Why Hurst Should Stay

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Not true. Played full game on Tuesday and see Maher's wife's tweet yesterday.  Shocking that Maher wasn't selected, but even more shocking was the open dissent against Hurst. Something's definitely not right..[/ This wont end well

Quoted from Vance Warner

For now at least

We’ve had bad runs before and Hurst has turned things around.
There was identical talk of dressing room unrest a couple of years ago in a season that finished with one of the tightest group of battlers we’ve ever seen.

We’ve had bad luck with injuries and illness. Less than a week ago we were unable to fill the bench so it’s maybe not surprising some players didn’t look 100% yesterday. Vernam and Wilson were undoubtedly targeted as key players at the start of the season.

The majority of League Two games are turgid affairs. This seems to be more the case than ever with increased physicality meaning most games end up as a war of attrition. Not pretty but most fans have to endure the same at this level.

League Two is considerably stronger than last year. This idea that we have a mega budget is fanciful compared to lots of other teams. With all their talk of sustainability the idea that the owners would go sh1t or bust with the fa cup money I find hard to believe.

He’s been let down by some players. Yes it’s his job to get the best out of them but some of the individual errors yesterday were dreadful. Players that have served him well in the past have not been at their best.

Out last 3 league games have been W D L. Not as catastrophic as some are making out. I think people’s personal dislike of Hurst has clouded judgement on how likely he is to go at this point. I think he’s got at least 3 more games to turn it around. For the record if he’s given more time that’s because the owners feel it’s right. Sometimes it takes more balls to not sack a manager.

I know what you are saying and the Hurst supporter in me agrees

The trouble is I have rarely , if ever seen a Hurst team with individuals in it who down tools - which yesterday IMO I saw from some,  not all - something isn't right within the camp - I think we have a talented group , but as we have seen before a team with less ability but grit and determination generally does better than the former ; ideally a combination of both which looks further away than ever really .

Like some have said there is no need for abuse towards him as he has done some real good here , but even for him I think it would be better to step away now with his reputation relatively in tact in contrast to leaving us tucked up in a terminal situation .

We have all seen teams /managers and fans in this situation before , we all know by now it never tends to end well .

Quoted from Vance Warner

For now at least

We’ve had bad runs before and Hurst has turned things around.
There was identical talk of dressing room unrest a couple of years ago in a season that finished with one of the tightest group of battlers we’ve ever seen.

We’ve had bad luck with injuries and illness. Less than a week ago we were unable to fill the bench so it’s maybe not surprising some players didn’t look 100% yesterday. Vernam and Wilson were undoubtedly targeted as key players at the start of the season.

The majority of League Two games are turgid affairs. This seems to be more the case than ever with increased physicality meaning most games end up as a war of attrition. Not pretty but most fans have to endure the same at this level.

League Two is considerably stronger than last year. This idea that we have a mega budget is fanciful compared to lots of other teams. With all their talk of sustainability the idea that the owners would go sh1t or bust with the fa cup money I find hard to believe.

He’s been let down by some players. Yes it’s his job to get the best out of them but some of the individual errors yesterday were dreadful. Players that have served him well in the past have not been at their best.

Out last 3 league games have been W D L. Not as catastrophic as some are making out. I think people’s personal dislike of Hurst has clouded judgement on how likely he is to go at this point. I think he’s got at least 3 more games to turn it around. For the record if he’s given more time that’s because the owners feel it’s right. Sometimes it takes more balls to not sack a manager.

I’ve attempted a few drafts, which included some of your points, but mine was too long, even for me, so I scrapped it and had a wānk…

1. Previous poor runs

Agree with your points. Posters on here have claimed two or three times in past seasons that Hurst had ‘lost the dressing room’. Every time that was proved to be false (21/22 and that passionate draw against Halifax stands out, against a backdrop of similar comments). Body language experts have moaned about goal celebrations in previous seasons (e.g. Taylor not celebrating Hunt’s goal) - it means nothing, you should never trust a badge kisser anyway.

The caveat would be that, even in previous poor spells, it was clear to all but the most radical Hurst haters that the team were still playing for him and fully committed.

I’m not saying that isn’t the case now but I can understand the concerns (Waterfall’s cowardly second yellow yesterday, Holohan and other midfielders not tracking runners, Glennon turning his back and day dreaming against Crawley and Eastwood’s spineless goalkeeping in the same match).

2. General standard of L2

Despite the money floating around in L2 the quality of the football still isn’t great. It’s improved since our previous spells at this level but most matches are turgid. Wrexham and Notts Co have a lot of firepower, which is currently compensating for their porous defences. Mansfield were decent to watch, Barrow too but they still lost and are only 2 points above us.

Pre-season, I thought there were probably 16 sides with fans who expected promotion or play-offs at a minimum. That’s been borne out by the sackings of Hughes and Harris and teams taking points off one another. It wouldn’t surprise me if 70 pts, or even late 60s could be enough to make the play-offs. Sadly, I don’t see is getting near that and didn’t pre-season.

3. Players’ fault?

Having said you shouldn’t read much into goal celebrations (or players being annoyed at being subbed), it’s usually more helpful to analyse reactions to goals conceded. We’re getting plenty of practice at the moment.

You can understand players making mistakes - that’s forgivable. But most of the past 13 goals we’ve let in have been due to players being lazy of mind and lazy of body. The senior players should be laying into their teammates but they can’t because they most to blame for the goals.

Yes, Hurst recruited most of them, picks the team and tactics but there are a few worrying signs. The players better had still be giving 100% or they should be getting some shït in the future, even if Hurst does leave.

4. Other points

We’ve now conceded 13 goals in the last 6 league matches. I don’t think we will go down if Hurst stays but we will if we continue to defend like this as a team. Notts County and Wrexham are conceding at close to 2 goals per match but they have the firepower to get themselves out of trouble (whether that’s sustainable for them is an another matter).  

The decision to sign a raw, inexperienced back up goalkeeper is looking iffy. Eastwood should have been dropped after that Crawley match but Hurst couldn’t because Cartwright isn’t ready yet

We made signings early and had a full pre-season to work on fitness, formations, set pieces, tactics, general play, marking, penalties, squad morale etc. Based on the evidence, this time appears to have been wasted. Paul Hurst works very hard but I don’t know what the players have been doing all summer.

I’m not sure what the problem is with Glennon, whether it’s mental, physical, homesickness, exposed tactically or whether he is actually just crap. I had hoped that, with a full summer to work on him, Hurst could improve Glennon. From the outside, it looks like we left it too late in the window to try to find a replacement.

Playing Maher at RB in the Scab Trophy and then starting Waterfall yesterday appears, again from the outside, as odd. Even more so in light of Clair Maher’s now deleted tweet.

Results in the last 3 have been ok. 4 points from 3 isn’t awful. It’s certainly not great but it would keep you away from relegation. Golly’s wider sample looks grimmer but the season ppg of 1.08 would see us safe but underwhelmed / apoplectic (or somewhere in the middle)

Conclusion

I don’t like sacking managers, particularly not someone as respected within the industry as Hurst. I like him a person and as a fellow small, cautious, man in a world of lanky wànkers, I do have a bias towards him.

I think Hurst deserves more time. I hope he is given it and he can pull us up the table.

We probably need 1.7 ppg to make the playoffs. Not many Town managers have managed that sort of consistency over the past 20 years so I think any hope of the playoffs, or even keeping them in reach to give us something to play for, are probably dead, regardless of manager. It’s all about survival and a cup run now!

We really do need to start defending better though. I’m not expecting much against Stockport. I can envisage a thrashing away at Forest Green at the end of Nov before a do or die 6 pointer against Sutton.

If we’re in actual trouble by that stage, S&P really will have  a decision to make.

Actually…that’s still a bit long. Sorry. Should have that second tug instead.

The Waterfall over Maher decision seems to the one that Hurst might die on, or certainly is dying on in the eyes of many.

I get the feeling that he's gone with Waterfall for his leadership qualities. But the irony is that it was Waterfall who completely let himself and his team down with that stupid red card.

I've still not quite got my head round where I stand and how I feel. But on my run this morning I listened to Graham Wesley's UndrTheCosh. Let me be clear, I don't want him in charge and I think he's a complete helmet. But he spoke a lot about character and getting players to be with him and run through walls.  I didn't get that feeling from our side yesterday and nor have I for most of this season.

Have we lost too many dressing room leaders? I don't know.
Are the players downing tools? I don't know.
Is Doig the problem? I don't know.

What I do know is that something has to give. It's hurting me to think Hurst is the thing to give. He's got us out that flipping league twice and given me some of my best memories as Town fan. He comes across a decent bloke, genuinely. I wanted this to end with him leaving on his own terms, with our best wishes, for a bigger job that is completely insignificant to us (Aberdeen, Inter Miami, China... Any side that won't play us). If it ends like this I'll genuinely be a bit heartbroken, but I think it might need to end before it gets too painful.

Posters are saying Jason will not sack Hurst.

Well I think he would if we looked like returning to the conference but we are not there yet so Hurst job is safe for now.

That does not stop us showing our dissatisfaction on the way things are going at the moment.

We Will get behind the team because that is what we do but the sound of the players unrest is quite disturbing.

This needs sorting ( if true ) as soon as possible we need a happy squad if we want a winning team.

A lot of people on here think Hurst should go and the players are lazy sods. I think Hurst is a good manager of men and if he got over his stubbornness of not changing his game plans he could be a good manager. As for the players I don't think they are lazy, just unable to play the style Hurst wants. They also don't make mistakes on purpose and they do care if they have an off day. Waterfall got his red card because he was in fact trying too hard and Rose was upset because he wanted to stay on.. For me I would be satisfied if Hurst got the players to play a more attacking game and let their natural skills come more to the fore. Defenders therefore defend and forwards attack

The thing is, even if Hurst does turn this around and we start climbing the table, theres absolutely nothing at the minute to suggest that we have a team capable of hitting the playoffs; which we all would suggest was our target at the start of the season.

Theres argument that the 'team/squad' hasnt improved (despite the rumoured higher budget), theres little bits of evidence to suggest that the players aren't playing for the manager and rumours of dressing room revolts.
None of that is healthy for any team/manager

I genuienly hope Hurst turns it around and I hope that we hit the playoffs, but as we finish each game, were looking further from being able to do that.

The heat is going to be for Hurst these next 3/4 games and the Hurst out screams will only get louder if we dont turn the performances around quickly.

Colchester may be the game which decides his future. A win gives him time, a loss or draw gives the owners a big decision to make.

I think most here know I'm one of Hurst's biggest supporters. I thought we had just started to turn it around and I thought Saturday was a very winnable game. Afterwards, I felt pretty deflated. Got to the point where I thought maybe things did need to change, and if it did happen, I'd probably be fine with it.

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to doubt that. Something is not right behind the scenes, and some of the defending has been casual. Something you wouldn't expect with a Paul Hurst team. The level of determination in the Bradford game at times... While I'm not going to debate the point that Hurst does need to adapt a little, and become more aggressive, I'm starting to think the biggest issue is with the players (some) rather than Hurst.

If some players have maybe took their foot of the gas a little and "aren't playing for the manager", and we sack Hurst now, we are basically giving players a blank cheque to pick and choose who our manager is. If some have had enough of Hurst, and are not only not playing for him, that is one thing. With that, they are also not playing for the fans or the pay cheque (as professionals should), which I don't think is acceptable.  Don't get me wrong, frustration of being taken off by say Rose, I don't think is a problem. It shows he gives a excrement, and wants to battle. I personally would have started Maher on Saturday, but for his wife to potentially be allegedly sticking the daggers in on social media, that's embarrassing. I don't think a partner should do that and jeopardise their partners job situation without them having a view on it. I get drunk with my partners work situation, but I keep my mouth shut if she don't want me saying anything out of respect.

Obviously, there is some level of speculation here, and it could be wide of the mark. I think if this could be the case, it really needs the club to stick with Hurst. If that is happening, you either hold Hurst, or the players to account. Hurst will know who the worst offenders/ringleaders are, and may want to do something about that come January. If a group of the players do actually oust Hurst, who has had success with the club, they're going to believe they can do it with anyone. You can get into the cycle of those clubs like Chelsea/Man Utd, who are sometimes unmanageable. I mean, we had a pretty extreme situation here in the past, post Mike Newell.

If the club decides to let Hurst go, they need to keep one or multiple of the coaching staff, as they'll know what has gone on and can communicate that to the new boss.

Don't get me wrong, something needs to change, and pretty quick. Hurst needs to adapt, but if we change manager, we could be opening up a can of worms. I cannot imagine the confidence is zero after 4 points in 2 games then Bradford. Hurst has turned around a really shitty run before, so he's more than capable.

Yes he should stay......Long enough to clear his and Doigs desk`s

But not until he’s learned to spell the tricky word ‘desk’. You twerp! 😂