Hurst In

After much consideration I’ve changed my mind . In my mind it’s the coaches that are the problem not Hurst . Too many voices etc . Croudson giving out information during the games is one example. Either Hurst or Doig should be doing that . Are all the coaches operating at 100% and are they good enough ?  My knee jerk reaction was to sack Hurst but I genuinely don’t think he’s the problem here? I know the manager lives and dies on results but …………. there has to me more to all this ?

Quoted from It Bites

After much consideration I’ve changed my mind . In my mind it’s the coaches that are the problem not Hurst . Too many voices etc . Croudson giving out information during the games is one example. Either Hurst or Doig should be doing that . Are all the coaches operating at 100% and are they good enough ?  My knee jerk reaction was to sack Hurst but I genuinely don’t think he’s the problem here? I know the manager lives and dies on results but …………. there has to me more to all this ?

Or May be, just May be, and I know it’s rare in football to think this, but May the players just aren’t doing their job. Missing from 4 yards, not clearing the ball, keepers that can’t catch cold…may be it’s partly their fault, yet none of the buffoons clamouring for the dismissal of the manager even once called out the excrement play, play being done by players…

Quoted from aldi_01

Or May be, just May be, and I know it’s rare in football to think this, but May the players just aren’t doing their job. Missing from 4 yards, not clearing the ball, keepers that can’t catch cold…may be it’s partly their fault, yet none of the buffoons clamouring for the dismissal of the manager even once called out the excrement play, play being done by players…

Can’t sack the players . Hurst and the coaches are responsible for them . I’m still going with the coaches

Quoted from aldi_01

Or May be, just May be, and I know it’s rare in football to think this, but May the players just aren’t doing their job. Missing from 4 yards, not clearing the ball, keepers that can’t catch cold…may be it’s partly their fault, yet none of the buffoons clamouring for the dismissal of the manager even once called out the excrement play, play being done by players…

Here you go again calling people for an opinion. These fans are calling out the excrement play by the players. The questions to you are what are our tactics what do we do in training and why can't anybody take a set piece properly?
None of the above are being done right just look how Efete takes a throw in .Clifton and his game management, does a great job getting the ball gets some space then hoofs it 40 yds away from a team mate instead of a 10byd pass.Fullbacks get the ball with space to run into start off then come all the way back again.I  think the players we have are decent enough but clearly there is some sort of breakdown with what they are being asked to do versus delivery. I could have accepted a slow start if we showed signs of improvement sadly this is the opposite. Town get thumped Saturday the fans like yourself pleading patience will call everyone buffoons again and say its Stockport they're top of the league. This isn't good enough you know it I know it and Paul Hurst knows it performances like Saturday get Manager's the sack.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Here you go again calling people for an opinion. These fans are calling out the excrement play by the players. The questions to you are what are our tactics what do we do in training and why can't anybody take a set piece properly?
None of the above are being done right just look how Efete takes a throw in .Clifton and his game management, does a great job getting the ball gets some space then hoofs it 40 yds away from a team mate instead of a 10byd pass.Fullbacks get the ball with space to run into start off then come all the way back again.I  think the players we have are decent enough but clearly there is some sort of breakdown with what they are being asked to do versus delivery. I could have accepted a slow start if we showed signs of improvement sadly this is the opposite. Town get thumped Saturday the fans like yourself pleading patience will call everyone buffoons again and say its Stockport they're top of the league. This isn't good enough you know it I know it and Paul Hurst knows it performances like Saturday get Manager's the sack.

It’s bad enough not being able to see a plan and a formation from the stands but the worst part is the amount of coaching that seems to be happening in the game. What do they do in the week? On Saturday, they looked no better coached than some Lincs League teams.

Quoted from 1mickylyons

Here you go again calling people for an opinion. These fans are calling out the excrement play by the players. The questions to you are what are our tactics what do we do in training and why can't anybody take a set piece properly?
None of the above are being done right just look how Efete takes a throw in .Clifton and his game management, does a great job getting the ball gets some space then hoofs it 40 yds away from a team mate instead of a 10byd pass.Fullbacks get the ball with space to run into start off then come all the way back again.I  think the players we have are decent enough but clearly there is some sort of breakdown with what they are being asked to do versus delivery. I could have accepted a slow start if we showed signs of improvement sadly this is the opposite. Town get thumped Saturday the fans like yourself pleading patience will call everyone buffoons again and say its Stockport they're top of the league. This isn't good enough you know it I know it and Paul Hurst knows it performances like Saturday get Manager's the sack.

Not really, the nonsense I heard on Saturday wasn’t an opinion, it was just grown men shouting absolute drivel with no sense but we badge it as passion…

I’ve always been a big fan of Clifton but he’s a shadow of the player of last season. I wonder how close he came to a transfer? Maybe that’s affected him.

Whatever, I hope he sorts it out. Him not performing is a real barometer of the squad.

Quoted from aldi_01

Not really, the nonsense I heard on Saturday wasn’t an opinion, it was just grown men shouting absolute drivel with no sense but we badge it as passion…

You and I have been fans for many years.Lers be honest if we had k own exactly what we were going to get for 90 mins or 70 in my case neither of us would have left the sodding house on Saturday. I can accept Town losing games even badly it happens but come on ffs you're not telling me that was acceptable or the performance vs  Bradford in the tinpot?

Quoted from It Bites

After much consideration I’ve changed my mind . In my mind it’s the coaches that are the problem not Hurst . Too many voices etc . Croudson giving out information during the games is one example. Either Hurst or Doig should be doing that . Are all the coaches operating at 100% and are they good enough ?  My knee jerk reaction was to sack Hurst but I genuinely don’t think he’s the problem here? I know the manager lives and dies on results but …………. there has to me more to all this ?

Bizarre post.

You are saying it’s nothing to do with Hurst and it’s all his coaches that are the problem, but all his staff are performing the tasks that Hurst has assigned to them. So if you are saying there’s a problem you have inadvertently pointed the finger of blame at Hurst.

So basically our current situation is everybody on the football side’s fault apart from the Manager?

Quoted from aldi_01

Or May be, just May be, and I know it’s rare in football to think this, but May the players just aren’t doing their job. Missing from 4 yards, not clearing the ball, keepers that can’t catch cold…may be it’s partly their fault, yet none of the buffoons clamouring for the dismissal of the manager even once called out the excrement play, play being done by players…

I hadn't realised up till now that players actually recruit and employ themselves. Up to this point, I was under the illusion that the Manager/management team did.
I stand corrected.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

It’s bad enough not being able to see a plan and a formation from the stands but the worst part is the amount of coaching that seems to be happening in the game. What do they do in the week? On Saturday, they looked no better coached than some Lincs League teams.

I too would love to know what goes on at the training ground. They literally look like strangers on the pitch. You could speculate there is too much emphasis on "giving100%" in training and not enough working on the formation and how to play it. To play with one up front and 13 games later still can't get anybody near him is really poor.

Just think about the 2 wide players on Saturday.  No service to them, no service from them and neither of them doing a wingers job or a supplementary strikers job, with a midfield who can barely pass 10 yards. It really is a very poor return after the extra backroom facilities that have been provided.

Quoted from 140381

I’ve always been a big fan of Clifton but he’s a shadow of the player of last season. I wonder how close he came to a transfer? Maybe that’s affected him.

Whatever, I hope he sorts it out. Him not performing is a real barometer of the squad.

I think it might just simply be a case that, although he's nominally a central midfielder, he's now reached the age of 25 and has made 200-odd appearances, almost none of which have been in central midfield. Most of his games have been played in wider areas where he's been effective most of the time, if not as a proper out and out winger, but he doesn't really have much experience of playing centrally. When you add to this the formation that the team as a whole is struggling with, it's perhaps more understandable that he's so far off his best.

Hurst in for sure at this stage. But I'm not sure you have made a good argument for it based on activity in the technical area, and which coach does what and when. Because as others have said, Paul is responsible for assigning matchday roles and responsibilities of all of his staff.

I have often wondered though what the matchday roles and responsibilities are on the bench and in the technical area. I don't perhaps have the right to know, because I should simply trust the manager, but it is something that does often intrigue me. For instance, I have noticed that very often Steve Croudson will be in the technical area giving outfield instruction, with notes/flip pad etc. in his hands. Yet Steve is the goalkeeper coach. So I've often been quite curious about the finer details of who is responsible for what on matchdays. It interests me.

Don't please misinterpret my post on this, as I am not saying it is wrong. It's just the football person in me being intrigued by the matchday touchline activity, that's all. One of those situations I guess, when you wish you could be a fly on the wall to understand the matchday organisation a bit more.

But yes, Hurst in for me too. I rate him, I have always have, and I am extremely hopeful that this blip will pass and things will come good again under his leadership.

Quoted from GrimPol

I hadn't realised up till now that players actually recruit and employ themselves. Up to this point, I was under the illusion that the Manager/management team did.
I stand corrected.

Yeah. The original post read like a wife who’s husband has had multiple affairs blaming all the other women he’s cheated on her with whilst exonerating her husband from any blame.

I get that some people have become so institutionalised by the dross we’ve had to put up with for 17 and a half years but there is life beyond Paul Hurst.

Quoted from DaleH

Hurst in for sure at this stage. But I'm not sure you have made a good argument for it based on activity in the technical area, and which coach does what and when. Because as others have said, Paul is responsible for assigning matchday roles and responsibilities of all of his staff.

I have often wondered though what the matchday roles and responsibilities are on the bench and in the technical area. I don't perhaps have the right to know, because I should simply trust the manager, but it is something that does often intrigue me. For instance, I have noticed that very often Steve Croudson will be in the technical area giving outfield instruction, with notes/flip pad etc. in his hands. Yet Steve is the goalkeeper coach. So I've often been quite curious about the finer details of who is responsible for what on matchdays.

Don't please misinterpret my post on this, as I am not saying it is wrong. It's just the football person in me being intrigued by the matchday touchline activity, that's all. One of those situations I guess, when you wish you could be a fly on the wall to understand the matchday organisation a bit more.

But yes, Hurst in for me too. I rate him, I have always have, and I am extremely hopeful that this blip will pass and things will come good again under his leadership.

I actually know this…

Hurst stands there emotionless.

Doig occasionally gets up and shouts at players and/or officials.

Croudsen holds the clipboard and waves at players warming up to come back to the dig out when they’re about to come on.

Davies sits there silently thinking he could do a better job than all of them put together.

Have I missed anyone out?

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Yeah. The original post read like a wife who’s husband has had multiple affairs blaming all the other women he’s cheated on her with whilst exonerating her husband from any blame.

I get that some people have become so institutionalised by the dross we’ve had to put up with for 17 and a half years but there is life beyond Paul Hurst.

In defence of those in defence of Hurst, I think it’s fairly easy to understand why some feel motivated to take a protective stance.

If we stick with your analogy, sometimes good, healthy relationships just break down. Sometimes the spark just fizzles out, but amidst the dying embers of the failing relationship lay many happy, shared memories, a lot of shared emotions. Even when the right thing to do is to part ways, it can still feel like a gut-wrenchingly difficult thing to do. I’m sure many of us have been there.

With Hurst, we have many shared memories. Not all of them good, but surely if you think about the very best of the 17 year period you refer to, all must be credited to Hurst. And there have been some truly great ones.

In the here and now, things just don’t appear to be working. The popular opinion seems to be that it’s time for a change, and it’s probably just about, begrudgingly, my own, when all the evidence is laid out on the table.

But if anyone feels passionately otherwise, I can thoroughly understand it all the same.

Quoted from Poojah

In defence of those in defence of Hurst, I think it’s fairly easy to understand why some feel motivated to take a protective stance.

If we stick with your analogy, sometimes good, healthy relationships just break down. Sometimes the spark just fizzles out, but amidst the dying embers of the failing relationship lay many happy, shared memories, a lot of shared emotions. Even when the right thing to do is to part ways, it can still feel like a gut-wrenchingly difficult thing to do. I’m sure many of us have been there.

With Hurst, we have many shared memories. Not all of them good, but surely if you think about the very best of the 17 year period you refer to, all must be credited to Hurst.

In the here and now, things just don’t appear to be working. The popular opinion seems to be that it’s time for a change, and it’s probably just about, begrudgingly, my own, when all the evidence is laid out on the table.

But if anyone feels passionately otherwise, I can thoroughly understand it all the same.

I use another analogy…

However many happy memories you have from a pet dog there comes a time when they can barely walk anymore and you can see they are existing and they have no quality of life anymore. If you love the dog you take him down the vets and let him drift off to sleep.

Just to be clear I’m not saying we should euthanise Paul Hurst though.

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I actually know this…

Hurst stands there emotionless.

Doig occasionally gets up and shouts at players and/or officials.

Croudsen holds the clipboard and waves at players warming up to come back to the dig out when they’re about to come on.

Davies sits there silently thinking he could do a better job than all of them put together.

Have I missed anyone out?

Greg- Who appears to be going grey poor lad, he's only my age

I do understand the 90-odd percent of posters calling for change in the aftermath of Saturday – the performance was shockingly poor. It was the worst I’ve seen a Town team play since we were last relegated out of this league. However, I’m also still “Hurst In” at the moment. Just. To my eyes, Saturday was the first time we went from being underwhelming/not executing very well to being genuinely, alarmingly, bad. As if the players had lost confidence in the system and the general way we’re trying to play.

However, I would much, much rather Hurst be given a chance to turn things around. Even just a few games. Perhaps that’s my age – I’m 31, too young to have appreciated Buckley the first couple of times, so Hurst is (by quite some distance) the most successful Town manager of my lifetime (probably makes Slade the second-best – imagine that).

The ethos of firing so quickly has come from the Premier League since it became mega-rich. Clubs up there are playing for hundreds of millions of pounds, so the gamble is always worth it. Plus they can always afford to pay off the outgoing staff, and you feel little sympathy for, for example, a Frank de Boer-type who lasts four games of the season before being ousted, because you know he’ll be walking away an even more affluent millionaire.

That’s not the case at our level, where people are trying to build careers and pay-offs can act as a millstone around the neck of club finances. Poojah’s signature “A smooth sea never made a skilful mariner” is particularly apt right now – we’re in choppy waters but surely Hurst has enough credit in the bank to have earned a few games.

He has stated himself – they’ve tweaked the style this year. It hasn’t worked. I’d like to see him scrap the possession-based stuff. Just throw it in the bin. Go back to what he knows best: solid, no-frills football. Pick up some points. Steady the ship.

**The one caveat to all this is that the owners are the only ones who actually know the inner workings of the club. If something has genuinely happened or changed or there has been some sort of player revolt or something equally disastrous, then obviously they should, and will, act. But I’d like to think our owners are the type of people who give people a chance to rectify mistakes, and only resort to firing as a last option.

Croudson is a nice enough kid but should warm up the keepers and that’s it nothing more

Quoted from GollyGTFC

I actually know this…

Hurst stands there emotionless.

Doig occasionally gets up and shouts at players and/or officials.

Croudsen holds the clipboard and waves at players warming up to come back to the dig out when they’re about to come on.

Davies sits there silently thinking he could do a better job than all of them put together.

Have I missed anyone out?

Shaun Pearson

It's clearly Croudson's role to plan for and organise, assign roles etc for set plays. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Think people are looking too hard for problems if we're criticising the management team for that. There's plenty of issues as it is without picking problems for the sake of it.


Also just to note. Shaun Pearson's role is in recruitment(scouting), not coaching with the first team.

Quoted from aldi_01

Not really, the nonsense I heard on Saturday wasn’t an opinion, it was just grown men shouting absolute drivel with no sense but we badge it as passion…

Like when Holahan came over to applaud the fans and got booed. You know the guy who came on late as a sub and looked like he actually gave a excrement. In his place id have thought intercourse you i've just ran my bottom off albeit for the short period the management let me play and ive still bothered to come over and thank you for coming

Maybe Croudson has the loudest voice.

It's Tuesday, and some are still trying to desperately figure out if they have the answer. Can they have put their finger on the conundrum of our poor performances, and somehow it hasn't occurred to a team of ex professional footballers, coaches, analysts and the manager. Have a day off people.

We have no style of play, we have no set pattern, we only have one up front, the manager has lost the dressing room, the coaches are all defenders, the board are spineless, and on and on it goes.

I see a team playing with no confidence at the moment, having failed to win or draw several games they should have and it's down to people that we employ to sort it out; namely the manager, the coaches and the players.

Let the manager manage, let the coaches coach, let the players play, and if it doesn't sufficiently improve, then the board have a decision to make at some point.

Stop beating yourselves up trying desperately to explain the inexplicable, because there is nothing you can think of that wouldn't have already crossed the minds of those whose job it is to steer the ship, and they stand or fall by those decisions. It's not our job to try and figure it out.

At a guess Croudson didn't pick that job himself, Hurst I assume gave him it.

That really doesn't matter, is the players can't pass the ball 10 yards, follow up in attack, stay alert when defending. So that isn't the manager making mistakes.

Maybe nobody can understand what Hurst is trying to do, because I have no clue either. Quite often our best players are on the bench, now, we don't know if they are fully fit or not, but some team selections are baffing. As for one up top, no no no.

The solution, no clue, but at least try and win from the outset, that would be a start.

Quoted from ginnywings

Maybe Croudson has the loudest voice.

It's Tuesday, and some are still trying to desperately figure out if they have the answer. Can they have put their finger on the conundrum of our poor performances, and somehow it hasn't occurred to a team of ex professional footballers, coaches, analysts and the manager. Have a day off people.

We have no style of play, we have no set pattern, we only have one up front, the manager has lost the dressing room, the coaches are all defenders, the board are spineless, and on and on it goes.

I see a team playing with no confidence at the moment, having failed to win or draw several games they should have and it's down to people that we employ to sort it out; namely the manager, the coaches and the players.

Let the manager manage, let the coaches coach, let the players play, and if it doesn't sufficiently improve, then the board have a decision to make at some point.

Stop beating yourselves up trying desperately to explain the inexplicable, because there is nothing you can think of that wouldn't have already crossed the minds of those whose job it is to steer the ship, and they stand or fall by those decisions. It's not our job to try and figure it out.

Well, that's a turnaround. A few posts back you didn't want to admit there was a problem. Now you admit there is a problem, but let's not discuss it.
Can you inform us at what point you would radio in and Inform Houston that you indeed Have a Problem?

Quoted from ginnywings

Maybe Croudson has the loudest voice.

It's Tuesday, and some are still trying to desperately figure out if they have the answer. Can they have put their finger on the conundrum of our poor performances, and somehow it hasn't occurred to a team of ex professional footballers, coaches, analysts and the manager. Have a day off people.

We have no style of play, we have no set pattern, we only have one up front, the manager has lost the dressing room, the coaches are all defenders, the board are spineless, and on and on it goes.

I see a team playing with no confidence at the moment, having failed to win or draw several games they should have and it's down to people that we employ to sort it out; namely the manager, the coaches and the players.

Let the manager manage, let the coaches coach, let the players play, and if it doesn't sufficiently improve, then the board have a decision to make at some point.

Stop beating yourselves up trying desperately to explain the inexplicable, because there is nothing you can think of that wouldn't have already crossed the minds of those whose job it is to steer the ship, and they stand or fall by those decisions. It's not our job to try and figure it out.

Yep. It’s our ‘job’ to turn up and get bored shitless. Trouble is that it’s been the same for long enough.

Having said that, maybe the reason people are getting so invested in this is that they care about the direction the club appears to be going. It’s all too familiar. We’ve been in this situation too many times before and it’s no good saying we’re better run or we had a great Cup run or we’ve got good data or new bogs in the Main Stand. On Saturday, Stockport won’t give a toss what we’ve got.

Quoted from Tommy

It's clearly Croudson's role to plan for and organise, assign roles etc for set plays. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Think people are looking too hard for problems if we're criticising the management team for that. There's plenty of issues as it is without picking problems for the sake of it.


Also just to note. Shaun Pearson's role is in recruitment(scouting), not coaching with the first team.

But my point on all of this is why the hell do we need someone NOT on the pitch to plan, organise and yell instructions?
Call me old fashioned but I would have thought the GK, defenders and captain could do that; are they incapable of basic organisation?
They are professionals for God's sake!

As Hurst is often happy to point out "we can't do everything for them"

For me it sums up how complicated the current management has made things - PH has lost his way IMO... and I am pretty much a PH fan

Back to basics please - simpler formation; two up top; best footballers on pitch who can consistently pass the ball to each other and not just being able to graft!

Quoted from Hagrid

Greg- Who appears to be going grey poor lad, he's only my age

It’s obviously a stressful job overseeing that many soft tissue injuries each season.

It's shame Giles Coke isn't at club any more
Then we could have...

You put your good Hurst In
You put your bad Hurst Out
You do the Giles Cokey and you try to turn things round...

I'll get my coat...

Quoted from GrimPol

Well, that's a turnaround. A few posts back you didn't want to admit there was a problem. Now you admit there is a problem, but let's not discuss it.
Can you inform us at what point you would radio in and Inform Houston that you indeed Have a Problem?

I think in Ginnys case it would be
A  Blundell Park has been destroyed by a sunsami
B  We have just been relegated to the Northern Counties East Division 2
C The Fishy restricts poster who say the same thing constantly to 1000 words a day

Or perhaps it might require at least 2 out of 3

Having read the above posts we should remember that JS did say that Hurst is responsible for ALL football matters at the club and has sole responsibility for this. He has recruited the backroom staff, he decides what responsibilities the backroom staff have on match days.

He decides which new players he wants and those he doesn't want anymore. He decides which positions on the pitch need bolstering. He decides who plays, who will be the subs and those who can sit in the stand. He decides the tactics for each game ( same as last week or something different ) and, I hope, puts them into place at the training ground.

At the end of each and every game one man is responsible for Town's performance and that is Paul Hurst. For whatever reason, Gillingham apart, we have failed miserably to perform on the pitch, especially at home this season. Lessons should have been learnt but have not.

Some say give him more time but he has had 13 league games, fancy cup games, preseason and a 'bonding' session in Spain. We haven't gelled in all this time so will another few weeks make a difference? What has happened to the team spirit we have been used to seeing, the comeback kids? It's all gone missing

What is the most concerning for me is that we dropping like a stone, at the moment, and I don't want us in a relegation battle. I think Paul has been an exceptional manager for the club, but that is in the passed. Times change, football changes and we have to move on. As much as I like him it's the club you have to think about and, sorry, he has to go.

Quoted from DB

Having read the above posts we should remember that JS did say that Hurst is responsible for ALL football matters at the club and has sole responsibility for this. He has recruited the backroom staff, he decides what responsibilities the backroom staff have on match days.

He decides which new players he wants and those he doesn't want anymore. He decides which positions on the pitch need bolstering. He decides who plays, who will be the subs and those who can sit in the stand. He decides the tactics for each game ( same as last week or something different ) and, I hope, puts them into place at the training ground.

At the end of each and every game one man is responsible for Town's performance and that is Paul Hurst. For whatever reason, Gillingham apart, we have failed miserably to perform on the pitch, especially at home this season. Lessons should have been learnt but have not.

Some say give him more time but he has had 13 league games, fancy cup games, preseason and a 'bonding' session in Spain. We haven't gelled in all this time so will another few weeks make a difference? What has happened to the team spirit we have been used to seeing, the comeback kids? It's all gone missing

What is the most concerning for me is that we dropping like a stone, at the moment, and I don't want us in a relegation battle. I think Paul has been an exceptional manager for the club, but that is in the passed. Times change, football changes and we have to move on. As much as I like him it's the club you have to think about and, sorry, he has to go.

Same as me. Excellent post.

Quoted from ginnywings

Maybe Croudson has the loudest voice.

It's Tuesday, and some are still trying to desperately figure out if they have the answer. Can they have put their finger on the conundrum of our poor performances, and somehow it hasn't occurred to a team of ex professional footballers, coaches, analysts and the manager. Have a day off people.

We have no style of play, we have no set pattern, we only have one up front, the manager has lost the dressing room, the coaches are all defenders, the board are spineless, and on and on it goes.

I see a team playing with no confidence at the moment, having failed to win or draw several games they should have and it's down to people that we employ to sort it out; namely the manager, the coaches and the players.

Let the manager manage, let the coaches coach, let the players play, and if it doesn't sufficiently improve, then the board have a decision to make at some point.

Stop beating yourselves up trying desperately to explain the inexplicable, because there is nothing you can think of that wouldn't have already crossed the minds of those whose job it is to steer the ship, and they stand or fall by those decisions. It's not our job to try and figure it out.

Thank Christ for a sense of perspective, reasoned argument and logic.
The amount of repetitive, cry arsing and pant wetting on here from fully grown man babies is insufferable.

Of course I get people are passionate about whatever camp they’re in but we’ve got several threads all around the same or similar things with the same people expressing the same views on each, like they’re offering a new perspective and that people haven’t read their previous posts.

Anyone who thinks Hurst should stay are accused of being a ‘Happy Clapper’ who is satisfied with mediocrity despite stating otherwise. It’s like people ignore what is actually written in order to replay the scripted argument they’re having in their own heads.

Of course it goes the other way too, there are people expressing genuine concerns about our plight, no doubt being scarred by our past, that are labelled trigger happy hatchet men who lack respect and have short term memories.

It all just becomes attritional with each side just reiterating their points but more vociferously in something akin to two disagreeing drunks at pub kick out time.

I get its serious and people have differing views on what’s best but where has the sense of perspective and (gallows) humour gone?

I’d give Paul Hurst more time for a simple reason. Out of all of the managers we’ve had during my time watching GTFC, he’s one of a very small number that have actually managed to bring us success in terms of promotion and he’s done it twice.
I don’t believe that he’s out of date in terms of football knowledge and the skills he possesses for football management have not disappeared so I don’t think a little more time is a lot to ask in order  to turn it round.

UTM

Quoted from DB

Having read the above posts we should remember that JS did say that Hurst is responsible for ALL football matters at the club and has sole responsibility for this. He has recruited the backroom staff, he decides what responsibilities the backroom staff have on match days.

He decides which new players he wants and those he doesn't want anymore. He decides which positions on the pitch need bolstering. He decides who plays, who will be the subs and those who can sit in the stand. He decides the tactics for each game ( same as last week or something different ) and, I hope, puts them into place at the training ground.

At the end of each and every game one man is responsible for Town's performance and that is Paul Hurst. For whatever reason, Gillingham apart, we have failed miserably to perform on the pitch, especially at home this season. Lessons should have been learnt but have not.

Some say give him more time but he has had 13 league games, fancy cup games, preseason and a 'bonding' session in Spain. We haven't gelled in all this time so will another few weeks make a difference? What has happened to the team spirit we have been used to seeing, the comeback kids? It's all gone missing

What is the most concerning for me is that we dropping like a stone, at the moment, and I don't want us in a relegation battle. I think Paul has been an exceptional manager for the club, but that is in the passed. Times change, football changes and we have to move on. As much as I like him it's the club you have to think about and, sorry, he has to go.

Disagree, far too long left of the season and therefore many more points to play for.  I remember  a few seasons back, (memory is bad) we had a really bad run, but eventually came out of it and did ok.  I still have faith in PH.

1878 will be well-versed in organisational succession planning, but certainly not expecting the need to implement on this timescale.

There will have been a clear the air meeting between staff and players and JS and PH will have spoken. Behind the scenes squad changes will be worked on. I have more faith in 1878’s judgement than probably any GTFC Board in my whole life as a fan. FFS my second experience of a new manager was near ridiculous appointment of Ron Ashman from Scunny (the first was rather better Lawrie Mac for Bobby Kennedy). We have only ever been successful with 2 consecutive managers - ie promotion with both, with John Newman and George Kerr, although also Booth did well after Kerr. After that the appointments after a successful manager have ranged from absolute disaster, starting with Ly*ns to the mediocre - Laws and Lawrence.

People are saying that players cannot make simple 10 yard passes, miss hitting the goal from inside the 6 yard box, so is this the level of player in division 4, so therefore are we trying to play to intricately (Man City style) for the players we have. I’ve said it before that although Wrexham seem to be a kick and run style have they realised that’s what gets you out of this division.

Quoted from Gaffer58

People are saying that players cannot make simple 10 yard passes, miss hitting the goal from inside the 6 yard box, so is this the level of player in division 4, so therefore are we trying to play to intricately (Man City style) for the players we have. I’ve said it before that although Wrexham seem to be a kick and run style have they realised that’s what gets you out of this division.

The current top 3 are very far from “kick and run”. I expect the current top to be there at the end of the season. They do also have bigger budgets than us. I think PH wanted us to be like Orient - very good shape, strong midfield and defence, and very effective at getting different players forward to share the goals around. We only have 80% of the squad needed to do that though.

Quoted from aldi_01

Or May be, just May be, and I know it’s rare in football to think this, but May the players just aren’t doing their job. Missing from 4 yards, not clearing the ball, keepers that can’t catch cold…may be it’s partly their fault, yet none of the buffoons clamouring for the dismissal of the manager even once called out the excrement play, play being done by players…

The manager is responsible for the recruitment,motivation, tactics, team selection and training!

Quoted from GollyGTFC

Bizarre post.

You are saying it’s nothing to do with Hurst and it’s all his coaches that are the problem, but all his staff are performing the tasks that Hurst has assigned to them. So if you are saying there’s a problem you have inadvertently pointed the finger of blame at Hurst.

So basically our current situation is everybody on the football side’s fault apart from the Manager?

Look....he doesn't believe anything really. He just wants to get lots of reaction and that is exactly what is happening (including this post!). Everyone involved with the club is keeping quiet at the moment and rightly so. Let him (and his team and the players) get on with their respective jobs. Let the Board make decisions as and when they see fit. Ignore the attention seekers on here and lets see what happens!

I want Paul to be successful (again) and I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt but I see some serious issues that he has to sort out, and it feels like a lot:

1. We have gone from being difficult to beat to being too easy to beat
2. We have gone from 100% battlers to not putting up much of a fight (maybe 1+ 2 are the same)
3. Defensively we look shambolic at times, previously we have looked like a stone wall - and this is not just in defence, it is in midfield as well.
4. The formation doesn't appear to work, maybe because we never have the same team twice
5. Rose is isolated and nobody gets on to his flick ons, and he makes a lot
6. We lack penetration when we get the ball on the wings (I don't think it's a lack of pace, it's a lack of penetration)
7. A couple of our players look like shadows of last season - Clifton and Waterfall most noticably
8. Possibly this is the most important - you could see last season and the year in the NL that we were a proper team, the players were mates and would die for each other. I do not see that this year at all.

Maybe, just maybe, there is an internal issue with the coaching team. I did see at Swindon that 3 coaches were off the bench shouting at the same time and I did wonder if the message was getting lost - but I'm not convinced this is the biggest issue, unless it's the root cause of some of the issues above.

There may be other issues but I think these are the biggies and the ones Paul has to get to grips with.

UTM

Quoted from Gaffer58

People are saying that players cannot make simple 10 yard passes, miss hitting the goal from inside the 6 yard box, so is this the level of player in division 4, so therefore are we trying to play to intricately (Man City style) for the players we have. I’ve said it before that although Wrexham seem to be a kick and run style have they realised that’s what gets you out of this division.

I've said it here before: sign the players to play your system or play a system for the players you've got (and that they can play).

Quoted from BobbyCummingsTackle

I've said it here before: sign the players to play your system or play a system for the players you've got (and that they can play).

That’s a bit too sensible.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

That’s a bit too sensible.

It was staring us all in the face .

Quoted from MuddyWaters

That’s a bit too sensible.

In my heart of hearts I believe PH is sensible but I do find the formation thing a bit baffling. And I believe that he can see that, so not changing it makes it even more so.

With 10 minutes to go at Swindon I wanted to go down to the bench and say to him 'look, look at the difference! We look so much better'. But Wiltshire Constabulary got to me first and now there's a restraining order....

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

I too would love to know what goes on at the training ground. They literally look like strangers on the pitch. You could speculate there is too much emphasis on "giving100%" in training and not enough working on the formation and how to play it. To play with one up front and 13 games later still can't get anybody near him is really poor.

Just think about the 2 wide players on Saturday.  No service to them, no service from them and neither of them doing a wingers job or a supplementary strikers job, with a midfield who can barely pass 10 yards. It really is a very poor return after the extra backroom facilities that have been provided.

Don't know what game you were watching but we missed two absolute sitters , either of which would have influenced the game in our favour on both occasions.  You can't blame the manager for that , that rests with the players themselves.  We'll be fine with P.H. at the helm ,there's no one  better that we can afford..

Quoted from ancientmariner54

Don't know what game you were watching but we missed two absolute sitters , either of which would have influenced the game in our favour on both occasions.  You can't blame the manager for that , that rests with the players themselves.  We'll be fine with P.H. at the helm ,there's no one  better that we can afford..

Can we blame the manager for the dull, unentertaining performances that have made home games a chore?

I wish someone would change the record, same old rubbish being spouted out every day.  Forget last Saturday, it's gone, get behind the lads FFS!  UTM.

Quoted from ancientmariner54

We'll be fine with P.H. at the helm ,there's no one  better that we can afford..

Not that anyone has any real idea how much Hurst/Doig/Davies are costing, but I find that hard to believe.

Quoted from 123614

I wish someone would change the record, same old rubbish being spouted out every day. Forget last Saturday, it's gone, get behind the lads FFS!  UTM.

It's okay to say that but didn't we say something similar after Bradford, Wrexham, Crawley, Swindon, Barrow and Tranmere? Isn't it time the lads put up a show that we can be proud of for us to get behind them?

Quoted from 123614

I wish someone would change the record, same old rubbish being spouted out every day.  .

Irony at its best !!

UTM

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Can we blame the manager for the dull, unentertaining performances that have made home games a chore?

No.

Quoted from ancientmariner54

No.

Well, who do we blame, the bleeding kit man FFS!!..

He will be gone after Saturdays inevitable defeat

Quoted from sydney

He will be gone after Saturdays inevitable defeat

Seems a bit pointless to sack him after an inevitable defeat (and I don’t disagree about its apparent inevitability). You either part ways before or allow an additional game (at least).

Provided Saturday doesn’t see a complete meltdown; 6+ goals conceded, players scrapping on the pitch, manager sent off for getting his nob out, that sort of thing, he’ll be in the dugout for the Colchester game. That’s the game truly toxic potential, if you ask me. That said, Hurst does have a habit of pulling something out of the bag just before things turn properly nasty.

Quoted from Poojah

Seems a bit pointless to sack him after an inevitable defeat (and I don’t disagree about its apparent inevitability). You either part ways before or allow an additional game (at least).

Provided Saturday doesn’t see a complete meltdown; 6+ goals conceded, players scrapping on the pitch, manager sent off for getting his nob out, that sort of thing, he’ll be in the dugout for the Colchester game. That’s the game truly toxic potential, if you ask me. That said, Hurst does have a habit of pulling something out of the bag just before things turn properly nasty.

I certainly don’t think he would be sacked between a Saturday and a Tuesday game but I hope that the next three games are able to define a path forward one way or another.

Quoted from Azimuth

The manager is responsible for the recruitment,motivation, tactics, team selection and training!

Maybe so but surely he can't be held responsible for every miss placed pass, poor judgement in positioning or failure to track a runner. Players can have a great game but make one miss placed pass that leads to a goal. Most of the players we have are playing at this level because they are prone to inconsistences. Obviously the ultimate responsibility lies with the manager but some players are letting him down by not playing as well as they can. As has been noted, Clifton is nowhere near as good or consistent as he was last season. If PH rests him for a few games but he still performs well in training what then? Clifton could easily think " what's the point, I'm going my best in training yet still can't get a game". Despondency creeps in and turns a drop in form into a ' can't be ars*d" mindset. Footballers are not robots and subject to mood swings, just like we all are.

Quoted from rancido

Maybe so but surely he can't be held responsible for every miss placed pass, poor judgement in positioning or failure to track a runner. Players can have a great game but make one miss placed pass that leads to a goal. Most of the players we have are playing at this level because they are prone to inconsistences. Obviously the ultimate responsibility lies with the manager but some players are letting him down by not playing as well as they can. As has been noted, Clifton is nowhere near as good or consistent as he was last season. If PH rests him for a few games but he still performs well in training what then? Clifton could easily think " what's the point, I'm going my best in training yet still can't get a game". Despondency creeps in and turns a drop in form into a ' can't be ars*d" mindset. Footballers are not robots and subject to mood swings, just like we all are.

I think you describe the situation very well but for Clifton read Hunt.

Quoted from rancido

Maybe so but surely he can't be held responsible for every miss placed pass, poor judgement in positioning or failure to track a runner. Players can have a great game but make one miss placed pass that leads to a goal. Most of the players we have are playing at this level because they are prone to inconsistences. Obviously the ultimate responsibility lies with the manager but some players are letting him down by not playing as well as they can. As has been noted, Clifton is nowhere near as good or consistent as he was last season. If PH rests him for a few games but he still performs well in training what then? Clifton could easily think " what's the point, I'm going my best in training yet still can't get a game". Despondency creeps in and turns a drop in form into a ' can't be ars*d" mindset. Footballers are not robots and subject to mood swings, just like we all are.

But the players aren't having great games, with one misplaced pass or shot that fans are blaming the manager for. The players are having generally poor games with multiple misplaced passes etc. The performances are tending on a downward trajectory, we are worse than when the season started.

Equally, if our players are at this level for a reason (inconsistency you say) then so are all the opposition so all managers are in the same boat.

We know that some players are playing far below their ability but is that individual performances or the system they are being asked to play, or both?

I am not Hurst out, yet, but the situation you describe is not what he is being held responsible for.

Quoted from rancido

Maybe so but surely he can't be held responsible for every miss placed pass, poor judgement in positioning or failure to track a runner. Players can have a great game but make one miss placed pass that leads to a goal. Most of the players we have are playing at this level because they are prone to inconsistences. Obviously the ultimate responsibility lies with the manager but some players are letting him down by not playing as well as they can. As has been noted, Clifton is nowhere near as good or consistent as he was last season. If PH rests him for a few games but he still performs well in training what then? Clifton could easily think " what's the point, I'm going my best in training yet still can't get a game". Despondency creeps in and turns a drop in form into a ' can't be ars*d" mindset. Footballers are not robots and subject to mood swings, just like we all are.

You could say the same for just about every other team that is playing in this league but the majority are currently doing better than us.

As for the Clifton comment, if you are not playing well then you should be dropped and I am sure that Harry knows that, as you said he is not performing as well as last season but he should not automatically be in the team. It is up to him to bust a gut in training to force himself back in the team as it is for any other member of the squad. If a player is playing poorly then doesn't get an immediate recall into the team even if giving his all in training as should every other player not selected and then doesn't give a toss in training but expects by right to be back in the team they can urine off for me.