Another "never say die" performance on the road. Wilson's goal was beautifully crafted and only an excellent cross and finish got them back into it. We comfortably matched them first half but Clifton's departure at half time (presumably with an injury) left us a bit light defensively for the second 45. Second half was backs to the wall but helped by Cartwriht's excellent handling (and one great save), and some truly woeful finishing Tharme, Rogers and Hume stood tall. Man of the match for me though was Thompson. He was everywhere and found himself targetted throughout by the opposition with no support from yet another poor referee. Could have sneaked it in added time but I'll take a point all day.
The aim of argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.
Another "never say die" performance on the road. Wilson's goal was beautifully crafted and only an excellent cross and finish got them back into it. We comfortably matched them first half but Clifton's departure at half time (presumably with an injury) left us a bit light defensively for the second 45. Second half was backs to the wall but helped by Cartwriht's excellent handling (and one great save), and some truly woeful finishing Tharme, Rogers and Hume stood tall. Man of the match for me though was Thompson. He was everywhere and found himself targetted throughout by the opposition with no support from yet another poor referee. Could have sneaked it in added time but I'll take a point all day.
Pretty much how I saw it ( on the telly ) Thompson did well against that horrible little prickk who scored for them who constantly fouled him
On the M25. That was the epitome of a hard won point Thank god they don't have a goalscorer! There were some epic duels , tharme v Hawkins, lapslie v Thompson n the ref was happy for them to battle it out. Fair play to Artell for his h.t. subs. We were getting really badly stretched by their constant switching of play to the excellent wide players of Hutton n William's. Eisa gave Hutton something to think about defensively n there were far less of his wicked deliveries. The back 3 were again superb n solid. But the outstanding performers were the 2 battlers in central midfield. Thompson got thru another barnstorming 90 mins but motm was Green, who was like a different player some great skill n passing, I'm struggling to remember if he made a bad pass. Obikwe n holohan had v good 1st half
Another game gone without conceding points to our rivals n the unbeaten run continues, plus the passing/ offensive play was a lot better. A good result n performance, backed as usual by fervent away support
I’m probably being quite harsh but I found myself getting a bit frustrated at times watching that. It’s probably more of a sign of how much we’ve improved lately though.
Our goal was wonderfully worked and came from the much maligned tactic of playing out from the back, we cut straight through them and in Wilson you have somebody who you always back to finish a 1v1. Conceding so quickly was frustrating given we’ve fielded tonnes of those types of crosses in the past few weeks with no issues whatsoever. After that, Obikwu & Holohan miss excellent chances after both struggled to get a decent foothold in the game (Gav got an assist but was otherwise poor).
Second half we switched up and I actually thought it worked, just not in the way I expected. It seemed to reduce the number of crosses entering our box, but did restrict us going forward. That was more due to Eisa & Arthur taking 30 mins to get into the bloody game, neither of them could trap a bag of cement when the first came on and it set us back massively. They both grew into it at the end and you felt like we might score at the end.
Tharne, Rodgers, Thompson & Wilson were excellent. I love Wilson and think he can be a huge player for us next year, I still think it’s fair to say he’s underrated still. He’s incredibly strong and his finishing is excellent.
I think we’re almost there points wise, FGR & Colchester probably need 4 wins from their last 8 and 10 respectively to have a realistic chance of beating our points tally and that’d mean us only taking 5 points from our last 9 games. Credit to the players and Artell again, we’ve picked up just when we needed to and 6 unbeaten is no mean feat given the results we had in the 6 before that.
A good point we should have lost second half probably .
We sort of looked to revert to a more passing /expansive idea at half time with Arthur /Eisa on the flanks it didn't work at all and showed why the first half standard 5-3-2 setup is a must until we are safe . I suppose if it had worked and we had won Artell would have been lauded . Lost and he would probably have taken some again.
Cartwright very good again as was the backline , Thompson is just a machine - even though small so so strong - it was funny to see once or twice their more lightweight players frustrations at how easily he shrugged them off the ball; very glad we have him for 2 years.
Wilson is one who needs retaining as is Obikwu(on another loan if possible ) ; we could be left with a less problematic position going into next season .
I really fancy us next week , Wrexham are an ugly team who win but have stopped doing so lately ; we have become a more nasty team that don't lose lately - big big chance to almost secure our safety and move forward.
On the M25. That was the epitome of a hard won point
Eisa gave Hutton something to think about defensively n there were far less of his wicked deliveries. The back 3 were again superb n solid. But the outstanding performers were the 2 battlers in central midfield. Thompson got thru another barnstorming 90 mins but motm was Green, who was like a different player some great skill n passing, I'm struggling to remember if he made a bad pass. Obikwe n holohan had v good 1st A good result n performance, backed as usual by fervent away support
Funny how fans see games differently, I watched the game on tv and thought both Holohan and Green were really poor and neither of them has any pace when trying to run back into position. Oh well we got a much deserved point and two more wins should see us smiling instead of cringing.
In essence loved the game having been at the Wimbledon and Sutton games too. Noticed a more determined motivated team striving for a win. Again for me Harvey Cartright coming on leaps and bounds, IMO Man of the Match again keeping out the Gillingham attempts. Makes next week's Wrexham game looking interesting. UTM
An Exile and Proud !! UTM Mariners Trust Life Member. In the words of my Uncle Fred "You can take the man outta of Grimsby BUT you can't take the Grimsby! Out the man!"
Contrasting weeks against 2 very different teams. Last week against a limited Sutton we should’ve had the points and this weekend a decent gills teams gave us a much harder test and we came out with a point which was hard fought but maybe a bit fortunate. But our battling performance is good enough for me . Points like this away from home will keep us up . Difficult to chose a mom as there were a few contenders but I’d go for Thame as he had an awkward lump of a striker to look after . Big strong and mobile who also looked like he wanted DTs shirt for the 90 mins . A weaker player would’ve been bullied but DT kept him under control. Well done Cartwright, a lot of crosses to deal with from Gills and he never looked like he would miss one. We need to be trying to get him back for another season as he’s only going to improve as he gains experience. The difference in the team’s performance from a few weeks ago should be praised .
Final mention to the Gillingham pies ,, even if they were delivered late they were epic . Definitely worth the wait .
Funny how fans see games differently, I watched the game on tv and thought both Holohan and Green were really poor and neither of them has any pace when trying to run back into position. Oh well we got a much deserved point and two more wins should see us smiling instead of cringing.
Same here. But I must add that we can't head, or pass, i.e. the basics. But when we get it right it works, pity we just gave away our lead so meekly and cheaply. But we got a point, 6 games without defeat, onto Wrexham who are misfiring of late. UTM.
Same here. But I must add that we can't head, or pass, i.e. the basics. But when we get it right it works, pity we just gave away our lead so meekly and cheaply. But we got a point, 6 games without defeat, onto Wrexham who are misfiring of late. UTM.
I will say with Holahan his delivery from the right channel is very good , there were 3 or 4 times when he could have delivered but favoured to give the simple pass - I would be telling him to cross it everytime he gets in that area of the pitch if I was Big D .
I will say with Holahan his delivery from the right channel is very good , there were 3 or 4 times when he could have delivered but favoured to give the simple pass - I would be telling him to cross it everytime he gets in that area of the pitch if I was Big D .
The assumption is that there have to be targets in the penno area, and if there are none? Our team isn't a team. There is a goalkeeper, backs, midfield and forwards, but a well-oiled synchromesh gearbox its is not. There are patches, like the goal, which is great, then its errrrrrr? There are hotspots of good football, Cartwright is killing the corners by plucking balls out of the air, and the backs are, mostly, keeping the opposition quiet, but it is patchy, and non-consistent everywhere else. Tharme, Hume, and Thompson are making a difference, but Clifton Mullarkey and even Holohan, have off days i.e. we never peak as a team altogether. When we celebrate draws as we used to do wins, you just know the next 9 games are going to be a collective purgatory for the fans. UTM
Looking at the table a win for Morecambe takes them just outside the play-off places, also noticed that out of the 12 teams above outside the play-off places, only 2 have lost less than us, its the amount of draws that put us in the position we are in. However it might draws that ulimately keeps us up, just shows its fine margins.
Gillingham are lowest scorers in the league 36 goals in total, but have 16 wins, 10 of them are 1-0 wins and only 1 point from a play-off spot.
All this talk about the Grimsby way, since I have been watching town, since the late seventies, what has been the Grimsby way?
Would I take 10 1-0 wins over an entertaining lost, Yes, because its points that count, I would go home happy because we have won.
We drew with Notts County 5-5 was I entertained yes, but it was a poor game of football, did we get 3 points NO.
Paul Hurst set us up to be difficult to beat first, then we move away from that this season to the "Grimsby way".
The last six games Artell has changed his tactics and we have 10 points to show for it.
I actually enjoyed the home game against MK Dons over the Notts County game.
The assumption is that there have to be targets in the penno area, and if there are none? Our team isn't a team. There is a goalkeeper, backs, midfield and forwards, but a well-oiled synchromesh gearbox its is not. There are patches, like the goal, which is great, then its errrrrrr? There are hotspots of good football, Cartwright is killing the corners by plucking balls out of the air, and the backs are, mostly, keeping the opposition quiet, but it is patchy, and non-consistent everywhere else. Tharme, Hume, and Thompson are making a difference, but Clifton Mullarkey and even Holohan, have off days i.e. we never peak as a team altogether. When we celebrate draws as we used to do wins, you just know the next 9 games are going to be a collective purgatory for the fans. UTM
That's incredibly harsh on Mullarkey, who since moving to the RCB role has looked just as competent as the other 2 centre halves. We definitely need 2 more mobile central midfielders, similar to the 2 that ran the midfield for MK Dons last week, to compliment Thompson and so we retain possession for longer periods of the game.
"You take sugar?" "No thank you turkish, I'm sweet enough"
Only seen 2 games this season (Sutton and Gillingham) but seeing the support and togetherness of the players, supporters and Artell and the end of the game was impressive - especially given the vibe on this forum 4 weeks ago (of which I was also part of).
Holi has been great at times, but sometimes is found wanting. Think it depends on his expectations for next season and what his contract costs. Seems like a lovely bloke I would like to keep but we don’t have all the info….
Holi has been great at times, but sometimes is found wanting. Think it depends on his expectations for next season and what his contract costs. Seems like a lovely bloke I would like to keep but we don’t have all the info….
He’s too old, and not good enough. I don’t even know what the argument is. We need to take sentiment out of it.
He’s too old, and not good enough. I don’t even know what the argument is. We need to take sentiment out of it.
Give over!!...he's 32, and set up yesterdays goal, he works his nuts off every game, and I'll say this now, offers more offensively than Clifton, is more composed and passes the ball better. Talk about being a drama queen, you do understand we are GTFC not Barcelona and our pool of players will always have its limitations. Gav H is solid squad player, I'd certainly not be against him being offered another 12 month contract.
He’s too old, and not good enough. I don’t even know what the argument is. We need to take sentiment out of it.
Think you’re right. Although we have enjoyed an uplift in results over the past six games little of this is down to the quality of our midfield. In reality neither Holohan or Green have enough stamina or pace to play in, what we hope, will be a more successful L2 side next season. Both are good professionals and 100% effort but we need much better to progress. Other than Thompson, given Hunt and Khouri’s poor seasons, we probably need at least four new midfielders for next season.
Give over!!...he's 32, and set up yesterdays goal, he works his nuts off every game, and I'll say this now, offers more offensively than Clifton, is more composed and passes the ball better. Talk about being a drama queen, you do understand we are GTFC not Barcelona and our pool of players will always have its limitations. Gav H is solid squad player, I'd certainly not be against him being offered another 12 month contract.
This is all about options and I appreciate yours. But I do disagree with it,
Think you’re right. Although we have enjoyed an uplift in results over the past six games little of this is down to the quality of our midfield. In reality neither Holohan or Green have enough stamina or pace to play in, what we hope, will be a more successful L2 side next season. Both are good professionals and 100% effort but we need much better to progress. Other than Thompson, given Hunt and Khouri’s poor seasons, we probably need at least four new midfielders for next season.
I’m not replying because you agreed with me, but because I think midfield is ALWAYS our weakness. The opposition always have at least one player we’d kill for.
Thomson is our battler next season - we need two skilful playmakers.
And before someone says “we’re in L2!!”, everyone else finds them……
This is all about options and I appreciate yours. But I do disagree with it,
Great debate, though!
How many times has it been said on here “we can do better”? Actually we often can’t. It was said about Max and Orsi who have played 36 and 35 games this season, and they could have a made a big difference to our season. Both Gav and Green are highly committed squad members who also have a relatively good track record with injuries. For me, it depends on their expectations, if they want to be starters every week then they should move on, but if they are happy at GTFC as squad players they could be worth another 12 months. Especially if on relatively modest wages. It depends on the clubs view on Khouri though - if we kept both that could be a blocker on his progress.
How many times has it been said on here “we can do better”? Actually we often can’t. It was said about Max and Orsi who have played 36 and 35 games this season, and they could have a made a big difference to our season. Both Gav and Green are highly committed squad members who also have a relatively good track record with injuries. For me, it depends on their expectations, if they want to be starters every week then they should move on, but if they are happy at GTFC as squad players they could be worth another 12 months. Especially if on relatively modest wages. It depends on the clubs view on Khouri though - if we kept both that could be a blocker on his progress.
Personally I was undecided on Crocombe, but adamant that Orsi should stay. We were losing McAtee and Taylor, so keeping Orsi would have kept some continuity.
Next season, it’s worth pointing out that Rose, Wilson and Pyke are under contact…..
We can’t keep holohan, he’s past it. Green, maybe.
Anyway, it doesn’t mean I’m not 100% behind this squad until safety. Then we’ll see what DA has decided.
How many times has it been said on here “we can do better”? Actually we often can’t. It was said about Max and Orsi who have played 36 and 35 games this season, and they could have a made a big difference to our season. Both Gav and Green are highly committed squad members who also have a relatively good track record with injuries. For me, it depends on their expectations, if they want to be starters every week then they should move on, but if they are happy at GTFC as squad players they could be worth another 12 months. Especially if on relatively modest wages. It depends on the clubs view on Khouri though - if we kept both that could be a blocker on his progress.
That's basically my view with signings/releasing players - you need to be 100% sure that you will be bringing better in, which seems to be something we struggle with ; we would have let Wilson go to Crawley remember if the paperwork had gone through on time ..... we got lucky with that one .
That's basically my view with signings/releasing players - you need to be 100% sure that you will be bringing better in, which seems to be something we struggle with ; we would have let Wilson go to Crawley remember if the paperwork had gone through on time ..... we got lucky with that one .
Yeah that was really bad judgment, which to be fair ordinary fans pointed out at the time, but the pro football manager we employ wanted rid. We and him got a lucky break the paperwork didn't go through.
That's incredibly harsh on Mullarkey, who since moving to the RCB role has looked just as competent as the other 2 centre halves. We definitely need 2 more mobile central midfielders, similar to the 2 that ran the midfield for MK Dons last week, to compliment Thompson and so we retain possession for longer periods of the game.
Harsh on Mullarkey? He's a good player but (like all players this season) not consistent. I'm not asking for his head, just pointing out that crosses were coming in on his left which he didn't/couldn't stop. He got subbed. Says all.
Personally I was undecided on Crocombe, but adamant that Orsi should stay. We were losing McAtee and Taylor, so keeping Orsi would have kept some continuity.
Undecided about Crocombe? He's the best keeper we've had for years, in spite of his in-match injury issues that required treatment towards the end of most tight games.
I can see why Hurst let Orsi go, as he hadn't shown much in many of the games he played, but then he wasn't trusted to have a run in the team to prove himself. After a decent performance, he was often back on the bench the next game. I think at this level, you aren't going to get too many players capable of leading the line as well as scoring lots of goals (Rose the only exception for us in League football in recent years) and Hurst wasn't willing to give him a starting spot on the off-chance he might score a goal or two. I was OK to see him go and would rather have Rose, but we've not consistently had a strike pairing this season and, ideally, you want a couple of strikers scoring goals. Wilson and Obikwu now chipping in, which is certainly helpful, given our predicament.
I wouldn't keep Holohan next season. He's had some terrible performances at times, rescued by the odd good delivery into the box which has led to a goal (against MK Dons, for example). I think he's not the player he was and he's not going to get any better at his age. Not sure Green is technically up to the job. Is he under contract next season? If not, I don't think I would be looking to keep him, either.
Gavs one of these where we’d probably miss him when he’s gone. I think he’s been poor the past 2 games but then pops up with vital performances/goals at just the right time. When he’s bad he’s bad, when he’s good he’s excellent, although the bad seem to be happening more often than the good this season.
I’d keep him as a squad player, because we’d find those match winning moments difficult to replicate from a player of a similar ilk IMO.
The thing about Gav, is he does really good stuff with the ball that can lead to goals and assists, but considering everyone says he always puts in a shift, he's often at fault for giving up on tracking back and being way too casual. I've seen several goals conceded where he's likely contributed to that.
Don't get me wrong, he has upside, but you'd need 2 hard working players behind him and you'd have to carry him as a luxury player. Would you want an attacking midfielder who's passing is so hit and miss? Surely there are better options out there in that role. Would he be useful off the bench and as competition in an attacking role? Of course, but he cost more than Khouri and take opportunities away from him. If we have a budget for midfield. I'd rather we had a good budget for 3 starters, an Khouri and another youngster to challenge them.
The other issue is, we have Hunt on another year, and without being able to ship him out, we could be carrying 2 bench luxuries not consistently at a good L2 standard. I'd rather Clifton on the bench and as utility option and bring other starters in alongside Thompson.
Don't get me wrong, what Gav has done in the past has been great, but unless his salary demands are real modest and can slot in as a bench option, it feels like a luxury we cannot afford. To progress, sometimes you've got to let the sentiment go.
Yeah that was really bad judgment, which to be fair ordinary fans pointed out at the time, but the pro football manager we employ wanted rid. We and him got a lucky break the paperwork didn't go through.
DA explained in an interview that he didn't want rid. He sensed that the player wasn't happy and said if he wanted to go then fair enough, he wouldn't stand in his way. DA obviously knew that Crawley were interested. But he also said that he would be also happy if he stayed.
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
That's basically my view with signings/releasing players - you need to be 100% sure that you will be bringing better in, which seems to be something we struggle with ; we would have let Wilson go to Crawley remember if the paperwork had gone through on time ..... we got lucky with that one .
You're never going to be 100% sure. The only players you truly known are the ones you have under contract and have seen in training and matches.
However, if we don't improve on below average L2 players, we have no right to be higher up the table. We cannot afford to be complacent, and we have to keep improving our squad. Sticking with what we have represents a significant risk as this season has taught us.
Personally I was undecided on Crocombe, but adamant that Orsi should stay. We were losing McAtee and Taylor, so keeping Orsi would have kept some continuity.
Next season, it’s worth pointing out that Rose, Wilson and Pyke are under contact…..
We can’t keep holohan, he’s past it. Green, maybe.
Anyway, it doesn’t mean I’m not 100% behind this squad until safety. Then we’ll see what DA has decided.
Orsi was under contract , but we let him go for game time and to be closer south - all very admirable from a personable point of view but in hindsight made us weaker ; exactly the same could have happened with Wilson barring the paperwork mix up and on current form he will play a role in securing our league status . We obviously care about the person aswell as the player which is all well and good but we need to strike a balance between detriment to the team and making people happy .
You're never going to be 100% sure. The only players you truly known are the ones you have under contract and have seen in training and matches.
However, if we don't improve on below average L2 players, we have no right to be higher up the table. We cannot afford to be complacent, and we have to keep improving our squad. Sticking with what we have represents a significant risk as this season has taught us.
Yeah I do agree we need to improve for sure especially in the middle of the park . But I really don't want to see the 15-20 player overhaul which I sort of expect to happen ; maybe just maybe a gradual changeover would work better alligning with the style of play - we saw how badly wrong that went trying to change it instantly .
Undecided about Crocombe? He's the best keeper we've had for years, in spite of his in-match injury issues that required treatment towards the end of most tight games.
I can see why Hurst let Orsi go, as he hadn't shown much in many of the games he played, but then he wasn't trusted to have a run in the team to prove himself. After a decent performance, he was often back on the bench the next game. I think at this level, you aren't going to get too many players capable of leading the line as well as scoring lots of goals (Rose the only exception for us in League football in recent years) and Hurst wasn't willing to give him a starting spot on the off-chance he might score a goal or two. I was OK to see him go and would rather have Rose, but we've not consistently had a strike pairing this season and, ideally, you want a couple of strikers scoring goals. Wilson and Obikwu now chipping in, which is certainly helpful, given our predicament.
I wouldn't keep Holohan next season. He's had some terrible performances at times, rescued by the odd good delivery into the box which has led to a goal (against MK Dons, for example). I think he's not the player he was and he's not going to get any better at his age. Not sure Green is technically up to the job. Is he under contract next season? If not, I don't think I would be looking to keep him, either.
Of course, with hindsight I now realise how good Crocombe was, you’re right, but his form did slip at the tail end of last season. I think the fans were 50/50 on his contract situation, and there were definitely some on here who proclaimed after our opening game against Wimbledon that Eastwood was a clear upgrade - have a think about that!!
Of course, with hindsight I now realise how good Crocombe was, you’re right, but his form did slip at the tail end of last season. I think the fans were 50/50 on his contract situation, and there were definitely some on here who proclaimed after our opening game against Wimbledon that Eastwood was a clear upgrade - have a think about that!!
I think it was further than 50/50. I'd say the majority (70%+ from what I saw) felt we needed an upgrade, and that he didn't justify being a guaranteed first choice pick based on last season.
I think there was a lot of rewriting history when folk were pushing for Hurst to be gone. Don't get me wrong, there was more than enough arguments in favour of that. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
The problem with our midfield, and that goes for all of them, is ball retention and passing accuracy. We are consistently around late 50's, early 60's percentage wise, and it just isn't good enough to control games of football. Some of them can't even control the ball a lot of the time, and the second touch is a tackle. One of the few with good touch and technique is Gnahoua, but his stats for goals and assists is almost non existent. Think he has no goals and one assist in the league.
We have tightened up massively at the back, but come under constant pressure because we simply cannot keep hold of the ball for any sustained period. I do a little thing when watching Town. I count how many touches we have before losing it, or going out of play, and it stops at four or less with alarming regularity. Gav gives up possession too many times and he just ambles back like he has all the time in the world. He's missed many glorious opportunities too, and for me is a top end Non League, lower end League 2 player, which is where we are at, so we need better to get up the league.
DA keeps saying that the next step of the progression is to control games better, but I'm afraid it isn't going to happen with this lot, Thompson apart. We are also painfully slow in there to boot and I feel we need a much better standard of player in there if we are to progress. I wouldn't lose sleep over any of them being shown the door in the summer. Thompson is of the standard, and Clifton purely for his work rate and versatility is a keeper, but the others can all go for me. Ainley being an unknown quantity at this stage.
The problem with our midfield, and that goes for all of them, is ball retention and passing accuracy. We are consistently around late 50's, early 60's percentage wise, and it just isn't good enough to control games of football. Some of them can't even control the ball a lot of the time, and the second touch is a tackle. One of the few with good touch and technique is Gnahoua, but his stats for goals and assists is almost non existent. Think he has no goals and one assist in the league.
We have tightened up massively at the back, but come under constant pressure because we simply cannot keep hold of the ball for any sustained period. I do a little thing when watching Town. I count how many touches we have before losing it, or going out of play, and it stops at four or less with alarming regularity. Gav gives up possession too many times and he just ambles back like he has all the time in the world. He's missed many glorious opportunities too, and for me is a top end Non League, lower end League 2 player, which is where we are at, so we need better to get up the league.
DA keeps saying that the next step of the progression is to control games better, but I'm afraid it isn't going to happen with this lot, Thompson apart. We are also painfully slow in there to boot and I feel we need a much better standard of player in there if we are to progress. I wouldn't lose sleep over any of them being shown the door in the summer. Thompson is of the standard, and Clifton purely for his work rate and versatility is a keeper, but the others can all go for me. Ainley being an unknown quantity at this stage.
Hunt and Khouri are under contract - to say they need to step up is an understatement.
Orsi was under contract , but we let him go for game time and to be closer south - all very admirable from a personable point of view but in hindsight made us weaker ; exactly the same could have happened with Wilson barring the paperwork mix up and on current form he will play a role in securing our league status . We obviously care about the person aswell as the player which is all well and good but we need to strike a balance between detriment to the team and making people happy .
Yeah I don't set much store at all by the claims of managers that they made such and such decision to not keep or not re-sign a player because they were thinking of him. I think that that stuff is usually guff for the sake of placating fans or to be polite about a player you don't currently want/need (but may do at another club in years to come).
But even if you set that opinion aside and believe what Artell said about letting Wilson walk from his contract here then it's still a poor decision, he's employed to look after GTFCs interest not Wilsons. If it's not going to negatively effect us then sure you can let him walk away from a contract but we're in the middle of a desperate relegation battle and we only have 3 first team strikers (I'm not counting Pyke cos he's a wide player and a striker in an emergency only) of which he is one and the second top scorer of them to boot.
Letting him go would have left us dangerously short and without any pace up front as a sub option. All amply demonstrated within weeks when he is forcing his way into a 2 man forward line up when we changed from Artell's favoured 4 3 3 formation as we stare into the abyss. Further demonstrated when rose is injured and we need wilson to start games (not to mention obikwu was going away on international duty and not even being available for some of that time). It was a dreadful decision which he and we were incredibly lucky didn't materialise due to paperwork bungles. Certainly doesn't fill me with confidence in his judgement on that score anyway.
Yeah I don't set much store at all by the claims of managers that they made such and such decision to not keep or not re-sign a player because they were thinking of him. I think that that stuff is usually guff for the sake of placating fans or to be polite about a player you don't currently want/need (but may do at another club in years to come).
But even if you set that opinion aside and believe what Artell said about letting Wilson walk from his contract here then it's still a poor decision, he's employed to look after GTFCs interest not Wilsons. If it's not going to negatively effect us then sure you can let him walk away from a contract but we're in the middle of a desperate relegation battle and we only have 3 first team strikers (I'm not counting Pyke cos he's a wide player and a striker in an emergency only) of which he is one and the second top scorer of them to boot.
Letting him go would have left us dangerously short and without any pace up front as a sub option. All amply demonstrated within weeks when he is forcing his way into a 2 man forward line up when we changed from Artell's favoured 4 3 3 formation as we stare into the abyss. Further demonstrated when rose is injured and we need wilson to start games (not to mention obikwu was going away on international duty and not even being available for some of that time). It was a dreadful decision which he and we were incredibly lucky didn't materialise due to paperwork bungles. Certainly doesn't fill me with confidence in his judgement on that score anyway.
So you think keeping a player to his contract even though he wants to leave is a good thing and also good for the club?
The Future is Black & White. "The commonest thing on this planet is not water , as some people believe, but stupidity ". Frank Zappa
I personally think Green has improved massively from a technical perspective since Artell came in, he’s starting to resemble a footballer when the ball is at his feet. Despite looking about 45, he’s still only 26 so I think there’s still some improvement to be had there, but I do feel it’s starting to click a bit for him.
I personally think Green has improved massively from a technical perspective since Artell came in, he’s starting to resemble a footballer when the ball is at his feet. Despite looking about 45, he’s still only 26 so I think there’s still some improvement to be had there, but I do feel it’s starting to click a bit for him.
I’d 100% keep Green. He has his uses and we have no one else with those attributes. He’s not by any means a regular starter but nor is he without value.
Batch, Crombie, Moore K, Wiggington, Cumming, Waters, Bonnyman, Ford, Emson, Drinkell, Whymark. Love you all, You are the reason I'm on here. You've had help from Todd, Handyside, Futcher P, Groves, Mendonca, Macca etc etc etc. Up The Mariners!!!!!!!!!
Thompson and Clifton are the only current midfielders I'd keep. And Clifton mainly because he is so versatile. Last summer we were in a situation whereby the only midfielder out of contract was Bryn Morris so he was let go by default. Whether or not he was the worst midfielder in the squad is very arguable in my opinion. The midfield needed an overhaul last summer but we were hamstrung by the deals that were already in place, we can't be only changing one of them again this summer. Khouri, Hunt and Green definitely aren't good/consistent enough for me. Holohan, I can see the arguments for keeping him but I'd be inclined to say thank you for the memories Gav but we need to move on. Ainley, we've not seen enough of and I'm not even sure if he falls into the CM category anyway but fortunately we have a manager who knows him better than anyone else so I trust him on that.
Thompson and Clifton are the only current midfielders I'd keep. And Clifton mainly because he is so versatile. Last summer we were in a situation whereby the only midfielder out of contract was Bryn Morris so he was let go by default. Whether or not he was the worst midfielder in the squad is very arguable in my opinion. The midfield needed an overhaul last summer but we were hamstrung by the deals that were already in place, we can't be only changing one of them again this summer. Khouri, Hunt and Green definitely aren't good/consistent enough for me. Holohan, I can see the arguments for keeping him but I'd be inclined to say thank you for the memories Gav but we need to move on. Ainley, we've not seen enough of and I'm not even sure if he falls into the CM category anyway but fortunately we have a manager who knows him better than anyone else so I trust him on that.
Khouri is 21, started 6 games last season and 2 trophy games this season. Not good or consistent enough based on?
Khouri is 21, started 6 games last season and 2 trophy games this season. Not good or consistent enough based on?
Well you could use that argument to ask why so many think he is so good he should be starting.
He may well turn out to be a very good player but considering the games he has actually started, if he was that good surely he would have started more or is it that he is injury prone?
I’d 100% keep Green. He has his uses and we have no one else with those attributes. He’s not by any means a regular starter but nor is he without value.
It raises a question about the youth team and whether or not any of them are ready to step up. Surely that affects who we offer contract extensions to?
If we keep the 3 -5-2 formation next season I’d definitely keep Green as he’s looks much more effective in it and could easily slot into a back 3 if needed.
I personally think Green has improved massively from a technical perspective since Artell came in, he’s starting to resemble a footballer when the ball is at his feet. Despite looking about 45, he’s still only 26 so I think there’s still some improvement to be had there, but I do feel it’s starting to click a bit for him.
I see why people like Green. His time with Town actually feels a bit stop start, injured from time to time, starting a game on the bench for a couple of games after that, I just wonder what we'd see if he was given a good run in the starting line up. Like Holohan though his passing isn't great and if you're going to class yourself as mid fielder you need to be a good passer of the ball.
"Crombie you would have got to that if you weren't such a fat ba%$@rd" - George Kerr, inspiration from the dug out 70s style
Khouri is 21, started 6 games last season and 2 trophy games this season. Not good or consistent enough based on?
Based on the multiple times I've seen him play. It would be nice to eat my words, but I just think he's massively overrated by a lot of Town fans for no real reason. He looks tidy for sure, but I've not really seen any evidence that he has the tenacity or guile to really affect a game. We've currently got plenty of midfielders that excel at one thing and one thing only, we need midfielders that have more balance to their game. I'd maybe have Khouri in the squad and loaned out again if he's classed as an additional CM spot but I'd rather have CMs that are ready to play first team football if that's not an option. For me it's quite telling that we have brought in young loan CMs over the past three seasons that have been ahead of him in the pecking order.
How many times has it been said on here “we can do better”? Actually we often can’t. It was said about Max and Orsi who have played 36 and 35 games this season, and they could have a made a big difference to our season. Both Gav and Green are highly committed squad members who also have a relatively good track record with injuries. For me, it depends on their expectations, if they want to be starters every week then they should move on, but if they are happy at GTFC as squad players they could be worth another 12 months. Especially if on relatively modest wages. It depends on the clubs view on Khouri though - if we kept both that could be a blocker on his progress.
Is it that we can't or that we just don't?
This forum was more or less unanimously in agreement 12 months that Crocombe had run his course with us and the time was right for both parties to look for something else. Less nice way of putting it is that perhaps his time here had gone a bit stale He wasn't as commanding in his area, his kicking had gone to pieces and he was forever palming relatively easy shots back into the path of strikers.
We should have upgraded on him if we wanted to kick on. You're not going to get better than midtable League Two if you're first choice 'keeper is performing how Crocombe did in the second half of last season. Ultimately, we didn't do that. We downgraded, certainly on the first 6 months of the season. I think Eastwood is a fine 'keeper when his chin is up, the problem is that his confidence is so fragile that the slightest dent and he completely crumbles. Cartwright is now showing what he can do and if we take his last month or so in isolation he pisses all over Crocombe, but more than likely he just wasn't ready to be first choice in November of last year.
It's an ongoing issue at this club and I will repeat it, it's the legacy of Hurst. In the Football League he simply failed at every attempt to upgrade on the players he let go. The intent was absolutely correct, you always want to get better players in and the first-teamers of today become the squad players of tomorrow as you go through that process. But he never managed to do it. I don't think it's unkind to say that more often than not he weakened us with his transfer dealings at this level. I'm really struggling to think of more than a handful of signings in the league under Hurst that were genuine improvements and upgrades. Danny Rose absolutely, Danny Andrew, it's definitely a theme as Danny Collins too was an upgrade. But who else?
I really like Holohan, he just seems a very likeable bloke and I think we've consistently looked better with him in the side since he arrived two years ago. His ability to pop up with important goals has proved key. But he should not be part of our improvement arc. Same with Green, who I do think has put in a couple of very good performances of late. Ultimately they are not the players who take you into the higher echelons of this division.
Of the two Green is probably the one with the better chance of staying because he's a bit more versatile, I do think he's perhaps got a bit more to offer moving further forward and that he can and does suit a high press in that role. Technically though I'm not sure. He can do that destroyer role but I think in both Conteh and now Thompson we've seen that an effective holding midfielder can and should offer more than just getting to the ball first. Thompson especially is doing everything Green does in that role and then more. If Thompson's out and Green drops into that position, our game dramatically changes and is weakened. It's idealistic but you want someone who's more capable of doing the Thompson role. Also if our aspirations are to challenge at the top end, how often are we going to go somewhere and want to put Green in there to do a destruction job? Probably not very often.
If we had to sort contracts today, I would offer Clifton one but on the understanding that his primary position is wingback/fullback. In that position I honestly think he's up there at this level. But in midfield he's another we would need to improve on if we want to kick on.
The harsh reality is that the vast majority of the squad still have huge question marks over them. At the back Rodgers and Mullarkey have really improved in recent games, but it still must be a worry of how bad they can be. Wilson up top, who I think has looked every inch the perfect No 9 at this level (strong, mobile, quick, intelligent and a bloody good finisher too), but what was it that Artell didn't fancy about him to start with? I can't remember the comment but it was about his fitness/durability when it came to injuries and knocks. I don't for a second think we're in danger, but this squad is still the one that's left us in that position. How much of that do you want to take forward into the next season? I don't think it's going to be a shock when we return to a more expansive style of play next season, how many of this lot does Artell fancy can cope with that?
This forum was more or less unanimously in agreement 12 months that Crocombe had run his course with us and the time was right for both parties to look for something else. Less nice way of putting it is that perhaps his time here had gone a bit stale He wasn't as commanding in his area, his kicking had gone to pieces and he was forever palming relatively easy shots back into the path of strikers.
We should have upgraded on him if we wanted to kick on. You're not going to get better than midtable League Two if you're first choice 'keeper is performing how Crocombe did in the second half of last season. Ultimately, we didn't do that. We downgraded, certainly on the first 6 months of the season. I think Eastwood is a fine 'keeper when his chin is up, the problem is that his confidence is so fragile that the slightest dent and he completely crumbles. Cartwright is now showing what he can do and if we take his last month or so in isolation he pisses all over Crocombe, but more than likely he just wasn't ready to be first choice in November of last year.
It's an ongoing issue at this club and I will repeat it, it's the legacy of Hurst. In the Football League he simply failed at every attempt to upgrade on the players he let go. The intent was absolutely correct, you always want to get better players in and the first-teamers of today become the squad players of tomorrow as you go through that process. But he never managed to do it. I don't think it's unkind to say that more often than not he weakened us with his transfer dealings at this level. I'm really struggling to think of more than a handful of signings in the league under Hurst that were genuine improvements and upgrades. Danny Rose absolutely, Danny Andrew, it's definitely a theme as Danny Collins too was an upgrade. But who else?
I really like Holohan, he just seems a very likeable bloke and I think we've consistently looked better with him in the side since he arrived two years ago. His ability to pop up with important goals has proved key. But he should not be part of our improvement arc. Same with Green, who I do think has put in a couple of very good performances of late. Ultimately they are not the players who take you into the higher echelons of this division.
Of the two Green is probably the one with the better chance of staying because he's a bit more versatile, I do think he's perhaps got a bit more to offer moving further forward and that he can and does suit a high press in that role. Technically though I'm not sure. He can do that destroyer role but I think in both Conteh and now Thompson we've seen that an effective holding midfielder can and should offer more than just getting to the ball first. Thompson especially is doing everything Green does in that role and then more. If Thompson's out and Green drops into that position, our game dramatically changes and is weakened. It's idealistic but you want someone who's more capable of doing the Thompson role. Also if our aspirations are to challenge at the top end, how often are we going to go somewhere and want to put Green in there to do a destruction job? Probably not very often.
If we had to sort contracts today, I would offer Clifton one but on the understanding that his primary position is wingback/fullback. In that position I honestly think he's up there at this level. But in midfield he's another we would need to improve on if we want to kick on.
The harsh reality is that the vast majority of the squad still have huge question marks over them. At the back Rodgers and Mullarkey have really improved in recent games, but it still must be a worry of how bad they can be. Wilson up top, who I think has looked every inch the perfect No 9 at this level (strong, mobile, quick, intelligent and a bloody good finisher too), but what was it that Artell didn't fancy about him to start with? I can't remember the comment but it was about his fitness/durability when it came to injuries and knocks. I don't for a second think we're in danger, but this squad is still the one that's left us in that position. How much of that do you want to take forward into the next season? I don't think it's going to be a shock when we return to a more expansive style of play next season, how many of this lot does Artell fancy can cope with that?
My assumption as I said before is that Hurst had a ready made senior upgrade fixed up as a replacement for Crocombe , so I didn't see it as a major problem him leaving - it turned out he had some kid with high potential and somebody who had a terrible season for a relegated Rochdale previously fixed up .
Cartwright has turned out to be more than adequate a replacement , especially in recent weeks but the original recruitment in the goalkeeping department has to be put down as poor .
It will be interesting to see if we look at taking Cartwright back next season (or if Hull will let him out again to league 2 ) if not you would hope a high quality lower league standard keeper is the aim .
This forum was more or less unanimously in agreement 12 months that Crocombe had run his course with us and the time was right for both parties to look for something else. Less nice way of putting it is that perhaps his time here had gone a bit stale He wasn't as commanding in his area, his kicking had gone to pieces and he was forever palming relatively easy shots back into the path of strikers.
We should have upgraded on him if we wanted to kick on. You're not going to get better than midtable League Two if you're first choice 'keeper is performing how Crocombe did in the second half of last season. Ultimately, we didn't do that. We downgraded, certainly on the first 6 months of the season. I think Eastwood is a fine 'keeper when his chin is up, the problem is that his confidence is so fragile that the slightest dent and he completely crumbles. Cartwright is now showing what he can do and if we take his last month or so in isolation he pisses all over Crocombe, but more than likely he just wasn't ready to be first choice in November of last year.
It's an ongoing issue at this club and I will repeat it, it's the legacy of Hurst. In the Football League he simply failed at every attempt to upgrade on the players he let go. The intent was absolutely correct, you always want to get better players in and the first-teamers of today become the squad players of tomorrow as you go through that process. But he never managed to do it. I don't think it's unkind to say that more often than not he weakened us with his transfer dealings at this level. I'm really struggling to think of more than a handful of signings in the league under Hurst that were genuine improvements and upgrades. Danny Rose absolutely, Danny Andrew, it's definitely a theme as Danny Collins too was an upgrade. But who else?
I really like Holohan, he just seems a very likeable bloke and I think we've consistently looked better with him in the side since he arrived two years ago. His ability to pop up with important goals has proved key. But he should not be part of our improvement arc. Same with Green, who I do think has put in a couple of very good performances of late. Ultimately they are not the players who take you into the higher echelons of this division.
Of the two Green is probably the one with the better chance of staying because he's a bit more versatile, I do think he's perhaps got a bit more to offer moving further forward and that he can and does suit a high press in that role. Technically though I'm not sure. He can do that destroyer role but I think in both Conteh and now Thompson we've seen that an effective holding midfielder can and should offer more than just getting to the ball first. Thompson especially is doing everything Green does in that role and then more. If Thompson's out and Green drops into that position, our game dramatically changes and is weakened. It's idealistic but you want someone who's more capable of doing the Thompson role. Also if our aspirations are to challenge at the top end, how often are we going to go somewhere and want to put Green in there to do a destruction job? Probably not very often.
If we had to sort contracts today, I would offer Clifton one but on the understanding that his primary position is wingback/fullback. In that position I honestly think he's up there at this level. But in midfield he's another we would need to improve on if we want to kick on.
The harsh reality is that the vast majority of the squad still have huge question marks over them. At the back Rodgers and Mullarkey have really improved in recent games, but it still must be a worry of how bad they can be. Wilson up top, who I think has looked every inch the perfect No 9 at this level (strong, mobile, quick, intelligent and a bloody good finisher too), but what was it that Artell didn't fancy about him to start with? I can't remember the comment but it was about his fitness/durability when it came to injuries and knocks. I don't for a second think we're in danger, but this squad is still the one that's left us in that position. How much of that do you want to take forward into the next season? I don't think it's going to be a shock when we return to a more expansive style of play next season, how many of this lot does Artell fancy can cope with that?
I'd say the solution is staring us in the face. We need to fill the team with Dannys.
Danny Andrew only came to us because he'd been out for so long with injury. Putting himself in the shop window, so to speak. He was really, really good for us that one season, however.
I suppose Vernam is the equivalent for now - stepping down from a higher level to see if he can prove himself after injuries. Hasn't quite worked out yet, unfortunately.
To give Hurst credit with Andrew, it was a big gamble yet one that was a major success.
Andrew, for his class, was largely untested. Only managed one full season with Cheltenham in League Two and that was 10/11. After that two seasons of limited appearances and non-league loans, then a full season in the Conference with Macclesfield and then a further two injury disrupted years in League One with Fleetwood.
Less than 100 games in his mid-20's and a dicey injury record, I don't think too many League Two bosses would have put Andrew high on their transfer list or as their first choice. Hurst went all on in though, the only back up was another Daniel (Jones, Dan) who had even less experience at that level.
For me, the best left-back we've had (as our own) in a good 20 odd years.
Danny Andrew only came to us because he'd been out for so long with injury. Putting himself in the shop window, so to speak. He was really, really good for us that one season, however.
I suppose Vernam is the equivalent for now - stepping down from a higher level to see if he can prove himself after injuries. Hasn't quite worked out yet, unfortunately.
Some similarities but definitely not the same. With Andrews it was a 1 yr contract to suit both parties, we didn't risk a long contract on a player who may have been a long term injury risk. Similarly he didn't want to be stuck in a long contract with us if he proved he was better than this league 2, which he believed he was. With Vernam we have a regularly injured player but we are bound into a long term deal, whereas for Vernam he has shown he is up to this league 2 level football in the past but he's not better than this league, he's had a couple of goes at the league above and failed to establish himself at that level. This contract definitely suits Vernam, it doesn't suit us if he continues with his injury struggles.
I personally think Green has improved massively from a technical perspective since Artell came in, he’s starting to resemble a footballer when the ball is at his feet. Despite looking about 45, he’s still only 26 so I think there’s still some improvement to be had there, but I do feel it’s starting to click a bit for him.
Based on the last 3 games I've seen, I couldn't agree more. The transformation in him techically is incredible - on Saturday I had to keep reminding myself it was Green I was watching!
For me, the best left-back we've had (as our own) in a good 20 odd years.
Best left-back I've seen, really. Townsend was clearly good but I think Andrew was better over a whole season. We quite literally didn't bother playing with a left-sided midfielder for much of the season, because he was doing both the defending and the attacking down our left! Truth be told, I'm surprised he didn't play higher than he did, but perhaps his pace didn't stand out quite so much at that level.
Personally don't think Andrew gets near Townsend if I'm honest.
Purely in terms of ability compared to the level they were playing for us, I've not seen a better player in a Town shirt than Conor Townsend. He was just that good at Conference level, especially for his age. Even in his second spell he was only in his early 20's yet from the off it was just a case of give him the ball and let him do stuff.
Fair point on the lack of a left side when Andrew was here, but I think it was largely the case in Townsend's second spell too as he had Andy Monkhouse ahead of him.
Personally don't think Andrew gets near Townsend if I'm honest.
Purely in terms of ability compared to the level they were playing for us, I've not seen a better player in a Town shirt than Conor Townsend. He was just that good at Conference level, especially for his age. Even in his second spell he was only in his early 20's yet from the off it was just a case of give him the ball and let him do stuff.
Fair point on the lack of a left side when Andrew was here, but I think it was largely the case in Townsend's second spell too as he had Andy Monkhouse ahead of him.
Townsend was so stand out above the level it was ridiculous
Yes, but Townsend was playing a division lower than Andrew during his two spells with us. Their subsequent careers would tend to indicate that Townsend was a better player, but I don't think he was better than Andrew during his time with us.
It's odd, because I'd have said that Townsend was better going forward than Andrew, who was useful in attack with plenty of attacking play and good crosses, but didn't score for us. However, Andrew has scored loads more goals than Townsend during his career. Wikipedia seems to think he is a free-kick specialist, so that's perhaps the difference.
Yes, but Townsend was playing a division lower than Andrew during his two spells with us. Their subsequent careers would tend to indicate that Townsend was a better player, but I don't think he was better than Andrew during his time with us.
It's odd, because I'd have said that Townsend was better going forward than Andrew, who was useful in attack with plenty of attacking play and good crosses, but didn't score for us. However, Andrew has scored loads more goals than Townsend during his career. Wikipedia seems to think he is a free-kick specialist, so that's perhaps the difference.
Fair enough, always about opinions. I wouldn't have grumbled at any point in the last 10 years if either had turned up back here at some point.
Townsend was incredible going forward, second loan spell especially, but I don't ever remember him looking a direct goal threat with it though. Was a lot of pushing the ball past his man (at ease), then again and either laying it off or whipping a cross in. Also harder to score goals from defence, or anywhere for that matter, at the higher levels. Andrew's not stepped above League One yet Townsend has spent half of his career at Championship and even a season in the Prem. Last few times I've seen him on TV he's played left sided centre-back too. Conor did get one goal for us, was his first loan spell. Last minute free-kick that was from a ridiculous angle. I want to say it was against FGR.
Sad really that both of us are listing them so highly yet one had two separate loan spells in the Conference and the other a single season in League One. You probably have to go back 20+ years to find another consistently good left-back in a Town shirt.
Conor did get one goal for us, was his first loan spell. Last minute free-kick that was from a ridiculous angle. I want to say it was against FGR.
Three it turns out.
Tweet 1397192956659044353 will appear here...
First one in that clip is St Albans in the FA Cup Qualifier. Second is the one I was thinking about but that was against Welling. I'll see if I can find the FGR one.
It’s here (skip the first 40 seconds of irrelevant bòllocks). I was still celebrating that goal when I got pulled over for speeding on the M180 on my way home. 81mph ffs.
My assumption as I said before is that Hurst had a ready made senior upgrade fixed up as a replacement for Crocombe , so I didn't see it as a major problem him leaving - it turned out he had some kid with high potential and somebody who had a terrible season for a relegated Rochdale previously fixed up .
Cartwright has turned out to be more than adequate a replacement , especially in recent weeks but the original recruitment in the goalkeeping department has to be put down as poor .
It will be interesting to see if we look at taking Cartwright back next season (or if Hull will let him out again to league 2 ) if not you would hope a high quality lower league standard keeper is the aim .
I agree with a lot you have written, but not that in BOLD. Yes, he's starting to become a useful GK now but only in patches. He's in the last few games plucking the highballs from crosses/corners and killing the threat, but not always. He is still hesitant to come out gathering loose balls, but not always, which also shows up with backs kicking the ball out because there is little trust in him. The goal by Gillingham was a soft one as our back didn't track Lapslie, but Cartwright watched it all, no movement, no attempt. An older keeper would have moved with the ball, he might have given a penno away or smacked our back, who knows, but there would have been some attempt. As I've said, Cartwright watched it happen. He has got better and in the next 9 games time he would be up to the point of expertise we should have had right at the start of the season. I don't hold a grudge, as its not his fault we started the season with two apprentice GK's.
Think all this debate on the squad needs a new thread. Once we are safe then perhaps we can have a retained list thread. My view remains that several managers have failed to build a squad good enough to kick on from this level - bottom half league 2, and the task at hand is very challenging with our budget and somewhat unattractive location. PH tried to reduce the squad size but improve overall quality and failed. We saw what happened last season with injuries to McAtee and Taylor, we had some amazing cup wins but had zilch chance of kicking on with a surge towards the play-offs. Are we going to recruit 3 top of league 2 midfielders to make up the squad depth we need with Thompson plus Khouri or a loanee in. Little chance I’d say.
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