The rich get richer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/2012/10/premier_league_boosted_by_fore.html

The difference between the top and bottom levels of our game is staggering.

Well we have sky sports but we don't have ESPN because what's the point when we can watch perfectly good streams online free of charge

There's more foreign fans of the top clubs than English ones now. And it'll keep expanding as their economies vastly overshadow ours. A quick excursion to Old Trafford from China on a private jet will be run of the mill to them, most fans here will have to balance the budget and toss up between taking the kids to the match or paying the latest (hugely increased) leccy bill. The Premiership doesn't 'feel' like my game anymore.

And my alternative is the BSP and 20 away fans. Never thought the game I loved would knife me in the back like this

Quoted from RoboCod

The Premiership doesn't 'feel' like my game anymore.

And my alternative is the BSP and 20 away fans. Never thought the game I loved would knife me in the back like this

I've felt like this for a while now. There's the crazy money, the barmy entrance fees, the cheating and diving, the 'brand' nonsense. I looked at Arsenal's youthful lineup last night and I thought what chance has the England team got? It's full of foreign players, funded by foreign owners and feels foreign to me. I can't blame anyone for taking 200k a week if it's on offer, but I can't relate to a diving, snivelling cheat like Louis Suarez of Liverpool who disgraces the game and earns more in a month than I earn in 20 years.

I have never been more disillusioned with football.

Football is dead and in reality has been a for a long time. Unfortunately because the people at the top keep filling us with balderdash about it being brilliant, the premiership is brilliant etc enough people will buy into it...much the same as religion.

Football is simply a reflection of society. The rich get insanely richer yet the 'poorer' get poorer. I don't blame players for accepting the 200k a week, even the 2k a week. We would all do it but i think there is an issue within football, particularly regarding younger players. You have to ask, why don't 'English' lads make it through? Is it a lack of ability? Is it because there are clubs who can bring foreign players over cheaper? Or is it simply the fact the foreign youngsters want it more. These clubs throw money at players which is wrong but too many young lads apparently slip through the net when in fact it is because their expectations are too high. Di Canio made a valid point the other week, young lads care about the gold watch and how many different colours of their boots they can get instead of busting a gut to impress everyone, fans included at the club. Attitude is key and sadly too many English lads with ability have a shocking attitude which means the clubs sack em off but unfortunately the lads lacking cracking ability but have great attitudes also get left behind and become demoralised when they see these 'big time charlies' seemingly getting everything.

The game is over as we know it. Clubs don't care about their fans anymore, especially the higher up you go. If Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea lose 100 fans they know they'll find 150 elsewhere...thats how it is now. Loyalty to a club isn't like it is for us. We all know lots of people who'd rather stick a few bets on and sit at home with soccer saturday on or go to the pub and have little actual interest in a set club other than those on that betting slip. When we, meaning die hards, GTFC or whoever is our club, watch Jeff stelling we spend the whole time hoping the next vidiprinter movement is our team taking the lead etc...but then again, most of us would be watching our team because they mean something to us.

There are lots of factors that have helped slowly kill off the game, betting, money, SKY, the premier league and clubs and fans. We the fans are also partly to blame and the clubs know it, we are the ones stupid enough to pay the prices...I would like to know though what the returning week in week out fan numbers are for the top 10 clubs in the prima donna league...bet is less than 60%...a lot lower than ours for instance.

All this said, I along with many will continue going to watch my club wherever we may be playing and hope we achieve as much success as possible.

One thing i do ask though is...did football exist before the premier league because all these girl privates on TV seem to use it as a bench mark yet I'm sure football was around almost 100 years before the overpaid, overhyped league.

Quoted from aldi_01

Football is dead and in reality has been a for a long time. Unfortunately because the people at the top keep filling us with balderdash about it being brilliant, the premiership is brilliant etc enough people will buy into it...much the same as religion.

Football is simply a reflection of society. The rich get insanely richer yet the 'poorer' get poorer. I don't blame players for accepting the 200k a week, even the 2k a week. We would all do it but i think there is an issue within football, particularly regarding younger players. You have to ask, why don't 'English' lads make it through? Is it a lack of ability? Is it because there are clubs who can bring foreign players over cheaper? Or is it simply the fact the foreign youngsters want it more. These clubs throw money at players which is wrong but too many young lads apparently slip through the net when in fact it is because their expectations are too high. Di Canio made a valid point the other week, young lads care about the gold watch and how many different colours of their boots they can get instead of busting a gut to impress everyone, fans included at the club. Attitude is key and sadly too many English lads with ability have a shocking attitude which means the clubs sack em off but unfortunately the lads lacking cracking ability but have great attitudes also get left behind and become demoralised when they see these 'big time charlies' seemingly getting everything.

The game is over as we know it. Clubs don't care about their fans anymore, especially the higher up you go. If Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea lose 100 fans they know they'll find 150 elsewhere...thats how it is now. Loyalty to a club isn't like it is for us. We all know lots of people who'd rather stick a few bets on and sit at home with soccer saturday on or go to the pub and have little actual interest in a set club other than those on that betting slip. When we, meaning die hards, GTFC or whoever is our club, watch Jeff stelling we spend the whole time hoping the next vidiprinter movement is our team taking the lead etc...but then again, most of us would be watching our team because they mean something to us.

There are lots of factors that have helped slowly kill off the game, betting, money, SKY, the premier league and clubs and fans. We the fans are also partly to blame and the clubs know it, we are the ones stupid enough to pay the prices...I would like to know though what the returning week in week out fan numbers are for the top 10 clubs in the prima donna league...bet is less than 60%...a lot lower than ours for instance.

All this said, I along with many will continue going to watch my club wherever we may be playing and hope we achieve as much success as possible.

One thing i do ask though is...did football exist before the premier league because all these girl privates on TV seem to use it as a bench mark yet I'm sure football was around almost 100 years before the overpaid, overhyped league.

Using the religion thing,maybe pre-1992 was the Old Testament and post 1992 Premierdonna League is the New Testament....got to agree with you though the hype via all the media (and not just from Sky alone) is akin to the stuff you can see on those religious channels

Praise the lord for the Premier League....Hallelujah  

Makes me feel sick.

I hate football so much I constantly watch it and post on a football related messageboard.

Quoted from Abdul19

I hate football so much I constantly watch it and post on a football related messageboard.

Stockholm syndrome

Does my head in when some premier league fans from Grimsby says "Grimsby's excrement!" My reply has been and always will be this, "yeh, excrement compared to Man U, but let's face facts Man U have millions, town only have thousands. Massive difference." Grimsby back in the days before million pound players came along, town could compete financially as players use to cost thousands to buy, instead of millions. And let's not forget town also use to be a little boom town with the fishing industry. The best players cost well too much these days, so what chance to clubs who don't have that kind of money, have?

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Does my head in when some premier league fans from Grimsby says "Grimsby's excrement!" My reply has been and always will be this, "yeh, excrement compared to Man U, but let's face facts Man U have millions, town only have thousands. Massive difference." Grimsby back in the days before million pound players came along, town could compete financially as players use to cost thousands to buy, instead of millions. And let's not forget town also use to be a little boom town with the fishing industry. The best players cost well too much these days, so what chance to clubs who don't have that kind of money, have?

The comeback for all Man Utd fans is always.........just remind me again who holds the record attendance for a game at your home stadium?

Quoted from moosey_club

The comeback for all Man Utd fans is always.........just remind me again who holds the record attendance for a game at your home stadium?

Haha yeh but they always start bragging about what they have won and how many times they'd won it lol.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Does my head in when some premier league fans from Grimsby says "Grimsby's excrement!" My reply has been and always will be this, "yeh, excrement compared to Man U, but let's face facts Man U have millions, town only have thousands. Massive difference."

Man U wouldn't have those millions if it wasn't for plastics like them, and clubs like Town would be much better off.

This isn't a dig at man Utd 'fans' as such but I do find that they seem to justify why they support a team...if you have to justify why you support a team and get massively defensive about it means you probably shouldn't support that team.

As for the record attendance thing at old Trafford...I once had a moronic Utd fan argue the toss with me until he decided to to try and prove himself right by googling it only to find he was wrong all along...silly girl private

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Haha yeh but they always start bragging about what they have won and how many times they'd won it lol.

i usually answer that one with..... well how many times have Man Utd won the Lincs Cup?  

Quoted from moosey_club

Just remind me again who holds the record attendance for a game at your home stadium?

My plastic mates are wise to that comeback now, and respond with 'yes, but that was in the days before all seater stadiums'.

Quoted from moosey_club

i usually answer that one with..... well how many times have Man Utd won the Lincs Cup?  

Haha I like that one.

I wasn't really having a dig at Man U fans, but they are the main ones for getting on their high horses. Probally because they (Man U fans) are everywhere.

Quoted from wigworld

My plastic mates are wise to that comeback now, and respond with 'yes, but that was in the days before all seater stadiums'.

They had 80 yrs to set a higher one, 1910 - 1990's before it went all seater.

The backlash against modern football is clearly gathering pace and you'll struggle to hear a positive word said for the off-pitch aspects of any football club nowadays. But where do we go from here?

Majority Fan Ownership is, for me, the only option - at our level at least. As someone said today - "face it, your football clubs don't love you", so if you're fed up of being treated like a walking cash machine and taken for granted, never being listened to, not enjoying your "matchday experience", then its time to get off your bottom and make your voice heard. It amazes me that so few people have joined The Trust when they're trying to help the fans form some form of collective voice.

Moaning is all well and good, but are people really as bothered as they like to make out? How many out there are willing to put their money where their mouths are? How many would boycott their clubs for good, like a few Cardiff fans I know, if they were being held to ransom? How many would cancel their sky contracts? How many would stand up and voice their opinions given the opportunity? How many are prepared to overlook short-term success on the pitch in favour of a sustainable future off it?

Oh yes, if Grimsby Town were in the Premier League, with a 50k stadium and a horde of foreign fans we'd all hate it. How dare they put their money into our town is what we'd think, this good football we're being served up is nothing on urine stained terraces in places like Alfreton. I'd beg for a return to these simple days, where it costs 18 pounds to get into Blundell Park, as opposed to the 30 pounds i've recently spent on going to see Fulham (who I don't support but was merely nearby)

Long term wise, I'm only interested in GTFC.

Any other football, for me, is short term entertainment. The last 4 games I've watched on Sky have all been absolutely superb (and that's my own opinion, not because evil Rupert brainwashed me or something blah blah etc etc). If most games I watch interest me, then I'll keep watching.

Quoted from WetFlannel

Oh yes, if Grimsby Town were in the Premier League, with a 50k stadium and a horde of foreign fans we'd all hate it. How dare they put their money into our town is what we'd think, this good football we're being served up is nothing on urine stained terraces in places like Alfreton. I'd beg for a return to these simple days, where it costs 18 pounds to get into Blundell Park, as opposed to the 30 pounds i've recently spent on going to see Fulham (who I don't support but was merely nearby)

It's not the case of we wouldn't like it, of course we would, who wouldn't? But let's face it, it is getting daft. How can clubs like Grimsby compete against teams like Man U? Don't say "play better football" or "win more games" etc etc. Money is everything, but should it be everything when it comes to sports? No is my answer. Every club in the game should be able to compete and in order to keep the COMPETITION there should limits and rules, such as cost of players, players wages, etc etc which are NOT in place. Which means it isn't really much of a COMPETITION.

Comparing a 5th division club with a 1st division club is as pointless now as it was 20/50/1000 years ago.

Quoted from Abdul19

Comparing a 5th division club with a 1st division club is as pointless now as it was 20/50/1000 years ago.

Not really. Back when town was in division 4 we could financially compete with teams in top flight. Why? Because the best players use to cost thousands, something most clubs could afford, now the best players cost millions something limited clubs can afford. FACT.

We've never been able to financially compete with Man United since like post war, and why should we? They've always had a naturally bigger support so get more money. People say things like that as if the likes of Grimsby would continuously break British transfer records before 1992. There's always been a hierarchy, it's just now more profound.

Quoted from WetFlannel

We've never been able to financially compete with Man United since like post war, and why should we? They've always had a naturally bigger support so get more money. People say things like that as if the likes of Grimsby would continuously break British transfer records before 1992. There's always been a hierarchy, it's just now more profound.

Doubt it was that far back, I believe we haven't been able to since the 70s with likes of Man U anyway and financially. And I ain't saying Grimsby was ever a big club, we haven't been a big club since post war (I don't think). I'm just pointing out that players cost well too much now, and players were once upon a time more affordable and back in that time football was more of a competition. It's hardly a competition now, the teams with the most money wins the league, because they can afford the best players.

Utd fans tend to have very few friends, so they support them to improve their chances of making a friend or two. This is not me talking shite, this is fact!

Take a look at Utd fans you know. It will be plain to see that many are still virgins or may have had a couple of shags at best.

At school they tended to be the ones that were really smelly or the ones that no one would hang around because they could start a fight with their own personality.

Buying a Utd shirt meant all of a sudden they could become 'popular'

Quoted from WetFlannel

Oh yes, if Grimsby Town were in the Premier League, with a 50k stadium and a horde of foreign fans we'd all hate it. How dare they put their money into our town is what we'd think, this good football we're being served up is nothing on urine stained terraces in places like Alfreton. I'd beg for a return to these simple days, where it costs 18 pounds to get into Blundell Park, as opposed to the 30 pounds i've recently spent on going to see Fulham (who I don't support but was merely nearby)

If it was the case that Town were dining at the top table, it still wouldn't make it right.

If the vast wealth in the game was distributed more fairly, then the Alfretons of this world wouldn't be playing in urine stained stadiums and it wouldn't be £30/40/50 pounds to watch football at any level.

The German league is an example of how it can be and from what i have seen of their teams in Europe and on a national stage, the quality of their football pisses on the Premier League. Despite their vast wealth, Man City were made to look very ordinary by Dortmund.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Not really. Back when town was in division 4 we could financially compete with teams in top flight.

Could we?

The whole things copulated...just admit it. Even at our level there are teams who simply don't compete, teams that even if they won the league wouldn't be allowed in the league and so on...what is the point playing in a competition if you can't win the prize and unfortunately this is the problem in the premier league, the sad thing is that only 4-6 teams compete and only 4 are probably ever going to win it...I know a Fulham fan who actually said the best season and most enjoyable he's had whilst they've been up there is the season they only just stayed up because for once there was something to play for...

You are always going to get teams with higher budgets etc purely because of fan base etc but also, and call me cynical or whatever you like, they succeed because the people running the game/league wan them too. The press, the pseudo big wigs might say it is good when Wigan have a good start or QPR beat a top side but truthfully Scudamore et al would flipping hate it if suddenly a club like Wigan started steamrollering everyone and could actually win the league...simply because its very hard to sell a club like Wigan to the far east, America etc...

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Not really. Back when town was in division 4 we could financially compete with teams in top flight. Why? Because the best players use to cost thousands, something most clubs could afford, now the best players cost millions something limited clubs can afford. FACT.

We've never been able to compete financially with Man U or any of the other big clubs.

Large majority of people back in 1992 ignored the warnings and the fears of all those who raised them have now been realised. In my opinion the Premier League and Sky has ruined football as we used to know it.
Eventually though people of a certain age will die off and the Premiership generation of fans will only have known it.

Clubs getting richer, fans paying more, players getting richer, promising young players hoovered up by the big clubs, every kick of the ball and decision scrutinised to death....there is no joy in that anymore.

Quoted from aldi_01

You are always going to get teams with higher budgets etc purely because of fan base etc but also, and call me cynical or whatever you like, they succeed because the people running the game/league wan them too. The press, the pseudo big wigs might say it is good when Wigan have a good start or QPR beat a top side but truthfully Scudamore et al would flipping hate it if suddenly a club like Wigan started steamrollering everyone and could actually win the league...simply because its very hard to sell a club like Wigan to the far east, America etc...

Elaborate on that one for us?

There is too much money in the top flight but can anybody who watched the two games on Sunday claim they weren't provided with top class entertainment? Lots of people clamouring for financial responsibility but how will those same people react if come January, Fenty announces that due to us operating (once again) way beyond our means that we won't be signing Pond, Nielsen, Hannah or anybody else and will instead be making do with youngsters already at the club? If what people want is financial fair play then great, I'd agree with that. If anybody thinks that won't leave Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal battling it out at the top or that it'll enable Town to compete financially with teams in the top flight (FFS) then they're going to be disappointed.

There are clearly some problems in football but there's also some proper drama queens on this thread.

You can tell who supports a premier league club though, well Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool anyway, by the way they are too quick to defend any aguement about the premier league. FACT! Most clubs when players cost thousands, could compete financially and buy the descent players. Now only limited clubs can comopete financially because players now cost millions. Are you really so niave to argue with that, when it is a well known fact? Or are you saying players have always cost millions to buy? Think you have been blinded by the premier league. Man U, Chelsea etc haven't always been at tthe top and the big clubs they are today, are you forgetting, Stockport, Sheffields, Notts forest, Derby, Leeds, Charlton, etc etc. Some seem to be very short sighted.

Money has made a big competition into a small competition. Meaning any club could of won a league once upon a time, now only the rich clubs stand a chance. As for the premier league we know it will be between about 4 clubs out of 20, every season the same old story.

Stockport? When were they a big club?

What are you actually proposing should happen Gary?

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

Stockport? When were they a big club?

What are you actually proposing should happen Gary?

Stockport county one of the oldest football clubs, probally going back when the football league was first formed. I am relying on my excrement memory of something I've read of which I can not find at present. But anyway I ain't got a clue of what should happen. All I am pointing is football is just football anymore it's a bissiness, pretty obvious as we all know it. But it's ruined the game and there isn't enough care from anyone for any club that isn't rich and in premier league.

I'd like to see the premier league gone, and just have championship and division 1-4. Don't see the point in the premier league, championship on the other hand is what top flight should be, champions of the football league.

They may as well seperate the premier league from the football league because it's a league for rich clubs. Do it like rughby, league and union style.

I might not make much sence as I ain't a clever male private, but I still have an opinion. And I am still learning.  

I personally can't see anything changing any time soon.

Quoted from aldi_01

The whole things copulated...just admit it. Even at our level there are teams who simply don't compete, teams that even if they won the league wouldn't be allowed in the league and so on

Except that it's easier now to be promoted to the football league than it ever has been.

The divide has definitely increased massively in the past twenty years which has to be a bad thing. I also agree that more should be done to stop clubs spending way beyond their means but that means clubs at all levels including our own and including us as a club. The truth is that clubs in the top divisions will usually attract bigger crowds, better players etc and success usually breeds more success. Huge money poured in through Sky and the majority goes to the top - but then who has a Sky subscription to watch Bristol City vs Hull rather than Chelsea vs Man Utd or Everton vs Liverpool. The biggest shame is that the huge money that came in through Sky hasn't worked its way to grass roots facilities and has instead ended up paying vastly inflated salaries. Man Utd, Liverpool etc are massively bigger clubs than us and have been since a long time before Sky got involved.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

They may as well seperate the premier league from the football league because it's a league for rich clubs. Do it like rughby, league and union style.

But they're 2 different sports!

How can you, on the one hand, want more competition, but on the other, want the PL and FL separated?

Quoted from Abdul19

Except that it's easier now to be promoted to the football league than it ever has been.

Not meaning to seem funny, but how is it? Only 2 teams go up. Should be no exceptions and 3 teams go up just like the leagues above.

Unless there use to be just 1 team that went up at some point?

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Not meaning to seem funny, but how is it? Only 2 teams go up. Should be no exceptions and 3 teams go up just like the leagues above.

Unless there use to be just 1 team that went up at some point?

The Re-election system of the Football League, in use until 1986, was a process where the worst placed clubs of the league had to reapply for their place in the league while non-league clubs could apply for a league place. It was the only way for a non-league side to enter the football league until direct promotion and relegation were introduced from the 1986–87 season onwards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-election_(Football_League)

It's only been two promotion spots for the past 5 years or so hasn't it? Don't remember any Town fans losing any sleep over that when we were in the Championship or League 1 or the 2nd Division or whatever we're calling it.

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

The divide has definitely increased massively in the past twenty years which has to be a bad thing. I also agree that more should be done to stop clubs spending way beyond their means but that means clubs at all levels including our own and including us as a club. The truth is that clubs in the top divisions will usually attract bigger crowds, better players etc and success usually breeds more success. Huge money poured in through Sky and the majority goes to the top - but then who has a Sky subscription to watch Bristol City vs Hull rather than Chelsea vs Man Utd or Everton vs Liverpool. The biggest shame is that the huge money that came in through Sky hasn't worked its way to grass roots facilities and has instead ended up paying vastly inflated salaries. Man Utd, Liverpool etc are massively bigger clubs than us and have been since a long time before Sky got involved.

Definitely this.

Quoted from Abdul19

But they're 2 different sports!

How can you, on the one hand, want more competition, but on the other, want the PL and FL separated?

I think it would be more of a competition if they was seperated. Let's face it Burnley won't ever be in with a chance of winning the premier league, too much money involved but they do stand a chance of winning the championship. Just chose Burnley as an example but more than 4-6 clubs would in with a chance of winning the championship, where there's the premier league where only 4-6 clubs will be in with the chance (more likely to be 4 clubs really). More than 6 is better than just the same old 4-6 clubs, isn't it?

It's quite a complicated debate. Hard not to contradict.

Quoted from psgmariner

The Re-election system of the Football League, in use until 1986, was a process where the worst placed clubs of the league had to reapply for their place in the league while non-league clubs could apply for a league place. It was the only way for a non-league side to enter the football league until direct promotion and relegation were introduced from the 1986–87 season onwards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-election_(Football_League)

Oh yes of course. Can't believe I forgot that.    

I am going to leave this debate to the more intelligent. My head hurts.  

Quoted from Gary Haddock

I think it would be more of a competition if they was seperated. Let's face it Burnley won't ever be in with a chance of winning the premier league, too much money involved but they do stand a chance of winning the championship. Just chose Burnley as an example but more than 4-6 clubs would in with a chance of winning the championship, where there's the premier league where only 4-6 clubs will be in with the chance (more likely to be 4 clubs really). More than 6 is better than just the same old 4-6 clubs, isn't it?

It's quite a complicated debate. Hard not to contradict.

But what would be the point in winning the Championship if you didn't get promoted to the Premier League? As it is, the Championship winners are just that, and they're promoted. To only give half that prize would hardly make it more worthwhile, it'd do the opposite.

And at least football has this open promotion/relegation system, unlike Super League.

Makes my fúcking blood boil.
There is so much money in football but is so top heavy. The paying public would obviously rather see Man United vs Chelsea  rather than Stevenage vs Yeovil but would it harm showing a few games each week from a lower divisons. To be fair Sky has improved as you occasionally see League 1 and 2 games on tv now but its still a rarity and fair play to ITV as im sure i saw the braintree vs tranmere? game is on there on sunday.
Still its not really good enough, how teams like Man City,Manure, Chelski etc. Who all have millions get extra due to this coverage whilst lower league team struggle to make ends meat and to make things even worst they all run into millions pound of debt even with sugar daddies at the helm and millions coming in through tv. Higher level football needs a serious reality check, the sooner a big club runs into serious financial trouble the better for the english game. Obviously its not just the higher division teams that are spending money they simply have but it happens at a much larger scale up there.

Quoted from Abdul19

But what would be the point in winning the Championship if you didn't get promoted to the Premier League? As it is, the Championship winners are just that, and they're promoted. To only give half that prize would hardly make it more worthwhile, it'd do the opposite.

And at least football has this open promotion/relegation system, unlike Super League.

Same could be said for premier league, there is no promotion from there. Champions league, that's for the top flight of the football league so that would go to championship along with europa league and well acording to premier league fans the FA cup and League cup are micky mouse cups so they wouldn't miss them. Let them have their big money bolloxed football, we'll have the football league and propper football (well of much as football we can sve anyway). I am sure the premier league will invent another european cup for rich european clubs.

My opinions are based on me being annoyed by fans expecting too much from a club that has little in funds. These fans are influenced by the premier league clubs and their spending habbits. I mean what do they expect from a club with limited funds? Maybe if these so called football fans started supporting their local club and put their money into the club then their local club would have more funds to play with and could end up like one of these bigs clubs.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Same could be said for premier league, there is no promotion from there. Champions league, that's for the top flight of the football league so that would go to championship along with europa league and well acording to premier league fans the FA cup and League cup are micky mouse cups so they wouldn't miss them. Let them have their big money bolloxed football, we'll have the football league and propper football (well of much as football we can sve anyway). I am sure the premier league will invent another european cup for rich european clubs.

My opinions are based on me being annoyed by fans expecting too much from a club that has little in funds. These fans are influenced by the premier league clubs and their spending habbits. I mean what do they expect from a club with limited funds? Maybe if these so called football fans started supporting their local club and put their money into the club then their local club would have more funds to play with and could end up like one of these bigs clubs.

Yes but if you win it you are recognised as the best team in the country in that season. If you had a system where you separated the Premier League from the rest of the FL, even if you won the championship you wouldn't be the best team in the country and you'd not get promotion for doing it, making it kind of pointless.

I reckon us morons who support excrement teams have more fun on match days than those spoilt glory hunters who support the big teams. I went to Forest Green with the mighty mighty Imps a few weeks ago, we had around 100 people there, maybe a bit more, and our performance was the worst you can ever imagine seeing, but despite all that, it was a carnival atmosphere in the stands amongst the faithful. They never seem to have fun supporting the big teams, its all expectation and if they aren't 3-0 up at half time, the boos ring out and everyone is moaning like mad.

Teams like ours generally have something to fight for, be it promotion to the league setup, a run in the cup etcetc, but half the teams in the premierleague just exist. No fun, no hope, no excitement, nothing. Living to die rather than dying to live.

Give me the Lincolnshite Clasico over Fulham vs Sunderland any day of the week, intercourse the Premier League.

UTI

Quoted from ALLENTOWN1876

I reckon us morons who support excrement teams have more fun on match days than those spoilt glory hunters who support the big teams. I went to Forest Green with the mighty mighty Imps a few weeks ago, we had around 100 people there, maybe a bit more, and our performance was the worst you can ever imagine seeing, but despite all that, it was a carnival atmosphere in the stands amongst the faithful. They never seem to have fun supporting the big teams, its all expectation and if they aren't 3-0 up at half time, the boos ring out and everyone is moaning like mad.

Teams like ours generally have something to fight for, be it promotion to the league setup, a run in the cup etcetc, but half the teams in the premierleague just exist. No fun, no hope, no excitement, nothing. Living to die rather than dying to live.

Give me the Lincolnshite Clasico over Fulham vs Sunderland any day of the week, intercourse the Premier League.

UTI

Well said. But UTM!  

Quoted from mariner91

Yes but if you win it you are recognised as the best team in the country in that season. If you had a system where you separated the Premier League from the rest of the FL, even if you won the championship you wouldn't be the best team in the country and you'd not get promotion for doing it, making it kind of pointless.

An answer for you in bold. Premier league aren't the best teams, they're just richer. The premier league is shite, "Who's going to win it this season?" The usual, Man u, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. BORING! If I supported those team then yeh of course it be different, but I don't support them and never will. And I know Grimsby will never be in with a chance of being up there unless some multi millionaire or billionaire buys the club and invests millions into it. So I'm happy fighting for what ever we can get (hopefully promotion this season). As the (g)imp fan quite well put it, "intercourse the premier league!" UTM.

The premier league teams are better, that is obvious but one of the reasons they are bigger is money. Again though it is just a reflection of society...what about the tiny computer software companies competing against the likes of apple and Microsoft etc, do they always bleat on about how it's unfair that apple spend more cash on research alone than most companies will ever make in a life time...

It's all wrong and the game is slowly dying but as already pointed out we will all keep supporting our teams and enjoy our random away days throughout the winter...let the plastics have their boring league and spend all their time taking flipping photos at games rather than watching it...

So we're all in agreement that some teams are better than Town but only because they're rich and successful.

As for the romance of following a lower league team, I remember going up to Hartlepool on a cold miserable Friday night and we may have been beaten 8-1 but with the camaraderie of my fellow fans, the 'carnival atmosphere' that they generated and the feel that it was proper football that really mattered it was still absolutely flipping dreadful.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

An answer for you in bold. Premier league aren't the best teams, they're just richer. The premier league is shite, "Who's going to win it this season?" The usual, Man u, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. BORING! If I supported those team then yeh of course it be different, but I don't support them and never will. And I know Grimsby will never be in with a chance of being up there unless some multi millionaire or billionaire buys the club and invests millions into it. So I'm happy fighting for what ever we can get (hopefully promotion this season). As the (g)imp fan quite well put it, "intercourse the premier league!" UTM.

Are you being serious? I will agree that part of the reason they are better is that they're richer. But how can you possibly claim they are not the best teams? Would Cardiff be likely to beat Chelsea if they played each other tonight? Would they heck.

I remember the disscusions when the idea of the premier
league was first voiced. I maintained at the time that it
would make the rich richer and the poor poorer and be
a bad thing for football in general. I also said it would
be the death of smaller clubs and kill football as we knew it.

I hate to say over 20 years later that my words at the time
are becoming reality.  

The old saying of I told you so comes to mind.

The masses would say that the Premier League has been a huge success.

Better facilities for fans. Even at our level we visit many grounds who's facilities are much better than they were 20/30/40 years ago. Sports science and training facilities have improved beyond recognition.

The biggest downside for me is the money that leaves the game in players & agents pockets. I know it is difficult (and too late) to enforce a salary cap but nobody should be earning £100k+ per week. A top player should be on £10k per week tops imo

Quoted from mariner91

Would Cardiff be likely to beat Chelsea if they played each other tonight? .

Yes.

FA cup and league cup proves every season that the premier league clubs can be beaten.  

...not to forget the adverse effect that the Premiership has had on the development opportunities  of young English players -- look at the state of our national first XI.


Interesting that ultra-capitalist USA has a 'socialist' approach to keeping its major sporting leagues more competitive and sharing the money around more evenly (albeit only at the top levels).   The worst team from last season's NFL or NBA has first dibs on the best players from the new season's draft of up and coming players.

They regulate in some semblence of fairness, for the sake of competition.     Our top clubs took Murdoch's shilling and said 'sod the minnows'.    Hard to love any of the diving, poncing, partying bunch.

Quoted from BIGChris

the money that leaves the game in players & agents pockets. I know it is difficult (and too late) to enforce a salary cap but nobody should be earning £100k+ per week. A top player should be on £10k per week tops imo

I know what you mean and I definitely agree, but with that many professional clubs (110 or so?) the gulf in pay between those at the bottom and those at the top would be tiny.I'm not in any way saying players in the premiership deserve £300,000 per week. No one deserves £300,000 per week- very few people deserve £300,000 per year. But if those at the very top of the game earn £10,000 per week and those at the very bottom - like our players now - earn about £1,000 a week, it's hardly representative of the higher calibre they've attained.

As an arbitrary figure, I'd say £100,000 per year at the very top of the game is about what I'd expect to be reasonable. Roughly what a very good CEO in a good business should earn. Those at the bottom would be on minimum wage. A little bit like that occasionally mooted idea that the highest earner in a company should earn no more than 10 times that of the lowest.

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Yes.

FA cup and league cup proves every season that the premier league clubs can be beaten.  

Yeah which is why we regularly have the FA cup final and League cup final contested between two championship clubs because they're just as good as the premier league teams...

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

So we're all in agreement that some teams are better than Town but only because they're rich and successful.

As for the romance of following a lower league team, I remember going up to Hartlepool on a cold miserable Friday night and we may have been beaten 8-1 but with the camaraderie of my fellow fans, the 'carnival atmosphere' that they generated and the feel that it was proper football that really mattered it was still absolutely flipping dreadful.

I was at that game and you are right, it was flipping miserable. Just about the worst experience i have had following Town and it was so cold that i didn't thaw out 'til about half way home.



I neither want nor expect us to compete with Premier League sides. I just think, also in life in general, the wealth should be more fairly distributed and old established clubs not left to go to the wall for the sake of about a weeks wages for some players.

Quoted from mariner91

Yeah which is why we regularly have the FA cup final and League cup final contested between two championship clubs because they're just as good as the premier league teams...

Forgot Liverpool V Cardiff league cup final last season?

Quoted from Gary Haddock

Forgot Liverpool V Cardiff league cup final last season?

[img]http://robinbrown.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/facepalm-500x4001.jpg[/img]

Quoted from nickmariners

...not to forget the adverse effect that the Premiership has had on the development opportunities  of young English players -- look at the state of our national first XI.

I seem to recall our national team being embarrassed just before the Premier League started too.