept that our style of football is down to budget. It seems to me that some on here are trying to pin the god awful style on Fenty. I'm afraid that it is the manager that dictates the way we play, not the directors. Macclesfield for instance, came here and at least had a go, and played decent football. Are you trying to tell me that they have more money than us which allows them buy better footballers compared to us?

Absolutely! There are plenty of managers who will use budget as an excuse and aim low so it looks as though they are overachieving. Hurst is one and Jolley is looking more and more like another. On the other hand we have seen Buckley Mk1 for instance with no budget at all and only about 6 signed players when he came get a team to play a passing game even while building up to his best side.

Obviously budget matters but the use of the budget matters more and it is the manager's job to do that and to realise he is in the entertainment industry. That means fans contribute cash and to get it he must provide results first and foremost but some entertaining football will go a long way to keeping fans happy even if the results are not perfect. Doesn't the Exeter game show that it can be done?

So true RonR-the fact is there are no decent results or entertainment. How on earth can Jolly and his team justify being kept in their jobs I will never know. It appears that they don't rehearse or plan anything in training except maybe play tiggy or tag and even that will be stopped too. I know it's cold and you, like the rest of us, like to be sat round the fire but get using the training for what it's meant to be for and start again from scratch with a bit more planning and use the players for the role that you signed them for.

If we can perform like v Exeter each week then we would be flying - I would also say how we played at Walsall and and home to Vale were also good performances -

but we just dont seem to keep up those performances - what a disappointing month October was and we can most probably say the same for November (be surprised if we get anything from Northampton)

Last season we ended with 16 wins and 22 defeats - we currently need another 12 wins to better that and for that to happen something has to change

I've been very defensive of Jolley in the past and advocated that anger is directed toward the board room rather than to him, largely due to the budget constraints I believe he's under.

I still believe that we should direct our main anger towards the higher echelons of this club, that's where the fundamental problems of the last 20 years lie.

However, I'm simply struggling to defend Jolley anymore.  Even more so after that absolutely dreadful show on Saturday.  It was simply shite.

Regardless of budget constraints, Jolley has built an unbalanced squad.  There isn't a body in the building that he hasn't signed or given a new deal to.  They're all his players.  

He's got four central defenders, with very little difference between them in what they bring.  The most composed is the lad who should still be serving the second year of his YTS!  Individually I think Waterfall is a good signing but was he what he needed?  

In midfield where's the variation?  There's nothing in there that's remotely technical or creative.  Our best footballing midfielder is Hessenthaler, a guy who's best used in front of the back four.  

We have no width other than Max Wright, who without we look absolutely toothless.  

In attack we're pathetic.  We've got a guy who can be a focal point, hold play up and bring others into play.  Yet what we're doing is lumping it into corners for him to chase down.  He's supported by a guy (Green) who looks devoid of confidence, fitness and understanding.  Our Plan B is to bring on Rose because of his pace but we don't adjust how we play the balls up to him.  We still lump it and expect him to win it 9 feet in the air against giant defenders.

The one potential variation we have in attack, indeed our whole squad, is Charles Vernam.  I've been a bit disappointed with what he's delivered since arriving permanently and I get that there's probably question marks over his fitness, but when we were crying out for something different he played 63 minutes on loan for Chorley - which also cup ties him so I'm guessing that could be an indication of how Jolley views his future.

I know Hendrie is injured and I'm guessing Hewitt is injured too, which left us without a right wing-back.  The no brainer for me was to go with a back four on Saturday and put Harry Davis at right-back.  Using Jordan Cook as a wing-back is just ridiculous.  Wedded to a system we can't play and shoehorning people into it just to stick with it.

I don't mind grinding results out as and when needed.  But we are awful, not just dogged.  We have no quality, we have no game plan, we have no clear vision, we have nothing at all.  

One argument is let's ride it out until January and let Jolley do some further tweaks to the squad.  The other is do we want to let him loose again?  On reflection have we improved window on window?  Individually I think we've brought good players in, just the balance is wrong.  

I know it wasn't a nice day on Saturday and the FA Cup isn't the glamour it once was.  But having not played for ages and no game next week, you would have expected a better gate.  That's a result of the poor entertainment we're offering.  

Jolley comes across as a nice bloke but that's not what we need.  We need a winner. I've got big reservations if he's that, unfortunately.

  

Footballers like to play football, and don't enjoy playing in a negative manner. I never enjoyed playing negative boring football, and I bet the players don't either. When Gary Birtles was here he wrote in his book about how much he enjoyed it here because the emphasis was on keeping the ball and getting forward to score. Even in training under sir Alan he stated all we did in training was playing football and six a side. Training was enjoyable under AB and it showed on a Saturday afternoon.

Now it's the complete opposite.

When was the last time we were consistently "entertained" at BP? Late 90s? That's before many of our players were born. Even when Buckley came back his methods didn't work any more. I'd love us to play 4-4-2 with genuine wingers because that's what I grew up with but that's deemed as "old school" now as the emphasis is more or not losing.

I've always said that crowds are highest when we win, not when we "entertain". Likewise, a manager's success is deemed almost entirely by metrics like win ratios and points per game. Everyone has become so obsessed with data that I think anyone who deviates from the standard approach is going to be deemed "naive".

Quoted from diehardmariner

I've been very defensive of Jolley in the past and advocated that anger is directed toward the board room rather than to him, largely due to the budget constraints I believe he's under.

I still believe that we should direct our main anger towards the higher echelons of this club, that's where the fundamental problems of the last 20 years lie.

However, I'm simply struggling to defend Jolley anymore.  Even more so after that absolutely dreadful show on Saturday.  It was simply shite.

Regardless of budget constraints, Jolley has built an unbalanced squad.  There isn't a body in the building that he hasn't signed or given a new deal to.  They're all his players.  

He's got four central defenders, with very little difference between them in what they bring.  The most composed is the lad who should still be serving the second year of his YTS!  Individually I think Waterfall is a good signing but was he what he needed?  

In midfield where's the variation?  There's nothing in there that's remotely technical or creative. Our best footballing midfielder is Hessenthaler, a guy who's best used in front of the back four.  

We have no width other than Max Wright, who without we look absolutely toothless.  

In attack we're pathetic.  We've got a guy who can be a focal point, hold play up and bring others into play.  Yet what we're doing is lumping it into corners for him to chase down.  He's supported by a guy (Green) who looks devoid of confidence, fitness and understanding.  Our Plan B is to bring on Rose because of his pace but we don't adjust how we play the balls up to him.  We still lump it and expect him to win it 9 feet in the air against giant defenders.

The one potential variation we have in attack, indeed our whole squad, is Charles Vernam.  I've been a bit disappointed with what he's delivered since arriving permanently and I get that there's probably question marks over his fitness, but when we were crying out for something different he played 63 minutes on loan for Chorley - which also cup ties him so I'm guessing that could be an indication of how Jolley views his future.

I know Hendrie is injured and I'm guessing Hewitt is injured too, which left us without a right wing-back.  The no brainer for me was to go with a back four on Saturday and put Harry Davis at right-back.  Using Jordan Cook as a wing-back is just ridiculous.  Wedded to a system we can't play and shoehorning people into it just to stick with it.

I don't mind grinding results out as and when needed.  But we are awful, not just dogged.  We have no quality, we have no game plan, we have no clear vision, we have nothing at all.  

One argument is let's ride it out until January and let Jolley do some further tweaks to the squad.  The other is do we want to let him loose again?  On reflection have we improved window on window?  Individually I think we've brought good players in, just the balance is wrong.  

I know it wasn't a nice day on Saturday and the FA Cup isn't the glamour it once was.  But having not played for ages and no game next week, you would have expected a better gate.  That's a result of the poor entertainment we're offering.  

Jolley comes across as a nice bloke but that's not what we need.  We need a winner. I've got big reservations if he's that, unfortunately.

  

A couple of points on what is a very sound post DHM...

IMHO Hessenthaler is being played in front of the defence for a reason....  that is because Jolley favours not losing rather than going out for a win.

If he were allowed to be play his game further up the field then who knows if he mightn't be able to get in and around the opposition box more often, meaning he might be more of a goal-scoring threat

As for Max Wright, if our attacking hopes for the season are based on a young (admittedly talented ) lad who only made his first start for the club in the last game of last season then we are clutching at straws.

I get the excitement of him being in the team because he has a turn of pace and an enthusiasm and sense of adventure that could take him a long way in the game, but when all's said and done he's still not the finished article nor is he likely to be for a while yet

As for the right back position on Saturday, I agree with you.... that should have gone to Davis ( Hewitt was off because of his "new arrival" as I understand it )

Davis has played there before, so that should have given us some solidity / balance with Gibson on the left and Waterfall in the centre with either Ohman or Pollock to partner him

My biggest complaint about Saturday is us not really having a go at Newport in the second half..... a second goal before they equalised should have killed off the game

But no.... safety first backfired this time. We got away with it at Cambridge when Macca saved the pen and yeah, we came close to doing it again when Russell nearly kept out Podge's penalty

It's a form of Russian roulette though to just sit back with everyone behind the ball as all we did is hoof it up and wait for them to launch it back in again.

To my mind that's THE reason we didn't win and take the £36K prize money on offer.... Jolley said the players were under pressure so understandable they fell back to try and defend

That's a poor excuse.... he should have been giving instructions to play further up the park and not to have allowed Rose to be the lone player who wasn't camped back towards the Osmond End

It''s not all over in the cup of course.... we're still in the draw but we had the opportunity to leave BP with a win under our belts and a bit of a feel good factor about the 2nd round. Now everyone is just resigned to the replay just being another game of sit back and hope for the best. That's just not good enough

I can't really understand why we sign a big centre forward then don't sign any proper wide players to get the ball into him.

It would seem the only winger we have is Max Wright who Jolley didn't feel was good enough to play for us last season. :(

Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.

Don’t forget Kingston that Jolley came in with a tremendous amount of goodwill, had a bit of luck to set him off and talked a good game. He was also the only one for the job. I was never convinced by him but he stuck those qualifications and all the latest jargon under our noses and we gave him the benefit. Well, the benefit is now over. The second season is always the big test, a year to get the dead wood out, a year to get the side settled and trained in the pressing game we were promised. It is not happening and the choice is now risky whichever route we take. The side needs an injection of confidence and playing style plus game winning nous. That was what we wanted post-Slade and it is still missing. If spinning the wheel is what it means then that’s what must be done but don’t leave it too late this time. We should be putting the snow chains on now perhaps!

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.

At this rate I'll ask one question....what we got to lose??

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

At this rate I'll ask one question....what we got to lose??

relegation to the barren wastes of non league football??

Quoted from forza ivano

relegation to the barren wastes of non league football??

If we keep going the way we are with current incumbent I could see that, just thank our lucky stars there's only 1 place to fight over this year..might give us a fighting chance if maintaining our league status!!

Quoted from arryarryarry

I can't really understand why we sign a big centre forward then don't sign any proper wide players to get the ball into him.

Not just that, either. It's the signing of a strong and aerially dominant centre forward allied with a playing style which means we have absolutely nobody up around him in support to pick up the pieces when he wins aerial challenges (or even narrowly loses them). Midfield too deep, no width and no partnership at all with fellow strikers who are generally too far away to have a chance to pick up any knock downs.

The much-maligned Hurst was often criticised for the unimaginative and often dour tactics of his teams but at least there was usually a pretty clear plan of what was expected, even when it didn't work out. As I've said in the past, I just can't see what the team is trying to do most of the time this season (and last, for that matter).

Last season, we were both slow and lightweight. Not so lightweight this time around, but the only real pace we have comes from Wright and Rose who have about 10 League starts between them. I get that there is likely to be an incremental change to the squad, but this has been much, much too slow when it was glaringly obvious what was lacking last season.

I couldn't make it on Saturday afternoon due to other commitments, but I wasn't too bothered about missing the game because I really wasn't expecting much from the performance, even if we had nicked a win.

The fact that various posters who went to the game aren't quite sure what formation we were actually supposed to be playing isn't a good sign. Then again, is it really too much of a surprise when we seem to have played a different formation in practically every game this season? No wonder that these 4th Division footballers are struggling to cope with the chopping and changing to line-up and formation which is occurring.

Thing is I don't think all the players were sure of the formation we were playing.

I'll gladly admit that I was keen to see Green play in a 2 with Hanson rather than wide in a 3 but, for the life of me, I can't understand what's happened to him. He scored a worldy at Chelsea but ever since seems to have spent large parts of games disinterested or falling over - I'm sure he's trying hard but are we beginning to see why he wasn't even getting a start in the National League last season?

What concerns me more than anything is the number of times our players turn to the bench for instructions. We're not playing FIFA FFS - surely there's a plan discussed in training and everyone knows their role - it does seem that if they forget Plan A then Plan B is hoof it in the general direction of Hanson.

Not for the first time in recent seasons, we appear happy to miss out midfield - which is criminal because Hess & Robson are decent footballers, though I'm unsure about the rest, particularly Whitehouse who looks like he is still suffering from the aftermath of his injury.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.

We have missed the bus again KM  Sol has gone to Southend.  ;D

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Of course a poor budget is a reason for a poor standard of football. Of course some managers can get more out of the resources available than others. If Jolley is as shite as a lot of you are saying, why do you think we didn’t recruit a better manager? And why do you think we will recruit a better one now?

Spin the wheel. Waste a bit more time and money.

We have this debate most seasons about when to change a below par manager.

I think in this case, we have given him all the time he should be allowed. He has had the time to completely change the squad, who should all be playing out of their skins because they are all "his" players.

There is no sign whatever of any improvements - all we have done is change nearly the complete squad for no discernable improvement, either in performances or results.

I think the killer result was Mansfield at home which seems to have killed the season stone dead; we had a great result the week before, Mansfield were having an horrendous time of it and we never made the keeper make a save. The manager and players should have been going full pelt at that game but we were tame, tepid and had no will to deliver a killer blow.

Since then it has gone from bad to worse, we don't know the first 11, we don't know the formation. I think he has been overtaken by his computer stats instead of footballing common sense in playing your best 11 week in week out and the same formation so some continuity could take hold.

Whatever the starting 11/formation it is the lack of a will to win that gets my goat; getting everybody behind the ball all the time is not a will to win, it is admitting defeat. There are very few hard tackles, very few do or die moments, very little fire or excitement to get the crowd going.

This manager seems to have gone the way of all the others - very enthusiastic at the start and plenty of compliments about our history etc - but then it all falls flat. Perhaps this particular oil tanker cannot be turned round.

A fair summary I think.

Spot on L.C.L. - the guy doesn't realise  that if you have players upfield the other team has to have players back marking them.

Quoted from grimsby pete

We have missed the bus again KM  Sol has gone to Southend.  ;D

Neil Warnock is free as of today!

Quoted from Ipswin

Neil Warnock is free as of today!

He would shake things up!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

He would shake things up!

You are not kidding! Half of 'em would be out on their arses in a week (and JSF too probably)

Quoted from Ipswin

Neil Warnock is free as of today!

I am old enough to remember Neil signing for the Scunts as a winger.

Quoted from Ipswin

You are not kidding! Half of 'em would be out on their arses in a week (and JSF too probably)

Should we start a Crowdfunder?

To win matches you need to create chances and we certainly don’t do that now

If Jolley can’t get them to pass and move, then he better jog on

Lives in Cornwall, doesn't he? Not too far for him to come out of retirement at Cardiff. I'm not sure Colin male masturbator would want a 350 mile commute to the Costa del Clee.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Should we start a Crowdfunder?

I'm in

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Should we start a Crowdfunder?

To bring back Bogle on loan for the rest of the season if he falls out of favour with Cardiff's new manager   ;)

Still wouldn't get the right service...

Mr. Jolley now 26th longest serving manager of the 92

How tall is he ?

Quoted from golfer

How tall is he ?

Who Jolley ?  :P

Michael Jolley is now the 26th tallest manager of the 92.

The honeymoon period is over. Patience is wearing thin.

We now need to see some actual progress on the pitch or else things are going to get very ugly very soon. I have never ever seen a walk out like the one in the Orient game.  

Quoted from grimsby pete

I am old enough to remember Neil signing for the Scunts as a whinger.

amended  ;)

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

At this rate I'll ask one question....what we got to lose??

Adding to Forza’s comment .....more debt....

....and as I said, more wasted time.

The odds are we won’t get a better manager or playing squad. What makes you think we’ll get the right man next time?

Quoted from TheRonRaffertyFanClub

Don’t forget Kingston that Jolley came in with a tremendous amount of goodwill, had a bit of luck to set him off and talked a good game. He was also the only one for the job. I was never convinced by him but he stuck those qualifications and all the latest jargon under our noses and we gave him the benefit. Well, the benefit is now over. The second season is always the big test, a year to get the dead wood out, a year to get the side settled and trained in the pressing game we were promised. It is not happening and the choice is now risky whichever route we take. The side needs an injection of confidence and playing style plus game winning nous. That was what we wanted post-Slade and it is still missing. If spinning the wheel is what it means then that’s what must be done but don’t leave it too late this time. We should be putting the snow chains on now perhaps!

But what makes you think we will make the right choice next time? When was the last good managerial selection?

PS I’m wondering what good luck Jolley got when he first joined?

Quoted from grimsby pete

We have missed the bus again KM  Sol has gone to Southend.  ;D

And they look like they could be joining us next season.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Adding to Forza’s comment .....more debt....

....and as I said, more wasted time.

The odds are we won’t get a better manager or playing squad. What makes you think we’ll get the right man next time?

So basically KM your acceptance is that of crap football, tactical ineptness and non-league football??..
If you want my opinion I'd give Dave Moore the opportunity to turn this lot into an half decent footballing side as I do believe the quality is there...Even Woodsy would do better job than Jolley at the moment....the problems isn't the squad, it's the inability of the manager and his staff to organise them into a cohesive unit that understand their roles due to constantly asking them to do what they weren't brought into the club to do...

Getting the right manager, and players, is basically down to luck, for example Man U haven't done too well since Fergie left,also Arsenal's current manager had a worse record over the last 50 games than Wenger, and look at the hassle he got in the final couple of years.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

So basically KM your acceptance is that of crap football, tactical ineptness and non-league football??..
If you want my opinion I'd give Dave Moore the opportunity to turn this lot into an half decent footballing side as I do believe the quality is there...Even Woodsy would do better job than Jolley at the moment....the problems isn't the squad, it's the inability of the manager and his staff to organise them into a cohesive unit that understand their roles due to constantly asking them to do what they weren't brought into the club to do...

I don’t accept crap football. Never said anything of the sort. It’s just all we’d be doing in changing managers now is moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. I think we’re more likely to get more crap football if we spin the wheel now.

A better manager could do better. Of course. Are you confident we will make a better choice? If your answer is ‘yes’ : REALLY?

More fundamental change is needed at the club.

The other factor is as long as other clubs overspend with impunity the odds are further tipped against us.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Getting the right manager, and players, is basically down to luck, for example Man U haven't done too well since Fergie left,also Arsenal's current manager had a worse record over the last 50 games than Wenger, and look at the hassle he got in the final couple of years.

Man Utd weren't shit under David Moyes because of luck, they were shit because they'd appointed David Moyes as manager.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I don’t accept crap football. Never said anything of the sort. It’s just all we’d be doing in changing managers now is moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. I think we’re more likely to get more crap football if we spin the wheel now.

A better manager could do better. Of course. Are you confident we will make a better choice? If your answer is ‘yes’ : REALLY?

More fundamental change is needed at the club.

The other factor is as long as other clubs overspend with impunity the odds are further tipped against us.

Whilst I agree the bigger problem is more deep rooted and the club needs an overhaul starting at the top table, I will not agree that a change of manager won't change things.
Taking Jolley on was a massive gamble and that gamble initially seemed to pay off but now his chips have all gone and the roulette wheel needs spinning again ..
Is there better managers out there than Jolley?who are available,? Undoubtedly...but ones that this board would fund, no!!...
People mention Tisdale, Adkins, Holloway, all out of our reach, but I'm pretty someone, the likes of Sol Campbell, who have an awful lot of football experience, have the badges and just want to get that first rung on the ladder would take the task on of trying to turn this oil tanker round in Sydney Park pond....

If Jolley just picked a settled side and the players were asked to do the same  job every week we would find winning was not so hard .

Quoted from grimsby pete

If Jolley just picked a settled side and the players were asked to do the same  job every week we would find winning was not so hard .

Like even thinking about changing the team that won at Exeter?