21st Group data analysis.

There is an article on Twitter about the 21st Group who help with our data analysis.

According to their graphics and reasoning we are on course to pick up between 56 and 58 points so no need to change the manager.

That's alright then, we can all sleep easy and stop worrying for the next few months, and just sit back and enjoy turgid, unexciting and boring football till May safe in the knowledge we won't be relegated.

If the owners are giving much credence to this nonsense they want their heads examining.

Playing as we are will result in a relegation battle whatever they may think.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

There is an article on Twitter about the 21st Group who help with our data analysis.

According to their graphics and reasoning we are on course to pick up between 56 and 58 points so no need to change the manager.

That's alright then, we can all sleep easy and stop worrying for the next few months, and just sit back and enjoy turgid, unexciting and boring football till May safe in the knowledge we won't be relegated.

If the owners are giving much credence to this nonsense they want their heads examining.

Playing as we are will result in a relegation battle whatever they may think.

Data seems to have wronged you in a way you can't forget  
Did you get dumped by an excel spreadsheet as a teenager or something?

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics  

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

There is an article on Twitter about the 21st Group who help with our data analysis.

According to their graphics and reasoning we are on course to pick up between 56 and 58 points so no need to change the manager.

That's alright then, we can all sleep easy and stop worrying for the next few months, and just sit back and enjoy turgid, unexciting and boring football till May safe in the knowledge we won't be relegated.

If the owners are giving much credence to this nonsense they want their heads examining.

Playing as we are will result in a relegation battle whatever they may think.

Thanks for that. Needed something to inspire me.....

Put the link up then ffs

Anytime data & technology has been discussed by the board and management they've made it abundantly clear it's just there to support/assist what they do, but sure lets have a go at them all and act like they're blindly being lead by the stuff.

Quoted from sam gy

Anytime data & technology has been discussed by the board and management they've made it abundantly clear it's just there to support/assist what they do, but sure lets have a go at them all and act like they're blindly being lead by the stuff.

Well it's a bloody hindrance then. If data has supported/assisted getting players in who can't string two passes together, can't take a set piece or try something new from a throw in.

Of course they are being led by it; they've put great store by it and they said it isn't cheap so will be using it as much as possible or its money down the drain.

In the end common sense will overrule any data as the idea that fans will put up with the dross being served is for the birds.

Loads of teams throughout the EFL will be using data & tech in a similar way to us - some will have crap seasons and some will have good seasons. It's still football.

Come on Lew, I agree with a lot of your recent posts but think you're misunderstanding how this whole data thing is being used.

Paul Hurst, more so than any other manager in the league I would say, would not sign a player purely from some stats or data. He has always made it clear that stats only tell you so much and he's always insisted on judging a player with his own eyes.

So there's no way we are signing players just based from data. The data might help us identify players to focus or target scouting resources at, and/or for Hurst to go out and watch himself. Hurst has made it known that a pair of eyes can tell you more about a player than some stats, so it will only be helping him and the recruitment team identify possible targets to then go out and scout.  Surely no-one would have an issue with that?

Interesting that they have 5 teams diown as automatic promotion when there are only 3 places.

Quoted from sam gy

Anytime data & technology has been discussed by the board and management they've made it abundantly clear it's just there to support/assist what they do, but sure lets have a go at them all and act like they're blindly being lead by the stuff.

Yeah lets. Because from my seat in the Main Stand, we look like eleven individuals who met down the pub on Thursday night after a kickabout.

And what, we’d be playing like Brazil if we didn’t use any data at all?

Quoted from sam gy

And what, we’d be playing like Brazil if we didn’t use any data at all?

Not really the point, is it?

I get that data plays a part but it's up to the management, staff and players to take advantage. At the minute, we look less cohesive than we did in pre season - that's surely a worry.

Quoted from HerveJosse

Interesting that they have 5 teams diown as automatic promotion when there are only 3 places.

I expect it would depend on the error bars of their calculation. They obviously know there are only 3 automatic promotion places and they have a load of clubs within the 'play-off' window in their calculation as well.

Notably, they don't list any clubs expected to be relegated, either, because it's too far out to say after a little over a quarter of the season.

Statistics really can be a sodomist to work out and I'd imagine they are using an extremely complicated model. How much relevance it can have to the real world at such an early stage of the season must be in doubt. After Christmas, the error bars are likely to have narrowed and you would expect that it will provide more accurate results. If the model is any good!

Sure it's a worry...but i doubt the use of data is to blame for that.

At the minute it just feels like people are clamouring to find anything and anyone for our poor form and it's just a bit daft....

Our coaches played in defence, our owner writes for the guardian, Steve Croudson shouts instructions, we're using more data..

Quoted from Tommy

Come on Lew, I agree with a lot of your recent posts but think you're misunderstanding how this whole data thing is being used.

Paul Hurst, more so than any other manager in the league I would say, would not sign a player purely from some stats or data. He has always made it clear that stats only tell you so much and he's always insisted on judging a player with his own eyes.

So there's no way we are signing players just based from data. The data might help us identify players to focus or target scouting resources at, and/or for Hurst to go out and watch himself. Hurst has made it known that a pair of eyes can tell you more about a player than some stats, so it will only be helping him and the recruitment team identify possible targets to then go out and scout.  Surely no-one would have an issue with that?

I am playing devil's advocate to a degree I admit.

But even in the example of scouting players you quote, what they may or may not have done in the past will bear no resemblance whatever to how they might perform here, for better or worse.

Its a different environment, different managers, different teammates, different standards. Everything is different. In the case of Pyke a different position.

Hunt would perhaps thrive at another club; I bet his stats are terrible which would rule him out if other clubs were looking for a playmaker. Or ironically, his stats might be good compared to players who play a lot of games.

If stats played any part in recruiting those players in the summer, did it take into account how they might play in a rigid, defensive set-up, with players who can't pass the ball to them or take a set piece? The answer is no, so just like a player being recommended it is just an educated guess, which brings me to the obvious thing - what is the bloody point?

The only answer seems to be that other clubs use it and there will still be some teams promoted and some relegated.

Quoted from Maringer

I expect it would depend on the error bars of their calculation. They obviously know there are only 3 automatic promotion places and they have a load of clubs within the 'play-off' window in their calculation as well.

Notably, they don't list any clubs expected to be relegated, either, because it's too far out to say after a little over a quarter of the season.

Statistics really can be a sodomist to work out and I'd imagine they are using an extremely complicated model. How much relevance it can have to the real world at such an early stage of the season must be in doubt. After Christmas, the error bars are likely to have narrowed and you would expect that it will provide more accurate results. If the model is any good!

Exactly! And funnily enough their "predictions" will be almost spot on by the end of April!

Quoted from sam gy

Loads of teams throughout the EFL will be using data & tech in a similar way to us - some will have crap seasons and some will have good seasons. It's still football.

Why not go the whole Hog. Just plug this into EA Sports FC24, and all Fans (Real Fans that is) can join in Via Zoom, singing their favourite songs. Just think of the carbon footprint we save, and No Drum beating or smell of Bovril. Oh what larks we shall have. No ground maintenance, we can have a Blundel Park Superdome on the Moon, Hursty can run it all from home (just like our Civil Service)

  Oh if only life solutions were that simple.     These Magic solutions always smell of Snake Oil to me.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Not really the point, is it?

I get that data plays a part but it's up to the management, staff and players to take advantage. At the minute, we look less cohesive than we did in pre season - that's surely a worry.

Perhaps we are applying Forecasting software designed for Premier Div in League 2, and GTFC players can't cope and hence play so disjointly. I mean, if you plug an F1 computer into a Disability Scooter something strange will happen.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I am playing devil's advocate to a degree I admit.

But even in the example of scouting players you quote, what they may or may not have done in the past will bear no resemblance whatever to how they might perform here, for better or worse.

Its a different environment, different managers, different teammates, different standards. Everything is different. In the case of Pyke a different position.

Hunt would perhaps thrive at another club; I bet his stats are terrible which would rule him out if other clubs were looking for a playmaker. Or ironically, his stats might be good compared to players who play a lot of games.

If stats played any part in recruiting those players in the summer, did it take into account how they might play in a rigid, defensive set-up, with players who can't pass the ball to them or take a set piece? The answer is no, so just like a player being recommended it is just an educated guess, which brings me to the obvious thing - what is the bloody point?

The only answer seems to be that other clubs use it and there will still be some teams promoted and some relegated.

I doubt players wouldn't have been signed on statistics alone.

I'm guessing there would have been hundreds of players available to the club. Statistics would have helped to identify players that the club felt where a good fit. Scouting knowledge etc would have been used to narrow this down further. So the club is left with a list of targets to go for.

There is no process that is fool proof when signing players and things sometimes don't work out for a player for a number of reasons. Even some of the best managers in the game have made bad signings.

Perhaps our issue atm is the number of signings made over the summer and getting them to gel. It was a tough start to the season and we seem to be finding new ways to throw matches away rather than getting outplayed. I don't think we are likely to go down and I think the table based on the 21st group data is probably not too wide of the mark.

Quoted from GrimPol

Why not go the whole Hog. Just plug this into EA Sports FC24, and all Fans (Real Fans that is) can join in Via Zoom, singing their favourite songs. Just think of the carbon footprint we save, and No Drum beating or smell of Bovril. Oh what larks we shall have. No ground maintenance, we can have a Blundel Park Superdome on the Moon, Hursty can run it all from home (just like our Civil Service)

  Oh if only life solutions were that simple.     These Magic solutions always smell of Snake Oil to me.

Agreed. It seems like it should improve your chances but doesn’t take human fallibility into account. That’s probably why I’m excrement at FIFA or whatever it’s called now.

Quoted from GrimPol

Why not go the whole Hog. Just plug this into EA Sports FC24, and all Fans (Real Fans that is) can join in Via Zoom, singing their favourite songs. Just think of the carbon footprint we save, and No Drum beating or smell of Bovril. Oh what larks we shall have. No ground maintenance, we can have a Blundel Park Superdome on the Moon, Hursty can run it all from home (just like our Civil Service)

  Oh if only life solutions were that simple.     These Magic solutions always smell of Snake Oil to me.

I can't believe people are falling for it, I really can't.

It's an opportunity to make money, nothing more nothing less. Football is a huge industry and someone had the nous to produce enough data to make your eyes water, present it as something that might help - or might not.

In this example the data is for the first 10 matches with their predicted outcomes for the season. As each result comes in they adjust the data and come to a different conclusion. They do this as the matches go by and with a week of the season left they are jolly well correct! Some of it might be correct now perchance, as I would have a decent stab at predicting who might go up and who might get relegated. Still, it has absolutely nothing to do with data analysis other than stating the obvious plusses and minuses of each team (after the event of course).

Everything is retrospective and their forecasts of what is to come is just a guess.

Statistics don't take into account, injuries, suspensions, or loss of form.
We've yet to field a settled side, especially up front were our three main strikers have yet to get a decent run together.
Statistics don't take this into account,  they assume injuries are the same for every team so cancel each other out.

“Looks like I forgot to account for the sticky pitch”

Quoted from sam gy

Sure it's a worry...but i doubt the use of data is to blame for that.

At the minute it just feels like people are clamouring to find anything and anyone for our poor form and it's just a bit daft....

Our coaches played in defence, our owner writes for the guardian, Steve Croudson shouts instructions, we're using more data..

This.
Humans have evolved to see patterns and will see them even when they aren't there.

Yes, but it doesn't mean that statistics can't be useful!

Dismissing them as useless is as daft as relying on them entirely.

Quoted from sam gy

Loads of teams throughout the EFL will be using data & tech in a similar way to us - some will have crap seasons and some will have good seasons. It's still football.

This says it all for me, at this moment in time. Swings and roundabouts.

If every team uses data, one team would still finish top and another would still finish bottom. So, in a world where everyone uses data, where's the advantage? (I'm playing devil's advocate here, bear with me).

In a similar vein, if all 20 PL clubs got unlimited spend, where's the advantage?

The advantage ultimately comes down to — and always will come down to — human things, like confidence, intelligence, and the ability to organise and motivate others. That's where the biggest difference can be made, and (in my opinion) that demands the biggest investment. They can be helped or informed by data, but to what degree?

Well, that depends on the intelligence of the person interpreting it!

When it comes to data, it's approaching an even playing field if every team embraces it. It was only uneven for a short time, when the innovative clubs (Brentford) dared to embrace it first.

Data is interesting, but how useful is it really if, say, Cheltenham Town are using it? We're using it and we're worse off this year than last.

Generally I'm all for data and I'm happy to embrace change, but I do think there's way too much value put upon it because of the isolated cases of a handful of clubs that were clever enough to use it before anyone else did. The game is already moving on, so it's time to embrace data while also looking at what's next.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Agreed. It seems like it should improve your chances but doesn’t take human fallibility into account. That’s probably why I’m excrement at FIFA or whatever it’s called now.

Isn't FIFA the game where you sit in a make-believe hotel room, and you open the door after a special knock and find a brown paper bag stuffed with money?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Well it's a bloody hindrance then. If data has supported/assisted getting players in who can't string two passes together, can't take a set piece or try something new from a throw in.

Of course they are being led by it; they've put great store by it and they said it isn't cheap so will be using it as much as possible or its money down the drain.

In the end common sense will overrule any data as the idea that fans will put up with the dross being served is for the birds.

You are arguing a lost cause,most of the younger generation cannot decided what they going to eat without consulting an algorithm.The day of cogent analysis has long since gone I am afraid,expect in another years the human brain becoming totally atrophied.

I don't think stats are used for who Hurst's signed this summer in the main - I mean Pyke has not played in his current position for 2 years and Eisa played what 9 games in 2 years at Bradford or something so how much data can there actually be other than he was either made of glass for 2 years or just unlucky with injuries which his good start suggests may be the case.  

Quoted from Balthazar Bullitt

Data seems to have wronged you in a way you can't forget  
Did you get dumped by an excel spreadsheet as a teenager or something?

Excel spreadsheet? What on earth is that?

Have a gold star anyway. Regards, the Data Guy.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

It's an opportunity to make money, nothing more nothing less. Football is a huge industry and someone had the nous to produce enough data to make your eyes water, present it as something that might help - or might not.

In this example the data is for the first 10 matches with their predicted outcomes for the season. As each result comes in they adjust the data and come to a different conclusion. They do this as the matches go by and with a week of the season left they are jolly well correct! Some of it might be correct now perchance, as I would have a decent stab at predicting who might go up and who might get relegated. Still, it has absolutely nothing to do with data analysis other than stating the obvious plusses and minuses of each team (after the event of course).

Everything is retrospective and their forecasts of what is to come is just a guess.

You seem to think that statistics should be telling you absolutes and if they don't they shouldn't be bothered with. Well nothing in football can predict absolutes but statistics can help you make a more informed decisions. They aren't a magic button to success but they are used by every professional football club which should tell you something.

For example take horse racing. Bookies use statistics to decide on the race favourite (past form, going, jockey etc). Now the horse that the stats say is most likely to win the race won't always win the race but you don't find very many poor bookies, do you?

Quoted from MarinerMal

You seem to think that statistics should be telling you absolutes and if they don't they shouldn't be bothered with. Well nothing in football can predict absolutes but statistics can help you make a more informed decisions. They aren't a magic button to success but they are used by every professional football club which should tell you something.

For example take horse racing. Bookies use statistics to decide on the race favourite (past form, going, jockey etc). Now the horse that the stats say is most likely to win the race won't always win the race but you don't find very many poor bookies, do you?

You never see any rich gamblers either who pour over form and data endlessly and still make the wrong choice.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You never see any rich gamblers either who pour over form and data endlessly and still make the wrong choice.

That's quite possibly because the odds are stacked in the favour of the bookies who offer them. That's the same bookies who, incidentally, do rely heavily on data and complex algorithms to keep the odds stacked precisely that way, and as the saying goes, you never meet a poor bookie.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You never see any rich gamblers either who pour over form and data endlessly and still make the wrong choice.

Exactly!!!

So who do you think uses statistics more?

Quoted from Poojah

That's quite possibly because the odds are stacked in the favour of the bookies who offer them. That's the same bookies who, incidentally, do rely heavily on data on complex odds to keep the odds stacked precisely that way, and as the saying goes, you never meet a poor bookie.

Fair point but the issue isn't about betting it is about football data.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Fair point but the issue isn't about betting it is about football data.

At the crux of it it's about probability, and hedging your bets in such a way that the ultimate outcome is several magnitudes more likely to work out in your favour than not. Trying to apply the same approach to the more complex and less binary matter of football recruitment is of course somewhat trickier, but there are clubs at the top-level who do this very well.

Perhaps the best two examples are Brighton and Brentford, owned by Tony Bloom and Matthew Benham respectively. Where did they make their fortunes? You betcha, the gambling industry (they even worked together for a time).

I think we need to draw a distinction between the notion that effective use of data in football is possible, and the notion that doing so is easy. Were that the case, then everyone would be doing it and its effect would be nullified. It's clearly not easy or straightforward, but its evidently possible.

Quoted from Poojah

At the crux of it it's about probability, and hedging your bets in such a way that the ultimate outcome is several magnitudes more likely to work out in your favour than not. Trying to apply the same approach to the more complex and less binary matter of football recruitment is of course somewhat trickier, but there are clubs at the top-level who do this very well.

Perhaps the best two examples are Brighton and Brentford, owned by Tony Bloom and Matthew Benham respectively. Where did they make their fortunes? You betcha, the gambling industry (they even worked together for a time).

I think we need to draw a distinction between the notion that effective use of data in football is possible, and the notion that doing so is easy. Were that the case, then everyone would be doing it and its effect would be nullified. It's clearly not easy or straightforward, but its evidently possible.

What about the millions poured into Brentford and Brighton? Did they turn to data when they were wallowing in the lower leagues or did investment start their renaissance? Things seem so much easier when you are on the up.

If we were using data effectively we wouldn't have Hurst as the manager would we, given his disappointing stats in the EFL?

It's a minefield sure enough, even if the data has context, whether it is being interpreted correctly and whether the people at the coal face are coming to the right conclusion, commonly called an educated guess.

If we take 21st group at their word we will be fine, with 56 to 58 points and won't be relegated. The only flies in the ointment is the fans reaction to the dire football on offer. Or we could go on a roll and get promoted. Or tank and get relegated. Or we could suffer more injuries.  Or our injured players could make quicker recoveries. Or we could widen the pitch, shorten the pitch or get rid of its stickiness. In short, it is too complex, too intricate with too many moving parts for retrospective data to be any use. All the data is obviously retrospective which is mildly interesting in itself, but as an aid as to what is to come, useless.

A good recent example is our play off success. All the data up to February would tell you we would finish mid table. The stats would tell you to change the manager.

Quoted from Poojah

That's quite possibly because the odds are stacked in the favour of the bookies who offer them. That's the same bookies who, incidentally, do rely heavily on data and complex algorithms to keep the odds stacked precisely that way, and as the saying goes, you never meet a poor bookie.

You do, my dad!!..God rest his soul..
Took the bookies shop on, corner of boulevard and corpo Road in '86, went bust in '88!!...

I wonder what the Data and Stats will tell us if we lose to Stockport this Saturday (not that we will lose)  and Forest Green R win at Mansfield (not that they will win)?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You never see any rich gamblers either who pour over form and data endlessly and still make the wrong choice.

Actually there are some rich gamblers but they have to be in the minority or the gambling industry wouldn’t exist. Bookies set the odds. Good enough to get people interested but hedged enough to ensure they get their cut over all of the games they offer.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

A good recent example is our play off success. All the data up to February would tell you we would finish mid table. The stats would tell you to change the manager.

I would argue the stats would have told us we would make the playoffs, not finish mid-table, and stick with the manager. Anything can happen from that point…and it did.

That was a tricky run that included Notts Co (x2), Halifax (x2), Dag & Red, Chesterfield, Solihull, Bromley, Wrexham etc. There were easier fixtures to come so the stats and predictors would have shown we were likely to finish in the top 7.

Our stats were still decent, even during that poor run. We just had no luck at all and conceded late goals, losing by the odd goal here and there.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

What about the millions poured into Brentford and Brighton? Did they turn to data when they were wallowing in the lower leagues or did investment start their renaissance? Things seem so much easier when you are on the up.

If we were using data effectively we wouldn't have Hurst as the manager would we, given his disappointing stats in the EFL?

It's a minefield sure enough, even if the data has context, whether it is being interpreted correctly and whether the people at the coal face are coming to the right conclusion, commonly called an educated guess.

They've got considerably more millions because they pick out relative unknowns like Caceido and Macallister and sell them for a combined £150 million. The more educated you are the less of a guess it is and information/data is part of that education. They won't have signed either without looking at them extensively but they might never have looked at either without the data. If data is pointless then let's not look at appearances, goals scored, age or height.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I would argue the stats would have told us we would make the playoffs, not finish mid-table, and stick with the manager. Anything can happen from that point…and it did.

That was a tricky run that included Notts Co (x2), Halifax (x2), Dag & Red, Chesterfield, Solihull, Bromley, Wrexham etc. There were easier fixtures to come so the stats and predictors would have shown we were likely to finish in the top 7.

Our stats were still decent, even during that poor run. We just had no luck at all and conceded late goals, losing by the odd goal here and there.

Eh? We go 13 games without a win and the stats told us at the time we would make the playoffs?

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I would argue the stats would have told us we would make the playoffs, not finish mid-table, and stick with the manager. Anything can happen from that point…and it did.

That was a tricky run that included Notts Co (x2), Halifax (x2), Dag & Red, Chesterfield, Solihull, Bromley, Wrexham etc. There were easier fixtures to come so the stats and predictors would have shown we were likely to finish in the top 7.

Our stats were still decent, even during that poor run. We just had no luck at all and conceded late goals, losing by the odd goal here and there.

Stockwood has specifically said the data at the time showed our performances during the losing spell were little different to those that had been winning matches before. In other words the data behind the obvious (results) gave weight to the notion of sticking with the manager and it would turn. They did and it did.

Of course the performance data right now could well show that we are worse compared to last season say, despite extra investment. In that case the answer to the managerial question might be different now.

Quoted from GrimPol

I wonder what the Data and Stats will tell us if we lose to Stockport this Saturday (not that we will lose)  and Forest Green R win at Mansfield (not that they will win)?

Well this is the point isn't it?

The 21st group can't lose can they? They give their findings based on the current data, and then they update it as real time results come in and then give us new predictions based on that. Wow! What insight.

Remember  the old saying that when the US sneezes, the UK catches cold. So much of this stats driven info came from the US where American football and baseball are obsessed with numbers. To a degree stats make it easier for both the clubs and the media. You don’t have to think because ‘look’ it’s all there in the stats.

Do they help? Possibly in given circumstances. But managers and fans know when their team is playing poorly, and you cannot measure confidence or lack of form by stats.

Somebody really has a dislike for statistics.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Eh? We go 13 games without a win and the stats told us at the time we would make the playoffs?

Exactly.

Based on the results we would have sacked him.

Based on the stats we would have kept him.

Based on the results, stats and eye test combined, it was best to stick with him. It worked, however fortuitously people think that was achieved.

Stats and data aren’t perfect but haven’t you just contradicted your own argument?

You speak like you’re the only person on this planet who might’ve identified that there may be limitations in using statistical analysis in certain situations.

This may shock you, but this may have occurred to some other people too.

Quoted from 123614

Somebody really has a dislike for statistics.

There's no flies on you!

Thanks for noticing anyway.

I would like to see the stats that prove the stats are accurate .....

Quoted from Rodley Mariner

They've got considerably more millions because they pick out relative unknowns like Caceido and Macallister and sell them for a combined £150 million. The more educated you are the less of a guess it is and information/data is part of that education. They won't have signed either without looking at them extensively but they might never have looked at either without the data. If data is pointless then let's not look at appearances, goals scored, age or height.

There is nothing in their back story to suggest data analysis played any part of their meteoric rise. The new stadium costing a Kings ransom, and nearly half a billion pounds of investment did the trick.

Since getting to the PL they have pinched players from relatively unknown leagues around the world and with top class managers and coaches to turn them into better players and make a profit on them.

That is a world or three away from us.

We've signed Conteh with this is mind but with the way we play, the role he is being asked to do and the lack of any visible coaching success to improve him we are more likely to turn him into Michael Leary than make a profit.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

There is nothing in their back story to suggest data analysis played any part of their meteoric rise. The new stadium costing a Kings ransom, and nearly half a billion pounds of investment did the trick.

Since getting to the PL they have pinched players from relatively unknown leagues around the world and with top class managers and coaches to turn them into better players and make a profit on them.

That is a world or three away from us.

We've signed Conteh with this is mind but with the way we play, the role he is being asked to do and the lack of any visible coaching success to improve him we are more likely to turn him into Michael Leary than make a profit.

You can carry on believing that, or you can take 5 minutes to read this article and educate yourself.

https://www.wearebrighton.com/.....to-brighton-success/

Quoted from ginnywings

You can carry on believing that, or you can take 5 minutes to read this article and educate yourself.

https://www.wearebrighton.com/.....to-brighton-success/

Yep. Interesting read. The major positive is that we’ve probably got our new manager already identified.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Yep. Interesting read. The major positive is that we’ve probably got our new manager already identified.

I'd be surprised if we hadn't got a list of managerial targets somewhere.

If stats/data/21st group really really works, someone at GTFC has their screen upside down.

Quoted from ginnywings

You can carry on believing that, or you can take 5 minutes to read this article and educate yourself.

https://www.wearebrighton.com/.....to-brighton-success/

I did educate myself and what I read was incredible investment into the club came well before they started to pick up unknown players. I was equating it to where we are now.

Quoted from ginnywings

You can carry on believing that, or you can take 5 minutes to read this article and educate yourself.

https://www.wearebrighton.com/.....to-brighton-success/

All "secrets to success" are always written after the event. What was Man U's "Secret to success" and why can't it be replicated?  
Desperate people will get conned in the most ludicrous way. Salespeople play on fears and tell you what you want to hear. It works in Double Glazing and Win-all games Algorithm Software.  
Nothing wrong in collecting data but in the end it's Hurst/Team that instills desire and picks the team from their squad. No matter how we discuss this, the team isn't working.

Quoted from Knut Anders Fosters Voles

I would argue the stats would have told us we would make the playoffs, not finish mid-table, and stick with the manager. Anything can happen from that point…and it did.

That was a tricky run that included Notts Co (x2), Halifax (x2), Dag & Red, Chesterfield, Solihull, Bromley, Wrexham etc. There were easier fixtures to come so the stats and predictors would have shown we were likely to finish in the top 7.

Our stats were still decent, even during that poor run. We just had no luck at all and conceded late goals, losing by the odd goal here and there.

You obviously didn’t go to Wealdstone one of the worst performances I have seen

Quoted from HerveJosse

You obviously didn’t go to Wealdstone one of the worst performances I have seen

That’s not really the point being made. Wealdstone was shite, but that’s not what was being argued, the data and analysis would’ve likely indicated that we’d have finished inside the playoffs…and we did.

If you look at individual performances, taking the three playoff games, I’d argue that our worst performance actually came in the final. As with all football though, only one stat means anything…