Thoughts on jolleys future?

Having been today listening to people's comments at the game and then reading a few comments on here got me thinking what the majority are thinking on the future of the manager?

Where's the 'We should never have employed him' option?

My thoughts are that they give out UEFA coaching badges fee in a box of Weetabix if today’s tactical master class is anything to go by.

He has had a good go at it. He has his own team (not too bad on paper) but is going backwards. I have no idea what our first team is, neither has he.

We are unbelievably negative; passing backwards and sideways, then backwards again before walloping it up the field to no effect whatsoever.

He is not soley to blame, but we won't be getting rid of the board anytime soon so the manager has to take the can. Time to go, well before the transfer window to allow a new manager a chance to bring in one or two that will shake things up.

Quoted from Ipswin

Where's the 'We should never have employed him' option?

If we hadn't we could well have been looking forward to a trip to Maidenhead next week. Did a great job when he first took over but is certainly stagnating now,

Give Jolley until the end of the year and if we are in the bottom three by then let him go.

I think the big thing for me is that he has been unable to produce a team playing the football he talked about. Last season was all about wanting us to play fast, energetic and attacking football. Still waiting for the first of those three to arrive let alone all three a season and a half later...

Stabilised the club and made a few improvements to some extent overall BUT the football is nothing short of dire and the improvement of between were we are now and when he arrived isnt good enough after a good few seasons to suggest he is going to do anything here other than bore us to death with his football and keep us up.

I just want to see some football and entertainment for my 20 quid not be looking for the ball towards the upper for 90 minutes.

I really don’t understand it. There is no evidence of any sort of management in our play. Watch us, and the walloping, hope for the best style is what you’d expect if we didn’t have anyone in charge. He is top qualified, and articulate but there’s absolutely no evidence of any sort of method in our play. It’s crazy. I think, unless there is a major turn around in the next couple of games, he should be gone. If you look at the stats, we are making no progress whatsoever, and we are dire to watch. I like Jolley but he has made a total mess of it.

Quoted from chaos33

I really don’t understand it. There is no evidence of any sort of management in our play. Watch us, and the walloping, hope for the best style is what you’d expect if we didn’t have anyone in charge. He is top qualified, and articulate but there’s absolutely no evidence of any sort of method in our play. It’s crazy. I think, unless there is a major turn around in the next couple of games, he should be gone. If you look at the stats, we are making no progress whatsoever, and we are dire to watch. I like Jolley but he has made a total mess of it.

Do you know my analogy of Jolley...he's a morph of Bignott and Slade.... Bignott could see a player, but tactically frigging useless and Slade just knew one way...smash it upfield and hope to pick up the pieces. ..all sounds too familiar to me right now..

I don't  reckon he's going anywhere soon as long as we bumble along picking up the odd win here and there.  He works to a budget and I reckon that and avoid relegation is the extent of the ambition of this club under present ownership.

Just six turgid more season to go and then we can be rid, debt free start again with a clean slate.

Sack manager
Look for decent manager who will work for peanuts
Look for a decent manager who won't laugh at Cheapside
Pick from managers who will be desperate enough for a job to move to Grimsby
Rely on a board without much football knowledge to choose a manager
New manager given "competitive" budget
Prospective players shown round BP and the desperate ones pretend to be impressed, the not so desperate sign for someone else
Avoid the Conference
Avoid the Conference
Sack manager
Repeat process until we drop into the Conference again

Whether it's Jolley's turn for the sack or not.. will anything ever really change? There's clear reasons why we've only finished above halfway in the fourth tier only once in the past seventeen years or been relegated and all of those reasons can't be blamed on the thirteen managers in this fallow period, however poor they've been.. it goes a lot deeper than that..

Quoted from Bigdog

Sack manager
Look for decent manager who will work for peanuts
Look for a decent manager who won't laugh at Cheapside
Pick from managers who will be desperate enough for a job to move to Grimsby
Rely on a board without much football knowledge to choose a manager
New manager given "competitive" budget
Prospective players shown round BP and the desperate ones pretend to be impressed, the not so desperate sign for someone else
Avoid the Conference
Avoid the Conference
Sack manager
Repeat process until we drop into the Conference again

Whether it's Jolley's turn for the sack or not.. will anything ever really change? There's clear reasons why we've only finished above halfway in the fourth tier only once in the past seventeen years or been relegated and all of those reasons can't be blamed on the thirteen managers in this fallow period.. it goes a lot deeper than that..

But anyone with a semblance of common sense knows that Bigdog. The snowflakes and the Fenty family will tell us that ‘without John there would be no GTFC’ and round in circles we go again.

We’ve now got a second trust director! Whoopie doo! That’s two directors whose votes will count for fuckall. More of the same - no investment, no buyer, no success and fuckthefans. Welcome to 17 years of Custodian Fenty.

I’m going to get shot down for this but intercourse it, if so I’ll try and find a support group for people who’ve been red crossed on a league two football forum.

I’m as drunk off as anyone. But today’s selection clearly wasn’t his first. Macca and Elliott not available. Macca is a big loss obviously. Elliott too, given Hendrie is crocked. Surprised to see Wright omitted, but I bet he’ll be back for the next league game.

Not sure what anyone else would have done differently. The Cardwell substitution maybe, but who knows what Ogbu is like atm.

If you want a benchmark, check out Scunny’s response to their result today.

Sacking more often than not seals relegation. Only one spot this year and it would be stupid to send us into a spiral now. Without a doubt we need a couple of players in January. And if we’re shite at the end of the season, that’s the time to take stock and make a considered decision.

For what it's worth..For purely footballing reasons, I think it's time for another manager to have a go.

Potential of the squad > Jolley's ability

The only thing is.. with league gates already down to 3.5k home fans only two and a half months into the season.. where's the money going to come from to tempt someone decent? What decent manager is going to put his career on the line with the proposition of tempting players to BP and Cheapside with a "competitive" budget along with the threat of dropping into the Conference? And do we trust the board to get it right?!!

Wasn't so popular saying the club is on life support in another thread.. but start asking questions like this if Jolley is sent packing, and those that disagreed with me should realise exactly where we are as a club..

Jolley won't get sacked though. As long as he keeps us in this division and JF continues getting his money back to the tune of 200/250k per annum, nothing is going to change. Not even when JF is finally paid off to the point where he'll have invested exactly jack shite to be in control for twenty years.. other than his ahem "expertise"..

Quoted from marinerdazza

I’m going to get shot down for this but intercourse it, if so I’ll try and find a support group for people who’ve been red crossed on a league two football forum.

I’m as drunk off as anyone. But today’s selection clearly wasn’t his first. Macca and Elliott not available. Macca is a big loss obviously. Elliott too, given Hendrie is crocked. Surprised to see Wright omitted, but I bet he’ll be back for the next league game.

Not sure what anyone else would have done differently. The Cardwell substitution maybe, but who knows what Ogbu is like atm.

If you want a benchmark, check out Scunny’s response to their result today.

Sacking more often than not seals relegation. Only one spot this year and it would be stupid to send us into a spiral now. Without a doubt we need a couple of players in January. And if we’re shite at the end of the season, that’s the time to take stock and make a considered decision.

Today was a shower of shite that had fuckall to do with Russell and Pollock replacing Macca and Hewitt. Wright hasn’t even trained yet and, much as I like Max, basing our attacking threat on a kid with less than a handful of first team starts appears a little desperate.

The lack of progress isn’t just worrying, it’s beyond a joke.

I'm as frustrated as the next Town fan over our lack of progress. I'm a staunch supporter of Jolley and I continue to believe that sacking him now will solve nothing.

I mean, what calibre of manager is out there who will at least guarantee us fast, energetic, attacking football? They might be able to deliver it, but what if we lose 4-3 every week, or if he starts signing 33-year-old journeymen and drop players like Pollock?

No one knows what the future holds but looking back at general trends you have to say that the only managerial appointment Fenty and the board got right - and it took some patience - was Hurst. Even then, the actual appointment was Scott & Hurst, and they were third choice, and we didn't play by the rules to get them, either.

I felt that Jolley was the right sort of appointment at the time, and he did a great job in keeping us up. I don't know what happened during his first summer but we began last season with a very weak squad, and we ended the season with an even weaker squad.

This season's squad looked so much stronger - and it showed too, in August. Since then, Exeter apart, it's been pretty awful. I'm not sure what that's down to.

Jolley needs to think back to what he did, and how he managed the situation, when he took over from Slade. Quality was low; morale was rock bottom. He got the team playing and we won four of our last five to stay up.

I think managers just lose their minds sometimes. They lose sight of the core principles they came in with. We looked a great side when we beat Notts County to stay up. We looked even better at Forest Green when Hooper got that hat-trick (albeit in a dead rubber). At times, we looked great last season, and tactically Jolley played the (almost) perfect game at Palace.

What none of us can work out is why Jolley keeps changing things, and looking so uncertain in his squad selection, tactics and formation. This is his squad and his to work with. He can have no excuses there.

I think a succession of GTFC managers keep making the same mistake. They spend the whole summer recruiting players for a certain formation and a certain style, and when that fails they end up chopping, changing and shoehorning players here there and everywhere, almost in panic, so we lose our identity, lose our focus and the whole thing becomes messy.

Jolley needs to look at what he's got. Top keeper for this division. Hendrie and Gibson are more than capable at this level. Pollock is an outstanding talent and between the other centre backs we have enough quality in defence to be tighter than we are.

Hess is a great holding midfielder. Clifton and Whitehouse will get around the pitch. Robson and Cook have attacking intent, and Wright could be a real star at this level. Hanson is proven at this level. Green too. Ogbu? Jury's out. But essentially we have a very good squad for this league when everyone's fit.

Just play your best players in their best positions. Get ourselves out of this hole. I don't think a new manager will solve anything because they'll look at this squad and say it's not theirs, and there'll be wholesale changes once again in the summer when, I believe (as I've already explained) we have a more than capable squad to push for the play-offs.

Quoted from RichMariner

I'm as frustrated as the next Town fan over our lack of progress. I'm a staunch supporter of Jolley and I continue to believe that sacking him now will solve nothing.

I mean, what calibre of manager is out there who will at least guarantee us fast, energetic, attacking football? They might be able to deliver it, but what if we lose 4-3 every week, or if he starts signing 33-year-old journeymen and drop players like Pollock?

No one knows what the future holds but looking back at general trends you have to say that the only managerial appointment Fenty and the board got right - and it took some patience - was Hurst. Even then, the actual appointment was Scott & Hurst, and they were third choice, and we didn't play by the rules to get them, either.

I felt that Jolley was the right sort of appointment at the time, and he did a great job in keeping us up. I don't know what happened during his first summer but we began last season with a very weak squad, and we ended the season with an even weaker squad.

This season's squad looked so much stronger - and it showed too, in August. Since then, Exeter apart, it's been pretty awful. I'm not sure what that's down to.

Jolley needs to think back to what he did, and how he managed the situation, when he took over from Slade. Quality was low; morale was rock bottom. He got the team playing and we won four of our last five to stay up.

I think managers just lose their minds sometimes. They lose sight of the core principles they came in with. We looked a great side when we beat Notts County to stay up. We looked even better at Forest Green when Hooper got that hat-trick (albeit in a dead rubber). At times, we looked great last season, and tactically Jolley played the (almost) perfect game at Palace.

What none of us can work out is why Jolley keeps changing things, and looking so uncertain in his squad selection, tactics and formation. This is his squad and his to work with. He can have no excuses there.

I think a succession of GTFC managers keep making the same mistake. They spend the whole summer recruiting players for a certain formation and a certain style, and when that fails they end up chopping, changing and shoehorning players here there and everywhere, almost in panic, so we lose our identity, lose our focus and the whole thing becomes messy.

Jolley needs to look at what he's got. Top keeper for this division. Hendrie and Gibson are more than capable at this level. Pollock is an outstanding talent and between the other centre backs we have enough quality in defence to be tighter than we are.

Hess is a great holding midfielder. Clifton and Whitehouse will get around the pitch. Robson and Cook have attacking intent, and Wright could be a real star at this level. Hanson is proven at this level. Green too. Ogbu? Jury's out. But essentially we have a very good squad for this league when everyone's fit.

Just play your best players in their best positions. Get ourselves out of this hole. I don't think a new manager will solve anything because they'll look at this squad and say it's not theirs, and there'll be wholesale changes once again in the summer when, I believe (as I've already explained) we have a more than capable squad to push for the play-offs.

You’re wasting your time. The villagers have lit their torches. Again.

Recruited quite well on paper this summer but still lacking that creative type, but he can't seem to settle on a game plan that plays to their strengths. Most performances I've seen this season have been shocking and lacked anything resembling attacking threat. But we've also lost the defensive solidity of last season.

Does he have the answers or is he just a coach who has blagged his way into a management job?

I'd personally get rid of Jolley now. We started well I remember watching us against Bradford and thinking if this is how we are going to play then where in for a good season. Now we look completely lost. I'd go for Paul Tisdale but I think he probably wouldn't come here.
Since we've been back in league 2 one thing baffles me that is we seemed to have better players while we where in the conforence than we have had in the last few seasons.

I'll ask a question.

Did Jolley really keep us in the league in those last 10 games or was it the Swiss cheese model where all the holes lined up?

Teams around us floundered, whilst we kept getting lucky with penalties. We dint play good football, we didn't score countless goals from open play....

So maybe, just maybe, rather than his magical managerial touch it was pure and simply luck!...

In the same way the Exeter win cane about by stumbling upon a team that played out if necessity, again I point to luck not managerial brilliance.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

I'll ask a question.

Did Jolley really keep us in the league in those last 10 games or was it the Swiss cheese model where all the holes lined up?

Teams around us floundered, whilst we kept getting lucky with penalties. We dint play good football, we didn't score countless goals from open play....

So maybe, just maybe, rather than his magical managerial touch it was pure and simply luck!...

In the same way the Exeter win cane about by stumbling upon a team that played out if necessity, again I point to luck not managerial brilliance.

I presume you pointed this out the season before last when we stayed up.

Quoted from marinerdazza

I’m going to get shot down for this but intercourse it, if so I’ll try and find a support group for people who’ve been red crossed on a league two football forum.

I’m as drunk off as anyone. But today’s selection clearly wasn’t his first. Macca and Elliott not available. Macca is a big loss obviously. Elliott too, given Hendrie is crocked.

The idea that the only/best option with the players available was to play Cook at right wing-back is laughable. If anything it perfectly encapsulates Jolley’s major flaw. He chooses a system and then fits the players he has in around that even if it means lots of square pegs in round holes. Another example is how he inexplicably decided to spend all last pre-season practising 352 with a squad that didn’t have anyone capable of playing left wing-back.

The best managers make a team so that it’s greater than the sum of its parts. They play to the strengths of their players and try to minimise their weaknesses as a team through the formation/tactics they employ. Ironically this is is exactly what he did when he kept us up and is why I thought he would do well for us. Sadly, he hasn’t done it since. I think Jolley thinks he’s smarter than he actually is when it comes to tactics and unfortunately doesn’t seem to have learnt anything from the numerous lessons he’s had in 18 months. And sadly, little sign of progress as a manager and definitely not getting the most out of this squad so you have to question why we should give him any longer.

Quoted from KingstonMariner

I presume you pointed this out the season before last when we stayed up.

As it happens, yes I did...

What a awful scrappy game of football , the die hards who go every week need medals if that’s what’s being dished up regularly. I think the pressure will mount on MJ and I can see him off loaded turn of the year.

Quoted from Ipswin

Where's the 'We should never have employed him' option?

Irrelevant, just like you.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Do you know my analogy of Jolley...he's a morph of Bignott and Slade.... Bignott could see a player, but tactically frigging useless and Slade just knew one way...smash it upfield and hope to pick up the pieces. ..all sounds too familiar to me right now..

I thought Bigmott was a good appointment. Well I was wrong but you can't say he could see a player. What level are all his signings playing at? Slade had even one way, I don't think.

Quoted from mariner91

The idea that the only/best option with the players available was to play Cook at right wing-back is laughable. If anything it perfectly encapsulates Jolley’s major flaw. He chooses a system and then fits the players he has in around that even if it means lots of square pegs in round holes. Another example is how he inexplicably decided to spend all last pre-season practising 352 with a squad that didn’t have anyone capable of playing left wing-back.

The best managers make a team so that it’s greater than the sum of its parts. They play to the strengths of their players and try to minimise their weaknesses as a team through the formation/tactics they employ. Ironically this is is exactly what he did when he kept us up and is why I thought he would do well for us. Sadly, he hasn’t done it since. I think Jolley thinks he’s smarter than he actually is when it comes to tactics and unfortunately doesn’t seem to have learnt anything from the numerous lessons he’s had in 18 months. And sadly, little sign of progress as a manager and definitely not getting the most out of this squad so you have to question why we should give him any longer.

If you listen to is RH interview he claimed Pollock was playing RB I’m no tactician but to me it looked like 3 at the back.

The personnel in the squad  yesterday could have easily gone 4-3-3 and considering we where at home you should be more offensive than your visitors.

I think the squad is o.k for this level but I’m not convinced the players are adaptable enough to fit into an ever changing system.

Quoted from 140067

I thought Bigmott was a good appointment. Well I was wrong but you can't say he could see a player. What level are all his signings playing at? Slade had even one way, I don't think.

What level are all of the players we've signed since returning to the EFL? From memory only one permanent signing is playing at a higher level, Danny Andrew. That's a pretty damning indictment that can't be laid at one manager's door..

Tell him to read the Fishy for some sensible tips ' cos I reckon he must be a very "stubborn " man

Quoted from 140067

I thought Bigmott was a good appointment. Well I was wrong but you can't say he could see a player. What level are all his signings playing at? Slade had even one way, I don't think.

Well I thought we were playing 4-1-3-2 yesterday with Pollock & Gibson full back and Hess playing in front of the centre backs. I would have little problem with this if the 3 and the 2 were any good but Hanson, Robson, Cook and particularly Whitehouse and Green weren't yesterday. Would have liked to have seen Vernam & Ogbu in their places.

Think robson is very overrated by some of our fanbase

Quoted from Bigdog

What level are all of the players we've signed since returning to the EFL? From memory only one permanent signing is playing at a higher level, Danny Andrew. That's a pretty damning indictment that can't be laid at one manager's door..

Can't argue with that. The quote was that Bignott could see a player. I didn't agree with that. Gunning .......wait till you see him.

Quoted from 140067

Can't argue with that. The quote was that Bignott could see a player. I didn't agree with that. Gunning .......wait till you see him.

Osbourne, had the ability to play higher but didn't have mental acumen for it.
Who signed Dean Henderson?...leave that one with you.
Who brought Ogle on as a player before selling to town?
Yusuf...better than Cardwell..
......can't be bothered to go through the full list ..

Hurst signed Henderson

Quoted from Hagrid

Hurst signed Henderson

If you're right I'll stand corrected but I thought Bignott signed him, then dropped Macca at which point Macca threw his toys out the pram and put in a transfer request..

We’re in a rut at the moment, and I’m not enjoying it (the postponements haven’t helped). But ignoring the end of the season when he first came in and it’s only his second season proper. It’s an absolute no for sacking him at the moment.

Feel like we were at our best under him around December last year. Vernam before he got injured and Pringle, Wes Thomas, Clifton in form. A decent utility man in Mitch Rose who could do an OK job in filling in anywhere asked of him.

Not saying any of these were world beaters...but they’ve all left or gone off the boil.

Jolley has done the recruitment and he needs to sort a decent game plan to justify those decisions. On paper we look to have a better squad, but I’m not sure that that’s the reality!

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

If you're right I'll stand corrected but I thought Bignott signed him, then dropped Macca at which point Macca threw his toys out the pram and put in a transfer request..

Hurst signed Henderson but never played him. Bignot played him.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Osbourne, had the ability to play higher but didn't have mental acumen for it.
Who signed Dean Henderson?...leave that one with you.
Who brought Ogle on as a player before selling to town?
Yusuf...better than Cardwell..
......can't be bothered to go through the full list ..

Henderson signed by Hurst, Bogle signed by Hurst.

Quoted from 140067

Henderson signed by Hurst, Bogle signed by Hurst.

The Bogle signing I know...but Bignott held him back a year at Solihull as he knew he wasn't ready for the step up....

So, as I've said, I stand corrected about the signing of Henderson but I stand by the fact it was Bignott that saw the potential in him....probably says more about Hurst imho...

Up until now I've been supportive of MJ and prepared to give him a chance.
He has many " plus points ". He is a young and ambitious manager. He is intelligent enough to identify a problem and find a way to correct it. He has some of the highest coaching qualifications available. He learnt his early trade as the Under 23 coach at Burnley - and these are not kids but mostly older than youth players who need guidance in tactics, positioning etc. He has experience of managing professional league football in Sweden.
His " negative points " are starting to show through, though. He gives the impression of approaching a lot of games like he is playing some type of Football Manager computer game. He can't seem to make his mind up about what format or playing style he intends to prefer.  He seems inclined to think that almost any player can fit any role. He doesn't seem to realise that we , as the fans and paying public, expect to see some kind of entertainment or end result in paying out hard earned money to watch our team perform.
For my personal approach I don't like the reliance he seems to put on loan players. They will be expected , by their parent clubs , to make a consistant contribution to our matchday playing squad but I feel this could be to the detriment of giving our permanent signings the opportunity to develop under match conditions. I also think some of his permanent signings are questionable. Green , for example, wasn't deemed good enough for Salford when the got promoted to the league so why would MJ think he was good enough for a League 2 team with aspirations for promotion?

Quoted from RichMariner

We looked a great side when we beat Notts County to stay up. Really? Great? We looked even better at Forest Green when Hooper got that hat-trick (albeit in a dead rubber). At times, we looked great last season, and tactically Jolley played the (almost) perfect game at Palace We defended valiantly nothing more. Palace at the time could not buy a goal at home and they actually started a centre forward who made Cardwell look like Gerd Muller.

What none of us can work out is why Jolley keeps changing things, and looking so uncertain in his squad selection, tactics and formation. This is his squad and his to work with. He can have no excuses there. I do 100% agree with this. When you think about it for a moment it is actually very alarming. How on earth can any manager be "uncertain in his squad selection, tactics and formation" it is what he is bloody paid to do. If he cannot even decide what is his best team he is not doing his job.

I really admire your optimism in your post and I really want Jolley to succeed...but I have to disagree on a couple of points in the above you mention (Bold). We all want Jolley to be a success but the longer he has been our manager the more it is becoming obvious he does not or cannot see where he is going wrong. For me his lack of signing wingers is almost criminal.

When it comes to player recruitment under Jolley I’ve noticed the following.

We have had 3 transfer windows under the guy and yet we have never signed young up and coming players from non league? Are we not looking there? We have seen many times over that players at that level can more than hold their own at this level and above.

We tend to look at exactly the same players everyone else looks at and for whatever reason tend to end up with the last picks.

3 transfer windows and he hasn’t signed an out and out winger. We have no width and this is never addressed. It’s very frustrating when we as fans can see the problem but this problem is never solved due to the stubbornness of manager.

Jolley said at the beginning of the season we are going for it this season,

He never said what  it  was though.

He says again and again we need to play on the front foot and play a high pressing game.

Yet all we can see is players all getting behind the ball and when we do win it or they give us the ball its just booted up the field in the direction of Hanson.

Its not working Michael start playing the players in their best position and practice what you preach.
You talk a good game but your words have no substance .
Going to a football match is supposed to be an enjoyable event but if you took your goggles off and read the fishy you will find out the natives are not happy and are bored with your tactics you are no better than Slade.

Use the little time you have left and prove you can do the job because if you don't managers who get the sack from Grimsby find it very hard to get another job in football.

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

As it happens, yes I did...

Never doubted you 😉

Quoted from Northbank Mariner

Osbourne, had the ability to play higher but didn't have mental acumen for it.
Who signed Dean Henderson?...leave that one with you.
Who brought Ogle on as a player before selling to town?
Yusuf...better than Cardwell..
......can't be bothered to go through the full list ..

Marcus Bigknob? Eye eye!

Quoted from KingstonMariner

Marcus Bigknob? Eye eye!

Flipping predictive text😂😂