Mariner's Trust

Incoming.......hard hats everyone!

    For some time now GTFC and Mariners Trust have been in
discussions about the merits of Mariners Trust having a
representative on the board of GTFC and one of the key tasks
has been for the Trust to prove that we are a credible
rganisation who are here for the long term. Over recent
months we have built a good working relationship with the
club and in fact have already achieved a great deal of
involvement with full exposure to the clubs finances ,
regular meetings with senior managers and a slot at all of
the clubs board meetings. We believe we have achieved the
credibility and the next logical step is for a Trust
representative to sit on the GTFC board We are delighted to
announce that we have now reached agreement with the CEO Ian
Fleming, and John Fenty on the criteria for a representative
of the Trust to sit on the GTFC board. It still however
needs final confirmation from the full GTFC board  We have
mutually agreed that The Trust will seek to provide a
minimum 30k pa revenue and also will need to increase
membership to a minimum of 750 (currently 500).Once achieved
a place on the board for a Trust representative will be
triggered. This would be reviewed if these levels were not
maintained. There would also be some qualification criteria
that the representative meets the fit and proper test to
become a director. The Trust are very happy to take on this
challenge and believe both targets are eminently achievable
if the supporters are serious about wanting fans
representation.  The clubs protocol agreement is in the
process of being amended to facilitate the terms, roles and
responsibilities of the new post and should be agreed by the
board within the next four weeks. We now need the support of
everyone to get behind this initiative and take this golden
opportunity for the fans to play a major role in the running
of the club both now, and in the future.    Up The Mariners  
Mariners TrustBoard  

    

Go on then , I'll go first.... 30k per annum? Is this achievable? Has even 30k been raised in the Trust's entire existence?

Quoted from pizzzza

Go on then , I'll go first.... 30k per annum? Is this achievable? Has even 30k been raised in the Trust's entire existence?

20k I think the GTST raised over their whole existence...  

What a wonderful world we live in.

Great news to all involved! It's a start and can be achieved.

Again great news.

Quoted from davmariner

20k I think the GTST raised over their whole existence...  

Don't know what the old GTST raised but a representative of the Mariners Trust  told me they are well on target to reach the £30k, provided they can increase the membership to 750 and beyond.

My guess is the bars, the monthly draw thingy, Buckley and mcMenemy nights and membership fees all contribute a fair few quid

Well i guess the guantlet has well and truly been thrown down by the board now.
A black and white (Lol) offer there for the taking.

30k a season sounds a challenge and i would ask......does the term "to sit on the board" actually mean full voting rights in all things GTFC?

If so i would join the trust.

I will join the trust if the above questions are answered

Been a member (no, that isn't the auto correct) for years: don't understand why more haven't/didn't join when it was first concieved: Grimsby people just seem suspicious when money becomes an issue, but the annual subscription in nothing (in the big scheme of things) and all the original Trust Board members were keen as mustard and true town fans, as I believe the current board are too.

Please join and help your club.

Quoted from moosey_club

Well i guess the guantlet has well and truly been thrown down by the board now.
A black and white (Lol) offer there for the taking.

30k a season sounds a challenge and i would ask......does the term "to sit on the board" actually mean full voting rights in all things GTFC?

If so i would join the trust.

Once/if the trigger points are reached the agreement with JF and IF is for a full seat on the board of GTFC with the full powers, and responsibilities of all the other directors.

As stated this has to be ratified by the full board.

The Trust board think the triggers are very acheivable but in reality the membership numbers are down to the fans to show they actually want boardroom representation.

It is something that has never been a possibility in the history of GTFC and it is up to the fans to show they want it

Quoted from BlackBoots

Don't know what the old GTST raised but a representative of the Mariners Trust  told me they are well on target to reach the £30k, provided they can increase the membership to 750 and beyond.

My guess is the bars, the monthly draw thingy, Buckley and mcMenemy nights and membership fees all contribute a fair few quid

It will not be easy but we think it is very achievable if the fans support events, pay their membership fees and actually see that their money is making a difference to the club and giving them a voice.

Co-incidentaly there are still a few tickets left for the McMenemy evening.

Comedian, a GTFC legend who has spent a lifetime involved in Pro football, a meal, good company and help towards maintaining the Youth set up. Not bad at £20 for members

Question: What is the point of a seat on the board in terms of what isn't able to be achieved at the moment ?

I'd also be interested to know why 30K needs to be handed over in order for fans/members to have a voice.
Understand there must be reasons but surely the idea was to use cash to improve things for supporters ? (though I accept some will consider a place on the board will do just that).

Tbf the trust have already made some good improvements on behalf of fans even if personally, I haven't used the benefits.
For this reason + not attending e.g. those superb AB evenings I'm not sure it's PERSONALLY been value for money (or any real value) for ME.

All these catchphrases sound great but what does it all mean in real terms ?

Absolutely agree with the views of  "My Dogs Thoughts" above.  I have been a Trust member since the very beginning.  (I don't live in the Grimsby area either).

I think the questions worth asking have already been put forward.

If the seat is a full seat so to speak, voting rights and the like then it is certainly worth it and if enough was made of it then they could gain more members from that alone. I do think 30k a year is a high amount and could it seriously be achievable every year? What would happen if they fell short one year? Would the trust members get to nominate and vote etc for the person to take up the seat?

500 members is also still a small number of members given the club has around 1500 'die hards'. Not a dig but merely an observation that clearly the majority of the fans don't want to be a member or won't i suppose.
Is gaining another 250 minimum realistic too?

It would be a huge step forward for the club and the fans but I'm sure we all agree that there are clearly questions that need to be answered and hopefully they will be.

I read that 70% of £120,000 had been raised for the youth team. I'd be very interested to know how as that seems a huge amount

Why is it such a low figure? I thought Fenty had previously said it would cost 300k?

Given the fact that Fenty was "gifted" £200,000 worth of shares I dare say he (I'm sorry, I mean "the board") has made a decision to change the articles of association. Very good of him (them)!!

All seems very positive, good work and best of luck.

By the way, will subscriptions be renewed automatically? I have no idea when it's due for renewal and I've changed address Must be coming up to a year or so now since the relaunch?

Do the present board members hand over 30K every year and if so is it loans?
The trust should be an equal member as the rest of the board.

Quoted from gaz57

Do the present board members hand over 30K every year and if so is it loans?
The trust should be an equal member as the rest of the board.

This is exactly what I thought, when I actually read the e-mails I received lol...

excellent news - on the back of this news perhaps produce another flyer and get distributing them at home and away games??

Quoted from gaz57

Do the present board members hand over 30K every year and if so is it loans?
The trust should be an equal member as the rest of the board.

this, what the current board contribute is very vague

The whole thing seems very strange to me. I joined the original Trust when it first started but they seemed to give up on the idea of representation on the board. The new Trust also seemed to give up on this idea, they have already gifted Mr. Fenty £200K of shares and I believe that the board control the voting rights on another £200K, this still leaves the Trust with £100K of shares from the original £500K that Mike Parker gave them. However it is now deemed that the Trust (which represents the supporters)can have the longed for representation but it needs to fork out £30,000 per annum to take a place on the board. I appreciate that Fenty makes a financial commitment but none of the others do and yet they have less of a shareholding. Secondly as the club still has no Chairman shouldn't the Trust be dealing with Mr. Fleming rather than Mr. Fenty? Supporters already pay an annual subscription in the form of tickets.

Still haven't joined the trust yet I was waiting to see what happens etc.


Can your join on the trusts website?

Quoted from BlackandWhiteBarmy

The whole thing seems very strange to me. I joined the original Trust when it first started but they seemed to give up on the idea of representation on the board. The new Trust also seemed to give up on this idea, they have already gifted Mr. Fenty £200K of shares and I believe that the board control the voting rights on another £200K, this still leaves the Trust with £100K of shares from the original £500K that Mike Parker gave them. However it is now deemed that the Trust (which represents the supporters)can have the longed for representation but it needs to fork out £30,000 per annum to take a place on the board. I appreciate that Fenty makes a financial commitment but none of the others do and yet they have less of a shareholding. Secondly as the club still has no Chairman shouldn't the Trust be dealing with Mr. Fleming rather than Mr. Fenty? Supporters already pay an annual subscription in the form of tickets.

You can't be serious? They've given away another £200,000 worth of voting rights? Is this right?

I will be up next saturday for the Woking game,

Can I join the Trust on the day ?

Just a thought, if the Trust have to hand over £30,000 per season,

Are all the other board members doing the same ?

Quoted from GodHelpUs

You can't be serious? They've given away another £200,000 worth of voting rights? Is this right?

No, that is totally incorrect

So do the other board members as Pete says have to cough up 30k every year? How much do they currently put into the club yearly?

Quoted from Mariners Trust

Once/if the trigger points are reached the agreement with JF and IF is for a full seat on the board of GTFC with the full powers, and responsibilities of all the other directors.

As stated this has to be ratified by the full board.

The Trust board think the triggers are very acheivable but in reality the membership numbers are down to the fans to show they actually want boardroom representation.

It is something that has never been a possibility in the history of GTFC and it is up to the fans to show they want it

Thanks for that. When are the full board to consider ratifying the decision?

Also another point which has popped up out of your response.......... and full responsibilities of all other directors....does that include a share of any club debts and if so would that fall onto trust members?

Lets say that a generous benefactor withdrew support from the club and requested his loans back.... liable for a share of that debt?

Could any shortfall in the £30k be made up in shares?

Quoted from moosey_club

and full responsibilities of all other directors....does that include a share of any club debts and if so would that fall onto trust members?

WTF ?!!  
I would seriously hope that's impossible and a no brainer.
Amongst other things I joined to help raise a few quid not be liable for any share of millions of pounds worth of debt !

It's about time the Trust set up a table in one of the club bars pre-match and allowe people to join n the spot paying in cash. That would boost membership because the paypal thing doesn't work for evreyone (i.e me) and it is simply less hassle this way.

There is so much crap spouted on here about the Trust by so many who know so little and CHOOSE to remain in the dark (and some of you should know better.)  If you want specific answers to your questions man up and make the effort to talk to a Trust representative who attend every home game.   How hard can it be?

Quoted from HarryHaddocks

There is so much crap spouted on here about the Trust by so many who know so little and CHOOSE to remain in the dark (and some of you should know better.)  If you want specific answers to your questions man up and make the effort to talk to a Trust representative who attend every home game.   How hard can it be?

Maybe people dont know them from Adam?
Not everyone knows who is and who isnt a trust member.

Quoted from moosey_club

Maybe people dont know them from Adam?
Not everyone knows who is and who isnt a trust member.

Why don't you contact them direct - they are not hiding.

Here's a link to all their email addresses:
  
http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/index.php/contactus

In fact here - I'll copy and paste for you.

Name     Position      Email      Phone
Chris Parker      Chairman      ChrisParker@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827
Dave Roberts      Secretary      DaveRoberts@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827
Dan Humphrey      Board Member      DanHumphrey@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827
Graham Precious      Board Member      grahamprecious@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827
Ian Fitzgerald      Board Member      IanFitzgerald@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827
Marc Reed      Board Member      MarcReed@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827
Ian Townsend      Treasurer      IanTownsend@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827
Jon Wood      Board Member      JonWood@marinerstrust.co.uk      0870 4711 827

The Trust AGM is on Wednesday evening at 6.30pm. (Trust bar Lower Findus)

Once the formalities are over we would be pleased to answer any questions from members and non members alike

If you can't make it e-mail questions or PM me and we will put together a Q&A to respond collectivly to avoid duplication

Chris, I do think Paris Mariner's idea to set up a table in the bar pre and post match would be a great idea. It would put a face to the names (I know most of you but not everyone does). I reckon you could get a few sign ups and edge towards that magical figure.

Maybe get amongst the crowd at half time and try and sell the trust? Or at least publicise the board's availability after the game.

I'm not one to suggest other people do things without offering to help myself. Not sure what I can do but if you want a hand setting up or anything, just ask.

Cheers

'Fit and proper person '
well thats us lot out then  

Quoted from HarryHaddocks

There is so much crap spouted on here about the Trust by so many who know so little and CHOOSE to remain in the dark (and some of you should know better.)  If you want specific answers to your questions man up and make the effort to talk to a Trust representative who attend every home game.   How hard can it be?

Tbf perhaps the trust should have thought ahead and also been more specific with what it all means before they decided to anounce it.

Fine to ask questions but this idea that it's up to the customer to "make an effort" isn't really living in the real world.

And it's all well and good saying "We now need the support of everyone to get behind this initiative" and "down to the fans to show they actually want boardroom representation.", but if you make a threadbare case it's hardly suprising if people aren't queing around the block to get involved or even ask questions.

Sorry but you'll rarely find companies who sell products blaming missing customers or even expecting them to run around in search of something they may be apathetic towards in the first place.

Especially when answers could be answered on here IMO  - so ok even as a member I admit I'm choosing not to fart around with e-mail or not bother giving up my half time break but equally the trust have seemingly decided not to answer questions on here.

As I've said before the trust have done some very good things on behalf of fans but got to be honest, when the statement reads "prove that we are a credible rganisation" then for me, it also sums up a general lack of sales skills.

So if it ends up in failure I'd suggest it won't ALL be the fault of those who weren't persuaded to get off their bottom but also those trying to sell the product (whatever it actually is).

Quoted from 1600

so ok even as a member I admit I'm choosing not to fart around with e-mail or not bother giving up my half time break but equally the trust have seemingly decided not to answer questions on here.

So if it ends up in failure I'd suggest it won't ALL be the fault of those who weren't persuaded to get off their bottom but also those trying to sell the product (whatever it actually is).

It's deliciously ironic that you list in your (some might say patronising?) signature: Rule #1 - avoid sliding into self defeating comfort zones.

Stick to your own mantra dear boy, and encourage others to do the same.

Seek and ye shall find.

We are not talking about 'customers' here. At least not in the traditional sense.

I think the trust have been transparent enough in their approach, perhaps they could shout a little louder. In my opinion, all ardent Town fans should join up. It takes two minutes, costs pennies and by earning a seat on the Town board the fans could genuinely influence the direction of the club.

And for the 'cost effective fan', It'll pay for itself with cheap tickets for events such as the Alan Buckley evening or the forthcoming Lawrie Mac night.

Join up, you know it makes sense.  

Quoted from 75

We are not talking about 'customers' here. At least not in the traditional sense.

I think the trust have been transparent enough in their approach, perhaps they could shout a little louder. In my opinion, all ardent Town fans should join up. It takes two minutes, costs pennies and by earning a seat on the Town board the fans could genuinely influence the direction of the club.

And for the 'cost effective fan', It'll pay for itself with cheap tickets for events such as the Alan Buckley evening or the forthcoming Lawrie Mac night.

Join up, you know it makes sense.  

Hear bloody hear. BP Vicar post = nail on head.

Quoted from 1600

Fine to ask questions but this idea that it's up to the customer to "make an effort" isn't really living in the real world.

And it's all well and good saying "We now need the support of everyone to get behind this initiative" and "down to the fans to show they actually want boardroom representation.", but if you make a threadbare case it's hardly suprising if people aren't queing around the block to get involved or even ask questions.

Sorry but you'll rarely find companies who sell products blaming missing customers or even expecting them to run around in search of something they may be apathetic towards in the first place.

For the first bit: Customers know what they want, so companies do and have done asked and encouraged customers to get more involved in ways of like sites like this, FORUMS, so companies can get feedback into what customers think, want, and what will make them happy. Pretty basic in modern day reality really. No offense.

And as for "We now need the support of everyone to get behind this initiative" and "down to the fans to show they actually want boardroom representation." Makes perfect sense to me. I mean what's the point in the supporter's trust if, one, no one trust them? Two, the supporters aren't interested? If the SUPPORTERS that want such things to happen, then naturally they have to take action otherwise what's the point in the idea, if no one is willing to back it?

I would love to learn more about the trust and join it, but best to wait until I have a pernmanent job first (more secure job). Every little helps and all that.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

I would love to learn more about the trust and join it, but best to wait until I have a pernmanent job first (more secure job). Every little helps and all that.

It's £15 a year mate. Come on, you can pay £15. I know you can!

Sign up now and start the ball rolling.



Link below shows all membership options:

http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/index.php/shop/category/12-mariners-trust-membership

Quoted from 75

It's £15 a year mate. Come on, you can pay £15. I know you can!

Sign up now and start the ball rolling.



Link below shows all membership options:

http://www.marinerstrust.co.uk/index.php/shop/category/12-mariners-trust-membership

Ah wow cool. In that case I will certainly join.  

Quoted from Gary Haddock

For the first bit: Customers know what they want, so companies do and have done asked and encouraged customers to get more involved in ways of like sites like this, FORUMS, so companies can get feedback into what customers think, want, and what will make them happy. Pretty basic in modern day reality really. No offense.

And as for "We now need the support of everyone to get behind this initiative" and "down to the fans to show they actually want boardroom representation." Makes perfect sense to me. I mean what's the point in the supporter's trust if, one, no one trust them? Two, the supporters aren't interested? If the SUPPORTERS that want such things to happen, then naturally they have to take action otherwise what's the point in the idea, if no one is willing to back it?

I would love to learn more about the trust and join it, but best to wait until I have a pernmanent job first (more secure job). Every little helps and all that.

It's a pound a month Gary, 25p a week and as you said mate, every little helps.

I would just like someone to run the club without budgeting to lose 10k a week. Mr Fenty made clear that the bennet money saved us this year. Who set the budget John ?

Quoted from Cott_Mike

I would just like someone to run the club without budgeting to lose 10k a week. Mr Fenty made clear that the bennet money saved us this year. Who set the budget John ?

John Fenty is meeting the 10k a week loss, indirectly but he has stated his loan is benign.

If we had a playing budget - £520k then we would be a very poor side indeed but in answer to your question I am quite sure John would tell you the board set the budget.

At the end of the day, if we stripped 520k a year off the playing budget (almost half I reckon) then we wouldn't be getting the attendances we are getting now and we would have to cut even more.

We are having a right go at getting back in the league and acquiring that TV money again. It's that or fester in this God awful league.

Quoted from HarryHaddocks

There is so much crap spouted on here about the Trust by so many who know so little and CHOOSE to remain in the dark (and some of you should know better.)  If you want specific answers to your questions man up and make the effort to talk to a Trust representative who attend every home game.   How hard can it be?

I was just trying to suggest an idea which I thought might help boost numbers more than anything. Also, as this is a Mariners Trust thread, I'd assume the matter would be read by the appropriate people and appreciated as a suggestion not a criticism.

Quoted from HarryHaddocks

It's deliciously ironic that you list in your (some might say patronising?) signature: Rule #1 - avoid sliding into self defeating comfort zones.

Not sure I see you exact point tbh.
To be clear that "rule" was mainly to do with attitudes towards team tactics.

Quoted from HarryHaddocks

Seek and ye shall find.

Fair enough a good point but it can work both ways too.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

And as for "We now need the support of everyone to get behind this initiative" and "down to the fans to show they actually want boardroom representation." Makes perfect sense to me. I mean what's the point in the supporter's trust if, one, no one trust them?

Well it's another issue but who said anything about "trust" ?

What I mean is yes, it's a great idea in principle but what are the plans and finer details about how it's all gonna work ?

-Will trust members get one vote each and will any final vote be equivalent to one full vote on the board ?
-Will individual members be able to put forward proposals or will that be down to the trust board members ?

That kind of thing...

Perhaps I'm being thick but I'd guess I'm not the only one who doesn't know all the ins and outs.
Surely the trust expected these kind of questions to crop up ?
All I'm saying is a few more details might go a long way but who knows.

Quoted from Cott_Mike

I would just like someone to run the club without budgeting to lose 10k a week. Mr Fenty made clear that the bennet money saved us this year. Who set the budget John ?

Funny you mention this actually cos as a trust member noticed they made another announcement vie e-mail.

Can't remember the full details (and tbh can't be arsed to look right now) but think it was something to do with sustainability and the point was made something like "If you have a low budget you're budgeting for failure" (or something like that...)

Thought it was a good enough point tbh.

Quoted from 1600

What I mean is yes, it's a great idea in principle but what are the plans and finer details about how it's all gonna work ?

-Will trust members get one vote each and will any final vote be equivalent to one full vote on the board ?
-Will individual members be able to put forward proposals or will that be down to the trust board members ?

Perhaps I'm being thick but I'd guess I'm not the only one who doesn't know all the ins and outs.
Surely the trust expected these kind of questions to crop up ?
All I'm saying is a few more details might go a long way but who knows.

I thought it was simple, though I am simple minded.    

Nah I thought it would be like this, we put money into trust, trust puts money into club? The more support, the more money. The more money, the bigger the influence on the board.

I might be wrong though.  

But now I know that it is quite cheap and easy to become a member, I will join and do my bit. Yes we also do our bit by going to games and buying tickets etc, but every little helps and £15 a year the more supporters that join, the more that will mount up etc, can only help.

Quoted from 75

John Fenty is meeting the 10k a week loss, indirectly but he has stated his loan is benign.

If we had a playing budget - £520k then we would be a very poor side indeed but in answer to your question I am quite sure John would tell you the board set the budget.

At the end of the day, if we stripped 520k a year off the playing budget (almost half I reckon) then we wouldn't be getting the attendances we are getting now and we would have to cut even more.

We are having a right go at getting back in the league and acquiring that TV money again. It's that or fester in this God awful league.

We were losing more in the league as a %age of income than we are now.

Quoted from HarryHaddocks

There is so much crap spouted on here about the Trust by so many who know so little and CHOOSE to remain in the dark (and some of you should know better.)  If you want specific answers to your questions man up and make the effort to talk to a Trust representative who attend every home game.   How hard can it be?

Are you being serious or having a laugh, why can't people ask questions on here to the trust, they are always starting threads on here and other sites so why not respond directly on here.

I see that no one has answered the question, do the other directors contribute £30,000.00 per annum.

Quoted from arryarryarry

Are you being serious or having a laugh, why can't people ask questions on here to the trust, they are always starting threads on here and other sites so why not respond directly on here.

I see that no one has answered the question, do the other directors contribute £30,000.00 per annum.

I believe they have to put up £50k which is why I think the Trust said 'negociated'.

Quoted from 1600

WTF ?!!  
I would seriously hope that's impossible and a no brainer.
Amongst other things I joined to help raise a few quid not be liable for any share of millions of pounds worth of debt !

For someone who posts in a superior manner you sure are thick!

Do you think that for one moment you, or indeed anybody else, is 'liable for a share of millions of ponds worth of debt' because you signed a membership form???

Quoted from 75

John Fenty is meeting the 10k a week loss, indirectly but he has stated his loan is benign.

If we had a playing budget - £520k then we would be a very poor side indeed but in answer to your question I am quite sure John would tell you the board set the budget.

At the end of the day, if we stripped 520k a year off the playing budget (almost half I reckon) then we wouldn't be getting the attendances we are getting now and we would have to cut even more.

We are having a right go at getting back in the league and acquiring that TV money again. It's that or fester in this God awful league.

I think the sustainability thing the Trust sent out covered some of this.

Chatting at last nights game i now understand that this seasons playing budget is around £900k and the projected loss is around £500k. Most of this is covered by further money from the Bennett sell on clause and someone else(?) Connell(?)

Next season we need to either cut our cloth, to a playing budget of around £400k or find ways of reducing the loss by funding.

I, dont really want the club to get into more hock with Fenty but equally i dont want us to have a budget over 50% less than this year as that would mean almost certainly a mid table finish at best (plus lower gates means even less budget the next year)

I dont know what the way forward is but if the Trust can help, canvass members who have sensible, informed ideas then that can only be a good thing can't it?

In the meantime we need to support the club, Trust and everyone else and pray we can get up this season via the play offs as Icant see us going up as champs

Quoted from BlackBoots

For someone who posts in a superior manner you sure are thick!

Do you think that for one moment you, or indeed anybody else, is 'liable for a share of millions of ponds worth of debt' because you signed a membership form???

Cheers mate.
Actually I was trying to use a bit of wit and sarcasm and answer the question myself without ever dreaming of implying anyone else was "thick". (and moosey certainly isn't)
But there you go the bubbles burst now.

Quoted from BlackandWhiteBarmy

The whole thing seems very strange to me. I joined the original Trust when it first started but they seemed to give up on the idea of representation on the board. The new Trust also seemed to give up on this idea, they have already gifted Mr. Fenty £200K of shares and I believe that the board control the voting rights on another £200K, this still leaves the Trust with £100K of shares from the original £500K that Mike Parker gave them. However it is now deemed that the Trust (which represents the supporters)can have the longed for representation but it needs to fork out £30,000 per annum to take a place on the board. I appreciate that Fenty makes a financial commitment but none of the others do and yet they have less of a shareholding. Secondly as the club still has no Chairman shouldn't the Trust be dealing with Mr. Fleming rather than Mr. Fenty? Supporters already pay an annual subscription in the form of tickets.

my memory of all this is hazy at best but didn't the trust give away (without consulting its members) the voting rights of 200,000 shares to a chairman (which we still don't have?!) then give (following a ballot) 200,000 shares to fenty - leaving 100k shares with voting rights and 200k without?

Quoted from Denby

my memory of all this is hazy at best but didn't the trust give away (without consulting its members) the voting rights of 200,000 shares to a chairman (which we still don't have?!) then give (following a ballot) 200,000 shares to fenty - leaving 100k shares with voting rights and 200k without?

Incorrect

to save me trawling around - what is the situation, chris?

Quoted from Wrawby_Mariner

It's a pound a month Gary, 25p a week and as you said mate, every little helps.

A pound a month? I thought it was £15 to join... 12 months in a year...

Quoted from BIGChris

Incorrect

Incorrect or not...you certainly gave away 200,000 shares to a multimillionaire after he made a few threats. Vote or not, do you really think that is the job of a Supporters Trust? I'd be fascinated to hear what Supporters Direct thought.

Quoted from Denby

to save me trawling around - what is the situation, chris?

The voting rights were a temporary measure whilst the vote was put to the members. When that was overwhelmingly approved (81%), the transfer of the shares (the same shares that initially had the voting rights attached) was completed.

We worked closely with Supporters Direct at the time continue to do so (visiting their offices in London and, more recently, meeting with their officers at BP)

Quoted from GodHelpUs

Incorrect or not...you certainly gave away 200,000 shares to a multimillionaire after he made a few threats. Vote or not, do you really think that is the job of a Supporters Trust? I'd be fascinated to hear what Supporters Direct thought.

Ok; i will rise to the bait here.
We carried out a ballot of all trust members to decide- are you suggesting that either that was the wrong thing to do, OR that we should have then ignored the result of the ballot?

If you are fascinated, feel free to contact SD and let us know what they say.......

So let me get this right:
The trust gave JF loads of shares.
Fenty (or maybe the board) has now told the trust that if they want a say, it will cost then £30,000 a year.
How was this sum arrived at?
Why do the other directors not have to pay anything?
I'm no expert but it seems that the trust are being made to pay for the clown-like business decisions that have almost destroyed the club.
To sum up:
JF - thanks trust I'll have 200K worth of shares for f'kall
JF - 30K a year to be argued with and given no real say in GTFC matters.
That seems fair - NOT

Quoted from davmariner

A pound a month? I thought it was £15 to join... 12 months in a year...

I think if you do a one off payment it's £15 but if you do a standing order it's £12?  That's how I read it anyway.
Also looking at the membership form you can do it monthly at £1 a month, which is nothing really  

Also when I went in the trust bar before the Kiddy match there were membership forms dotted around the place so I'm assuming you can fill one in there and hand it in to someone.

Quoted from Paris Mariner

I believe they have to put up £50k which is why I think the Trust said 'negociated'.

Thank you, so what you are saying is that the other directors put in £50,000.00 per annum?

Quoted from STB

So let me get this right:
The trust gave JF loads of shares.
Fenty (or maybe the board) has now told the trust that if they want a say, it will cost then £30,000 a year.
How was this sum arrived at?
Why do the other directors not have to pay anything?
I'm no expert but it seems that the trust are being made to pay for the clown-like business decisions that have almost destroyed the club.
To sum up:
JF - thanks trust I'll have 200K worth of shares for f'kall
JF - 30K a year to be argued with and given no real say in GTFC matters.
That seems fair - NOT

I will try and give a more factual version;

The Trust voted to transfer some shares to JF in return for him buying a similar number of shares himself. £200k isn't f'all to me and i doubt to many on here?

The Trust released a document which shows the funding gap between a decent budget and current income. The options seem to me to be;
1) Get JF to lend the club even more money (I for one are not keen on this)
2) We set a budget around £400k ( this year £900k) and sign long term non league journey men and a few part timers(this would g'tee long term conference football)
3) The fans try and do whatever they can to support the club (over and above gate money)which it seems to me is what the Trust are trying to do with the £30k.

The thing i read in the paper this week made sense to me; IF the Trust are to have any influence this can only happen by being at the boardroom table. Trying to have a say from the corridor is impossible in any business.

It just seems some want to be keyboard warriors and be critical of everything, rather than give some support to those who are trying to make a difference. They may fail BUT at least they are getting of their arses and trying

Sorry, I was led to believe that the trust gave 200K worth of shares to JF.

Quoted from moosey_club

Thanks for that. When are the full board to consider ratifying the decision?

Also another point which has popped up out of your response.......... and full responsibilities of all other directors....does that include a share of any club debts and if so would that fall onto trust members?

Lets say that a generous benefactor withdrew support from the club and requested his loans back.... liable for a share of that debt?

Still waiting for an  answer on these three points if any trust board member would care to answer.

I'm somewhat unsure as to the influence and therefore what difference the good men of the Trust board will achieve with a seat of the board of GTFC as the football club is ran by JF and JF alone. His word is King, some will say rightly so given that it is his money (or his loans) that continue to keep the club going IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

I was on the board of the Trust before my resignation in the summer. I still fully support the Trust and the board thereon. However, I was left frustrated reading the circular that was emailed to members.

It's about a year since the Trust were gifted the shares and about a year since JF made all the noise about the club running out of funds. The threat of administration loomed and the men on the Trust board worked hard to negotiate with JF about how a resolution could be found to guarantee funding of the Football clubs budget shortfall. The way I saw it was that we were trying to find a way to get JF to put in the money he had promised he would, while JF was of the opinion that MP had broken his agreement and therefore JF's pledge was null and void. Whatever. I voted against gifting the shares to JF as the offer stood. We weren't actually getting anything in return as far as I could see. While I wanted concessions there and then for the gifting of the shares (triggers set in place for the award of a seat on the Clubs board was one of them), others on the (Trust)board took about a slightly different approach. Their patience would appear to have been paid off and in doing so they have achieved what appears to be a trusting and solid relationship with JF, that could well be advantageous into the future. Without this relationship, I doubt the bars would have been placed under the stewardship of the Trust.

The problem I have with this arrangement, is that the agreement was that JF had promised to make up the budget deficit for the next 18 months (starting last February), and would include the Trust FULLY in setting future budgets. The problem I had with such a statement then remains the same now,: what IS that shortfall and how would any funds put into the club by JF over that period me put in (loans, gifts, share puchase etc), we never actually got an answer.

Now it would seem that player sales has bridged the gap (as I had indeed suspected it would). What this means is that JF was gifted 200,000 shares in return for goodwill.

Is goodwill worth the 200,000 in shares? Possibly. Possibly not.

You may well ask why this matters now. It matters now (to me) because it matttered then (to me).

There is no doubt that we have to find a way to fund the football club without relying on an individuals loans. It has to be ran sustainably. We have to stop spending more than we earn. Its a no brainer in my opinion.

The Mariners Trust is fronted by hard working men. Some with fantastic relevant experience, others driven by knowledge of the world in general and the passion of GTFC. They have a patient, mature head and a sensible conservative financial grasp on things. I often dont agree with their decision making, the way they go about things. Id argue that they arent demanding enough, dont ask the awkward questions and a s a reuslt progress is slow and usually a compromise too far. But they are just my opinion, my frustrations. Others will disagree with me, and see that the progress they have made is worth compromise and patience. Its all about opinion.

Greater numbers will give greater influence I am sure. I strongly believe the Trust board needs new blood, people who will ask the awkward questions internally and publicly, without fear or apprehension. The Trust won't ever appeal to everyone. But if you believe in the philosophy of the Mariners Trust, if you can share some of their written aspirations, then if you can join, you should.

1 pound a month ? Jees that is fuk all. Will do it online later..

For my part any faith or support I had for the organisation (I use the word loosely) disappeared when they rolled over and gave the one asset they had to Fenty for nowt.

The day the 'seat on the board' proves to be anything more than sharpening the pencils and making the tea let me know.

Quoted from jointhetrust

Ok; i will rise to the bait here.
We carried out a ballot of all trust members to decide- are you suggesting that either that was the wrong thing to do, OR that we should have then ignored the result of the ballot?

Yes I am! In fact I am saying that there shouldn't have been a ballot in the first place!  The idea of gifting the shares to JF was unthinkable and the situation demanded leadership from the Trust Board!  There was absolutely no way the Club would have been put into admin - it was a bluff. Furthermore if Fenty's loans are "benign" as he puts it he could have awarded himself 200,000 shares and written off £200,000 of debt.  If he chose not to do that we should have just stopped negotiating and told him to take a running jump.  Now the cheeky sod wants £30,000 a year!!

Typed 2 replies can't even be bothered to post them cos of the finger pointing.

I don't see any problem with the trust financing the club with £30,000 a year - if it's possible to raise it. I'm a member of the trust, but must confess I have absolutely no idea about the structure of the trust, their finances, and haven't really done anything since sending of the membership form. But the way I see it is the trust is still a shareholder and the club needs financing in many different ways. What is the problem people have with the trust contributing to that if they are able to? Surely the point of the trust - as well as giving fans a voice in the running of the club, is to contribute to its health. Why would anyone think an additional 30k going into the clubs coffers is a bad thing? If the trust can raise this money, what else do people expect them to do with it?

For me there's no problem per se (though what happened to "supporters trust" i.e. doing things for supporters ?)

It's mainly just it aint working enough in it's current form to attract enough members.
We might get the 750 or maybe 1000 but enough to achieve part-sustainability year in year out ?
Sorry but you're having a laugh !

Until people stop moaning at people they perceive to always be moaning or be willing to criticize themselves I doubt anything will ever really catch on.
We can wrongly slag people off all we want on here but the fishy isn't the only "catchment area" so maybe the proof is in the pudding.
And yes I've joined.

Quoted from Chris

I'm somewhat unsure as to the influence and therefore what difference the good men of the Trust board will achieve with a seat of the board of GTFC as the football club is ran by JF and JF alone. His word is King, some will say rightly so given that it is his money (or his loans) that continue to keep the club going IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

I was on the board of the Trust before my resignation in the summer. I still fully support the Trust and the board thereon. However, I was left frustrated reading the circular that was emailed to members.

It's about a year since the Trust were gifted the shares and about a year since JF made all the noise about the club running out of funds. The threat of administration loomed and the men on the Trust board worked hard to negotiate with JF about how a resolution could be found to guarantee funding of the Football clubs budget shortfall. The way I saw it was that we were trying to find a way to get JF to put in the money he had promised he would, while JF was of the opinion that MP had broken his agreement and therefore JF's pledge was null and void. Whatever. I voted against gifting the shares to JF as the offer stood. We weren't actually getting anything in return as far as I could see. While I wanted concessions there and then for the gifting of the shares (triggers set in place for the award of a seat on the Clubs board was one of them), others on the (Trust)board took about a slightly different approach. Their patience would appear to have been paid off and in doing so they have achieved what appears to be a trusting and solid relationship with JF, that could well be advantageous into the future. Without this relationship, I doubt the bars would have been placed under the stewardship of the Trust.

The problem I have with this arrangement, is that the agreement was that JF had promised to make up the budget deficit for the next 18 months (starting last February), and would include the Trust FULLY in setting future budgets. The problem I had with such a statement then remains the same now,: what IS that shortfall and how would any funds put into the club by JF over that period me put in (loans, gifts, share puchase etc), we never actually got an answer.

Now it would seem that player sales has bridged the gap (as I had indeed suspected it would). What this means is that JF was gifted 200,000 shares in return for goodwill.

Is goodwill worth the 200,000 in shares? Possibly. Possibly not.

You may well ask why this matters now. It matters now (to me) because it matttered then (to me).

There is no doubt that we have to find a way to fund the football club without relying on an individuals loans. It has to be ran sustainably. We have to stop spending more than we earn. Its a no brainer in my opinion.

The Mariners Trust is fronted by hard working men. Some with fantastic relevant experience, others driven by knowledge of the world in general and the passion of GTFC. They have a patient, mature head and a sensible conservative financial grasp on things. I often dont agree with their decision making, the way they go about things. Id argue that they arent demanding enough, dont ask the awkward questions and a s a reuslt progress is slow and usually a compromise too far. But they are just my opinion, my frustrations. Others will disagree with me, and see that the progress they have made is worth compromise and patience. Its all about opinion.

Greater numbers will give greater influence I am sure. I strongly believe the Trust board needs new blood, people who will ask the awkward questions internally and publicly, without fear or apprehension. The Trust won't ever appeal to everyone. But if you believe in the philosophy of the Mariners Trust, if you can share some of their written aspirations, then if you can join, you should.

Fantastic post.  I shared the concerns Chris had, I felt at the time a (metaphorical) gun was put to the head of the Trust and the members democratically accepted the first offer they had. I felt that was wrong and still do. I think those who have negotiated to get to this point should be congratulated for their hard work. My personal opinion is that certain individuials at the club don't want the trust involved and keep putting roadblocks in the way.

Interestingly, down the road in Scunthorpe Steve Wharton has promised the Iron Trust a seat on the board once they get 300 members and he doesn't require an annual sum...

Quoted from BlackBoots

They may fail BUT at least they are getting of their arses and trying

Fair enough but pats on the back aren't of much help to the future of GTFC.

If the Trust can raise £30K a year then it should keep it and build up its own funds ready for the time when benign loans are suddenly not benign. Trusts need money and you only have to look at Darlington etc. to see why.

The club should not be putting targets up for the Trust to get a seat on the board, when other board members do not have to meet similar targets. Either give the Trust a seat using the same criteria as other board members and put it to a vote at the AGM or tell them to bog off, but don't ry and bleed them dry every time it lookds like they may be getting somewhere.

The Trust are not a threat, they want the same as everybody else and that includes the present board.

Quoted from Dan

I don't see any problem with the trust financing the club with £30,000 a year - if it's possible to raise it. I'm a member of the trust, but must confess I have absolutely no idea about the structure of the trust, their finances, and haven't really done anything since sending of the membership form. But the way I see it is the trust is still a shareholder and the club needs financing in many different ways. What is the problem people have with the trust contributing to that if they are able to? Surely the point of the trust - as well as giving fans a voice in the running of the club, is to contribute to its health. Why would anyone think an additional 30k going into the clubs coffers is a bad thing? If the trust can raise this money, what else do people expect them to do with it?

I don't see a problem with the Trust financing the Club either Dan, what I do have a problem with is it being a precondition of board representation especially when they have gifted JF 200,000 shares.  It isn't a prerequisite of the other board members so why the Trust?

As far as I'm aware - through the historical fishy grapevine - there is a pre-condition that board members put up a lump sum. I can't remember what I read, but seem to think it was £50,000. It could be much more though. If it is much more - 250,000 say, then really the cost of this is just being spread over many years.

I'm taking no stance on the politics of either the results of giving the shares away or JF's demands, only the fact that giving the trust a clear target in terms of membership numbers and finance should actually be a healthy thing.

Trusts are not the way to go you end up with jobsworths who just like the position of power no insult towards those currently involved.At Lincoln it was fantastic for a few years and there were some good people involved now it's awful people with no talent or drive involved and its now just a cosy little old boy club.

The Trust giving away all those shares to JF is like giving a blow job to someone who has just killed your family.

as a member of the trust since its inception and a firm supporter of it i have to say that i agreed with chris' point of view last year and am inclined to agree with his latest post.
unfortunately it does seem like the club are taking the mickey out of the Trust again. if the criteria for joining the board is £50,00 for everyone else up front then why have the rules suddenly changed when it's the Trust who want to come on board? are the other directors now under  a similar obligation to donate thousands of pounds every year in order to keep their seat on the Board? no , i thought not.
and as soon as the trust fails to raise the £30k you can bet your bottom dollar that we'll be booted out the door - whilst the other directors who contribute feck all comapratively, will continue to 'serve' the club, whilst making full use of the hospitality advantages afforded by Board memebership

Quoted from STB

The Trust giving away all those shares to JF is like giving a blow job to someone who has just killed your family.

that is one way of looking at it.

Seriously though £30,000 is steep for a supporters Trust to join.

How many members do The Trust have?

It may appear to some that the Directors do not want the Trust on the board, this may not be the case though with out looking at the other Directors financial input

Quoted from forza ivano

as a member of the trust since its inception and a firm supporter of it i have to say that i agreed with chris' point of view last year and am inclined to agree with his latest post.
unfortunately it does seem like the club are taking the mickey out of the Trust again. if the criteria for joining the board is £50,00 for everyone else up front then why have the rules suddenly changed when it's the Trust who want to come on board? are the other directors now under  a similar obligation to donate thousands of pounds every year in order to keep their seat on the Board? no , i thought not.
and as soon as the trust fails to raise the £30k you can bet your bottom dollar that we'll be booted out the door - whilst the other directors who contribute feck all comapratively, will continue to 'serve' the club, whilst making full use of the hospitality advantages afforded by Board memebership

No members of the Trust Board are willing to take advantage of any directors advantages at a match day and have said this since any mention of a seat on the Board came about. I can't speak for any other Trust Board member but in my opinion we are just fans like everyone else and thats all we will be. All we want to do is try and make a difference, Id do what ever for the Trust whether I was on the Board or not, it seems there is just isn't enough people with the time to do it or have the typical 'someone else will do it' attitude. I know the idea of a Trust doesn't float everyones boat but together we can achieve much.

I think you got confused with the Trust Board and the GTFC Board of Directors (Chapman and Elsom is it? the silent ones) who enjoy whatever the probably naff hospitality it is 5 tier football has to offer.

I would fully expect whoever represents the Trust on the Club's board of directors (if it happens) to "take advantage" of the hospitalility on offer! An important part of being a director is to network with those of other clubs exchanging information and ideas. I may be wrong but, as I recall, they pay for their own drinks at home games although they may get the odd butty thrown in!!

Quoted from BlackandWhiteBarmy

If the Trust can raise £30K a year then it should keep it and build up its own funds ready for the time when benign loans are suddenly not benign. Trusts need money and you only have to look at Darlington etc. to see why.

The club should not be putting targets up for the Trust to get a seat on the board, when other board members do not have to meet similar targets. Either give the Trust a seat using the same criteria as other board members and put it to a vote at the AGM or tell them to bog off, but don't ry and bleed them dry every time it lookds like they may be getting somewhere.

The Trust are not a threat, they want the same as everybody else and that includes the present board.

This. I have always said the trust should be preparing for life without Fenty and they should have no part in funding the current regime. As a trust member I would like to see the trust save for the future as I  feel if the club is not promoted this or next season we will be copulated and our glorious leader may leave is right in sticky stuff.

Great meeting last night. ( AGM ) Please folks. These people involved with the Trust are doing the best they can for the benefit of our football club. I as a member was pleasantly suprised with the progession that these very committed people are achieving.  They are working tremendously hard for the cause as I could see last night.  With very little thanks too! reading this board or the Apathy amongst the general Town fan. That's the way I see it.

  Well done to Chris Parker ( Chairman ) and his team.

If you want a say?  Join the MARINERS TRUST!  Simple.   UTM!

Quoted from sonik

Great meeting last night. ( AGM ) Please folks. These people involved with the Trust are doing the best they can for the benefit of our football club. I as a member was pleasantly suprised with the progession that these very committed people are achieving.  They are working tremendously hard for the cause as I could see last night.  With very little thanks too! reading this board or the Apathy amongst the general Town fan. That's the way I see it.

  Well done to Chris Parker ( Chairman ) and his team.

If you want a say?  Join the MARINERS TRUST!  Simple.   UTM!

With all respect Sonik (and I'm sure you're a thoroughly decent bloke) you're not exactly impartial, are you? Likewise I'm sure the Trust Board are thoroughly decent but your brother being a seasoned and successful businessman pulled a fast one quite frankly....a supporters' trust should not, under any circumstances gift 200,00 shares to a private individual! Simple!!

Quoted from sonik

Great meeting last night. ( AGM ) Please folks. These people involved with the Trust are doing the best they can for the benefit of our football club. I as a member was pleasantly suprised with the progession that these very committed people are achieving.  They are working tremendously hard for the cause as I could see last night.  With very little thanks too! reading this board or the Apathy amongst the general Town fan. That's the way I see it.

  Well done to Chris Parker ( Chairman ) and his team.

If you want a say?  Join the MARINERS TRUST!  Simple.   UTM!


With all respect Sonik (and I'm sure you're a thoroughly decent bloke) you're not exactly impartial, are you? Likewise I'm sure the Trust Board are thoroughly decent but your brother being a seasoned and successful businessman pulled a fast one quite frankly....a supporters' trust should not, under any circumstances gift 200,00 shares to a private individual! Simple!!

Yes I am actually.

I'm sure Chris Parker will be embarrassed about sonik describing the trust board as his team too! Chris is part of a group, he has no more of a say than any of the others. He is there to represent and communicate the wishes of the board.

Quoted from Chris

I'm sure Chris Parker will be embarrassed about sonik describing the trust board as his team too! Chris is part of a group, he has no more of a say than any of the others. He is there to represent and communicate the wishes of the board.

Very picky I think.  Thanks for that Chris!

Quoted from Chris

I'm sure Chris Parker will be embarrassed about sonik describing the trust board as his team too! Chris is part of a group, he has no more of a say than any of the others. He is there to represent and communicate the wishes of the board.

To be fair to Chris Parker, he does know what he's on about compared to most.