Letter in the NLP

There's a letter in today's  issue regarding the automatic promotion to the football league being stopped, and I think the sender has got this 100% spot on.
He starts by saying any club that cannot average more than 2500 fans should not be in the football league, and that teams like Grimsby, luton, and stockport, should replace the dagenhams, morecombe, Barnet, etc, staight away, with future promotion depending on a top two finish and sufficient support.

He goes on to say, and this is the part that I really agree with, is that it would be a travesty if the likes of Bradford, Plymouth, Northampton, end up in the conference whilst the smaller clubs remain, including possibly fleetwood, southport, etc, attracting less than 1500 crowds in div2.

He finishes by saying he wants the conference to be again what it was originally intended for, the place for the top non league clubs and those who aspire to be.

Anyone care to disagree?

The whole point of sport in my opinion is that promotion and relegation is only decided on the pitch. i.e. you get the most points you win the league and thus promotion.

Only on the grounds of your stadia not being fit for purpose should promotion be denied

Whilst good support is important, what do you do in a situation like last season when Crawley walked the league? Ultimately football is a result based business, and promotion etc should be based on that alone.

I totally disagree with the letter. What would be the incentive for teams to get promoted from non-league, and why should teams like Town, Luton, Bradford and Plymouth have an automatic right to be in the Football League just because they used to be good, or have a good history. It's what you are doing now that is the most important thing in football.

Quoted from BlackBoots

The whole point of sport in my opinion is that promotion and relegation is only decided on the pitch. i.e. you get the most points you win the league and thus promotion.

Only on the grounds of your stadia not being fit for purpose should promotion be denied

So on that basis you would be quite happy for moneymen bankrolling a club like say Whitby town or north ferriby united etc, as a hobbie, clubs that couldn't dream of crowds over 1000, and then going on to replace proud traditional league clubs?
It would just be wrong for me, like I said there needs to be a line drawn.

Next thing is you'll have the Premier League clubs not wanting smaller teams in their little cartel. Football must always be a meritocracy, otherwise it just becomes a contrived gameshow. NFL anyone? thought not.

Quoted from 2578

So on that basis you would be quite happy for moneymen bankrolling a club like say Whitby town or north ferriby united etc, as a hobbie, clubs that couldn't dream of crowds over 1000, and then going on to replace proud traditional league clubs?
It would just be wrong for me, like I said there needs to be a line drawn.

If the 'proud traditional club' deserves to be relegated based on performance, and Whitby Town or any club deserve to get promoted through performance then yes. The amount of money being put into a club is irrelevant, if they have more points than every team in their league they deserve to go up.

Quoted from codhead91

Whilst good support is important, what do you do in a situation like last season when Crawley walked the league? Ultimately football is a result based business, and promotion etc should be based on that alone.

By setting a 2500 average minimum Crawley would then have has to give insentives to the local public to draw them in and raise the gate, reduced ticket prices etc, after all it's not like they couldn't afford to.

Would you agree with this if we were in the Championship averaging 5500 about 10000 less than most clubs up there?

Quoted from BlackBoots

The whole point of sport in my opinion is that promotion and relegation is only decided on the pitch. i.e. you get the most points you win the league and thus promotion.

Only on the grounds of your stadia not being fit for purpose should promotion be denied

TOTALLY AGREE. If we never get out of this league it's our own fault. Hats off to the likes of Accrington, Barnet even Scunthorpe who have poor attendances and low wages but still do well and stay in the league.

Quoted from 2578

By setting a 2500 average minimum Crawley would then have has to give insentives to the local public to draw them in and raise the gate, reduced ticket prices etc, after all it's not like they couldn't afford to.

So does that mean, based on your logic, that the likes of Wigan, Swansea etc. shouldn't be in the Premier League because they don't get the same attendance figures as United, Arsenal, Newcastle etc.?! Preventing a team from going up because of their fan base is ridiculous. As LH said, would you object to us not getting promoted to the Premier League because of our inevitably poor attendance figures compared to other teams in that division?

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

Next thing is you'll have the Premier League clubs not wanting smaller teams in their little cartel. Football must always be a meritocracy, otherwise it just becomes a contrived gameshow. NFL anyone? thought not.

As much as I'd love to see town in the premiership, it would be pretty embarrassing seeing 8000 in the premier league, they would rightly refuse entry in my opinion if we ever got promoted. We would tarnish a great product.

So to follow this argument to it's natural conclusion, only the team with the highest attendance can win the premier league and the highest in Europe can win the champions league? What a strange argument to be in favour of.

This letter (which I read), would represent the decline of football in this country.

Even if we would gain in the short-term.  Can you see us ever getting into the Championship on the same "crowd" criteria?

Looking at the standard of grounds is a different matter where there is a future risk to crowd safety.

Quoted from 2578

As much as I'd love to see town in the premiership, it would be pretty embarrassing seeing 8000 in the premier league, they would rightly refuse entry in my opinion if we ever got promoted. We would tarnish a great product.

Take issue with your comment great product the prem leaves me cold bunch of foreign celebrities who don't give a intercourse for the fans only the number of zeros on the payslip and the number of cars in the garage give me fl all the time

Obviously the teams with poor gates are doing something right - on and off the pitch, were as the teams with bigger gates are not good enough.

What is needed would be to increase the amount of automatic promotion places to 2 - 3 and one place decided via the playoffs.

Would be totally wrong to control who is in which divisions, it's abit like the Premiership becoming exclusive with no relegation places, even Alex Ferguson disagreed with the idea.

Remember when we was in the Championship, Trevor Francis the t*** moaning about going to likes of Grimsby when he was Birmingham manager, makes it all that better when you beat a bigger club.

Agree with if your not good enough then relegation is your fate but believe the way back should be easier 3up 3 down

Quoted from crusty ole pie

Take issue with your comment great product the prem leaves me cold bunch of foreign celebrities who don't give a intercourse for the fans only the number of zeros on the payslip and the number of cars in the garage give me fl all the time

i feel the same way but dont try and tell me you never watch MOTD?

Horrible idea.  Football would be so boring, depressing and predictable without the underdogs.

Quoted from Biccys

So to follow this argument to it's natural conclusion, only the team with the highest attendance can win the premier league and the highest in Europe can win the champions league? What a strange argument to be in favour of.

Bit of the mark there I  didn't imply that, My point is to be in the football league carries status and by allowing pub teams that only a few hundred people care about to replace traditional founder member clubs just seems wrong to me.

Some of those clubs that only attract a thousand or so spectators in the BSP might attract 3000+ if they got promoted to the football league - we've experienced ourselves how much success influences attendance.
Under the proposal in that letter, those clubs would never find out.

Quoted from LH

Would you agree with this if we were in the Championship averaging 5500 about 10000 less than most clubs up there?

The championship is still a division of the main leagues though isn't? my point is to be a league club you should have a type of status otherwise letting pub teams in just devalues it all.

Quoted from wigworld

Some of those clubs that only attract a thousand or so spectators in the BSP might attract 3000+ if they got promoted to the football league - we've experienced ourselves how much success influences attendance.
Under the proposal in that letter, those clubs would never find out.

You mean clubs like, accrington stanley, morecombe,barnet,dagenham & redbridge?

The letter sounds like a hilarious bit of trolling and anyone that agrees with it is a cretin.

Quoted from Abdul19

The letter sounds like a hilarious bit of trolling and anyone that agrees with it is a cretin.

Why the intercourse you calling me a cretin whilst you hide behind your computer curry breath? Pop in to William hill on Grimsby rd now and call me that I'm in a blue top.
Ffs what's wrong with people I start an honest debate and I get abuse?
I know id proberly be in a minority but that's what this forums for...
Like I said William hill.

Yeah fair point, the cretin bit was unnecessary.

It's a terrible idea though, the reasons why I think this have already been covered by others.

Quoted from 2578

As much as I'd love to see town in the premiership, it would be pretty embarrassing seeing 8000 in the premier league, they would rightly refuse entry in my opinion if we ever got promoted. We would tarnish a great product.

Which is precisely why I would want to see Town in the Premiership, sticking two fingers up at the lot of them , just as we did when we went to Wolves, WBA, Bolton, Leeds etc in the second tier. I'd not be in the slightest bit embarrassed unless we got there by cheating a la Pompey. I'd also expect us to get more fans through the door than Wigan do (capacity permitting of course). Try telling a Norwich or Blackpool fan they didn't deserve to be in the Premier League because they do not get as many fans as some of the 'big boys'. It's worth noting that 25 years ago, Everton and Sheff Weds were thought of as one of the big five, now they can only dream of dining at the top table.

Quoted from 2578

By setting a 2500 average minimum Crawley would then have has to give insentives to the local public to draw them in and raise the gate, reduced ticket prices etc, after all it's not like they couldn't afford to.

That would be Scumthorpe gone then, their lowest average was 1,800, you get my vote  

I don't agree with the letter in the NLP. I do, however, believe that more promotion places should be available to escape this league.

I personally do not know why four clubs can gain promotion from L2 but only two from the BSP. Why do three go down from the championship, four from L1 and only two from L2? Does anybody know? As I have wondered this for a while.

UTM

Quoted from 2578

There's a letter in today's  issue regarding the automatic promotion to the football league being stopped, and I think the sender has got this 100% spot on.
He starts by saying any club that cannot average more than 2500 fans should not be in the football league, and that teams like Grimsby, luton, and stockport, should replace the dagenhams, morecombe, Barnet, etc, staight away, with future promotion depending on a top two finish and sufficient support.

He goes on to say, and this is the part that I really agree with, is that it would be a travesty if the likes of Bradford, Plymouth, Northampton, end up in the conference whilst the smaller clubs remain, including possibly fleetwood, southport, etc, attracting less than 1500 crowds in div2.

He finishes by saying he wants the conference to be again what it was originally intended for, the place for the top non league clubs and those who aspire to be.

Anyone care to disagree?

The problem isn't promotion and relegation. The problem is that the FA, clubs and players have got their heads buried in the and regarding wages. If clubs were run properly with in their means clubs wouldn't go to the wall and the sporting hierarchy would naturally sort itself out.

Quoted from Paris Mariner

The problem isn't promotion and relegation. The problem is that the FA, clubs and players have got their heads buried in the and regarding wages. If clubs were run properly with in their means clubs wouldn't go to the wall and the sporting hierarchy would naturally sort itself out.

+1

Quoted from Paris Mariner

The problem isn't promotion and relegation. The problem is that the FA, clubs and players have got their heads buried in the and regarding wages. If clubs were run properly with in their means clubs wouldn't go to the wall and the sporting hierarchy would naturally sort itself out.

David Moyes has a few ideas regards this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17249760

I know he is talking about the EPL but the idea/principle could filter down the levels.

Quoted from 2578

i feel the same way but dont try and tell me you never watch MOTD?

Very rearly do I watch mod the program lost its appeal to me when they forgot there was something other then the prem I subscribe to sky more for the plastic scouse in my house but do admit to watching the Sunday tea time game but little else

Quoted from 2578

Bit of the mark there I  didn't imply that, My point is to be in the football league carries status and by allowing pub teams that only a few hundred people care about to replace traditional founder member clubs just seems wrong to me.

You mean the likes of Wigan , Chelmsford and Yeovil replacing teams like Bradford PA , Gateshead and Barrow ?

Does the criteria of quality of stadium still apply? I hope it does could you imagine the grounds like alferton Braintree and tamworth attracting large away followings on a regular basis

While I think the suggestion this letter appears to be making, from the summary posted here, is a horrendous one, it does touch on a point about league restructuring which has been in obvious need of consideration for some years now. When we were down at Nene Park in November, a Kettering fan said to us that, whereas they were a big non-league club not that long ago, all they can now hope to do is survive in the Conference each season. I think the same is true for all the clubs in the Conference who have not either recently dropped out of the Football League or are not being bankrolled like Fleetwood and Crawley.

In the short-term, a third promotion place would help to tackle the issue. In the longer term, however, we need to look at restructuring the leagues. Unfortunately, however, I suspect that will only happen if or when Premier League 2 is ever formed and the trickle-down effect from that is felt.

Quoted from rancido

You mean the likes of Wigan , Chelmsford and Yeovil replacing teams like Bradford PA , Gateshead and Barrow ?

You would honestly call wigan and yeovil pub teams? really?? and as for chelmsford they play in the conference south where they belong  

Quoted from 2578

You would honestly call wigan and yeovil pub teams? really?? and as for chelmsford they play in the conference south where they belong  

Every team should be where they are on merit. Attendances shouldn't even come into the equation

if memory serves me right town were saved from dropping out of the fl when we finished bottom of the old 4th division and were re-elected due to the fact that the top non league teams ground was not good enough.
i think promotion and relegation should be based purely on merit otherwise where is the incentive? and once we get out of this god awful league hopefully it wont concern us.

Didn't Wigan get sub 2k crowds 15 years ago?

Quoted from thedmariner

if memory serves me right town were saved from dropping out of the fl when we finished bottom of the old 4th division and were re-elected due to the fact that the top non league teams ground was not good enough.
i think promotion and relegation should be based purely on merit otherwise where is the incentive? and once we get out of this god awful league hopefully it wont concern us.

Town have never finished bottom of the league, scunny have and they escaped that way.  The season your talking about I believe we finished 2nd bottom and had to re-apply for election.

Quoted from codhead91

Ultimately football is a result based business, and promotion etc should be based on that alone.

Enough said.
The more I hear of this NLP paper the more I want to avoid it.

Quoted from Steve_gtfc

David Moyes has a few ideas regards this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17249760

I know he is talking about the EPL but the idea/principle could filter down the levels.

"There's no doubt the game has speeded up but I'm not sure that has made for better football. "

Think Moyes is right.
How do you slow the sodomist down though ?...

Quoted from thedmariner

if memory serves me right town were saved from dropping out of the fl when we finished bottom of the old 4th division and were re-elected due to the fact that the top non league teams ground was not good enough.
i

I think your memory is letting you down there.

Quoted from crusty ole pie

Does the criteria of quality of stadium still apply?

I think it applies to most leagues.

Quoted from 2578

There's a letter in today's  issue regarding the automatic promotion to the football league being stopped, and I think the sender has got this 100% spot on.
He starts by saying any club that cannot average more than 2500 fans should not be in the football league, and that teams like Grimsby, luton, and stockport, should replace the dagenhams, morecombe, Barnet, etc, staight away, with future promotion depending on a top two finish and sufficient support.

He goes on to say, and this is the part that I really agree with, is that it would be a travesty if the likes of Bradford, Plymouth, Northampton, end up in the conference whilst the smaller clubs remain, including possibly fleetwood, southport, etc, attracting less than 1500 crowds in div2.

He finishes by saying he wants the conference to be again what it was originally intended for, the place for the top non league clubs and those who aspire to be.

Anyone care to disagree?

Perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  Why not just sack off the football all together and just turn it into a league of attendances.  Or even better (for us), we could decide the league placings on alphabetical order - after all, that has as much bearing as which division a team should be in as attendances.   I couldn't tell you the attendances of any games at all this weekend, I could tell you a few scores though, that's because, as it should be football is results based.

All this talk on here about ours and other teams attendances is just embarrasing.  Especially laughing at Scunthorpe.  Here's the logic.  If Scunthorpe are two divisions above us with inferior crowds then that just makes us look even poorer in comparison as they're doing better than us with fewer resources.

You mention about being happy with a club being bankrolled to promotion - let's not forget that we're being bank rolled ourselves!

Quoted from 2578

There's a letter in today's  issue regarding the automatic promotion to the football league being stopped, and I think the sender has got this 100% spot on.
He starts by saying any club that cannot average more than 2500 fans should not be in the football league, and that teams like Grimsby, luton, and stockport, should replace the dagenhams, morecombe, Barnet, etc, staight away, with future promotion depending on a top two finish and sufficient support.

He goes on to say, and this is the part that I really agree with, is that it would be a travesty if the likes of Bradford, Plymouth, Northampton, end up in the conference whilst the smaller clubs remain, including possibly fleetwood, southport, etc, attracting less than 1500 crowds in div2.

He finishes by saying he wants the conference to be again what it was originally intended for, the place for the top non league clubs and those who aspire to be.

Anyone care to disagree?

Personally I think that is a pile of cack and if Town hadn't improved their performances from the start of the season, we probably wouldn't be averaging 2,500 crowds.

A wage cap based on a clubs gate receipts would be a fairer system.

Quoted from BrMarin

A wage cap based on a clubs gate receipts would be a fairer system.

I think that's in place which is why, I think, that Crawley are shedding all their high earners

it's based on income not gate receipts and saying that you can't go in the prem unless you get 75000 then excrement thread and lets remember were wigan were just over 30 years ago but none of you will no that

Quoted from salmon1620

it's based on income not gate receipts and saying that you can't go in the prem unless you get 75000 then excrement thread and lets remember were wigan were just over 30 years ago but none of you will no that

Applying to be part of the Scpttish League, that's where they were.

Quoted from 2578

You would honestly call wigan and yeovil pub teams? really?? and as for chelmsford they play in the conference south where they belong  

I meant to say Cheltenham ( having a senior moment ) .But as regards Wigan and Yeovil they were just semi-pro teams in the non-league scene many years ago.In fact they are examples of how non-league teams can achieve success. To suggest a return to another version of the " old pals act " as regards promotion is ridiculous. If the team is good enough then it gets promoted regardless of ground or fan base. The article in the NLP suggests that the likes of Accrington , Barnet and Hereford shouldn't be in the Football League because of small home attendances. If these clubs can survive ,financially , with their low gates then they must be doing something right business wise. The only thing I would change is three teams being promoted to the Football League Div 2 ; Champion , Runner-up and a play-off winner. What is needed is more encouragement for non-league clubs to aspire for promotion , not less.

Quoted from rancido

I meant to say Cheltenham ( having a senior moment ) .But as regards Wigan and Yeovil they were just semi-pro teams in the non-league scene many years ago.In fact they are examples of how non-league teams can achieve success. To suggest a return to another version of the " old pals act " as regards promotion is ridiculous. If the team is good enough then it gets promoted regardless of ground or fan base. The article in the NLP suggests that the likes of Accrington , Barnet and Hereford shouldn't be in the Football League because of small home attendances. If these clubs can survive ,financially , with their low gates then they must be doing something right business wise. The only thing I would change is three teams being promoted to the Football League Div 2 ; Champion , Runner-up and a play-off winner. WhatE is needed is more encouragement for non-league clubs to aspire for promotion , not less.

Yes you have made a fair point I suppose if you look at it historically  but I still carnt help but feel getting promoted to league status should mean playing in proper football stadiums again, as opposed to some of the ram shackle sheds I've seen over the past two seasons, it should also mean more visiting fans creating an overall better match experience as opposed to the 20 or odd Braintree fans that managed to turn up.
Don't get me wrong I've enjoyed the non league experience personally but how many town fans have come on here moaning about "this Micky mouse league" With lack of this lack of that, surely a Saturday afternoon fixture in div 2 against Hayes attracting with a crowd of 300 would do the league a disservice and downgrade it? You may as well combine the conference with league 2 and have to regional divisions, with div 1 being the next stand out league for promoted clubs that fit the criteria required..

The person who wrote that letter was from Devon.Wouldnt be a Plymouth supporter worried about relegation would it

football is about money you have or you dont just like the standed of players  you have  good players because you have money and with good players you get league football is it not but can team like fleetwood stay in  league long term ? and what if the gold goose  go bust

Quoted from 2578

So on that basis you would be quite happy for moneymen bankrolling a club like say Whitby town or north ferriby united etc, as a hobbie, clubs that couldn't dream of crowds over 1000, and then going on to replace proud traditional league clubs?
It would just be wrong for me, like I said there needs to be a line drawn.

And the big local news on transfer front is the signing of 2500 fans by North Ferriby United on loan until the end of the season from Hull City. It is hoped that this will be a decisive move in order to gain promotion even though they do sit 20 points off the playoffs with only 11 games left.