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Time to pull the trigger

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1mickylyons
October 4, 2014, 8:35pm
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Quoted from DavidB


Please re-read my post - that is a misrepresentation.

In answer to the second part of your post I suggest you re-read my other recent posts: they argue for balance and perspective in the light of several 'season's over' type comments.


David im genuinely curious as to why fellow Town fans think we should stick with him at this point and yes ive read your posts but you don't suggest any benefit to keeping him?Do you enjoy the style of football being served at present?If the style doesn't bother you and you are only interested in results are they acceptable?
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Lincoln Mariner 56
October 4, 2014, 9:08pm
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I resent the fact that we keep getting told our wish to see PH replaced is a knee jerknreaction and does not take intonaccount injuries etc. After the play off loss there was a considered debate about his future and whilst many of us wanted change we could accept PH getting another chance to get us up.

However, the over riding caveat was that the standard of entertainment improve. When I have gone home following the 3-2 losses, at home to Macclesfield last year and Lincoln this, I at least enjoyed the matches and would be happy to go next game. But these are a rarity as are quality winning performances, they happen but all too rarely.

After a quarter of the season the entetainment has not improved nor has the consistency of the team who appear to fear playing at BP where we are in reality crying out for something to cheer and a team to once again be proud of.
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GrimRob
October 4, 2014, 9:12pm

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Quoted from grimsby pete


What is wrong with that ?

I think Doig will get us to play better football than Hurst,

Give him the job as c/taker until we get the right man in,

Unless the right man can start on Tuesday morning.


How can you possibly say this? It's a total guess on your part. The problem with making him caretaker is that he could easily get 3-4 wins under his belt, get the job by default, and turn out to be rubbish. Then we'd have to pay both him and PH off and start from scratch.

If we can't get a suitable replacement lined up straight away then the simple answer is to change manager in the summer than it can all be done properly.


'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.  
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson

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1mickylyons
October 4, 2014, 9:17pm
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Quoted from Lincoln Mariner 56
I resent the fact that we keep getting told our wish to see PH replaced is a knee jerknreaction and does not take intonaccount injuries etc. After the play off loss there was a considered debate about his future and whilst many of us wanted change we could accept PH getting another chance to get us up.

However, the over riding caveat was that the standard of entertainment improve. When I have gone home following the 3-2 losses, at home to Macclesfield last year and Lincoln this, I at least enjoyed the matches and would be happy to go next game. But these are a rarity as are quality winning performances, they happen but all too rarely.

After a quarter of the season the entetainment has not improved nor has the consistency of the team who appear to fear playing at BP where we are in reality crying out for something to cheer and a team to once again be proud of.


If Town had managed to launch some attacks or get Southport under sustained pressure there were literally hundreds waiting to get behind them but instead they got 90 mins of nothing and only gave a few murmurs of abuse to Brodie.
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DavidB
October 4, 2014, 9:17pm
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Quoted from 1mickylyons


David im genuinely curious as to why fellow Town fans think we should stick with him at this point and yes ive read your posts but you don't suggest any benefit to keeping him?Do you enjoy the style of football being served at present?If the style doesn't bother you and you are only interested in results are they acceptable?


That's a fairer post!

It's very clear that fans' confidence has fallen in Paul Hurst's ability to achieve the ultimate goal we all want this season (although for some they don't accept that achieving that via anything other than automatic promotion is acceptable). It's also noticeable that there are two groups, those who never had confidence in Hurst, and those whose doubt is more recent. It's very concerning: continued support and belief in the team is vital both financially and for the confidence of the team; and the increasing volume of criticism is likely to influence others' opinions, both fans and the Board.

Of course I'm bothered by the results, performances and style of play! I'm a fan, and have seen both the highs and also much more abject lows than now (not in League position, but in the 'health' of the club and the quality of the squads, managers and performances). If the current situation was really hopeless then I too would be arguing that change was needed; but I've yet to be convinced that it isn't capable of improvement. I'm arguing that it's difficult to judge - see my post on the 'Message to John Fenty' thread for some of the factors that need to be assessed.

Two things I do believe, however:

1) this level of criticism of the manager and players (e.g. some of the posts tonight about  LJL) will only add pressure and undermine confidence further - and that could be a big factor in hindering turning things around; and

2) JF has past form in seemingly being influenced by fans' / message board criticisms of a manager, and the resulting decisions have turned out disastrously: mid-season disruption could just as easily undermine any chance of promotion this season (it doesn't guarantee success and can increase the risk of failure!) That's not to say that changing the manager couldn't work - just that it needs very careful consideration, and not be a decision taken in reaction to message board demands.  
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ackomariner
October 4, 2014, 9:23pm

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Quoted from DavidB


That's a fairer post!

It's very clear that fans' confidence has fallen in Paul Hurst's ability to achieve the ultimate goal we all want this season (although for some they don't accept that achieving that via anything other than automatic promotion is acceptable). It's also noticeable that there are two groups, those who never had confidence in Hurst, and those whose doubt is more recent. It's very concerning: continued support and belief in the team is vital both financially and for the confidence of the team; and the increasing volume of criticism is likely to influence others' opinions, both fans and the Board.

Of course I'm bothered by the results, performances and style of play! I'm a fan, and have seen both the highs and also much more abject lows than now (not in League position, but in the 'health' of the club and the quality of the squads, managers and performances). If the current situation was really hopeless then I too would be arguing that change was needed; but I've yet to be convinced that it isn't capable of improvement. I'm arguing that it's difficult to judge - see my post on the 'Message to John Fenty' thread for some of the factors that need to be assessed.

Two things I do believe, however:

1) this level of criticism of the manager and players (e.g. some of the posts tonight about  LJL) will only add pressure and undermine confidence further - and that could be a big factor in hindering turning things around; and

2) JF has past form in seemingly being influenced by fans' / message board criticisms of a manager, and the resulting decisions have turned out disastrously: mid-season disruption could just as easily undermine any chance of promotion this season (it doesn't guarantee success and can increase the risk of failure!) That's not to say that changing the manager couldn't work - just that it needs very careful consideration, and not be a decision taken in reaction to message board demands.  


David, you've still not answered my previous question.......how many more years should he have?  You cannot disrupt this season because were going nowhere with ph in charge


UTM
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1mickylyons
October 4, 2014, 9:27pm
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Quoted from DavidB


That's a fairer post!

It's very clear that fans' confidence has fallen in Paul Hurst's ability to achieve the ultimate goal we all want this season (although for some they don't accept that achieving that via anything other than automatic promotion is acceptable). It's also noticeable that there are two groups, those who never had confidence in Hurst, and those whose doubt is more recent. It's very concerning: continued support and belief in the team is vital both financially and for the confidence of the team; and the increasing volume of criticism is likely to influence others' opinions, both fans and the Board.

Of course I'm bothered by the results, performances and style of play! I'm a fan, and have seen both the highs and also much more abject lows than now (not in League position, but in the 'health' of the club and the quality of the squads, managers and performances). If the current situation was really hopeless then I too would be arguing that change was needed; but I've yet to be convinced that it isn't capable of improvement. I'm arguing that it's difficult to judge - see my post on the 'Message to John Fenty' thread for some of the factors that need to be assessed.

Two things I do believe, however:

1) this level of criticism of the manager and players (e.g. some of the posts tonight about  LJL) will only add pressure and undermine confidence further - and that could be a big factor in hindering turning things around; and

2) JF has past form in seemingly being influenced by fans' / message board criticisms of a manager, and the resulting decisions have turned out disastrously: mid-season disruption could just as easily undermine any chance of promotion this season (it doesn't guarantee success and can increase the risk of failure!) That's not to say that changing the manager couldn't work - just that it needs very careful consideration, and not be a decision taken in reaction to message board demands.  


Very good post and nice to see someone try and genuinely answer some questions sensibly without resorting to personal insults. I confess to going over the top myself at times and I usually regret it. My gripe with Paul Hurst is his endless negativity before games David I feel he constantly undermines the team by talking up the opposition and none of the great Managers at Town or elsewhere have ever done this it`s a total cop out on his part. What it allows him is in the event Town lose he can say I told you so and so was dangerous for Dartford/Southport blah blah blah.I would think you have read Buckley`s book and in there not once does he say anything about worrying over the opposition imagine Southport turning up at Blundell Park last Tuesday with the papers predicting an avalanche of goals and a wall of noise it would have them on the backfoot instead well we all saw...........
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louth_in_the_south
October 4, 2014, 9:33pm

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Quoted from DavidB


I wasn't, but it's arguably a big presumption to think that I'd have had a different opinion had I been there!
And my original question was about how many of the 'Hurst out' posters had been there (obviously you were, but I suspect many would have been listening to JT like me - I'd find it hard to jump to such a conclusion from the commentary alone).


Thankyou for admitting DB .


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louth_in_the_south
October 4, 2014, 9:35pm

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Steve Burr for me .


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friskneymariner
October 4, 2014, 9:36pm

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DavidB I think you have misunderstood what some of are saying,we are not saying going up by the automatic route is the measure of success,but the fact that Hurst ambition no further than getting to the play offs.He should be firing his team up to be champions ,not being satisfied with a play off place,and that is very much as he comes across.


Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day,teach a man to fish and you give him an excuse for him to escape from the wife and kids for the weekend and drink lots of beer.
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