Wrexham striker Paul Mullin stirs up controversy

"Wrexham have banned striker Paul Mullin from wearing boots featuring an offensive slogan about the Conservative Party."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63385682

good on you paul, i like you now

Good lad Paul, the Wrexham statement is a big shame.

Their line about it being a Tory seat in the statement in particular seemed weird. i don't think Mullin was acting as if he represented the clubs views and i don't think people are dumb enough to think this was a football club making the statement rather than just an individual player? Totally unnecessary to make the statement and now it's blown up on social media rather than being yesterdays news.

Maybe he's not a cheating piece of s**t after all. This matter may need careful handling, he'll be o.k. as he has form with that doesn't he?

I’d never personally vote Tory and I think the Tory party themselves have proven why that is in bucket loads.

However, as a supposedly democratic nation, it doesn’t sit well with me how people who also don’t vote Tory choose to demonise those that do. How somebody else votes is completely up to them and to abuse somebody for doing so makes you worse than them IMO.

I’d go so far as to say people doing that are what pushed people towards voting for them in the first place.

Can’t let those boots on the field, it would be the start of everyone having some political/ offensive message on theirs

Politics should be kept out of football. Simple as that.

Imbecelic from their star player to irritate a fair percentage of his own fans, in a town that has a Conservative MP who are trying to get government funding for their new stand.

The main topic of conversation on their forum with fans for and against.

Keep political posturing out of football.

Surely not the “keep politics out of football” debate merely weeks before everyone has to have a poppy on their shirt?

The guy is a scouser and Liverpool fan - do you think he really gives a excrement about pandering to some local Tory councillor in a heavily deprived area, when the Conservatives covered up Hillsborough and tried to blame it on Liverpool fans instead? Think it's also in reference to a singer-songwriter from Liverpool.

The fans will get over it, think they probably care way more about Mullin banging them in than whatever political party they last voted for?

The club should've just had a word with him behind closed doors if they really had to, and cracked on rather than making that statement.

Quoted from fishboyUTM

Politics should be kept out of football. Simple as that.

Hmm...

I would happily remove all political elements from football- poppy on shirt, kneeling down, rainbow laces, political slogans. Sport should be about the sport.

Quite simply, people should be decent to one another, and if people aren’t decent, whether that’s racist, homophobic etc, then they should be dealt with robustly

Quoted from Les Brechin

I can see why some might be offended.... who could possibly condone the wearing of a boot with that on the side of it.  Mullin10 indeed 🤮

Don't get this idea of keeping politics out of sport.

Surely it's a good thing that politics are brought into the mainstream eyes?  Regardless of your political leanings, we're in our current situation largely because of political apathy (I'm not just talking about rolling out for a General Election) in the last god knows how many years.

Everyone should be aware of what's going on in this country.  If Paul Mullins' boots help raise the issue to more people, then I'm all for it.

If it really does offend you, probably just easy to look away and pretend you didn't see it.  

Quoted from sam gy

The guy is a scouser and Liverpool fan - do you think he really gives a excrement about pandering to some local Tory councillor .

No I don’t.
As a scouser I very much doubt he gives a sh1t about absolutely anything but himself.

The guy is a total bell-end !

If I were the Wrexham management I'd sell him on the cheap to someone like.....................err...................................Grimsby !

Let that be a lesson to you, you pr1ck.  

I don’t mind people having political messages, such as the poppy, LGBT stuff or intercourse the Tories, because, as someone said earlier, we’re a democratic nation. Sometimes we don’t act like it, but we’re supposed to be one. Plus, declared neutrality is in itself a very political act

One of the main ‘characters’ in the documentary wore a ‘intercourse the tories’ T-shirt so I’d imagine that only a small amount of Wrexham fans would be offended by this…

Keep politics out of football…wonder how many that chant that mantra did the same when nincompoop Johnson and old racist Farage were seen wearing club stuff or delivering their incoherent drivel at McMenemys?

Quoted from pontoonlew

I’d never personally vote Tory and I think the Tory party themselves have proven why that is in bucket loads.

However, as a supposedly democratic nation, it doesn’t sit well with me how people who also don’t vote Tory choose to demonise those that do. How somebody else votes is completely up to them and to abuse somebody for doing so makes you worse than them IMO.

I’d go so far as to say people doing that are what pushed people towards voting for them in the first place.

Nope, I don't mind anyone who voted Conservative in the past and realises they made a mistake or were hoodwinked, but absolutely intercourse anyone still planning on voting Tory. Most of them spent the last few years demonising Labour supporters as 'terrorist-sympathisers', or 'woke' or 'do-gooders', for the terrible crime of wanting a government who'd make plans to redistribute this country's vast wealth a bit more fairly.

Sadly, it is impossible to ‘keep politics out of football’: the two are too heavily entwined. Brexit/ taxes/ political corruption, have all affected football one way or another in recent years!

However, certain professions require the people within them to be unbiased/politically neutral (at times), and due to the fact that most football club’s fan bases span the broad political spectrum, footballers need to be neutral as they cross the white line.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I’d never personally vote Tory and I think the Tory party themselves have proven why that is in bucket loads.

However, as a supposedly democratic nation, it doesn’t sit well with me how people who also don’t vote Tory choose to demonise those that do. How somebody else votes is completely up to them and to abuse somebody for doing so makes you worse than them IMO.

I’d go so far as to say people doing that are what pushed people towards voting for them in the first place.

Mullin isnt doing that though is he. That’s his view. I like him for it.

Quoted from Civvy at last

No I don’t.
As a scouser I very much doubt he gives a sh1t about absolutely anything but himself.

Sweeping generalisation there. Well done.

What would Lia Nicki say, anyone seen her?

As someone who can’t be arsed to vote nowadays,but I do wish someone who knows more then I could explain how the Labour Party distributes the country’s wealth more evenly then the Tory’s. 40 odd years ago being on the steelworks we went on a 3 month strike for a pay award, flying pickets and all that, then Mrs Thatcher cam3 to power and over the next few years brought in various industrial rules regarding calling strikes, picketing etc. my question is how man of these laws did Tony Blair rescind during his 10 years of office.

Quoted from chaos33

Mullin isnt doing that though is he. That’s his view. I like him for it.

But that is the point. You like him for it but a lot of Wrexham fans are angry with him either because they have different political views or more generally for the club making all the wrong headlines.

If the lino in their game tonight is a Tory and keeps flagging him offside he has only himself to blame!

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

But that is the point. You like him for it but a lot of Wrexham fans are angry with him either because they have different political views or more generally for the club making all the wrong headlines.

If the lino in their game tonight is a Tory and keeps flagging him offside he has only himself to blame!

Calling the leader of the Scottish Conservatives a "Tory illegitimate" while he was running the line didn't seem to do Montrose, who won 2-0, any harm on Saturday:

Quoted from blundellpork

I would happily remove all political elements from football- poppy on shirt, kneeling down, rainbow laces, political slogans. Sport should be about the sport.

Quite simply, people should be decent to one another, and if people aren’t decent, whether that’s racist, homophobic etc, then they should be dealt with robustly

Rainbow laces aren't a political statement more of an ethical one.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

But that is the point. You like him for it but a lot of Wrexham fans are angry with him either because they have different political views or more generally for the club making all the wrong headlines.

If the lino in their game tonight is a Tory and keeps flagging him offside he has only himself to blame!

Catch on…..The point is…Mullin isn’t ‘demonising anyone who votes Tory’, as was claimed, and it’s silly to say he is.
He’s stitched his own view into his boots. That’s it. If some people don’t like it…tough. If they’re offended, they should get over it and stop being a snowflake whilst calling other people snowflakes. Poverty, Suella Braverman, disgusting government officials who lie and cheat and steal,  and inequality and corruption etc etc offend me. Where do I send my list? You have your view. I’ll have mine. Mullin can have his.  He isn’t commenting on them. He isn’t saying ‘f@ck the Tories’ and anyone who votes for them is a (insert insult here). If Wrexham stop him and fine him etc….that’s their call. The point is ….Mullin has expressed his view on a political party. He’s entitled to. He hasn’t ‘demonised’ any poor souls who don’t agree.

Quoted from chaos33

Catch on…..The point is…Mullin isn’t ‘demonising anyone who votes Tory’, as was claimed, and it’s silly to say he is.
He’s stitched his own view into his boots. That’s it. If some people don’t like it…tough. If they’re offended, they should get over it and stop being a snowflake whilst calling other people snowflakes. Poverty, Suella Braverman, disgusting government officials who lie and cheat and steal,  and inequality and corruption etc etc offend me. Where do I send my list? You have your view. I’ll have mine. Mullin can have his.  He isn’t commenting on them. He isn’t saying ‘f@ck the Tories’ and anyone who votes for them is a (insert insult here). If Wrexham stop him and fine him etc….that’s their call. The point is ….Mullin has expressed his view on a political party. He’s entitled to. He hasn’t ‘demonised’ any poor souls who don’t agree.

He is obviously entitled to his view, but as Wrexham FC pointed out he is not entitled to have it on his workwear.

Think mullin should stick to footy
We beat them
Last year remember

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He is obviously entitled to his view, but as Wrexham FC pointed out he is not entitled to have it on his workwear.

Fair enough. Can’t argue. But he’s not ‘demonising’ anyone.

Quoted from ska face

Surely not the “keep politics out of football” debate merely weeks before everyone has to have a poppy on their shirt?

FFS

Quoted from chaos33

Fair enough. Can’t argue. But he’s not ‘demonising’ anyone.

I’m pretty sure if I worked in a bank or supermarket and had F**C the Tory’s on my uniform I would soon be out of a job

Quoted from grimps

I’m pretty sure if I worked in a bank or supermarket and had F**C the Tory’s on my uniform I would soon be out of a job

What a strange irrelevant thing to say , I presume neither you or Mr Mullin work in either establishment.  From what I have read someone who makes  designs for boots has customised s pair for him apparently based  on a chant that is de rigueur at the moment among Wrexham fans, they posted a pic on social media and waited for the inevitable publicity, perhaps with the judgement that around 75% of the voting population agree with the sentiment at the moment. He is free to have his own opinion and in this country is still free to express it whatever the snowflakes who complain about cancel culture and then want to cancel freedom of expression when they don't like what is being said think.
Those who are frightened of discussion about politics or in any field are frightened of democracy.  Perhaps politics should only be discussed through the pages of the daily mail or Guardian?

I think if you're going to have players do things as a club like wear rainbow laces, take the knee, and poppies on shirts to name a couple (not saying theirs anything wrong or right about any of these just picked a few out) you can't really moan if a player wearing his boots expressing a political view of their own. It's just a case of the club making a statement like they have separated their views from those of the player.

An option going forward is doing something similar to what the NFL does for instance. In the NFL they don't allow any sort of freedom for things like rainbow laces, taking the knee, etc instead they have a based week/month wear they all celebrate as franchises then it stops. However, they do have 1 week where every player wears custom boots to celebrate what they want, charity, political views, family, whatever they want. Maybe this is something the FA could look at as it seems obvious its the way the game will go.

Quoted from grimps

I’m pretty sure if I worked in a bank or supermarket and had F**C the Tory’s on my uniform I would soon be out of a job

And?

Not the point is it.

Quoted from pontoonlew

I’d never personally vote Tory and I think the Tory party themselves have proven why that is in bucket loads.

However, as a supposedly democratic nation, it doesn’t sit well with me how people who also don’t vote Tory choose to demonise those that do. How somebody else votes is completely up to them and to abuse somebody for doing so makes you worse than them IMO.

I’d go so far as to say people doing that are what pushed people towards voting for them in the first place.

So people vote Tory because of people point out the damage that the Tories and the people who mindlessly vote them in after years of failure have caused.   I think that is a very strange mind set. They have trashed the economy and looked after their own as they always do,  before the last election a working class bloke in Hartlepool pointed out without irony the increase in food banks as a massive Tory success,  come the next election they will demonize the opposition with their mates in the media and billionaire backers and the serfs will tug the forelock and fall in line again.
They are so poor they couldn't even find two decent candidates to stand for PM. If it was true that people vote for the demonized Corbyn would be PM  now,  he frightened those with power and got the full treatment

Quoted from codcheeky

What a strange irrelevant thing to say , I presume neither you or Mr Mullin work in either establishment.  From what I have read someone who makes  designs for boots has customised s pair for him apparently based  on a chant that is de rigueur at the moment among Wrexham fans, they posted a pic on social media and waited for the inevitable publicity, perhaps with the judgement that around 75% of the voting population agree with the sentiment at the moment. He is free to have his own opinion and in this country is still free to express it whatever the snowflakes who complain about cancel culture and then want to cancel freedom of expression when they don't like what is being said think.
Those who are frightened of discussion about politics or in any field are frightened of democracy.  Perhaps politics should only be discussed through the pages of the daily mail or Guardian?

So when I player wears  his Up The BNP boots or F**c a BLM Tee shirt you wouldn’t have any complaints ?

Players have the right to wear what they like outside of football and post comments as they please on social media , I believe politics should be kept off the pitch

He’s right fuckk the tories … this present shambles of Tory in house fighting as crashed the economy copulated the nhs and delivered brexit based on BS only 5 years ago our economy was 90% of germanys now it’s 70% and dwindling. We’ve become a laughing stock on the global stage it truly is a disgrace we’re nothing short of a banana republic just banging leaders in Willy nilly

Quoted from grimps

So when I player wears  his Up The BNP boots or F**c a BLM Tee shirt you wouldn’t have any complaints ?

Players have the right to wear what they like outside of football and post comments as they please on social media , I believe politics should be kept off the pitch

Jesus wept….

Completely brainless comparison. Those two statements are plainly, indisputably racist aren’t they, and every decent person would be appalled, including half of the team he played in, so you’re digging an ignorant hole here. And f*** has a K on the end.

Quoted from grimps

So when I player wears  his Up The BNP boots or F**c a BLM Tee shirt you wouldn’t have any complaints ?

Players have the right to wear what they like outside of football and post comments as they please on social media , I believe politics should be kept off the pitch

Well, the BNP has (had?) far right views, and “intercourse Black Lives Matter”?  I mean, wow. If you need it explaining why that is a problematic statement to say the very least, then there’s no hope.

So yeah, I’d have lots of complaints about both of them.

Quoted from grimps

So when I player wears  his Up The BNP boots or F**c a BLM Tee shirt you wouldn’t have any complaints ?

Players have the right to wear what they like outside of football and post comments as they please on social media , I believe politics should be kept off the pitch

It was off the pitch and if players want to wear any design of t shirt I would not object, as long as they are willing to face the consequences as Mullins clearly is.  There is quite a gap between what 75% of the population currently thinks and what less than 5% think in terms of how the fallout will be though. Look at Kanye West or whatever he is called now, his opinions are foolish in my opinion but he is entitled to hold them but it means sponsors are leaving him in droves. I don't think Mullin has those worries as the owner liked the social media post

So not only a cheating twit but he has excrement for brains as well.

Whatever his thoughts about the Tories to do that was flipping stupid.

intercourse all that  the manage is getting sacked in the morning  

Quoted from sam gy

Well, the BNP has (had?) far right views, and “intercourse Black Lives Matter”?  I mean, wow. If you need it explaining why that is a problematic statement to say the very least, then there’s no hope.

So yeah, I’d have lots of complaints about both of them.

So it is OK for someone with extreme views that you may be sympathetic to are OK but those you are not shouldn't be allowed?

Quoted from Gaffer58

As someone who can’t be arsed to vote nowadays,but I do wish someone who knows more then I could explain how the Labour Party distributes the country’s wealth more evenly then the Tory’s. 40 odd years ago being on the steelworks we went on a 3 month strike for a pay award, flying pickets and all that, then Mrs Thatcher cam3 to power and over the next few years brought in various industrial rules regarding calling strikes, picketing etc. my question is how man of these laws did Tony Blair rescind during his 10 years of office.

He didn't have time .He was far too busy making up lies that led us into a war which killed thousands and it's legacy is still being felt today

Quoted from arryarryarry

So it is OK for someone with extreme views that you may be sympathetic to are OK but those you are not shouldn't be allowed?

Jeez….It’s not that difficult.

You can have whatever view you want and anyone can have their view on your view. Saying ‘f**k the Tories’ is not, in my opinion, an ‘extreme view’. Anyone could share that view, or feel free to critique it. Having that view on your ‘work attire’ is, as it turns out, problematic for that individual. It’s not an argument though, it’s a sentiment.

As far as the views expressed further up the thread go, regarding the BNP and BLM - anyone is able to hold those views and I wish them good luck if they verbalise/publish them when it comes to defending, justifying or explaining them, as most if not all decent people will consider racism to be indisputably abhorrent. BUT….nobody needs to ‘cancel’ anyone. Nobody needs to ‘shut anyone down’, or say it shouldn’t be ‘allowed’. It’s not a complex point to grasp is it? If your views are offensive and extreme, ill informed, ignorant, prejudiced, bigoted, etc….crack on and justify them, same wiith any position anyone wants to take, but expect to be challenged when you make the supporting argument.

Quoted from grimps

So when I player wears  his Up The BNP boots or F**c a BLM Tee shirt you wouldn’t have any complaints ?

Players have the right to wear what they like outside of football and post comments as they please on social media , I believe politics should be kept off the pitch

What a strange and oddly incoherent response…I mean I’m well aware footballers are perceived to be a little on the dim side but I don’t think any would be wearing boots saying ‘up the BNP’…there’s many a reason why but it does little to progress the discussion really.

Like I said earlier, when old slobber chops racist and adulterer of the year were using BP to pedal their nonsense or our local love struck MP was handing GTFC merchandise to the second most incompetent PM ever, were those outraged at Mullin doing this equally as outraged?

The argument of keeping politics out of football is laughable too, the two are intricately intertwined and given our previous owner was a councillor doesn’t help the argument either.

For what it’s worth, I think it’s a daft thing to do but it’s done exactly what he no doubt intended. Regardless of having a Tory MP, I’d imagine, like large swathes of the country, the people of Wrexham and the vast majority of their fans will agree with Mullin…

Quoted from arryarryarry

So it is OK for someone with extreme views that you may be sympathetic to are OK but those you are not shouldn't be allowed?

If you think we wouldn't have gone  to war with Afghanistan and Iraq with the Tories in power you 're living in denial. There are only a few who called it out for the folly it was, chief of those was Corbyn and the lib dems to be fair which is why I lent them my support. Only for them to stitch us all up by getting into bed with Cameron's Tories

Quoted from codcheeky

If you think we wouldn't have gone  to war with Afghanistan and Iraq with the Tories in power you 're living in denial. There are only a few who called it out for the folly it was, chief of those was Corbyn and the lib dems to be fair which is why I lent them my support. Only for them to stitch us all up by getting into bed with Cameron's Tories

Don’t remember any tories calling out Blair…as you say, this obsession that folk have at saying things like ‘it’d be worse with labour’ or constantly saying the reason we went into Iraq and Afghanistan was purely a labour thing is delusion…the tories would’ve fallen over themselves to get involved…

I’d imagine that those who don’t see the point Mullins is making are the same who were oddly offended by some players taking the knee or the same idiots moaning about rainbow flags and the like…

Quoted from Norseman

He didn't have time .He was far too busy making up lies that led us into a war which killed thousands and it's legacy is still being felt today

And also released all the IRA scumbags too.

Quoted from 123614

And also released all the IRA scumbags too.

Which thankfully has led to over 20 years of peace, like it or not it was a war in N Ireland, and like always civilians bore the brunt from both sides, you have to make peace and move on. The Queen set the example meeting those responsible for her uncle’s death for the good of both countries, perhaps the most momentous thing she did in her 70 year reign.

Quoted from aldi_01

Don’t remember any tories calling out Blair…as you say, this obsession that folk have at saying things like ‘it’d be worse with labour’ or constantly saying the reason we went into Iraq and Afghanistan was purely a labour thing is delusion…the tories would’ve fallen over themselves to get involved…

I’d imagine that those who don’t see the point Mullins is making are the same who were oddly offended by some players taking the knee or the same idiots moaning about rainbow flags and the like…

146 of the 165 Tory MPs at the time voted for the motion. Most of the rest abstained. Over 50 Labour MPs voted against and Robin Cook resigned so he could be one of them.

Quoted from barralad

146 of the 165 Tory MPs at the time voted for the motion. Most of the rest abstained. Over 50 Labour MPs voted against and Robin Cook resigned so he could be one of them.

Which kinda proves my point…

Quoted from dapperz fun pub

He’s right fuckk the tories … this present shambles of Tory in house fighting as crashed the economy copulated the nhs and delivered brexit based on BS only 5 years ago our economy was 90% of germanys now it’s 70% and dwindling. We’ve become a laughing stock on the global stage it truly is a disgrace we’re nothing short of a banana republic just banging leaders in Willy nilly

There is a depressing irony about how the Tories came about their current claim to power.

Prior to Brexit, there was a very clear pattern to the complexion of the UK electorate. In effect, the less you earned the more likely you were to vote Labour, and the more you earned the more likely you were to vote Conservative. Nothing too surprising about that.

But that’s where Brexit turned the political landscape on hits head. Again, as a pretty strong general rule, the less you earned the more likely you were to vote leave and the more you earned, the more likely you wanted to remain.

That created an obvious juxtaposition, since it was the Tories, led by Boris Johnson and his book of lies, who were tasked with getting Brexit done. All of those lower-income Labour voters were suddenly voting Tory, not because they aligned with their broader values, but because Brexit was the prominent political issue at the time and they did, at least, broadly align on that.

What they didn’t see coming was a global pandemic and the war in Ukraine, which of course has economic ramifications much further reaching than Ukraine’s borders.

All of a sudden Brexit is a drop in the ocean of everyone’s problems, and we’re left with an utterly incompetent government making the worst of a bad situation.

The saddest thing is, it’s those historically Labour supporting Tory voters of 2019 that will suffer the most; too late now but a reminder of the importance of values by and sticking by them. Those Brexit era Tories were merely wolves in sheep’s clothing, and now they are simply showing themselves for what they truly are and truly were all along.

The absolute shysters.

Quoted from Poojah

There is a depressing irony about how the Tories came about their current claim to power.

Prior to Brexit, there was a very clear pattern to the complexion of the UK electorate. In effect, the less you earned the more likely you were to vote Labour, and the more you earned the more likely you were to vote Conservative. Nothing too surprising about that.

But that’s where Brexit turned the political landscape on hits head. Again, as a pretty strong general rule, the less you earned the more likely you were to vote leave and the more you earned, the more likely you wanted to remain.

That created an obvious juxtaposition, since it was the Tories, led by Boris Johnson and his book of lies, who were tasked with getting Brexit done. All of those lower-income Labour voters were suddenly voting Tory, not because they aligned with their broader values, but because Brexit was the prominent political issue at the time and they did, at least, broadly align on that.

What they didn’t see coming was a global pandemic and the war in Ukraine, which of course has economic ramifications much further reaching than Ukraine’s borders.

All of a sudden Brexit is a drop in the ocean of everyone’s problems, and we’re left with an utterly incompetent government making the worst of a bad situation.

The saddest thing is, it’s those historically Labour supporting Tory voters of 2019 that will suffer the most; too late now but a reminder of the importance of values by and sticking by them. Those Brexit era Tories were merely wolves in sheep’s clothing, and now they are simply showing themselves for what they truly are and truly were all along.

The absolute shysters.

My recollection is that Labour was hell-bent on overturning the Brexit referendum result, so erstwhile Labour voters had no option but to vote Conservative to ensure the democratic will of the British public was upheld; as you say they did not have to share any other Conservative values, but they didn't need to as they knew the more important question was to ensure a democratic vote was enacted.

If such a serious constitutional dilemma occurred again, then people would vote accordingly. For example, had the roles been reversed, and it was Labour asking for a mandate to ensure the Brexit vote was enacted, I would have voted Labour for the first, and only time in my life.

It is a moot point as to whether people would have voted the same way if they had known covid and war were around the corner, but my guess is they would as it has caused problems for governments of all colours around the world so either of the main parties would have struggled.

Tearing ourselves out of the world's largest trading bloc for which we have been members for four decades on the back of an 'Advisory' referendum with a result on a razor-thin margin and no idea how it would be done was idiocy of the highest order.

No surprise that such idiocy has led to peculiar voting patterns. A handful of Tories and their mates have done really well out of it, of course. Just a pity the rest of the country is now in the crapper because of it.

Officially it’s is a trading block but, in reality it has morphed into a political block, and I think that is why the majority of the British people voted against it.

Quoted from Gaffer58

Officially it’s is a trading block but, in reality it has morphed into a political block, and I think that is why the majority of the British people voted against it.

17.3m people voting leave out of 46.5m eligible voters (and a 65.7m overall population) is clearly not a 'majority of the British people', it's a majority of the 33.6m people who bothered to vote in the referendum - don't try and twist it to fit your agenda.

Quoted from Maringer

Tearing ourselves out of the world's largest trading bloc for which we have been members for four decades on the back of an 'Advisory' referendum with a result on a razor-thin margin and no idea how it would be done was idiocy of the highest order.

No surprise that such idiocy has led to peculiar voting patterns. A handful of Tories and their mates have done really well out of it, of course. Just a pity the rest of the country is now in the crapper because of it.

Absolutely this! Indisputable. And Golly, who is of an age where he should know the difference between the truth and a lie is debasing himself, as is anyone else who still thinks that brexit was a good idea (but can’t name a SINGLE benefit of it in the face of palpable evidence of its appalling destructive failure) is making themselves look utterly stupid in clinging to the lies and the sham and ignoring the reality.  Honestly, I’d have some sense of forgiveness and compassion for people who were duped into voting for Brexit, if they just said …I thought it was the right thing to do. I believed the conmen and the lies for patriotic reasons and I was plainly wrong. To carry on now still babbling utter guff just makes you look stupid and blind. Brexit, and it’s calamitous ramifications are the great modern taboo of todays political discourse. Nobody in government or opposition wants to openly say ‘this was a disastrous con, and we need to ask to rejoin and work to put it right. If that doesn’t happen, there’ll be no ‘growth’, all things considered, and anyone who knows anything at all about economics will tell you so.

so after 7 pages off political tackle swinging whats the conclusion
1/Mullin is a cheating toad
2/Mullins a scouser which makes him an even bigger toad
3/its ok to wear political/social statements as long as its a leftie view otherwise your a racist bigot and should be flogged
4/That Tony Blair was going too have a legal war until he was somehow strongarmed by Tories into lying and faking documents leading us into an illegal war killing hundreds off british soldiers(who knew)
5.The sad remoaning losers are still very very bitter,bless them,fancy not understanding how democracy works tut tut

big love from this Tory voting,brexit voting,hard working,proud straight,white male.........everything the labour party hates

bring on the red crosses and the judgemental labels by the tolerant left

Quoted from newarkmariner

so after 7 pages off political tackle swinging whats the conclusion
1/Mullin is a cheating toad
2/Mullins a scouser which makes him an even bigger toad
3/its ok to wear political/social statements as long as its a leftie view otherwise your a racist bigot and should be flogged
4/That Tony Blair was going too have a legal war until he was somehow strongarmed by Tories into lying and faking documents leading us into an illegal war killing hundreds off british soldiers(who knew)
5.The sad remoaning losers are still very very bitter,bless them,fancy not understanding how democracy works tut tut

big love from this Tory voting,brexit voting,hard working,proud straight,white male.........everything the labour party hates

bring on the red crosses and the judgemental labels by the tolerant left

Quoted from newarkmariner

so after 7 pages off political tackle swinging whats the conclusion
1/Mullin is a cheating toad
2/Mullins a scouser which makes him an even bigger toad
3/its ok to wear political/social statements as long as its a leftie view otherwise your a racist bigot and should be flogged
4/That Tony Blair was going too have a legal war until he was somehow strongarmed by Tories into lying and faking documents leading us into an illegal war killing hundreds off british soldiers(who knew)
5.The sad remoaning losers are still very very bitter,bless them,fancy not understanding how democracy works tut tut

big love from this Tory voting,brexit voting,hard working,proud straight,white male.........everything the labour party hates

bring on the red crosses and the judgemental labels by the tolerant left

I can’t even bottom myself to fathom out what this actually says…

Quoted from newarkmariner

so after 7 pages off political tackle swinging whats the conclusion
1/Mullin is a cheating toad
2/Mullins a scouser which makes him an even bigger toad
3/its ok to wear political/social statements as long as its a leftie view otherwise your a racist bigot and should be flogged
4/That Tony Blair was going too have a legal war until he was somehow strongarmed by Tories into lying and faking documents leading us into an illegal war killing hundreds off british soldiers(who knew)
5.The sad remoaning losers are still very very bitter,bless them,fancy not understanding how democracy works tut tut

big love from this Tory voting,brexit voting,hard working,proud straight,white male.........everything the labour party hates

bring on the red crosses and the judgemental labels by the tolerant left

Can’t get all that on the side of your boots though, can you?

Quoted from newarkmariner

so after 7 pages off political tackle swinging whats the conclusion
1/Mullin is a cheating toad
2/Mullins a scouser which makes him an even bigger toad
3/its ok to wear political/social statements as long as its a leftie view otherwise your a racist bigot and should be flogged
4/That Tony Blair was going too have a legal war until he was somehow strongarmed by Tories into lying and faking documents leading us into an illegal war killing hundreds off british soldiers(who knew)
5.The sad remoaning losers are still very very bitter,bless them,fancy not understanding how democracy works tut tut

big love from this Tory voting,brexit voting,hard working,proud straight,white male.........everything the labour party hates

bring on the red crosses and the judgemental labels by the tolerant left

And you’ve just underlined the point but are too stupid to realise you’ve done so.

The story still has legs…[url]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/oct/29/paul-mullin-wrexham-boots-conservatives-funding[/url]

Will it be covered in Series 2 of the documentary?

Quoted from barralad

146 of the 165 Tory MPs at the time voted for the motion. Most of the rest abstained. Over 50 Labour MPs voted against and Robin Cook resigned so he could be one of them.

That may well be true, but Tony Blair was lying to the MPs to get them to vote with him. Maybe some Labour MPs had more information, or maybe they just didn't want to go to war. Whatever the case, you can't blame the Conservatives for voting in favour of the false evidence they were informed about.

All I know about mullin, apart from him being a cheating swine, is that in the Wrexham documentary he comes across as the stand out bell-end. Quite something when your up against shaun Harvey.

Quoted from newarkmariner

so after 7 pages off political tackle swinging whats the conclusion
1/Mullin is a cheating toad
2/Mullins a scouser which makes him an even bigger toad
3/its ok to wear political/social statements as long as its a leftie view otherwise your a racist bigot and should be flogged
4/That Tony Blair was going too have a legal war until he was somehow strongarmed by Tories into lying and faking documents leading us into an illegal war killing hundreds off british soldiers(who knew)
5.The sad remoaning losers are still very very bitter,bless them,fancy not understanding how democracy works tut tut

big love from this Tory voting,brexit voting,hard working,proud straight,white male.........everything the labour party hates

bring on the red crosses and the judgemental labels by the tolerant left

If you cannot see the light by now then you are not informed. I have never met Mullin but it seems he has his head screwed on politically. Brexit is making the country poorer because of right wing Tory ideology. The Tories don’t even mention Brexit because they know it is a total failure and was always going to be. We are on the way to being 4% worse off in terms of GDP. Brexit was like cutting your own throat.
The problem with democracy is that it allows misinformed people to vote. You must have believed every single lie told by Johnson and the rest of them to vote for Brexit. And your Tory MP will not level up Grimsby; that is all myth. Now you are about to face years more of austerity and the NHS is in mortal danger. Truss thought she could do as she liked because Brexiters think Britain is now ’sovereign’ but forgot about the international markets and finance system. They were the ones that took control, not Britain. The world is a network. No country can do what is likes without considering the ramifications on others.
I do not like writing about politics on a football board but your post made me see red. Perhaps one day you might realise that Brexit is and always will be a total calamity for this country.  

Quoted from hampshiremariner

If you cannot see the light by now then you are not informed. I have never met Mullin but it seems he has his head screwed on politically. Brexit is making the country poorer because of right wing Tory ideology. The Tories don’t even mention Brexit because they know it is a total failure and was always going to be. We are on the way to being 4% worse off in terms of GDP. Brexit was like cutting your own throat.
The problem with democracy is that it allows misinformed people to vote. You must have believed every single lie told by Johnson and the rest of them to vote for Brexit. And your Tory MP will not level up Grimsby; that is all myth. Now you are about to face years more of austerity and the NHS is in mortal danger. Truss thought she could do as she liked because Brexiters think Britain is now ’sovereign’ but forgot about the international markets and finance system. They were the ones that took control, not Britain. The world is a network. No country can do what is likes without considering the ramifications on others.
I do not like writing about politics on a football board but your post made me see red. Perhaps one day you might realise that Brexit is and always will be a total calamity for this country.  

Your post has made me see red!

I am afraid you cannot have a democracy if you only want well informed people to vote, and/or are completely unable to accept the result of a vote. If you mean misinformed because they don’t share your views then that is totally wrong.

Every person who votes in any election have their reasons for voting in a particular way, and it certainly is not purely economics. There's a plethora of reasons and  you have to accept that.

Like everyone else I have been disappointed with the outcome of some democratic decisions, but you have to have losers consent otherwise it all unravels as the Labour Party found to it's cost when they started to talk about second referendums. The fact that Labour have now accepted Brexit has helped them enormously in their heartlands especially.

Democracy isn't perfect but its the best we've got.

Here’s what I think of what you’ve written

You voted for brexit. You believed all the guff that was spouted by proven liars and charlatans like Johnson and Gove and Hannon and Farage and Rees-Mogg. ‘The country has had enough of experts’ Gove said. Yes, we don’t want economists and people who can understand data to inform us. What we want is self interested bigots and con men and xenaphobes. Now all of that has been exposed as a pile of cr@p and the economic fallout is bare and indisputable and Grimsby is stuck, like so many Towns with a hateful sycophant and truth denier as their representative you’re embarrassed. You’re embarrassed and you don’t know what to do. You think that holding your hands up and saying ‘I called this wrong’ is weakness somehow, so you’re now digging in, talking cobblers about democracy, and the ‘people’s right to have their will enacted’, even though way more than half the country didn’t vote for brexit and those that did, did so on a pack of lies and didn’t know what it was or what it would mean. And, of course, we can’t change our mind. Oh no. That’s not how your version of democracy works. We must drive this car off the cliff. We must hack our head off with a bread knife. It’s the will of the people.. you remoaners need to accept it and get over it. What a way to operate this democracy you like. A democracy where lies and liars prevail, and uninformed decisions have to be enacted and stuck with and minds cannot be changed. Even when the facts show up. In no other area of life would sane humans act like this. So much for your concept of ‘democracy’.

It’s absolutely boneheaded to take your stance. Hole dug, and continuing to dig it. Against a backdrop of appalling reality .

Quoted from chaos33

Here’s what I think of what you’ve written

You voted for brexit. You believed all the guff that was spouted by proven liars and charlatans like Johnson and Gove and Hannon and Farage and Rees-Mogg. ‘The country has had enough of experts’ Gove said. Yes, we don’t want economists and people who can understand data to inform us. What we want is self interested bigots and con men and xenaphobes. Now all of that has been exposed as a pile of cr@p and the economic fallout is bare and indisputable and Grimsby is stuck, like so many Towns with a hateful sycophant and truth denier as their representative you’re embarrassed. You’re embarrassed and you don’t know what to do. You think that holding your hands up and saying ‘I called this wrong’ is weakness somehow, so you’re now digging in, talking cobblers about democracy, and the ‘people’s right to have their will enacted’, even though way more than half the country didn’t vote for brexit and those that did, did so on a pack of lies and didn’t know what it was or what it would mean. And, of course, we can’t change our mind. Oh no. That’s not how your version of democracy works. We must drive this car off the cliff. We must hack our head off with a bread knife. It’s the will of the people.. you remoaners need to accept it and get over it. What a way to operate this democracy you like. A democracy where lies and liars prevail, and uninformed decisions have to be enacted and stuck with and minds cannot be changed. Even when the facts show up. In no other area of life would sane humans act like this. So much for your concept of ‘democracy’.

It’s absolutely boneheaded to take your stance. Hole dug, and continuing to dig it. Against a backdrop of appalling reality .

What an absolute load of balderdash. How on earth you can blame Brexit for all the problems when we've had Covid and Russia causing so much chaos and both of those things have hit our densely populated, gas reliant nation harder than most others. It's impossible to isolate the effects of those, so it's not possible to blame any one for the problems. Brexit has created some problems, but many people voted for it to take control away from Brussels, and we have. Whether or not the government are doing a good job is irrelevant, we will elect people to make our rules, not get stuck with what the United States of Germany and France decide suits them best.

I suppose you think Scotland should just keep having referendums until Nicola Sturgeon finally gets what she wants?

Quoted from pen penfras

What an absolute load of balderdash. How on earth you can blame Brexit for all the problems when we've had Covid and Russia causing so much chaos and both of those things have hit our densely populated, gas reliant nation harder than most others. It's impossible to isolate the effects of those, so it's not possible to blame any one for the problems. Brexit has created some problems, but many people voted for it to take control away from Brussels, and we have. Whether or not the government are doing a good job is irrelevant, we will elect people to make our rules, not get stuck with what the United States of Germany and France decide suits them best.

I suppose you think Scotland should just keep having referendums until Nicola Sturgeon finally gets what she wants?

Taken control of what exactly? Since that vote we’ve had the most unstable government ever seen in this country.

Impossible to argue anything other than the fact the entire population was hoodwinked by lying politicians who saw only ways to feather their own nest. Many that voted leave did little by the way of research and simply believed people with a track record for lying profusely about everything.

Covid came along and regardless of views on covid, our government failed miserably to respond and when they did it was arguably too late.

This war on Ukraine is being used as a blame tactic for things but in truth, a war in Ukraine can only be used for so long before people realise that as a nation were being mugged off and ripped off, with Brexit being a major player in that.

Mullin scored a cracking goal by the way…

And I still stand by the idea that perhaps his boots were a naive idea, but I suspect more Wrexham fans were in support of his comment than against.

Quoted from aldi_01

Taken control of what exactly? Since that vote we’ve had the most unstable government ever seen in this country.

Impossible to argue anything other than the fact the entire population was hoodwinked by lying politicians who saw only ways to feather their own nest. Many that voted leave did little by the way of research and simply believed people with a track record for lying profusely about everything.

And I still stand by the idea that perhaps his boots were a naive idea, but I suspect more Wrexham fans were in support of his comment than against.

Iam not big into politics Aldi. Too many ramifications and you can never have the golden nugget that pleases all. As someone who has voted for both left and right previously with hindsight I think Brexit was a bad idea and we should of stayed in the European Union eg were better together.

As for Mullin and his boots I can understand why he has issues with the Tory's at the moment but f*** this and that could of been put more eloquently or better still kept silent and tried to use his vote at the next election to change things .

Quoted from aldi_01

Taken control of what exactly? Since that vote we’ve had the most unstable government ever seen in this country.

Impossible to argue anything other than the fact the entire population was hoodwinked by lying politicians who saw only ways to feather their own nest. Many that voted leave did little by the way of research and simply believed people with a track record for lying profusely about everything.

Covid came along and regardless of views on covid, our government failed miserably to respond and when they did it was arguably too late.

This war on Ukraine is being used as a blame tactic for things but in truth, a war in Ukraine can only be used for so long before people realise that as a nation were being mugged off and ripped off, with Brexit being a major player in that.

Mullin scored a cracking goal by the way…

And I still stand by the idea that perhaps his boots were a naive idea, but I suspect more Wrexham fans were in support of his comment than against.

We've taken control of the ability to make our own decisions. I explicitly said, how good or bad the government have been is irrelevant, we elect them and they make the decisions.

All European nations are seeing reduced growth and high inflation as a result of the Ukraine war. We're the most gas reliant out of all of them. How can you possibly say it's being used as a smokescreen to hide Brexit problems? We were predicted the highest growth in the G7 over the next few years before Covid and the war screwed it all up.

I don't get the government bashing over Covid, they were probably a week late to react at the very start and had the unfortunate situation of one of the first breakouts so it was more unknown than when others could make decisions with a little bit of evidence. After that, we did almost everything better than other nations. More testing, early vaccination, opened up at the right time which benefitted our economy. As much as I detest Boris Johnson, his government led us through the pandemic well.

Quoted from chaos33

Here’s what I think of what you’ve written

You voted for brexit. You believed all the guff that was spouted by proven liars and charlatans like Johnson and Gove and Hannon and Farage and Rees-Mogg. ‘The country has had enough of experts’ Gove said. Yes, we don’t want economists and people who can understand data to inform us. What we want is self interested bigots and con men and xenaphobes. Now all of that has been exposed as a pile of cr@p and the economic fallout is bare and indisputable and Grimsby is stuck, like so many Towns with a hateful sycophant and truth denier as their representative you’re embarrassed. You’re embarrassed and you don’t know what to do. You think that holding your hands up and saying ‘I called this wrong’ is weakness somehow, so you’re now digging in, talking cobblers about democracy, and the ‘people’s right to have their will enacted’, even though way more than half the country didn’t vote for brexit and those that did, did so on a pack of lies and didn’t know what it was or what it would mean. And, of course, we can’t change our mind. Oh no. That’s not how your version of democracy works. We must drive this car off the cliff. We must hack our head off with a bread knife. It’s the will of the people.. you remoaners need to accept it and get over it. What a way to operate this democracy you like. A democracy where lies and liars prevail, and uninformed decisions have to be enacted and stuck with and minds cannot be changed. Even when the facts show up. In no other area of life would sane humans act like this. So much for your concept of ‘democracy’.

It’s absolutely boneheaded to take your stance. Hole dug, and continuing to dig it. Against a backdrop of appalling reality .

You couldn't be more wrong.

I was defending democracy against the charge that only intelligent or well read people should be able to vote.

Let me give you a real life example.

My dad left Harold Street school aged 15 without any qualifications whatsoever.

A day later he sailed to sea as a deckie learner and spent a lifetime in the most dangerous job around.

He was not very well read; he was a common man who had no great insight. But he worked hard, paid his taxes and for all his life rightly or wrongly voted Labour.  No problem with that.

He did think however that the EU was an undemocratic rip off, and preferred nation states so he voted Brexit.

The previous poster suggested he was the sort of person who shouldn't have been allowed to vote. I am saying the opposite that all eligible people should be able to vote because their views are just as valid.

You think Brexit was a mistake. If my dad was still alive he would say nonsense - the EU is still an undemocratic rip off and I am glad we're out!

Quoted from pen penfras

What an absolute load of balderdash. How on earth you can blame Brexit for all the problems when we've had Covid and Russia causing so much chaos and both of those things have hit our densely populated, gas reliant nation harder than most others. It's impossible to isolate the effects of those, so it's not possible to blame any one for the problems. Brexit has created some problems, but many people voted for it to take control away from Brussels, and we have. Whether or not the government are doing a good job is irrelevant, we will elect people to make our rules, not get stuck with what the United States of Germany and France decide suits them best.

I suppose you think Scotland should just keep having referendums until Nicola Sturgeon finally gets what she wants?

You continue with your self con, but you know what happens now..?

Please give us an example of something that we can now decide for ourselves that we couldn’t when we were in the EU? Jacob Rees-Mogg couldn’t actually identify a brexit benefit. Can you?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You couldn't be more wrong.

I was defending democracy against the charge that only intelligent or well read people should be able to vote.

Let me give you a real life example.

My dad left Harold Street school aged 15 without any qualifications whatsoever.

A day later he sailed to sea as a deckie learner and spent a lifetime in the most dangerous job around.

He was not very well read; he was a common man who had no great insight. But he worked hard, paid his taxes and for all his life rightly or wrongly voted Labour.  No problem with that.

He did think however that the EU was an undemocratic rip off, and preferred nation states so he voted Brexit.

The previous poster suggested he was the sort of person who shouldn't have been allowed to vote. I am saying the opposite that all eligible people should be able to vote because their views are just as valid.

You think Brexit was a mistake. If my dad was still alive he would say nonsense - the EU is still an undemocratic rip off and I am glad we're out!

Jolly good, but that’s not the point I’m making is it.

Quoted from chaos33

Jolly good, but that’s not the point I’m making is it.

My dad in your eyes would be "boneheaded" but he and me preferred a nation state away from an undemocratic EU.

Nobody is right or wrong but we voted to leave.

Ignoring any Brexit stuff, here's IDS (Tory leader at the time) visiting Bush to tell him he would back an invasion of Iraq back in November 2001:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/nov/29/conservatives.uk

The invasion didn't take place for almost 16 months after that. By all means feel free to criticise Blair for becoming Bush's poodle and dragging us into a war with no longer-term aims, just don't imagine that the Tories would have done anything different if they had been in power at the time.

Brexit was and is a stupid idea and what made it worse was that the leavers weren't making their arguments in good faith. If they'd been honest and said an economic hit was worthwhile to regain sovereignty, they would at least have had a coherent argument. Instead, they lied about the outcome would be and, because they got themselves into power following the referendum, continued to lie and negotiated the withdrawal in bad faith because it was the only way in which they could remain in power. It has led to sovereignty + a massive economic hit + troubles in Northern Ireland + likelihood of breakup of the UK. The alternative 'softer' Brexit would have meant a tiny bit less sovereignty, but a lot less of all the other downsides.

Still, at least those who funded the various leave compaigns have done well out of it, eh?

Quoted from pen penfras

We've taken control of the ability to make our own decisions. I explicitly said, how good or bad the government have been is irrelevant, we elect them and they make the decisions.

All European nations are seeing reduced growth and high inflation as a result of the Ukraine war. We're the most gas reliant out of all of them. How can you possibly say it's being used as a smokescreen to hide Brexit problems? We were predicted the highest growth in the G7 over the next few years before Covid and the war screwed it all up.

I don't get the government bashing over Covid, they were probably a week late to react at the very start and had the unfortunate situation of one of the first breakouts so it was more unknown than when others could make decisions with a little bit of evidence. After that, we did almost everything better than other nations. More testing, early vaccination, opened up at the right time which benefitted our economy. As much as I detest Boris Johnson, his government led us through the pandemic well.

No we're not. We are not even close to the amount of gas Germany import from Russia and I don't even think we are in the top ten European countries of importers of gas. We used to have an economy that was 90% of the size of Germany's and now it is only 70%.

Our growth was predicted to be the highest, because it had fallen to one of the lowest and it didn't take much to make the statistics seem favourable.

We ended up with Brexit, which has been disastrous, because boneheaded people in places like Grimsby and Hartlepool (to keep it topical) voted on grounds of immigration and sovereignty, not realising the financial impact it would have and the fact that they would no longer be allowed free movement in Europe.

Quoted from ginnywings

No we're not. We are not even close to the amount of gas Germany import from Russia and I don't even think we are in the top ten European countries of importers of gas. We used to have an economy that was 90% of the size of Germany's and now it is only 70%.

Our growth was predicted to be the highest, because it had fallen to one of the lowest and it didn't take much to make the statistics seem favourable.

We ended up with Brexit, which has been disastrous, because boneheaded people in places like Grimsby and Hartlepool (to keep it topical) voted on grounds of immigration and sovereignty, not realising the financial impact it would have and the fact that they would no longer be allowed free movement in Europe.

Bit in bold is 100% right IMHO. Ironically it was that proportion of the leave vote that is most impacted now unlike those with means who believe the UK and particularly England needs to be like a book from HE Marshall or Ladybird.

Don’t even get me started on that f**k whit Nutella Braverman and the current lot who are the cause of it, or that spineless tw@t Cameron who didn’t have the balls to take on the “leave” element in his party to say no to a referendum then he runs away like a coward afterwards.

History will look back in this period as one of the most I’ll informed, fake news driven, selfish & ignorant times of peoples lives.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Bit in bold is 100% right IMHO. Ironically it was that proportion of the leave vote that is most impacted now unlike those with means who believe the UK and particularly England nerds to be like a book from HE Marshall or Ladybird.

Don’t even get me started on that f**k whit Nutella Braverman and the current lot who are the cause of it, or that spineless tw@t Cameron who didn’t have the balls to take on the “leave” element in his party to say no to a referendum then he runs away like a coward afterwards.

History will look back in this period as one of the most I’ll informed, fake news driven, selfish & ignorant times of peoples lives.

This was always the irony; those likely and have proven to be affected negatively by Brexit all live in areas that fell for the bullshit hook line and sinker…

Quoted from aldi_01

This was always the irony; those likely and have proven to be affected negatively by Brexit all live in areas that fell for the bullshit hook line and sinker…

Or naive  voters that should of looked at the wider picture and then weighed up all the pros and cons.

Quoted from Rick12

Or naive  voters that should of looked at the wider picture and then weighed up all the pros and cons.

Did the media talk about pros and cons or just ketping our borders in tact and it being like it used to be?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Did the media talk about pros and cons or just ketping our borders in tact and it being like it used to be?

Depended on what media you read or politicians you listen to .

From what I seem to remember a fair few were taken in primarily by the immigration debate and keeping numbers down. Wrongly in my view as there is more to politics than just immigration and shouldnt be primarily on what a pro or negative Brexit slant and vote should lie on.

For me personally I think some had legitimate concerns and nothing to do with the immigration discussion but overall for me  the pros outweigh the cons in staying in Europe. Better together as one.

Quoted from Rick12

Depended on what media you read or politicians you listen to .

From what I seem to remember a fair few were taken in primarily by the immigration debate and keeping numbers down. Wrongly in my view as there is more to politics than just immigration and shouldnt be primarily on what a pro or negative Brexit slant and vote should lie on.

For me personally I think some had legitimate concerns and nothing to do with the immigration discussion but overall for me  the pros outweigh the cons in staying in Europe. Better together as one.

That's why we had a vote Rick! All the issues raised in this thread were discussed ad nausem in the years leading up to the referendum and in the campaign itself.

We then had the vote so that those who wished to vote (whether highly educated or not as the case may be) could have a say in how the country should be run in accordance with their own preferences.

Obviously nothing is set in stone, and years down the line people may wish to re visit our decision but it is incredibly unlikely we will ever rejoin as we would have to go "all in" with their united States of Europe project, Euro and all, which is what the British people did not want as time went on.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

That's why we had a vote Rick! All the issues raised in this thread were discussed ad nausem in the years leading up to the referendum and in the campaign itself.

We then had the vote so that those who wished to vote (whether highly educated or not as the case may be) could have a say in how the country should be run in accordance with their own preferences.

Obviously nothing is set in stone, and years down the line people may wish to re visit our decision but it is incredibly unlikely we will ever rejoin as we would have to go "all in" with their united States of Europe project, Euro and all, which is what the British people did not want as time went on.

I do think though Lew the conservatives have had their time and Labour will more than likely get in at the next election .

Quoted from Rick12

I do think though Lew the conservatives have had their time and Labour will more than likely get in at the next election .

If that is the will of the electorate then Rick so be it!