Is this team really better than last seasons?

So many of new comers have disappointed it begs the question

Ffs

Yes prob better than last year but not good enough at the moment

It'd be better if the clowns could actually defend properly. Chucking points away for fun at the moment.

Of course they're better than last season, we're definitely quicker and more technical. Defensively though it's absolutely flipping woeful, Hurst HAS to get out of this stubbourn mindset and sign somebody. We need a better striker too, why is it no matter where we're at in terms of the league, Hurst always seems to be a striker short? Some urine poor planning and signing too many relegated players.

However, we're definitely better than last year.

No Too many new faces who are not as good as those who have left

The result didn't reflect the game fairly, 2-1 us would have been a fair result. They didn't look like anything to get worked up about, we are desperately missing Toto and Podge, no pace at the back, no one to score the massive number of chances we create. You can't legislate for two massive mistakes like that, showed character to come back and not go down without a whimper They didn't create anything, they didn't have to, we didi it all for them, didn't look shaky defensively, but we continue to gift terrible goals. Thought Berrett was poor, Omar showed very good awarness. Need a win from somewhere desperately.

Better than last year but to early to judge them against the other teams in this league.

Welcome to warped inner mind of Fishy followers.

Four games in and the doom mongers are having a field day. Technical problems take time to smooth out, and guaranteeed success is not always on the cards, but it's a marathon not a sprint. Still expect them to be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. We did clinically take apart the team who are top of the table in the first game, and it will come good again. Give it time ffs.

I think it was always going to be tough this season and we must make two good signings next week, if we don't i think it may well be a relegation scrap? but still hoping for the best.

Absolutely not! nothing I have seen so far tells me anything other than relegation battle, last seasons team would of been mid table comfortably.

It's very early to say but probably agree with Vinno. A bottom half campaign seems most likely. I think we are short of quality in key positions, have too many conference standard players, too many from a dismal York team of recent seasons, not enough winners, and, as usual, are perpetually short of a striker, which is wearing very thin now. And, we're defending like amateurs.

Quoted from jock dock tower

Welcome to warped inner mind of Fishy followers.

Four games in and the doom mongers are having a field day. Technical problems take time to smooth out, and guaranteeed success is not always on the cards, but it's a marathon not a sprint. Still expect them to be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. We did clinically take apart the team who are top of the table in the first game, and it will come good again. Give it time ffs.

Didn't see today's game, but was at the 3 first League games and it just looks like we have a few defensive weaknesses* to resolve and we'll be OK. Whilst I didn't think it looked brilliant against Morecambe by any means, they didn't pose us any problems yet they're currently top.

* the sort of lapses that Toto was prone to.

I think a better question ; Is the gap between the conference and league 2 bigger than what most thaught ? On the evidence of Cheltenhams and our start you would have to say yes . I can't see Podge scoring more than 10 in league two this season and I think we needed (need) a better quality of goalscoring striker than him or what we have in the building . Get the right transfers in and we should be fine (Mobile CB, CM and goalscorer) , don't and it could be a difficult season . UTMM Fox

Quoted from Golden fox

I think a better question ; Is the gap between the conference and league 2 bigger than what most thaught ? On the evidence of Cheltenhams and our start you would have to say yes . I can't see Podge scoring more than 10 in league two this season and I think we needed (need) a better quality of goalscoring striker than him or what we have in the building . Get the right transfers in and we should be fine (Mobile CB, CM and goalscorer) , don't and it could be a difficult season . UTMM Fox

Bristol rovers didn't seem struggle yet they looked average against us the season before

Quoted from Grim74

Bristol rovers didn't seem struggle yet they looked average against us the season before

They certainly did struggle in the early part of the season.

Nope......... Arnold , Totes , Tait and Clay could walk into this team any time

I'm not worried at all, from what I've seen we have the nucleus of a good team but we do need a couple of additions though, it's early days and we will improve and adapt, just give it time.

Quoted from fleabag1970

Nope......... Arnold , Totes , Tait and Clay could walk into this team any time

Would they fook. Clay was and is average. Davies is better than Tait, though i was a big fan of Tait. Chambers looks to be on a par with Arnold and Toto i agree with.

Quoted from fleabag1970

Nope......... Arnold , Totes , Tait and Clay could walk into this team any time

Hahaha WUM!

HAHAHA yourself ...... Its just an opinion , it could be right it could be wrong ?? We shall see ....

Yes it's better than last seasons team.

You forget we are playing against a better standard of opposition this season so winning less games doesn't automatically mean we aren't as good a team.

Besides. We finished 4th last year. Hardly ripped up the conference did we. And we were miles off winning the league.

Pearson couldn't even get in the team last season!

And when is Macca going to get some competition for his place Mistake today I believe and he looked decidedly dodgy at Colchester last Tuesday

What wouldn't I give to have Nolan, Amond, Toto and Arnold now.

Also I can't work out how new signings from the Conference and a team who have just been relegated to the conference can be better than what we had (many of whom Hurst said were good enough for league football!)

In my opinion you cannot compare the two. Some people seem to be conveniently forgetting that over 46 games we were only the third best team (I'm not counting that last league result) in the league below so something must have been awry. Toto is for me a massive miss but not at all sure about the others.

Quoted from barralad

In my opinion you cannot compare the two. Some people seem to be conveniently forgetting that over 46 games we were only the third best team (I'm not counting that last league result) in the league below so something must have been awry. Toto is for me a massive miss but not at all sure about the others.

I get your point Barra, but Toto was as error-prone as Shaun/Josh/Boyce. We are at a level where errors get punished. Orient's centre backs looked far stronger than ours today.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I get your point Barra, but Toto was as error-prone as Shaun/Josh/Boyce. We are at a level where errors get punished. Orient's centre backs looked far stronger than ours today.

Yeah I get that actually...it's pure conjecture but perhaps Hurst shared your view! I'm trying not to get carried away but I might be guilty of thinking that at League 2 level every mistake is going to get punished. Perhaps (hopefully ) that isn't the case. Would Toto's speed have allowed him to get back at Palmer today? Moot point...

I think the perception that Toto was error prone is overplayed and most of his errors were corrected by his speed. He is a loss for sure IMO.

Agree with ginny

The losses in order for me go Toto, Nolan, Amond and Arnold.

A few games in and the merchants of doom have surfaced.  I left Gy 33 years ago because of this same negative defeatist attitude.  Sorry to all the positive folk in Gy/Clee but with millstones like these the area will struggle for eternity.  Very sad but thankfully the away support (exiles plus local positive minds) is a breath of fresh air.

Quoted from 139914

A few games in and the merchants of doom have surfaced.  I left Gy 33 years ago because of this same negative defeatist attitude.  Sorry to all the positive folk in Gy/Clee but with millstones like these the area will struggle for eternity.  Very sad but thankfully the away support (exiles plus local positive minds) is a breath of fresh air.

Was in Leeds this time last Saturday and the locals were dancing in the streets after losing to Birmingham.  

Ooh a Red Cross, all the hallmarks of someone who sits on their ar5e all day moaning that dole money isn't keeping pace with inflation.

Expectation levels in Leeds are possibly slightly higher.....

Quoted from 139914

Expectation levels in Leeds are possibly slightly higher.....

That's alright then. Would comment further but i'm about to get off my fat bottom and go spend my dole money on chips and strongbow.

People on the dole shouldn't have the money for takeaways, alcohol, cigarettes etc.  Besides, how's the carpentry trade holding up?  

I would rather we lose match's and be near the bottom of the table now than at the end of the season,

There is plenty of time to put things right,

BUT

We are in need of a proven league goal scorer a commanding centre half,

Plus a quality keeper to push Macca,

If we can get all three soon, we will do ok or even better.

Quoted from 139914

People on the dole shouldn't have the money for takeaways, alcohol, cigarettes etc.  Besides, how's the carpentry trade holding up?  

Can't complain.  

About the same as last year in my opinion but should have been better by keeping hold of Amond! Also signing  better midfielders. It does raise an eyebrow signing three players from relegated teams! Too many new players.
We are definitely in for a battle to stay up but I reckon we will manage it just about!
Those who are predicting play offs or better need to come down from Cloud Cuckooland.

Quoted from Grantley

The losses in order for me go Toto, Nolan, Amond and Arnold.

I never even consider Nolan because I never thought we had an earthly of signing him......rather than Paul letting him go

Strange really, Nolan slated by former clubs fans yet he was excellent for us.  Trouble with loans are that they put players in the shop window.  You either take a gamble after a couple of games or risk losing them if they do well.  He was never our player, we helped him and he helped us.  Let's move on.

Quoted from jock dock tower

Welcome to warped inner mind of Fishy followers.

Four games in and the doom mongers are having a field day. Technical problems take time to smooth out, and guaranteeed success is not always on the cards, but it's a marathon not a sprint. Still expect them to be there or thereabouts at the end of the season. We did clinically take apart the team who are top of the table in the first game, and it will come good again. Give it time ffs.

Well said!  

No way am I worried at this point, rather get this form out the way with now then start picking the results up in fairness you don't miss amond we are still scoring goals just toto and Nolan we are missing personally, and I think we are missing Mcallister in front of the back four tbh

Quoted from 139914

Strange really, Nolan slated by former clubs fans yet he was excellent for us.  Trouble with loans are that they put players in the shop window.  You either take a gamble after a couple of games or risk losing them if they do well.  He was never our player, we helped him and he helped us.  Let's move on.

Nolan wasn't a loanee was he? I thought he signed a deal until the end of the season.

You risk losing every player because their contracts expire

Quoted from Stranger in the Park

So many of new comers have disappointed it begs the question

Better than last season? Yes, but incomplete to hold their own at this level.

We can't really answer this question until after the transfer window closes can we? The squad/team isn't a finished article yet and at this point last season we hadn't made the best start either and didn't have players like Nolan in the squad. IMO hurst has replaced certain individuals with better quality but then others he hasn't yet replaced.

Ask the question again in a few weeks.

Apart from one or two players, this team WILL eventually be better than last seasons, they just need time to gel. Cheltenham won the league by about 15 points last season, and have kept nearly all the same players, and have hardly been pulling up any trees.

I've only seen us once at Wycombe but it was clear that day hurst is going to have to be given more £ to improve his first choice 11 because we're going to need more quality , 2 decent CMs are a must because berrett and summerfield look players who got relegated cos they weren't good enough .

Berrett looks wasted out wide to me, needs to play central midfield with someone who can sit, I could see McAllister and Berrett working well together, Kayden and Omar look like they could work together but we are in serious need of some pace or football league experience defensively, someone to partner Pearson.

Quoted from cmackenzie4

I'm not worried at all, from what I've seen we have the nucleus of a good team but we do need a couple of additions though, it's early days and we will improve and adapt, just give it time.

Its gutting though when you see the mistakes that cost us today on the ch 5 football show.Hopefully this is will be nipped in the bud and it wont happen to often

Quoted from 139914

People on the dole shouldn't have the money for takeaways, alcohol, cigarettes etc.  Besides, how's the carpentry trade holding up?  

I hope this board isn't becoming communist

Quoted from 139914

People on the dole shouldn't have the money for takeaways, alcohol, cigarettes etc.  Besides, how's the carpentry trade holding up?  

It's obvious who he sends his sawdust to. You ought to be in the Wizard of Oz

Whilst suggestions are made regarding signing new players, it's not that easy.
I would imagine that most of better players than our squad are already fixed up.

Quoted from Golden fox

I think a better question ; Is the gap between the conference and league 2 bigger than what most thaught ? On the evidence of Cheltenhams and our start you would have to say yes . I can't see Podge scoring more than 10 in league two this season and I think we needed (need) a better quality of goalscoring striker than him or what we have in the building . Get the right transfers in and we should be fine (Mobile CB, CM and goalscorer) , don't and it could be a difficult season . UTMM Fox

Yes we are finding it hard too at the moment. Holman and Wright have not yet scored a goal between them.

They were knocking them in for fun last season but aren't getting the time/space you get when you are playing against plasterers and postmen every other week.

Two of the three draws we have had we should have lost. Could be a long hard season.

It's a completely different side, even our approach to games is different.  Last season was about pummelling sides who came to shut us out, this year we're more technical and definitely more athletic.  

Would the 11 who played yesterday beat the 11 who ended last season?  Probably.  Does that mean they're automatically good enough to be at the very least comfortable in this league?  Absolutely not.  Based on a couple of cup games we seem to have developed this mentality that the gap between the Conference and League Two hasn't moved in the 6 years we were absent.   Fewer teams are jumping from the Conference into League Two and succeeding straight away, that should give us the biggest indication of the gulf in class.

Last season we were miles off winning the league, we can dress it up all we like but we were fourth best in probably the worst Conference of the six seasons we were down there.  We got it right when it mattered and put in two of our best performances of the season when it mattered (well one and a half performances).  That team, as much as I loved that team, was never ever going to rattle through League Two on momentum alone.  It needed a massive quality upgrade.  

Losing Toto created a massive hole at the back.  We lack his pace, badly.  But for all his pace he had errors in him and we're already seeing that you don't get second chances at this level.  Ollie Palmer's goal was a classic example of the difference from last season.  Pearson was outstanding all game, got his footing wrong for a second....GOAL.  No chance to recover.  Game over.  That was the only mistake the defence made all game. McKeown's error was completely out of character and I'm afraid has to go down as one of those things.

Davies and Tait are probably on par, at a push I would take Tait at the minute but I think I would prefer Davies when he's got a proper licence to go forward, i.e a holding midfielder covering him and the other fullback.  Andrew is an upgrade on Robertson/Horwood.  Quicker, strong, more attacking, better delivery with crosses.  

In midfield we've upgraded beyond belief.  McAllister, Disley, Berrett and Summerfield are the strongest midfield options we've had for god knows how long.  Last season we had Craig Clay who was a 1 in 3 player in there to break play up alongside Craig Disley who was playing the deepest role of his career.  It's no wonder we didn't score many goals.  We rectified this by bringing in Jon Nolan who, as good as he was individually, completely upset the balance of the midfield and we got dominated by really poor sides as a result.  We're winning second balls now, we're carrying the ball forward from midfield and we're actually passing forward rather than to the side all the time.

Up front - that's the concern.  Vernon, Bogle and Jackson all look like they will be good as an alternative to a front pairing.  Someone to mix it up or offer something fresh from the bench.  None of them look like strikers you want to pin your season on.  Vernon of the three should be the one to start every game because he makes it stick, the other two need someone to work of.  The concern for me is that we've got two guys who've not played played in the league before this month and are making a bit step-up and a guy who isn't a renowned goalscorer either.  

I think we'll be fine, more than fine but we need to find our feet fast.  Yesterday when we conceded the first goal we just rolled over and accepted it.  Even in the final five minutes when we should have been really chasing the game we looked flat.  If there's a soft belly it needs sorting.

I don't think the formation is helping us.  There was a big clamour to return to 4-4-2 after a limp pre-season and, in my opinion, Hurst should have ignored it.  The striker looked too isolated in pre-season so it should have been about changing things in and around the lone striker, not the whole formation.  
Players were brought in to play a 4-3-3 (or whatever variation you want to use) and we're now trying to shoehorn them into a 4-4-2.  Andrew and Davies are wing-backs.  They're not traditional full backs and they want to get forward at every opportunity.  McAllister (I think Disley could do the job too) sitting in front of the two centre backs allowed them to do that in pre-season.  Now it's a 4-4-2 they haven't got that luxury.  We've four central midfielders who I think all look excellent. But we can only play 2.  That means Berrett is shunted out wide only to cut inside all the time, whilst we've got two wingers who want to run like intercourse at their fullbacks.

Whatever formation we go with I want Hurst to go for games.  Bolinarwa and Browne have that asset that defenders hate, at whatever level you're at, pure pace.  Their pace along with that of Jackson should be what we're attacking teams with.  I thought Chambers had an excellent game yesterday but all his best work was done inside, same for Berrett.  If we're going to play 4-4-2 you've got to have wingers who are going to stretch the opposition defence.  Yesterday was exactly the same as last season, we became too narrow far too early.

It's hard to tell but we certainly miss our better players that have left and we clearly have weakness through the spine of the team at the minute. That said I thought yeasterday was the best we'd played this season barring the howlers.
Regarding the players, is it any surprise we are dipping in the bargain bin? We couldn't manage a budget to challenge for the title in the conference for 6 seasons, we were consistently a play off team with play off budget under Hurst. I would be interested to see how our budget compares to the other teams in this league. It's encouraging to see that Hurst has spent some of his budget on potential with Browne and Bolarinwa. It is always going to be a challange when you are picking the corn from the crap of relegated sides. I have every faith in Hurst to make the best of it and make us compete. People surprised at the standard and origin of the signings need to be questioning the budget. How competitive is the budget and what were the alternatives to relegated players and unknowns?

Anyone saying that Toto is a lot better than Gowling or Pearson need to look at Hartlepools highlights from last night. Granted he scuffed a goal in for himself but was unbelievably caught out for both of the goals they conceded. Even though he has so much pace he is always so slow to react which I guess is what his pace makes up for sometimes. We definitely haven't replaced him with a pacey centre back but I still have faith we can

Quoted from jaygy

Anyone saying that Toto is a lot better than Gowling or Pearson need to look at Hartlepools highlights from last night. Granted he scuffed a goal in for himself but was unbelievably caught out for both of the goals they conceded. Even though he has so much pace he is always so slow to react which I guess is what his pace makes up for sometimes. We definitely haven't replaced him with a pacey centre back but I still have faith we can

Reading the Hartlepool forum they all seem to think Toto is excellent but they aren't sure what Podge offers?

Quoted from diehardmariner

  
I think we'll be fine, more than fine but we need to find our feet fast.  Yesterday when we conceded the first goal we just rolled over and accepted it.  Even in the final five minutes when we should have been really chasing the game we looked flat.  If there's a soft belly it needs sorting.

.

Great post.

The above though concerns me.Character is a big thing in football and collectively like you have pointed out we were found wanting in this Saturday.Hurst seems to have his hands tied somewhat though as money dictates. Eg ideally you would be signing players with ability and good mentality. Hope Hurst has the character to change this hence improve players reactions when we concede in games  eg some are naturally better man managers than others.Hurst in fairness whilst not being the most passionate or vocal seems to have a calm allure and some players will respond to this better than others.For me listening to some of the other managers speak though I would prefer to sign for him as opposed to others in this league if good enough to play the game.He  even said it himself  after we got promoted with the Amond affair eg he is big on trust. Sentiments which i like

Quoted from Cloudy

Reading the Hartlepool forum they all seem to think Toto is excellent but they aren't sure what Podge offers?

That's because Toto's a quality player and Podge is a Conference player at the end of the day.

Quoted from Mariner_09

That's because Toto's a quality player and Podge is a Conference player at the end of the day.

I'd be much happier seeing padraig Amond on the end of Ben Davies wicked delivery than anyone we have in the squad now.

Quoted from headingly_mariner

I'd be much happier seeing padraig Amond on the end of Ben Davies wicked delivery than anyone we have in the squad now.

This

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's a completely different side, even our approach to games is different.  Last season was about pummelling sides who came to shut us out, this year we're more technical and definitely more athletic.  

Would the 11 who played yesterday beat the 11 who ended last season?  Probably.  Does that mean they're automatically good enough to be at the very least comfortable in this league?  Absolutely not.  Based on a couple of cup games we seem to have developed this mentality that the gap between the Conference and League Two hasn't moved in the 6 years we were absent.   Fewer teams are jumping from the Conference into League Two and succeeding straight away, that should give us the biggest indication of the gulf in class.

Last season we were miles off winning the league, we can dress it up all we like but we were fourth best in probably the worst Conference of the six seasons we were down there.  We got it right when it mattered and put in two of our best performances of the season when it mattered (well one and a half performances).  That team, as much as I loved that team, was never ever going to rattle through League Two on momentum alone.  It needed a massive quality upgrade.  

Losing Toto created a massive hole at the back.  We lack his pace, badly.  But for all his pace he had errors in him and we're already seeing that you don't get second chances at this level.  Ollie Palmer's goal was a classic example of the difference from last season.  Pearson was outstanding all game, got his footing wrong for a second....GOAL.  No chance to recover.  Game over.  That was the only mistake the defence made all game. McKeown's error was completely out of character and I'm afraid has to go down as one of those things.

Davies and Tait are probably on par, at a push I would take Tait at the minute but I think I would prefer Davies when he's got a proper licence to go forward, i.e a holding midfielder covering him and the other fullback.  Andrew is an upgrade on Robertson/Horwood.  Quicker, strong, more attacking, better delivery with crosses.  

In midfield we've upgraded beyond belief.  McAllister, Disley, Berrett and Summerfield are the strongest midfield options we've had for god knows how long.  Last season we had Craig Clay who was a 1 in 3 player in there to break play up alongside Craig Disley who was playing the deepest role of his career.  It's no wonder we didn't score many goals.  We rectified this by bringing in Jon Nolan who, as good as he was individually, completely upset the balance of the midfield and we got dominated by really poor sides as a result.  We're winning second balls now, we're carrying the ball forward from midfield and we're actually passing forward rather than to the side all the time.

Up front - that's the concern.  Vernon, Bogle and Jackson all look like they will be good as an alternative to a front pairing.  Someone to mix it up or offer something fresh from the bench.  None of them look like strikers you want to pin your season on.  Vernon of the three should be the one to start every game because he makes it stick, the other two need someone to work of.  The concern for me is that we've got two guys who've not played played in the league before this month and are making a bit step-up and a guy who isn't a renowned goalscorer either.  

I think we'll be fine, more than fine but we need to find our feet fast.  Yesterday when we conceded the first goal we just rolled over and accepted it.  Even in the final five minutes when we should have been really chasing the game we looked flat.  If there's a soft belly it needs sorting.

I don't think the formation is helping us.  There was a big clamour to return to 4-4-2 after a limp pre-season and, in my opinion, Hurst should have ignored it.  The striker looked too isolated in pre-season so it should have been about changing things in and around the lone striker, not the whole formation.  
Players were brought in to play a 4-3-3 (or whatever variation you want to use) and we're now trying to shoehorn them into a 4-4-2.  Andrew and Davies are wing-backs.  They're not traditional full backs and they want to get forward at every opportunity.  McAllister (I think Disley could do the job too) sitting in front of the two centre backs allowed them to do that in pre-season.  Now it's a 4-4-2 they haven't got that luxury.  We've four central midfielders who I think all look excellent. But we can only play 2.  That means Berrett is shunted out wide only to cut inside all the time, whilst we've got two wingers who want to run like intercourse at their fullbacks.

Whatever formation we go with I want Hurst to go for games.  Bolinarwa and Browne have that asset that defenders hate, at whatever level you're at, pure pace.  Their pace along with that of Jackson should be what we're attacking teams with.  I thought Chambers had an excellent game yesterday but all his best work was done inside, same for Berrett.  If we're going to play 4-4-2 you've got to have wingers who are going to stretch the opposition defence.  Yesterday was exactly the same as last season, we became too narrow far too early.

Excellent post is that.

In answer to the OP, yes.

However, it does look like PH's plan was to replace Amond with LJL, which leaves me dismayed. And the fact that he didn't have a plan B when LJL got injured, leaves me even more dismayed.

Having said all that, I have no doubt PH will rectify this if people at least give him until the end of September.

I think the midfielders as a group are better footballers than last season and we passed it around quite nicely at times on Saturday, but we still lack any real pace in the middle which means our options are a bit limited there. It also means that we're not particularly well-suited for 4-3-3, IMO, because I think you need more mobility in the middle with just 3 midfielders there. Many of the best things that Nolan did last season came because he had a little burst of pace to take him clear of the opposition midfield which gave him other options to play.

It still seems pretty strange to me that Hurst's attacking signings seem to have been made to give us the option of playing a 4-3-3 or similar variant, yet again we're one-paced in the middle. Both Berett and Summerfield have some ability but are pretty lightweight and tend to go AWOL for large spells of the game - on Saturday, Summerfield was anonymous for much of the first half and in the second, Berrett barely touched the ball before he went off. I'm not convinced that the midfield is strong enough with both playing.

I think the defenders we have are all decent enough, providing they can hit some better form and cut out the errors but agree a bit more pace in the centre of the defence would be useful. Gowling probably the quickest of our central defenders and I'd say he is certainly quick enough, but he seems to have made a lot of errors already this season and is almost panicking at times. I like the look of both of the full-backs, going forward especially (though I think Tait is better defensively than Davies) and both have long throws and a good cross on them, something which we badly missed last season. It just seems a bit perverse that we don't have anybody up front with the height to make use of some long throws! (Though Bogle actually did better than usual in that respect on Saturday).

Hopefully the lack of aerial ability is something Hurst will eventually rectify with a new striker which is badly needed.

Are we sure that Hurst signed players to play 4-3-3, or are we just surmising that? I've never heard him say that and he seems a 4-4-2 man to me, with the odd dabble in other formations, usually quickly discarded.

Quoted from ginnywings

Are we sure that Hurst signed players to play 4-3-3, or are we just surmising that? I've never heard him say that and he seems a 4-4-2 man to me, with the odd dabble in other formations, usually quickly discarded.

We only have three wide players and six central midfielders. Seems an odd choice of numbers if you were looking at playing 4-4-2.

I personally think Hurst has always hankered after 4-3-3 though the only time it was ever tried for any period of time was when Shorty/Shouty took over and started playing Connell a bit out on the left. Ever since then, we've tended to end up with a 4-4-2-ish formation though many of the wingers signed tended to be more attacking wideish players rather than out and out wingers and we've often seen central midfielders played in lopsided 'wide' positions. We've never had the mobility or flexibility in the central midfield to make a success of 4-3-3 which always seems a bit odd. The lack of pace in the middle has always surprised me as well, truth be told (thinking Kerr, Thanoj, McLaughlin, Clay and Brown to some degree). When Disley has consistently been our quickest central-midfielder even though he's well into his thirties, you can see why we're not the most dynamic team.

We seem to have a bit more pace up top/out wide this season with Bolarinwa and the lad from Aldershot and Chambers isn't slow, but nothing similar in the middle of the field.

Both Venney and Clifton look to be decent ball players from the little I've seen of either, but I do have to wonder if they will get a look in without a more physically imposing player alongside them helping to do the donkey-work? I certainly couldn't see either of them anchoring midfield alongside the likes of Summerfield or Berrett, for example.

I do wonder how much of it is that Hurst has thought how he wants to play, signed half the players to do so, but then been unable to get the missing pieces? Despite the variations we've seen in pre-season, it really does appear that we tend to end up with 4-4-2 almost by default. Nothing wrong with that formation, of course, but we're just not that great with it at the moment.

The Team is not better than last seasons YET.!  We have a reasonable team of individuals but not yet a gelled team. Time will tell but i get the feeling one or two bad attitudes will shine through soon.
Hurst usually offs the guys with attitudes reasonably quickly but it is difficult to see whats going to replace them.

Vose looks like the first to show and if judging by what York fans say(all 10 of them) Summerfield performances will nose dive as they say he started well then got complacent and lazy.

Quoted from monkeyboy

Vose looks like the first to show and if judging by what York fans say(all 10 of them) Summerfield performances will nose dive as they say he started well then got complacent and lazy.

Nose dive from current levels. Not sure that is possible!

i have said this before you can NOT replace team spirit, team spirit will overcome ability time and time again. The squad last year wanted to fight for each other week in week out and i am not seeing that from this current bunch.

Not yet !

Quoted from Rhys_Mariners

i have said this before you can NOT replace team spirit, team spirit will overcome ability time and time again. The squad last year wanted to fight for each other week in week out and i am not seeing that from this current bunch.

Not sure that a team with so much Conference quality had that much team spirit week in, week out. They only finished a moderate 4th.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Not sure that a team with so much Conference quality had that much team spirit week in, week out. They only finished a moderate 4th.

Exactly. The same 'team spirit' last season that most people on here thought had no chance of promotion even up until half time in the play off leg. We need to give this new team time to build team spirit and gel. It certainly isn't going to happen after 5 games.
UTM

We will know better when we play Cheltenham as they are largely unchanged from last season

Obviously couldn't happen but if the two sides played each other then i think last seasons side would win,helped by a better central defence with the pace of n'siala,nolan in midfield would be all over this midfield we have at present, and a natural finisher in amond who in turn helping to bring the best out of bogle.

Having said that this seasons squad look technically better players and given time should come good as long as they are played in their natural positions and given support by us the fans.

I think another priority is to get in a keeper who can push macca having a reserve goalkeeper trainer/coach on the bench etc is no good for him at the moment,Macca automatically knows he will be starting every game and has lately been off the boil with a few mistakes great guy and keeper but in this league you have to be at the top of your game and currently he isn't as most would agree Keeper striker and quick centre half will hopefully come in this week to give the team a final push into the top half of the table and hopefully get a good run going UTM !!!

Individuals yes team not yet

Quoted from diehardmariner

It's a completely different side, even our approach to games is different.  Last season was about pummelling sides who came to shut us out, this year we're more technical and definitely more athletic.  

Would the 11 who played yesterday beat the 11 who ended last season?  Probably.  Does that mean they're automatically good enough to be at the very least comfortable in this league?  Absolutely not.  Based on a couple of cup games we seem to have developed this mentality that the gap between the Conference and League Two hasn't moved in the 6 years we were absent.   Fewer teams are jumping from the Conference into League Two and succeeding straight away, that should give us the biggest indication of the gulf in class.

Last season we were miles off winning the league, we can dress it up all we like but we were fourth best in probably the worst Conference of the six seasons we were down there.  We got it right when it mattered and put in two of our best performances of the season when it mattered (well one and a half performances).  That team, as much as I loved that team, was never ever going to rattle through League Two on momentum alone.  It needed a massive quality upgrade.  

Losing Toto created a massive hole at the back.  We lack his pace, badly.  But for all his pace he had errors in him and we're already seeing that you don't get second chances at this level.  Ollie Palmer's goal was a classic example of the difference from last season.  Pearson was outstanding all game, got his footing wrong for a second....GOAL.  No chance to recover.  Game over.  That was the only mistake the defence made all game. McKeown's error was completely out of character and I'm afraid has to go down as one of those things.

Davies and Tait are probably on par, at a push I would take Tait at the minute but I think I would prefer Davies when he's got a proper licence to go forward, i.e a holding midfielder covering him and the other fullback.  Andrew is an upgrade on Robertson/Horwood.  Quicker, strong, more attacking, better delivery with crosses.  

In midfield we've upgraded beyond belief.  McAllister, Disley, Berrett and Summerfield are the strongest midfield options we've had for god knows how long.  Last season we had Craig Clay who was a 1 in 3 player in there to break play up alongside Craig Disley who was playing the deepest role of his career.  It's no wonder we didn't score many goals.  We rectified this by bringing in Jon Nolan who, as good as he was individually, completely upset the balance of the midfield and we got dominated by really poor sides as a result.  We're winning second balls now, we're carrying the ball forward from midfield and we're actually passing forward rather than to the side all the time.

Up front - that's the concern.  Vernon, Bogle and Jackson all look like they will be good as an alternative to a front pairing.  Someone to mix it up or offer something fresh from the bench.  None of them look like strikers you want to pin your season on.  Vernon of the three should be the one to start every game because he makes it stick, the other two need someone to work of.  The concern for me is that we've got two guys who've not played played in the league before this month and are making a bit step-up and a guy who isn't a renowned goalscorer either.  

I think we'll be fine, more than fine but we need to find our feet fast.  Yesterday when we conceded the first goal we just rolled over and accepted it.  Even in the final five minutes when we should have been really chasing the game we looked flat.  If there's a soft belly it needs sorting.

I don't think the formation is helping us.  There was a big clamour to return to 4-4-2 after a limp pre-season and, in my opinion, Hurst should have ignored it.  The striker looked too isolated in pre-season so it should have been about changing things in and around the lone striker, not the whole formation.  
Players were brought in to play a 4-3-3 (or whatever variation you want to use) and we're now trying to shoehorn them into a 4-4-2.  Andrew and Davies are wing-backs.  They're not traditional full backs and they want to get forward at every opportunity.  McAllister (I think Disley could do the job too) sitting in front of the two centre backs allowed them to do that in pre-season.  Now it's a 4-4-2 they haven't got that luxury.  We've four central midfielders who I think all look excellent. But we can only play 2.  That means Berrett is shunted out wide only to cut inside all the time, whilst we've got two wingers who want to run like intercourse at their fullbacks.

Whatever formation we go with I want Hurst to go for games.  Bolinarwa and Browne have that asset that defenders hate, at whatever level you're at, pure pace.  Their pace along with that of Jackson should be what we're attacking teams with.  I thought Chambers had an excellent game yesterday but all his best work was done inside, same for Berrett.  If we're going to play 4-4-2 you've got to have wingers who are going to stretch the opposition defence.  Yesterday was exactly the same as last season, we became too narrow far too early.

This*****


Great read....