Hurst post match Mansfied

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0g5l5tp

Although downbeat he sounds as if some players may be out by the end of the transfer widow. I don't think he needs us to say how bad they were and says he won't set up a team like that again, so a week on Saturday will tell when we play them again. Also not forgetting this Saturday at County we see what his preferred 1st eleven are.

One main thing he did mention was that Mansfield ran faster than us, which I also thought was the case with some Wimbledon players last Saturday. All in all it was a major disappointment for the 500+ travelling fans who went to Mansfield and deserved better from the team.

Another sign of the maturing of Hurst mk II over first stint Hurst. No way would he have admitted he got that so wrong back in the heady days of 2014. Fair play to him. Let's hope he puts a rocket up the players' arses.

Something that has been pointed out several times in the other threads is that this is a new side still gelling, however look at that from the Mansfield side too. Not only are they one of the favourites for promotion, they've also had to do very little business this season. Their squad is settled and Clough has just made some fairly minor tweaks (compared to Hurst) in an attempt to go from a playoff side to an auto spot side. While it's a bit of a blow to morale to be comprehensively swept aside, it's hardly a shock that should be confining us to a season at the foot of the table like some seem to be suggesting.

Notts on Saturday who are struggling worse and have a defence that can be picked apart by all accounts. Let's get into them Town and come back with three points.

I heard it as Hurst will not be playing the players in that combination again. Not necessarily shipping anyone out.
An example for me, not a central midfield 2 of Holohan and Green together as we got tore to shreds in the centre of the park.
Think a striker in before the window closes and a close to the 11 that started against Wimbledon plz for Saturday

Mansfield have been in the playoffs several times since getting back into the league but seemingly falling short when it matters, the playoff final the day we beat Wrexham springs to mind, they just fell apart.

They’ve got a large budget but unlike previous years, Clough has knitted the squad together and I guess they feel this could be their year. It could be as well, ignoring the disproportionate spending of Wrexham and their sense of entitlement and media obsession, they’re clearly not that good. Similar with County, which makes me think there’s a few teams that will fancy their chances.

As for Hurst, as you say, it’s another sign of how he’s changed for the better, admitting it didn’t work and being honest. Can’t fault that and I take it as one or two will be going out on loan but may be they’re happy to stick it out, either way, they combination of players and system won’t be used again. Holohan and Green for example, just didn’t work and didn’t really work last year.

On a different note, the results, as usual were all over last night, random teams winning in penalties and then banker wins losing. Typical of this stage in the season and the first round of the league cup…County with another red card too.

Quoted from DB

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0g5l5tp

Although downbeat he sounds as if some players may be out by the end of the transfer widow. I don't think he needs us to say how bad they were and says he won't set up a team like that again, so a week on Saturday will tell when we play them again. Also not forgetting this Saturday at County we see what his preferred 1st eleven are.

One main thing he did mention was that Mansfield ran faster than us, which I also thought was the case with some Wimbledon players last Saturday. All in all it was a major disappointment for the 500+ travelling fans who went to Mansfield and deserved better from the team.

He never knows his best team, does he? That is what pre season is supposed to be about. All the excited comments on here and elsewhere about how good our signings were and how much pace we've added look in tatters already.

Add to that we are woefully light up front.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He never knows his best team, does he? That is what pre season is supposed to be about. All the excited comments on here and elsewhere about how good our signings were and how much pace we've added look in tatters already.

Add to that we are woefully light up front.

Bloody hell, give them a chance. We've not really seen Pyke or Wilson yet! I don't think it's a question of being woefully light (think we could do with one more) it's more a question of getting the system that fits the players at his disposal. Rose needs to be in a two for me, said that all along. Nothing against Rose, Vernam and Eisa individually. They're definitely upgrades on players we had last season in their respective positions but collectively I'm not sure they're gonna be that effective.

Quoted from Son of Cod

Bloody hell, give them a chance. We've not really seen Pyke or Wilson yet! I don't think it's a question of being woefully light (think we could do with one more) it's more a question of getting the system that fits the players at his disposal. Rose needs to be in a two for me, said that all along. Nothing against Rose, Vernam and Eisa individually. They're definitely upgrades on players we had last season in their respective positions but collectively I'm not sure they're gonna be that effective.

You're saying the same but in a nicer way!

We should know by now our best attacking formation(that is what pre season is for) the new signings were hailed in some quarters as amazing (better technically no doubt) but as you say might not be effective and however you cut it we are short of a big man up front to act as a focal point.

How overjoyed we were when the signings were brought in early, a real chance to bed them in properly and decide on your best system etc but no we are still in pre season mode. We didn't make one close range chance on Saturday and last night was beyond the pale.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He never knows his best team, does he? That is what pre season is supposed to be about. All the excited comments on here and elsewhere about how good our signings were and how much pace we've added look in tatters already.

Add to that we are woefully light up front.

Christ, you must’ve needed a padded room when we were relegation fodder…

Quoted from Son of Cod

Bloody hell, give them a chance. We've not really seen Pyke or Wilson yet! I don't think it's a question of being woefully light (think we could do with one more) it's more a question of getting the system that fits the players at his disposal. Rose needs to be in a two for me, said that all along. Nothing against Rose, Vernam and Eisa individually. They're definitely upgrades on players we had last season in their respective positions but collectively I'm not sure they're gonna be that effective.

Mansfield were excellent at working an overload on Glennon. Vernam was drawn back to help out but was immediately closed down by their press. Their midfield, especially Lewis were better at supporting their wide men, creating angles and options. Way too mobile and clever for Holohan and Green. Gnahoua was not ready for such a test. Barely knows anyone and had no space. A cameo out wide would have been better for a player with no pre season.

Vernam tried to beat players where a simple lay off would suffice. Mansfield only tried to beat players when near the box and rarely gave up possession in midfield.

Quoted from aldi_01

Christ, you must’ve needed a padded room when we were relegation fodder…

Have you been to the games? What is your opinion?

I would've asked why Efete came on at left back rather than Amos

Putting last night to one side , this first 10 games were never going to be easy - we have been front loaded with all the well financed and settled teams right at the start barring Notts who seem to be imploding after 2 games .

It might be negative but I would be happy with 6 or 7 points from the first 5 games which I think would be a reasonable start given the opponents . When we get through the first 10 there are a lot more (on paper) favourable fixtures that should in theory yield a lot of points .

Notts on Saturday is certainly a chance to get off the mark on the goalscoring front - a poor defence , playing that high line with their best defender now suspended .

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He never knows his best team, does he? That is what pre season is supposed to be about. All the excited comments on here and elsewhere about how good our signings were and how much pace we've added look in tatters already.

He started his best team on Saturday that was available to him, having tried it out in the Lincoln game. He used pre-season to try formations and variations of players.  The point of a squad is that you have players coming into form at different points, I'd rather he doesn't know his best team all the time and have players challenging each other.

It's two games in, one of which we played a side that would take a lot of injuries for us to field in a league fixture.

Just like how two wins this week wouldn't have made us Champions elect, a draw and a cup defeat doesn't put everything in 'tatters'.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You're saying the same but in a nicer way!

We should know by now our best attacking formation(that is what pre season is for) the new signings were hailed in some quarters as amazing (better technically no doubt) but as you say might not be effective and however you cut it we are short of a big man up front to act as a focal point.

How overjoyed we were when the signings were brought in early, a real chance to bed them in properly and decide on your best system etc but no we are still in pre season mode. We didn't make one close range chance on Saturday and last night was beyond the pale.

I don't think that 6(?) pre-season games, 1 league match and a League Cup game is really adequate for Hurst to 100% know exactly who is best XI are. I agree that we're a big man short though or at least a different sort of striker to Rose. Pyke could provide that once he's properly up and running.

Quoted from Croxton

Mansfield were excellent at working an overload on Glennon. Vernam was drawn back to help out but was immediately closed down by their press. Their midfield, especially Lewis were better at supporting their wide men, creating angles and options. Way too mobile and clever for Holohan and Green. Gnahoua was not ready for such a test. Barely knows anyone and had no space. A cameo out wide would have been better for a player with no pre season.

Vernam tried to beat players where a simple lay off would suffice. Mansfield only tried to beat players when near the box and rarely gave up possession in midfield.

So would you say the bigger selection error was midfield as opposed to attack? I also assumed Eisa was in the middle of that three and Gnahoua was on the right, was that not the case?

Quoted from diehardmariner

He started his best team on Saturday that was available to him, having tried it out in the Lincoln game. He used pre-season to try formations and variations of players.  The point of a squad is that you have players coming into form at different points, I'd rather he doesn't know his best team all the time and have players challenging each other.

It's two games in, one of which we played a side that would take a lot of injuries for us to field in a league fixture.

Just like how two wins this week wouldn't have made us Champions elect, a draw and a cup defeat doesn't put everything in 'tatters'.

Well let's see how it pans out then. His "best team" didn't create a single close range chance on Saturday and despite people enthusing we could field 2 strong teams last night was a shocker. Why wouldn't you continue to play your strongest team in an important cup game?

None of us know how it will go so we can only comment on what we see.

If the team is still gelling, which it is is, you can argue that last night was a free- hit to continue this long process.

Hurst should already know the strengths and weaknesses of his squad players.

Easy to say this after the event.  A better team and better performance would have built some confidence.

Quoted from Croxton

Mansfield were excellent at working an overload on Glennon. Vernam was drawn back to help out but was immediately closed down by their press. Their midfield, especially Lewis were better at supporting their wide men, creating angles and options. Way too mobile and clever for Holohan and Green. Gnahoua was not ready for such a test. Barely knows anyone and had no space. A cameo out wide would have been better for a player with no pre season.

Vernam tried to beat players where a simple lay off would suffice. Mansfield only tried to beat players when near the box and rarely gave up possession in midfield.

I do wonder if this is where the problems stemmed from last night. Neither are particularly mobile and neither are particularly good at looking after the ball. If you're being over run and then giving the ball away cheaply when you do get it, it's a recipe for disaster. I would be highly surprised if those two start any league games together. That isn't to say that other players didn't let themselves down but if your central midfield is completely dominated then you're facing an up hill battle.

Quoted from Son of Cod

I don't think that 6(?) pre-season games, 1 league match and a League Cup game is really adequate for Hurst to 100% know exactly who is best XI are. I agree that we're a big man short though or at least a different sort of striker to Rose. Pyke could provide that once he's properly up and running.



So would you say the bigger selection error was midfield as opposed to attack? I also assumed Eisa was in the middle of that three and Gnahoua was on the right, was that not the case?

Gnahoua didn’t know where the feck he was…! He’s had no preseason so there is an excuse. Just surprised PH chucked him in there.

Quoted from mariner91

I do wonder if this is where the problems stemmed from last night. Neither are particularly mobile and neither are particularly good at looking after the ball. If you're being over run and then giving the ball away cheaply when you do get it, it's a recipe for disaster. I would be highly surprised if those two start any league games together. That isn't to say that other players didn't let themselves down but if your central midfield is completely dominated then you're facing an up hill battle.

I differ with you there as I think both are physically capable enough - strong, can run, not slow. It's their relative lack of ability on the ball which would be an issue for me as neither is technically the most gifted and you don't really expect them to keep possession effectively. Holohan has a knack of popping up with goals but I agree he's not really going to be first choice this season unless we have a few injuries. Green useful to bolster the defence in a backs against the wall sort of a performance.

It sounds as though we just weren't at the races throughout the team last night, which does happen. Could be a tricky one on Saturday now as County have a lot to prove to their fans so will really be going for it.

They are apparently hopeless at the back, so we need to take advantage of the chances that come our way.

‘Kinell….have we always been this bothered about the league cup?

Quoted from sam gy

‘Kinell….have we always been this bothered about the league cup?

It’s the timing. We’re two games in, have had one reasonable performance and one very poor one, having not looked awfully like scoring along the way.

I don’t see these two opening games as being necessarily characteristic of the remaining 45 league + cup games to come, it’s a long season and there’s sufficient evidence that PH can be trusted to get things right in the long-term, but people are naturally going to extrapolate the first two games in the absence of any broader context, hence the negativity.

Saturday’s performance or result is either going to dampen or amplify that sentiment, depending on how things go, but there’s a long way to go so, whatever happens, people shouldn’t be too quick to lose their shít, imo.

Judging from the moaning, you’d imagine those that have spent all summer going on about capacity won’t need to worry about the few threat can’t get a ticket; season ticket holders will be releasing their tickets, and the queues outside BP for match day tickets will have dissipated…

The thing is, football is NOT a level playing field.  There are teams that have players with more pace than us, players that have more quality than ours, and like last night, teams that have played together for some time and have gelled better than us.

It would be nice to win every game, but that is not going to happen, for us OR any other team.  For me, if every eleven we put out on the field every week gives 100% and plays to the best of their abilities, then we can ask for no more.

Sure it's ok to come on here and voice your opinions on players performance on the night, but we are a League Two team, not Premier League, and many mistakes will be made, but as long as they put in the effort and do their best, I think we need to cut them a bit of slack.

Quoted from 123614

The thing is, football is NOT a level playing field.  There are teams that have players with more pace than us, players that have more quality than ours, and like last night, teams that have played together for some time and have gelled better than us.

It would be nice to win every game, but that is not going to happen, for us OR any other team.  For me, if every eleven we put out on the field every week gives 100% and plays to the best of their abilities, then we can ask for no more.

Sure it's ok to come on here and voice your opinions on players performance on the night, but we are a League Two team, not Premier League, and many mistakes will be made, but as long as they put in the effort and do their best, I think we need to cut them a bit of slack.

For Me bear, there was some last night who didnt do that, we looked very half arsed.

hurst said as much in his post match interview as well

If that is the case, I don't know, wasn't there, then I'm sure PH will sort that out pretty damn quick.

Having watched the home friendlies and the Wimbledon game I understand the concern over the creation of chances and what appears to be an inability to score goals. Thinking back to the Lincoln game in particular seem to recall that we were getting a number of players into the box as crosses came in thus helping to create more problems for the opposition whereas v Wimbledon we appeared to take a step backwards and just have Rose and possibly one other floater.

I also expected that our forwards would be pressing more up top but felt on Saturday that we allowed them too much time at the back.
Probably my age but I’m not a fan of 2 wide players with one central striker but seems to be the modern way and of course we have not yet had chance to see a fit Pyke and Wilson play in competitive matches and when fit will PH adjust his formation?  Having these players injured for the latter friendlies obviously didn’t help PH determine his preferred forward options.

With so many new players we have to expect tweaks to style and personnel will take place in these early games and while changing the side v Mansfield restricts the chance of the team gelling it did allow the chance for a number of players getting minutes in their legs in a competitive game and with a busy fixture list ahead this might prove a wise move. Didn’t we play a much changed team last year v Crewe and win comfortably? Think this was helped by the fact that Crewe also made changes whereas Mansfield went full strength.

I would like a big mobile number nine added to the squad but other than that I think we will be fine.

In the last seven times we've been in the league cup (since our original promotion out of the national league) we've only got past the 1st round twice....and i never remember seeing such a big thing being made out of it, unless i have a short memory? highly likely.

Just think that he used the game to give some of the fringe (and one brand new) players a chance, which was the right thing to do imo...for squad harmony, and to say pretty much everyone has been given a chance to impress, without experimenting during a league game.

it drastically failed, but sometimes you learn more from defeats than you do from victories. and he sure as hell learned a lot last night.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

Well let's see how it pans out then. His "best team" didn't create a single close range chance on Saturday and despite people enthusing we could field 2 strong teams last night was a shocker. Why wouldn't you continue to play your strongest team in an important cup game?

None of us know how it will go so we can only comment on what we see.

If any of the long range shots go in on Saturday are you still cursing the lack of close range efforts?  It was one game. That's it.  I think Hurst himself noted that he was disappointed we didn't create more near the goal, he knows what we need to do better.  I said post-game I think he needs to be less cautious and have just one holding midfielder rather than two, especially at home.  I thought on Saturday, especially in the first 30 minutes, we were superb in getting up to 30 yards out then our final delivery let us down (from everyone).  I'm confident that it won't be everyone, each week, who fluffs at the crucial moment.

Why didn't he play the same team?  Probably because we've got games coming thick and fast in the first 6 weeks of the season and he wants to make sure his players are fresh with everyone as match sharp as possible.

Give it a few more games, see how it pans out then.  At least give them a chance.  We only scored 4 in the first 6 in 1997/98

Feel like this whole "we didn't have enough chances inside the box" angle, whilst fair, is overshadowing the fact that we actually did have a fair few decent chances, and if one of them had gone in, who would give a excrement?

In particular, that play for the Rose header was absolutely incredible...if Glennon's cross had been a tad lower, Rose is burying it and we all talk about it for years to come. You can't just create chances like that against teams if you're a excrement team?

Quoted from diehardmariner

If any of the long range shots go in on Saturday are you still cursing the lack of close range efforts?  It was one game. That's it.  I think Hurst himself noted that he was disappointed we didn't create more near the goal, he knows what we need to do better.  I said post-game I think he needs to be less cautious and have just one holding midfielder rather than two, especially at home.  I thought on Saturday, especially in the first 30 minutes, we were superb in getting up to 30 yards out then our final delivery let us down (from everyone).  I'm confident that it won't be everyone, each week, who fluffs at the crucial moment.

Why didn't he play the same team?  Probably because we've got games coming thick and fast in the first 6 weeks of the season and he wants to make sure his players are fresh with everyone as match sharp as possible.

Give it a few more games, see how it pans out then.  At least give them a chance.  We only scored 4 in the first 6 in 1997/98

We attend a game, we discuss it and dissect it afterwards. In real time, as events unfold. That is the way it works.

None of us know what Saturday will bring, or the rest of the season. We might get promoted, we might get relegated.

At this point, it is perfectly acceptable to say we haven't created chances; if you point out our inadequacies post match then why is that different to anyone else?

It might be completely different on Saturday. If it is then great, and no doubt I will post accordingly. If its another disaster then we will discuss that.

I have known many seasons where we started off with high hopes only to be relegated so there is no point quoting 1997 or any other year as each season is different.

We should play the same team because that is how you become a team - if after 10 games or so we need fresh legs then we can make one or two changes but keep the continuity. It's a squad game but that doesn't mean Russian roulette in team selection.

Agree with all that Lew .

On Holahan & Green I think many including me are been a touch harsh .

They don't work as a combination but to write them off is probably a touch unfair - they really did not let us down last season and are good lads .

Them 'being not good enough ' is probably a more nuanced conversation than that just being fact - they are in reality at best mid to lower end league 2 players who's main strengths are badly exposed when playing the sides with the better technical players , but who when it's a typical mid to lower end league 2 game and there is no need to get on the ball ,because it's scrappy and in the air a lot  the majority of us think are half decent .

Roll on Saturday and hopefully a first win .

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He never knows his best team, does he? That is what pre season is supposed to be about. All the excited comments on here and elsewhere about how good our signings were and how much pace we've added look in tatters already.

Add to that we are woefully light up front.

Haven't read past this comment yet as I couldn't help but get a little irate at the "in tatters" part.

Didn't listen or follow on thread on the game last night other than the BBC match stats and text info, but there's no doubting that alone doesn't paint a great picture of performance. I'm sure those who attended last night (and when I get to reading will confirm) will say that it was as poor as BBC suggests.

But we're two games in!!

His best team may change dependant on specific threats of the opposition. It's easy to say 'play your best team and we'll win' but that's naive. We don't have the best players per position across all teams otherwise we'd be favourites. We have better quality players than last season and we were early into our business which was far more positive than waiting til the last minute as usual for whatever is left over. That doesn't equate to an instant 10 game opening win streak and the worlds most advanced football.

The game is just as much a strategic and tactical one as it is a technical one and it will go wrong from time to time, just as much as we'll get it right when everything says we shouldn't (Plymouth, Luton, Southampton......).

PH is no mug nor is he a bad manager. He isn't to everyones taste but that's normal of any fanbase. There will undoubtedly come a time where he either exceeds expectations and progresses to a club higher up, or he will underperform and the time will be right to part ways. I don't think many (if any) are suggesting either of those times are now but to even think our season is over after two games is so premature.

If by the end of September rolls around and we haven't found any rhythm, can't find a system that seems to fit and we find ourselves inside the bottom 6 then of course I would fully understand the fear and frustration and might even possibly join in with it, but we're two games in.

Please let's not go running away with ideas that our summer is in tatters already.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Haven't read past this comment yet as I couldn't help but get a little irate at the "in tatters" part.

Didn't listen or follow on thread on the game last night other than the BBC match stats and text info, but there's no doubting that alone doesn't paint a great picture of performance. I'm sure those who attended last night (and when I get to reading will confirm) will say that it was as poor as BBC suggests.

But we're two games in!!

His best team may change dependant on specific threats of the opposition. It's easy to say 'play your best team and we'll win' but that's naive. We don't have the best players per position across all teams otherwise we'd be favourites. We have better quality players than last season and we were early into our business which was far more positive than waiting til the last minute as usual for whatever is left over. That doesn't equate to an instant 10 game opening win streak and the worlds most advanced football.

The game is just as much a strategic and tactical one as it is a technical one and it will go wrong from time to time, just as much as we'll get it right when everything says we shouldn't (Plymouth, Luton, Southampton......).

PH is no mug nor is he a bad manager. He isn't to everyones taste but that's normal of any fanbase. There will undoubtedly come a time where he either exceeds expectations and progresses to a club higher up, or he will underperform and the time will be right to part ways. I don't think many (if any) are suggesting either of those times are now but to even think our season is over after two games is so premature.

If by the end of September rolls around and we haven't found any rhythm, can't find a system that seems to fit and we find ourselves inside the bottom 6 then of course I would fully understand the fear and frustration and might even possibly join in with it, but we're two games in.

Please let's not go running away with ideas that our summer is in tatters already.

You might be better to read the comments to be fair. The "in tatters" comment was not the right choice of words. I should have said the overconfidence some posters placed on the new signings' "pace and power" looks misplaced from what we have seen thus far. I wasn't suggesting our season is over, only commenting on the two games I have seen so far.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

We attend a game, we discuss it and dissect it afterwards. In real time, as events unfold. That is the way it works.

None of us know what Saturday will bring, or the rest of the season. We might get promoted, we might get relegated.

At this point, it is perfectly acceptable to say we haven't created chances; if you point out our inadequacies post match then why is that different to anyone else?

It might be completely different on Saturday. If it is then great, and no doubt I will post accordingly. If its another disaster then we will discuss that.

I have known many seasons where we started off with high hopes only to be relegated so there is no point quoting 1997 or any other year as each season is different.

We should play the same team because that is how you become a team - if after 10 games or so we need fresh legs then we can make one or two changes but keep the continuity. It's a squad game but that doesn't mean Russian roulette in team selection.

Only the rest of the squad won't be fresh as they haven't played for 10 games and will have no match sharpness whatsoever.....

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Haven't read past this comment yet as I couldn't help but get a little irate at the "in tatters" part.

Didn't listen or follow on thread on the game last night other than the BBC match stats and text info, but there's no doubting that alone doesn't paint a great picture of performance. I'm sure those who attended last night (and when I get to reading will confirm) will say that it was as poor as BBC suggests.

But we're two games in!!

His best team may change dependant on specific threats of the opposition. It's easy to say 'play your best team and we'll win' but that's naive. We don't have the best players per position across all teams otherwise we'd be favourites. We have better quality players than last season and we were early into our business which was far more positive than waiting til the last minute as usual for whatever is left over. That doesn't equate to an instant 10 game opening win streak and the worlds most advanced football.

The game is just as much a strategic and tactical one as it is a technical one and it will go wrong from time to time, just as much as we'll get it right when everything says we shouldn't (Plymouth, Luton, Southampton......).

PH is no mug nor is he a bad manager. He isn't to everyones taste but that's normal of any fanbase. There will undoubtedly come a time where he either exceeds expectations and progresses to a club higher up, or he will underperform and the time will be right to part ways. I don't think many (if any) are suggesting either of those times are now but to even think our season is over after two games is so premature.

If by the end of September rolls around and we haven't found any rhythm, can't find a system that seems to fit and we find ourselves inside the bottom 6 then of course I would fully understand the fear and frustration and might even possibly join in with it, but we're two games in.

Please let's not go running away with ideas that our summer is in tatters already.

You seem to suggest that some are suggesting the team isn't as good as some think pointing out we are only a couple of games in but then you say we have better quality players, based on what?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

We attend a game, we discuss it and dissect it afterwards. In real time, as events unfold. That is the way it works.

So do you want to discuss and debate it or not?  

Quoted from arryarryarry

You seem to suggest that some are suggesting the team isn't as good as some think pointing out we are only a couple of games in but then you say we have better quality players, based on what?

Personal opinion, popular opinion and CV.

Rose > Taylor / Orsi
Eisa, Vernam, Gnahoua, Wilson, Pyke > The wingers we didn't have last season
Conteh > Morris
Rodgers > Pearson
Mullarkey > Cropper

It also isn't what I'm suggesting though. I'm not suggesting the team is any better or worse than anyone thinks. No-one really knows how good the team is yet ..... because we're two games in, that's my point and is the suggestion. Stay calm and not get carried away with all the negatives this early in the season.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You might be better to read the comments to be fair. The "in tatters" comment was not the right choice of words. I should have said the overconfidence some posters placed on the new signings' "pace and power" looks misplaced from what we have seen thus far. I wasn't suggesting our season is over, only commenting on the two games I have seen so far.

The wrong choice of words admission obviously changes some of the perspective, but I still stand by the idea of misplaced overconfidence is still premature. You may very well be right and by the end of September it will be much more apparent where our strengths and weaknesses lie against the backdrop of a wider range of teams played. But that can't be judged yet. Only you can tell what the underlying intent/tone of the message was but it certainly came across more towards the doom merchant end of the scale and we surely can't be thinking that way after only two games?

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Only the rest of the squad won't be fresh as they haven't played for 10 games and will have no match sharpness whatsoever.....

But we wouldn't need to make wholesale changes would we? We can accommodate one or two as circumstances dictate. It depends on whether you think we really ought to play what the manager considers his best 11 or not, or make continual and often wholesale changes to "keep things fresh."

Quoted from gtfc_chris

The wrong choice of words admission obviously changes some of the perspective, but I still stand by the idea of misplaced overconfidence is still premature. You may very well be right and by the end of September it will be much more apparent where our strengths and weaknesses lie against the backdrop of a wider range of teams played. But that can't be judged yet. Only you can tell what the underlying intent/tone of the message was but it certainly came across more towards the doom merchant end of the scale and we surely can't be thinking that way after only two games?

I have explained in some later posts that I can and will only comment on what I've seen. I have no idea what September will be like; I have no idea how the season will pan out. The only alternative is for none of us to comment till the seasons end. From what I have seen so far, with the players available and who have played a part then it feels very much like a lot of last season in terms of attacking play. You may feel differently and more power to your elbow.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He never knows his best team, does he? That is what pre season is supposed to be about. All the excited comments on here and elsewhere about how good our signings were and how much pace we've added look in tatters already.

Add to that we are woefully light up front.

Is there such a thing as a " best team"? It's easy to say set your team up and let the opposition worry but you still have to consider the opposition and set up with their dangers in mind.

Quoted from Son of Cod

I don't think that 6(?) pre-season games, 1 league match and a League Cup game is really adequate for Hurst to 100% know exactly who is best XI are. I agree that we're a big man short though or at least a different sort of striker to Rose. Pyke could provide that once he's properly up and running.



So would you say the bigger selection error was midfield as opposed to attack? I also assumed Eisa was in the middle of that three and Gnahoua was on the right, was that not the case?

You had me doubting my varifocals there! I checked the extended highlights and Gnahoua was central wearing 14.  The second goal was classic 'after you Claud' from Eisa and Gav giving Waterfall little chance.

Quoted from rancido

Is there such a thing as a " best team"? It's easy to say set your team up and let the opposition worry but you still have to consider the opposition and set up with their dangers in mind.

It's a good question but I would hope so. Much better teams than us have very strong squads, but the manager generally knows his best team.

It's also interesting to what extent we should be worried about the opposition, although that clearly wasn't the rationale last night which we seemed to approach as a glorified pre season friendly.

A lot of team changes in the cup have sometimes worked in the past, but you have to choose your battles carefully and against a well oiled and full strength Mansfield it was the wrong call. Perhaps Clough surprised us with his team selection and we thought they might make a lot of changes as well.

I would rest players one for one as things go on; some of our players can be rotated for example Amos for Glennon,  and Khan (when fit) for Vernam and several other examples but I am not a fan of constant swapping and changing in personnel and formation but would be pleasantly surprised if we go a couple of games unchanged.

Anyway it's gone now and luckily for everyone involved I'm not the manager.

I’m almost happy to be out the Carabao cup. Couldn’t give a stuff about it. There are too many games these days so rather have the rest time. League results are what I care about. Some players were given a chance to stake a claim in league games. They didn’t take it, almost to a man.
2 games without a goal is hard to hide from, but let’s see what the next month brings.

Hurst had to take the blame. His team, his tactics, and still useless. The poor fitness levels are very worrying for a professional football team.
HURST OUT

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Eisa, Vernam, Gnahoua, Wilson, Pyke > The wingers we didn't have last season

Clifton is probably better than these on the left. Can help out Glennon and get into the box 🙂

Quoted from BrMarin

Clifton is probably better than these on the left. Can help out Glennon and get into the box 🙂

Have to say, again as mentioned it in Just Back on Saturday, that I think playing on the left suits Clifton and the team and he is more likely to get in the box more often than Vernam. Don’t want to write Vernam off after just two matches but if he is to stay in the side he needs to up his performances significantly.

Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56

Have to say, again as mentioned it in Just Back on Saturday, that I think playing on the left suits Clifton and the team and he is more likely to get in the box more often than Vernam. Don’t want to write Vernam off after just two matches but if he is to stay in the side he needs to up his performances significantly.

I don’t think it’s writing Vernam off, and I wouldn’t worry anyway, some have already written the season off judging by the comments.

For me, Vernam has shown nothing since his return and all the fanfare that goes with that. As I said then, not doubting his ability but standing out in some of the most dreadful town sides means he’s remembered much more fondly than he should be.

I’m not a fan of Clifton wide but if Glennon has someone in front of him that he can trust he’s a much better player. Ironically, with Khan in front, who you’d argue isn’t as good as Vernam, Glennon has a better game.

This thing about managers knowing their best 11 and all that jazz is a fan thing, I know old Big nose Neville talks about it but in truth, the game isn’t played like that anymore, at any level. Very rarely do you see successful teams at the top keep the same 11 or shape, if they do it’s never more than a couple of games.

I think, rightly or wrongly, Hurst used Tuesday as an opportunity to play some players and a system that he thought may work but also to see if those players were up to the challenge and he’s admitted some were not, whilst taking responsibility. That said, would be nice from time to time to hear a player admit they had a stainker…

It’s done now, off to County we go who’ve had a real stinker to the start of their season…

Quoted from Mappers

Agree with all that Lew .

On Holahan & Green I think many including me are been a touch harsh .

They don't work as a combination but to write them off is probably a touch unfair - they really did not let us down last season and are good lads .

Them 'being not good enough ' is probably a more nuanced conversation than that just being fact - they are in reality at best mid to lower end league 2 players who's main strengths are badly exposed when playing the sides with the better technical players , but who when it's a typical mid to lower end league 2 game and there is no need to get on the ball ,because it's scrappy and in the air a lot  the majority of us think are half decent .

Roll on Saturday and hopefully a first win .

I'd agree with this. There is a strong case that Holohan offers more of a goal threat than Hunt. And there will still be games (like Stockport away last season) when we're under the cosh away from home and we need someone like Green in defensive midfield with height to help out with a bombardment of crosses.

Agree neither are probably starters in the first eleven, but to completely write them off as being rubbish is a bit daft.

Can’t believe what I’m reading at times, we lost about 10 in a row and still got promoted. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

Quoted from GyMariner

Can’t believe what I’m reading at times, we lost about 10 in a row and still got promoted. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

Exactly. We’ve just had to stop the race momentarily to re-tie our laces in the first 300 yards.

It’s not like we’ve pulled off the course, hoiked our lycra leotard to the side, curled out a massive dump, just to spend the next 26 miles running in shítty pants.

We’re still in touch with the Ethiopians and we haven’t been overtaken by the fat lad in the dragon outfit, the guy dressed as a magpie and the lady wearing an outfit made of celery (who, incidentally, is only participating in the marathon to chain herself to some railings).

One other thing that has not really been mentioned - how close is khouri to starting in the league ? assume he is knocking on the door now , he looks a very good player and very well suited to league 2 .

Quoted from GyMariner

Can’t believe what I’m reading at times, we lost about 10 in a row and still got promoted. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

But the idea of the forum is that we discuss things as they unfold!

Had we lost the first two we would be discussing that; had we won the first two we would be discussing that and if we had scored a goal we would be discussing that.

Quoted from Mappers

One other thing that has not really been mentioned - how close is khouri to starting in the league ? assume he is knocking on the door now , he looks a very good player and very well suited to league 2 .

I'd tend to doubt he'll be starting many games if Conteh is fit. His best chance will probably come off the bench if it isn't working out for Hunt or we need to bolster things in the middle (though not with a more physical present such as Green). Unless we change formation, of course.

I think Hunt, Conteh and Khouri will get a good amount of games between them, unless someone else comes in. Clifton will probably play close to every league minute.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I think Hunt, Conteh and Khouri will get a good amount of games between them, unless someone else comes in. Clifton will probably play close to every league minute.

Wouldn't surprise me to see all four start on Saturday. Clifton playing on the left hand side in place of Vernam.

Quoted from realist

HURST OUT

Yeah, apart from getting us to the playoffs five times, Wembley finals twice, getting promoted in 2016, getting promoted in 2022, getting to the FA cup quarterfinals in a manner no club has managed in the history of the competition, what has Hurst ever done for us?