GTFC Form Reality Check

Lost 7 out of last 8 in all competitions.

Just a quick reminder for those on here who

a) believe this is somehow play off position form (yes plenty on here still saying this tonight).

b) who believe Paul Hurst is the best manager for GTFC.

c) who believe Paul Hurst is not in any way culpable for the above.

d) who believe there can’t possibly be no other choice other than Paul Hurst as manager.

I repeat: LOST SEVEN OUT OF EIGHT

and you would give this man on this form January??

Quoted from heppy88

Lost 7 out of last 8 in all competitions.

Just a quick reminder for those on here who

a) believe this is somehow play off position form (yes plenty on here still saying this tonight).

b) who believe Paul Hurst is the best manager for GTFC.

c) who believe Paul Hurst is not in any way culpable for the above.

d) who believe there can’t possibly be no other choice other than Paul Hurst as manager.

I repeat: LOST SEVEN OUT OF EIGHT

and you would give this man on this form January??

Iwouldnt give him untill 7pm tonight to clear his desk

Who exactly would you get to replace him? Honestly, what were people expecting this season?

Big ask for any manager to get all the players he wants and for all the signings to work out from one summer window. It was always going to be a a rebuild that took more than a year. Look at Chesterfield and County.

Yes, it’s a poor run of form but when McAtee is back and with the window around the corner, things could easily tip back the other way. Bringing in a new manager who would inevitably make a load of wholesale changes for me isn’t the answer.

Patience has never been a strength of GTFC fans or any football fan to be honest, but important to consider the bigger picture.

I’m afraid after the previous 5/6 seasons of having to watch and listen to Mr Hurst there was no way I wanted him back, but he came back, didn’t save us from relegation, and is now continuing as before. Can we wait another 4/5 seasons before we get promotion.

Ooh look at you, eager to dive in Denni.
Understand the original post - statistically really concerning, but, as many people know from their jobs - statistics are nothing without narrative and context. Fully respect people who say they think Hurst should go, but feel that the context and the narrative tell you more than the bare stats quoted above. Today was very nearly a draw, as was Notts county and Dagenham and most of the other defeats were very fine margins. Injuries/illness and suspensions have been and are now, a real issue.

We are without some key players and there was a commitment and effort visible today that would, personally, make me want to persevere as I feel that this is a very competitive squad and Hurst a very good manager. Little point in going all ‘daggers drawn’ and dramatic and alarmist in my view. I’d prefer to ride this out and back the club even though I acknowledge that the bare stats/results would put any manager under pressure and the league position and form is very much a disappointment and significantly below the standard we have set in early season and what we should rightly be striving for/expect.

Hurst has to shoulder the blame, I'd give him two more games to sort it out. Plenty of effort from the players just poor tactics today

Quoted from davmariner

Who exactly would you get to replace him?

Patience has never been a strength of GTFC fans or any football fan to be honest, but important to consider the bigger picture.

It’s not my job to identify a current replacement for Hurst FFS but when a manager is consistently under performing in football that’s what you do.

Patience has never been a strength of GTFC fans ?? You having a laugh 😂  Six years in the non league and all the shite we’ve put up with in the last 20 years and Town fans have no patience!!

We need some quality signings in January then who knows where we will end up.

BUT

If they are the usual cheap options then we can forget going up this season.

We need to spend some money.

Not sure what else he does we was missing our best two players hunt & mcatee , ok we only created two chances but so did top of the lge , differance being they've a top striker for this level

Quoted from chaos33

Ooh look at you, eager to dive in Denni.
Understand the original post - statistically really concerning, but, as many people know from their jobs - statistics are nothing without narrative and context. Fully respect people who say they think Hurst should go, but feel that the context and the narrative tell you more than the bare stats quoted above. Today was very nearly a draw, as was Notts county and Dagenham and most of the other defeats were very fine margins. Injuries/illness and suspensions have been and are now, a real issue.

We are without some key players and there was a commitment and effort visible today that would, personally, make me want to persevere as I feel that this is a very competitive squad and Hurst a very good manager. Little point in going all ‘daggers drawn’ and dramatic and alarmist in my view. I’d prefer to ride this out and back the club even though I acknowledge that the bare stats/results would put any manager under pressure and the league position and form is very much a disappointment and significantly below the standard we have set in early season and what we should rightly be striving for/expect.

Appreciate your point of view but ‘very nearly a draw’ doesn’t get you anything. I’d much rather we’d had a right go but that’s down to a manager who is looking after himself and isn’t (and never was) bothered about the fans.

The team were definitely playing for Hurst despite what some people are saying and we match Chesterfield, top of the league very well today without our key members of the team. I hope our new owners have the patience that many of us have as this isn’t going to happen over night as some folk seem to think……

Quoted from oochiad

The team were definitely playing for Hurst despite what some people are saying and we match Chesterfield, top of the league very well today without our key members of the team. I hope our new owners have the patience that many of us have as this isn’t going to happen over night as some folk seem to think……

But Chesterfield are saying they’ve got 11 players out injured, suspended. Also if we recruit in January it doesn’t have to be cheap, I would assume the new owners have budgeted this season on a certain attendance, but as the actual attendances are above this figure then in theory there should be additional money in the bank to spend.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Appreciate your point of view but ‘very nearly a draw’ doesn’t get you anything. I’d much rather we’d had a right go but that’s down to a manager who is looking after himself and isn’t (and never was) bothered about the fans.

Well that’s a simplistic assumption, and you, above most, know better than that. I can understand going back to basics today and trying to grind something out. I’ve been watching football long enough to get that.

Wait till Boreham wood school us in ten days time, then you will see some outcry on here. I get that hurst had to do a rebuild and he’s had some key injuries and suspensions but his in-game management is appalling, successful managers are not afraid to change tactics or subs well before the 80 minute mark, Hurst does neither. He’s an hour from his house so is happy to go through the motions
UTM

If you had a point, you ruined it with that crass remark at the end.

Just seen a stat that's really made me stand up and listen .. Hurst has won 19 of his last 100 games as a manager..1 in 5 games...not great is it..

Didn't like the bloke first time around, didn't want him back, didn't keep us up so would have got rid at the end of last season.
But having said that, he's here and started the season like a train so I would give him to the end of January to see if he can recapture that form. If not I would boot him out and bring in Anthony Limbrick.

What??

Quoted from TAGG

Didn't like the bloke first time around, didn't want him back, didn't keep us up so would have got rid at the end of last season.
But having said that, he's here and started the season like a train so I would give him to the end of January to see if he can recapture that form. If not I would boot him out and bring in Anthony Limbrick.

Hell of a commute for Limbrick. Petrol has gone up so no chance he’s driving up here!

Quoted from TAGG

Didn't like the bloke first time around, didn't want him back, didn't keep us up so would have got rid at the end of last season.
But having said that, he's here and started the season like a train so I would give him to the end of January to see if he can recapture that form. If not I would boot him out and bring in Anthony Limbrick.

This is where I feel for the board tbh...do they stick with Hurst and let him bring in players in January, or boot him out and give somebody else the chance to rebuild again?..right now they are trying to rebuild the club from the ground up and recent results have made their task even harder.
Keeping the fans onboard is tough right now and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes as it stands

Quoted from chaos33

If you had a point, you ruined it with that crass remark at the end.

We’ve all taken jobs we didn’t really fancy to be closer to home, it happens

We have last season to judge Hurst on his January shopping skills 😂

Hurst said in the summer that he wanted to recruit players with the right attitude. To me, he could and should have moved nearer to the club, that would have shown the right attitude and a good example. If I were a player, I’d expect the manager to be setting that example. It’s a bit ‘do as I say, not as I do’.

Something has gone drastically wrong since the great start, alas we'll probably never know what.

19 wins out of 100, perhaps says a lot.

Scoring goals like it was a practice game, to this.

Can it be turned around, not sure but Something has to change, no expert so not sure what.

Personaly just go for it no and again, if the style is play for a draw  that often bites you.

Substitution at 80ish minutes are doing my head in though.

I can but hope we turn it around

A loss at Stockport and season over, get rid

Personally I’ve no idea as to why our performance has dropped off a cliff. Think that’s for others with more information, knowledge and experience to assess.

Good job Arsenal didn’t sack Arteta when Arsenal were hopeless. I’m not saying hurst is arteta. I’m making the point that sacking people is not always the answer.

At the moment I am keeping my spending money in my pocket and betting on Grimsby to lose. Not really but always look on the bright side.

It certainly is a strange time. We were flying and now this, both under Hurst, the good and the bad. Nobody can deny that losing 7 in 8 is absolutely horrific but I still do not think Hurst needs to be sacked. I really feel like that is an unnecessary step backwards at this point. With little or no benefit to immediate matters.

Some things Hurst does absolutely wind me up, but I honestly find myself agreeing with his rationale more often than not. To the post that mentioned him living an hour away... I live 45 minutes away and attend every home game and believe me I am town through and through, so not really sure I follow your point on that one.

One thing is for sure, hounding JS on twitter calling him clueless and demanding he sacks PH is absolutely despicable. Another thing for sure is you'll see me at the next home game and the one after that and so on. UTM. This can just as quickly turn the other way. Keeps your heads on.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Hurst said in the summer that he wanted to recruit players with the right attitude. To me, he could and should have moved nearer to the club, that would have shown the right attitude and a good example. If I were a player, I’d expect the manager to be setting that example. It’s a bit ‘do as I say, not as I do’.

Your attitude has nothing to do with where you live. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who live in Grimsby but work in Hull, Lincoln, Sheffield or Leeds.

Maybe their bosses should tell them they are being sacked if they don't move closer to their office?

Quoted from RobDef1

It certainly is a strange time. We were flying and now this, both under Hurst, the good and the bad. Nobody can deny that losing 7 in 8 is absolutely horrific but I still do not think Hurst needs to be sacked. I really feel like that is an unnecessary step backwards at this point. With little or no benefit to immediate matters.

Some things Hurst does absolutely wind me up, but I honestly find myself agreeing with his rationale more often than not. To the post that mentioned him living an hour away... I live 45 minutes away and attend every home game and believe me I am town through and through, so not really sure I follow your point on that one.

One thing is for sure, hounding JS on twitter calling him clueless and demanding he sacks PH is absolutely despicable. Another thing for sure is you'll see me at the next home game and the one after that and so on. UTM. This can just as quickly turn the other way. Keeps your heads on.

I don’t doubt that you are town through and through but you have a connection, Mr Hurst does not, he’s a bit of a legend in Rotherham and rightly so but he has no true connection with GY, remember the cupped ears.
He’s too stuck in his ways and not flexible enough to be a modern manager, I hope like everyone else he turns it round but I just don’t see it

Quoted from RobDef1

It certainly is a strange time. We were flying and now this, both under Hurst, the good and the bad. Nobody can deny that losing 7 in 8 is absolutely horrific but I still do not think Hurst needs to be sacked. I really feel like that is an unnecessary step backwards at this point. With little or no benefit to immediate matters.

Some things Hurst does absolutely wind me up, but I honestly find myself agreeing with his rationale more often than not. To the post that mentioned him living an hour away... I live 45 minutes away and attend every home game and believe me I am town through and through, so not really sure I follow your point on that one.

One thing is for sure, hounding JS on twitter calling him clueless and demanding he sacks PH is absolutely despicable. Another thing for sure is you'll see me at the next home game and the one after that and so on. UTM. This can just as quickly turn the other way. Keeps your heads on.

You’re a fan.

The manager is asking players to buy into the club, create a new culture etc. yet he can’t be bothered to move nearer. It cuts both ways.

Quoted from grimsby pete

We need some quality signings in January then who knows where we will end up.

BUT

If they are the usual cheap options then we can forget going up this season.

We need to spend some money.

Every team will be strengthening their squad Pete so we could be in the same position. On current form we are relegation fodder and if Hurst doesn't alter his tactics we could be playing Ragarse Rovers in the not too distant future

Quoted from psgmariner

Hell of a commute for Limbrick. Petrol has gone up so no chance he’s driving up here!

So his feet are nailed to the floor then??

Quoted from MuddyWaters

You’re a fan.

The manager is asking players to buy into the club, create a new culture etc. yet he can’t be bothered to move nearer. It cuts both ways.

Cheap shot that, if he puts the hours in which he clearly does what does it matter where he lives. Do some research a lot of managers are not based in the location where they manage, many more lower league players definitely aren’t.

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Cheap shot that, if he puts the hours in which he clearly does what does it matter where he lives. Do some research a lot of managers are not based in the location where they manage, many more lower league players definitely aren’t.

I don’t think it is.

He’s been given a great opportunity by the owners together with a lot of reassurance, he could have shown a reciprocal level of commitment.

Quoted from davmariner

Who exactly would you get to replace him? Honestly, what were people expecting this season?

Big ask for any manager to get all the players he wants and for all the signings to work out from one summer window. It was always going to be a a rebuild that took more than a year. Look at Chesterfield and County.

Yes, it’s a poor run of form but when McAtee is back and with the window around the corner, things could easily tip back the other way. Bringing in a new manager who would inevitably make a load of wholesale changes for me isn’t the answer.

Patience has never been a strength of GTFC fans or any football fan to be honest, but important to consider the bigger picture.

If his record of 12 wins in 100 games is correct, there can't be that many managers even those out of work with a worse record.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don’t think it is.

He’s been given a great opportunity by the owners together with a lot of reassurance, he could have shown a reciprocal level of commitment.

Cmon your talking nonsense. He shouldnt move here at all.

Quoted from Hagrid

Cmon your talking nonsense. He shouldnt move here at all.

Why not? He’s gone on record expecting players to buy into the ethos/culture yet he’s been manager here 7 or 8 years on and off and never shown any personal commitment himself.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Why not? He’s gone on record expecting players to buy into the ethos/culture yet he’s been manager here 7 or 8 years on and off and never shown any personal commitment himself.

Not once have players/ owners asked players to move to the area

Paul Commutes in everyday, and then travels all over watching games. I think your being harsh. He has his faults but this isnt one we can level at him

Quoted from MuddyWaters

I don’t think it is.

He’s been given a great opportunity by the owners together with a lot of reassurance, he could have shown a reciprocal level of commitment.

I'm sorry but this is absolute balderdash, criticise Hurst for the run we're on, selections, tactics etc. but where he chooses to live has got sold all to do with it. I have no idea about his personal situation, maybe he has kids who are settled in school or any other number of reasons he prefers not to move house. As long as he turns up every day and does his job he could live anywhere he chooses.

Quoted from Swansea_Mariner

I'm sorry but this is absolute balderdash, criticise Hurst for the run we're on, selections, tactics etc. but where he chooses to live has got sold all to do with it. I have no idea about his personal situation, maybe he has kids who are settled in school or any other number of reasons he prefers not to move house. As long as he turns up every day and does his job he could live anywhere he chooses.

I think denni266 mentioned that Hurst’s kids are GCSE / A-level age.

I’ve been trying to find the right house for 3 years and, like our forward line, the lack of decent supply at the moment doesn’t make it easy.

I know our current form is bad, but I still think we'll make the play-offs. Enough quality in the squad when confidence and key players return. One or two added in January will help too.

If we had started the season with a few defeats and then had a run of wins, the perception of our current position would be different.  The actual league position would be the same.

The Board said that Hurst would be here in the long term.  Maybe an unwise and naive comment from new owners.

3 of us had a chat after the game,  we wanted Hurst to stay as manager this season.  Strengthen in Jan and the summer.  (Funds are still invested in players not playing). Probably end up in the lottery of the playoffs this season.

Next season we would be better.  Like Chesterfield, improve the squad.  No expensive striker but Hurst has found diamonds before.

McAtee has been about half the team.  When he is back we should improve. The risk to Hurst staying is the pressure from fans if we fall and remain in the lower half of the league.  That would be toxic.

Quoted from TownSNAFU5

If we had started the season with a few defeats and then had a run of wins, the perception of our current position would be different.  The actual league position would be the same.

.

True, but the direct of travel would be entirely different.

Quoted from grimsby pete

We need some quality signings in January then who knows where we will end up.

BUT

If they are the usual cheap options then we can forget going up this season.

We need to spend some money.

I think Pete hits the nail on the head here.

The new owners spent £1 million buying the club, but the first £500k loan repayment to Fenty has been paid by incoming transfer fees. The gate receipts have been much higher than expected and must be covering the running costs pretty well, and we have not splashed out serious cash on incoming transfers.

I don't really see the point of spending a million on a club and then not investing in quality players to make the club serious promotion contenders.

The existing squad is better than what we have had in recent years, but It is clear that we need improvements in key areas. So unless the new owners want us just to bumble along as we have been doing for the last two months they must invest. Imagine how different things would be now if we had pushed the boat out to buy Tshimanga. It was certainly not impossible.

So we need some serious investment in January. Bringing in a couple of quality players to add to what we already have would make all the difference to our prospects.    

I am wondering where do we go from here, too many defeats and nothing much to hang on to. Our new owners are running true to form, as I remember attending a dinner when George Kerr, the then manager, was the speaker. His words were something like ' I can never understand how successful business people buy into a football club costing £1,000s ( in those days) and then run it like a hobby' Not the exact words but you get my drift. It doesn't half remind me of  JS & AP who say they are not football people. If they are not football people, neither has our CEO experience of football, then how in hell are they going to be of use in turning our current situation around?

I was amazed at the statistic of Hurst 19 wins in 100 games and let's not forget 8 of them came this season. It's not the sort of stat you want to read now things have gone wrong. I have supported Hurst since his return but find his selection today bizarre, what I refer to is the subs bench of attacking options. LJL is not the player he was, his last outing was poor and he cannot shoot for toffee, Scannell who hasn't played for months and Mag-Drew who is not a centre forward. What sort of attacking options were these players supposed to be, Adlard and Essel would have been better. Yes, they are young but should be able to be put on as last 20 min subs if need be.

We then have his reluctance to spend any money at all. He seems entrenched in a Fenty mindset of spending nothing and expecting league class players. £250K for a striker on £2/3k per week is ridiculous but somewhere along the line he has to splash the cash to keep his job, so a victory over Kings Lynn is a must or he has to go. 19 games, plus preseason and he hasn't signed a No 9 says it all.

We have players out, for various reasons, but Chesterfield had 11 out today and according to reports were quicker to the ball than ours. So it would appear our new fitness regime is useless. Coming into a game like today's players should be motivated to keep their place in the team selection and not just turn up to fill a gap. Reports say they put in a good shift but was it good enough? We were the home team, not the away team and produced 2 goal chances. I not saying they failed to perform but the performance was not good enough, again. A defeat is a defeat and I fail to see how the dressing room can be upbeat about anything.

I am usually known for my optimistic positive enthusiasm for wins but even for me, that is wearing thin. At the minute the only optimism is we won't be relegated, and I hope for a positive new year.

Bit of perspective. Yes, we need to strengthen in jan, and we all know where. But calling for the manager's head is stupid, I mean come on! whos going to replace him? then how much time will they take to build their team? In my opinion, it would be the most counterproductive thing we could do.

Also, only 4 teams in the league have won more games than us, only 6 have scored more goals than us, only 6 have a better goal difference than us. We have won the same amount of games in our first 19 this season as we did in all 46 last season.

Let us not panic. Get behind the team and manager and see what happens in Jan.

Quoted from NorthLondonMariner

Bit of perspective. Yes, we need to strengthen in jan, and we all know where. But calling for the manager's head is stupid, I mean come on! whos going to replace him? then how much time will they take to build their team? In my opinion, it would be the most counterproductive thing we could do.

Also, only 4 teams in the league have won more games than us, only 6 have scored more goals than us, only 6 have a better goal difference than us. We have won the same amount of games in our first 19 this season as we did in all 46 last season.

Let us not panic. Get behind the team and manager and see what happens in Jan.

If you accept the stats, what about the direction of travel? Downhill very rapidly.

And the negative selection? We were top of the league and scoring for fun 6 weeks ago and yesterday we set up hoping for a 0-0.

Something must have happened. The change is palpable and it seems that this season is almost done already. I’m happy to be proved wrong.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

If you accept the stats, what about the direction of travel? Downhill very rapidly.

And the negative selection? We were top of the league and scoring for fun 6 weeks ago and yesterday we set up hoping for a 0-0.

Something must have happened. The change is palpable and it seems that this season is almost done already. I’m happy to be proved wrong.

1. Yes that needs to change, we have 25 games and a transfer window to do it. We are not in the bottom 3rd of the table,  It's certainly not panic stations yet.
2. A lot of our better players injured or suspended? Again something we need to address in Jan.
3. Maybe something has happened? We will never know. But to say that the season is almost done already? Realy? We are not even halfway through and have a transfer window to play with to.

Quoted from Germo66

Hurst has to shoulder the blame, I'd give him two more games to sort it out. Plenty of effort from the players just poor tactics today

Are you a professional football manager?

Quoted from 123614

Are you a professional football manager?

I’m not a gourmet chef.

But I know a poor meal when I’m served one !!

I'll admit that it's looking serious atm, but we're not getting tonked, it could easily go our way with the right transfer window in January.
For those that want a manager change, it's far too early for that, we don't want to go the Big not, Hollow way do we? At least the start of the season showed more than promise, it could start again.Dont panic

Quoted from MuddyWaters

If you accept the stats, what about the direction of travel? Downhill very rapidly.

And the negative selection? We were top of the league and scoring for fun 6 weeks ago and yesterday we set up hoping for a 0-0.

Something must have happened. The change is palpable and it seems that this season is almost done already. I’m happy to be proved wrong.

The trouble is that if Hurst had set us up to go for an all out attacking performance and we'd been mullered this board would have been equally as angry (and in some cases the same people.) In the real world Hurst didn't have available to him the players to put in that level of attacking performance for a variety of reasons. I and many others would have taken a 0-0 draw yesterday to "stop the rot".

I guess my view is that if we where to change the manager would it enable us to finish top of the league and get automatic promotion, I doubt it to be honest as the quality in the squad does not run deep enough and that is one of the reasons that we're in in this bad run.

The technical quality is not there and in the case of a few of the players neither is the ability to sustain a good level of performance week in week out. I don't think it's an attitude or application issue it's juts they're not at the level that you need to win the league.

Would a new manager give us a guaranteed play off place? Maybe but looking at the level of spending and building the 10 or so clubs around us who probably quite rightly so believe they're contenders have been doing that's not a given either. It's the same answer in my mind for Paul Hurst.

The question is would a new manager get us back in the EFL quicker? Again I'm not sure you can establish that but constant change is not a good thing, look down the A180 you've got a perfect example.

From what I've seen of our opponents this season if we want to get up in the foreseeable future we need to spend more money on the team and the wider squad as this is how you get better players, which is the same story at every level of team sport where participants get paid.  

Regardless of who the manager is the current squad is not at a level to expect us to win the league or in my view be potential play off winners. Personally I don't think throwing £250K plus £3K a week type spending is the right thing to do now especially in a world where we could (I hope not) end up playing behind closed doors again.

All I expected from the new owners was to come in and breathe a bit of positivity into the club, put some fresh ideas in flight and make a start on the massive task of building some infrastructure back in, so far so good in my view. Alongside this I expected them to have a long term strategy which I would assume includes pay off Fenty then seek some more serious investors as my believe is you can't do one without the other, once this is done I'd expect more spending on players.

JS and AP will have a very clear idea of what success looks like this season, if the manager achieves that then simple he'll be here next season never mind next month. Paul Hurst knows the current run isn't good enough is he the man to halt the slide? Well we'll see, personally I think the defeats will stop if he gets his best 11 out for a week or two that generally happens regardless.

The final bit is that I think (and it's just my view) in the mind of the owners getting in the play off's will be success up until yesterday I was confident of that but I'm not sure now, personally if we don't make the play off's then calling for changing the manager is the right question but until we get to that stage I'm confident of one thing and that is Paul Hurst will be going nowhere.            

Goodness me, I’m a little speechless reading all the rubbish on here……was I at a different game yesterday? We were certainly the better team, a team that was clearly playing for their manager and supporters who were not second best to the ball as some have said. Mcatee in yesterday’s squad and we would have won…..don’t panic and have patience as we are still in a good position with plenty to play for. Ffs even JT on the radio saw that we deserved more yesterday……UTM!

Quoted from barralad

The trouble is that if Hurst had set us up to go for an all out attacking performance and we'd been mullered this board would have been equally as angry (and in some cases the same people.) In the real world Hurst didn't have available to him the players to put in that level of attacking performance for a variety of reasons. I and many others would have taken a 0-0 draw yesterday to "stop the rot".

Agree with this overall my frustration is that why bring on LJL for Taylor? A like for like change achieved nothing when the mid field where running around like headless chickens and the CB's bypassing them and trying to hoof it long to the two up front. We had a couple of players who have skill on the bench and sticking them on for the last 15 mins maybe just maybe would have given Chesterfield something to think about. The manager set the players up to stop Chesterfield scoring and they failed to do that, does the blame sit with the manager or the players? Personally I think the latter should take a bit of accountability for the goal as we didn't stop their danger man getting to the ball which had to be the first objective at any set piece.  

Hurst has hardly played 2 proper strikers together since Bogle and Amond.

If people believe the nonsense of ‘they’re not playing for the manager’ then they must’ve watched yesterdays game with their eyes closed and with the intent to stick to their own anti Hurst narrative.

If we’d gone all out attack and got twatted, he’d have been lambasted, probably by those moaning that he went defensive and tried to stop the rot. It was lose lose in some respects.

A plethora of things have happened at once, just be thankful we did fly out the blocks and we did put those poorer teams to bed and rack up some points.

Changing the manager is unlikely to see us win the league and will likely see us finish in a similar position to what we will with hurst…it’s no coincidence that in the last 20 years the only success and on pitch improvements have come when we didn’t keep chopping and changing the manager, that manager then left because of incompetent ownership and here we find ourselves, multiple incompetent managers later…

I know people are precious Becauee he dared call our fans and they’re beyond offended that he cupped his ear but in truth, of all the man babies cryarsing about Hurst, none can provide a credible or logical solution…

It’s a excrement run, we’re still only 7 from top but it’s a excrement run but nobody is denying that but the way some are shooting their load to chastise Hurst or the side is tiresome…

Quoted from HertsGTFC

Agree with this overall my frustration is that why bring on LJL for Taylor? A like for like change achieved nothing when the mid field where running around like headless chickens and the CB's bypassing them and trying to hoof it long to the two up front. We had a couple of players who have skill on the bench and sticking them on for the last 15 mins maybe just maybe would have given Chesterfield something to think about. The manager set the players up to stop Chesterfield scoring and they failed to do that, does the blame sit with the manager or the players? Personally I think the latter should take a bit of accountability for the goal as we didn't stop their danger man getting to the ball which had to be the first objective at any set piece.  

I am not in the anti Hurst brigade but I thought that we completely lacked guile and quality yesterday and did not look like scoring. Nobody could beat a man and for me it was like watching paint dry with the loss having an air of inevitability. We looked like a team of cloggers , big lads doing their best. Bell was the the only real quality and he is not our player. I would give PH a few more games as too early to pull the trigger but I have lost all confidence in him and in truth not really forgiven how abysmal he was last season.
Not bothered about next week but would give him 4 more games. No wins in that run and no manager survives a run like that
utm

Not sure if this was posted.

If we had started the season with a few defeats and then had a run of wins, the perception of our current position would be different.  The actual league position would be the same.

The Board said that Hurst would be here in the long term.  Maybe an unwise and naive comment from new owners.

3 of us had a chat after the game,  we wanted Hurst to stay as manager this season.  Strengthen in Jan and the summer.  (Funds are still invested in players not playing). Probably end up in the lottery of the playoffs this season.

Next season we would be better.  Like Chesterfield, improve the squad.  No expensive striker but Hurst has found diamonds before.

McAtee has been about half the team.  When he is back we should improve. The risk to Hurst staying is the pressure from fans if we fall and remain in the lower half of the league.  That would be toxic.

Quoted from golfer

Hurst has hardly played 2 proper strikers together since Bogle and Amond.

He started Green and Jackson v Port Vale last season  

Quoted from NorthLondonMariner

Bit of perspective. Yes, we need to strengthen in jan, and we all know where. But calling for the manager's head is stupid, I mean come on! whos going to replace him? then how much time will they take to build their team? In my opinion, it would be the most counterproductive thing we could do.

Also, only 4 teams in the league have won more games than us, only 6 have scored more goals than us, only 6 have a better goal difference than us. We have won the same amount of games in our first 19 this season as we did in all 46 last season.

Let us not panic. Get behind the team and manager and see what happens in Jan.

Also, only 4 teams in the league have won more games than us, only 6 have scored more goals than us, only 6 have a better goal difference than us. We have won the same amount of games in our first 19 this season as we did in all 46 last season.


So basically from those figures we expect to finish 5/6 and in the lottery of the playoffs. For some that may be ok but in this league I would expect to be finishing 1/3.

Quoted from chaos33

Ooh look at you, eager to dive in Denni.
Understand the original post - statistically really concerning, but, as many people know from their jobs - statistics are nothing without narrative and context. Fully respect people who say they think Hurst should go, but feel that the context and the narrative tell you more than the bare stats quoted above. Today was very nearly a draw, as was Notts county and Dagenham and most of the other defeats were very fine margins. Injuries/illness and suspensions have been and are now, a real issue.

We are without some key players and there was a commitment and effort visible today that would, personally, make me want to persevere as I feel that this is a very competitive squad and Hurst a very good manager. Little point in going all ‘daggers drawn’ and dramatic and alarmist in my view. I’d prefer to ride this out and back the club even though I acknowledge that the bare stats/results would put any manager under pressure and the league position and form is very much a disappointment and significantly below the standard we have set in early season and what we should rightly be striving for/expect.

Who was it said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics"?

Civvy, you haven’t been to the North Pole but you know that is very cold there.  Similar to the top of the UpperFindus in winter,

Six of the seven recent defeats have been by a single goal. It's not as if we are getting thumped each time. If we had a player like Tshimanga we would probably have salvaged a few draws maybe even a couple of wins from those games.

We have known all season that we needed a decent striker. It is imperative that we get one in January.

Quoted from RonMariner

Six of the seven recent defeats have been by a single goal. It's not as if we are getting thumped each time. If we had a player like Tshimanga we would probably have salvaged a few draws maybe even a couple of wins from those games.

We have known all season that we needed a decent striker. It is imperative that we get one in January.

By which time it will be way too late. Especially as we could have signed Tshimanga.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

By which time it will be way too late. Especially as we could have signed Tshimanga.

Nothing we can do about that now.

Quoted from RonMariner

Nothing we can do about that now.

Absolutely agree, but no one can say we didn’t have the opportunity. Having said that, Hurst may have turned him into a defensive midfielder by now 😉

Quoted from MuddyWaters

Absolutely agree, but no one can say we didn’t have the opportunity. Having said that, Hurst may have turned him into a defensive midfielder by now 😉

Yes, we should have gone all out to sign him. He was clearly a fabulous goal scorer. As soon as I heard Chesterfield had signed him I thought it was terrible news for us. I wonder how many points his goals have earned for them, including three yesterday.

When is the last time we splashed out big money on a player?  We did in 1998 and look at the result. Two Wembley wins.

You can't win titles on the cheap. Will we never learn?

Quoted from RonMariner

As soon as I heard Chesterfield had signed him I thought it was terrible news for us. I wonder how many points his goals have earned for them, including three yesterday.

18 points won just thanks to his goals. 5 wins, 3 draws.

Amazing really.

TBF his goal only won 2 pts, they already had 1

Quoted from RonMariner

Yes, we should have gone all out to sign him. He was clearly a fabulous goal scorer. As soon as I heard Chesterfield had signed him I thought it was terrible news for us. I wonder how many points his goals have earned for them, including three yesterday.

When is the last time we splashed out big money on a player?  We did in 1998 and look at the result. Two Wembley wins.

You can't win titles on the cheap. Will we never learn?

In 1997 we had also just received £1.5m for Oster and about £700k I think it was for Mendonca.

In the summer we got a decent sum for Pollock and Grist but it went straight to the bank of Fenty.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

In 1997 we had also just received £1.5m for Oster and about £700k I think it was for Mendonca.

In the summer we got a decent sum for Pollock and Grist but it went straight to the bank of Fenty.

You don’t want us to pay Fenty off as quickly as possible?

We’ve also had several above budget attendances according to Barralad.

The quicker we get that albatross off our back the better,  the transfer fees shorten the timeline by a whole year so that's just one more season after this and then it adios forever!

Quoted from MuddyWaters

You don’t want us to pay Fenty off as quickly as possible?

We’ve also had several above budget attendances according to Barralad.

I was stating why we were able to splash the cash in 1997.

Quoted from jamesgtfc

I was stating why we were able to splash the cash in 1997.

We were a league club in 1997 and a fair bit has happened since.

Quoted from MuddyWaters

We were a league club in 1997 and a fair bit has happened since.

My comment was in reply to this:

Quoted from RonMariner

When is the last time we splashed out big money on a player?  We did in 1998 and look at the result. Two Wembley wins.

There was a reason we spent a lot of money in 1997 and that was because of player sales. Unfortunately Mr Fenty insisted that all player sales belong to him until he's paid off.

If we didn't have Fenty to pay off then I'm sure a good portion of that money would have gone into the playing budget, like it did in 1997.