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The myth of tinkering?!

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salfordmariner
September 29, 2014, 2:28pm Report to Moderator
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I know some has been said already about this but here are my thoughts.

I think this is a huge myth. I don't see how hurst tinkers or dabbles about with the team anymore than most managers. He makes personnel changes that are necessary due to injury or suspension with the odd tactical (or other due to information we are not aware of) change.

From quickly looking at our team-sheets (so may not be 100percent accurate) For the last last ten games hurst has made four unforced changes. Disley in for paddy for the Lincoln game. Doig for bignot at Halifax. Parslow for Doig at kiddy And Oates in for Disley for the chester game. Not exactly wholesale changes as led to believe.

All the other changes are because of injuries or Boyce going back to his parent club

In terms of the change of tactics- changing from a 442....433/451.....4-3-1-2 . I personally think this is a good thing. The ability to change systems with pretty much the same starting 11 to give us other options. It's a plan B and C. If we couldn't change systems like the last few years we would become too predictable ..... Which is exactly what we became in the second half of the last few seasons. Burnley are getting criticised on the BBC today for not having a plan B. We get criticised for having one and using it at our managers discretion.
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grimsby pete
September 29, 2014, 2:34pm Report to Moderator

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To be fair to Hurst he has had a few injuries to contend with,

As long as he does not drop Clay for Disley again,

I think he knows what his best side is,

If they all can stay fit.


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salfordmariner
September 29, 2014, 2:45pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from grimsby pete
To be fair to Hurst he has had a few injuries to contend with,

As long as he does not drop Clay for Disley again,

I think he knows what his best side is,

If they all can stay fit.


Could be wrong but am pretty certain clay was carrying a knock when that happened and deemed not fit to start.
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chrissy
September 29, 2014, 2:54pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from salfordmariner


Could be wrong but am pretty certain clay was carrying a knock when that happened and deemed not fit to start.


I think you are right, Clay was on the bench not 100%.


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grimsby pete
September 29, 2014, 2:58pm Report to Moderator

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I seem to remember Clay coming on as a sub but not sure.


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Codswede
September 29, 2014, 3:14pm Report to Moderator

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I'd argue that the majority of the discontent with the tinkering was due to the nature of it rather than the actual tinkering itself. Playing players out of position ahead of others and certainly the lack of trust in two YTs who have proved themselves capable to many fans.

The OP makes comment about a Plan B, I don't actually see hursts tinkering as a Plan B, actually just alternative formations to set up based on the opposition which winds me up, because after all, we are Grimsby Town, and we are better than Dover and Nuneaton and we shouldnt worry about their players but mainly the strengths of our own. The lack of Plan B during games can be frustrating, there are times when we don't look like creating a chance and its left until the last ten mins to make a change.

All this said, his recent 'tinkerings' have proved fruitful, bringing on Oates at Kidderminster turned out to be a master-stroke for example. I think he is tactically capable, I just still see the same stubbornness that existed between him and RS over the previous couple of seasons, which I believe have cost us promotion and could again.


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salfordmariner
September 29, 2014, 3:30pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Codswede
I'd argue that the majority of the discontent with the tinkering was due to the nature of it rather than the actual tinkering itself. Playing players out of position ahead of others and certainly the lack of trust in two YTs who have proved themselves capable to many fans.

The OP makes comment about a Plan B, I don't actually see hursts tinkering as a Plan B, actually just alternative formations to set up based on the opposition which winds me up, because after all, we are Grimsby Town, and we are better than Dover and Nuneaton and we shouldnt worry about their players but mainly the strengths of our own. The lack of Plan B during games can be frustrating, there are times when we don't look like creating a chance and its left until the last ten mins to make a change.

All this said, his recent 'tinkerings' have proved fruitful, bringing on Oates at Kidderminster turned out to be a master-stroke for example. I think he is tactically capable, I just still see the same stubbornness that existed between him and RS over the previous couple of seasons, which I believe have cost us promotion and could again.


Interesting points.

'The playing of certain players out of position over others'.....  Does this actually happen that often?

In terms of playing different systems to only nullify the opposition, I would be interested to know where did this originally come from? A direct quote from hurst? 'We are changing tactics completely because we are worried about Dover?' Or is it just assumed that if we change tactics against a team it's only to nullify them and not to focus on their weak points?

I would also say that trust in the youth team players is another subject completely.


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TheRonRaffertyFanClub
September 29, 2014, 3:34pm Report to Moderator
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There is sense in tinkering when you have to play certain teams that play a certain way. Broadly speaking there are a few teams that play what we would call football and a lot more who play sky ball. You have to adapt to both and in that respect Hurst is getting better. Horses for courses I think is the saying. My complaint is that he hasn't got the right players up front but stubbornly believes that he has, and he is too slow (or frightened?)  to change tactics and players during a game.

Oh, and nobody seems able to take a decent dead ball kick.


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120797
September 29, 2014, 4:14pm Report to Moderator
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I'm so grateful it's not just me.
Thankyou salford !

Ok you can over-tinker but there's nothing wrong with mass tinkering if you win.
The weaker team you can field to get that win the better.
No point in using a sledgehammer to crack a nut (just so long as you DO crack it with a smaller hammer)
This is why it's a brave managerial call.

Seasons ago (especially in the Trophy) most suggested I was off my rocker for wanting to play an understrength team in the early rounds.

The fact that the team often won and progressed seemed to make little difference to opinion - i.e. it was tinkering so it was wrong...

What we're facing tomorrow is a question of whether to stick to the one size fits all "never change a winning team" myth.
Or e.g. bring in LJL.
As for Disley, it would be a very brave call but the fact he's already got a few games under his belt won't do him any harm.
The alternative is to leave him (and Paddy?) out all season - is this really utlilizing the entire squad to give us the best chance ?  

Whatever happens, I just hope people will wait for the end result before they start protesting while also appreciating it's a marathon and not just all about the next game.

I find it impossible to believe the same 11 players can play every game until the end of the season without the odd break here and there.
The fact Hurst has already started subbing Neilson (quite rightly when you're ahead), may suggest it's already a concern long term.

It's also about picking the right players for different situations and keeping/getting those not involved match fit in the case we pick up injuries and they need to come in anyway.
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120797
September 29, 2014, 4:25pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Codswede
actually just alternative formations to set up based on the opposition which winds me up, because after all, we are Grimsby Town, and we are better than Dover and Nuneaton

With 8 players out injured, I'm not so sure there's that much in it !
It's alright fans saying Hurst should "go for it" every time, but it's not their head on the chopping block if he ignores the opposition's strengths and we lose and end up in a state of mass protest.
Yes I know draws are little comfort but I can forgive him when we had our chances to win but players just didn't take them.
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