Melanie Onn

Quoted from Dogger Bank

The Tories haven't been in charge of the local authority in Grimsby, neither have we had a Tory MP or any other for that matter to try and improve things. As I have stated I have absolutely no allegiance to any political party. I have voted for four parties in my life time, actually mostly Labour in my earlier years. It was then I wasn't clued up, youth is wasted on the young. I would rather have capitalism than socialism anyday of the week. Are you a Guardian reader by any chance Kingston..?

I've purposely kept out of this thread because I have serious reservations about what I perceive to be a major shift in the Labour Party's attitude to the new stadium development (one which I'll be reminding them came about because the council OFFERED GTFC the Parkway site) but having read the thread in its entirety I think it is time for a (recent) history lesson. From 2003 to 2011 N.E. Lincolnshire (there hasn't been a Grimsby council since the mid-1990s) was run by the Tories in coalition with De Freitas's merry band of men and women. From a GTFC perspective that administration oversaw the dismantling of the plan to relocate GTFC to Great Coates. De Freitas (rightly) cops for the majority of the flak for that but it wouldn't have happened without the support of the Tories who dreamt up the marvellous political expedient by which anyone who watched GTFC was disbarred from taking part in the debate or voting, which of course by and large at the time meant Labour local politicians. (J.F. wasn't a councillor for the early part of that particular abomination.) Owing to a sustained national period of growth under Gordon Brown's chancellorship (not a great fan personally but he looks like a genius when compared to Osborne and the current muppet) the financial situation was nationally considerably better than the current Labour administration of NELC have had to work with. Not only did they not use that fact to push ahead with programmes of investment they decided, despite being strongly advised not to do so, to invest OUR money with Icelandic banks a matter of weeks before the banking crash.
Since 2010 the Tory government has progressively reduced the central contribution of cash to Local Authorities to the extent that by 2020 I believe 80% of the money will not be available. For anyone who thinks that those limitations do not pose a significant threat to the provision of services I know that if someone said that my pension was being cut by 80% I'd have to make very significant detrimental changes to my life style. The Tories on NELC are completely disingenuous regarding the subject of finance. Since the cuts started to bite they have had the opportunity each year to propose an alternative budget for the council (something you'd expect the main opposition party to be very keen to do). Every year they have singularly failed to do so. All they've done is jump on individual issues like fortnightly bin collections and the cutting of grass verges without publicly expressing any proposals on how they can afford to repeal those decisions. A matter of two months ago they refused to vote with for the budget put forward by Labour but again wouldn't provide an alternative. It was only with the realisation of the Lib Dems that there was no alternative that the whole situation didn't dissolve into utter chaos-pur political posturing. Who knows-perhaps they are looking at their friends in Northamptonshire County Council who have told central government that they cannot meet their commitments and, as a result, there is the hilarious (unless of course you are resident of that county) situation of a Tory county council being in special measures and on the verge of bankruptcy.
I'll be the first to admit that the Labour Party have made mistakes. Toll Bar has cost them dear over the last few months and the electorate have spoken. It will be interesting to see if the Tories who if the current trend continues, will be in power by this time next year maintain their current support for the Peaks Parkway new ground site. I suspect when faced with the possibility of losing support from the Lib Dems they may miraculously find themselves implaccably opposed to any such thing..

Quoted from barralad

I've purposely kept out of this thread because I have serious reservations about what I perceive to be a major shift in the Labour Party's attitude to the new stadium development (one which I'll be reminding them came about because the council OFFERED GTFC the Parkway site) but having read the thread in its entirety I think it is time for a (recent) history lesson. From 2003 to 2011 N.E. Lincolnshire (there hasn't been a Grimsby council since the mid-1990s) was run by the Tories in coalition with De Freitas's merry band of men and women. From a GTFC perspective that administration oversaw the dismantling of the plan to relocate GTFC to Great Coates. De Freitas (rightly) cops for the majority of the flak for that but it wouldn't have happened without the support of the Tories who dreamt up the marvellous political expedient by which anyone who watched GTFC was disbarred from taking part in the debate or voting, which of course by and large at the time meant Labour local politicians. (J.F. wasn't a councillor for the early part of that particular abomination.) Owing to a sustained national period of growth under Gordon Brown's chancellorship (not a great fan personally but he looks like a genius when compared to Osborne and the current muppet) the financial situation was nationally considerably better than the current Labour administration of NELC have had to work with. Not only did they not use that fact to push ahead with programmes of investment they decided, despite being strongly advised not to do so, to invest OUR money with Icelandic banks a matter of weeks before the banking crash.
Since 2010 the Tory government has progressively reduced the central contribution of cash to Local Authorities to the extent that by 2020 I believe 80% of the money will not be available. For anyone who thinks that those limitations do not pose a significant threat to the provision of services I know that if someone said that my pension was being cut by 80% I'd have to make very significant detrimental changes to my life style. The Tories on NELC are completely disingenuous regarding the subject of finance. Since the cuts started to bite they have had the opportunity each year to propose an alternative budget for the council (something you'd expect the main opposition party to be very keen to do). Every year they have singularly failed to do so. All they've done is jump on individual issues like fortnightly bin collections and the cutting of grass verges without publicly expressing any proposals on how they can afford to repeal those decisions. A matter of two months ago they refused to vote with for the budget put forward by Labour but again wouldn't provide an alternative. It was only with the realisation of the Lib Dems that there was no alternative that the whole situation didn't dissolve into utter chaos-pur political posturing. Who knows-perhaps they are looking at their friends in Northamptonshire County Council who have told central government that they cannot meet their commitments and, as a result, there is the hilarious (unless of course you are resident of that county) situation of a Tory county council being in special measures and on the verge of bankruptcy.
I'll be the first to admit that the Labour Party have made mistakes. Toll Bar has cost them dear over the last few months and the electorate have spoken. It will be interesting to see if the Tories who if the current trend continues, will be in power by this time next year maintain their current support for the Peaks Parkway new ground site. I suspect when faced with the possibility of losing support from the Lib Dems they may miraculously find themselves implaccably opposed to any such thing..

I seem to recall that a precedent had been set when Liverpool wanted to improve Anfield. Any Councillors who were either STH or regular attendees at Anfield were not allowed to vote on any development matters because of a " conflict of interests ". I'm sure this was in the late 90's but my memory isn't too sure about the time.
Also, didn't Liverpool Council face the possibility of going bust many years ago when it was Labour controlled with Derek Hatton as it's leader?

Quoted from KingstonMariner

There's little local government can do, as its had its hands tied over the last 40 years. Less and less control over any services bar bins, bogs and libraries. Not even schools now. All they can do is administer the admissions process each year with all these academies running schools. It's the government that calls the shots and 2/3 of the last 40 years we've had Tory governments. So its odd how you blame Labour yet they've had far less opportunity to do anything.

The fact you criticise Melanie One for being a poor MP at the same time as saying that if the Tories had put up  decent candidate, says it all. So what you're saying is both major parties put up crap candidates in GY. Yet somehow it is Labour who is in the wrong, not both of them.

As for reading the Guardian, are you a Daily Mail reader?

I said if the Tories had chosen a better candidate meaning one that was local and knew the area like the Cleethorpes MP, the fact he's a Tory is irrelevant to me. Mitchell on his last election only won by about 300 votes if my memory serves me right against Victoria Ayling. I don't think Melanie Onn's victories have been that ground breaking so I assume the people of Grimsby are getting more disgruntled with having a Labour MP, unfortunately not enough of them. I actually don't care what party a candidate represents as long as they have the best interests of the town at heart and fully represent the wishes of the people who live here, Melanie Onn doesn't fit that category.

I don't have an allegiance to any paper but the Guardian fits around your views....soft.

Quoted from Dogger Bank

I said if the Tories had chosen a better candidate meaning one that was local and knew the area like the Cleethorpes MP, the fact he's a Tory is irrelevant to me. Mitchell on his last election only won by about 300 votes if my memory serves me right against Victoria Ayling. I don't think Melanie Onn's victories have been that ground breaking so I assume the people of Grimsby are getting more disgruntled with having a Labour MP, unfortunately not enough of them. I actually don't care what party a candidate represents as long as they have the best interests of the town at heart and fully represent the wishes of the people who live here, Melanie Onn doesn't fit that category.

I don't have an allegiance to any paper but the Guardian fits around your views....soft.

You do know Melanie Onn was born in and grew up in the town?

Quoted from rancido

I seem to recall that a precedent had been set when Liverpool wanted to improve Anfield. Any Councillors who were either STH or regular attendees at Anfield were not allowed to vote on any development matters because of a " conflict of interests ". I'm sure this was in the late 90's but my memory isn't too sure about the time.
Also, didn't Liverpool Council face the possibility of going bust many years ago when it was Labour controlled with Derek Hatton as it's leader?

You surely aren't equating NELC in it's current format with a Militant run Labour council?

For what it is worth I think you are entirely right about the Liverpool thing. It created a totally unfair scenario locally though..

Quoted from Dogger Bank

I said if the Tories had chosen a better candidate meaning one that was local and knew the area like the Cleethorpes MP, the fact he's a Tory is irrelevant to me. Mitchell on his last election only won by about 300 votes if my memory serves me right against Victoria Ayling. I don't think Melanie Onn's victories have been that ground breaking so I assume the people of Grimsby are getting more disgruntled with having a Labour MP, unfortunately not enough of them. I actually don't care what party a candidate represents as long as they have the best interests of the town at heart and fully represent the wishes of the people who live here, Melanie Onn doesn't fit that category.

I don't have an allegiance to any paper but the Guardian fits around your views....soft.

I'm intrigued by your definition of ground breaking. Circa 4K more people voted Labour in 2017 than had voted for the party and same candidate in 2015. That would suggest that far from being disgruntled with the sitting M.P. her constituents are, broadly speaking, liking what is on offer. Her majority was cut in half but that was almost exclusively down to the Tory UKIPpers who returned in slightly greater numbers to their Tory home than previously Labour UKIPpers did to theirs. I'd love to see your evidence for the opinion that a local lass doesn't have the best interests of the town at heart.
As for Austin Mitchell. He came close to losing in 2010 because he put little or no effort into his campaign thinking it was a foregone conclusion. His majority was just over 700 by the way which was close to what it actually was when he was elected in 1977.
Generally speaking I don't much like the Tory party but the area could do a lot worse than Vickers. He doesn't always toe the Tory line and he has recognised the importance (as has Ms Onn) of working together for the benefit of the area.
By the way to bring the newspaper someone may or may not read into a debate shows weakness of argument...

And don't forget it would be Mclusky from Unite that would be pulling the strings.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

You do know Melanie Onn was born in and grew up in the town?

Yes I do Headingly. It was not the only prerequisite I would have in choosing an MP when I vote. My point was that is the only thing she has in common with her electorate. And if another party, in this case the Tories and probably even UKIP had chosen local candidates they would have maybe won in the last two or three elections. Melanie Onn used her birth place as a big reason to vote for her as if it made her more understanding of the people she was representing but she doesn't. Like I mentioned she's a career politician who changes her outlook because it will get her what she wants and not what is best for the town or people who live in it.

Quoted from barralad

By the way to bring the newspaper someone may or may not read into a debate shows weakness of argument...

I can vouch for this, since I'm a Guardian-reading Tory and know full well Barralad is a Telegraph-reading socialist, though I couldn't say if that's still the case given the decline in their cricket coverage.

Any chance of some footy talk