Hurst post match Mansfied

Agree with all that Lew .

On Holahan & Green I think many including me are been a touch harsh .

They don't work as a combination but to write them off is probably a touch unfair - they really did not let us down last season and are good lads .

Them 'being not good enough ' is probably a more nuanced conversation than that just being fact - they are in reality at best mid to lower end league 2 players who's main strengths are badly exposed when playing the sides with the better technical players , but who when it's a typical mid to lower end league 2 game and there is no need to get on the ball ,because it's scrappy and in the air a lot  the majority of us think are half decent .

Roll on Saturday and hopefully a first win .

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

He never knows his best team, does he? That is what pre season is supposed to be about. All the excited comments on here and elsewhere about how good our signings were and how much pace we've added look in tatters already.

Add to that we are woefully light up front.

Haven't read past this comment yet as I couldn't help but get a little irate at the "in tatters" part.

Didn't listen or follow on thread on the game last night other than the BBC match stats and text info, but there's no doubting that alone doesn't paint a great picture of performance. I'm sure those who attended last night (and when I get to reading will confirm) will say that it was as poor as BBC suggests.

But we're two games in!!

His best team may change dependant on specific threats of the opposition. It's easy to say 'play your best team and we'll win' but that's naive. We don't have the best players per position across all teams otherwise we'd be favourites. We have better quality players than last season and we were early into our business which was far more positive than waiting til the last minute as usual for whatever is left over. That doesn't equate to an instant 10 game opening win streak and the worlds most advanced football.

The game is just as much a strategic and tactical one as it is a technical one and it will go wrong from time to time, just as much as we'll get it right when everything says we shouldn't (Plymouth, Luton, Southampton......).

PH is no mug nor is he a bad manager. He isn't to everyones taste but that's normal of any fanbase. There will undoubtedly come a time where he either exceeds expectations and progresses to a club higher up, or he will underperform and the time will be right to part ways. I don't think many (if any) are suggesting either of those times are now but to even think our season is over after two games is so premature.

If by the end of September rolls around and we haven't found any rhythm, can't find a system that seems to fit and we find ourselves inside the bottom 6 then of course I would fully understand the fear and frustration and might even possibly join in with it, but we're two games in.

Please let's not go running away with ideas that our summer is in tatters already.

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Haven't read past this comment yet as I couldn't help but get a little irate at the "in tatters" part.

Didn't listen or follow on thread on the game last night other than the BBC match stats and text info, but there's no doubting that alone doesn't paint a great picture of performance. I'm sure those who attended last night (and when I get to reading will confirm) will say that it was as poor as BBC suggests.

But we're two games in!!

His best team may change dependant on specific threats of the opposition. It's easy to say 'play your best team and we'll win' but that's naive. We don't have the best players per position across all teams otherwise we'd be favourites. We have better quality players than last season and we were early into our business which was far more positive than waiting til the last minute as usual for whatever is left over. That doesn't equate to an instant 10 game opening win streak and the worlds most advanced football.

The game is just as much a strategic and tactical one as it is a technical one and it will go wrong from time to time, just as much as we'll get it right when everything says we shouldn't (Plymouth, Luton, Southampton......).

PH is no mug nor is he a bad manager. He isn't to everyones taste but that's normal of any fanbase. There will undoubtedly come a time where he either exceeds expectations and progresses to a club higher up, or he will underperform and the time will be right to part ways. I don't think many (if any) are suggesting either of those times are now but to even think our season is over after two games is so premature.

If by the end of September rolls around and we haven't found any rhythm, can't find a system that seems to fit and we find ourselves inside the bottom 6 then of course I would fully understand the fear and frustration and might even possibly join in with it, but we're two games in.

Please let's not go running away with ideas that our summer is in tatters already.

You might be better to read the comments to be fair. The "in tatters" comment was not the right choice of words. I should have said the overconfidence some posters placed on the new signings' "pace and power" looks misplaced from what we have seen thus far. I wasn't suggesting our season is over, only commenting on the two games I have seen so far.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

We attend a game, we discuss it and dissect it afterwards. In real time, as events unfold. That is the way it works.

None of us know what Saturday will bring, or the rest of the season. We might get promoted, we might get relegated.

At this point, it is perfectly acceptable to say we haven't created chances; if you point out our inadequacies post match then why is that different to anyone else?

It might be completely different on Saturday. If it is then great, and no doubt I will post accordingly. If its another disaster then we will discuss that.

I have known many seasons where we started off with high hopes only to be relegated so there is no point quoting 1997 or any other year as each season is different.

We should play the same team because that is how you become a team - if after 10 games or so we need fresh legs then we can make one or two changes but keep the continuity. It's a squad game but that doesn't mean Russian roulette in team selection.

Only the rest of the squad won't be fresh as they haven't played for 10 games and will have no match sharpness whatsoever.....

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Haven't read past this comment yet as I couldn't help but get a little irate at the "in tatters" part.

Didn't listen or follow on thread on the game last night other than the BBC match stats and text info, but there's no doubting that alone doesn't paint a great picture of performance. I'm sure those who attended last night (and when I get to reading will confirm) will say that it was as poor as BBC suggests.

But we're two games in!!

His best team may change dependant on specific threats of the opposition. It's easy to say 'play your best team and we'll win' but that's naive. We don't have the best players per position across all teams otherwise we'd be favourites. We have better quality players than last season and we were early into our business which was far more positive than waiting til the last minute as usual for whatever is left over. That doesn't equate to an instant 10 game opening win streak and the worlds most advanced football.

The game is just as much a strategic and tactical one as it is a technical one and it will go wrong from time to time, just as much as we'll get it right when everything says we shouldn't (Plymouth, Luton, Southampton......).

PH is no mug nor is he a bad manager. He isn't to everyones taste but that's normal of any fanbase. There will undoubtedly come a time where he either exceeds expectations and progresses to a club higher up, or he will underperform and the time will be right to part ways. I don't think many (if any) are suggesting either of those times are now but to even think our season is over after two games is so premature.

If by the end of September rolls around and we haven't found any rhythm, can't find a system that seems to fit and we find ourselves inside the bottom 6 then of course I would fully understand the fear and frustration and might even possibly join in with it, but we're two games in.

Please let's not go running away with ideas that our summer is in tatters already.

You seem to suggest that some are suggesting the team isn't as good as some think pointing out we are only a couple of games in but then you say we have better quality players, based on what?

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

We attend a game, we discuss it and dissect it afterwards. In real time, as events unfold. That is the way it works.

So do you want to discuss and debate it or not?  

Quoted from arryarryarry

You seem to suggest that some are suggesting the team isn't as good as some think pointing out we are only a couple of games in but then you say we have better quality players, based on what?

Personal opinion, popular opinion and CV.

Rose > Taylor / Orsi
Eisa, Vernam, Gnahoua, Wilson, Pyke > The wingers we didn't have last season
Conteh > Morris
Rodgers > Pearson
Mullarkey > Cropper

It also isn't what I'm suggesting though. I'm not suggesting the team is any better or worse than anyone thinks. No-one really knows how good the team is yet ..... because we're two games in, that's my point and is the suggestion. Stay calm and not get carried away with all the negatives this early in the season.

Quoted from lew chaterleys lover

You might be better to read the comments to be fair. The "in tatters" comment was not the right choice of words. I should have said the overconfidence some posters placed on the new signings' "pace and power" looks misplaced from what we have seen thus far. I wasn't suggesting our season is over, only commenting on the two games I have seen so far.

The wrong choice of words admission obviously changes some of the perspective, but I still stand by the idea of misplaced overconfidence is still premature. You may very well be right and by the end of September it will be much more apparent where our strengths and weaknesses lie against the backdrop of a wider range of teams played. But that can't be judged yet. Only you can tell what the underlying intent/tone of the message was but it certainly came across more towards the doom merchant end of the scale and we surely can't be thinking that way after only two games?

Quoted from gtfc_chris

Only the rest of the squad won't be fresh as they haven't played for 10 games and will have no match sharpness whatsoever.....

But we wouldn't need to make wholesale changes would we? We can accommodate one or two as circumstances dictate. It depends on whether you think we really ought to play what the manager considers his best 11 or not, or make continual and often wholesale changes to "keep things fresh."

Quoted from gtfc_chris

The wrong choice of words admission obviously changes some of the perspective, but I still stand by the idea of misplaced overconfidence is still premature. You may very well be right and by the end of September it will be much more apparent where our strengths and weaknesses lie against the backdrop of a wider range of teams played. But that can't be judged yet. Only you can tell what the underlying intent/tone of the message was but it certainly came across more towards the doom merchant end of the scale and we surely can't be thinking that way after only two games?

I have explained in some later posts that I can and will only comment on what I've seen. I have no idea what September will be like; I have no idea how the season will pan out. The only alternative is for none of us to comment till the seasons end. From what I have seen so far, with the players available and who have played a part then it feels very much like a lot of last season in terms of attacking play. You may feel differently and more power to your elbow.