21st Group data analysis.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I am playing devil's advocate to a degree I admit.

But even in the example of scouting players you quote, what they may or may not have done in the past will bear no resemblance whatever to how they might perform here, for better or worse.

Its a different environment, different managers, different teammates, different standards. Everything is different. In the case of Pyke a different position.

Hunt would perhaps thrive at another club; I bet his stats are terrible which would rule him out if other clubs were looking for a playmaker. Or ironically, his stats might be good compared to players who play a lot of games.

If stats played any part in recruiting those players in the summer, did it take into account how they might play in a rigid, defensive set-up, with players who can't pass the ball to them or take a set piece? The answer is no, so just like a player being recommended it is just an educated guess, which brings me to the obvious thing - what is the bloody point?

The only answer seems to be that other clubs use it and there will still be some teams promoted and some relegated.

I doubt players wouldn't have been signed on statistics alone.

I'm guessing there would have been hundreds of players available to the club. Statistics would have helped to identify players that the club felt where a good fit. Scouting knowledge etc would have been used to narrow this down further. So the club is left with a list of targets to go for.

There is no process that is fool proof when signing players and things sometimes don't work out for a player for a number of reasons. Even some of the best managers in the game have made bad signings.

Perhaps our issue atm is the number of signings made over the summer and getting them to gel. It was a tough start to the season and we seem to be finding new ways to throw matches away rather than getting outplayed. I don't think we are likely to go down and I think the table based on the 21st group data is probably not too wide of the mark.

Quoted from GrimPol

Why not go the whole Hog. Just plug this into EA Sports FC24, and all Fans (Real Fans that is) can join in Via Zoom, singing their favourite songs. Just think of the carbon footprint we save, and No Drum beating or smell of Bovril. Oh what larks we shall have. No ground maintenance, we can have a Blundel Park Superdome on the Moon, Hursty can run it all from home (just like our Civil Service)

  Oh if only life solutions were that simple.     These Magic solutions always smell of Snake Oil to me.

Agreed. It seems like it should improve your chances but doesn’t take human fallibility into account. That’s probably why I’m excrement at FIFA or whatever it’s called now.

Quoted from GrimPol

Why not go the whole Hog. Just plug this into EA Sports FC24, and all Fans (Real Fans that is) can join in Via Zoom, singing their favourite songs. Just think of the carbon footprint we save, and No Drum beating or smell of Bovril. Oh what larks we shall have. No ground maintenance, we can have a Blundel Park Superdome on the Moon, Hursty can run it all from home (just like our Civil Service)

  Oh if only life solutions were that simple.     These Magic solutions always smell of Snake Oil to me.

I can't believe people are falling for it, I really can't.

It's an opportunity to make money, nothing more nothing less. Football is a huge industry and someone had the nous to produce enough data to make your eyes water, present it as something that might help - or might not.

In this example the data is for the first 10 matches with their predicted outcomes for the season. As each result comes in they adjust the data and come to a different conclusion. They do this as the matches go by and with a week of the season left they are jolly well correct! Some of it might be correct now perchance, as I would have a decent stab at predicting who might go up and who might get relegated. Still, it has absolutely nothing to do with data analysis other than stating the obvious plusses and minuses of each team (after the event of course).

Everything is retrospective and their forecasts of what is to come is just a guess.

Statistics don't take into account, injuries, suspensions, or loss of form.
We've yet to field a settled side, especially up front were our three main strikers have yet to get a decent run together.
Statistics don't take this into account,  they assume injuries are the same for every team so cancel each other out.

“Looks like I forgot to account for the sticky pitch”

Quoted from sam gy

Sure it's a worry...but i doubt the use of data is to blame for that.

At the minute it just feels like people are clamouring to find anything and anyone for our poor form and it's just a bit daft....

Our coaches played in defence, our owner writes for the guardian, Steve Croudson shouts instructions, we're using more data..

This.
Humans have evolved to see patterns and will see them even when they aren't there.

Yes, but it doesn't mean that statistics can't be useful!

Dismissing them as useless is as daft as relying on them entirely.

Quoted from sam gy

Loads of teams throughout the EFL will be using data & tech in a similar way to us - some will have crap seasons and some will have good seasons. It's still football.

This says it all for me, at this moment in time. Swings and roundabouts.

If every team uses data, one team would still finish top and another would still finish bottom. So, in a world where everyone uses data, where's the advantage? (I'm playing devil's advocate here, bear with me).

In a similar vein, if all 20 PL clubs got unlimited spend, where's the advantage?

The advantage ultimately comes down to — and always will come down to — human things, like confidence, intelligence, and the ability to organise and motivate others. That's where the biggest difference can be made, and (in my opinion) that demands the biggest investment. They can be helped or informed by data, but to what degree?

Well, that depends on the intelligence of the person interpreting it!

When it comes to data, it's approaching an even playing field if every team embraces it. It was only uneven for a short time, when the innovative clubs (Brentford) dared to embrace it first.

Data is interesting, but how useful is it really if, say, Cheltenham Town are using it? We're using it and we're worse off this year than last.

Generally I'm all for data and I'm happy to embrace change, but I do think there's way too much value put upon it because of the isolated cases of a handful of clubs that were clever enough to use it before anyone else did. The game is already moving on, so it's time to embrace data while also looking at what's next.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Agreed. It seems like it should improve your chances but doesn’t take human fallibility into account. That’s probably why I’m excrement at FIFA or whatever it’s called now.

Isn't FIFA the game where you sit in a make-believe hotel room, and you open the door after a special knock and find a brown paper bag stuffed with money?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Well it's a bloody hindrance then. If data has supported/assisted getting players in who can't string two passes together, can't take a set piece or try something new from a throw in.

Of course they are being led by it; they've put great store by it and they said it isn't cheap so will be using it as much as possible or its money down the drain.

In the end common sense will overrule any data as the idea that fans will put up with the dross being served is for the birds.

You are arguing a lost cause,most of the younger generation cannot decided what they going to eat without consulting an algorithm.The day of cogent analysis has long since gone I am afraid,expect in another years the human brain becoming totally atrophied.