Adapting to a Style of Play

Quoted from Theimperialcoroner

All of this noise around our style of play at the moment seems very reminiscent of AB1. Were we not right near the bottom of the league by late October of his first season as the players took time to adapt? I’m sure we then went on a bit of a run leading to a decent finish with promotion the following season. (My memory may be a little muddled here)
Point I’m making is if we do allow the process to work then the potential riches are there. It’s taking a huge leap of faith to stay with it though as everyone knows quite how shite the alternative outcome is.

Worth remembering with Alan Buckley though that at a fans forum in his 3rd spell he mentioned how we had been repeatedly falling behind in the first minute or 2 of several games on the trot. He said he then gave instructions to his left back that from kick off in the next game it was to be played back to him and he was to launch it into the oppo corner flag and we were to close them down and make sure we got through the first couple of minutes and build into the game. He admitted it was totally against his principles but it was all about making sure we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot again.

Buckley was a stubborn manager, all the greats are, but he knew when to bend rather than break.

You don't get good at something by abandoning something when you make an error. You don't improve players decision making by giving them conflicting information. Passing may risk errors that could lead to opportunities but it also takes the heat off a team when they're under the cosh for 10 mins as you can hold on to it and take the sting out of it. It likely reduces goals conceded even if it may seem obvious the goals conceded doing that. Artell said if you concede 1 every 10 or 12 from doing it, but benefit from it a lot, it's worth it. Top teams do it and they occasionally mess up. Yes, we're not Man City, but also, we're not playing premier league teams every week.

If sticking to this style gives players a clearer idea of what they need to do and we can minimise and reduce the errors, I'd be in favour of sticking with it. If players hoof it up sporadically when the pressure is too much, also, fine. However, the decision should be the managers. I don't like fans trying to dictate how we should play. Many are bashing Stockdale for imposing a style on us, yet are trying to impose their own risk free approach. We went with Artell rather than Hurst, so that was the decision. We support it, move on, and hope it improves, and with that I certainly mean consistency, but we shouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

You have to say that trying it with the current set of donkeys when you're near the bottom of the league is a very risky strategy and currently one that's looking like poor judgement.

Playing out isn't a bad thing, unless you come up against teams who want to press you really hard and are in your faces constantly. Feels like it's relatively easy to play against if you're willing to put the efforts out of possession.

But that is the intention of playing out from the back. You draw the opposition to you and play through the press, which gives you the space and spare men to attack.

We are just not that good at it yet. The question is how long do you keep playing this way and hoping it clicks before we get relegated?

We've actually looked good doing it in some games, but failed to take the three points too many times. MK Dons, Notts County and Accrington yielded 3 points but should have been 7 and could have been 9.

Some interesting comments and very unfishylike sensible discussion.

For me we have to try to play football because they’d be even worse at the alternative more direct option. That’s what did my head in with the boos Vs Stockport. We we eventually tried hoofing it up for Rose to try and win it against their massive CBs, he tries but it’s not a game plan.
Now I’m not comparing Artell to AB, but one thing the latter did was make sure all his players knew what to do. Full backs were instructed to pass to one of two players for example and that’s mostly what they did. I just hope DA does it similarly simple.

There is the right time to play different ways but now when we are so close to going down again is not the time.

When we are safe or if we were middle of the table with plenty of points between us and the bottom two yes try something new.

If we carry on giving goals away and not winning games we could have done we will find ourselves wanting to win a.game to stay up come the last match of the season.

Come on Dave let's win a few games.before you experiment with different tactics.

Quoted from grimsby pete

There is the right time to play different ways but now when we are so close to going down again is not the time.

When we are safe or if we were middle of the table with plenty of points between us and the bottom two yes try something new.

If we carry on giving goals away and not winning games we could have done we will find ourselves wanting to win a.game to stay up come the last match of the season.

Come on Dave let's win a few games.before you experiment with different tactics.

Pete, the problem is that we’re now between a rock and a hard place. The players he’s brought in will be coached to play his way. My concern is that the trend is backwards. The best performances in his reign were towards the beginning, most recent less so.

Quoted from MrThirsty

What AB1 had that DA doesn’t, from memory so apologies if wrong and for any omissions, was a good keeper (Sherwood), defence (Lever, Tilson, Agnew, McDermott), midfield, (Cunnington, Cockers, Gilbert, Jobling) and forwards (Rees, big Keith, North), Most of these held their own when we got to what is now championship level. Hopefully DA can keep us up but I think he may have to be more pragmatic in the short term to achieve long term goals.

Some great discussion on here.
In Artell's defence, i think when AB came in Lever, Agnew, McDermott Cunnington Jobling and North were already here, the rest he brought in and also had the benefit of a preseason to implement the style (which was hit and miss at the start).

In contrast, Artell came in mid season on the end of a massive downward slump in form, has changed 6 players in the January window, and brought in a new and totally different style of play. It was always going to be a challenge.

I agree that pragmatism is important in the short term, but reflecting on what i wrote last night about managing the change carefully... i think its difficult for Artell as this is his only style of play and you can't really half do it.

I'm interested what everyone thinks?...
When we talk about pragmatism.. what is Artell supposed to do? How does he be pragmatic..?  

Stick with Hurst's style of play until the end of the season and try and make it work?
Bring in different players?
Change it up and knock it long when we don't have a target man?
Buy a lump to stick up front? (TBH i wouldn't mind us having this as a plan B)

I think Its SH*T or bust for Artell...he has no choice but to try and make his style work.

i know Hull are a totally different story with their wage bill and quality of player but  there are teams like Notts playing this way...I think in the next few seasons it will become the norm for pro teams.

All we can do is get behind the team and hope it comes off. UTM.

The Stockport commentators were saying that it may look bad at the moment but will pay dividends next season. Unfortunately for us, most of this squad are out of contract or loan players that will provide no benefits whatsoever for us.
We need points rather than pretty football although some people said they'd be happy to lose playing football rather than watching Hurstball.
I believe ( my opinion) that we'd have been in a much better position if we'd given Hurst the January window to sort it out. Was it 12 without a win in non league?
We lost 20 odd points from winning positions under Hurst. How many times have we scored 1st under Artell?
They say be careful what you wish for, this may be one of those moments if he doesn't realise everyone now knows how to play against us.

Didn’t sides know how to play against us under PH and previous Managers? Most teams have a style of play and one of the key criticisms of PH was that he put too much emphasis on the opposition and adjusted accordingly whereas DA is this is how we play and if we play it well we will win more than we lose.

Obviously that’s not worked yet but we did take the lead v Walsall and 2 goal lead v County and for 30 minutes in each match looked more than a decent team. Unfortunately, IMO, despite the major criticism of the defensive unit it’s our midfield that’s the major problem. Unless Thompson is the answer, he wasn’t on Saturday, then non of our midfield players show for the ball which makes Rodgers and Maher continually pass square or back or after a quick barracking from the BP faithful panic and hoof it of touch.

We as fans have been starved of decent football at BP for quite sometime but particularly since our recent return to EFL which, in my mind, has made us less tolerant to what many see as fannying around at the back. Add to this the fear of a third relegation to oblivion in 14 years and it’s going to take some real backbone to stick with our current tactics at BP. I like many get palpitations when we are doing it but don’t feel there is any merit in booing at players and shouting get it forward every two seconds thus spreading my anxiety onto the players. We really have to bite our lip and support the efforts to introduce this new style over the coming weeks if we are to get the results to move us upwards.

I’m not convinced by DA but was heartily sick of watching Hurst’s pragmatic, or dreadfully dull, way of playing so I’m hoping this is a journey worth going on and will personally try and support our players as they try and get a grip on the new approach.

Quoted from Wedidntdidwe

The Stockport commentators were saying that it may look bad at the moment but will pay dividends next season. Unfortunately for us, most of this squad are out of contract or loan players that will provide no benefits whatsoever for us.
We need points rather than pretty football although some people said they'd be happy to lose playing football rather than watching Hurstball.
I believe ( my opinion) that we'd have been in a much better position if we'd given Hurst the January window to sort it out. Was it 12 without a win in non league?
We lost 20 odd points from winning positions under Hurst. How many times have we scored 1st under Artell?
They say be careful what you wish for, this may be one of those moments if he doesn't realise everyone now knows how to play against us.

Hurst had lost 5 on the bounce prior to getting sacked, including against Colchester & Donny in successive games. We’d lost 9 of his final 12 registering just one win in that run. When he was appointed in 20/21, we were 3pts clear of the drop zone & he proceeded to win 1 of his first 14, losing 8, by which time we were bottom & 10pts adrift.

I see people are back to using the term “pragmatic” as a euphemism for “defensive” and “unambitious”. Maybe setting up to not concede & sticking 10 behind the ball all game might work on occasion but you’re unlikely to win many. If your defenders aren’t very good, you’re always likely to concede, so why not play a way that might get you a few more chances at the other end?

I can’t say I’m mad keen on the bloke, but from Artell’s 11 league games we’ve played 6 of the current top 8, top-half Accrington plus Newport and Tranmere who are 5th & 8th in the form table over the last 12 games. Selective use of stats, perhaps, and there’s been some real awful performances in there, but he’s not had the easiest of runs.

Sometimes fortune favours the brave. Hurst always went back to what he knew, keep it solid & hope to nick one, even at home. You need three really good defensive performances like that to get you as many points as one good attacking performance.

20/21 showed that “pragmatism” isn’t always shutting up shop - you need to win games.