Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › The myth of tinkering?!
Users Browsing Forum
Googlebot and 111 Guests

The myth of tinkering?!

  This thread currently has 4,289 views. Print
5 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 All Recommend Thread
3610
September 29, 2014, 2:28pm
Guest User
I know some has been said already about this but here are my thoughts.

I think this is a huge myth. I don't see how hurst tinkers or dabbles about with the team anymore than most managers. He makes personnel changes that are necessary due to injury or suspension with the odd tactical (or other due to information we are not aware of) change.

From quickly looking at our team-sheets (so may not be 100percent accurate) For the last last ten games hurst has made four unforced changes. Disley in for paddy for the Lincoln game. Doig for bignot at Halifax. Parslow for Doig at kiddy And Oates in for Disley for the chester game. Not exactly wholesale changes as led to believe.

All the other changes are because of injuries or Boyce going back to his parent club

In terms of the change of tactics- changing from a 442....433/451.....4-3-1-2 . I personally think this is a good thing. The ability to change systems with pretty much the same starting 11 to give us other options. It's a plan B and C. If we couldn't change systems like the last few years we would become too predictable ..... Which is exactly what we became in the second half of the last few seasons. Burnley are getting criticised on the BBC today for not having a plan B. We get criticised for having one and using it at our managers discretion.
Logged
E-mail
grimsby pete
September 29, 2014, 2:34pm

Exile
Posts: 49,165
Posts Per Day: 10.85
Reputation: 81.48%
Rep Score: +124 / -28
Location: Suffolk
Approval: +14,823
Gold Stars: 20
To be fair to Hurst he has had a few injuries to contend with,

As long as he does not drop Clay for Disley again,

I think he knows what his best side is,

If they all can stay fit.


                             Over 34 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             66 Years following the Town
                             Paul Hurst Black and White Army
                             New Owners.  New Begining.
                                      
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 1 - 47
3610
September 29, 2014, 2:45pm
Guest User
Quoted from grimsby pete
To be fair to Hurst he has had a few injuries to contend with,

As long as he does not drop Clay for Disley again,

I think he knows what his best side is,

If they all can stay fit.


Could be wrong but am pretty certain clay was carrying a knock when that happened and deemed not fit to start.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 2 - 47
chrissy
September 29, 2014, 2:54pm

I LOVE GRIMSBY TOWN
Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 767
Posts Per Day: 0.17
Reputation: 74.7%
Rep Score: +7 / -3
Approval: +430
Quoted from 3610


Could be wrong but am pretty certain clay was carrying a knock when that happened and deemed not fit to start.


I think you are right, Clay was on the bench not 100%.


I LOVE GRIMSBY TOWN









Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 3 - 47
grimsby pete
September 29, 2014, 2:58pm

Exile
Posts: 49,165
Posts Per Day: 10.85
Reputation: 81.48%
Rep Score: +124 / -28
Location: Suffolk
Approval: +14,823
Gold Stars: 20
I seem to remember Clay coming on as a sub but not sure.


                             Over 34 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             66 Years following the Town
                             Paul Hurst Black and White Army
                             New Owners.  New Begining.
                                      
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 4 - 47
Codswede
September 29, 2014, 3:14pm

Upper Findus
Table Wine Drinker
Posts: 743
Posts Per Day: 0.19
Reputation: 77.57%
Rep Score: +6 / -2
Location: Mudrat
Approval: +300
I'd argue that the majority of the discontent with the tinkering was due to the nature of it rather than the actual tinkering itself. Playing players out of position ahead of others and certainly the lack of trust in two YTs who have proved themselves capable to many fans.

The OP makes comment about a Plan B, I don't actually see hursts tinkering as a Plan B, actually just alternative formations to set up based on the opposition which winds me up, because after all, we are Grimsby Town, and we are better than Dover and Nuneaton and we shouldnt worry about their players but mainly the strengths of our own. The lack of Plan B during games can be frustrating, there are times when we don't look like creating a chance and its left until the last ten mins to make a change.

All this said, his recent 'tinkerings' have proved fruitful, bringing on Oates at Kidderminster turned out to be a master-stroke for example. I think he is tactically capable, I just still see the same stubbornness that existed between him and RS over the previous couple of seasons, which I believe have cost us promotion and could again.


ATAW
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 5 - 47
3610
September 29, 2014, 3:30pm
Guest User
Quoted from Codswede
I'd argue that the majority of the discontent with the tinkering was due to the nature of it rather than the actual tinkering itself. Playing players out of position ahead of others and certainly the lack of trust in two YTs who have proved themselves capable to many fans.

The OP makes comment about a Plan B, I don't actually see hursts tinkering as a Plan B, actually just alternative formations to set up based on the opposition which winds me up, because after all, we are Grimsby Town, and we are better than Dover and Nuneaton and we shouldnt worry about their players but mainly the strengths of our own. The lack of Plan B during games can be frustrating, there are times when we don't look like creating a chance and its left until the last ten mins to make a change.

All this said, his recent 'tinkerings' have proved fruitful, bringing on Oates at Kidderminster turned out to be a master-stroke for example. I think he is tactically capable, I just still see the same stubbornness that existed between him and RS over the previous couple of seasons, which I believe have cost us promotion and could again.


Interesting points.

'The playing of certain players out of position over others'.....  Does this actually happen that often?

In terms of playing different systems to only nullify the opposition, I would be interested to know where did this originally come from? A direct quote from hurst? 'We are changing tactics completely because we are worried about Dover?' Or is it just assumed that if we change tactics against a team it's only to nullify them and not to focus on their weak points?

I would also say that trust in the youth team players is another subject completely.


Logged
E-mail
Reply: 6 - 47
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
September 29, 2014, 3:34pm
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,317
Posts Per Day: 1.61
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,157
Gold Stars: 1
There is sense in tinkering when you have to play certain teams that play a certain way. Broadly speaking there are a few teams that play what we would call football and a lot more who play sky ball. You have to adapt to both and in that respect Hurst is getting better. Horses for courses I think is the saying. My complaint is that he hasn't got the right players up front but stubbornly believes that he has, and he is too slow (or frightened?)  to change tactics and players during a game.

Oh, and nobody seems able to take a decent dead ball kick.


“I think I'm goin' back
To the things I learned so well in my youth
I think I'm returning to
Those days when I was young enough to know the truth."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 7 - 47
120797
September 29, 2014, 4:14pm
Guest User
I'm so grateful it's not just me.
Thankyou salford !

Ok you can over-tinker but there's nothing wrong with mass tinkering if you win.
The weaker team you can field to get that win the better.
No point in using a sledgehammer to crack a nut (just so long as you DO crack it with a smaller hammer)
This is why it's a brave managerial call.

Seasons ago (especially in the Trophy) most suggested I was off my rocker for wanting to play an understrength team in the early rounds.

The fact that the team often won and progressed seemed to make little difference to opinion - i.e. it was tinkering so it was wrong...

What we're facing tomorrow is a question of whether to stick to the one size fits all "never change a winning team" myth.
Or e.g. bring in LJL.
As for Disley, it would be a very brave call but the fact he's already got a few games under his belt won't do him any harm.
The alternative is to leave him (and Paddy?) out all season - is this really utlilizing the entire squad to give us the best chance ?  

Whatever happens, I just hope people will wait for the end result before they start protesting while also appreciating it's a marathon and not just all about the next game.

I find it impossible to believe the same 11 players can play every game until the end of the season without the odd break here and there.
The fact Hurst has already started subbing Neilson (quite rightly when you're ahead), may suggest it's already a concern long term.

It's also about picking the right players for different situations and keeping/getting those not involved match fit in the case we pick up injuries and they need to come in anyway.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 8 - 47
120797
September 29, 2014, 4:25pm
Guest User
Quoted from Codswede
actually just alternative formations to set up based on the opposition which winds me up, because after all, we are Grimsby Town, and we are better than Dover and Nuneaton

With 8 players out injured, I'm not so sure there's that much in it !
It's alright fans saying Hurst should "go for it" every time, but it's not their head on the chopping block if he ignores the opposition's strengths and we lose and end up in a state of mass protest.
Yes I know draws are little comfort but I can forgive him when we had our chances to win but players just didn't take them.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 9 - 47
MeanwoodMariner
September 29, 2014, 4:25pm

Champagne Drinker
Posts: 2,313
Posts Per Day: 0.48
Reputation: 79.34%
Rep Score: +19 / -5
Approval: +2,604
I agree with the OP. There's also the myth of him having "favourites" who are undroppable. I think Disley has played fewer games than any of the other centre mids but every time he does get a game someone says he's picking his favourites again.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 10 - 47
120797
September 29, 2014, 4:34pm
Guest User
What a great point !  
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 11 - 47
ginnywings
September 29, 2014, 5:16pm

Meths Drinker
Posts: 23,318
Posts Per Day: 5.25
Reputation: 73.33%
Rep Score: +83 / -31
Approval: +37,994
Gold Stars: 14
Nothing wrong with changing personnel and players, as well as formations. I just don't think he is very astute at it.  I also think that he is very slow to make changes and never to my knowledge has made a change at half time. Think ljl  should have been on sooner on Saturday for instance. Get the feeling he is 're-active rather than active.

Then again, I'm a joiner, so what the hell do I know?


notonemorepenny
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 12 - 47
chiangmaimariner
September 29, 2014, 5:28pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,649
Posts Per Day: 0.34
Reputation: 81.22%
Rep Score: +18 / -4
Location: Chiang Mai
Approval: +1,301
Gold Stars: 1
If a manager isn't "tinkering" with his team he isn't doing his job, surely?


If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 13 - 47
120797
September 29, 2014, 5:33pm
Guest User
I also think he's a little slow to make some changes too.
But in his defence, if you react too quickly and it goes wrong, you look like completely clueless.

One that I vaguely remember is the Kiddy one where he admitted post match he was thinking about changing things sooner but said sometimes you've got to allow the game to settle down. (or words to that effect)

What's been more a concern for me over past seasons is the slow starts.
I hope we can continue to get on the front foot from the off more often than not.

Quoted from chiangmaimariner
If a manager isn't "tinkering" with his team he isn't doing his job, surely?

Exactly - team picks itself after a win ? I think not...
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 14 - 47
chaos33
September 29, 2014, 6:29pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 8,520
Posts Per Day: 2.55
Reputation: 71.63%
Rep Score: +63 / -26
Location: The mountains
Approval: +10,280
A lot of really good points in this thread.


"You should do what you love while you can"
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 15 - 47
grimsby pete
September 29, 2014, 7:02pm

Exile
Posts: 49,165
Posts Per Day: 10.85
Reputation: 81.48%
Rep Score: +124 / -28
Location: Suffolk
Approval: +14,823
Gold Stars: 20
I bet Paul has a really good laugh when he reads this thread,

AND

We know he does.


                             Over 34 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             66 Years following the Town
                             Paul Hurst Black and White Army
                             New Owners.  New Begining.
                                      
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 16 - 47
Garth
September 29, 2014, 7:15pm

Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 11,157
Posts Per Day: 2.31
Reputation: 80.75%
Rep Score: +55 / -13
Approval: +4,710
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from ginnywings
Nothing wrong with changing personnel and players, as well as formations. I just don't think he is very astute at it.  I also think that he is very slow to make changes and never to my knowledge has made a change at half time. Think ljl  should have been on sooner on Saturday for instance. Get the feeling he is 're-active rather than active.

Then again, I'm a joiner, so what the hell do I know?


You may be able to advise him on draws
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 17 - 47
barralad
September 29, 2014, 7:24pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,388
Posts Per Day: 2.79
Reputation: 81.07%
Rep Score: +82 / -19
Approval: +7,201
Gold Stars: 12
Quoted from 3610


Interesting points.

'The playing of certain players out of position over others'.....  Does this actually happen that often?

In terms of playing different systems to only nullify the opposition, I would be interested to know where did this originally come from? A direct quote from hurst? 'We are changing tactics completely because we are worried about Dover?' Or is it just assumed that if we change tactics against a team it's only to nullify them and not to focus on their weak points?

I would also say that trust in the youth team players is another subject completely.





Excellent point IMO


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 18 - 47
3610
September 29, 2014, 7:25pm
Guest User
Quoted from ginnywings
I just don't think he is very astute at it.  



If that's your opinion then fair enough- no arguing with that.  I just find it very hard to come to that conclusion on something that isn't measurable in anyway.

If you make changes and you win. It doesn't mean those changes were the right ones.

If you make changes and lose. It doesn't mean those changes were the wrong ones.

There is no real way of telling for sure one way or another. We may have won or lost by more without any changes?!

Interesting how you think he is re active- when many people believe he is a 'tinkerer' which would suggest he is over 'pro active' in their eyes! All about opinions!
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 19 - 47
barralad
September 29, 2014, 7:30pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,388
Posts Per Day: 2.79
Reputation: 81.07%
Rep Score: +82 / -19
Approval: +7,201
Gold Stars: 12
Quoted from ginnywings
Nothing wrong with changing personnel and players, as well as formations. I just don't think he is very astute at it.  I also think that he is very slow to make changes and never to my knowledge has made a change at half time. Think ljl  should have been on sooner on Saturday for instance. Get the feeling he is 're-active rather than active.

Then again, I'm a joiner, so what the hell do I know?


We said the same. Oates had gone before the hour mark....



I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 20 - 47
DocTower
September 29, 2014, 7:32pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,709
Posts Per Day: 0.38
Reputation: 71.66%
Rep Score: +10 / -5
Approval: +1,223
Quoted from ginnywings
Nothing wrong with changing personnel and players, as well as formations. I just don't think he is very astute at it.  I also think that he is very slow to make changes and never to my knowledge has made a change at half time. Think ljl  should have been on sooner on Saturday for instance. Get the feeling he is 're-active rather than active.

Then again, I'm a joiner, so what the hell do I know?


On the same wave length as you . Slow to change , Oaks was running on empty on 60 mins . Regarding the formations of 4 5 1 0r 4 4 2 or 4 3 3 . It was mentioned on tv that even in the premier it takes them , who are better quality and more skillful than us, a few games to get accustomed to that particular style

Then again I'm old and don't know what I'm on about !
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 21 - 47
Tom13
September 29, 2014, 7:58pm
Fine Wine Drinker
Posts: 1,281
Posts Per Day: 0.43
Reputation: 90.32%
Rep Score: +10 / 0
Approval: +270
Quoted from ginnywings
Nothing wrong with changing personnel and players, as well as formations. I just don't think he is very astute at it.  I also think that he is very slow to make changes and never to my knowledge has made a change at half time. Think ljl  should have been on sooner on Saturday for instance. Get the feeling he is 're-active rather than active.

Then again, I'm a joiner, so what the hell do I know?


Totally agree with the OP but this is a very valid point, it often frustrates me when players who look exhausted have to play on until the 70th minute or when we're losing and the changes aren't made until the 65th minute, often 10 minutes too late.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 22 - 47
120797
September 29, 2014, 9:43pm
Guest User
Perhaps the point being missed about Oates is he hadn't had a lot of game time and needed mins under his belt.
So still think Hurst did the right thing keeping him on for a bit longer, giving him a good blow out.
Hopefully it will have done him the world of good and he will strip fitter in the future.

Logged
E-mail
Reply: 23 - 47
chaos33
September 29, 2014, 11:03pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 8,520
Posts Per Day: 2.55
Reputation: 71.63%
Rep Score: +63 / -26
Location: The mountains
Approval: +10,280
That is a good point. The only way Oates is going to gain fitness and experience/knowledge is to get game time under his belt and we need him to do that to get the best out of him. That said, I think it's almost a dead cert that he will be replaced by LJL on Tuesday (seems to be a consensus that this is what we should do too) and will have to be content with coming off the bench. I think, if you see Oates coming on as a sub at 60 - 70 mins or so, you'd have some confidence that he could score a goal or cause problems for tiring defenders, especially big, slow-turning types like Macdonald.


"You should do what you love while you can"
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 24 - 47
headingly_mariner
September 30, 2014, 9:42am

Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 4,993
Posts Per Day: 1.05
Reputation: 68.67%
Rep Score: +34 / -17
Approval: +7,285
Gold Stars: 11
Quoted from barralad


We said the same. Oates had gone before the hour mark....



True but the game was won, the lad needs minutes on the pitch to get fit and Lenny was coming back from an injury, it wasnt an urgent situation.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 25 - 47
Garth
September 30, 2014, 10:01am

Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 11,157
Posts Per Day: 2.31
Reputation: 80.75%
Rep Score: +55 / -13
Approval: +4,710
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from headingly_mariner


True but the game was won, the lad needs minutes on the pitch to get fit and Lenny was coming back from an injury, it wasnt an urgent situation.


Agree, different if we were losing
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 26 - 47
120797
September 30, 2014, 4:40pm
Guest User
Quoted from chaos33
That is a good point. The only way Oates is going to gain fitness and experience/knowledge is to get game time under his belt and we need him to do that to get the best out of him. That said, I think it's almost a dead cert that he will be replaced by LJL on Tuesday (seems to be a consensus that this is what we should do too) and will have to be content with coming off the bench. I think, if you see Oates coming on as a sub at 60 - 70 mins or so, you'd have some confidence that he could score a goal or cause problems for tiring defenders, especially big, slow-turning types like Macdonald.

Good points in return !

Have to say I don't think it would necessarily be so terrible to see the same lineup.
What I'm wondering is whether LJL is the type of player who could change a game.
On the one hand he's big so maybe this constitutes a "Plan B".
On the other, he's not what you'd call a "grab you a goal" player per se. (though judging by when he came on Sat looked unlucky)

I suppose Oates has certainly fitted into the "change a game" category though.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 27 - 47
rancido
September 30, 2014, 5:00pm

Vodka Drinker
Posts: 6,304
Posts Per Day: 1.31
Reputation: 79.97%
Rep Score: +40 / -10
Approval: +4,100
Quoted from Garth


You may be able to advise him on draws



.......or dovetailing a team together!


The Future is Black & White.
"The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 28 - 47
grimsby pete
September 30, 2014, 5:15pm

Exile
Posts: 49,165
Posts Per Day: 10.85
Reputation: 81.48%
Rep Score: +124 / -28
Location: Suffolk
Approval: +14,823
Gold Stars: 20
This thread is getting plane daft.


                             Over 34 years living in Suffolk but always a mariner.
                             66 Years following the Town
                             Paul Hurst Black and White Army
                             New Owners.  New Begining.
                                      
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 29 - 47
120797
September 30, 2014, 5:59pm
Guest User
I thought you wood chip in Pete.
Can we please stick to the joint ?
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 30 - 47
TAGG
September 30, 2014, 11:36pm

Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,869
Posts Per Day: 0.88
Reputation: 57.55%
Rep Score: +25 / -22
Approval: +2,019
Gold Stars: 4
Talking about tinkering.
We had Hannah & Oates up front on Saturday and won at a canter playing some great stuff on the deck. So Hurst "tinkers" and drops Oates and sticks in LJL thus changing the whole dynamic of the way we played tonight.
It was easy for Big Mac to mop up everything that was lobed into LJL tonight.
Why change a winning team???????????????????


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 31 - 47
Maringer
September 30, 2014, 11:54pm
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 8,384
Posts Per Day: 1.73
Reputation: 84.96%
Rep Score: +54 / -9
Approval: +8,944
Gold Stars: 3
Oates did pretty much nothing on Saturday so a change was understandable.

The difference was that Chester weren't up and at 'em in the same way as Southport tonight and, of course, the rest of our players weren't simply awful on Saturday as they were tonight.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 32 - 47
TAGG
October 1, 2014, 12:06am

Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,869
Posts Per Day: 0.88
Reputation: 57.55%
Rep Score: +25 / -22
Approval: +2,019
Gold Stars: 4
Quoted from Maringer
Oates did pretty much nothing on Saturday so a change was understandable.

The difference was that Chester weren't up and at 'em in the same way as Southport tonight and, of course, the rest of our players weren't simply awful on Saturday as they were tonight.


If you read my post you will see Im saying that we played the ball on the deck with Oates and Hannah and did very well with that system so why change??????????.
Sticking LJL in (not criticising LJL)  changes the whole way we played from Saturday but you will never agree being a Hurst apologist.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 33 - 47
Maringer
October 1, 2014, 12:17am
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 8,384
Posts Per Day: 1.73
Reputation: 84.96%
Rep Score: +54 / -9
Approval: +8,944
Gold Stars: 3
I'm not apologising for Hurst or his choices, I'm pointing out that Oates did nothing at all on Saturday so expecting him to keep his place doesn't make sense. The way our midfield played (or didn't play) tonight, I think we would have been hoofing it aimlessly regardless of who was up front. LJL was definitely out of sorts and got absolutely no change from their big No. 5 (who played better than McDonald), so I shudder to think how young Oates would have done had he started. When Oates did come on, we continued to punt it forward which was food and drink to their 3 central defenders.

The idea that we only punted because LJL was on the pitch doesn't really hold true because in our better performances and results with LJL in the team, we have passed the ball well and played some good football. The punting tonight was a reflection of the bad performance, not the only cause of it.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 34 - 47
GorgeousGeorge
October 1, 2014, 12:20am
Beer Drinker
Posts: 112
Posts Per Day: 0.03
Reputation: 81.19%
Rep Score: +5 / -1
Approval: +30
Quoted from Maringer
I'm not apologising for Hurst or his choices, I'm pointing out that Oates did nothing at all on Saturday so expecting him to keep his place doesn't make sense. The way our midfield played (or didn't play) tonight, I think we would have been hoofing it aimlessly regardless of who was up front. LJL was definitely out of sorts and got absolutely no change from their big No. 5 (who played better than McDonald), so I shudder to think how young Oates would have done had he started. When Oates did come on, we continued to punt it forward which was food and drink to their 3 central defenders.

The idea that we only punted because LJL was on the pitch doesn't really hold true because in our better performances and results with LJL in the team, we have passed the ball well and played some good football. The punting tonight was a reflection of the bad performance, not the only cause of it.


Who decides the tactics, the players on the pitch or the manager?  If it's the players then why do we need a manager?  If it's the manager, he keeps getting it wrong.  
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 35 - 47
120797
October 1, 2014, 12:21am
Guest User
We had no joy in the air tonight, a fair point.
But equally we played it on the deck a fair bit too I thought, we just couldn't unlock them.
If Oates was the reason perhaps things would have been different when he came on as sub.
Suffice to say it wasn't.
Logged
E-mail
Reply: 36 - 47
Maringer
October 1, 2014, 12:26am
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 8,384
Posts Per Day: 1.73
Reputation: 84.96%
Rep Score: +54 / -9
Approval: +8,944
Gold Stars: 3
Do you really think the manager told the players to go out and punt it forward towards their 3 giant centre-backs, because I certainly don't. The buck stops with the manager but tonight the fault was mostly with the players.

Pretty much every time we attempted to pass the ball around, we struggled tonight due to inaccuracy, poor movement and overall poor performances. The midfield was hopeless tonight. Was it any surprise that the defenders, especially, ended up punting it forward all too often? I lost count of the times we lost possession through simple passes going straight into touch or the ball just being kicked straight to the opposition.

I just hope that we can put this game behind us quickly as I really didn't expect we could play as poorly as that at home against one of the weaker teams in the division.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 37 - 47
TAGG
October 1, 2014, 12:28am

Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,869
Posts Per Day: 0.88
Reputation: 57.55%
Rep Score: +25 / -22
Approval: +2,019
Gold Stars: 4
Quoted from Maringer
I'm not apologising for Hurst or his choices, I'm pointing out that Oates did nothing at all on Saturday so expecting him to keep his place doesn't make sense. The way our midfield played (or didn't play) tonight, I think we would have been hoofing it aimlessly regardless of who was up front. LJL was definitely out of sorts and got absolutely no change from their big No. 5 (who played better than McDonald), so I shudder to think how young Oates would have done had he started. When Oates did come on, we continued to punt it forward which was food and drink to their 3 central defenders.

The idea that we only punted because LJL was on the pitch doesn't really hold true because in our better performances and results with LJL in the team, we have passed the ball well and played some good football. The punting tonight was a reflection of the bad performance, not the only cause of it.


You are a Hurst apologist.
Hope you happy together at the end of the season when we are still in this excrement league.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 38 - 47
Maringer
October 1, 2014, 12:33am
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 8,384
Posts Per Day: 1.73
Reputation: 84.96%
Rep Score: +54 / -9
Approval: +8,944
Gold Stars: 3
Quoted from TAGG


You are a Hurst apologist.
Hope you happy together at the end of the season when we are still in this excrement league.


Oh, grow up.

I'm stating that I understand many of the choices made by the manager because they are sensible. Are they working? Not all the time, no.

I've stated in the Stick or Twist thread that I'm not a fan of sacking managers in mid-season, let alone less than 2 months into the season. Getting a new manager in at this point is much more likely to be a failure than a success so that's my viewpoint. There aren't exactly a lot of talented and successful managers available willing to come to a non-league club at this time of the year either, are there?

I think we're good enough to reach the play-offs and I think we will. Hope we ultimately play well enough to win promotion if we get there.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 39 - 47
TAGG
October 1, 2014, 12:44am

Whiskey Drinker
Posts: 3,869
Posts Per Day: 0.88
Reputation: 57.55%
Rep Score: +25 / -22
Approval: +2,019
Gold Stars: 4
Quoted from Maringer


Oh, grow up.

I'm stating that I understand many of the choices made by the manager because they are sensible. Are they working? Not all the time, no.

I've stated in the Stick or Twist thread that I'm not a fan of sacking managers in mid-season, let alone less than 2 months into the season. Getting a new manager in at this point is much more likely to be a failure than a success so that's my viewpoint. There aren't exactly a lot of talented and successful managers available willing to come to a non-league club at this time of the year either, are there?

I think we're good enough to reach the play-offs and I think we will. Hope we ultimately play well enough to win promotion if we get there.


"good enough to reach the play-offs" ye maybe so but not with Hurst in charge.
Its not "mid-season" only the first quarter so there is plenty of time to turn us into a promotion team if Fenty pulls his finger out and sacks this idiot.
I dont know what managers are out there.
You keep supporting him and be happy when we are still in this excrement hole getting 2000 attendances at the end of the season.


In his three stints as Grimsby Town manager spanning over 10 years the club was never relegated and he also guided them to three promotions.
Only 14 managers have reached 1,000 matches in charge of a Football League team by 1998 and Buckley is one of them.
GOD
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 40 - 47
arryarryarry
October 1, 2014, 12:46am
Special Brew Drinker
Posts: 8,205
Posts Per Day: 1.70
Reputation: 61.11%
Rep Score: +27 / -20
Approval: +8,822
Gold Stars: 6
Quoted from Maringer
I'm not apologising for Hurst or his choices, I'm pointing out that Oates did nothing at all on Saturday so expecting him to keep his place doesn't make sense. The way our midfield played (or didn't play) tonight, I think we would have been hoofing it aimlessly regardless of who was up front. LJL was definitely out of sorts and got absolutely no change from their big No. 5 (who played better than McDonald), so I shudder to think how young Oates would have done had he started. When Oates did come on, we continued to punt it forward which was food and drink to their 3 central defenders.

The idea that we only punted because LJL was on the pitch doesn't really hold true because in our better performances and results with LJL in the team, we have passed the ball well and played some good football. The punting tonight was a reflection of the bad performance, not the only cause of it.


That's never stopped him continuing to play LJL when he has been crap, just as he was tonight, so it will be interesting to see if he starts with LJL on Saturday.

Logged
Private Message
Reply: 41 - 47
ginnywings
October 1, 2014, 7:33am

Meths Drinker
Posts: 23,318
Posts Per Day: 5.25
Reputation: 73.33%
Rep Score: +83 / -31
Approval: +37,994
Gold Stars: 14
Hurst had to play LJL. He's bigger, stronger, fitter and more experienced than Oates and putting him in was the right move.

My gripe is that after LJL and Hannah, neither of whom look like scoring regularly, the cupboard is bare. We have no forward options in the squad and that is squarely the fault of Hurst.

If you base your attack around LJL, you're asking for trouble unless you have a very prolific striker alongside him. Once again, we have no-one threatening the scoring charts.

Cue someone saying that it doesn't matter who scores. The others aint scoring regularly either.


notonemorepenny
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 42 - 47
TheRonRaffertyFanClub
October 1, 2014, 8:17am
Vodka Drinker
Posts: 7,317
Posts Per Day: 1.61
Reputation: 79.65%
Rep Score: +43 / -11
Location: Norfolk
Approval: +8,157
Gold Stars: 1
There is a mindset in the players. Given time to play and a charitable side that doesn't pressure them in midfield like Chester, they will play the ball around on the floor. Even then the back 4 is always anxious to by-pass midfield and bang the ball into the channels. There are times when the ghost of Mike Lyons is at work because this was his one and only tactic. Chase the ball down and force an error.

Hurst is afraid. You don't have to be Mystic Meg to realise that. He says or implies to players to pass and move if they have time, otherwise play it safe. When he puts LJL in the team that naturally encourages the tactic because he is such a physical asset.

A manager like Buckley would have been incandescent on the touchline, berating players for not doing what he told them and for not continuing to pass the opposition to death. Hurst doesn't know whether he wants them to excrement, shave or shower so his side is schizophrenic. They look clueless and they are clueless because they have no regular, disciplined way to play.

If Hurst wants to play up and under then he should sell Neillson, Brown, Clay, Arnold and co. and go buy Brodie again. Then buy a copy of the Mike Lyons coaching manual. It's cheap, just one page with big print that says "Hit the illegitimate into the corners".


“I think I'm goin' back
To the things I learned so well in my youth
I think I'm returning to
Those days when I was young enough to know the truth."
Logged
Private Message
Reply: 43 - 47
barralad
October 1, 2014, 3:27pm
Mariners Trust
Posts: 13,388
Posts Per Day: 2.79
Reputation: 81.07%
Rep Score: +82 / -19
Approval: +7,201
Gold Stars: 12
Quoted from TAGG


You are a Hurst apologist.
Hope you happy together at the end of the season when we are still in this excrement league.


Yah! boo! sucks!  I can't think of a decent argument so I'll abuse you instead....


I have an inferiority complex-It's not a very good one though.
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 44 - 47
MeanwoodMariner
October 1, 2014, 3:38pm

Champagne Drinker
Posts: 2,313
Posts Per Day: 0.48
Reputation: 79.34%
Rep Score: +19 / -5
Approval: +2,604
Quoted from ginnywings

My gripe is that after LJL and Hannah, neither of whom look like scoring regularly, the cupboard is bare. We have no forward options in the squad and that is squarely the fault of Hurst.

If you base your attack around LJL, you're asking for trouble unless you have a very prolific striker alongside him. Once again, we have no-one threatening the scoring charts.


I've defended Hurst quite a bit but there's very little argument against this.  
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 45 - 47
DocTower
October 1, 2014, 4:12pm
Cocktail Drinker
Posts: 1,709
Posts Per Day: 0.38
Reputation: 71.66%
Rep Score: +10 / -5
Approval: +1,223


A manager like Buckley would have been incandescent on the touchline, berating players for not doing what he told them and for not continuing to pass the opposition to death. Hurst doesn't know whether he wants them to excrement, shave or shower so his side is schizophrenic. They look clueless and they are clueless because they have no regular, disciplined way to play.

If Hurst wants to play up and under then he should sell Neillson, Brown, Clay, Arnold and co. and go buy Brodie again. Then buy a copy of the Mike Lyons coaching manual. It's cheap, just one page with big print that says "Hit the illegitimate into the corners".[/quote]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes AB would have been shouting and jumping up and down like a mad man .
All we have is PH and DM chatting . What imput does our assistant manager have ?
At times we looked like eleven individuals who were picked out of the stands , a bit harsh I know but still frustrated by if all , and its only October 1st .
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 46 - 47
Garth
October 1, 2014, 4:35pm

Season Ticket Holder
Posts: 11,157
Posts Per Day: 2.31
Reputation: 80.75%
Rep Score: +55 / -13
Approval: +4,710
Gold Stars: 3
Quote  I know but still frustrated by if all , and its only October 1st

Me too that match and display hurts like hell and it will take a while to recover
Logged Offline
Private Message
Reply: 47 - 47
5 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 All Recommend Thread
Print

Fishy Forum Fishy Boards Archive › The myth of tinkering?!

Back to top of page

This is not an official forum of Grimsby Town Football Club, the opinions expressed are those of the individual authors. If you see an offensive post then click "Report" on the relevant post. Posts will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators whose decision is final. Posts should abide by the Forum Rules. IP addresses of contributors together with dates and times of access are stored. The opinions and viewpoints expressed by contributors to The Fishy are their own and not necessarily those of The Fishy. The Fishy makes no claims that information dispersed through this forum is accurate or reliable. Also The Fishy cannot be held liable for any statements made by contributors of The Fishy.