Billy Chadwick from Ull

Billy Chadwick from Hull

Quoted from Wemble1998

Billy Chadwick from Hull

Done?

Hope so.

He's 23 now and doesn't look like he's going to break into the Hull side.

Scored a good few for Boston on loan.

A signing that I would love to see at Town!

I got told by a scout last week that he is all right foot and that is holding him back. He is very small but I saw Boston yesterday and he rifled one in from the edge of the box with his left foot.

He's come back from a bad injury but he's cutting through NLN defences like a hot knife through butter. As a wide forward in a front three I think he would be half decent squad player for us.

Finley Thorndike who is on loan at Boston from Birmingham City (and previously at Villa and West Brom) was very impressive in midfield too. First time I've seen him but he was excellent yesterday.

We  dont want squad players we need first on the sheet players . we have too many squad players as it is . Hurst will never know his best if the squad is full of squad players

Didnt pull up any trees at Linfield, but think we were linked with hom previously,  n if hes fit again now  then might be an interesting addition

Quoted from denni266

We  dont want squad players we need first on the sheet players . we have too many squad players as it is . Hurst will never know his best if the squad is full of squad players

We have 11 players under contract. 2 of which are rumoured to be attracting interest from clubs higher up and maybe a couple that PH will look to offload. And it would be surprising if PH chooses to retain more than a couple of the many who are out of contact and that depends on them wanting to stay.

We need plenty of new players. Maybe in the 13-15 range.

Worth a punt

https://youtu.be/eHPnDa2zbOw

Quoted from GollyGTFC

We have 11 players under contract. 2 of which are rumoured to be attracting interest from clubs higher up and maybe a couple that PH will look to offload.

Who else is attracting interest other than Clifton? Efete?

Quoted from MarinerDevil

Who else is attracting interest other than Clifton? Efete?

Glennon. Has been very inconsistent, but it’s his first full season of first team football. Before this seasons he’s had two half season loans. And the first of those was cut short by COVID.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Glennon. Has been very inconsistent, but it’s his first full season of first team football. Before this seasons he’s had two half season loans. And the first of those was cut short by COVID.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I'm surprised to be honest. His set piece delivery has been good but he's struggled defensively; I wouldn't be comfortable with him starting in a back 4 next season. Perhaps he'll kick on after a full pre-sesson and prove me wrong but I expect us to get another LB in for competition.

Quoted from denni266

We  dont want squad players we need first on the sheet players . we have too many squad players as it is . Hurst will never know his best if the squad is full of squad players

You still need some squad players in amongst that. 24 players all expecting to start every single game isn't going to build team spirit.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Glennon. Has been very inconsistent, but it’s his first full season of first team football. Before this seasons he’s had two half season loans. And the first of those was cut short by COVID.

Hurst said he knew of no interest in Harry but as we’re upping his deal I suspect we’re expecting some.

The Glennon one I think has come out of a “scatter some names around” tweet by that lad on Twitter, Gabriel Sutton.

Personally I think Glennon is improving and we’d only let Clifton go for good money.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Hurst said he knew of no interest in Harry but as we’re upping his deal I suspect we’re expecting some.

The Glennon one I think has come out of a “scatter some names around” tweet by that lad on Twitter, Gabriel Sutton.

Personally I think Glennon is improving and we’d only let Clifton go for good money.

Glennon is going to be a very good player. It's easy to forget this was his first season of proper senior football.

I think Glennon has good stats and that is how players are judged now in the main.

Thought he looked pretty decent at Brighton, but sometimes looks suspect in league 2.

Relatively inexperienced though, so room for him to improve and get more consistent.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Glennon is going to be a very good player. It's easy to forget this was his first season of proper senior football.

Covid can't have helped matters but he looked like a very bright prospect in his first loan here three years ago. At 23, he should have played much more than about 60 games.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Glennon is going to be a very good player. It's easy to forget this was his first season of proper senior football.

Agree completely mate.

Quoted from ska face

Worth a punt

https://youtu.be/eHPnDa2zbOw

Some impressive goals there.

Quoted from ska face

Worth a punt

https://youtu.be/eHPnDa2zbOw

some well taken goals in that reel.

Quoted from ginnywings

I think Glennon has good stats and that is how players are judged now in the main.

Thought he looked pretty decent at Brighton, but sometimes looks suspect in league 2.

Relatively inexperienced though, so room for him to improve and get more consistent.

ditto Efete...... ( and you could add Maher, Green, Smith & Khouri into that list as well)

Quoted from forza ivano

some well taken goals in that reel.

No tap ins there....not a bad thing as we rarely pick a striker out in the box anyway

I would like us to go back in for Raikhy from Villa. Big, rangy footballer who has hopefully bulked out a bit. Alongside Hunt and Clifton that would be a very tidy midfield 3.

Quoted from smokey111

I would like us to go back in for Raikhy from Villa. Big, rangy footballer who has hopefully bulked out a bit. Alongside Hunt and Clifton that would be a very tidy midfield 3.

Raikhy and Hunt in the middle could see us overpowered by ‘physical’ teams again.

Raikhy was a big lad, as I recall - over 6 foot and quite athletic. He's not going to have become weaker over the past 12 months so ought to be able to hold his own physically. Hunt's issue is that he's about 9 stone dripping wet.

Quoted from thefish

Raikhy and Hunt in the middle could see us overpowered by ‘physical’ teams again.

If we play a 3, we need to accommodate Hunt's ability. Raikhy is a big lad (at least 6 1) and if he has bulked up is quite physically imposing. Ticks a few boxes for me.

Quoted from smokey111

If we play a 3, we need to accommodate Hunt's ability. Raikhy is a big lad (at least 6 1) and if he has bulked up is quite physically imposing. Ticks a few boxes for me.

I would see raikhy as an alternative to hunt (and morris) rather than playing with him, he is a similar player in that he likes a risky forward pass.

Quoted from toontown

I would see raikhy as an alternative to hunt (and morris) rather than playing with him, he is a similar player in that he likes a risky forward pass.

Fair point. Although, I would certainly hope at BP they could both play.

Quite surprised he wasn't out on loan somewhere last year. He is certainly different to what we already have.

Some great goals in that reel and no doubt he has some technical ability that's too good for that division.

But we're two levels above... and there was some god-awful defending against him!

Dayle Southwell tore it up at that level for Boston (even more so) and he was deemed surplus to requirements here under Hurst.

Different sort of players, maybe. But an average L2 player can look a world beater in the NLN. Just offering a bit of balance/perspective.

Quoted from RichMariner

Some great goals in that reel and no doubt he has some technical ability that's too good for that division.

But we're two levels above... and there was some god-awful defending against him!

Dayle Southwell tore it up at that level for Boston (even more so) and he was deemed surplus to requirements here under Hurst.

Different sort of players, maybe. But an average L2 player can look a world beater in the NLN. Just offering a bit of balance/perspective.

We have had success and failure taking players from that level .But last decent 1 was Bogle and he was not as low as NLN

Quoted from Norseman

We have had success and failure taking players from that level .But last decent 1 was Bogle and he was not as low as NLN

Bogle was from NLN, but we were in the NL when we took a chance.

He clearly has skill and an eye for goal, it's whether Hurst has the patience with him (or the player has the patience) to be a long term project. Stephen Wearn looked like he would be but it didn't work out that way.

Liam Hearn and Omar Bogle were both top scorers in NLN for Alfreton and Solihull respectively, so I guess good players can be found at that level.

Hearn was brilliant in NL but never made it in the FL. Omar looked great for half a season in L2, and looking at how his career progressed since then, that's probably been his limit.

If we're to sign anyone from that level, you'd have to be looking at the top scorers. Look at how Macauley Langstaff did for County after doing well for Gateshead in their promotion.

Any strong performers for Fylde, for example, may have a chance here as a genuine first-teamer, beyond that anyone we sign from NLN will be squad player at best (to begin with).

Quoted from RichMariner

Liam Hearn and Omar Bogle were both top scorers in NLN for Alfreton and Solihull respectively, so I guess good players can be found at that level.

Hearn was brilliant in NL but never made it in the FL. Omar looked great for half a season in L2, and looking at how his career progressed since then, that's probably been his limit.

If we're to sign anyone from that level, you'd have to be looking at the top scorers. Look at how Macauley Langstaff did for County after doing well for Gateshead in their promotion.

Any strong performers for Fylde, for example, may have a chance here as a genuine first-teamer, beyond that anyone we sign from NLN will be squad player at best (to begin with).

Hearn would have made it in EFL were it not for injuries.

Quoted from RichMariner

Liam Hearn and Omar Bogle were both top scorers in NLN for Alfreton and Solihull respectively, so I guess good players can be found at that level.

Hearn was brilliant in NL but never made it in the FL. Omar looked great for half a season in L2, and looking at how his career progressed since then, that's probably been his limit.

If we're to sign anyone from that level, you'd have to be looking at the top scorers. Look at how Macauley Langstaff did for County after doing well for Gateshead in their promotion.

Any strong performers for Fylde, for example, may have a chance here as a genuine first-teamer, beyond that anyone we sign from NLN will be squad player at best (to begin with).

I suppose it’s a question of long term strategy & identity. The owners & Hurst have spoken about looking beyond the immediate and thinking terms of where we want to be in the medium & long term. Last summer’s recruitment was understandable given the quick turnaround & circumstances, this year will give more opportunity to think beyond “consolidation” in 12 months time.

Do we want to be a club who take a chance of players like this, in the hope they’ll come good and might turn a healthy profit a year or two down the line? Hurst is inconsistent in this regard, he’s shown with Khouri that he’s willing to let players progress but the lad made his debut two years ago and has barely troubled the team sheet since. Maybe other managers would’ve thrown him in earlier? He’s also shown he’s not averse to getting rid of young players if they don’t set the world alight, like Wearne this year.

Hurst is really under no pressure other than from the fans, and ultimately this counts for little as it’s the owners who’ll sack him - and they’ve shown they have no plans to do so.

Quoted from RichMariner

Liam Hearn and Omar Bogle were both top scorers in NLN for Alfreton and Solihull respectively, so I guess good players can be found at that level.

Hearn was brilliant in NL but never made it in the FL. Omar looked great for half a season in L2, and looking at how his career progressed since then, that's probably been his limit.

If we're to sign anyone from that level, you'd have to be looking at the top scorers. Look at how Macauley Langstaff did for County after doing well for Gateshead in their promotion.

Any strong performers for Fylde, for example, may have a chance here as a genuine first-teamer, beyond that anyone we sign from NLN will be squad player at best (to begin with).

I still think Faal is worth a look from Havant 21 in 43 in conference South , seen him play a couple of times 6 foot 5 ,a  lanky nuisance can play out wide as well up top.

Some one will take a gamble on him so why not us?

Hurst won't be complacent just because he has the backing of the board and is not under threat of the sack. We are now going down the same recruitment road that serves Brighton and Brentford so we'll of data analysis. Before we had to rely on scouts watching players and word of mouth. He still managed to find some decent players, so hopefully with all this new sports science he can earth some hidden gems that others miss.
Interesting times.

Quoted from Mappers

I still think Faal is worth a look from Havant 21 in 43 in conference South , seen him play a couple of times 6 foot 5 ,a  lanky nuisance can play out wide as well up top.

Some one will take a gamble on him so why not us?

Faal? I’ve heard that guy is red hot.

Quoted from Mappers

I still think Faal is worth a look from Havant 21 in 43 in conference South , seen him play a couple of times 6 foot 5 ,a  lanky nuisance can play out wide as well up top.

Some one will take a gamble on him so why not us?

His brother is at West Brom who is also a giant target man. Scored 10 in 16 on loan at AFC Flyde this season.

Wonder how big their Naan is?

Quoted from Youngy

His brother is at West Brom who is also a giant target man. Scored 10 in 16 on loan at AFC Flyde this season.

Wonder how big their Naan is?

Keep it in the family then.

What about his poppa Dom?

Take both of them and have 2 faalafels up top

Quoted from mimma

Hurst won't be complacent just because he has the backing of the board and is not under threat of the sack. We are now going down the same recruitment road that serves Brighton and Brentford so we'll of data analysis. Before we had to rely on scouts watching players and word of mouth. He still managed to find some decent players, so hopefully with all this new sports science he can earth some hidden gems that others miss.
Interesting times.

Think we are missing a point here, the club is now paying big bucks employing a  guy to go and mine those hidden gems, so theoretically we should get the crown jewels

Quoted from Garth

Think we are missing a point here, the club is now paying big bucks employing a  guy to go and mine those hidden gems, so theoretically we should get the crown jewels

If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

Quoted from Garth

Think we are missing a point here, the club is now paying big bucks employing a  guy to go and mine those hidden gems, so theoretically we should get the crown jewels

Theoretically is the word here.  What we have to remember is that The Transfer Window Is Not A Supermarket (TTWINAS).

Quoted from mimma

Hurst won't be complacent just because he has the backing of the board and is not under threat of the sack. We are now going down the same recruitment road that serves Brighton and Brentford so we'll of data analysis. Before we had to rely on scouts watching players and word of mouth. He still managed to find some decent players, so hopefully with all this new sports science he can earth some hidden gems that others miss.
Interesting times.

Is this not a slight oversimplification of the “Brighton / Brentford” model, and a slight exaggeration of our current recruitment capabilities? My understanding is that we now have a full-time employee reviewing gold standard data, watching footage and presumably attending games in which prospective targets are playing (or at least extending that responsibility to our scouting network).

In effect, we have someone dedicated to a role which previously would have had to be covered by the manager and his coaching team. That’s a massive step forward and should absolutely improve our recruitment results, but we’re not quite adopting a “moneyball” type model just yet, are we? To do what Brighton and Brentford are doing, even at a lower level of the game, presumably has associated costs and complexities which make it prohibitively difficult to emulate, else everyone would be doing it, wouldn’t they?

I'd like to see him here, even if he can't reproduce 11 in 20 at L2 level he takes players on and has great ball control, from what I've seen L2 defenders panic whenever someone runs at them with skill so he would be a great addition to bring something different, even if it's off the bench.

I think it's important we don't get too excited and carried away with this new approach towards recruitment.

Yes, it's very exciting that we're looking at data to compliment the more traditional 'feel' approach to scouting.  But this doesn't put us ahead of the curve, it's just us starting to catch up with everyone else.  Thanks to two decades of gross underinvestment we've swam against the tide for so long.  

It's really a minor miracle that we've managed to unearth some genuine talents when our constraints were so significant.  No doubt this will aid Hurst's clear eye for talent, but it doesn't mean we'll standalone in the recruitment game.  We certainly won't be the only club at this level with a specified guy looking at data.

Regards some of those names mentioned here...

Chadwick - I was told we were interested in him in January but owing to him only coming back from a long-term injury it wasn't felt to be the best fit for both the lad and Town if we went a bit further down the ladder.  He's well thought of at Hull but they recognise that he isn't going to be in their plans moving forward.  I think there's a genuine chance of this one coming off.

Raikhy - I think he's that type of midfielder we've lacked this season, for a fair few in fact.  Someone who has got that long rangy style of play. I'm not comparing the two, but almost a Patrick Vieira type style to play.  Not really quick but those long legs that cover a lot of distance and seemingly appear from nowhere.  He also knocked it about quite well too when he was here on loan.  I wouldn't really see that his has to be a case of him or Hunt, both to me look they could play further forward than that sitting role.  

Glennon - Struggling to see where the links to a higher level have come from to be honest.  Started like a house on fire for the first few games but over the season he rarely impressed me.  In his defence, the illness he got seemed to have knocked him for six and he never really looked on it since.  In his loan spell I always thought he was fairly quick, but this season he's looked like he treads water, dunno if that's injuries that have hit him hard or what.  But athletically I think he needs to up it if he wants to go to the next level.  His form in his loan spell gives enough hope for what he can do, but if we hadn't had that loan deal to give some inkling of his potential I wouldn't be desperate for him to stay.  He did pair up very nicely with Vernam during his loan spell so that could be an interesting set-up down the left.

Do you think that Glennons problem might be who is playing in front of him? Sometimes he gets left on his own?

Quoted from Garth

Think we are missing a point here, the club is now paying big bucks employing a  guy to go and mine those hidden gems, so theoretically we should get the crown jewels

‘Big bucks’? What’s his salary?

Quoted from Poojah

Is this not a slight oversimplification of the “Brighton / Brentford” model, and a slight exaggeration of our current recruitment capabilities? My understanding is that we now have a full-time employee reviewing gold standard data, watching footage and presumably attending games in which prospective targets are playing (or at least extending that responsibility to our scouting network).

In effect, we have someone dedicated to a role which previously would have had to be covered by the manager and his coaching team. That’s a massive step forward and should absolutely improve our recruitment results, but we’re not quite adopting a “moneyball” type model just yet, are we? To do what Brighton and Brentford are doing, even at a lower level of the game, presumably has associated costs and complexities which make it prohibitively difficult to emulate, else everyone would be doing it, wouldn’t they?

I think we are taking a hybrid approach in that we are going to /are take snippets from what other clubs are doing well and trying to  add it as we go along .
I am intrigued what difference (if any ) the new recruitment guy will have on summer signings , as he was well thought of at Lincoln signing relatively cheap players who have gone on to be decent ; will be interesting to see if that different set of eyes does mean recruitment differs from previous windows under Hurst .

Glennon is a good player but if you forget what you saw when he was here on loan, what would your assessment of him this season be?

I thought he looked a higher league player when on loan with us.

Since joining us, it looks like he's settled into a L2 groove and no longer looks like a higher league player on loan. He hasn't had a poor season, far from it, but I think we all know he's got more in the tank because we've seen it.

Quoted from RichMariner

Glennon is a good player but if you forget what you saw when he was here on loan, what would your assessment of him this season be?

I thought he looked a higher league player when on loan with us.

Since joining us, it looks like he's settled into a L2 groove and no longer looks like a higher league player on loan. He hasn't had a poor season, far from it, but I think we all know he's got more in the tank because we've seen it.

If my memory serves me correctly, Glennon started very well in his loan spell but his form did tail off a bit towards the end and it was Benson, who started off slow, but then started to look like the stand out player of the two of them that came on loan at the same time (obviously different positions).

1878 got off to a flying start with the sales of Grist & Pollock n the sell on for Dembele. That set the tone and i think that the longer term contracts, the head of recruitment and even the signing of the young Scunny scoring sensation has continued that.
Possible sale of Harry in the summer, with Khouri looking lijke a real prospect and you've got the beginnings of a structure and a production line.

1 thing I like (and is a really positive thing imho) is that we are talking about, and being linked with  players from the region - Smith, Emmanuel & Chadwick from Ull, Shrimpton from the Scunts, Vernam from Lincoln. Add that to the recruitment last year of Maher & Green from Halifax and the established/settled Waterfall, Clifton, Khouri & Efete and you've got a squad with a local or regional identity

What has surprised me about Glennon is that he has looked decidedly sluggish since his return. I don't recall him struggling for pace during his loan spell but he's had a tough time of things against pacy players this season. I think he's probably quick enough for League Two, but he doesn't have much in the tank in this regard and there are a lot of tackles at full-stretch because of it. I'd assume that Khan is likely to be playing on the left for us next season so you wouldn't expect much to change in regards to our attacking/defensive options if both are first choice. That's unless changes to central midfield and up front make a difference. If we were to sign a left-sided forward as quick as Reddy, it could have an effect!

Quoted from Mappers

I think we are taking a hybrid approach in that we are going to /are take snippets from what other clubs are doing well and trying to  add it as we go along .
I am intrigued what difference (if any ) the new recruitment guy will have on summer signings , as he was well thought of at Lincoln signing relatively cheap players who have gone on to be decent ; will be interesting to see if that different set of eyes does mean recruitment differs from previous windows under Hurst .

It will be interesting to see the input the recruitment guy has on new signings. He has had more or less a full season in the job so I presume we have a list of targets once the last game has been played. I hope we make signings early, for a change instead of looking at the bottom of the barrel, preferably by the 2nd week in June. This should help ST sales and give a the summer to look forward to with the onset of the new season.

Quoted from Roast Em Bobby

If my memory serves me correctly, Glennon started very well in his loan spell but his form did tail off a bit towards the end and it was Benson, who started off slow, but then started to look like the stand out player of the two of them that came on loan at the same time (obviously different positions).

Benson has had a superb season at Barnsley by all accounts .

Quoted from DB

It will be interesting to see the input the recruitment guy has on new signings. He has had more or less a full season in the job so I presume we have a list of targets once the last game has been played. I hope we make signings early, for a change instead of looking at the bottom of the barrel, preferably by the 2nd week in June. This should help ST sales and give a the summer to look forward to with the onset of the new season.

I really do feel that, this season more so than ever, for a strong and exciting start to the transfer window, beyond just our own collective sense of impatience.

On the back of our strongest season ticket sales on record, we have gone and recorded one of the worse seasons in living memory in terms of home form. It’s not something that naturally inspires people to shell out another £400 of their hard earned in the midst of a cost of living crisis.

Early signings can alter the mood for the better, and the strength of early ST sales on the back of concrete transfer news will set the tone for the summer. Create that sense of scarcity again early on, and we’ll be ok. Fail to, and it’s an opportunity missed.

Sometimes you have to play the long game in transfer business, and there may still be occasions in the coming months where that remains the best option. But the need for some early buzz is absolutely real in the cold, hard, commercial sense.

Quoted from chaos33

‘Big bucks’? What’s his salary?

He's paid exclusively in venison carcasses, fortnightly, and rumour has it he wears their skin and charges around barnetby top like in 'freddie got fingered'

This data led method to recruitment is certainly the way forward but our January recruitment hardly felt very revolutionary did it?

I think there’s a hell of a lot more to it and we’re probably just scratching the surface of it in terms of capabilities. One things for sure, it needs to be a damn sight more succesful than it was in January for us to even start claiming it’s our ticket to success.

Quoted from DB

It will be interesting to see the input the recruitment guy has on new signings. He has had more or less a full season in the job so I presume we have a list of targets once the last game has been played. I hope we make signings early, for a change instead of looking at the bottom of the barrel, preferably by the 2nd week in June. This should help ST sales and give a the summer to look forward to with the onset of the new season.

I would imagine that PH hopes for that too, especially with, hopefully an increased transfer budget.  What I am sure about is that he won't be sitting in his office waiting until the last two weeks of the window.

Quoted from pontoonlew

This data led method to recruitment is certainly the way forward but our January recruitment hardly felt very revolutionary did it?

I think there’s a hell of a lot more to it and we’re probably just scratching the surface of it in terms of capabilities. One things for sure, it needs to be a damn sight more succesful than it was in January for us to even start claiming it’s our ticket to success.

This video gives an overview of the solution we are using. Quite interesting. Whether it’s any good or not of course I have no idea.

https://youtu.be/rQN5MA08VZY

When did the new recruitment guy come into post?  Was it long enough to really influence things in January?

Either way, January brought Lloyd and Emmanuel.  Now I'm not that bowled over by Emmanuel to be honest but on paper at least he's a very good signing and I can see the potential for him next season definitely, important to not discount the time he's had out the game.

But on paper Lloyd isn't a wow signing.  Struggled to really hold a first team place down and his goals/assists ratio is quite average and that's a kind slant.  But he offers an awful lot of what we've lacked in attack all season.  Be interesting to see if he was someone on Hurst's radar previously or if the recruitment guy put him there.

I don't think January was that bad.  Especially if we keep both Emmanuel and Lloyd with both impressing next season.

Worth remembering that as good as the new recruitment guy might be at finding/identifying players and potential signings, it is ultimately Hurst's call on whether he wants to try and bring them here. And Hurst's ability to entice them to sign for us over any competition.

I'd like to see a visible improvement in the way we recruit (as everyone would) but it almost sounds like some are expecting that the recruitment guy will go out and sign players, rather like a Director of Football type at a prem club.

Quoted from diehardmariner

When did the new recruitment guy come into post?  Was it long enough to really influence things in January?

Appointed at the end of November and can remember Hurst saying he had come with a list of targets to look at ahead of Jan. Ultimately, same as every other aspect of the game, you’re limited by what resource you have. Mentioned it elsewhere recently, but was interested in what happened with the Analysts Bar being asked to assist Paul Fairclough & the England C team -

https://www.analystsbar.com/post/england-xpects

The Analysts Bar are, in essence, 3 stats keenos who run the website on a voluntary basis just as a hobby. Would Hurst & Doig be interested in outsourcing some of the work to a group like that? Probably not.

You can only imagine the amount of work that must go into recruitment if you’re looking across a whole squad each window, especially if there’s only one person doing the donkey work with the spreadsheets. We never had an update on the partnership Loughborough University last season, wonder what came out of that in the end?

Quoted from Tommy

Worth remembering that as good as the new recruitment guy might be at finding/identifying players and potential signings, it is ultimately Hurst's call on whether he wants to try and bring them here. And Hurst's ability to entice them to sign for us over any competition.

I'd like to see a visible improvement in the way we recruit (as everyone would) but it almost sounds like some are expecting that the recruitment guy will go out and sign players, rather like a Director of Football type at a prem club.

Yes does Hurst actually want them, and will he go out purposely and determinedly to get them?

His usual response to questions of whether he is in the market for a player is something like "we have asked the question..."

I always get the impression Hurst is a no nonsense sort of character who will not take kindly to chasing players but prefers to gamble on them not getting better offers. Obviously only Hurst knows how he really feels about transfer windows but I wouldn't say he relishes them.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I always get the impression Hurst is a no nonsense sort of character who will not take kindly to chasing players but prefers to gamble on them not getting better offers. Obviously only Hurst knows how he really feels about transfer windows but I wouldn't say he relishes them.

No managers relish transfer windows.

Apart from Redknapp, Allardyce, Evans and Warnock. I wouldn’t wish to speculate why those four enjoy them of course…

It’s alright finding the players that fit into the squad dynamics. It’s just a case of then getting them to put pen to paper, as we’ve all seen numerous times before.

Quoted from Tommy

Worth remembering that as good as the new recruitment guy might be at finding/identifying players and potential signings, it is ultimately Hurst's call on whether he wants to try and bring them here. And Hurst's ability to entice them to sign for us over any competition.

I'd like to see a visible improvement in the way we recruit (as everyone would) but it almost sounds like some are expecting that the recruitment guy will go out and sign players, rather like a Director of Football type at a prem club.

Hopefully the recruitment guy has not been watching luxury wingers that don't fit our Pauls job description of 'track back and keep us shape ' ,It would be a waste of his time .

I wonder if it's a case of Hurst taking a list of what he wants to the recruitment bod, the recruitment guy presenting him with a list of who he thinks we should sign or a mixture of both ?

Great thoughts as always Tommy , don't go out of my way to praise people on here but your posts are always out the box .

Well done

Neil M

Quoted from Mappers

Hopefully the recruitment guy has not been watching luxury wingers that don't fit our Pauls job description of 'track back and keep us shape ' ,It would be a waste of his time .

Nah, he’s been watching ted lasso

Quoted from Mappers

Hopefully the recruitment guy has not been watching luxury wingers that don't fit our Pauls job description of 'track back and keep us shape ' ,It would be a waste of his time .

I wonder if it's a case of Hurst taking a list of what he wants to the recruitment bod, the recruitment guy presenting him with a list of who he thinks we should sign or a mixture of both ?

Great thoughts as always Tommy , don't go out of my way to praise people on here but your posts are always out the box .

Well done

Neil M

I would be amazed if the Head of Recruitment was not working in partnership with the manager as opposed to isolated and presenting suggestions unguided.

Without ever being part of a professional football club to say with experience, I'd say that PH, CD and HoR will have semi-regular conversations about plans for how PH intends the team to play, what players he's currently happy with, what failings he thinks we have and the HoR is responsible for identifying players that best fit the bill.

It won't remove the 'looking' at players but it will the search for players more targeted and possibly widespread, in turn preventing wasted time and journeys on players who may have come recommended and are actually pants. Having a deeper knowledge of who is out there and someone dedicating their time to deciphering how worthy they are of follow up work from PH to make his judgements is at worst more efficient and at best a recipe for vastly improved future Grimsby Town teams.

Need to know why Glennon has suddenly lost his speed, leading to rash late tackles - he has been snottered by quick players on several occasions.

Raikhy would be a good call for next season with a further year of developing.

If we can keep Smith and Emmanuel, persuade Lloyd to move here, maybe get in Chadwick as well, then let the Recruitment Head work for his salary.

Is Vernam still a supposed firm signing?

The lack of physicality at this level has been a downfall in tight games when teams have bossed us, so we need to match up, as well as tighten up on possession passing  especially if Hurst wants to bring in short goal kick tactics.

Success will be 2 new rough diamonds found, on top of the known targets, who can then be immediate potential first teamers once pre season has finished.

Quoted from acko338

Is Vernam still a supposed firm signing?

I'll honestly be amazed if this doesn't happen this summer.  

Instantly regretted making the move to Lincoln over us in the summer, especially when Kennedy made his mind up about him pretty quickly.  (It was Kennedy that signed him but I can only guess on the advice of someone else, perhaps the recruitment guy who is now here).   Was desperate to make the move in January but Lincoln wouldn't let him go unless they got someone in to replace him, even as back-up.

Lincoln wanted to bring Anthony Scully back from Wigan in January, which was the transfer that didn't happen that held up any Vernam move.  Scully is, by all accounts, free to leave Wigan in the summer and Kennedy is desperate to get him back.  But I suppose with Wigan dropping back into League One they may want to reassess for a player who did impress at that level as recently as 9 months ago.

Either way though, I can't see Lincoln wanting to keep Vernam.  I do wonder if Hurst's stubbornness might come into play here though, which could work either way here.  On one hand he might decide having waited on Vernam in each of the two previous transfer windows and left empty handed, he feels it's not worth the effort.  Or he could be like a dog with a bone and refuse to give it up...

If, as I think he will, Hurst pursues this one, I hope to god we get it over the line early doors or just draw a line under it.  I can't be arsed with waiting on the same player every bloody transfer window.  Vernam's a good player and I think he'll be a good addition to our squad.  But he's not peak-Maradona.  Get the offer on the table, either signed or walk away and look elsewhere.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

I'll honestly be amazed if this doesn't happen this summer.  

Instantly regretted making the move to Lincoln over us in the summer, especially when Kennedy made his mind up about him pretty quickly.  (It was Kennedy that signed him but I can only guess on the advice of someone else, perhaps the recruitment guy who is now here).   Was desperate to make the move in January but Lincoln wouldn't let him go unless they got someone in to replace him, even as back-up.

Lincoln wanted to bring Anthony Scully back from Wigan in January, which was the transfer that didn't happen that held up any Vernam move.  Scully is, by all accounts, free to leave Wigan in the summer and Kennedy is desperate to get him back.  But I suppose with Wigan dropping back into League One they may want to reassess for a player who did impress at that level as recently as 9 months ago.

Either way though, I can't see Lincoln wanting to keep Vernam.  I do wonder if Hurst's stubbornness might come into play here though, which could work either way here.  On one hand he might decide having waited on Vernam in each of the two previous transfer windows and left empty handed, he feels it's not worth the effort.  Or he could be like a dog with a bone and refuse to give it up...

If, as I think he will, Hurst pursues this one, I hope to god we get it over the line early doors or just draw a line under it.  I can't be arsed with waiting on the same player every bloody transfer window.  Vernam's a good player and I think he'll be a good addition to our squad.  But he's not peak-Maradona.  Get the offer on the table, either signed or walk away and look elsewhere.  

That's not what I was told.  Lincoln wouldn't release Vernam until they had his replacement who was coming from Portsmouth [Recco Hackett-Fairchild] but they in turn wanted to confirm a player in from Exeter and that fell through.  That scuppered Vernams move to Town.

Fair enough, I'm not gonna argue with you on the details of who's in for who.

The consistent point, again, is that Town got caught up in a chain of events.  Partly that's the nature of sitting so far down the chain, but it sits uncomfortably with me that we seem to forever get caught up in it and rarely with a successful outcome.  I'd like us to get our bigger bits of business done early.  On so many levels that statement of intent works wonders.  It creates a buzz which can only help with ticket sales but perhaps more importantly it shows we're serious to other players who will look at who we've signed and think we've got a chance of challenging.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I'll honestly be amazed if this doesn't happen this summer.  

Instantly regretted making the move to Lincoln over us in the summer, especially when Kennedy made his mind up about him pretty quickly.  (It was Kennedy that signed him but I can only guess on the advice of someone else, perhaps the recruitment guy who is now here).   Was desperate to make the move in January but Lincoln wouldn't let him go unless they got someone in to replace him, even as back-up.

Lincoln wanted to bring Anthony Scully back from Wigan in January, which was the transfer that didn't happen that held up any Vernam move.  Scully is, by all accounts, free to leave Wigan in the summer and Kennedy is desperate to get him back.  But I suppose with Wigan dropping back into League One they may want to reassess for a player who did impress at that level as recently as 9 months ago.

Either way though, I can't see Lincoln wanting to keep Vernam.  I do wonder if Hurst's stubbornness might come into play here though, which could work either way here.  On one hand he might decide having waited on Vernam in each of the two previous transfer windows and left empty handed, he feels it's not worth the effort.  Or he could be like a dog with a bone and refuse to give it up...

If, as I think he will, Hurst pursues this one, I hope to god we get it over the line early doors or just draw a line under it.  I can't be arsed with waiting on the same player every bloody transfer window.  Vernam's a good player and I think he'll be a good addition to our squad.  But he's not peak-Maradona.  Get the offer on the table, either signed or walk away and look elsewhere.  

Agree entirely

Quoted from Poojah

Is this not a slight oversimplification of the “Brighton / Brentford” model, and a slight exaggeration of our current recruitment capabilities? My understanding is that we now have a full-time employee reviewing gold standard data, watching footage and presumably attending games in which prospective targets are playing (or at least extending that responsibility to our scouting network).

In effect, we have someone dedicated to a role which previously would have had to be covered by the manager and his coaching team. That’s a massive step forward and should absolutely improve our recruitment results, but we’re not quite adopting a “moneyball” type model just yet, are we? To do what Brighton and Brentford are doing, even at a lower level of the game, presumably has associated costs and complexities which make it prohibitively difficult to emulate, else everyone would be doing it, wouldn’t they?

I believe we’re further down the moneyball route than you think. We have a data analysis that joined us from Lincoln City. His role is far more about data and statistics than watching videos and attending games.

His role is to know what good/excellence looks like at this level from the formation and style of play we adopt going forward and identify players with statistics to match that. Even at Rochdale & Hartlepool there will be players with statistics that will suggest they could flourish in a different environment and with better players around them.

Gut instinct and knowing the character of the player will of course still be important, but data will be more important going forward.

Quoted from 123614

That's not what I was told.  Lincoln wouldn't release Vernam until they had his replacement who was coming from Portsmouth [Recco Hackett-Fairchild] but they in turn wanted to confirm a player in from Exeter and that fell through.  That scuppered Vernams move to Town.

Lincoln probably had a few potential Vernam replacements identified and none of them came off. So you’re probably both right.

Lincoln were probably aware that Jack Diamond had been under police investigation since May 2022 and were being extra careful with numbers incase he became unavailable (as happened at the end of March).

Quoted from diehardmariner

Fair enough, I'm not gonna argue with you on the details of who's in for who.

The consistent point, again, is that Town got caught up in a chain of events.  Partly that's the nature of sitting so far down the chain, but it sits uncomfortably with me that we seem to forever get caught up in it and rarely with a successful outcome.  I'd like us to get our bigger bits of business done early.  On so many levels that statement of intent works wonders.  It creates a buzz which can only help with ticket sales but perhaps more importantly it shows we're serious to other players who will look at who we've signed and think we've got a chance of challenging.

I'm not arguing mate, the thing is about a chain, is that, in this case, 3 different clubs involved as well as us, then anything can go wrong, as proved in this attempted signing.  Also I think it's unfair to say we should get our bigger bits of business done early.  I cannot imagine PH just sits on his backside at the beginning of the window waiting for something to happen, in fact we know from his own mouth that he has been speaking to several players already.

I don't think it's unfair to be honest.  It's no secret that we've missed out on the players we've really wanted consistently.  

At no point am I saying Hurst is sitting on his bottom just waiting for something to happen.  But I do think we're possibly reactive in the transfer market rather than proactive.  Vernam is just one example of us waiting and waiting on the first target, only to find that they say no and the second, third, fourth targets have all signed up with someone else.  There's an art to biding your time but there's also an art to calling teams bluff.  

It might be a case, using Vernam as the example, that Lincoln weren't prepared to let him go under any circumstances until they had the replacement through the door.  But I also wonder, perhaps unfairly here, what would have been the outcome had Hurst said 'look, we'll take him today but we won't tomorrow...your call'.  Equally so when Vernam was talking with us last summer, did we say 'contract comes off the table in 36 hours.  We're not waiting forever on you'.  To be honest I don't think we did.  Again, it's an art to calling someone's bluff.  But I know we were in talks with Vernam for well over a week before he got his head turned by Lincoln.

Regards the Scully/Hackett-Fairchild point - no argument from me here, Golly sums it up that we're both likely right and that chain (as you point out too) is complicated by many factors.  It's a tough one but unless we look to disrupt that chain ourselves and try and jump ahead of that natural pecking order, we're always likely to end up with players that aren't our first choices.

Window after window we've waited for everything to fall into place, to my knowledge that hasn't worked.  Worst thing we can do is try something different and a bit bolder.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I don't think it's unfair to be honest.  It's no secret that we've missed out on the players we've really wanted consistently.  

At no point am I saying Hurst is sitting on his bottom just waiting for something to happen.  But I do think we're possibly reactive in the transfer market rather than proactive.  Vernam is just one example of us waiting and waiting on the first target, only to find that they say no and the second, third, fourth targets have all signed up with someone else.  There's an art to biding your time but there's also an art to calling teams bluff.  

It might be a case, using Vernam as the example, that Lincoln weren't prepared to let him go under any circumstances until they had the replacement through the door.  But I also wonder, perhaps unfairly here, what would have been the outcome had Hurst said 'look, we'll take him today but we won't tomorrow...your call'.  Equally so when Vernam was talking with us last summer, did we say 'contract comes off the table in 36 hours.  We're not waiting forever on you'.  To be honest I don't think we did.  Again, it's an art to calling someone's bluff.  But I know we were in talks with Vernam for well over a week before he got his head turned by Lincoln.

Regards the Scully/Hackett-Fairchild point - no argument from me here, Golly sums it up that we're both likely right and that chain (as you point out too) is complicated by many factors.  It's a tough one but unless we look to disrupt that chain ourselves and try and jump ahead of that natural pecking order, we're always likely to end up with players that aren't our first choices.

Window after window we've waited for everything to fall into place, to my knowledge that hasn't worked.  Worst thing we can do is try something different and a bit bolder.

We are very much reactive rather than proactive. It is clear with everything Hurst says. In a seller's market, you have to be proactive most of the time; players need to be wanted and you have to woo them with salary, perks and aspirations and do the chasing. Waiting for things to fall into place is not going to work unless you are just going to work down your list till you get towards the bottom.  

Quoted from diehardmariner

I don't think it's unfair to be honest.  It's no secret that we've missed out on the players we've really wanted consistently.  

At no point am I saying Hurst is sitting on his bottom just waiting for something to happen.  But I do think we're possibly reactive in the transfer market rather than proactive.  Vernam is just one example of us waiting and waiting on the first target, only to find that they say no and the second, third, fourth targets have all signed up with someone else.  There's an art to biding your time but there's also an art to calling teams bluff.  

It might be a case, using Vernam as the example, that Lincoln weren't prepared to let him go under any circumstances until they had the replacement through the door.  But I also wonder, perhaps unfairly here, what would have been the outcome had Hurst said 'look, we'll take him today but we won't tomorrow...your call'.  Equally so when Vernam was talking with us last summer, did we say 'contract comes off the table in 36 hours.  We're not waiting forever on you'.  To be honest I don't think we did.  Again, it's an art to calling someone's bluff.  But I know we were in talks with Vernam for well over a week before he got his head turned by Lincoln.

Regards the Scully/Hackett-Fairchild point - no argument from me here, Golly sums it up that we're both likely right and that chain (as you point out too) is complicated by many factors.  It's a tough one but unless we look to disrupt that chain ourselves and try and jump ahead of that natural pecking order, we're always likely to end up with players that aren't our first choices.

Window after window we've waited for everything to fall into place, to my knowledge that hasn't worked.  Worst thing we can do is try something different and a bit bolder.

It's that fine balance between being too ruthless and too compassionate. If you have an abundance of high quality options, you can afford to be very ruthless but for a variety of factors, I think we have had to play the long game and not draw a line in the sand because then you look even more of a prat if you're still looking and they do become available.

Hopefully this summer, with time on our side and a Head of Recruitment settled in, we can be a bit more ruthless, and get some good business done early.

Quoted from diehardmariner

I don't think it's unfair to be honest.  It's no secret that we've missed out on the players we've really wanted consistently.  

At no point am I saying Hurst is sitting on his bottom just waiting for something to happen.  But I do think we're possibly reactive in the transfer market rather than proactive.  Vernam is just one example of us waiting and waiting on the first target, only to find that they say no and the second, third, fourth targets have all signed up with someone else.  There's an art to biding your time but there's also an art to calling teams bluff.  

It might be a case, using Vernam as the example, that Lincoln weren't prepared to let him go under any circumstances until they had the replacement through the door.  But I also wonder, perhaps unfairly here, what would have been the outcome had Hurst said 'look, we'll take him today but we won't tomorrow...your call'.  Equally so when Vernam was talking with us last summer, did we say 'contract comes off the table in 36 hours.  We're not waiting forever on you'.  To be honest I don't think we did.  Again, it's an art to calling someone's bluff.  But I know we were in talks with Vernam for well over a week before he got his head turned by Lincoln.

Regards the Scully/Hackett-Fairchild point - no argument from me here, Golly sums it up that we're both likely right and that chain (as you point out too) is complicated by many factors.  It's a tough one but unless we look to disrupt that chain ourselves and try and jump ahead of that natural pecking order, we're always likely to end up with players that aren't our first choices.

Window after window we've waited for everything to fall into place, to my knowledge that hasn't worked.  Worst thing we can do is try something different and a bit bolder.

I get what you're saying, but to be fair again, we are, and have been, talking to 2-3 players in the last two weeks, this is from Hurst himself, this is being proactive.

Don'y know why we are after Vernam, no consistency.

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Don'y know why we are after Vernam, no consistency.

Which is why he's a league 2 player...
If he was consistently good, we wouldn't have a chance

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Don'y know why we are after Vernam, no consistency.

Shock horror that an attacking player in L2 is not consistent.

Quoted from Madeleymariner

Don'y know why we are after Vernam, no consistency.

Played just over a 100 games at this level (about 70 starts), scored 23 goals. For a wide forward that is pretty good.

Quoted from Jarmo.Is.God

Which is why he's a league 2 player...
If he was consistently good, we wouldn't have a chance

I'm pretty sure that Lincoln are in League 1?

Quoted from headingly_mariner

Played just over a 100 games at this level (about 70 starts), scored 23 goals. For a wide forward that is pretty good.

ffs Headingley , how dare you come on here with your facts and attempt to destroy misconceptions! damn you!

Quoted from jamesgtfc

It's that fine balance between being too ruthless and too compassionate. If you have an abundance of high quality options, you can afford to be very ruthless but for a variety of factors, I think we have had to play the long game and not draw a line in the sand because then you look even more of a prat if you're still looking and they do become available.

Hopefully this summer, with time on our side and a Head of Recruitment settled in, we can be a bit more ruthless, and get some good business done early.

No excuses this coming close season, no tight fisted Fenty, as much time as every other club and hopefully some of the cup cash and a head of recruitment to do all the leg work.

Quoted from arryarryarry

No excuses this coming close season, no tight fisted Fenty, as much time as every other club and hopefully some of the cup cash and a head of recruitment to do all the leg work.

Does that work against us then as agents will presume that we’ve got loads of cash to throw at their players.

I agree wholeheartedly that it would be great to get every signing sorted before the beginning of July, but I’d reckon the majority of (decent standard) players will have a couple of offers and would see what else is forthcoming. It’s a waiting game and at times calling one another’s bluff I’d say

I think many will be shocked at what the player budget is and at what levels we will be looking .I could almost guarantee our budget will probably not be in the top 10 and our incomings will mostly be from the National League or lower .

Could you aye? 🙄

Quoted from Norseman

I think many will be shocked at what the player budget is and at what levels we will be looking .I could almost guarantee our budget will probably not be in the top 10 and our incomings will mostly be from the National League or lower .

We can only speculate but you would assume it will be somewhere between 8-12th budget wise- definately competetive enough for a play
off spot .

I would be happy to go back to the NL for players , it's just finding the right diamonds in the rough -the lincoln recruitment guy has previous with Ben House I saw him for Eastleigh a few times and was mind blown that Lincoln took a gamble on him as he did not look much at all ; by all accounts he's now a 1mil+ player . We need to hope this recruitment guy 'gets us one ' this summer .

Quoted from Norseman

I think many will be shocked at what the player budget is and at what levels we will be looking .I could almost guarantee our budget will probably not be in the top 10 and our incomings will mostly be from the National League or lower .

It will be good to re-visit this post when the summer window closes.

The thing is with the Transfer Window that it is not just like seeing something on a supermarket shelf, picking it up and paying for it at the checkout.  You might say, well that's obvious, but every transfer window we have, and will see again people moaning that we didn't get x and we didn't get y.  As I said many, many times during the January transfer window, there are far more parameters for getting a player to sign for us than just putting down a wedge of money, and saying take it or leave it.  I have no doubt that the money side of things is a big part of whether or not a player signs for us, but that is not the be all and end all of negotiations.

I'm fairly sure that most of the posters on here are well aware of the intricacies of getting a players signature and that sometimes we won't be able to compete with other clubs financially, that's just tough luck and certainly not PH's fault.  Anyway, lets hope for a good window and see what PH pulls out of the bag.  UTM.

Quoted from Norseman

I think many will be shocked at what the player budget is and at what levels we will be looking .I could almost guarantee our budget will probably not be in the top 10 and our incomings will mostly be from the National League or lower .

I expect us to have a mid table League 2 budget which is light years away from where we were three years ago. What remains the concern is persuading decent players that we are a better option than other clubs with similar budgets.