Wrexham striker Paul Mullin stirs up controversy

Ignoring any Brexit stuff, here's IDS (Tory leader at the time) visiting Bush to tell him he would back an invasion of Iraq back in November 2001:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2001/nov/29/conservatives.uk

The invasion didn't take place for almost 16 months after that. By all means feel free to criticise Blair for becoming Bush's poodle and dragging us into a war with no longer-term aims, just don't imagine that the Tories would have done anything different if they had been in power at the time.

Brexit was and is a stupid idea and what made it worse was that the leavers weren't making their arguments in good faith. If they'd been honest and said an economic hit was worthwhile to regain sovereignty, they would at least have had a coherent argument. Instead, they lied about the outcome would be and, because they got themselves into power following the referendum, continued to lie and negotiated the withdrawal in bad faith because it was the only way in which they could remain in power. It has led to sovereignty + a massive economic hit + troubles in Northern Ireland + likelihood of breakup of the UK. The alternative 'softer' Brexit would have meant a tiny bit less sovereignty, but a lot less of all the other downsides.

Still, at least those who funded the various leave compaigns have done well out of it, eh?

Quoted from pen penfras

We've taken control of the ability to make our own decisions. I explicitly said, how good or bad the government have been is irrelevant, we elect them and they make the decisions.

All European nations are seeing reduced growth and high inflation as a result of the Ukraine war. We're the most gas reliant out of all of them. How can you possibly say it's being used as a smokescreen to hide Brexit problems? We were predicted the highest growth in the G7 over the next few years before Covid and the war screwed it all up.

I don't get the government bashing over Covid, they were probably a week late to react at the very start and had the unfortunate situation of one of the first breakouts so it was more unknown than when others could make decisions with a little bit of evidence. After that, we did almost everything better than other nations. More testing, early vaccination, opened up at the right time which benefitted our economy. As much as I detest Boris Johnson, his government led us through the pandemic well.

No we're not. We are not even close to the amount of gas Germany import from Russia and I don't even think we are in the top ten European countries of importers of gas. We used to have an economy that was 90% of the size of Germany's and now it is only 70%.

Our growth was predicted to be the highest, because it had fallen to one of the lowest and it didn't take much to make the statistics seem favourable.

We ended up with Brexit, which has been disastrous, because boneheaded people in places like Grimsby and Hartlepool (to keep it topical) voted on grounds of immigration and sovereignty, not realising the financial impact it would have and the fact that they would no longer be allowed free movement in Europe.

Quoted from ginnywings

No we're not. We are not even close to the amount of gas Germany import from Russia and I don't even think we are in the top ten European countries of importers of gas. We used to have an economy that was 90% of the size of Germany's and now it is only 70%.

Our growth was predicted to be the highest, because it had fallen to one of the lowest and it didn't take much to make the statistics seem favourable.

We ended up with Brexit, which has been disastrous, because boneheaded people in places like Grimsby and Hartlepool (to keep it topical) voted on grounds of immigration and sovereignty, not realising the financial impact it would have and the fact that they would no longer be allowed free movement in Europe.

Bit in bold is 100% right IMHO. Ironically it was that proportion of the leave vote that is most impacted now unlike those with means who believe the UK and particularly England needs to be like a book from HE Marshall or Ladybird.

Don’t even get me started on that f**k whit Nutella Braverman and the current lot who are the cause of it, or that spineless tw@t Cameron who didn’t have the balls to take on the “leave” element in his party to say no to a referendum then he runs away like a coward afterwards.

History will look back in this period as one of the most I’ll informed, fake news driven, selfish & ignorant times of peoples lives.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Bit in bold is 100% right IMHO. Ironically it was that proportion of the leave vote that is most impacted now unlike those with means who believe the UK and particularly England nerds to be like a book from HE Marshall or Ladybird.

Don’t even get me started on that f**k whit Nutella Braverman and the current lot who are the cause of it, or that spineless tw@t Cameron who didn’t have the balls to take on the “leave” element in his party to say no to a referendum then he runs away like a coward afterwards.

History will look back in this period as one of the most I’ll informed, fake news driven, selfish & ignorant times of peoples lives.

This was always the irony; those likely and have proven to be affected negatively by Brexit all live in areas that fell for the bullshit hook line and sinker…

Quoted from aldi_01

This was always the irony; those likely and have proven to be affected negatively by Brexit all live in areas that fell for the bullshit hook line and sinker…

Or naive  voters that should of looked at the wider picture and then weighed up all the pros and cons.

Quoted from Rick12

Or naive  voters that should of looked at the wider picture and then weighed up all the pros and cons.

Did the media talk about pros and cons or just ketping our borders in tact and it being like it used to be?

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Did the media talk about pros and cons or just ketping our borders in tact and it being like it used to be?

Depended on what media you read or politicians you listen to .

From what I seem to remember a fair few were taken in primarily by the immigration debate and keeping numbers down. Wrongly in my view as there is more to politics than just immigration and shouldnt be primarily on what a pro or negative Brexit slant and vote should lie on.

For me personally I think some had legitimate concerns and nothing to do with the immigration discussion but overall for me  the pros outweigh the cons in staying in Europe. Better together as one.

Quoted from Rick12

Depended on what media you read or politicians you listen to .

From what I seem to remember a fair few were taken in primarily by the immigration debate and keeping numbers down. Wrongly in my view as there is more to politics than just immigration and shouldnt be primarily on what a pro or negative Brexit slant and vote should lie on.

For me personally I think some had legitimate concerns and nothing to do with the immigration discussion but overall for me  the pros outweigh the cons in staying in Europe. Better together as one.

That's why we had a vote Rick! All the issues raised in this thread were discussed ad nausem in the years leading up to the referendum and in the campaign itself.

We then had the vote so that those who wished to vote (whether highly educated or not as the case may be) could have a say in how the country should be run in accordance with their own preferences.

Obviously nothing is set in stone, and years down the line people may wish to re visit our decision but it is incredibly unlikely we will ever rejoin as we would have to go "all in" with their united States of Europe project, Euro and all, which is what the British people did not want as time went on.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

That's why we had a vote Rick! All the issues raised in this thread were discussed ad nausem in the years leading up to the referendum and in the campaign itself.

We then had the vote so that those who wished to vote (whether highly educated or not as the case may be) could have a say in how the country should be run in accordance with their own preferences.

Obviously nothing is set in stone, and years down the line people may wish to re visit our decision but it is incredibly unlikely we will ever rejoin as we would have to go "all in" with their united States of Europe project, Euro and all, which is what the British people did not want as time went on.

I do think though Lew the conservatives have had their time and Labour will more than likely get in at the next election .

Quoted from Rick12

I do think though Lew the conservatives have had their time and Labour will more than likely get in at the next election .

If that is the will of the electorate then Rick so be it!