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Team For Welling

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mariner tommy
September 3, 2014, 8:24pm Report to Moderator
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You ought to change the title of this thread from "Team for Welling"

To "the 80sglory thread"

UTM


                                   "Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its students."  ..Hector Berlioz, 1856.
                                   “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"  ...Voltaire, 1694-1778

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120797
September 3, 2014, 11:09pm Report to Moderator
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Or maybe I'm not the only one and you're not paying quite enough attention ?
But no worries, it's your own choice what to think.

Safe to assume making unforced changes is a minority viewpoint.
Doesn't take Einstein to work out it's what 98% of "online GTFC supporters" want.
Got news for you though - minority fan viewpoints are sometimes, maybe often right !
If weight of "fan opinion" over team selection was that valuable or simple, don't you think we'd have already cracked promotion by now ?...

It's a shame (and quite ironic) many who won't look further than the "next game" are happy enough to look back at past resultS (i.e. MANY games) and be willing to criticize at will if it goes wrong.
Perhaps even months or seasons if the team THEY wanted themselves doesn't deliver on the day !

No sympathy, no quarter given + everything demanded of others presumably only here to serve and deliver for YOU.

But live and let live, it's all fine by me.
Just don't feel you have any right to complain or feel disgruntled if the "same team" you want doesn't win again, that's all.
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Rodley Mariner
September 4, 2014, 7:57am Report to Moderator
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If the same team plays and wins then do you have to be quiet?
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salfordmariner
September 4, 2014, 8:03am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 120797
Or maybe I'm not the only one and you're not paying quite enough attention ?
But no worries, it's your own choice what to think.

Safe to assume making unforced changes is a minority viewpoint.
Doesn't take Einstein to work out it's what 98% of "online GTFC supporters" want.
Got news for you though - minority fan viewpoints are sometimes, maybe often right !
If weight of "fan opinion" over team selection was that valuable or simple, don't you think we'd have already cracked promotion by now ?...

It's a shame (and quite ironic) many who won't look further than the "next game" are happy enough to look back at past resultS (i.e. MANY games) and be willing to criticize at will if it goes wrong.
Perhaps even months or seasons if the team THEY wanted themselves doesn't deliver on the day !

No sympathy, no quarter given + everything demanded of others presumably only here to serve and deliver for YOU.

But live and let live, it's all fine by me.
Just don't feel you have any right to complain or feel disgruntled if the "same team" you want doesn't win again, that's all.


Ok 80's let me throw my two pence in. I don't know much, however I know a little about players preparedness, readiness and/or fatigue.

You are right when you say it's a squad game and fatigue (neurological and physiological   ) leads to reduced performance and increased injury risk. This is a fact. It is also true that this can happen so soon into the season (Luke shaws injury And just watch Fulham get on this season after their double sessions).

However I find it quite amusing how you try and justify certain players having a rest over others- and are so convinced by your own arguments.

These decisions are not made on a gut feeling of a manager anymore and certainly not on the whim of someone with zero access to crucial players data!

With limited info on the players state all you can say is what players you want to see play, based on current form. Everything else is just a guess and to try and form a credible argument from this base is impossible.

It's all about monitoring- there are ways of scientifically monitoring players by using things like omegawave pro (physiological) and functional movement screens (neurological)- and if clubs can't afford omegawave you can buy reliable apps for 6 quid that players can do on a daily basis at home.

This daily data tells you what state your players are in. You therefore change the intensities of your training sessions to match this data- so you always have a well prepared squad. There shouldn't be a need for mass wholesale changes every week  as you change training intensity that brings the players down into a safe zone. A well prepared zone. Ready for high performance.

however, If by the time of a game the players physiological data is down then they would be a risk to injury and reduced performance And need to be rested. If the players neurological system is down, which the movement screening picks up (like carrying a knock) then they have physio sessions to try and bump up this score- if they can't they don't play.

Also, in terms of return to play post injury you suggest Arnold to start. The Belgium physio Raymond verheijen is very vocal on this if you are interested. Basically, going from 45 mins in a friendly into a starting berth is a huge injury risk- even if the physiological and neurological system is up to speed- unless of course you plan on bringing on neilson after 30 mins!



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chaos33
September 4, 2014, 9:37am Report to Moderator
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Excellent informative post Salford.


"You should do what you love while you can"
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Abdul19
September 4, 2014, 11:44am Report to Moderator

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Bah, what did science ever prove?


“I hit the ball as though it owed me money.”
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The Old Codger
September 4, 2014, 12:33pm Report to Moderator
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Keep changes to a minimum, make sure you get three points on Saturday than worry about Tuesday on Monday morning. If we get 3 ahead after an hour then rest whoever but you get the same number of points for a win in this league whether you are playing Welling or Lincoln.
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Meza
September 4, 2014, 12:48pm Report to Moderator

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Not only that Salford, but player happiness, getting dropped (not rested as most players will see it at that I know I would) may create loss of form, we know if someone is not on form they use to get dropped into the reserves to try and reclaim that form and someone else steps up to the plate and stake a claim, however when the player initially rested (dropped) they lose momentum.


[URL=https://imgur.com/VCxdH2Y][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VCxdH2Ys.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/uMRVvRe][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/uMRVvRes.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/5p7nllT][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/5p7nllTs.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/46BEw5M][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/46BEw5Ms.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=https://imgur.com/06NXnQF][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/06NXnQFs.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

My Grimsby Legends
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fiveallive
September 4, 2014, 3:47pm Report to Moderator
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McKeown

Walker
Nsiala
Pearson (c)
Magnay

Mackreth
Brown
Paddy
Nielson

Pittman
Hannah

Winfarrah
Disley
Clay
Arnold
Bemrose.

Changed Walker for Bignot because still got a injury.
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120797
September 4, 2014, 10:26pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from salfordmariner
These decisions are not made on a gut feeling of a manager anymore and certainly not on the whim of someone with zero access to crucial players data!

Don't see how this is really relevant to my opinion at all !

You've brought up match fitness.
Like I said, excellent idea by the club to put on the midweek game.
You can't say even more match time wouldn't help fitness levels even more though.
So apart from me apparently not knowing what I'm talking about, what's your point ?

Since you're focusing purely on fitness, can only assume you haven't read all the ACTUAL reasons I gave and have just decided to go off on your own tangent.
I'm not going to repeat them all again a 3rd time...

And not sure how you can say I'm so convinced by my own arguments when I've already conceded my team selection is "risky" and have already seen both sides to the argument.
In light of your own words below, can only assume you've come up with a lot of irrelevant scientific waffle to try to discredit my opinion.

In any case, how do YOU know what Hurst is thinking ?
You've got first hand insight into the club ?
Please share your working role at GTFC...

Quoted from salfordmariner
With limited info on the players state all you can say is what players you want to see play, based on current form

Well that's your own opinion and certainly a valid enough one in theory, it may often be right !

That said, I've looked at your own "Team for Gateshead" and see you went for Connell.
Think I did too, the difference is, I'm not claiming it's all down to "current form" at all !  

Especially as Pittman came on as sub at Dover, generally impressed and maybe more importantly, looked the business pre-season. (note how some actually GO to these games and are paying attention ?)

VERY interesting indeed you said...
Quoted from salfordmariner
This for me but I would have Connell instead of Pittman. Think we need to manage him carefully this year to help reduce injuries.

http://www.thefishy.co.uk/cgi-bin/forum/Blah.pl?m-1408389851/s-0/#num4

Doesn't sounds like "all you can say is what players you want to see play, based on current form" at all !!!
Please forgive me if I think you're flip flopping talking a load of codswallop.

All your physiological info is all very interesting.
Like you say "fatigue (neurological and physiological   ) leads to reduced performance and increased injury risk."

Point is some/most fans want us to win EVERY game AND just keep picking the same players every week.
Doesn't take rocket science to work out that target is impossible or the situation is perhaps gonna unravel at some point.

Some often ask "why did our form dip post Xmas ?"
Well fatigue is what happens when you ask players to play so many games in such a short space of time, often it's even less.
You don't need a degree in physiology to work that one out !
I'd also add people have eyes and can see when players are looking jaded too.

Again, the situation arguably isn't helped by those complaining whenever Hurst makes the odd change perhaps thinking long term.
I would really LOVE to know what type of manager those who want Hurst out would like to replace him with.
Presumably one who can play the same 11 players for 46 games and win the lot - dream on !

Quoted from salfordmariner
Everything else is just a guess and to try and form a credible argument from this base is impossible.

Course it's a guess ! (and they're often right)
What do you expect people to do, never guess or have an opinion ?

I notice it didn't stop YOU putting up YOUR own team or saying you would rest Pittman ?!!!
Out of interest what's your "creditable argument" regarding team selection Sat ?
Or are you flip flopping again now just deciding to sit on the fence ?

Put it this way, I'm not entirely suprised Nsiala (a big strapping centre back) didn't have the greatest game playing so many games in such a short space of time in a RB role which was asking him to get up and down the channels.
Not to mention his suitability for that role (which I & others mentioned beforehand...)

Sometimes you don't always need state of the art fitness technology, just a set of eyes and a bit of realism and common sense.
Like I've already said too, I don't blame Hurst because guess he was under massive pressure from unsatisifed keyboard warriors to pick the team THEY wanted him to.

So of course I don't know the exact state of the players, no more than anyone else including yourself.
Doesn't mean you can't spot the dangers ahead though !

But of course it's not all about fitness by any means.
Players who may fit particular systems better, opposition etc etc are all relevant points.

But yet again, it doesn't take rocket science to work out gaining match fitness and PRACTICE (notice the difference there ?) is also helpful to those not currently involved.
As surely just proven by Hurst's recent comments just made on MP...

So in conclusion, I won't dispute all your info about player monitoring etc.
But in light of your above contradiction not sure I trust it's worth or value even it was relevant to the points I made !

Regarding "guesses", facts are some outcomes speak for themselves.
If 98% choose a team and others who don't (who give their reasons beforehand why and are partly vindicated) it's fair to say the 2% knew what they were talking about at the time if some of those "issues" crop up during the game.

This is what people who know about football are judged on (by fair and objective people), just the same the same way managers are.

For example if JF was as kneejerk as most on here and didn't take into account our improvements in recent seasons, he'd have got rid of Hurst and arguably made a big mistake.

We're all guessing but some guesses better than others.
Weight of opinion is therefore not all it's cracked up to be unless bums on seats become a factor.
And thank goodness some often guess correctly to actually HELP the club instead of questioning or complaining all the time...
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