In your opinion, the biggest problem at GTFC is?

Quoted from Marinerz93

Scunthorpe is smaller or not far off us population wise, and they are in the top 5 of league one, it's down to ambition, drive and determination, we on the other side have is abject failure and man who seems to alienate anybody with cash. People who believe we are small time club in a small town need to get out of their shed and look around at the smaller clubs doing far better than us.

That is exactly right. All this talk about being small, unfashionable, remote, etc, apply equally if not more so, to Scunny. However they have been out performing us for about 15 years now, have been in the championship a couple of times while we have been in free fall, and are strong contenders for promotion or playoff yet again while we are worried about dropping out of the league again.

Over this period they have had a number of different mangers, as we have, and scores of players have come and gone. But yet they have consistently managed to punch above their weight, just as we used to in the 1980's.  The obvious truth is that they are a well run club, with a board that have consistently made good management choices. They have also created an environment in which decent players will sign and stay, allowing the management to build and improve on a stable platform.  

Consider the decent players we have signed but lost. and I'm not talking about Bogle, who we clearly could not afford to keep, Magnay, Toto, Nolan, Amond, Pearson, John Lewis, Arnold etc, We lost those players to the likes of Hartlepool, Chesterfield and Newport. Hardly glamour  clubs, or giants of the game. It seems to me that as soon as a good player gets a chance to move out, most of them take it.  There is something about the way the club is run that drives players away. In any business staff retention is a telling indicator of the health of the organisation.

The public face that the club presents to the outside world is one of rank amateurism. I have no doubt that its the same behind the scenes too.   There is a saying in management consultancy 'The organisation is the response to the leadership'. Companies and football clubs are the reflection of their controllers.

We just do not give off signals of being an ambitious, go ahead club with a vision. As a player we are not a place to be if you can help it. So the first place that change has to occur is right at the top. Not necessarily a change of personnel, but a change of attitude. If the board can't make the right footballing decisions, then bring in someone who can.  And take their advice.  Make a statement of intent, set out where you want the club to go and the steps being made to get there,

Get the right person in overall charge of football affairs and the rest will follow, right management choices, right player choices, good staff retention, and this will translate to consistent success on the pitch. It's not impossible, smaller clubs than us have done it.        

Is Scunthorpe a good example? Isn't it just a club that has a Chairman with tons of cash, that he doesn't mind ploughing into the club? They run at a big loss every season and you can get the better managers and players if you throw enough money at it. Take away their Chairman, and with their gates, they would plummet like a stone.

Quoted from ginnywings

Is Scunthorpe a good example? Isn't it just a club that has a Chairman with tons of cash, that he doesn't mind ploughing into the club? They run at a big loss every season and you can get the better managers and players if you throw enough money at it. Take away their Chairman, and with their gates, they would plummet like a stone.

With plans to re-develop Glanford Park and their current league position, I suspect their 'custodian' will leave them in a better position than ours will us.

Quoted from ginnywings

Is Scunthorpe a good example? Isn't it just a club that has a Chairman with tons of cash, that he doesn't mind ploughing into the club? They run at a big loss every season and you can get the better managers and players if you throw enough money at it. Take away their Chairman, and with their gates, they would plummet like a stone.

You're quite right Ginny, but your point also underlines where we have been deficient as a club for decades. For all JF's efforts and the initial £2m, the inward investment into the club over a very long period has not matched the clubs that have taken a massive step forward. Better footballing choices can mitigate declines in football clubs, but those that want to get forward realised that it takes money by either an initial collaboration of lower wealth individuals or a sense of urgency to find that one big investor. Other than that, it's a slow painful death. It's got to be priority number one along with remaining a Football League club. From the outside it seems like we've sleepwalked into the state we are in now, not just the past 15 years but a lot longer than that. If nothing changes dramatically, GTFC fans are going to be feeding off scraps for generations and it's going to be really painful. Waiting for football fortune or Extreme Leisure to pull a rabbit out of the hat doesn't seem to be anywhere near enough. We are on the operating table and the head surgeon seems like he's feeding us a paracetamol tablet rather than reaching for a knife. In the grand scheme of things, conversations about managers, players, games, support etc are hot air compared to the lack of a credible long term plan. The board need to assess their recent efforts and honestly assess whether it's working or not. And if not, seriously change the plan of attack. I just want the club to show some real urgency to try and get us onto a bigger and better path..

Quoted from RonMariner

That is exactly right. All this talk about being small, unfashionable, remote, etc, apply equally if not more so, to Scunny. However they have been out performing us for about 15 years now, have been in the championship a couple of times while we have been in free fall, and are strong contenders for promotion or playoff yet again while we are worried about dropping out of the league again.

Over this period they have had a number of different mangers, as we have, and scores of players have come and gone. But yet they have consistently managed to punch above their weight, just as we used to in the 1980's.  The obvious truth is that they are a well run club, with a board that have consistently made good management choices. They have also created an environment in which decent players will sign and stay, allowing the management to build and improve on a stable platform.  

Consider the decent players we have signed but lost. and I'm not talking about Bogle, who we clearly could not afford to keep, Magnay, Toto, Nolan, Amond, Pearson, John Lewis, Arnold etc, We lost those players to the likes of Hartlepool, Chesterfield and Newport. Hardly glamour  clubs, or giants of the game. It seems to me that as soon as a good player gets a chance to move out, most of them take it.  There is something about the way the club is run that drives players away. In any business staff retention is a telling indicator of the health of the organisation.

The public face that the club presents to the outside world is one of rank amateurism. I have no doubt that its the same behind the scenes too.   There is a saying in management consultancy 'The organisation is the response to the leadership'. Companies and football clubs are the reflection of their controllers.

We just do not give off signals of being an ambitious, go ahead club with a vision. As a player we are not a place to be if you can help it. So the first place that change has to occur is right at the top. Not necessarily a change of personnel, but a change of attitude. If the board can't make the right footballing decisions, then bring in someone who can.  And take their advice.  Make a statement of intent, set out where you want the club to go and the steps being made to get there,

Get the right person in overall charge of football affairs and the rest will follow, right management choices, right player choices, good staff retention, and this will translate to consistent success on the pitch. It's not impossible, smaller clubs than us have done it.        

None of that will happen whilst Fenty retains control. He loves the day to day involvement in it all, so much so that he loves doing the odd jobs at the ground which he genuinely believes is helping. He owns the place, and he can strut around there for however long he wishes whilst not putting in any worthwhile investment or finding any. It  doesn't seem to matter to him how tinpot it all seems or what the future outlook is.

The only solution to off the field problems is a new board, and there will be no new board till he agrees to forgo at least some of the money he feels he is owed. Its a bit chicken and egg, but we must let Fenty start feeling the heat from the fans that we want change.

Quoted from ginnywings

Is Scunthorpe a good example? Isn't it just a club that has a Chairman with tons of cash, that he doesn't mind ploughing into the club? They run at a big loss every season and you can get the better managers and players if you throw enough money at it. Take away their Chairman, and with their gates, they would plummet like a stone.

A good point Ginny and relevant now I believe he chucks in between £250 to £350k a season, but their first rise up the leagues from league 2 to Championship started with Wharton investing £500k. Obviously you need a decent manager too.

Quoted from Marinerz93

A good point Ginny and relevant now I believe he chucks in between £250 to £350k a season, but their first rise up the leagues from league 2 to Championship started with Wharton investing £500k. Obviously you need a decent manager too.

I think you will find Swann is putting in considerably more than the figures stated above!

It's really a question of how you spend the money too. Regardless of how much is pumped in, it is easy to waste it. That's why I think you need a sound football brain in charge as a first step. Then, whatever funds are forthcoming,  they can be utilised to their best effect.  As we have seen, building a huge squad of mediocre players is not the way to go.

Quoted from Cloudy

I think you will find Swann is putting in considerably more than the figures stated above!

Do you know how much as I've stated from what a Scunt told me when I did some work in Scunny.

Quoted from RonMariner

It's really a question of how you spend the money too. Regardless of how much is pumped in, it is easy to waste it. That's why I think you need a sound football brain in charge as a first step. Then, whatever funds are forthcoming,  they can be utilised to their best effect.  As we have seen, building a huge squad of mediocre players is not the way to go.

Totally agree, though even with Scunny at the top end of league 1, we still average more fans per game, so Swann must be chucking in a fair bit. Of course it's important how you spend it, but you have to have it to spend to begin with.