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Is this team really better than last seasons?

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Ipswin
August 22, 2016, 12:46pm
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Quoted from headingly_mariner


I'd be much happier seeing padraig Amond on the end of Ben Davies wicked delivery than anyone we have in the squad now.


This



On bended knee is no way to be free - Peter R de Vries

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lew chaterleys lover
August 22, 2016, 1:31pm
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Quoted from diehardmariner
It's a completely different side, even our approach to games is different.  Last season was about pummelling sides who came to shut us out, this year we're more technical and definitely more athletic.  

Would the 11 who played yesterday beat the 11 who ended last season?  Probably.  Does that mean they're automatically good enough to be at the very least comfortable in this league?  Absolutely not.  Based on a couple of cup games we seem to have developed this mentality that the gap between the Conference and League Two hasn't moved in the 6 years we were absent.   Fewer teams are jumping from the Conference into League Two and succeeding straight away, that should give us the biggest indication of the gulf in class.

Last season we were miles off winning the league, we can dress it up all we like but we were fourth best in probably the worst Conference of the six seasons we were down there.  We got it right when it mattered and put in two of our best performances of the season when it mattered (well one and a half performances).  That team, as much as I loved that team, was never ever going to rattle through League Two on momentum alone.  It needed a massive quality upgrade.  

Losing Toto created a massive hole at the back.  We lack his pace, badly.  But for all his pace he had errors in him and we're already seeing that you don't get second chances at this level.  Ollie Palmer's goal was a classic example of the difference from last season.  Pearson was outstanding all game, got his footing wrong for a second....GOAL.  No chance to recover.  Game over.  That was the only mistake the defence made all game. McKeown's error was completely out of character and I'm afraid has to go down as one of those things.

Davies and Tait are probably on par, at a push I would take Tait at the minute but I think I would prefer Davies when he's got a proper licence to go forward, i.e a holding midfielder covering him and the other fullback.  Andrew is an upgrade on Robertson/Horwood.  Quicker, strong, more attacking, better delivery with crosses.  

In midfield we've upgraded beyond belief.  McAllister, Disley, Berrett and Summerfield are the strongest midfield options we've had for god knows how long.  Last season we had Craig Clay who was a 1 in 3 player in there to break play up alongside Craig Disley who was playing the deepest role of his career.  It's no wonder we didn't score many goals.  We rectified this by bringing in Jon Nolan who, as good as he was individually, completely upset the balance of the midfield and we got dominated by really poor sides as a result.  We're winning second balls now, we're carrying the ball forward from midfield and we're actually passing forward rather than to the side all the time.

Up front - that's the concern.  Vernon, Bogle and Jackson all look like they will be good as an alternative to a front pairing.  Someone to mix it up or offer something fresh from the bench.  None of them look like strikers you want to pin your season on.  Vernon of the three should be the one to start every game because he makes it stick, the other two need someone to work of.  The concern for me is that we've got two guys who've not played played in the league before this month and are making a bit step-up and a guy who isn't a renowned goalscorer either.  

I think we'll be fine, more than fine but we need to find our feet fast.  Yesterday when we conceded the first goal we just rolled over and accepted it.  Even in the final five minutes when we should have been really chasing the game we looked flat.  If there's a soft belly it needs sorting.

I don't think the formation is helping us.  There was a big clamour to return to 4-4-2 after a limp pre-season and, in my opinion, Hurst should have ignored it.  The striker looked too isolated in pre-season so it should have been about changing things in and around the lone striker, not the whole formation.  
Players were brought in to play a 4-3-3 (or whatever variation you want to use) and we're now trying to shoehorn them into a 4-4-2.  Andrew and Davies are wing-backs.  They're not traditional full backs and they want to get forward at every opportunity.  McAllister (I think Disley could do the job too) sitting in front of the two centre backs allowed them to do that in pre-season.  Now it's a 4-4-2 they haven't got that luxury.  We've four central midfielders who I think all look excellent. But we can only play 2.  That means Berrett is shunted out wide only to cut inside all the time, whilst we've got two wingers who want to run like intercourse at their fullbacks.

Whatever formation we go with I want Hurst to go for games.  Bolinarwa and Browne have that asset that defenders hate, at whatever level you're at, pure pace.  Their pace along with that of Jackson should be what we're attacking teams with.  I thought Chambers had an excellent game yesterday but all his best work was done inside, same for Berrett.  If we're going to play 4-4-2 you've got to have wingers who are going to stretch the opposition defence.  Yesterday was exactly the same as last season, we became too narrow far too early.

Excellent post is that.
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97
August 22, 2016, 3:46pm
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In answer to the OP, yes.

However, it does look like PH's plan was to replace Amond with LJL, which leaves me dismayed. And the fact that he didn't have a plan B when LJL got injured, leaves me even more dismayed.

Having said all that, I have no doubt PH will rectify this if people at least give him until the end of September.
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Maringer
August 22, 2016, 4:05pm
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I think the midfielders as a group are better footballers than last season and we passed it around quite nicely at times on Saturday, but we still lack any real pace in the middle which means our options are a bit limited there. It also means that we're not particularly well-suited for 4-3-3, IMO, because I think you need more mobility in the middle with just 3 midfielders there. Many of the best things that Nolan did last season came because he had a little burst of pace to take him clear of the opposition midfield which gave him other options to play.

It still seems pretty strange to me that Hurst's attacking signings seem to have been made to give us the option of playing a 4-3-3 or similar variant, yet again we're one-paced in the middle. Both Berett and Summerfield have some ability but are pretty lightweight and tend to go AWOL for large spells of the game - on Saturday, Summerfield was anonymous for much of the first half and in the second, Berrett barely touched the ball before he went off. I'm not convinced that the midfield is strong enough with both playing.

I think the defenders we have are all decent enough, providing they can hit some better form and cut out the errors but agree a bit more pace in the centre of the defence would be useful. Gowling probably the quickest of our central defenders and I'd say he is certainly quick enough, but he seems to have made a lot of errors already this season and is almost panicking at times. I like the look of both of the full-backs, going forward especially (though I think Tait is better defensively than Davies) and both have long throws and a good cross on them, something which we badly missed last season. It just seems a bit perverse that we don't have anybody up front with the height to make use of some long throws! (Though Bogle actually did better than usual in that respect on Saturday).

Hopefully the lack of aerial ability is something Hurst will eventually rectify with a new striker which is badly needed.
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ginnywings
August 22, 2016, 4:19pm

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Are we sure that Hurst signed players to play 4-3-3, or are we just surmising that? I've never heard him say that and he seems a 4-4-2 man to me, with the odd dabble in other formations, usually quickly discarded.
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mariner91
August 22, 2016, 4:31pm
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Quoted from ginnywings
Are we sure that Hurst signed players to play 4-3-3, or are we just surmising that? I've never heard him say that and he seems a 4-4-2 man to me, with the odd dabble in other formations, usually quickly discarded.


We only have three wide players and six central midfielders. Seems an odd choice of numbers if you were looking at playing 4-4-2.
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Maringer
August 22, 2016, 5:52pm
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I personally think Hurst has always hankered after 4-3-3 though the only time it was ever tried for any period of time was when Shorty/Shouty took over and started playing Connell a bit out on the left. Ever since then, we've tended to end up with a 4-4-2-ish formation though many of the wingers signed tended to be more attacking wideish players rather than out and out wingers and we've often seen central midfielders played in lopsided 'wide' positions. We've never had the mobility or flexibility in the central midfield to make a success of 4-3-3 which always seems a bit odd. The lack of pace in the middle has always surprised me as well, truth be told (thinking Kerr, Thanoj, McLaughlin, Clay and Brown to some degree). When Disley has consistently been our quickest central-midfielder even though he's well into his thirties, you can see why we're not the most dynamic team.

We seem to have a bit more pace up top/out wide this season with Bolarinwa and the lad from Aldershot and Chambers isn't slow, but nothing similar in the middle of the field.

Both Venney and Clifton look to be decent ball players from the little I've seen of either, but I do have to wonder if they will get a look in without a more physically imposing player alongside them helping to do the donkey-work? I certainly couldn't see either of them anchoring midfield alongside the likes of Summerfield or Berrett, for example.

I do wonder how much of it is that Hurst has thought how he wants to play, signed half the players to do so, but then been unable to get the missing pieces? Despite the variations we've seen in pre-season, it really does appear that we tend to end up with 4-4-2 almost by default. Nothing wrong with that formation, of course, but we're just not that great with it at the moment.
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monkeyboy
August 22, 2016, 6:49pm
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The Team is not better than last seasons YET.!  We have a reasonable team of individuals but not yet a gelled team. Time will tell but i get the feeling one or two bad attitudes will shine through soon.
Hurst usually offs the guys with attitudes reasonably quickly but it is difficult to see whats going to replace them.

Vose looks like the first to show and if judging by what York fans say(all 10 of them) Summerfield performances will nose dive as they say he started well then got complacent and lazy.
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Cloudy
August 22, 2016, 8:17pm
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Quoted from monkeyboy


Vose looks like the first to show and if judging by what York fans say(all 10 of them) Summerfield performances will nose dive as they say he started well then got complacent and lazy.


Nose dive from current levels. Not sure that is possible!
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Rhys_Mariners
August 22, 2016, 9:02pm
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i have said this before you can NOT replace team spirit, team spirit will overcome ability time and time again. The squad last year wanted to fight for each other week in week out and i am not seeing that from this current bunch.
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