Simply won't be good enough

Apart from the flash in the pan weekend, this season is going to be just a repeat of every other season in recent memory, false hope, false praise and fuckall prosperity.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Apart from the flash in the pan weekend, this season is going to be just a repeat of every other season in recent memory, false hope, false praise and fuckall prosperity.

Do you reckon Luton fans were saying this last season after 8 games when they only had 10 points?

Quoted from Les Brechin

Do you reckon Luton fans were saying this last season after 8 games when they only had 10 points?

I don't.give a toss about Luton and last season, I care about Grimsby Town this season. Paul Hust is not and never will be in the same league as John Still, he proved that last year and is underlining it this.

Quoted from Les Brechin

Do you reckon Luton fans were saying this last season after 8 games when they only had 10 points?

Knowing Luton fans, yes, they probably were.   But I agree completely with your point.

that's already at least 9 points behind where we should be right now, that's a hell of a lot of catching up when you consider that if we expect to be going on a Luton run we won't be expecting to drop many more points anyway!!!

Go to bed.

To start with the excuse was injuries, then for one match it was the shops sending off, today I'm not sure what the excuse will be, maybe No Boyce, but for the next X games no doubt the excuse will be no Pearson or Boyce...

Im staying out of this one  

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Apart from the flash in the pan weekend, this season is going to be just a repeat of every other season in recent memory, false hope, false praise and fuckall prosperity.

Two words:

Drama.

Queen.

We've still got a better squad than last season and we're still (generally) playing better than last season. Just need to tighten up a little at the back and take a few more chances.

Disappointed we haven't at least drawn the two games we've lost and won one or two of the draws, but I'm still hopeful of a decent season. Didn't go tonight but, from the comments, sounds as though we didn't really deserve to lose and this with two penalties awarded against us!

Sleep on it and you'll feel better in the morning.

fed up of hearing,, we have a better squad this year.. yes we have some better players , but the same old failing manager.. and before anyone says here come the knockers .. i have never liked  the way hurst manages and should have gone when his other half went.. we will still be here next year and the year after with him in charge imo

Quoted from sutton mariner

Go to bed.

Notice Codger and Denni have made their expected appearance. What do the pair of you do when Town win? Go on holiday?

Quoted from denni266

fed up of hearing,, we have a better squad this year.. yes we have some better players , but the same old failing manager.. and before anyone says here come the knockers .. i have never liked  the way hurst manages and should have gone when his other half went.. we will still be here next year and the year after with him in charge imo

So speaks he who wanted him gone prior to the 13 goals weekend an outburst that you haven't yet had the good grace to apologise for. If you don't understand the meaning of the word have a word with Johnny-he'll put you right.

I think some on here need a reality check as we aren't as good as some make out.

Defensively at times we were all over the place tonight, Clay went AWOL in the second half then Hurst mutters something about him carrying an injury, if that was the case play someone else.

Up front LJL was back to his woeful worst missing chances.

Paul Hurst spends too much time tinkering with the formation so he can play his favourites and as for Hannah, I can see him being drunk off as Cook was last season if he sees the other forwards missing easy chances and then can't get in the side.

He'll leave Hannah on the bench all season then he'll bring in some useless Journey man striker around January , this will upset Hannah and he'll want away .
Same thing happens every season.
The tinkering seems to have started early this season but I suppose with us playing Lincoln early its usually after that when we start to drop off.

cant really afford to lose more than 7-8 games all season......think we will surpass that, and ultimately miss out...

it all looks very tight now, let alone come March-April time

2 bad defeats already..

Quoted from grimps

He'll leave Hannah on the bench all season then he'll bring in some useless Journey man striker around January , this will upset Hannah and he'll want away .
Same thing happens every season.
The tinkering seems to have started early this season but I suppose with us playing Lincoln early its usually after that when we start to drop off.

So you complain about Hannah on the bench yet don't want any "tinkering" with him coming in either ?!!!  
Maybe you will never be satisfied cos there's nothing that will ever make you happy.
Or is that the whole point ?...

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Apart from the flash in the pan weekend, this season is going to be just a repeat of every other season in recent memory, false hope, false praise and fuckall prosperity.

Well if it happens then look on the bright side...
At least you'll have something to moan about.  

Oh yeah, you just care about GTFC.
Let's ALL be like you and say how dire things are when they're not, that'll make us successful for sure...

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Im staying out of this one  

Bet it's killing you though  

Quoted from denni266

fed up of hearing,, we have a better squad this year.. yes we have some better players , but the same old failing manager.. and before anyone says here come the knockers .. i have never liked  the way hurst manages and should have gone when his other half went.. we will still be here next year and the year after with him in charge imo

Fed up of hearing your boring repetitive shite.

Quoted from barralad

Notice Codger and Denni have made their expected appearance. What do the pair of you do when Town win? Go on holiday?

Hook. Line. Sinker.

In football there is often a fine line between success and failure.  Last night was a prime example - we were not at our best but missed some great chances and made some bad defensive errors.  Lincoln tactically got it right and worked hard to knock us off our game.

We ARE a better team  than last season with BETTER players and playing much better football.
Still think we will be ok - remember folks it's a long season!

Quoted from jonnyboy82

Im staying out of this one  

Good idea , going to wait till Saturday to make my mind up , will read all of the heated comments though . Seems like a 50/50 split  to which camp you are in .

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Hook. Line. Sinker.

So they're just trolling.

Quoted from RoboCod

So they're just trolling.

No. Barralad just seems to single my posts out to bite on. In all seriousness, I just don't believe that Paul Hurst has the the nous to get us out of this league. Losing Boyce is a big blow, but that's only part of the story. We need to stop worrying about what teams can do to us and concentrate on what we can do to them. If PH has a good squad (he says he does), then let them prove it.

Better players, better squad but so far the same inconsistencies, to win this league you have to get results against mid table teams like Lincoln.

The problem last night was we didn't assert our game and react quick enough to change a game we could easily have lost by half time.  

A clearer picture after 10 games is the normal call but unless we win the next two games we are going to be sitting outside the top 5 and as the title of the thread states it "Simply won't be good enough".  It's the manner of lost points and inconsistency that will cost us.

Quoted from oldludensian

Fed up of hearing your boring repetitive shite.

then dont read it then. if you cant take the truith

Quoted from MuddyWaters

No. Barralad just seems to single my posts out to bite on. In all seriousness, I just don't believe that Paul Hurst has the the nous to get us out of this league. Losing Boyce is a big blow, but that's only part of the story. We need to stop worrying about what teams can do to us and concentrate on what we can do to them. If PH has a good squad (he says he does), then let them prove it.

Agree with some of that, however the usual bunch only ever jumping into the discussions after a defeat and being notably absent when we're doing well is not helpful. Not aimed at yourself, you've put something constructive into the argument although I'm not sure about the Boyce situation.
I thought Nsiala was fine mostly, but the weakness on the right brought about by a player just not on his game (Bignot) led to the whole back four being pulled around. A player of Magnays quality at LB (I'm never 100% about Thomas tbh) and we'd have a superb defence. First half Pittman was stuck in our half helping out Bignot. 2nd half he pushed forward and was excellent but others had to pitch in to help with the troublesome right side. Disley unfortunately has a top speed of 'plodding' but his input is so valuable, just sporadic.

I too doubt we have a great squad, we do have a very good starting 11 when they're all available but that fragility is still there, a player drafted in, a tiny bit of tinkering and we seem to become shaky, the passing game becomes hard work and we inevitably let in a goal from the first or second strike on our goal.
We're struggling particularly to match the vigour and energy of teams that want our scalp and are explosive out of the blocks, something PH seems unable to match so I would concede that PH does have a few holes in his tactical approaches.

Quoted from barralad

So speaks he who wanted him gone prior to the 13 goals weekend an outburst that you haven't yet had the good grace to apologise for.

I don't understand why someone who has the opinion that Paul Hurst isn't the man for the job should 'apologise' (who do you feel he should apologise to btw?) because of two flash in the pan results??

Quoted from barralad

So speaks he who wanted him gone prior to the 13 goals weekend an outburst that you haven't yet had the good grace to apologise for. If you don't understand the meaning of the word have a word with Johnny-he'll put you right.

i dont have anything to apolagise for.  and as for the  papaer over the cracks weekend.  we did that before, and we are still here

Quoted from ackomariner

Bet it's killing you though  

Lol.

I am a changed man if paul sticks to 442 and plays all the players in there best position..

Seriously though we have the players i know that but paul hurst is his own worst enemy when he just cant leave things alone.

We played so well as a 442 this season it was very good football ,i know we can do it if we worry about what we can do and not change formation just to accomadate or to suit other teams.

Quoted from denni266

i dont have anything to apolagise for.  and as for the  papaer over the cracks weekend.  we did that before, and we are still here

Please Mr D can you tell us another bedtime story, one with a happy ending because you only seem to like horror stories.  Could you tell us it after we win next time because you only tell us one when we lose. You're like a father that doesn't show up to see his kid when we win. If you're not careful you'll end up on Jeremy Kyle

Hurst has to take to take the blame for last night. Opposition weaknesses are their to be exploited, you don't set up to counter their strengths cos chances are they're better at it than you.

I don't know why Hurst get's stick for changing the team. The managers job is to put out the side that he thinks has the best chance of getting the required result against certain opposition. That is surely what a squad is for.

I won't give Hurst stick for altering teams and formations but what i will give him stick for, is not being very good at it. I also think he reacts too slowly when it's obvious that it's not working. I can't ever remember him making a half time substitution for instance, to change our shape or remove an under performing player.

He is a stubborn fooker and i think it will be his undoing.

Quoted from tashee69

Please Mr D can you tell us another bedtime story, one with a happy ending because you only seem to like horror stories.  Could you tell us it after we win next time because you only tell us one when we lose. You're like a father that doesn't show up to see his kid when we win. If you're not careful you'll end up on Jeremy Kyle

if there was another story to tell i would, but i say things as i see them .  we are average at best, and i dont believe its because of the playing staff.

Quoted from tashee69

Please Mr D can you tell us another bedtime story, one with a happy ending because you only seem to like horror stories.  Could you tell us it after we win next time because you only tell us one when we lose. You're like a father that doesn't show up to see his kid when we win. If you're not careful you'll end up on Jeremy Kyle

So may I ask, in the last 10 years or so when has the story had a happy ending?

Quoted from arryarryarry

So may I ask, in the last 10 years or so when has the story had a happy ending?

Good question  arry

A game that could have gone either way but went theirs this time, would have loved Hurst to have changed it after the first thirty when it was obvious that their long ball was killing us, Plan B was needed because we were playing too deep allowing them to launch balls into our area, should have gone 442 IMO and keep them busy at the back with our two strikers.
Still you can`t do much as a manager about poor defending (2 pens) but Doig should have come on sooner when it was obvious that Pearson was finished, better defending long throws at the near post would have helped to, good contest though and I hope they strike a coin for their celebration

The best thing about this season so far is Hurst has seen sense to leave pedestrian Disley out of the starting 11, as soon as he was named in the team last night, I was filled with dread.  People will say, but he scored and does score goals, but this team has proved in the last couple of seasons, that it will never go anywhere with him in the team.  Way too slow, the midfield get's over-run & lacks any drive when he plays.

i see disley is becoming the new scapegoat, been very impressed with clay and brown but last night i thought they were poor and thought dis played well, driving force, slotted in at right back when needed, and his aerial threat was once again apparent, i really dont understand that critisicm of Dis, for me he really does NOT slow the play down and i think he's a valuable member of our team

Disley is far from slow getting around the pitch so I'm baffled as to why he keeps getting singled out. Seems a reasonable choice to include him last night for his aerial ability (let's face it, Brown and to a lesser degree McLaughlin aren't going to win too much in the air) and he's certainly not slow in any respect. I agree he's not the most dynamic of players moving the ball through midfield but then, other than Brown, I don't think any of our midfielders are.

Against Welling at the weekend, Clay disappeared for much of the second half so he's certainly not infallible (though bear in mind he's only relatively young and still has a lot to learn). I don't really see how picking out midfielders as being the cause of our demise last night is reasonable when the goals apparently all came from defensive errors!

Quoted from denni266

fed up of hearing,, we have a better squad this year.. yes we have some better players , but the same old failing manager.. and before anyone says here come the knockers .. i have never liked  the way hurst manages and should have gone when his other half went.. we will still be here next year and the year after with him in charge imo

I'm fed up of hearing you moaning.

Let's have a quick poll. All those that would prefer some positive comments, 'we have a better squad' and 'yes it's a defeat but not the end of the world', hit the green tick.

Those that prefer negative comments, 'the same old failing manager', 'the season's over already', hit the red cross.

Come May we may be Champions, we may be in the play offs, and we may fall short of the play offs, but I would much rather spend the rest of the season being positive and realistic, which are two different things by the way, than taking great pleasure in knocking the manager and the team at every opportunity.

Quoted from Hagrid

i see disley is becoming the new scapegoat, been very impressed with clay and brown but last night i thought they were poor and thought dis played well, driving force, slotted in at right back when needed, and his aerial threat was once again apparent, i really dont understand that critisicm of Dis, for me he really does NOT slow the play down and i think he's a valuable member of our team

Your dammed if you do your dammed if you don't . Don't think I have ever known such a split with the fans regarding players , team , team selection , playing style , tactics and management .

One game away from home all be it Lincoln , lost . Re group , put it right on Saturday and we'll take if from there . I have my own opinions , not happy we lost in those circumstances , but hey ho . The sun is out , tides up and the birds are singing .

The thing in we are still a couple of players away from a promotion winning team,at the beginning of the season P.H. stated he was still looking for another striker,when Aswad was injured he was looking to bring in another player,now Boyce has gone back,and Pearson may be injured for a significant period.The problems have been identified but no action has been taken to remedy the issues.This inaction will cost us dearly,at the end of the season.

Quoted from ivanosandwich

I'm fed up of hearing you moaning.

Let's have a quick poll. All those that would prefer some positive comments, 'we have a better squad' and 'yes it's a defeat but not the end of the world', hit the green tick.

Those that prefer negative comments, 'the same old failing manager', 'the season's over already', hit the red cross.

Come May we may be Champions, we may be in the play offs, and we may fall short of the play offs, but I would much rather spend the rest of the season being positive and realistic, which are two different things by the way, than taking great pleasure in knocking the manager and the team at every opportunity.

If you dont like it dont read it.  1. i never called the players, in fact if you can read properly through rose tinted glasses, i said we have got better  players,  we have the players to win this league , but not with someone in charge that keeps chopping and changing things, and setting up to suit the opponents , instead of setting up for us to play our game.. i will alwase say things as i see it and respect what others think, and i will use my democratic right to say what i think

I did not see the game or listen to it on the radio, so I can only comment after reading various reports. It seems to me that we lost the game through defensive errors (2 pens, although only one converted) and some missed chances. How this is down to team selection is a mystery to me. The back 4 and keeper picked themselves and no one would argue with that. How the inclusion of Disley for Paddy managed to cause those problems is also a puzzle to me and after all he did score 1 of our goals. We have good players who can play good football but as at any level it counts for nothing if you fail in both penalty areas. Even though we lost it sounds like we still had good passages of play, so although disappointed not to get at least a point I remain optimistic for the season.

Quoted from friskneymariner

The thing in we are still a couple of players away from a promotion winning team,at the beginning of the season P.H. stated he was still looking for another striker,when Aswad was injured he was looking to bring in another player,now Boyce has gone back,and Pearson may be injured for a significant period.The problems have been identified but no action has been taken to remedy the issues.This inaction will cost us dearly,at the end of the season.

We don't know that there has been no action though Friskney  

For all we know (and I suspect this is the case) PH will have been checking with all and any contacts to redress the issues we face

But if the right personnel to replace our injuries and recalled loanee are not out there right now, we may have to wait and see what comes about in respect of new faces, who will hopefully come here with specific tasks and not just to boost squad numbers

Quoted from oldun

I did not see the game or listen to it on the radio, so I can only comment after reading various reports. It seems to me that we lost the game through defensive errors (2 pens, although only one converted) and some missed chances. How this is down to team selection is a mystery to me. The back 4 and keeper picked themselves and no one would argue with that. How the inclusion of Disley for Paddy managed to cause those problems is also a puzzle to me and after all he did score 1 of our goals. We have good players who can play good football but as at any level it counts for nothing if you fail in both penalty areas. Even though we lost it sounds like we still had good passages of play, so although disappointed not to get at least a point I remain optimistic for the season.

I did go and can tell you the formation we set out with cost us a first half of football..

it was a diamond formation and disley came in for paddy in a 3 man midfield, it totally looked shite and hurst should have held his hands up after the first 20 mins and changed it but he didn't.

we changed to a 451 after half time and we were better but I firmly believe if we started 442 we would have started better and won that game, we have played our best football as a 442 and shouldn't change for the sake of it at all.

I was there last night and the reason we had a poor first half was because Lincoln had obviously done their homework and gave us no time on the ball at all.They were a big physical team who pressured the person on the ball.

We just cannot cope those tactics,coupled with the incessant high ball down the middle which the centre halves found easy to mop up.
Our breaks came largely through quick passing along the ground,something we did much more of in the 2nd half.

Plying against physical sides  who men mark has long been our Achilles heal.

Quoted from ginnywings

I don't know why Hurst get's stick for changing the team. The managers job is to put out the side that he thinks has the best chance of getting the required result against certain opposition. That is surely what a squad is for.

I won't give Hurst stick for altering teams and formations but what i will give him stick for, is not being very good at it. I also think he reacts too slowly when it's obvious that it's not working. I can't ever remember him making a half time substitution for instance, to change our shape or remove an under performing player.

He is a stubborn fooker and i think it will be his undoing.

Well it's good you say the team shouldn't always be the same EVERY game.

But disagree about not being very good at altering teams and formations.
He pulled a masterstroke v Welling playing Neilson just behind Pittman.

Maybe he reacts a little slowly.
One things for sure, if you react too quick and get it wrong, you look clueless and all over the shop.

H/T subs are rare. maybe it's cos we're not losing too much.
As for yesterday, I understand he did tweak things 2nd half.

Quoted from jonnyboy82

I did go and can tell you the formation we set out with cost us a first half of football..

Strictly speaking at 1-1 it didn't.

Quoted from 120797

Strictly speaking at 1-1 it didn't.

Whilst both teams had chances in the first half, going in 1-1 really had nothing to do with how well we may have played but because some clown missed a penalty, but hey you don't comment on the match.

Quoted from denni266

Good question  arry

My whole point being that when MY team has won well and played well I would come on the website and congratulate them on their performance. Now I would only go on a Man Utd website when they have lost and never when they'd won because I can't stand them.
Do you see what I am getting at here?
You seem to have a habit of only posting after a defeat. Did your computer have some sort of malfunction after the Gateshead and Alfreton games. OK it may be a one off, but you still couldn't say anything good could you.

Quoted from tashee69

My whole point being that when MY team has won well and played well I would come on the website and congratulate them on their performance. Now I would only go on a Man Utd website when they have lost and never when they'd won because I can't stand them.
Do you see what I am getting at here?
You seem to have a habit of only posting after a defeat. Did your computer have some sort of malfunction after the Gateshead and Alfreton games. OK it may be a one off, but you still couldn't say anything good could you.

First  , i never ever go on any other teams site, as i have no interest  at all in other teams. the reason i have a moan on here is because i wont do it at a game,  i do show my delight in the usuall ways tho,, i have been going to the park for 50 yrs , and have stood / sat in all the stands, and can tell you i have heard some disgusting comments shouted out in my time from our own fans  to our players. that is not how it should be at games.. And to put the record strait. i think i have only moaned about  one player that i think was a panic  signing, and one that cant hit a barn door unless he gets 8 chances.  And like i have said on many occations, we do have a good set of players well capable of winning this league, but not with the current manager. he is a good defence coach and that is it imo, and i know i am not alone in thinking that. And yes you are right . i dont  comment enough when we win, but that is because i have seen too many false dawns in the last 11 years, and have learned that they are just flash in the pans . up to now i have not been proved wrong

I know this is raising the LJL debate again which I do not want to dwell on as we have hammered that to death but do want to consider how we may perform with a better quality centre forward.

Lincoln's first goal was a superb header by a 19 year old released by Stevenage who caused our central defenders all night. That was his third headed goal this season and in comparison I dont think LJL won one header against Nat Brown. Although Pitman is smaller he has a better "spring" and consequently wins far more flick ons etc. My major complaint last night was that Lewis was not having a particularly good game but instead of switching Pitman central and bringing on Hannah or Mckreth we persisted with him. Even if I was his biggest fan, which I am not, it is this perceived obsession of PH to stick with him that increases the fans frustration towards Lennie.

As I said last night we are trying to play a more attractive style but I agree with many others that a Benson type centre forward would see us reap the benefits of our new approach.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Whilst both teams had chances in the first half, going in 1-1 really had nothing to do with how well we may have played but because some clown missed a penalty, but hey you don't comment on the match.

I know we were outplayed and lucky 1st half, don't need to be there to work that one out !

MANY others games we haven't had any luck either.
What's wrong with luck balancing itself out for a change (or just 1 half) ?

Have never seen you say we were unlucky.
I know it's disappointing but objectivity over the season isn't based on 1 way traffic of all the bad bits.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

I know this is raising the LJL debate again which I do not want to dwell on as we have hammered that to death but do want to consider how we may perform with a better quality centre forward.

Lincoln's first goal was a superb header by a 19 year old released by Stevenage who caused our central defenders all night. That was his third headed goal this season and in comparison I dont think LJL won one header against Nat Brown. Although Pitman is smaller he has a better "spring" and consequently wins far more flick ons etc. My major complaint last night was that Lewis was not having a particularly good game but instead of switching Pitman central and bringing on Hannah or Mckreth we persisted with him. Even if I was his biggest fan, which I am not, it is this perceived obsession of PH to stick with him that increases the fans frustration towards Lennie.

As I said last night we are trying to play a more attractive style but I agree with many others that a Benson type centre forward would see us reap the benefits of our new approach.

It's a good post and I think raises some really important points in relation to John-Lewis and other aspects. I think it is indisputable that we might do better with a striker of Paul Benson's (or Brett Williamson's) quality, but unfortunately, with a team that's playing more football and creating more chances, it is only going to bring erratic finishing into sharper focus.

Last night's game was uncharacteristically open (for a derby) and the margins were so tight. That game could easily have been a draw, or victory for either side. When the outcome is that delicately balanced, it does make you examine the mistakes and key moments. I think we were all really disppointed with the first half performance, and the defending for the first goal and the winning goal - especially when we know their threat lies chiefly in set pieces and crosses. We should have done more to stop that cross coming in for the first and their scorer gets in between two defenders, neither of whom are tight enough, with Toto's mistimed jump making it look even more sloppy. The winning goal is even more sickening, with too much ball watching going on for my liking. He scores with a tap in from about 5 yeards from a corner! These moments are equally as pivotal as the one-on-one LJL miss, and the other decent chance he fluffed.

That said, with a quality striker, in close games, you might get one, maybe two chances, and he scores. You win or save the game. Zero points turned into one, and draws turned into victories. I really hate to repeat this sentiment because I do think he has a value to the squad and he is not solely to blame for losing last night's game, but I just cannot see how we can expect to be promoted when our forward line is led by such a haphazard finisher. We must do better, or we'll have to witness the same lesson over, and over and over again. It's easier to accept wasted opportunities when you still achieve a good result, but when it's that tight, quality (or lack of) stands out a mile and makes all the difference.

Final comment - we shouldn't be too downhearted after that result. We could so easily have drawn or won that game. We need to regroup, cross our fingers that the injuries are minor and grind out a result at BP on Saturday in what looks a very tough game. Home form, for me, is what really gives you a platform, and we must make sure we win or avoid losing. We can't afford to dwell or feel sorry for ourselves.

Quoted from 120797

I know we were outplayed and lucky 1st half, don't need to be there to work that one out !

MANY others games we haven't had any luck either.
What's wrong with luck balancing itself out for a change (or just 1 half) ?

Have never seen you say we were unlucky.

I know it's disappointing but objectivity over the season isn't based on 1 way traffic of all the bad bits.

Missing easy chances and crap defending has got nothing to do with luck, the only luck we had was the penalty miss.

It will be if we fail to get promoted again.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

I know this is raising the LJL debate again which I do not want to dwell on as we have hammered that to death but do want to consider how we may perform with a better quality centre forward.

Lincoln's first goal was a superb header by a 19 year old released by Stevenage who caused our central defenders all night. That was his third headed goal this season and in comparison I dont think LJL won one header against Nat Brown. Although Pitman is smaller he has a better "spring" and consequently wins far more flick ons etc. My major complaint last night was that Lewis was not having a particularly good game but instead of switching Pitman central and bringing on Hannah or Mckreth we persisted with him. Even if I was his biggest fan, which I am not, it is this perceived obsession of PH to stick with him that increases the fans frustration towards Lennie.

As I said last night we are trying to play a more attractive style but I agree with many others that a Benson type centre forward would see us reap the benefits of our new approach.

I'm not his biggest fan and apart from missing good chances, for me another major failing is his heading ability in and around the 6 yard box but to be fair to the lad he did jump and get a very good header in late on in the game that the keeper palmed away.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Missing easy chances and crap defending has got nothing to do with luck, the only luck we had was the penalty miss.

I meant over the whole season so far...

I am just so perplexed with 80's glory harping on about luck,you make your own luck ,and whilst unexpected unforeseen random events may have a little impact on the outcome of an event,they are very insignificant,in the overall scheme of things.

You can guarantee the most skilful ,well prepared and  organised teams have the greater proportion of 'luck' no coincidence that.    

Quoted from 120797

I meant over the whole season so far...

I'm sorry but you have lost me there, why do I have to mention luck.

So far this season :-

Bristol Rovers  -  not a great performance but 2 points lost due to crap finishing by LJL

Nuneaton & Dover  -  2 poor performances

Gateshead & Alfreton  -  2 very good games where the whole team played well.

Aldershot  -  could have won this game by half-time but for poor finishing, then LJL foolishly got himself sent off and we lost the game.

Welling  -  not a great performance but a win and helped by poor finishing from Welling.

Lincoln  -  played OK at times but again poor finishing possibly cost us the game.

Luck doesn't get you promoted.

Quoted from arryarryarry

I'm sorry but you have lost me there, why do I have to mention luck.

So far this season :-

Bristol Rovers  -  not a great performance but 2 points lost due to crap finishing by LJL

Nuneaton & Dover  -  2 poor performances

Gateshead & Alfreton  -  2 very good games where the whole team played well.

Aldershot  -  could have won this game by half-time but for poor finishing, then LJL foolishly got himself sent off and we lost the game.

Welling  -  not a great performance but a win and helped by poor finishing from Welling.

Lincoln  -  played OK at times but again poor finishing possibly cost us the game.

Luck doesn't get you promoted.

All LJL's fault by the looks of things then.

Before we all start to think the season is over already,

I am not bothered who is top of the league in September,

OR even December, it's who is top at the end of the season that counts,

We have the players who can perform they have shown that in the 2 big wins,

What we need is for them to be more consistant and maybe another striker in and we will be there,

Coming on here moaning about the manager and certain players after a defeat does not help at all,

We can do this , stick behind the team and the manager and I am sure our support will be rewarded.

Quoted from brad_gtfc

All LJL's fault by the looks of things then.

No certainly not, but many of us feel its a major factor whilst just as many think we cannot manage without him. Its a debate that will run and run whilst he remains at the club. What we have to do is back him during matches and restrict any negative views we may on him to postings on here.

I agree wholeheartedly but I wouldn't even call them 'negative views'. They are observations of real events. Critical, but balanced comment if you like.

I think that LJL is a very important member of our squad and a player of considerable value in some games, but for the manager to make him the 'number one',  'auto-pick' striker and watch chance after chance squandered across dozens of games is both foolish and sickening. We would win so many more marginal points with a quality striker/more reliable finisher, and that's a stark and blindingly obvious fact.

Quoted from chaos33

I agree wholeheartedly but I wouldn't even call them 'negative views'. They are observations of real events. Critical, but balanced comment if you like.

I think that LJL is a very important member of our squad and a player of considerable value in some games, but for the manager to make him the 'number one',  'auto-pick' striker and watch chance after chance squandered across dozens of games is both foolish and sickening. We would win so many more marginal points with a quality striker/more reliable finisher, and that's a stark and blindingly obvious fact.

My thoughts exactly.

Quoted from ginnywings

I don't know why Hurst get's stick for changing the team. The managers job is to put out the side that he thinks has the best chance of getting the required result against certain opposition. That is surely what a squad is for.

I won't give Hurst stick for altering teams and formations but what i will give him stick for, is not being very good at it. I also think he reacts too slowly when it's obvious that it's not working. I can't ever remember him making a half time substitution for instance, to change our shape or remove an under performing player.

He is a stubborn fooker and i think it will be his undoing.

Spot on.

We've got a fantastic goal difference for a side that's won one more game than it has lost. Failure to convert chances in tight games will ultimately cost any team and that's why you need your fox-in-the-box. I'm not repeating what several including myself have said about Hurst or LJL but if we have such a great squad, we simply have to stop worrying about what other teams threats are and start to concentrate on what we can do to them.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We've got a fantastic goal difference for a side that's won one more game than it has lost. Failure to convert chances in tight games will ultimately cost any team and that's why you need your fox-in-the-box. I'm not repeating what several including myself have said about Hurst or LJL but if we have such a great squad, we simply have to stop worrying about what other teams threats are and start to concentrate on what we can do to them.

I agree with that.

Quoted from 120797

I know we were outplayed and lucky 1st half, don't need to be there to work that one out !

MANY others games we haven't had any luck either.
What's wrong with luck balancing itself out for a change (or just 1 half) ?

Have never seen you say we were unlucky.
I know it's disappointing but objectivity over the season isn't based on 1 way traffic of all the bad bits.

I once had a tutor who used to have something to say about being lucky with exams, something like if you're prepared when the opportunity comes along, then you are making your own luck

I just googled his paraphrased words and found

Seneca, a first-century Roman philosopher, allegedly said, "Luck is where the crossroads of opportunity and preparation meet"

So it seems that for a lot longer than any of us have been watching Town, some things never change...we need to get out there tomorrow and make sure we influence things from the off and then hopefully there won't be any questions about good or bad luck

Quoted from chaos33

I agree wholeheartedly but I wouldn't even call them 'negative views'. They are observations of real events. Critical, but balanced comment if you like.

I think that LJL is a very important member of our squad and a player of considerable value in some games, but for the manager to make him the 'number one',  'auto-pick' striker and watch chance after chance squandered across dozens of games is both foolish and sickening. We would win so many more marginal points with a quality striker/more reliable finisher, and that's a stark and blindingly obvious fact.

I know that lots wouldn't have had a chance to hear an interview pre-match on Tuesday as they were already at the game but
I heard Steve Thompson (ex Lincoln manager - https://twitter.com/TommoTweets) discussing LJL. Very interesting it was too

What he had to say summed things up pretty much...seems from him joining the Imps as a young lad right up to his performances with us now, his strengths have been his enery, his persistence and his strength (if you get me) and his main weakness from the off was always his finishing

He's a bit like Marmite I guess...I do like him and if I was playing in the same team I'd value what he does more than what he fails at, but is he the forward to lead the line and get us promoted?

Time will tell - PH clearly thinks so but if we get in to the middle of the season and we're still discussing his inability to take chances that will see us take three points and not draw or lose as we did the other night, he might just be the fall guy in the transfer window in the New Year

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We've got a fantastic goal difference for a side that's won one more game than it has lost. Failure to convert chances in tight games will ultimately cost any team and that's why you need your fox-in-the-box. I'm not repeating what several including myself have said about Hurst or LJL but if we have such a great squad, we simply have to stop worrying about what other teams threats are and start to concentrate on what we can do to them.

It may surprise you but I agree entirely with all of this particularly the highlighted last bit. I only hope that if we do go for it hell for leather and slip up that some on here (not your good self actually) will recognise what we were trying to do and accept the risks in the strategy.

Quoted from chaos33

I agree wholeheartedly but I wouldn't even call them 'negative views'. They are observations of real events. Critical, but balanced comment if you like.

I think that LJL is a very important member of our squad and a player of considerable value in some games, but for the manager to make him the 'number one',  'auto-pick' striker and watch chance after chance squandered across dozens of games is both foolish and sickening. We would win so many more marginal points with a quality striker/more reliable finisher, and that's a stark and blindingly obvious fact.

Do we have a quality striker of the type you are talking about?

It's a bit of a rhetorical question actually because I think we may have in J-P. However, fundamental to his success IMHO is the relationship he builds with LJL-which is already starting to show promise...can you have one without the other? I don't know but he isn't going to get the same support/service from Ross Hannah. Of course we have yet to see what Arnold can do....

Quoted from chaos33

I agree wholeheartedly but I wouldn't even call them 'negative views'. They are observations of real events. Critical, but balanced comment if you like.

I think that LJL is a very important member of our squad and a player of considerable value in some games, but for the manager to make him the 'number one',  'auto-pick' striker and watch chance after chance squandered across dozens of games is both foolish and sickening. We would win so many more marginal points with a quality striker/more reliable finisher, and that's a stark and blindingly obvious fact.

Have you not heard that a critical view on Town is just you being 'negative' 'not supporting the boys' 'wanting us to lose' and as one person quite extraordinarily said, 'bullying'.

I agree with that whole last paragraph, I agree with most of this thread in fact. I think Hurst has brought himself a lot of time with those two wins but with those wins come pressure because he's shown we can do it, if we go backwards now due to him stupidly insisting on change yet again then I give it two weeks until we are back to the atmosphere of a few weeks ago.

Quoted from pontoonlew

Have you not heard that a critical view on Town is just you being 'negative' 'not supporting the boys' 'wanting us to lose' and as one person quite extraordinarily said, 'bullying'.

I agree with that whole last paragraph, I agree with most of this thread in fact. I think Hurst has brought himself a lot of time with those two wins but with those wins come pressure because he's shown we can do it, if we go backwards now due to him stupidly insisting on change yet again then I give it two weeks until we are back to the atmosphere of a few weeks ago.

No need to keep going on about it really...opinions on both side of the divide are equally valid.

I have just two questions for you. Do you believe that regardless of who the opposition are Hurst should stick with the same team regardless of whether players not in that first XI may have different skill sets that would benefit the team more against certain opposition?
If not do you think that there should be changes tomorrow after the Lincoln defeat given that certain players were substantially off their game on Tuesday night?
If you do that is fine but it would appear to be out of step with those who don't think LJL should be a fixture in the side.

Quoted from barralad

No need to keep going on about it really...opinions on both side of the divide are equally valid.

I have just two questions for you. Do you believe that regardless of who the opposition are Hurst should stick with the same team regardless of whether players not in that first XI may have different skill sets that would benefit the team more against certain opposition?
If not do you think that there should be changes tomorrow after the Lincoln defeat given that certain players were substantially off their game on Tuesday night?
If you do that is fine but it would appear to be out of step with those who don't think LJL should be a fixture in the side.

For a start, FWIW I'd still start LJL to see how he gets on, but I think he's got to be fighting for his place. He has to be because lately he's undoubtedly cost us points, I don't even think the most loyal LJL fan will deny that. It wound me up no end when LJL was suspended Hurst said 'we had to try and play it on the floor because Lenny wasn't there' why on earth are we basing our game on lumping the ball up anyway? The fact is Lenny isn't even that good in the air but I think Pittman likes playing with him, Hannah & Pittman is an unknown quantity. Having mentioned Hannah, he'll suffer this season because Hurst has blasted his confidence very early on by shunning him for a player who Hannah will be watching getting in the first 11 without seemingly having to play well. The fact he never started against Welling was baffling, same happened to Cook (7 in 7 this season) anyway I digress from the question...

I do believe that Hurst should stick with the same 11 yeah, unless obviously those players are out of form. Why on earth as a team looking to win the league you'd ever set up to stop the opposition is simply beyond me. As I said about Lincoln, why would you try and play Lincoln at a tactic they are better at than us? So what if they have big players, if anything you try even harder to pass round them because if you go out to battle them, there's only going to be one winner. I'm adamant that if we went into that game and played OUR way, we would've won because we're better at our way than they are.

To the second question i'd say get back to the side that tore 2 sides to absolute pieces, that's a tried and tested method. Rotate those players out when they have a bad run of games, the best teams are the consistent ones. If you get 11 players playing together on a run, they'll undoubtedly achieve good things.

I don't think it's any coincidence that each year when Hurst has been here, we've had poor second halves of seasons which have coincided with this stupid 'rotation policy' because 'players are tired'. Yet in the meantime we get given the run around by part time sides who stick with the same side.

Quoted from barralad

It may surprise you but I agree entirely with all of this particularly the highlighted last bit. I only hope that if we do go for it hell for leather and slip up that some on here (not your good self actually) will recognise what we were trying to do and accept the risks in the strategy.

I think I need a drink.....

The thing about LJL is that he really is the only 'targetman' we have. Pittman is strong and has a good leap, but is relatively diminutive in comparison to big defenders in this division so isn't overly well suited to the holding role. At a push, we can play Pittman and Hannah together, but we'll invariably struggle to hold the ball up front when they play together. Probably better to have a front 3 with runners if LJL isn't available.

Aerially, LJL is the best we have amongst the strikers. Not surprising, really, because he's also the tallest. I don't know about the away matches this season, but he's won the majority of his headers at BP so I'm rather baffled as to why he is attracting criticism about this aspect of his game.

As for Hannah, he may not have had many chances so far this season, but the simple fact is that we've scored 17 goals in the 5 games in which LJL and JPP have played together! Unfortunately for Hannah, we're not likely to change the forward line when those two are playing well together, especially as they have linked up well with Neilson almost as a front 3 for much of the time. He'll get his opportunities in the team at some point so he just needs to ensure he scores some goals when he gets the chances.

I dont think that anyone on here,  or that supports town,  can or does call LJL for his commitmet, he is a 100% player and alwase gives his best... untill he can see the net,, from close range. that is where he will and has cost us goals and points,, not to say that others have not missed a few sitters, but no where near as often as he does , and goals win games end of

Quoted from pontoonlew

Having mentioned Hannah, he'll suffer this season because Hurst has blasted his confidence very early on by shunning him for a player who Hannah will be watching getting in the first 11 without seemingly having to play well. The fact he never started against Welling was baffling, same happened to Cook (7 in 7 this season) anyway I digress from the question...
.

I couldn't make the Welling game and admit to some surprise that Hannah didn't start. However as Maringer points out Pittman and LJL have played together for five games and those games have delivered 17 goals. This suggests that something must be going right so under your view those two should be in the team. That this means currently there is no place for Hannah is unfortunate for him but means that we do have some strength in depth forward wise. I suspect as a pro. footballer Hannah confidence will not have taken as severe a knocking as you seem to think and he should/will be determined to give it his all when his chance comes.....

I'm amazed we only have 12 points following those outstanding performances in the Gateshead and Alfreton games (absolutely outstanding).

We obviously have the players required for success in the Conference League. Just down to keeping injury free, team selection based on successful past performances and a management team that can motivate that team (which did happen against Gateshead and Alfreton).
We have to blast Torquay on Saturday as a further statement of intent (for promotion)

UTM

13 of those goals came in 2 games, which are beginning to look flukey - Alf were excrement on the day, and even the much derided Woods' team managed 13 goals in 2 games. In the bigger picture you're then left with 2 goals in 3 games and 4 other goals in the rest. Hmmmm. LJL had 2 effective games - or at least one - hardly a great return since Jan 2013.

If it's a big target man he wanted Hurst may have picked the wrong one. If it's a question of making the most of your assets (which incidentally Hurst chose) then play your best team. Which would include a striker with a better record. And play tactics accordingly.

Bar McKeown, one player gets in the team regardless of his performances, and it's getting tedious the number of missed opportunities. Hurst is stubborn booger. Hannah will only get his chance if Shop breaks his leg. Favouritism pure and simple. Other than that it'll be a few minutes here and there for Hannah. Oh he'll have a bad spell in a game, and get offside too often, but the patience we're all asked to show LJL won't be asked for in Hannah's case.

Pittman, Neilson and LJL combined brilliantly at Gateshead. There's no reason why they cant continue in that vein, if they are professional footballers. There was a hiccup at Aldershot (due to the LJL dismissal) but these 3 are now available (I think). Chances will be missed but if enough are created, then these 3 will convert some.

Town need to play a pressing game and these attackers will flourish. This means that an energetic midfield (which we do have) is required. It looks to me that Brown, Clay and McLaughlin are important in this respect - followed by management tactics in destroying the opposition.

UTM

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Bar McKeown, one player gets in the team regardless of his performances, and it's getting tedious the number of missed opportunities. Hurst is stubborn booger. Hannah will only get his chance if Shop breaks his leg. Favouritism pure and simple. Other than that it'll be a few minutes here and there for Hannah. Oh he'll have a bad spell in a game, and get offside too often, but the patience we're all asked to show LJL won't be asked for in Hannah's case.

3 goals and 3 assists for LJL this season. Also his part in the OG against Alfreton where he would have scored from his header's rebound if it hadn't gone in off the keeper. That's a match for Neilson's 4 goals and 2 assists.

At this point of the season, that's not too bad a record for a striker.

In absolutely no way are LJL and Hannah comparable as players. I think Hannah is extremely hard-working (actually to the point that it's detrimental to his goalscoring), but to try and compare him to LJL as a player really baffles me. Apples and oranges really.

Hannah is never going to create goals out of nothing because he's not that sort of player and doesn't have the physique to compete with the big, meaty defenders in this division. However, he's likely to be a decent finisher when the chances are laid on for him.

LJL is the opposite. He has the physique and some ability, but he's not a 'natural' goalscorer.

Luckily, football is a team game, so the weaknesses of individual players shouldn't be too much of an issue, providing the team gels and players perform near to their capabilities. As I've said in the past, I reckon that LJL can get close to 20 goals if he has a good season (3 goals with around a seventh of the season gone so far, so he's on track), but hopefully, his presence in the team should help Pittman, Hannah & Co to score plenty of goals.

Quoted from Maringer

3 goals and 3 assists for LJL this season. Also his part in the OG against Alfreton where he would have scored from his header's rebound if it hadn't gone in off the keeper. That's a match for Neilson's 4 goals and 2 assists.

At this point of the season, that's not too bad a record for a striker.

In absolutely no way are LJL and Hannah comparable as players. I think Hannah is extremely hard-working (actually to the point that it's detrimental to his goalscoring), but to try and compare him to LJL as a player really baffles me. Apples and oranges really.

Hannah is never going to create goals out of nothing because he's not that sort of player and doesn't have the physique to compete with the big, meaty defenders in this division. However, he's likely to be a decent finisher when the chances are laid on for him.

LJL is the opposite. He has the physique and some ability, but he's not a 'natural' goalscorer.

Luckily, football is a team game, so the weaknesses of individual players shouldn't be too much of an issue, providing the team gels and players perform near to their capabilities. As I've said in the past, I reckon that LJL can get close to 20 goals if he has a good season (3 goals with around a seventh of the season gone so far, so he's on track), but hopefully, his presence in the team should help Pittman, Hannah & Co to score plenty of goals.

Couple of ponts in reply.

1) After today we will be a fifth of the way through the season, not a seventh and we are already 9 points adrift of the top spot.

2) LJL may well have 3 goals and three assists but most of that haul came against a very poor Alfreton. He has not scored a match winning or match saving goal to secure any points. Most of the chances he has missed have cost us points in tighter games than the Alfy or Heed games.

Quoted from ginnywings

Couple of ponts in reply.

1) After today we will be a fifth of the way through the season, not a seventh and we are already 9 points adrift of the top spot.

2) LJL may well have 3 goals and three assists but most of that haul came against a very poor Alfreton. He has not scored a match winning or match saving goal to secure any points. Most of the chances he has missed have cost us points in tighter games than the Alfy or Heed games.

Yeah, I was half-cut when I made that post last night, hence the error in arithmetic! Still reckon that there is the potential for LJL to get in the region of 20 goals this season, however.

I was getting the stats from the OS and have to admit that I'm surprised there aren't more 'assists' than that shown. Didn't LJL pass the ball to Pittman for his goal the other night? Surely an 'assist' of sorts, so that's 4 I can remember straight away!

Regardless, the first choice strike partnership of LJL/JPP is performing well and have scored plenty of goals between them. The points have been lost in our two defeats mainly due to defensive errors so this is the issue we need to resolve (though we obviously were down to ten men against Aldershot which perhaps led to the errors there).

Of course the other major difference between hannah and John-Lewis is that JL keeps getting picked and Hannah has hardly any match time.

If you re-read my post I wasn't comparing them as types of players.

I wouldn't call 7 goals between two strikers over 8 games "plenty". A good return from Pitman though given he missed a few games.

Poor start, no closing down, lethargic and pedestrian, is it the fans fault yet.